The Origin of Free Masonry

Think you know where Freemasonry began? We sit down with Grand Sheik Jelani Bey, a 32° York Rite Mason and longtime Moorish organizer, to map the trail most timelines skip: the living overlaps between lodge ritual and Moorish science, the Islamic fingerprints inside shrinedom, and the ancient mystery systems that predate England’s guild claims. This isn’t guesswork from the outside. Jelani speaks as someone who’s walked the Blue House, Royal Arch, Knights Templar, and Shrine, then turned that compass toward community service and institutional integrity.

We dig into the quiet details that change the frame: why fezzes signal different jurisdictions, how compartmentalization protects degrees from confusion, and how lax standards turned sacred symbols into casual merch. Along the way, Jelani shares field work on charters and copyrights, the controversy surrounding “222-141,” and lessons from the Great Seal era that clarify who holds what authority—and why provenance matters. The most provocative thread questions accepted narratives around Prince Hall, Benjamin Banneker, and the attribution of craft: if the teachers wrote the blueprint, why are the students writing the history?

This conversation doubles as a call to raise the bar. If you wear the signs, earn them. If you claim the science, study it. We explore why so many people still don’t recognize Moors in public life and how better gatekeeping, stronger literacy, and visible service can repair the gap between symbol and substance. Whether you’re deep in the lodge, curious about Moorish history, or just skeptical of the official story, you’ll leave with a sharper lens and a longer timeline.

If this moved your thinking, subscribe, share with a friend who loves real history, and leave a review so more people can find the show. Your voice builds the movement.

Chapters

• 0:13 Welcome And Episode Setup
• 0:40 Mission Of NYP And Support
• 1:29 Guest Reintroduction And Scope
• 2:35 Jelani’s Masonic And Moorish Journey
• 9:48 Afrocentric Roots And Early Mentors
• 16:58 Nationalization And Great Seal Work
• 23:42 Degrees, Overlaps, And Ritual Parallels
• 28:57 Shriners Versus Masons Clarified
• 35:08 Standards, Discipline, And Gatekeeping
• 41:35 Policing The Movement And Respect
• 46:38 Why The Public Still Doesn’t Know Moors
• 50:03 Ancient Origins And European Claims
• 56:25 Prince Hall, Banneker, And Authority

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:12

What's going on, everybody, out there? It's Ron Brown, LMT, the People's Fitness Professional, aka Soul Brother Number One, reporting for duty. Today we got the brother Delani in the building to talk about the origin of Freemasonry. Before we go into it, do the knowledge to this commercial. Hold on one second. Oh, where is it? There it is. Oh, hold on, hold on. Do the knowledge.

SPEAKER_00: 0:39

Teach family. Welcome to NYP Talk Show. This is more than a podcast. It's a content platform rooted in truth and culture from the 5% nation, nation of Islam, forest movement, and faith to grow. Our mission is to reclaim our narrative and uplift the African diaspora with real stories and real conversations. Support us through Super Chat during live shows. Donations on Cash App, GoFundTech, Patreon, or BuzzSprout. And by resting our official merch, available on our website and right here on YouTube's merch shelf. Every dollar, every super chat, every hoodie builds the movement. This is NYP Talk Show.

SPEAKER_01: 1:29

Alright, Brother Jelani, Brother Jelani, Bay, welcome back to the NYP Talk Show. It's been a minute. It's been about a year since you've been on this thing, right?

SPEAKER_04: 1:39

I believe so, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:40

Yeah, yeah. So now we we've got you back. You know, it's been a long time. Uh, haven't had you on. Uh, this thing just got super busy. It got busier than what, you know, I expected it to be. Uh, but um, you know, that's a good thing, right? So um, you know, and and you were there from the beginning, from the very beginning. Anytime I ever asked Brother Jelani to come through and and support, Brother Jelani is there. So salute to you for that. Really appreciate you. Now, I want to talk a little bit about your history, but just in case people don't know, we're gonna go briefly into your history and then uh we're gonna go into the origins of Masonry. So if you can give people a little uh um uh whatchall, snippet of your history, take it away.

SPEAKER_04: 2:35

Okay, are we talking about Masonic or Moore's history? We're talking our subject of Masonic, right?

SPEAKER_01: 2:40

We're talking about Masonic, however, I want them to know you know your works, like how long you've been, you know, a Moore putting in work and teaching the people and also dealing with Masonry.

SPEAKER_04: 2:55

All right, well, very well. Um, I started my studies in Moore Science in um the year 2000, but um as far as masonry concerned, that was 1997. Uh I didn't know nothing about my birthright and nationality. A brother at work invited me to the lodge, and I I went in. Uh I got into a situation at the Grand Lodge where some of the brothers with higher degrees interrupted the conversation I was in and pretty much dismissed me. You know, like brother, you know, I don't mean no, you know, it wasn't even really like that. It's like, look, we gotta talk about something, bro. Talk to you later, you know, and that infuriated me, man. A young Moor man, you know what I'm saying? Uh testosterone ego, and um, I vowed that day that I would learn everything there is in Freemasonry so that no door can ever be closed on me again. You know, in other words, it's not excuse me, it's Abrah, come on, let's go talk this business, you know. So um, fast forward to 2000, um, we started. I think Dr. York came out with a book on Noble Drew Ali. And um, we had you know studied that and we was listening to some of the things he was doing, and so from 2000 to about 2002, it was this freelance studying and more science and different Moore's things. Then uh 2000 and actually 2001, um I was very extremely Afrocentric. Um, all into Moliffia Sante. I had met Naeem Akbar and Dr. Ben and uh um Listerveld Middleton had a show where he bring all these people on and we would meet some of them in person. And um metaphysics with Phil Valentine and um uh my man, I forget his name all of a sudden. Not Bobby Hemmett, Bobby Hemmett, Bobby Hammett. Matter of fact, Bobby Hemmett would do shows and we would show up and he would get cockier because we had already made the commitment. Nobody touched this man, go we gonna touch you. We was like his own psych bodyguards when we came to see him, you know. We even we even did security at his house, you know. So uh brother met me in the street. I was in African garb, floppy hat, and everything. My brother walked up to me, he said, brother, you know, that's a that's a that's that's a sharp that that garbage is fire. You know, uh, what's your nationality? Yeah, I told him African American, he said, brother, a man can't be born on two continents at one time, brother. What's your nationality? We went back and forth a little bit, and uh he gave me a name and number and a website to look at. Me and the brothers beat that up, and then uh brothers Ethereus introduced us. Uh, we went up to Charlotte, North Carolina, where we met Tierra L, um, Empress Anur Tierra L of the TRL Associates Indigenous Law Firm and also the Moa Pierre Cherokee Kiddewah Nation. Well, we uh nationalized into the uh the nation and also into the Federation Moore Science Temple. Uh that was under Supreme Grand Sheikh Jerome Graham Bay. And uh Sister Nuel was our sheikist. So her background was kind of limited because although she had been made a sheik, you know, she was a minister before that. So she would slip in the Bible concordance on us, you know. And um shortly after that, uh Elder Todd Shariq Bay came to us and as a tribe and showed us the eight-page affidavit that came out of the Gracefield National Association of Marshall Affairs, and uh shortly after that, while visiting um Philadelphia, we heard about a meeting in Brooklyn, and Kamal A was in charge of that meeting at the time. And uh, you know, we uh next thing you know, I was the emir for South Carolina, and uh ISIS Shiva Il was the emirist for Georgia. Well, we worked with each other for quite a while, and um, I was given various assignments when I got promoted to the East Coast Regional Commander for the Great Seal. Uh, at that time, there was a question about the 222-141 number um and controversy with uh Nakeem Bey and the clock of destiny. Um, so as regional commander, I was assigned to investigate the whole situation with Nake? Huh?

SPEAKER_01: 8:15

With Nakeem Bey?

SPEAKER_04: 8:17

Oh yeah, oh wow, oh yeah, you know, because um all due respect to the brother, you know, um the second principle is true, you know. Uh he was doing some questionable things, and um brother Yusuf Rami Bey, peace and blessing be upon him, had to confront him about it, and it later on got him into trouble with the organization where they were chasing him through Harlem, it got that ugly. Um and then um when he came out with the new copyrights, well, my first assignment was to go to Cleveland, Ohio and talk to the clock of destiny, the original members. And brother Doomas Bay, who had gotten to an altercation with uh Brother Nakeem Bey at Uriel Bay's convention uh up north. Um he told us straight up, he says, I don't have the power to give anybody the clock of destiny. My job was to do the printing, you know, the place for the printer for the to make the books. That was his assignment. Now he could give you a charter, so he gave him a charter for New York, he didn't give him authority over the whole clock, you know. So that was one of my assignments. Then later on, we met Nakeem Bay at uh 126.

SPEAKER_01: 9:47

Nakeem Bay or Hakeem Bay?

SPEAKER_04: 9:49

No, Nakeem Bay, Hakeem Bay was the uh Minister of Education for the Great Seal National Association of Moorish Affairs, and he had been there. Him and um uh brother Ignitus had gone to the uh clock at an earlier time, and they brought back the 10 lessons, you know. And because when we got there, they were looking at us sideways because they was like, hey, look, some of y'all done came here before, and we didn't appreciate what they did, so they put us under scrutiny, man, asking us stuff about the zodiac constitution and and uh the the zodiac wills and the different energies and stuff. Um so um we uh met him at 20 125th Atlantic at the Starbucks.

SPEAKER_01: 10:40

We're talking about Nakim Bay now.

SPEAKER_04: 10:42

We're talking about Nakim Bay now, yeah, and um it was myself, Sharif Aniel Bay, Isis Shiva ill, um Kamal Bay, and um Salah Hudin ill. All right, and we wanted to know bro what you're doing. And he he explained to us that the 222141 had ran out, it had expired. So he put an additional page onto the work and got new copyright numbers because after 50 years, if you don't renew the copyright numbers, any Joe Schmoker come along and get those copyrights and claim them for themselves. So I understood what he did, but on the surface, you know how we are, we'll take a smidgen of what's going on and run with it, you know. So I mean, I was clear personally, so other people didn't have, you know, still had problems with it. However, like I told you, me and Sharif go back, man. We go back a minute, you know what I'm saying? And uh, so uh shortly after that, May 26, 2006. Well, no, 2005, that's when I was hanging with Elder Taj pretty tough, and we would go to um Maryland, Baltimore, Maryland, and we would go to the embryo more science temple in in Baltimore. The leader was uh Supreme Grand Sheikh Ali Michael, um Ali, no Michelle Ali ill, and he took brother Todd and some more Moors and my grand sheik through the adept chamber.

SPEAKER_01: 12:36

Hold on, hold on. Hold on, hold on, hold on, more the more you you came on like just dropping fire. Hold on, I wasn't expecting all this, but yo, you hear the history? Yo, yo, this the history is crazy. All right, go ahead. My bad, my bad.

SPEAKER_04: 12:54

Yeah, so um oh, Matriel Bay was in that group too that went through the adept chambers with the rest of the elders, and my my grand chic, uh Myot Spirit Bay, out of Glenview, um, Texas, um, we had a conference in Greenwood, South Carolina, May 26, 2006. Myself and 11 other sheikhs were then appointed grand sheiks. And before we were able to go down to um Oyatunji village, um he passed away. So after that, um I was conversating with other sheikhs and stuff like that, and they just they just didn't get it. You know, I just wasn't satisfied, my heart wasn't satisfied. I mean, he's some of these casts kind of prominent too. So, in between that time, um I was introduced to uh Grand Sheikh Adarbane of the Moorish Holy Temple of Science.

SPEAKER_01: 14:05

Adar, Adar. Yo, hold on, hold on, hold on. This is a classic already. Now, now, Adar, he's from like the South, right? Like Virginia or something like that. Originally, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 14:17

He was he was uh Virginian, and we we met uh during the days in the Great Seal. One of my responsibilities was to um establish chapters of the Great Seal up and down the east coast. And once I picked someone for a potential emir, I had to report to Sultan Yusuf Rami Bay and discuss their situation. If he saw favorable.

SPEAKER_01: 14:43

You saying a whole bunch of ill names right there. So Rami Bay, he's from Atlanta or something like that. No, Rami Bay, no, no, Yusuf Rami Bay was from Queens.

SPEAKER_04: 14:53

Oh, he's from Queens, but he moved to Atlanta. No, he moved to Sumter, South Carolina.

SPEAKER_01: 14:59

Okay, okay, yes.

SPEAKER_04: 15:00

I knew something like Sumter, South Carolina. So I was living in Greenwood, South Carolina at that time. So um I that's where I would get my marching orders, you know. So um, you know, um a dar was in Virginia and he wanted a charter for the great seal. So I got him his charter, I got his stuff sealed and signed by Yusuf Rami Bay, and in turn, he gave me a charter for more showing. All right, so it was an exchange, it was a swap. Um now back to backtrack because like I said, in 97, that's when I was introduced to masonry. So by the time I proclaimed my nationality, I was already a 32nd degree mason on the York right side. So that meant I went through the um Blue House, the Royal Arch, the Knights Templar, the Shriners, and then my 32nd. You know, that was in 2002, 2003. See what I mean? And so when I came in to more science, the first thing I recognized once they taught us how to greet each other, I said, oh no, that's how they do it in the law for a certain situation. See what I mean? Then when they come in and talk about standing on their square, I'm like, that's what they taught us in the law.

SPEAKER_02: 17:00

Then when I took the resurrector's degree out of Baltimore, um reincarnated prophet jurisdiction, the press hands that were taught, they came straight from the royal arts, man.

SPEAKER_04: 17:21

Straight from the royal arts, and so here I am coming into the movement seeing the similarities of the jurisdiction I had been a part of for many years, and that's why I didn't understand the slander and the folly that was coming from Moore's, you know, because of the similarities, you know. So then um later on 2007, I was appointed um lifetime chief in the United Washington Day Dog De Mondi.

SPEAKER_01: 18:10

That's what uh brother Aleem did, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 18:15

Dr. Leem Ilbe. And um, I was then assigned to the primary council and a chief ambassador for the tribe. And in 2009, I was uh sent to Poverty Point with the Empire Washington, you know, to try to mend things with them as chief ambassador. Um, because they had been misinformed about you know the crown prince. Um hold on, hold on, hold on.

SPEAKER_01: 18:47

Yo, Jelani, what what happened this this evening? What you what you had your weaties the top, man. Well, scroll down, bro. Just kind of scroll down. Nah, nah, keep going, keep going, keep going.

SPEAKER_04: 19:08

Well, I mean, you know, that was um uh Dr. Lean, even before you know, he got heavy into the temple, and people deny that to this day, but brother Darbey made him Grand Sheik over temple number two in North Carolina, and I was over temple number three in South Carolina, you know, and Dr. Aline on his website, he had an in-depth history on Moore's Moore's science, you know, uh the early days of Prophet Noble Draw Lee before he started the mission in 1913, you know, and things of that nature. When I seen that in 1910, he was a member of the free and accepted ancient York Masons, that blew my mind.

SPEAKER_01: 20:08

Okay, so this is the issue with that, right? I see a lot of Moore saying that there's no record of him being a part of any lodge beforehand or after.

SPEAKER_04: 20:23

Well, several authors um have um laid testament to him being a member of the lodge, and the mere fact that Moors do a lot of things they do in the lodge, they don't know it because nobody told them that's what they was doing. You see what I mean? That's just like somebody teaching me um supreme mathematics and not knowing that it's an in it's indigenous to the five percent nation of Islam, right? You see what I mean? I wouldn't know until a God body approached me. It's like, yo, you know, you be God, you know what I'm saying, or something like that. You know, I'm I've never been in, I never had nothing like this, so I'm not even gonna play with you tough. I get it, I get it. You feel me? You know, and and and so 19 that's three years difference, 1910 to 1913. So three years before he even started the old Canaanite temple. Heck, he was trying to doggone um create a church. I forget the name of it. You see what I mean? But like I said, the mere fact that there are distinct things that I recognized when I came into the movement, and then when I found that out, I said, oh Eureka, that's why the Moors are doing this. That's why the Moors were saying this.

SPEAKER_01: 22:07

Okay, so to clarify, right? To be, I just want to make sure I'm correct here. So so I haven't gone as deep into the lodge as as you have. And a lot of Moors, I think personally, this is my what I believe, right? A lot of Moors who've never been into the in the lodge will refute the fact that the prophet has been in the lodge without even knowing anything about the lodge, right? So they can't even compare contrast to make, you know, to examine to see if there's some similarities. So they like just deny the they just deny that without any with without without knowing, you know what I'm saying? Without without without going into the lodge based on, I guess, whatever um knowledge they have themselves, whatever research they have. Some more just completely deny it.

SPEAKER_04: 23:05

You know, but there is documented information on that fact, but you can't, that's just like me doggone. That's just like me knowing your history when you was a yellow belt, you know, then doubting that you're a fourth degree. See what I mean? This is 1910. I mean, obviously the man was a he was a scholar searching for knowledge, you know. Uh Suleiman Muhammad, one of the people he co-founded the old Canaanite temple with, he's the brother that came over from the east and told everybody they doggone temples was whack. I'm talking about shriner's temples.

SPEAKER_02: 23:59

So everybody, he's the only legitimate cat that could spread shrinodim.

SPEAKER_04: 24:08

And let me add shriner, the shrinodim and freemasonry, two different jurisdictions.

SPEAKER_01: 24:17

Yes, I learned that uh last year.

SPEAKER_04: 24:22

Two different jurisdictions.

SPEAKER_01: 24:23

Can you explain?

SPEAKER_04: 24:24

Masons don't wear fezes, shriners do. See what I mean? Masons don't wear fez. And I'm talking about unconscious Asiatics. See what I mean? Now there are there are some degrees where a black fez can't be part of the uniform. See what I mean, and that also brings about the part about the marked fez. The prophet said, Don't mark your fez. Correct, as a Moorish American, as a Mason in the Knights Templar, some of their commandries wear pheasants, black feasors, and they wear black feasors because internationally the black fez is recognized as law enforcement, judgment. Internationally, they give you a receipt. Remember the first mummy? The movie The Mummy, yeah. Remember when this the lady went into the jail to pick up the dude? Okay, remember that part? I don't uh vaguely every one of the COs in that jail had on a black face. I gotta go back to that, yeah. See, every last one of them had on a black face internationally. It is recognized as a uh uh a headdress of of law and authority, the same reason in the kung fu movies you see the headdresses that resemble pheasants, it's black, they're law enforcement, you know what I'm saying? Five deadly venoms. The lizard was a cop, lizard and the scorpion were cops, and they wore black head headdresses, see so.

SPEAKER_02: 26:36

What I'm doing is taking it out of the scope of the temple and taking it internationally where it's called a tardouge instead of a fair. So stop talking about the shriners because the shriners is not a religious society, they're not a part of our organization.

SPEAKER_01: 27:08

Okay, so now this is something that I never really understood. So, Masons and Shriners, what makes them different?

SPEAKER_04: 27:18

The Shriners is an auxiliary organization that supports Freemasonry, in other words, in ancient York right, I have to finish my education as a Mason before I can go through what I have to go through to be a shrine. See, and it was important for me because I'm glad I did it when I did, because once I got in, trust me, it's a Morris jurisdiction, bro. Ain't nothing European about what they doing. That's when I came to the realization that the European is copying us, emulating us, but we can't copy us because we are who we are. It's not until you get inside the door and they start identifying certain people that as a Muslim you go, whoa, did they say that? Did they say this? You know, and there's no European stuff in it, straight up Islam, bro.

SPEAKER_02: 28:38

Really?

SPEAKER_04: 28:41

Factually, see what I mean? To even get in the door, you talking about Islamic history without saying too much. You feel me?

SPEAKER_01: 28:54

Right, right. So now, uh, this brother says um uh you have to be a master mason to become a shriner.

SPEAKER_04: 29:03

Yes, and a lot of times what has to happen is is that just because you have to be a master mason to be a shriner, in other words, I know the Asiatic Masons do it a lot. European Masons, hey, all they gotta do is flip a few dollars and boom, they shriners, and that's all they do is shriners.

SPEAKER_02: 29:29

You have some Europeans that they couldn't go toe-to-toe with you as a blue house mason because they went straight into the shrine, which is another jurisdiction.

SPEAKER_04: 29:41

But in the Asiatic Masonic um uh I'll say guild, they require you to learn what you have to learn. In other words, you have to be not just a Mason, but an accomplished Mason. You gotta learn all your lessons, you know, so that if somebody comes up on you going right back to your jurisdiction, brother, what's the day's mathematics? And you ain't got nothing to say to them. That's a universal beatdown, correct?

SPEAKER_01: 30:23

Nowadays it's not like that, though. No, nah, nah. They don't, they don't, they don't, it's like back in the days. I would say, like in the 90s, if you didn't know your math, yeah, you you you you have a problem, you have a serious problem, you know what I mean. But now it's it's it's it's a little bit more uh mellowed out. Well, you know what I'm saying, a lot more mellowed out.

SPEAKER_04: 30:45

Well, same thing with masonry, brother. Because you would uh man, it was his brother. I ain't gonna say his name, get on my nerve. He would actually like peep out, like he see two masons greet each other, and he go around the corner and peep and see what he could doggone pick up, and then go to another Mason and try it out. Not a day in the lodge, right? And um, he wear the belt buckles and the necklaces and everything, you know, and he didn't even know how to protect it, but he could sugarmount through it, so it would make me mad in my early days. Man, I'm really, really gung-ho. If I make I'm committed to it, I'm committed to it. I'm a soldier about it, and um, he was playing around me, man. I said, brother, you know, you're playing a very dangerous game. Back then, it was a dangerous game. So I introduced him to this older brother with a finger missing, and asked him or to asked him to tell this brother what happened to his finger. He put his daddy's ring on and ran into somebody, and they took that ring. So just to mirror what you just said, back in the day, when I first came into the order, it was no joke. You have to know what you know.

SPEAKER_01: 32:25

Damn, why was it like that back in the days, man? Discipline. Like back in the days, it was no joke, man. I was I was I think I was telling somebody a while back uh when I first got into the five, when I first came, became a five percenter, I was so peace of been, I was so uh uh uh uh uh excited about this new this new information for me, you know what I mean? Like it all came to me. I said, oh, there's no mystery God, oh I'm the guy. Oh, and I I got a tattoo. This is the tattoo I got when I was a kid, right? I got that tattoo. I'm on a train, I'm walking on a train. I'm so proud to have this universal flag on my arm. And this guy came up to me, yo, you know what you got on your arm? Yo, he wasn't playing. What's not playing, yo? And and and the brother that I was with who who basically introduced me to the five percent nation, he had to like, yo, hold on, I got this. Like, yo, he's new, like it was for you. Yeah, it was no joke in those days, bro. And and when you came up, yeah, you we came up around it. Oh, you got into masonry in 97. I got into the five percent nation at 95, 96 around that time. So it's around that them 90s, bro. Yo, they were serious once they realized who they were, they were serious about that, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 34:00

You know, and understand it was a universal conspiracy to water down our fire, even in the martial arts tip, the Nisei Goju boys, the Tom Dojo's of Brooklyn, you know, um Grandmaster McGee. I'm a way back and saying I go back to '71. So we would actually have karate wars.

SPEAKER_01: 34:35

Nah, for real. I yo, even when I was coming up dojo against dojo and shit, like, wow, you bringing it back. Yo, that was serious.

SPEAKER_04: 34:46

Wow, we were because we were actually once we found out that we were something special, yeah, we were serious about that and we stood on that. You see what I mean? Yeah, but then somebody came in there and said, No, well, you know, we're not we we we're not gonna, we're not gonna brother, we ain't gonna haze, you know, like we did. We're gonna take it easy, brother. You know, but then guess what happens? It got watered down, it got watered down, they played with the science. Like, okay, me and you both know as you teaching the the the youth coming up in martial arts, there's two reasons to put them on their knuckles.

SPEAKER_02: 35:32

On the surface, they believe they're being punished.

SPEAKER_04: 35:36

That's conditioning, that's conditioning, conditioning the wrist, strengthening the wrist, developing pads on those first two knuckles so they become weapons, right? But you can't tell that kid that when you say, Down, give me 20. It it you know, but guess what? A wise teacher will talk to him while he's doing his push-ups. Why? So he associates the pain with the lesson and never forget it.

SPEAKER_01: 36:11

Yo, Jelani came out swinging today. He ate his Wheaties, he's ready. So now we got a awareness daily in the building. Awareness daily 360. Awareness daily has been rocking with NYP for a long time, just haven't seen you. Thank you for the five dollars, brother. Uh, is Freemasonry an open system in the shrine an application? That's a good question. If you if you freemason an operating system, like yeah, operating system, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 36:48

They're two different sets, they're two different systems. You know, what caught me what taught me to compartmentalize was Freemasonry. Um, if I'm in a conversation with a blue house mason, I'm not gonna talk to them about royal arms information, I'm not gonna talk to them about nice Templar information, I'm not gonna talk to them about 30-second information until they show and prove they're at that level. It's the same thing with the shrine, see, because like we said about watering down, they don't water down the shrine, you know, they let a lot of things go. The old school don't they don't appreciate it, you know. I've seen a lot of things that have been omitted that you just don't see done, and you wonder why.

SPEAKER_02: 37:49

That's the integral part of being a part of something that's like getting a rank, getting a black belt, and you know, all your basics is raggedy, and they still gave you the black belt because you gave them some loot, real black belts ain't feeling that it's the same difference, right?

SPEAKER_04: 38:19

You know, I think that the dog on Morse divine and national movement will be more integral if you see a brother with a Fez on or turban on, especially a Fez, and you go, um Islam, who made you and they don't have an answer, T 14 more, and they don't have an answer.

SPEAKER_02: 38:48

Who the hell what jurisdiction you come from, man?

SPEAKER_04: 38:54

Even if you go to the other jurisdictions, if a sister was impregnated in May, when would her baby to be delivered? Now you clock a destiny, and they don't have an answer. So what you do? Order that damn oh, especially go, well, what's that, Mo?

SPEAKER_02: 39:13

Oh, yeah, I got this hat, man. I seen it. You got this hat, see? So instead of letting that go and talking about him, smack that thing off his head.

SPEAKER_04: 39:25

You can't do that now, yeah. But see, that's why they don't have no respect for it. Give you an example, and let me know what where our time is at because I want to go back to the ancient and to the what the Europeans are doing to us, all right.

SPEAKER_02: 39:41

Um, I was doing a lecture in Charlotte, North Carolina, and I asked the people in the audience what do y'all know about more science?

SPEAKER_04: 39:59

They started telling me about chargebacks, UCC ones, and they had a grand chic in the front, and I went through the one-on-ones, the first 10 questions in the one-on-one, and the grand chic didn't answer not one of them. Then per use of Rami Bay, he told me what the seven bay, the seven-page affidavit supposed to be, and I told the audience, and the buffoon had been playing when it was sitting in the audience, he charging them a thousand dollars a piece for seven pieces of paper pieces of paper when the great seal said 360 for regular situations and 180 for um single women with children. So the security, he tried to sneak out. The security commenced with the universal took all this stuff and everything. He went and got the police.

SPEAKER_02: 41:07

All right, police came, it was three of them.

SPEAKER_04: 41:13

I came out there, and they was like, Do we keep his stuff? No, man, he made all that garbage up, man. Let him grab that and slap that in the bag and let him take it with him. So the police, what's going on here? I said, never mind, this is a Morris affair. We got this under control. They stepped backwards, turned around like they supposed to turn around, and they left. And that scary dude ran behind them. He knew better than to stay there after police left. See, that's the type of respect between our two jurisdictions supposed to be. You know, uh oh, whoever this dude is, he's an authority. You know, he has this situation under control. None of our business. That's the way it's supposed to be. See what I mean? I was at a function and a grand sheet. Uh was getting some some um some smoke from another on another mall, and he threatened to go call the police. And I stepped in, I said, Moore, where you muffed here? What you mean? Oh no, well, brother Proper said we must obey the laws of the land and the society in which you live. Brother, I ain't never seen Pookie or Ray Ray say Islam. See what I mean? Unless it's Chicago in El Rukin demonstration, something like that. You know what I'm saying? But in other words, the average person on the street don't talk like a Moorish American, right? See, so and that's our main problem. We amalgamating, you know. I mean, it really, really irks me, and then we're gonna go to this ancient thing that in 2025 the average Asiatic outside of the conscious community don't know what a more is don't know more is what's that? Huh? After a hundred years or some change, what's that? That goes back to we was talking about water down. Temple meeting is over with. Take your feathers off, put them in your hat box, and go up on the road, highways and byways looking like Pookie and Ray Ray.

SPEAKER_01: 43:51

That's the problem. That's the problem. Hold on, let me acknowledge. Uh thanks, uh Ben A B Delight for the five dollars. I really appreciate you, brother. Thank you, thank you. Now, um, now we have about 15 minutes. I want you know, of course, you you're welcome to come up again and again and again. Um, because you know, you're coming with the heat. Now, I I I now I know the subject that you you know to keep to keep with you, you know what I mean. So now let's let's um go into what you said you said you were gonna go back to the Europeans and how they dealing with the with uh Freemasonry.

SPEAKER_04: 44:34

Well, it goes it goes back to that that um that old saying about the red ant and the black ant that you put into the jar, and they live in harmony, no smoke, until somebody from the outside shakes that jar up and gives the red ant and the black ant the illusion that the other one is trying to jump on them.

SPEAKER_02: 44:58

Now you have war.

SPEAKER_04: 45:02

So 4000 BC Asiatics were in the mystery systems and initiations and dealing with the several liberal arts and the sciences, see what I mean, some of the same things you deal with in Freemasonry to this very day.

SPEAKER_02: 45:31

So now in 450 AD, this is when the Moors came in to Europe during their Renaissance.

SPEAKER_04: 45:50

They call it Renaissance, so that's what we were teaching them. See, that was also around the year of the Black Plague because their hygiene was messed up, they wasn't bathing, they you know, they was living in the same area with the animals. Uh, that movie 13th Warrior shows you that the kings were living in barns.

SPEAKER_02: 46:15

See what I mean?

SPEAKER_04: 46:17

So now the United Grand Lodge of England says what gives them the um permission to start their own national Grand Lodge is because they can trace themselves back to 1400 AD. Did you hear me, brother?

SPEAKER_01: 46:45

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 46:46

So I just told you 4000 BC. We've been stepping off on the left and standing on our square. He went back to the years where they was doggone doing the the uh mason gills, and they were being taught how to build bricks, taught by us on how to build bricks. See, but they claim that's their that's their um that's their authority to make their own United Grand Lodge or their national grand lodge.

SPEAKER_02: 47:28

But then right out of doggone Mackie's law dictionary, it says that the word clandestine means one who is covert or secretive, they turned that word into a disrespectful term and taught it to us. All right, let me pause there for a second because in 1747. I might have that wrong. 1487?

SPEAKER_04: 48:18

1787, some early and early, what's the name? Um, a man named John T.

SPEAKER_02: 48:25

Hilton. We're gonna go back to Prince Hall. All right, Prince Hall was a pseudonym, it was a nickname.

SPEAKER_04: 48:37

All right, his real name per the clock of destiny was Ben Bey Emanuel Mu Ali. Now let's search for the receipt on that. The character Benjamin Banneker is famous for creating the almanac. In order to create an almanac, you have you must have the science of astronomy, mathematics, culture. You couldn't learn that from Mr. Gilmore on the plantation, he had just got out of slavery himself. The first slave owners in this country were us, and they were the slaves, especially the Irish, they wouldn't even die.

SPEAKER_02: 49:40

They just come and get them. They were white and they were slaves.

SPEAKER_01: 49:48

See, okay, real quick before before we go, before we go on, I just gotta acknowledge uh uh Nicholas Bay, thank you for the five dollars Islam NYP family and brother Jelani, thank you for bringing the light.

SPEAKER_04: 50:04

Islam is gratitude, brother.

SPEAKER_02: 50:06

My you know, so um 1770, and that's what cracks me up because we got there in 750 AD.

SPEAKER_04: 50:22

And we went through some things and like 1492 and all that after 1492, we were kicked out of England, or we were gradually pushed out of England, but we had already taught them civilize them. So how is it that you created masonry in 1717 when we were there hundreds, if not a thousand years before 1717? You got rid of us, and then you usurp what we taught you. Now you're writing in the history books that you created it, then you're gonna go back to the 1492, I mean um 1400s, and say you validated by the old guilds, not telling us that your teachers were Moors. Then you tell the people that Prince Hall was the son of a French military dude and the mother of a slave. Well, Christian Black Cole says that the fate of the mother is the fate of the child, so that would make Prince Hall a slave. Masons can't be slaves. See now we're talking about the contradictions, but as Ben Bay Emmanuel Muali, this brother made a clock out of wood that was accurate to the minute, he had skills that no European could give him. So from the African Lodge number one to African Lodge 459, to the last Grandmaster of African Lodge 459 and the first Grandmaster of the Free and Accepted Ancient York Masons, brother John T. Hilton, look him up. He's a bad brother 1847. He was a bad brother. We all masons, right? They said, heck no ninja.

SPEAKER_02: 52:58

He said, okay, and he created a national Grand Lodge.

SPEAKER_04: 53:05

They did it, they did it, so he did him and three other lodges, three other Grand Lodges because we were practicing masonry before that. They came together and they formed a national grand lodge. Now you know the nature of us. Somebody want to be the HNIC that probably don't need to be, and they broke off, they left the national compact, and they actually existed in the wilderness until 1980 something. And they begged the United Grand Lodge, and they finally got a charter from them in the 1980s.

SPEAKER_01: 54:16

Right, there we go. Now you brought it home, exactly.

SPEAKER_02: 54:23

Right, right, right, yo.

SPEAKER_01: 54:27

I always wondered that right there. I always wondered that.

SPEAKER_04: 54:33

Thanks for clarifying, and we've been fulfilling among each other ever since, right? Exactly. Prince Hall origin versus Prince Hall affiliated, even though the obvious is there, origin mean the original, affiliated means related to.

SPEAKER_01: 55:01

Um man, we only have five minutes before, yeah. The real cush day is in the building.

SPEAKER_04: 55:10

Man, tell that brother, listen, man. I've been dying to dialogue with that cat. You know, whatever he's been saying, don't believe it, brother. Dialogue with me, man. Let's build. Yeah, I love his stuff. Let him know that. I love his demonstration.

SPEAKER_01: 55:28

He's he's watching, he's watching.

SPEAKER_04: 55:30

Um man, I appreciate your demonstration, brother.

SPEAKER_01: 55:33

Yeah, he's been on the show. I think one time he was supposed to come back on um at some point, but I don't know. We just never never connected, but we'll we'll we'll make that happen, man. This is this is the platform for the Moors, the Five Percenters, everybody, Masons, everybody, all Asiatics. This is the platform for the family. This is a family podcast. That's wrong. That's right, brother. It's a family podcast. It's always been a family podcast from the beginning, you know what I'm saying? And it'll stay that way. So anybody's welcome to come up here as long as just as long as you got your facts right. And even if you even if even if you're not right and exact, we're all human, you know what I mean? And somebody in the chat will check you on it. Somebody on the chat will check you on it for sure. You know what I'm saying? But uh on that note, we only have four minutes. Let's let's let's conclude now. The brother Jelani is with the fam. He always been with the fam. He will be back up here. He came with the heat. He came with the heat today. You gotta rewind this whole podcast right here, because in the in the beginning, he started talking about some real history. Rewind the podcast from the very beginning. He has the history, rewind that behind the door, brother. Exactly. Now, um, now on that note, um uh wow, I got like this knot on my head right here. Anyway, um, so we uh Islam, Islam, Islam, everybody. Now, um hold on. Where can we reach out to you at Jelani Bay? Jelani Bay, give them all your social media so they can reach out to you at inbox you and all that stuff.

SPEAKER_04: 57:13

All right, um, Jelani Kalfani Bay on Facebook, um National Grand Sheet, Jelani Bay on uh Instagram, um, and Jelani Kalfani Bay on um uh what's that joint with the little flag?

SPEAKER_01: 57:35

Uh joint with the little flag is not not you're not talking about Instagram.

SPEAKER_04: 57:40

No, no, um what's the name? Um TikTok.

SPEAKER_01: 57:46

Okay, yeah, TikTok. TikTok. So that's his social medias. He'll be back up, and just in case you you you forgot, he'll be back up again. Thank you, brother Jelani Bay, for coming out this evening. I really appreciate you, brother Jelani Bay. Yo, who is that? That's Terrain Hicks is in the building. Terrain Hicks is in the building. You don't remember Terrain Hicks, Jelani, but but yeah, we gotta talk about that. Uh uh would love, hold on, would love to build Kush. Um plug my phone. Uh Ben, uh hold on, hold on. Kush, Kush, Kush, if you're still in the building, where's Kush at? Uh Kush, if you still got the brother of uh A B the Light would love to build with Kush, uh uh Ben Yameen Bay on Facebook, if you will, brother. Uh so thank you.

SPEAKER_03: 58:45

Uh so who was the dog eat?

SPEAKER_01: 58:52

Oh, we got the trolls in the building again. We love it. We love the trolley trolls. You guys, man. I think I know where this is coming from. If I'm wrong, and this is just a regular troll, pardon me, but you're about to get banned because I think I know who you are, and you cats are suckers straight up. You act like scorn women, stalker type of cats. You guys are pitiful, despicable, and I and I spoke on you to a couple people. So your guys are clowns. If I think this is who if this is who I think it is, you do the clowns. If you're a regular troll, sorry, I would like for you to be here, but you will be banned from now on because I think you're a clown, somebody who I think is a clown. Anyway, we're out of here. Peace to everybody on the chat. Really appreciate you. Uh, are you going to have him answer my question, beloved brother? Right now, I don't see your question, and we are out of here. We are out of time. Come back again the next time he is up here. Inbox me. Yeah, inbox, inbox it, brother. Peace to everybody on the chat, and we are out of here.

SPEAKER_00: 1:00:15

Peace! Peace, family. Welcome to NYP Talk Show. This is more than a podcast. It's a conscious platform rooted in truth and culture. From the 5% nation, nation of Islam, Moorish movement, and Masonry. Our mission is to reclaim our narrative and uplift the African diaspora with real stories and real conversations. Support us through Super Chats during live shows, donations on Cash App, GoFundMe, Patreon, or Buzz Sprout. And by repping our official merch, available on our website and right here on YouTube's merch shelf. Every dollar, every super chat, every hoodie builds the movement. This is NYP Talk Show.