Rumor control: Moorish Lineage , Sovereignty, Court Cases and Pseudo History

History sounds different when you hear it from people who can name the teachers, show the paperwork, and walk you through the venues where outcomes actually change. We sit down with Dr. Alim El Bey and Chief Jelani Bey to break open Moorish identity, Washita lineage, and the legal frameworks that so often get flattened into memes or headlines. No shortcuts here—just credentials, case experience, and a willingness to trace names, treaties, and terms back to the records that anchor them.

We start by challenging the “pseudo” tag with decades of study in sociology, history, legal studies, metaphysics, and initiatory work. Then we map the early 2000s organizing that shaped the movement’s regional structure, connecting the Moorish Science Temple of America and Washita matriarchal lines. Cherokee and Ani Yunwiya ties enter through surnames and historical rolls, not costume or stereotype, pushing us to look past commercial images of Native identity. This is where language matters: Black, Negro, Indian, indigenous, Moor—each carries etymology, legal weight, and consequences for standing and recognition.

The legal section is a masterclass on venue and process. Municipal courts aren’t built to hear constitutional arguments, and many high-profile losses trace back to that mismatch. The conversation digs into contracts, estate trusts, administrative versus common law, and how dismissals, seals, and erasures operate as quiet wins that rarely hit the internet. Sovereignty is reframed away from “sovereign citizen” into nationality, treaty history, and jurisdiction—invoking the Treaty of Peace and Friendship and the influence of indigenous confederacies on constitutional design.

We also explore Washita land claims, Spanish and French grants, and the contested narrative of the Louisiana Purchase, emphasizing Creole lineages and Haitian French ties. Finally, we open the door to a future deep dive on Black nobility across Europe—Habsburgs, Stewarts, and the Moorish presence etched into statues, pharmacies, and surnames. If you care about identity, land, and law—and how they collide in real courtrooms and communities—this conversation offers a demanding, detailed path forward.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Setting The Stage And Allegations
• 2:28 Credentials, “Pseudo” Claims, And Masonry
• 5:57 Early 2000s Organizing And Roles
• 10:46 Moorish Lineage And Washita Foundations
• 16:45 Cherokee Identity And Indigenous Moors
• 20:26 Names, Law, And Nationality
• 24:16 Sovereignty, Treaties, And Jurisdiction
• 31:12 Courts, Procedure, And Case Outcomes
• 38:17 Contracts, Travel, And Enforcement
• 42:35 Washita Land Claims And Creole Ties
• 48:00 Black Nobility And European Lineages
• 54:30 Closing Invites, Events, And Support

Transcript

SPEAKER_02: 0:09

All right, what's going on everybody up there? It's Ron Brown, LMT, the People's Fitness Professional, aka Soul Brother Number One Reporting for Duty. I'm Soul Brother Number Two when Shake L from Syracuse is on. He's no, I'm I'm so brother number three when Shake L is on, because Soul Brother number one is Bobby Brown is James Brown. And then he's so brother number two. And then I'm so brother number three when Shake L is on. Peace to Shake L denim L. Um, thank you, brothers, for coming on this evening. I really appreciate you. I would like to have this bill because uh I've known Overleem for years and I've known Jelani for years, and I haven't heard anything about them until recently. Like, you know, like bad comments and stuff like that. People having bad things to say about you know what they teach until recently, like two years ago. So um, you know, I've been seeing it, and uh, I would like to address some of this, some of the stuff, um, so things can be clarified or what have you. I think the Moors in particular and the factions, the many factions, quote unquote, are misunderstood because people uh just write this off as like babble, right? Because it doesn't fit their own perspective on who we are, etc. Right, because you know, some people just want to be black, which is fine. Some people want to just call themselves African, African Americans. That's fine. You do what you want to do, however, that doesn't um uh invalidate Moorish science or the Moorish diaspora and and and and and our perspective, right? So um, you know, first off, I want to start off with uh Dr. Aline Bey, L Bay, and uh, you know, you were saying some things about pseudo and you know, how can I be pseudo because I did this and this in your your accolade act me accolades and your accomplishments, things like that. So I want you to run down you know your education and things of that nature.

SPEAKER_03: 2:28

Right, I've been doing this work for 35 years, over 35 years, since I was 19 years old. I've been um up on the information as far as the Moorish Holy Temple Science of the World or the Moorish Science Temple of America, in particular from out of Lumberton, North Carolina. Um and the brothers in which that I met with back in '89, when I first got into the Moore Science Temple of America, they was under the I guess you can say the Tuklich or the teachings of um Charles Kirkman Bay. Um, so that's how I came into the information. Um and then um Lavelle um back in 992000, um told me to get in contact with Sister Washington, and I did. And I got my card in which that my name was um at that time was Baru L B-U-R-U-L Baru L, which means the light of God. Um and then, of course, um what I was telling you, and what I was saying is that we use we utilize the word pseudo, but um, someone who's pseudo don't have degrees, they don't have degrees. Um, for example, I have several degrees. I have a um bachelor's of art degree in sociology, a bachelor's of art degree in history, um, an MLS, which is a master's in legal studies, which is in law, as well as also a PhD in metaphysics. Um, so that's why um people refer to me as Dr. Alem Albe. Now, to have those accomplishments isn't something to be taken lightly, that is something in which that you have to dedicate your life to. And as well as also me being a master herbalist, I have a brick and mortar business store, um, which these individuals who are saying that is somebody is pseudo, they don't have themselves. Like I said, they don't have any degree work in any shape, form, or fashion. They don't have it uh when it comes to Freemasonry, when it comes to school or education. So they are the ones who are pseudo. The fact is trying to cost one who is actually going through the various degrees, both through masonry as well as also in education, you know, to refer to someone as pseudo is is beyond me. That's um as uh Chief Jelani always say is either through ignorance or conspiracy. And we just say we'll chalk this one up to be ignorance.

SPEAKER_02: 5:53

Gotcha, gotcha. So now how long you brothers known each other?

SPEAKER_03: 5:57

We know each other since early 2000s, so actually over 20 years now.

SPEAKER_02: 6:05

Okay, okay. So what let's say like 2006, 7, or earlier than that?

SPEAKER_03: 6:11

2000 2005. Oh, so 20, so 21 years now, going on 21 years.

SPEAKER_02: 6:20

That that 2005 to 200 what nine, 10, Jelani was moving and shaking.

SPEAKER_03: 6:29

Well, we was we was both um in the Great Sealed National Association of Marsh Affairs. Okay, can you one more time? One more time. He was my regional commander. Okay, of the great he was the southern, he was the southern, he was the southern um regional commander, and I was based in North Carolina. I was an emir, but he was um the emir over the um whole region, the southern region.

SPEAKER_02: 7:08

Okay, okay. All right now, Jelani. Um, we I think we broke down your history as far as your education and things like that, right? The Navy, you came up, you got into Masonry first. That was in '94, I believe, right? 97, 97, 97, and then in the early 2000s, that's when you started building with the Great Seals.

SPEAKER_01: 7:33

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_02: 7:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 7:36

I came into the movement under John Givens Ill, under the Federation Moral Science Temple of America. The Supreme Grand Sheikh was Jerome Grand Bay, and my sheikis was a newer Tierra L. We met the Great Seal, they came to our tribe and taught us about the eight, uh, the seven-page affidavits that man God had created, and that was Tom Sharik Bay came down there and talked to us, and um, that's when we started using that paperwork to um uh convert brothers and sisters into the tribe and into the movement, into the uh more science temple. Um I started doing some more work with the Great Seal, and I met with Kamal Bain in um Brooklyn, New York, and um I'm very crazy because in the last segment I broke it down, and um he appointed me and Isis Shiva Hill, who was also a Kittawa member, her to Georgia, me to South Carolina. Then uh later on I was promoted to regional commander, eventually the East Coast regional commander. So I was working north and south. And um, then um I uh uh got in with Ali Ill with the um Embryo Morris Science Temple. And um I met my grandfather there, Maya Spirit Bay, and um he ordained me as grand chief divine minister at a ceremony in 2006 uh in Greenwood, South Carolina at Piedmont Tech, where all of the prominent Moorish Americans were there, Elizabeth Bay, Hakim Bay, um Hakim Bay, um Jerome Grand Bay, CM Bay, you know, uh Africa Bambana and the Zulu Nation and the Zulu Nation. Um I'm trying to think uh there were some other brothers there too, as well. Other brothers there too as well. I mean, there's about 250 people there all together, and they ordained me and 11 other people Grand Chief Divine Minister. You know, um later on that year, my crown prince, Dr. Lim, is my crown prince, and Hate Washita Yeah, he brought me into the Washita family, you know, and I became one of his lifetime chiefs, and then I was also assigned to do some ambassador work down in Poverty Point uh with the Empire Washita, you know, and um he also blessed me with giving me my own tribe, the Alatowa Sulla Gee. And uh so that makes me a crown prince under the Alatowa Sala Gee, subnation of the United Washtah Dug Demon.

SPEAKER_02: 10:57

Okay, so let's talk about this, right? The uh the Washington, the Washita, how do you how do you say it?

SPEAKER_03: 11:06

Washitau D. Dug Demonia.

SPEAKER_02: 11:08

Washita D. Dug Demonia. Now, when when did this start? How did this come about and break down that that history?

SPEAKER_03: 11:20

You want me to go? Unicorn Prince, bro. I ain't about to break that out. All right. Um, well, it depends on where you want me to start at. I can start with the Empress um over 40 years of research. And with her 40 years of research, there's documentations in which that she came across and which that clarified a lot of things concerning the land issues and her family lineage. Um, finding out that the imperial bloodline ran through the Washitons and through the Turners, who actually were the Washitaur and the Tournica, which are so-called Native American tribes. Um, but they changed the names to conceal the truth of who the people are. This is the reason why that you find, if any, Europeans are named Washington. Okay. Um, George Washington was not even a Washington, his name was Wessington, not Washington. So that actually was a form of mockery, in a sense, um, which that is another that is another story. Now, the Empress, based on her research, she found out that not only there's 68,883 acres of land um in Louisiana, which from the middle portion up to the upper portion of Louisiana was actually owned by the families. Um find out that the whole Louisiana purchase never was purchased, and that payment was never rendered to Napoleon by Thomas Jefferson. And Thomas Jefferson gave his sentiments at the time concerning the situation, and that the only thing on which that actually was purchased for the$15 million in gold, which never was fully rendered, I might add, and because it was never fully rendered, services cannot be cannot be given. Um, in fact, it was only, I think it was only about maybe$11,750,000 in gold. The other$3,025,000 in gold sunk off the coast of Florida, between Cuba and Florida. Um, so like I said, um full payment was never rendered. So therefore, the land automatically turns back over to the heirs. And so in 1848, based on the case called the heirs of Turner versus the United States, or the heirs of Tournica versus the United States, the heirs of Turner or Tournica won the case um against the United States, um, showing and proving that there were indigenous people here and that these indigenous people looked like you and I, and they was not slaves in any shape, form, or fashion because slaves um could not sue. This was the whole thing about the Drescott case decision, which was based on nationality. He had none. While this was done by Judge Tanney in 1856, 1857, um, we find that in 1848, um the same judge, Judge Tanney, um, after the case got moved up and appealed from um Judge McLeod, um McLay, I believe that's his name. Yeah, McLay, McCabe. Um, Judge Tanne gave the ruling that the land belongs to the original owners, and the original owners were um the Turnikov family. Now, Eliza Turner happened to be the mother of Prophet Noble Dra Lee. So therefore, Prophet Noble Draw Lee was a crown prince or a prince of Washita with heritage of Cherokee, because the name Drew is a name that you can look up on the Oklahoma Historical Society um website on the Dulce Road, and you will find that Drew is Cherokee. All right, the last name, the surname. Um, and Eliza Turner, due to the fact that she owned land, she was one of the empress of the Washito. So, therefore, when Prophet Nobu Dra Lee made this statement that he did not tell um the members of the Morris Science Temple of America um about his mother and father and who they were, because he did not want to make over them like um they did Jesus, uh, mothers Mary and Joseph. He was right in exact because, in this sense, um, the landmark case showed and proved that the land all the way from Louisiana all the way up into almost the whole of Canada is ours. So that is the um, and this has been shown and proven in um in Supreme Court case law, the Airs of Turner versus the United States. Um, you know, so I mean, and it's so much that I can go into, you know, but I'll leave it there for right now.

SPEAKER_02: 17:31

Okay, now I I wanna uh I'm gonna play devil's advocate. Now, let's say for the sake of the words, right? So, you know, at times I think that um we're not looking deeper into the titles or names uh of tribes, right? So, like for instance, Cherokee. Now, if you look into Cherokee, if you think about the Cherokees, the first thing that comes to mind would be Native Americans, and the Native Americans, their DNA is uh different from ours, if you will, right? Even though they are original people, um, but we are not from their stock, if you will, right? The Native Americans. I mean, like, as in how you know the world sees, or you know, North people from this part of the land see Native Americans, right? They see them as you know, the ones with the you know, uh, you know, you know how they look, you know, right? Commercially, how how they're seen, how they're seen commercially. So, what would you say to people who would say uh those Indians are are not like those are not like the Moors or the African Americans, so to speak?

SPEAKER_03: 18:50

Well, Professor Noble Dra Lee is said to have been raised on the Cherokee Reservation. So that's that's that's number one. Why would that be mentioned in the historical value uh in the historical reference if it did not have any value, you know? So Prophet Noble Draw Lee was raised on a Cherokee reservation, that was significant so that we would be able to go back and look at these various roles historically and see where our surnames, our family lineage ties back to, and that is here in the Americas. So that is the purpose of that. It has nothing to do with um, you know, me having um you know, info eyelids or you know, a looking Chinese, Siberian, right? Because the original Cherokee or Selegi or any Nouia people, which means we the people, um, or the original people did not look like that. They looked like you and I. And that's a proven fact, historically. Matter of fact, um, there's a book on the Cherokee in which they tell you the bloodline of the Cherokee, and you see the word more, you see the word Carthaginian, you receive the word um Phoenician. So these are all dark-skinned, woolly-haired, heavy melanated people.

SPEAKER_02: 20:37

Okay, okay. All right. Uh brother Jelani, would you like to add on?

SPEAKER_01: 20:50

Well, like the Crown Prince said, you know, that's it's coming out now that 85% of the people that look like me and you are actually aboriginal and indigenous, you know, and a lot of the surnames are actually indigenous as well. Some of them have been transliterated and have been hidden, you know. The prophet also told us that we were already home. See, he spoke an allegory, he told he he dropped hints, you know. He told us we were already home, right? They have a long way to swim. See, so uh with all the information coming out now, I don't understand why there's such confusion. These people come from Liberia, they came off the Baron Straits. As a matter of fact, when the European first got here, we were over 2,000 years into war with them. We defeated them, and we were we we were sorry for the background, but we were gracious enough to let them dwell in teepees, you know, tents, and migrate with the buffalo with the bison, you know, and we allowed them to travel in the canoes, but at that time we had long houses, adobes, clay houses. We had summer housing, we had winter housing, but we would migrate along along with the the season change, you know. So, of course, this history is not going to be told in our schools because that would ruin the narrative of white superiority, right? You know, or I should say European superiority in a foreign land as immigrants.

SPEAKER_03: 22:59

Okay, now I have a new Islam, and and and according to the oral statements and prophecies of Prophet Nobu Jali, he stated specifically that there was Moors living up and down the Mississippi River prior to the invasion of the territory by the Europeans. So he said the Moors was already here, as Chief Jelani already made made made that statement, you know, and that's the truth of the matter. Now there is no confusion if people did their research, you know. Right now, they're getting three-minute sound bites from TikTok, and and they believe that they got all the resources that they need instead of picking up an actual book and going to the library.

SPEAKER_02: 23:49

Now, um, I think where people misunderstand is you know, I believe that we see things from like, you know, uh like like a horse with blinders. When we see a word like, for instance, Cherokee, we automatically say Native American, and we don't think of any other nations that could be attached to that name. And um, because we don't do the research, you know what I'm saying? We don't look deeper into things. So, what's the difference now? Here's here's here's what I think what would would make people think a little bit. What's the difference between uh Negro, black, color, Indian? Indian. Let's go with Indian. What's the difference between a African-American and an Indian in the word sense?

SPEAKER_03: 24:44

The word Indian originally, um, you know, according to when we look up the term Indian came by way of an alleged mistake by Christopher Columbus, in which that uh he spoke Portuguese. Um and Indios means um God's people, so that is the term Indian. Okay, uh Negro, we know Negro called from necro, which means dead, and this is where Prophet um got the statement that uh you know black means dead in law. Talking about the word specifically of Negro, Negro is necro, stemming from necro, which means dead, and then of course, um African, um African, the term African is on the words of ancient Kemi, Afu means temple or body, ra means light or sun, and then of course, of course, Ka means spirit. So that's talking about the um the light or the spiritual light in the body, you know. So there's nothing wrong with the term African in his original sense, there's nothing wrong with the term Indian in his original sense. Now, there might be something wrong with the term Negro in its original sense, however, um we know Afro is is a hairstyle, and we're looking at these various terms, black. Um, if you look up the Black Slaw Dictionary, it's not gonna give you the term black, it's gonna say black person, and um it tells you in there that a black person has basically no substance, so it's like a straw man's name, essentially, because anything in which there has no substance is the straw man. Um, we know that um Dorothy was on a yellow brick road, and you know, first one she ran into was the scarecrow, the straw man, and he was looking for a brain, he had no substance. The next was the tin man, had no substance, looking for a heart. So um, you know, they that's what they have taken the word black to mean, and then of course, in the original sense of the term black, um, you know, we get the word blank, blick, bleach, which is pale, you know. So uh I believe that they say you had the denotive meaning and the um canotive uh cognitive, what it was it right, quantitative meaning. So you so so we have to look at these particular um things, you know, when we looking at words, we have to look at the origin and look at the usage that we do that we utilize it today. So that's that's the issues with those with those particular terminologies. Please go peace, God.

SPEAKER_02: 28:16

Yeah, yeah, I'm listening, pardon me.

SPEAKER_03: 28:20

Yeah, so um we look up the word indigenous, you know, indigenous um uh went back to natural person. I believe it was in Black's Law Dictionary, seventh seventh edition, and you look up natural person, the first word for natural person is the term indigenous. So a person who's indigenous is also recognized as a natural person, they are simultaneous. When we look up the term more, well, you look up the word land, land has the word moors embedded inside the definition, and because of that, that means that land and moors are synonymous and are interchangeable, so you won't have a problem with being called a more if you're trying to tie yourself back to land, because anywhere that the more steps his foot at on dry surface, i.e., land, they're one and the same, right?

SPEAKER_02: 29:29

So so this is what trips me out, right? So, like when you look at the first degree in a student enrollment and you tie yourself to one specific part of the planet, right, and say that's the end or be all, you miss the whole point, right? Right, and I don't understand how people can't link that degree with Moorish, more the word more, the lineage of Moore's, the history, etc.

SPEAKER_04: 30:04

Right, right.

SPEAKER_02: 30:05

To me, it's a direct link. It is, it is. I don't understand how people are missing that, but you know, you could you could hit me up in the chat, let me know how you missed that. Anyway, now um the next thing I want to talk about is uh sovereignty, right? So, how do you see sovereignty? So, now sovereignty in that movement that was brought about by uh I would say the Patriot movement. From what I know, the Europeans created that whole movement more.

SPEAKER_03: 30:38

That's funny how they always say the the Patriots are the Europeans. The Europeans um they use the law, all right, and law can be utilized by anyone, whether they're European, African, um, Native American, American, Indian, more, or etc. Um, it's law, and law originally was based on universal laws, but we get also natural law because natural law is for natural persons, natural beings. All right, then we have common law, but it's common sense law, common sense law, that's what that is. So they are telling you about common sense law, they're not uh taking any law in which that would go against the constitution, which is a document in which that the Iroquois Confederation of Moors made for the Europeans in order to do to be able to conduct import and export at our ports. That was that's all they were supposed to have been doing importing and exporting, all right. That's not a flag, that is a banner that they have, and which that we gave to them the eagle, um, which made them associated or adapted into um as the 13th tribe. That's why the number 13 is prevalent um with the eagle on the back of um on that seal. Wait, the 13th tribe, the 13th tribes of what 13 tribes we adapted them into um the 13th as a third as part of a 13th tribe adopted. We are the original 12 tribes of Israel, and we adopted them as the 13th tribe, um, in order to conduct business and um have protection from King George the Third, who was a brutish Moor, a Moor the same though, who was as we know was married to Queen Charlotte, and which that Charlotte, North Carolina was named um after George, Georgia was named after King George. Um, so um this is what you know historical historical information have told us, you know. So we're looking at it from those particular perspectives, you know. Um the Iroquois Confederation was also dealt with the Chickacoy, who are the Cherokee or Celegi, or who's known to Annie New Wheel. You know, they have five different um um names. Um, also with the Linny Lenape, who are the Nanakotes, who's known as the Delaware Moors. Um, that's why they were called Moors, is because the Sultan, in which that George Washington wrote to, who's known as Ibn Abdullah Mohammed Bey, was the Sultan, but he resided in Bronx, New York. And he signed what we now know as the Treaty of Peace and Friendship between the United States and Morocco, Al Moroc, Morocco, Motorok, or known as America, America, um, on the Delaware River, on the banks of the Delaware River. And that is um historical because when you look at the speech, it doesn't send um that notice or the um of the information in which that Washington uh was greeting his majesty, you know, who was talking about the Sultan. That was in it was mailed to New York City, it wasn't mailed to Africa, you know. They have us thinking, oh, it was the country of of Morocco, it was uh the kingdom of Morocco. No, sorry, it was right here. This is the America or the Al Moroccan wish that recognized them first. So when you're in court and they just come out, well, we don't recognize the Moroccan Empire, you're right, you can't, because we recognize you. So that's the science of sovereignty. Sovereignty goes to the fact of who has the superior position, it's called the United States of America, not America of the United States. That means one has the superior position, and that is America, and we are the Americans or our Moroccans, and they are United States citizens with a small c which means uh citizen in that sense, according to um their own definition, is servant.

SPEAKER_02: 36:25

Okay, okay, and you want to uh add on, Jelani Well, Islam.

SPEAKER_01: 36:33

I mean, yeah, as usual, brother Prince, he uh he he broke things down, but you have to over also understand that in their legislation they acknowledge you know who's the superior uh uh people eighteen twour, they acknowledge that um the copper tone people are the Americans, and then in later legislation they say that they later adopted the term for themselves. That was during the decline of the Moors, but the fact still stands that the only Americans are the Copper Tone inhabitants of this continent, period. What we had was a miseducation and propaganda to make us think differently. You gotta remember, sovereign means supreme ruler of the land. This is why we we reject the term sovereign citizen, it's a it's an oxymoron, exactly, and we as Moors can't even accept that term, they put that term on Moors by calling them black sovereign citizens, all right, to make them what the Europeans are doing, Europeans don't mind shooting up cops, they don't mind standing off with the authorities, so the propaganda has to try to put us in that same box, make us dangerous when the only thing we want is freedom and want to live, but that's what scares them because they know we are the rightful owners waking up now. There was a time where we went to sleep and was totally ignorant of who and what we were, fell into that roots narrative, see, but now that we're waking up and we're understanding the truth, you know, and they're seeing what Prophet Noble Drew Ali had put down was real, right, and exact. This is where the problem is. A lot of times people don't understand when we get into situations. Me and the Crown Prince both, we've been in situations where we've had conflicts with the police. People understand if being a more if being a more was nothing, then you would not hear anything about them in the news. They have to paint a negative picture so that the negroes are too scared to proclaim their nationality. Exactly, that's what it's all about, you know. If we were if we were nothing to to be worried about, then they it wouldn't be an issue. But just imagine take the little town of Greenwood, South Carolina, where I started my my education, they waged war on us. Why? If we converted every comfort home person in Greenwood, South Carolina, there would be no revenue for Greenwood, South Carolina. They couldn't issue uh tickets and court cases and stuff like that, they couldn't, you know, use bonds and trespass on the state. So it's an issue with them. Islam I heal.

SPEAKER_02: 40:08

All right. Now, um, as far as uh the whole sovereignty movement and things like that, um, do you agree or disagree with that demonstration? It's origin, like it's its origin.

SPEAKER_01: 40:28

I forgot um the Posse Cumatadas.

SPEAKER_02: 40:32

Right.

SPEAKER_01: 40:32

Yeah, the Posse Kumatadas. You gotta understand those Europeans are mad with the United States because they helped um they helped uh uh take us over, and once they helped us, the United States turned on them, put them in the same category that they put us in in 1933. See, they made all American citizens slave by that birth certificate, Franklin Dela Roosevelt with the uh um 1933. Well, you just uh joined resolution 192. See, so now uh a situation that was designed for the original people, the Moors, they put them in that category. What? Wait a minute, I did the dirty work for you now. You making me a slave, too. Oh, you damn if that's so you know, I'll slap some lead into you first, and that's then their mo. We there is we have no horse in that race. It is a war between the Europeans, the immigrants here.

SPEAKER_02: 41:47

Now, I have a question. What what's the difference between what the prophet brought, which is the Morris Science Symbol of America, and his uh setup from the you know, the bylaw, you know, uh the constitution and bylaws and the additional the additional laws in the in the back of the 101. And you know, what's the difference between that setup and Washita?

SPEAKER_03: 42:17

It's the same family.

SPEAKER_01: 42:22

I see no difference, right?

SPEAKER_03: 42:27

Okay, so okay, I I I explain because I don't want people to just be like, okay, they they they answered that. That was that was it. Okay, all right. Prophet Nobu Jali mother Eliza Turner was the empress of the washataur. Her first cousin was Annie Turner. Annie Turner is the mother of the late Empress Verdiasi um Gaston L. Bay. Therefore, Prophet Nobu Dra Lee and her were first cousins. Okay. Prophet Nobadra Lee and myself first cousins, but he's three he's four times removed, but he was three times removed because he was end up being adopted by James Drew and James Drew's wife, Lucy, or uh Louise Drew. Okay, who was the children of, well, James Drew was the son of Frederick Drew. Frederick Drew was the brother to John Drew, who was once again the father of Prophet Noble Drew Ali. Okay. So this is the family connection here. All right, so the teachings of the family line he put within a functional family, religious, I guess you may say, um school of thought. So now, first, as a civic, all right, but overall, it still is a body politic because he did not want he he this is what was said by Prophet Nobu Jali. If they go back and read his um Morris literature, all right. The 14th, the 13th, 14th, and 15th amendment would never have been necessary if they just basically went by the declaration or the declaration of independence, which was life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. All men are created equal. If they left it at that, then it would have been no need for anything else. So that means that he got into constitutional and on constitutional issues. When you say that there was no need for the 13, 14th, and 15th amendment, that's constitutional. So when Moore say that well, we ain't had no part in the constitution. Well, then what Prof making mention of it for then? Why is he saying that we never needed the 13th, 14th, 15th? In other words, he got into constitutional law. So we're not supposed to. I thought we were supposed to be following the example. You see, these are the contradictions. I mean, I mean, I mean, and to tell you the truth, come on. We find out that his name is Thomas Drew, not Timothy Drew.

SPEAKER_02: 46:08

So for Thomas Drew, hold on.

SPEAKER_03: 46:10

Yes, his name is Thomas Drew. Yes, yes, his name is Thomas Drew. His name is not Timothy Drew. You know who made his name Timothy? Who's it? Aaron Payne. Aaron Payne was the lawyer in the Moral Science Temple. He ended up being the second business um manager, and he is the one who put on, who told his father, who was a doctor, to put on the death certificate that his name was Timothy. So for the last 90 years, all right, almost yeah, true, a hundred years, for the last 100 years or so, they've been saying his name is Timothy instead of Thomas. So so so so the information in which that is being um interpreted and being perceived is not even accurate, um, it's not infallible because his name was not um Timothy, his name is Thomas, and I got information on that. If you want to, if we want to come back and be do another class on that, yeah, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02: 47:37

I gotta see that. I I've never heard of Thomas. Okay, so the Washita D Doug Demonia would consider themselves Moors, of course.

SPEAKER_03: 47:50

Right.

SPEAKER_02: 47:51

Have uh the Washita always considered themselves Moors from the start, yes, given the the lineage, yes. Okay, and this was founded in what what year?

SPEAKER_03: 48:06

Um, it wasn't founded in a particular year. This is an ongoing thing with the um with the matriarchal system in which that was originally here. If you get the book called America, on the cover of the book, you would see um two Europeans holding up a sister, you know, who is um the matriarch, which symbolizes that America was is the matriarch. And even when you look at the um paintings in which that it was given descriptions of America, it was always a um dark melanated sister. So this has always been a matriarch, so it was following in that same line of thought of a matriarch. So um the empress wasn't the first, she speaks of her grandmother, you know.

SPEAKER_02: 49:06

Now indeed now, what what do you say about all the court cases that Moores have uh um um gone in and battle and battled with the magistrate or whatever you want to call it? Um uh, you know, what about all those court cases that Moors lost?

SPEAKER_03: 49:26

I've lost one, I've lost one court case out of about maybe um 25 court cases, brother. And I've only lost one. All right, I can show proof of my dismissals, you know, saying I have fictitious tags dismissed, saying I have fictitious um affidavits dismissed, I have fictitious uh ID dismissed. All of this was dismissed, you know. So over and over again, um, whether it was the state um highway patrol, whether it was um the police now the sheriff never messed with us.

SPEAKER_02: 50:19

That's interesting.

SPEAKER_03: 50:21

That's because they know the sheriff, the sheriff, right? They never mess with us. I never had an issue with the sheriff. Matter of fact, um, we can start to get into the point where the police will harass us, we will call the sheriffs on them, and the sheriffs would come out and tell them to leave us alone.

SPEAKER_02: 50:47

Okay, brother Jelani, with your experience with court cases and uh, you know, well, um successes than failures.

SPEAKER_01: 50:58

Well, I mean, just like the crown prince said, you know, I've had successes and failures, but it was due to lack of knowledge. When I first came in, like most Moors, gentlemen, gentlemen, my grandsons, um like most Moors, they were indoctrinated with the same education by the same person. Here's the problem: you can't use constitutional law in a municipal court, a municipal court can't even address constitutional issues, so you got a lot of Moors that were locked up for contempt. If you ever mention that constitution again in my court, you know, I'm gonna charge you with contempt, and they would lock them up. My experience is um issues have been erased from the record. See, so they might have they might have done this, this, that, that, this, this, this probable cause situations, but the next thing you know, it's gone, or it's sealed, and the seal is to prevent you from retaliating, see, so and that's when I learn the correct procedure for law, how more are supposed to address the situation. This is why a lot of times they'll say, Well, what's your real name? Because they can't do anything to the Moorish name. See, they don't have a contract with the Moorish name to have with the birth name the estate trust, but we didn't get this information until the late you know, uh 20s. I didn't get this information until 20 uh 2008 was the first time I got this information, and I realized that we were using the wrong law in the wrong court. You can't use constitutional law in a municipal court because that municipality is based on the uh city council's ordinances, and not constitutional or religious law.

SPEAKER_03: 53:27

I learned later, uh even though, even though they took their oaths to the constitution, that's right, even though they took their oath to the constitution, that's right, the clerk, the judge, as well as also the DAs, the prosecutors, they all took their oaths to the constitution.

SPEAKER_01: 53:46

Absolutely, brother Prince. But see, that's the problem. We just found out that the lot of the people in the municipal court who sit in there, they're not judges, they're not magistrates last week. They were plumbers, they took a weekend of a doggone workshop, passed the test, now they work for the city. Exactly, they have no law degree. This is why when you come in there with that law stuff, that's how you get arrested for a contempt because they don't want to look like fools in front of the regular people who are still asleep.

SPEAKER_03: 54:22

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01: 54:24

See, that that's what's going on. I had a federal court case and I had them hands down. But Kerner versus Hayes says that um a person who is not schooled in law, in other words, their law, you have to look at the substance of the case and not the form of the case. So the last time they doggone did it, it was against the law because they were telling me about I didn't fill out uh forms, I didn't make deadlines, I didn't. I'm not a paralegal, but they never address the subject matter of the complaint. See, so they lose they use loopholes to keep from giving you the win, right? You know, so we don't have to go and start getting into their law to fight them, you know. They understand that with religious law, and that's why they shut the cases down because I used religious law, their legislation say they don't have no horse in that race. Their legislation say they don't have no horse in the race. So when they find out that they violated religious beliefs and practices, now it's time to run. Look, erase everything, shut down the doggone, shut down the case, shut, shut this, this, that you know, and when you look back at it, there is no record that these things happen. So, but and that's a win. Understand, that's a win. Moors expect you to get a uh case law on the situation, and there is case law where more's won, but when they dismiss that case, when they shut it down, when they all those are all wins, right?

SPEAKER_03: 56:17

You know, so and then they're gonna show those, but you have more in which I would show you know the losses because they'll document that they'll put those on the internet, you know. But as far as the wins, they won't put those on the internet because they don't want you to know real law, because ignorance of the law is no excuse or they are concerned, and therefore they want to keep you ignorant of law so they can have that excuse in order to put you behind in jail or prison. So I'm not going to show you how to get out of court cases or or law matters. I'm not going to do that. Why? Why would I? I'm making money off of you. You are my cash cow, you know. Tomorrow, I'm going to get you for a seatbelt violation, even though that's allegedly your private car, and you're in it, and you are the one who's driving it or traveling in it or navigating it. You are the one in which that if I stop you and you don't have that seatbelt on, that's$250. I, as the police officer, I'm suing you. I'm suing you. That's good.

SPEAKER_01: 57:43

You know, and the lawsuit is actually for a breach of contract, right? No contract, no standing in law. This is why I never understood that when we came out with the Ministry of Land, Transport and Navigations, it has nothing to do with the right to travel argument. All right, a lot of Moors rallied against it, not understanding that without a contract with the Department of Motor Vehicle, they cannot move against you. See that seatbelt violation is a motor vehicle safety violation. A motor vehicle is a mode of transportation used for commerce, those requirements are meant for service vehicles from a truck driver to a taxi driver. But if you own a motor vehicle, excuse me, if you own an automobile and it is not registered to the department of motor vehicle, and you do not have a license, which is permission given for something that otherwise would be against the law, then the um South Carolina has legislation that says that in order to even take the test, you must be in contract with the Department of Motor Vehicle to even take the dog on travel's license test. See, so the whole thing is about contract and estate trusts. Who who who controls the estate trust and where's the contract? If you have control of the estate trust and you have no contracts, case dismissed.

SPEAKER_02: 59:44

Okay. Um, I uh thanks, uh Nicholas Bay for the ten dollars. Peace to NYP talk show family. Gratitude to uh GEC Jelani Bay and Dr. Aline L. Bey for bringing. Knowledge to the Moors. Um create uh creator of the boundless universe. Thanks for the three dollars. Administrative versus common law courts.

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:14

We were just talking about that. The municipal courts are the administrative courts. The common law court is article three, section two, and up, the federal court. See the main okay. So the administrative courts, you're not using the same law as you would in the common law court.

SPEAKER_02: 1:00:31

So, you know, uh my last question is how does the Washita Nation function and and how active is it nowadays compared to you know the earlier 2000s, the 90s, and and and or when you when you caught Winnerville or caught contact or became involved with the Washita uh nation of Moors? Um is it is it more active now? Is it dwindling down? Um uh what are the accomplishments that the Washita Nation has uh uh accomplished, and um you know what's going on in the future for the Washita Nation?

SPEAKER_03: 1:01:11

The Washitaur are the only nation of Moors, American Indians or Moors, in which that have actually been able to demonstrate in a court case or in court cases that land in which that is in question, Louisiana purchase, as they refer to it as never was purchased. It is still Washita proper or Washita property, and that is from the bottom of Louisiana all the way up into almost the whole of Canada. So Washita are the only ones who can actually demonstrate actual land, all right, ties in that sense. Everyone can say that they have land ties, you know, or that they bought or purchased land, or that there was a deed or warrant to that land, but Washto have land grants, the Spanish and French land grants, in which that was um passed down and conveyed from family, from the French family, and this is where we got um the Haitian involved because we think of um French, you know, we thinking of French from the from France type of men, no, the Haitians, all right? The Haitians, um, they was um, as you know, they spoke or speak French, and they were the Frenchmen, all right. They tied in and married into um the American um Indians or the Moors um in Louisiana to produce what we called Creole. All right, it wasn't the European, um Pale Europeans, it was the Haitian. So that's number one. Let's get that information straight historically, all right, because many would think, oh, it was just the European, and he came in, and that's how they got the land, and no, it came through by way of the army's through that family bloodline of the royalties from out of the black nobilities from out of France, from out of um Europe.

SPEAKER_02: 1:03:51

I keep hearing, I keep hearing about the the the the black nobilities out of yeah, uh uh out of out of Europe.

SPEAKER_03: 1:03:58

I can I can I can give you I can go through a whole class on that information. I got presentations after presentations after presentations, um, God, to put this information together to make sure that everybody knows what's really going on on planet Earth. So whenever you want to do these um shows, just hit me up. I get the presentation ready and we'll roll with it.

SPEAKER_02: 1:04:23

I want to talk about the next podcast with you about the black nobility uh of families in Europe, you know, throughout Europe and its connection to the so-called African-American last names.

SPEAKER_03: 1:04:39

The Hashburgs in particular. Um, then of course, you have those in which they from the Hashburg, um, the Empire of the Hashburg, um, which is the Holy Roman Empire, and then you have those who have gone into Ireland, um, England, and um Scotland, and that's where a lot of our names um come from in that regard. You know, um, for example, um, my sir, um, my last name, surname is um Butler, and that's English, but that came through um the Stuart family, as in King James Stewart, as in that lineage, and we come to find out that King James as well as uh um many um others were um brown skinned uh melanated people, they were not Europeans as we would think, you know, because they tell you, oh King James, he he made the Bible, and you know, he he decided to get the people together for the Bible, William Shakespeare, known as Francis Bacon, and all of this. Oh, but that's beautiful, but there's names in which that carry on, in which that shows that. So the people who have the last name Butler, who have the last name Stuart, you know, um, those are English names, but it came through the royal um bloodline from out of um England. Um, the last name Mac, you know, um that is that is um Scottish, you know, um as well as um um have Ireland um tie, you know, but those were the original uh said black or melanated people in that area, that's my last name, family name, right? Right, who's the um who who is part of the royal bloodline? Um, so we we see that over and over again. So when you get this book, it's called um African Americans are not just African. Okay, um that that that book is by Dr. Clyde Winters, PhD, and he specifically states in that book that so-called African Americans are not just Africans, so they think that we're just West African. No, we also are part of the Black Nobility families from out of Europe, we also are part of the um American Indian um families from Indo-Americas, and we are a mixture because they married in, you know, to bring forth this royal lineage in which that stretch around the world, you know. So this is why you find um the royal lineages in about 60 percent of our bloodline in the Americas, because 60 of us have Y DNA in which that ties us back to E1B1A, which is not just Hebrew Israelites, but it is also ancient Egyptian coming from Ramesses the third, as well as also the Moors of Um the Caliphate, the Caliphate uh Moors from out of Codoba and out of um Granada from Spain. Once again, the royal nobility families.

SPEAKER_02: 1:08:30

All right now, uh thank you, thank you for that bill right there. All that information gotta rewind that right there, but uh the black nobility families. I just found out about this probably about a year ago, and the information that I found was just it you it just threw my whole head off, like because like we perceive the world to be one thing, not not realizing that there's so much that we don't know, right?

SPEAKER_01: 1:09:05

When I was in the was on the when I was in the military, we went to Signella, Italy, and uh Toulon, France, and you can see the Moor statues like all over the place, all over the place, and it made me question Mark because I wasn't privy to the knowledge of being a Moor, but I was wondering what's all these statues with the afros and the dark skin, and um a friend of mine uh backed that up. He went to the army, he was in Germany, and their pharmacies are called Morin Apatica, and they have a face of a moor in a turban and a in a thick beard hanging outside of the shop.

SPEAKER_02: 1:09:50

Yeah, okay, all right now. Um but but before we close out, I just want to let everybody know that uh you will be seeing the brother Jelani on. Jelani started with us, right? Jelani, like I don't know how long we were doing this before you you start, you you came on. Uh probably like two months. We were like two months in. Now I was like, yo, Jelani. You know what I mean? So so Jelani's been with us for years now. Uh so you'll be seeing Jelani on, brother Alem Bay has been on. Um, thank you, brothers, for believing in the platform. Uh, you always have a home to come and build on. Uh uh, brother Jelani, I would like to build with you more on Masonry. And uh Dr. Aleem, I would like to build with you more on the road. Dr. Lean too.

SPEAKER_01: 1:10:39

On Masonry, too, because see, he's the one that primitived the information about Noble Jali and his Masonic um education.

SPEAKER_02: 1:10:50

Oh, wow. That right there would be a mind blower. I would like to see that information right there. Let's let's build on that at some point. On that note, thank you, brothers, for coming out this evening. I really appreciate y'all. Thank you to the chat. Thank you for the donations. We we were those donations are definitely going to marketing and all this kind of stuff. So, you know, just to build the brand more. Uh, okay, I came in late now. I gotta rewatch this. Yes, sir. You got to rewatch this from the from the beginning. Uh, again, thank you guys for coming out this evening. I really appreciate you. If you want to leave any lasting words, you can uh and promote your social medias and things of that nature. You can do that now.

SPEAKER_03: 1:11:36

Brother Prime www dralimelbey.com. Go to the website, supporters as well as also come to our event in March, March 20th, 21st, 22nd. I believe those are the dates. If not, you can check on the website. Um, but we have a three-day event coming up in March. Um doing the um spring equinox, and um, everybody's invited.

SPEAKER_02: 1:12:03

Okay, uh, in March, in March, in March. Okay, great, great, great. My brother Jelani, anything you want us uh um, you know, promote?

SPEAKER_01: 1:12:12

Other than being at Prince of Leaves uh event? No, you can contact me on Facebook as Jelani Calfani Bay. Um, Instagram is uh NGS, National Grand Sheet, Jelani Bay. Um and um I don't mind calls, man. Um 864 uh 917-5572.

SPEAKER_02: 1:12:36

So Jelani, easily, easily accessible, man. That's how he is, man. Open book, baby. Indeed, yeah. All right, man. I'm gonna run the commercial. Thank y'all for coming out, and we're out of here. Peace.

SPEAKER_00: 1:12:52

Peace, family. Welcome to NYP Talk Show. This is more than a podcast, it's a conscious platform rooted in truth and culture from the 5% nation, nation of Islam, Moorish movement, and masonry. Our mission is to reclaim our narrative and uplift the African diaspora with real stories and real conversations. Support us through Super Chat during live shows, donations on Cash App, GoFundMe, Patreon, or BuzzSprout. And by repping our official merch, available on our website and right here on YouTube's merch shelf. Every dollar, every super chat, every hoodie builds the movement. This is NYP Talk Show.