Nation of Islam vs Final Call Part 2 - Kevin Ali

What happens when a nation is treated like an organization? We open the mic to a direct, documented challenge and walk through the fault lines between the Nation of Islam and the Final Call—where the split began, why it accelerated, and what it cost. From court filings and 501c3s to the removal of chairs and the disbanding of FOI and MGT, we trace how paperwork and policy reshaped power, ritual, and the very meaning of sovereignty.

Kevin Ali brings a sharp lens to nationality, Moorish roots, and the claim that Islam is not just a religion but a civilizational identity for a people determined to govern themselves. We explore the difference between ritual and action: why FOI and MGT classes forged discipline and duty, how drill and collective training rehabilitated men, and why replacing participatory teaching with “self-improvement” changed outcomes on the ground. The debate over prayer and fasting becomes a larger question about signs versus ceremonies—do forms serve liberation, or do they become a refuge from responsibility?

Together we revisit pivotal shifts after 1975, the reframing of titles and authority, and the long echo of those choices in today’s culture. Expect respectful nods to shared roots with the Moorish Science Temple, honest contrasts with Sunni orthodoxy, and a firm insistence that shared lineage doesn’t erase real differences. Along the way, we lift up community with a missing-brother alert and an open door for leaders willing to engage on record.

If you care about Black sovereignty, spiritual clarity, and the difference between appearance and power, this conversation is for you. Listen, share, and tell us where you stand. Then subscribe, leave a review, and pass this episode to someone who needs the receipts.

Transcript

Welcome & Platform Mission

SPEAKER_02 0:10

What's going on, everybody, out there? It's Rob Brown, LMT, the People's Fitness Professional. Uh, we have the brother Kevin Minister, Minister Kevin Ali in the building with us this Sunday to expound on some things that we spoke about on the last podcast in regards to the nation of Islam versus the final call. What is the difference? Before we go into it, let's drop this commercial.

SPEAKER_00 0:37

Peace family. Welcome to NYP Talk Show. This is more than a podcast. It's a conscious platform rooted in truth and culture. From the 5% nation, Nation of Islam, Moorish movement, and Masonry. Our mission is to reclaim our narrative and uplift the African diaspora with real stories and real conversations. Support us through Super Chats during live shows, donations on Cash App, GoFundMe, Patreon, or Buzz Sprout. And by repping our official merch, available on our website and right here on YouTube's merch shelf. Every dollar, every super chat, every hoodie builds the movement. This is NYP Talk Show.

SPEAKER_02 1:27

Peace, peace, peace. We are back. Thank you for joining us this evening, everybody. Brother Kevin Ali in the building. Thank you for joining me this evening. I really appreciate you. I just want to let everyone know super chats are available. Support the channel. Super chats, like, share, comment. Also, subscribe. When you step in the room, if you're watching this podcast today and you're not subscribed, get subscribed today. Also, merch is out there. You can go to the shop on the page and purchase merch. The shop works well. I tested it out. And someone else bought some merch. So uh it works. So you're good. Anyway, let's go right into it. We're talking about the nation of Islam versus the final call, part two. So before we get started, Minister Kevin Ali, how are you doing this evening?

Debate Challenge To NOI Leadership

SPEAKER_01 2:25

Brother, I am doing fine by Allah's grace and mercy, thanking him for his messenger and who Allah who came in the person of Master Farad Muhammad. That's how you pronounce it. That's how the messenger said to pronounce it. Master Farad Muhammad. So I'm it's a great honor and privilege to be with you on NYP Talk. Uh, it is moving up and becoming one of the foremost uh outlets and organs for good, solid uh information for our people. It I I'm not I don't know if you're familiar with a program called or a network called TYT by Chink Ugar, who used to be an MSNBC correspondent. But it's it's it started just like this. Go go check out TYT.com. They've got a YouTube channel, they're now streaming all over. I I really see this channel growing into something like that. Uh that that could be really a phenomenal news organ for our people, particularly in the conscious community. So I I want to give you an original salute as well, brother. Salute, salute, brother.

SPEAKER_02 3:28

So now thank you. Thank you for that. Yeah, young Turks, yeah, young Turks. Right, right, right. Okay, now I know. Now I know. Yeah, young Turks. Thank you, uh, Wayne Biggs, for that. So, yeah, I mean, uh, before we go into it, I know you brothers and sisters, you see a lot of Moors, you see a lot of uh NOI. Um, I do have I did have some content up there for Pan-Africanism. Um, and uh you guys didn't view that. What happened with that? I'm trying to get more of a balance with pan-Africanists. Um, and uh, I'm trying to bring the five percenters up here a little bit more. Um, but uh, you know, just bear with us. We're here though. Uh, so now let's go into it Nation of Islam versus the Final Core Part 2.

SPEAKER_01 4:15

Now, before we formally get started, okay, I wanted to issue out a challenge. I am willing to debate on the basis of what I am sharing from the teachings of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad, anyone from the Nation of Islam, quote unquote, final call under Minister Louis Farrakhan about what I'm saying. Now, there's got to be a caveat. I'm not just gonna debate somebody who popped up. We all know who they are. You have to be somebody with documentation. Preferably, you'll be a minister of a mosque or temple under Minister Farrakhan, or at least the assistant minister of mosque number two, who's Ishmael Muhammad. And uh, or if you're not over a mosque or temple like some of their ministers over there, like Abel and uh Dr. Wesley, uh, I would at least have wanted to see your a lecture that you've laid down. You're not just gonna step up here. We're not I I I'm not debating somebody who has no track record. It doesn't make any sense. You got to have at least some basic qualifications. Now you can see my lectures all over YouTube and Facebook, and they've been that way for 20 for 20 years, going on 30 years. So I mean, I'm not saying I'm that great, but I have a track record. You can you can go and check my record of what I've been saying, and I pretty much have been not wavering for the last 25 years. So I wanted to issue out that challenge before we before we start. I'm not backing down from anything that I say.

Incorporation, 501c3s & “Nation” Status

SPEAKER_02 5:47

Gotcha. Check, check. I love that. Okay, so now let's build on it. Uh, Nation of So, there's some things that were said in the comments. For instance, uh, some said that the final call was in fact a uh media or news publication, newspaper, and it wasn't incorporated as an organization. Uh, like a you know, it was it wasn't incorporated as an organization.

SPEAKER_01 6:19

Well, I mean, I don't know how many different 501c3s there are over there under that organization. We know that there are at least two. There's probably more. I even shared with you a PDF document that dated from 2000, where Abdul Araf filed a brief in Cook County Court that filed a real estate exemption complaint for on behalf of, and let me find it, on behalf of Muhammad's Holy Temple of Islam. Now, the only way you get a real estate tax exemption is if you're a 501c3. So that's at least two 501c3s that we know of. I'm not gonna go out there and research all the court documents and to prove what I'm saying. Even if I came up here with a stack of court documents this thick, they still gonna be over there with them regardless of what I say. So why would I waste my time doing that? You go and find it and see if I lied. I I'm I'm not gonna go look for it. But and then you and I, I just did a curse research, remember after the program a couple weeks ago and found this second document filed in 2000. Messenger Elijah Muhammad never incorporated us. That was Wallace's mistake. After he soon after he took over, he incorporated the temple. And that allowed the devil to step in and get him for messing up with the taxes. And they had him over a barrel and they then they forced it, they forced his hand. Because when you incorporate, the Secretary of State of that uh particular state, Illinois or whatever state you incorporate in, becomes a de facto member of your board, and they can demand your financials at any time. We're not a corporation, we're not a business. We are in fact a nation. Nations don't incorporate. We are in fact divine. God doesn't incorporate.

SPEAKER_02 8:13

Okay, check, check, check. So now the uh the honorable Elijah Muhammad never incorporated the um uh nation of Islam. Okay, okay, now and and it's to basically protect the nation from any uh uh outside influences.

SPEAKER_01 8:34

I'm not gonna say it protects the nation from any side outside influence. I'm not saying that was the reason. We're a nation. He knows that he didn't incorporate us. Now, an ancillary benefit of doing that is you're now not allowing the devil in. But that's not why he did it. He did it because we're a nation. We're like Russia, we're like England, we are like Abu Dhabi, we are like the United Arab Emirates, we are like Bahrain, we are like Arabia. They're not incorporated in America. Their businesses are, but we're not incorporated in America. The messenger of Allah knew that. He was guided by Allah. And if you think out that I'm making all this up and I don't know what I'm talking about, again, my mentor was one of the first attorneys to become a registered member of the Nation of Islam and then become a minister, Minister David Bachar. He worked on many of these cases where the government would try to drag Messenger Elijah Muhammad and the nation's assets in the court. And this is what he said. He said that the messenger used to write his briefs for him in these uh actions. Did you hear what I'm saying? Yes, sir. A man who went to four years of secondary school, four years of college, three years of law school, passed the bar, was the assistant attorney general in the state of Ohio, said the messenger of Allah used to write his briefs for him for these court cases that the government was trying to bring build, showing you that a man with a fourth grade education had to be divine, had to be taught by God. So I'm not some knot on the log just talking about what I don't know. I know the messenger did not incorporate us and why he did. We're divine, we are of God. God don't incorporate. How's God gonna become a creature of the devil?

SPEAKER_02 10:25

Understood.

SPEAKER_01 10:26

Makes no sense.

SPEAKER_02 10:27

Understood. So here's, I mean, this is kind of like sidebar, something I want to talk about at an at another podcast with one of the Moorish American brothers, uh, is uh nationality, right? So, you know, the thing about nationality, the the the thing about the Moorish community or Moorish movement is based on nationality. Nationality is the order of the day. Um, um, as far as nationality, um, how do you approach that? What's your thoughts in regards to nationality?

SPEAKER_01 10:56

Well, again, I have no thoughts on that, but again, when you when you say nationality, well, what are we called? The nation of Islam. So, what is our nationality? Our nationality is Islam. We are literally the nation of Islam. These countries that you see on the map now, particularly in the what they call the Middle East, which is nothing, it's not really the Middle East, it's really Africa. But the white man dug the Suez Canal, cutting it off from Africa to make you think there's two different things. Those countries there did not exist uh before the Caucasian began spreading out of the Caesan Hillsides of Europe. They are creatures of his doing, he drew those lines. We were a one nation of Islam. There was no borders, there was no different countries, there was no juris different jurisdictions. We are in fact a nation, so that is our nationality, Islam. And who are citizens of Islam? Muslims. Gotcha, gotcha. Without without belaboring the point too much. I I can teach a whole lecture on that, actually. Yeah, that's a good that might be the subject of my next lecture. What is our nationality?

SPEAKER_02 12:11

Right. You know, that that that would be a bomb uh uh podcast with you and the brother Cosmo L right there.

SPEAKER_01 12:19

Yeah, I would like to discuss that with him because I like I said I'm learning more about uh what the prophet noble Jew Ali taught. And of course, Messenger Elijah Muhammad had great respect for Prophet Noble Jew Ali and the followers of Prophet Noble Drew Ali. And in the early days, the followers of Prophet Noble Jew Ali after his uh mysterious disappearance, uh, they be really became the foundation of the messengers early movement. Those are just facts. Right, right, right, right. They were taught, they were trained, they knew the basics of Islam while the messenger was still training a lot of people how to be Muslims. And they were the they were the basis of his early, and that's why you see a lot of the early brothers who were wearing fezes. The message allowed them to continue to wear that fez that they brought over from the holy morish science temple. Right, indeed, indeed. So now because we're one, we're Muslims, indeed, indeed.

Nationality, Moorish Roots & One Islam

SPEAKER_02 13:12

Now, um, to let's go into so we spoke about the nation of Islam versus the final call and the documentation proving that the nation of Islam is in fact right now the final call. We discussed that already. Now, there was a split based on there was a split after uh the honorable Elijah Muhammad passed form, right? He died, and then uh Warr Dean took over, right? Yes, sir, and and and and incorporated, okay, and there's some things that he did that uh went against what the messenger taught. And this is why there's so much, I would say, confusion, or I maybe not confusion, but a split, a split, and factions were created after that, after he passed. So um what what are some other things that uh Warrith Dean incorporated that the uh honorable Elijah Muhammad didn't teach?

SPEAKER_01 14:14

Well, well, well, one of the things he first did was you've got to remember that the Caucasian is very wise in dealing with rogue nations or what he considers to be rogue nations. Uh he considered the nation of Islam to be an enemy, not an ally. And we know what he does with their enemies. He tries to destabilize their governments. Well, we had a government, we have a government. He his and you can read this in the COINTELPRO documents. His desire was to take away, and when I say he, I mean the Caucasian, the devil. His desire was to take away the militant aspects that the honor of the honorable Elijah Muhammad's program. And make and and and this is a quote from the document, and make it more based on self-improvement. You heard what I said?

SPEAKER_02 15:04

Yes, sir.

Wallace’s Reforms And The Split

SPEAKER_01 15:04

The FBI said they wanted to take away the military militancy of it, the military structure, namely the FOI and the MGT, and make it more based on self-improvement. Then later on in 1983-85, you have Farkan coming up with his study guides called self-improvement, the basis of community development. So Wallace immediately disbanded the FOI and the MGT. When I say immediately, I mean within the first six months. He also almost within the first six months took out the chairs. So, in other words, a temple is a place where you are taught, according to the honorable Audj Muhammad. A mosque is a place where you pray. Well, we are being taught all week, not just on Sunday. So that if you take out the chairs, that I mean, if you take out the chairs, that means you have taken away the class, the military training of the men who belonged to Islam in North America. The militancy is what the devil feared because he was losing so many battles to the FOI who were unarmed at the time. The only two times that FOI lost a battle or got took any damage away was with them attacking the temple in New York in 1972 and with Brother Ronald getting shot, one brother getting killed, and brother Ronald getting paralyzed in Los Angeles in 1962. And that 1962 shooting really occurred because the minister of the temple, John Shabazz, Islam John, later known as Abdul Avab Muhammad, he told the brothers to stop fighting and surrender. And as they came down with their hands up, the cops shot him. Because that's what they do. Once you start fighting and defending your ground and turf, you never surrender. It's to the death at that point. Because he's gonna play to the death, and we saw that in Los Angeles with Brother Ronald. What else did he do? That was in 1962 in Los Angeles. Okay. And that hurt Malcolm very deeply at that time because Malcolm had sent Brother Ronald out there and several others in Los Angeles, and Malcolm wanted to retaliate. We'll go into that at another time. Also, in September of 1975, Wallace, or before September 1975, he opened the temple up to Caucasians. Oh, really? Yes. The brand and one of the first early converts or Caucasian converts under Wallace was a sister named a Caucasian sister. She's a Muslim, she believes in the messenger, and she believed in the messenger while the messenger was around. She just couldn't join the temple. Was Dorothy Blake Fridan, who wrote the book Message to the White Man and Woman in America, Yaqub and the Origins of White Supremacy. She was featured in the Muhammad Speaks under Wallace as a white Muslim convert. Later on in September 75, Wallace had a social. I I ain't gonna call it a social, it was a party. There was liquor, there was dancing, there was music, there was sweethearting with unmarried couples, and Phil Donahue attended that social with his black girlfriend. Is that enough changes for you, brother? I know and I know I'm forgetting some. So he was on the run for seven years and in prison for four years. He was raised by his uh his older sisters, Lottie and Ethel, pretty much. And of course his mother. But uh they put a lot of stuff in his ear. He a lot of people said he was a quote-unquote mom as well. I'm not gonna really try to smear his character, I don't know those details, right? But yeah, he had something against his father. In my in my personal opinion.

SPEAKER_02 19:21

Yes, sir. And he said that he didn't believe in uh the teachings.

SPEAKER_01 19:27

Yeah, he uh he said he never believed in the teachings. Now people say, well, he said he never believed in the teachings, therefore he's not a hypocrite. Wrong. The definition of a hypocrite is not just somebody who says they believe with their mouth but really doesn't believe, it's somebody who tries to give the appearance that they believe. So he was putting on suit and bow tie, FOI uniform, walking around giving a greeting, slithering in and out of the temple all the time, getting kicked in and every time he got kicked out of the temple, he would slither around the country with his hand out to all these other temples. And seeing who was with him. And the way he knew who was with him, and he would sit there teaching them. You know, a lot of people were enamored by it, just like today, they talk about Farrakhan's family as the royal family. Well, back then people were saying that the messenger's family was the royal family. When the messenger never said nothing like that. So a lot of people were enamored by Wallace, and he would, you know, mesmerize him because he could then because he could speak Arabic. I mean, he wasn't he but Wallace was no intellectual dummy now. My mentor and me call him W dummy because he destroyed the nation, but he wasn't an intellectual dummy. He was a very wise Islamic scholar, and he knew what to do to make our people uh follow him. Our people like real spooky stuff. They like so as I people never heard nothing like that before. And they think that is a that is a veil of righteousness to them, the same way that catching the Holy Ghost in the church is a veil of righteousness to make us to believe that people are righteous. Just because you guys can speak Arabic and you took now, not only could he speak Arabic, he started talking with an Arabic accent.

SPEAKER_02 21:14

Oh, really? Yes, I gotta see this, man.

SPEAKER_01 21:17

This is on this is online. That Negro, yeah, you can listen to any of his interviews, especially the ones before 19 uh 85 or so, between 75 and 85. He was speaking with an Arabic accent, especially when he gets around the Arabs, he starts speaking with an Arabic accent. The Negro was born in Ham tramock, Detroit. Where do you get that Arabic accent from?

SPEAKER_02 21:43

Right, right. So now you explained the Donahue and all these things that happen. Um, now, as far as the teachers are concerned, um he took the the nation more into Sunni, Sunni Islam. Right?

SPEAKER_01 22:02

He focused more on teaching the prayer, learning the prayer, the positions, you know, sezdah, learn learning the uh the the Adan, learning how to say it in Arabic. But the Messenger of Allah said it is more better to teach what separation than it is to teach prayer. It's more important to teach separation than even to teach prayer. So that's a those prayers and those positions, those are rituals. Allah has never saved the people based on rituals. He saved the people based on actions and the actions that they take. But again, he moved us away from action, moved us away from militancy, moved us to wait. And the militancy also what comes with the militancy is discipline. You can even see that their military bearing and demeanor began to change. You can see their grooming and their dress began to change. Much like you're seeing over there under Lewis Farrakhan right now. They're they're grooming and their dress is slowly changing. Even how Farrakhan comes out in dresses with the Koofy on matching the suit. First started doing that. And not even representing, like I'm here on your program representing the life-giving teachers of the honorable Elijah Muhammad. I am supposed to be in my FOI uniform or like I am now in class A. But you'll see people over there sometimes in on programs are representing there in sweaters, you know, sports jackets. Nothing wrong with that as a dress. But when you are in battle, and when we represent the messenger teaching, we are in battle. We're supposed to be in uniform, suited, booted, FOI recruited. That's another thing that slowly started to erode under over time. Uh while matter of fact, this is the Wallace said this, and this is in the paper. He called the the class A and the FOI uniform a straitjacket. Oh wow. Now again, all this time, Lewis Farrakhan is right there through this whole six months. He didn't leave right away. He was he was the international representative during this time and remained Wallace's international representative for at least three close to three years, maybe a little longer than three years. He didn't protest. He was he whatever Wallace decreed, he was teaching it hard and heavy, better than Wallace could teach it. Right because Wallace wasn't very articulate and captivating.

SPEAKER_02 24:37

Now, the messenger, okay, so we got a lot of questions here, or yes, sir, yes, sir. Comments. So uh the messenger did teach Salat, it's in the prayer book he gave us.

SPEAKER_01 24:50

I know that he gave us the prayer book, we knew the positions, he taught what the positions men he taught salat, and he never implemented it for us. Why? We are the nation of Islam. Allah came to choke choose us to put us, the lowly so-called Negro, back on top of civilization, take our rightful place over all the nations of the earth. Well, how are we gonna take our place as the rightful nation over leaders over all the nations of the earth, which includes two billion or so Muslims, and we don't even know the basics of what they do? We've got to know the basics of what they do, but that's the basics of what they do. We're also diplomats. If we go on a uh on a diplomatic uh meeting over there, like the messenger and many of his ministers did, and we don't know how to do prayer with them, what kind of Muslims do we look like? So, yeah, the messenger taught us the rituals of this, what the and he taught us what those rituals meant and that they all point to us. But we don't implement those rituals for ourselves because we are the answer and the sign to all those rituals. That'd be like me driving, I'm in Charlotte, that'd be like me driving three hours, Atlanta's four hours south, and I see the sign that says 100 more miles to Atlanta, and I stop at the sign and oh, I'm here, and I got a hundred more miles to go. No, the the destination, the so-called American Negro, this lowly once slave of the white man, is the destination and what all those signs mean. The fasting in Hajj, uh, the pilgrimage to Hajj, the fasting in Ramadan, the prayer, the positions, the call to Adam, all that points to us, and the messenger never implemented those rituals for us. He made us aware of them and taught us about them, of course. Gotcha. Hope that clears that up.

SPEAKER_02 26:48

Understood. Now, uh hold on one second. Jigger 1017. Well, you asked uh Minister Kevin if the Vanguard were pre-1975.

SPEAKER_01 27:02

Uh, that's a very good question. I'm not 100% sure. I do believe that there were there was a uh elite group of MGT that they called the Vanguard, who had maybe a special braiding on their uh uniform and you know did advanced uh drilling. But I'm I'm not 100% sure, but I I think that that did that did exist prior to 75. I'm not 100% sure though.

Salat, Rituals, And Separation

SPEAKER_02 27:28

Okay, I'm not sure if you um uh know this, but being that he you said he basically took the FOI and MGT out, what did he put in replace of it?

SPEAKER_01 27:41

Nothing prayer. FOI met on Mondays, MGT class met on Saturdays. Here's why that's so important. It's different now under our current uh diaspora. FOI class and MGT class is where you learn your religion. Sunday meeting is for the lost found. You are but now we do a little more teaching of the religion on Sunday meetings just because of the time we're in, but where you really learn the meat of your religion and how to be a Muslim is an FOI class and MPT class. It's a participatory class. Uh the captain runs that class, the lieutenants run that class, and the students in the class participate in. You're given assignments. Uh, brother, you give a 10-minute presentation on how to eat to live, you give a present 10-minute presentation on uh, and that and that's where ministers and teachers are developed in the class. When you take away that class, you take away the meat and bones and guts of the honorable Elijah Muhammad's teachings, and you are left with prayer and self-improvement, the basis for community development. No, the FOI and the MGT class is the basis for nation development.

SPEAKER_02 29:03

This is great, brother, because uh when you look at those degrees, uh what's the meaning of FOI, what's the meaning of MGT and GCC, and you break down that those degrees or uh the those answers, um, and you try to basically read it and come up with your own interpretation of it, it it takes away from its original purpose. Yes, sir. Okay, so let's go into that a little bit if you can. Uh, so can you break down again what what is done in the FOI and what is what what's done in the MGT GCC classes?

SPEAKER_01 29:48

Let's let's start with MGT GCC class first, because I I'm gonna know the least about that because no men are allowed in that class.

SPEAKER_02 29:55

Right, right, right, right.

SPEAKER_01 29:56

Uh MGT and GCC, Muslim girls' training in general civilization class, how to clean, how to cook, how to sew, how to uh take care of your children, how to uh take care of the home, how to generally act at home and abroad. That's the extent of what I know. What the does that mean that's the only thing the woman does? No. Does it mean that she can't have a career? No. But uh uh somebody on a stripper pole, no. Uh somebody in uh uh up there entertaining, shaking their money maker on state, no. A doctor, a lawyer, what you know, a businesswoman, of course. Uh but in the 60s under the messenger and in the 60s in black America, most black women did not work. But of course, the economy has changed now. Now let's let's shift over to the FOI to the FOI. If you ask any soldier, and if you ask this, if you ask the brothers under Minister Eric Muhammad in Atlanta, their favorite meeting is not the Sunday Temple meeting. And under the messenger, the the brothers' favorite meeting was not the Sunday Temple meeting. It is the FOI class. It comes to the core of what makes a man a man. Uh being there in brotherhood, uh, building your mind, building your body, uh, learning how to do self-defense, learning how to disarm a cop, learning how to uh uh protect yourself uh when you're when you're learning drilling. Drilling is fun. That's why the black Greeks uh love what they do. It's not drilling, but they love them step shows because you're in unity, you're in step, you're in force, it feels good, it builds the nature of the man, particularly the black man. That's the favorite meeting of an FOI. So I probably went a little more into what goes on in the class than I should have, but I didn't nearly touch any more of it. You have to experience it for yourself. There's something about uh a drill sergeant barking out commands, and you following those commands, and everybody's hitting those turns, hitting those left faces. It there's no feeling like it, brother. It's it's a high. And that's one of the first things that the brothers did who were drug in off the street, who were uh who are addicted to uh drugs, particularly heroin. Those endorphins that are released when you're exercising, drilling, and when you're doing hand-to-hand combat training, those endorphins are very similar to the endorphins that are released when you're doing heroin and cocaine and wheat. Except they're natural. So it goes right to our very nature. You have to experience it for yourself. That's why so many in the military have that bond, particularly in the Marines. The harder the training, the tighter the bond is. People think the minister is somebody walking around holding a holding the Bible and holding the Quran. I love you, brother. No, he's the top soldier in the mosque. So anybody who thinks Kevin Allen ain't a soldier, you got another think coming.

SPEAKER_02 33:36

Oh thank you. Thank you for the two dollars, Joeetta. Thank you for the two dollars. Peace, peace, peace.

FOI And MGT: Training And Discipline

SPEAKER_01 33:43

All right, you got you see, see see see how see how my spirit changed when I started talking about the FOI? Yes, sir, and I'm here by myself. Yes, sir. And when I fall into the FOI in another temple, I don't fall in as a minister, I fall in as a soldier, sir. Granted, and once he grants the position, I fall in. I'm not no minister no more, I'm a soldier. I love being given orders, I love drill. And you and you you'll you'll see, brother. Praises due to all of that.

SPEAKER_02 34:20

You know what? Uh I'm seeing a lot already. You know what I mean? Um, what one thing I will say is uh the brothers are very supportive, very, very, very supportive. It's really a brotherhood, uh you know, brothers are concerned, they want to make sure that you know you are getting the right information and you're okay.

SPEAKER_01 34:40

You just remind me of something. I did, if you permit me, brother, I know I think you've seen this this post on my Facebook page. There is a brother in Philadelphia out of temple number 12 under Minister Al-Mutaquan Ali, a brother Rachman Dustin Ali, who is still missing. We haven't heard any information. It's it's in the Philadelphia area. If you go to my Facebook page, uh facebook.com forward slash RKevin Ali, or it might be Kevin Ali. You can find Kevin Ali on there. But if you have any information or can give us any uh of his last known whereabouts, he was last seen December 21st in Philadelphia. Uh, that brother was one of the brothers who came with Minister Almutaquan Ali to a unity rally in Charlotte in the early uh 2000s or late 1999. So I did want to put that out. My prayers are with our Savior, Master Farad Muhammad, for him and his family that he uh experiences a speedy return to the fold of the brotherhood and the fold of Islam. And we are praying for that brother's safe return. And I ask other brother, everybody who's listening, to also pray in the manner that you that uh think is best that this brother will be all right and have a safe return. He's the father of at least one daughter who I think graduated from college uh December 19th, according to his Facebook page. So I did want to mention that. So forgive me if I've overstepped my bounds on that.

SPEAKER_02 36:04

No, no, no, no, no. That's fine. That's fine, brother. Definitely uh seem to be a real peace, brother. I think I inboxed him one time. We went back and forth building a little teeny bit. Um, he seems to be real positive. He doesn't he doesn't want any problems, he wants to stay out of problems.

SPEAKER_01 36:22

Yeah, he's nothing like me. He's definitely nothing like Minister Eric Muhammad. I'm saying that jokingly. He he's a very he's a very humble and a very good brother. He was the assistant minister under, he is the assistant minister under Minister Al-Mutaquan Ali in that temple in Philadelphia, who was a disciple or student of Minister Jeremiah Shabazz from Philadelphia. That's that temple is a legacy of that.

SPEAKER_02 36:50

Okay. So now um after Wareth Dean took over, took uh basically took the nation into uh being uh Sunniism, if you want to call it that, if you will. Uh, and then you had uh Minister Farrakhan come in, and you know, we've been talking a little bit about Farrakhan on this platform. Um now we spoke about uh how he followed Warath Dean Muhammad, and then he then decided to go his own path after a while. I think around the 80s, I believe, or 70s or 80s.

SPEAKER_01 37:29

Somewhere, depending on who you ask, somewhere in late 77, early 78. Okay. Most of Wallace's changes, including the disbanding of the FOI and the MGT, were done in the first six months, including the removal of Master Farad Muhammad as being God Allah or God in person, and including the removal of the honorable Elijah Muhammad being the messenger of Allah. That was changed in the first six months.

SPEAKER_02 37:58

It's another thing that was changed in the first six months. And maybe that was changed to uh pretty much appease the Muslim world.

SPEAKER_01 38:07

It was changed to put us back into spook worship. Will you sit at home and wait for that mystery god to bring you bread? Emphatically, no. Emphatically, no. Many of my people for 379 years have prayed for that mystery god, and we've received nothing but hardships, headaches, out of doors. Matter of fact, we were beaten, killed by the ones who advocated such God, right? So, yeah, to take us out of something real, which is the messenger and the his man God, and put us in something that doesn't exist. We're right back in spook worship. And brother, according to message to the black man, who is the author of mystery god teachings?

SPEAKER_02 38:48

It would be the white man, Christianity, Ya'kob.

Brotherhood, Missing Member Appeal

SPEAKER_01 38:54

Yeah, oh yeah, yeah. Both Christianity, according according to Message to the Black Man, go read it if you think I'm lying. I know y'all haven't read it in a while. Both Christianity and Orthodox Islam, according to the honorable Elijah Muhammad, believe in a mystery God. There's no difference in Christianity and Orthodox Islam. They are equal in their mystery God belief. So if we can't steer them back, you can't steer us back into the church. But how do you steer them back into mystery God teachings where their prayer is no longer to the one who has the power to defeat the my white the the white the Caucasian? You steer them into spook worship under the guise of Idis Lan. And this is what the messenger wanted for us because he is his son. That's why they that's why they did it. And yeah, and yes, a secondary benefit of that is to appease the Muslim world, but the main thing is to get us out of the belief in the God, who can do something and answer our prayers. That's the black men. The black man answered our prayers. Our ancestors, the holy scientists of Islam, mainly the Savior's Father, heard our prayer. He heard our moaning and our groaning. And he said, I would come, but I'm black. Oh, comely, you daughters of Jerusalem. For the hurt of my people, I'm black. So he made a specially prepared one that could get amongst both people. That's why his mother was a Caucasian woman. Because the white man blocked any black man from coming in the country, especially from a Muslim country. Wavez took away all that. And he made his father the master. Well, if his father's the master, what is Master Farad Muhammad? So he started calling Master Elijah Muhammad. And we in our dumb minds thinking, oh, that's a good thing what he's calling his daddy now. No, it's not. That's not the title that God gave him. The messenger said, I want to keep in my place. Your Master Farad Muhammad. Your Allah. No, I'm the one who represents Master Farad Muhammad and represents Allah. That's what he basically said in Theology of Time. The Messenger of Allah is his proper title. It's the greatest title that's been given to any man in 76 trillion years of history. And Wallace took it away. He set himself up as a God besides Allah. How's Wallace going to change his title? Wallace didn't give him his title. The savior did.

SPEAKER_02 41:42

So besides Wallace, besides uh Warwith or Wallace, uh, who else came out? We had we had Wa Warwith, we had Wallace, uh uh Silas, uh, and who else?

SPEAKER_01 41:56

Who what other people came out as well, of course, Silas went directly to uh Woodlawn and with a letter and challenged uh Wallace that he was gonna stand back up. You also have Yusuf Bey out in Oakland who maintained your black Muslim bakery, but he never actually called it the Temple of Islam. But other than that, I can't think of anybody in those mid to late 70s and early 80s who was really standing or trying to restand or stand on what the honorable Elijah Muhammad taught. Again, Wallace is standing on and saying that he's teaching what the honorable Elijah Muhammad taught and what he was leading us to. Matter of fact, he told the lie that that's why we fast. And again, happy, happy Ramadan for us fasting in December. He told us that the reason why the messenger had us fast in December was because it was the shortest days and we were too weak as a people to fast in the long days. Well, that's not what Hadi Talil says why we fast. We fast in those days because we're a sign of the end of fasting, and we choose the last month of the year because we're the last people as a sign of that end. We don't take and then later on the message says we don't take the fasts of other religious people. Are the Orthodox Muslims other religious people? Are they other people? Yeah. Are they religious people? Yeah, we don't take their fast. Why not? The messenger condemned their fast as not being a fast. He said, Well, if you can convince me that it's a good thing to fast for receiving the holy Qan, well, that doesn't make sense to me. Why are you fasting for something that you already have received? So if you can convince me, I'd be happy to join you. But the messenger never had us join us then in their fast. Then later on in How to Eat to Live Book 2, he said, their fast represents the spiritual darkness of Yaqub's made man. Where sport and play, murder, uh lying were the order of the day. And that's why they can uh they don't eat during the day, during the sunlight, but they party all night long when the sun goes down. They can eat from sundown to sunup, and they do. That's why you got so many fat Muslims in the east. Why they eat from sundown to sunup when it's dark? Because under the cover of darkness, Yaakhu's people played for 6,000 years and played on us. Yeah, all right. Tell me the message wants us to fast with them. They're celebrating Christmas in Riyadh, brother. They're celebrating Christmas in Jeddah, in Medina, in the Muslim countries, in the UAE. They're celebrating Christmas. Sounds like the Orthodox Muslims need to fast with us in December to remove themselves from false worship. They are supposed to join us. Our wisdom is supreme. And we have the last messenger, and God visited us, not them. He left them. They don't know nothing about this. Now, I want to just so they can get with this or they can get down right now.

SPEAKER_02 45:04

I I I want to ask, I want to bring this question up here because I think that this is an important question, right? Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_01 45:13

Forgive, forgive me for getting so passionate.

SPEAKER_02 45:15

No, no, no, no. You had the stem patch, man. You might have had the yes, sir.

SPEAKER_01 45:19

Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_02 45:20

Well, you start you got me started talking about foi, so I got that foi demeanor in me. So no, no, we need that. So uh this right here, who did the founders of the nation of Islam learn from? And and the reason why I think this is a an important question is because it came from a Moor, and Moors always attribute the the foundation of the teachings to Prophet Nobu Jouali.

Farrakhan, Titles, And Orthodoxy

SPEAKER_01 45:49

Well, brother, I mean, you could say that in a general sense, but in the same general sense, you could say the nation of Islam was founded by Prophet Muhammad 1400 years ago from Arabia and the Orthodox Muslims, because there are general similarities. The nation of Islam is governed by 12 major scientists, have been doing this for 66 trillion years, writing history in 25,000-year cycles for the last 66 trillion years. Those wise holy scientists are the leaders of Islam and the ones who ruled the planet. Master Farad Muhammad's father was one of those scientists. And those scientists also have what are called trainees or apprentices. They're the minor scientists, they're their actual blood sons. They teach and train their sons to take their place as the major scientists. So that's how knowledge passes from father to son. So are there similarities to what Noble Duali taught and what the honorable Ajmana taught? Yes, general similarities. But the but you when you look into the finer details, and this is not to disparage what the brother's saying or anything like that, there are too many differences in what the nation of Islam teaches and what the uh more science teaches to say that it copied off of more science. Just like there's too many differences in the nation of Islam's teachings and orthodox Islam's teaching to say we copy from Orthodox Islam. Just like there's too many differences, there's a lot of similarities in Masonic and the Shrine and the Nation of Islam, but there's far too many differences to say it derived from that. Uh, all of it is from the same root, so that's why those branches of the tree with the different leaves they look similar. But we don't say on the oak tree, well, you know, that leaf there on the oak tree, it copied from that leaf over there. It's from the same root. What does it really matter? I mean, it's obvious that what we teach is different, but we're brothers, right? Right, exactly. We're brothers. Indeed. Again, the messenger had great love and great respect for Noble Juali and his followers. And I, as I shared with you earlier, the followers of Noble Juali were some of the foundational pieces in the early days of the nation of Islam. He said you should not hesitate to come over. And they came over and joined with the messenger and bore with they didn't just come over, they bore witness that Master Farad Muhammad was God and that the honorable Elijah Muhammad was his messenger. He allowed them to continue to wear their fez. And even he donned the fez at times. Nothing wrong with that. That's nothing but unity and brotherhood.

SPEAKER_02 48:26

Right, for sure, for sure. Uh, another question from Jigger. Uh, Supreme Minister John Muhammad in that's right. Solomon Royale. What do you know about those brothers?

SPEAKER_01 48:43

Yes, he's correct. Minister John Muhammad, I forgot about him, the messenger's actual blood brother. Sometime in the late 70s, early 80s, he began standing again and teaching uh what he said were his were his brothers' teachings, the nation of Islam's teachings there in Detroit. I did forget him. I I don't know when Royal, who said that he was Allah, said that he went into the sun. He said he flew into the sun, and people asked him how he did that. He said, I went at night. I don't know when he stood up, but he proved to be a complete nutcase. And he the United Nation of Islam was funded and founded by uh by the United States government as a psyop. What you heard what I said. Okay, wow. I sat across the table from Abbas Rasul with John Muhammad and David Bachal, and he sat there and told that he was trying to get us to come with them. And he said, Money is no object, you won't have to worry about money. We knew exactly what he did. Who's the man with the with the with the deepest and the most unlimited pockets? Not Abbas Rasul, not Royal, it's the Caucasian. He gave him all those buildings in Kansas City for a dollar. And even though they had the buildings in temp in in Kansas City, uh Abbas Rasul was based in Temple Hills, Maryland, which is about a stone's throw from the CIA building. Okay, okay. Now what what what proof do you have of that, Kevin? You go find it. You can't live my life from the last 35 years in here and know all this. I ain't got time to research. I'm not a researcher. You go find it. I just told I told you the truth just now. Temple Hills, Maryland is where the United Nation of Islam was based. But all their buildings and all their supporters and all their members were in Kansas City. Temple Hills, Maryland is a stone's throw from the CIA building. But yeah, Minister John Muhammad, the message's blood brother, did stand up in Detroit sometime. I'm not sure exactly when. He had a paper Muhammad speaks, and he began teaching the messenger teaching. I'm not sure what the exact date was. Did he have any success? Yeah, he had he had he was very well known in Detroit. Had a very successful temple, and his his temple still exists to this day. I think uh is it Minister, uh, Minister Omar Shaheed is uh the legacy of that temple in Detroit. Okay, but yes, he he was very successful. I I never met him personally. And let me say this. People ask me, well, what do you know about Minister Farkan? You don't know, shut up. I have you ever had a conversation with Minister Farkan? I've never had a personal conversation with Minister Farrakhan. I've never met him, never spoken to him, but I did speak to him in an interview. He was on Munir Muhammad's show in Chicago in the early 2000s. Uh Crow, Coalition for the Remembrance of Elijah, and it was a cable broadcast, a live broadcast. And I called in, I was at Minister John Mohammed's house in Chicago, 72nd Street and Jefferson Avenue in Chicago, and I called him and I asked Minister Farrakhan a direct question. This is on tape. I heard it with my own ears, and it's on tape. You can get it from Crow. I asked him, I said, Yes, I'm gonna ask you this question if you could please answer it yes or no. Is Allah in the person of Master Farad Muhammad still the God that you represent to us? And is the honorable Elijah Muhammad still the messenger of that God that you represented that to us? Could you please answer that yes or no? And then you could feel free to expound on it after that if you like. Thank you for taking my question. You know what his answer was?

SPEAKER_02 52:39

What was that?

Fasting In December Versus Ramadan

SPEAKER_01 52:40

I can't answer that yes or no. Well, that was enough for me. You can't answer that yes or no. You're you what you said is clear as crystal to me. I don't need to know no more. You can't answer that yes or no. Okay. Well, that's clear. Later on, six years later, at a saviour's day banquet, a Saturday Savior's Day banquet, we were in town for Minister John Muhammad's Temple Savior's Day celebration. Farcon called up Minister John Muhammad, not the messenger's brother, the messenger's minister in temple number 26 in San Francisco. And he said, uh, I want to invite you to the banquet uh tonight. And Minister John said, Well, uh, we've got all our people here. We're in town and having our Savior's Day. He said, Well, they're all invited as well. And we, Minister Farrakhan, invited us all to the banquet at uh the um uh uh at the at McCormick Center on that Saturday, I think this was 2006. And he got up and he he uh gave Minister John Muhammad props. He said this. Now, this is not an exact quote, I'm gonna say it as best I can. He said, Minister John Muhammad is a representative of the honorable Elijah Muhammad. You see him all the time on the cable access program. If you want to, if you want to hear the teachings of the honorable Elijah Muhammad, listen to that man. If you want to hear the teachings of the honorable Elijah Muhammad, listen to that man. So what the hell are you teaching? He's very clear. So, what does the Holy Quran say? Not that I'm saying that he's the devil, but we step into these uh roles sometimes. I had no power over them except I called them and they came. He told there was about five or six thousand people there. He said, You want to hear the teachings of the messenger, listen to that man. So, what can he say on that day? I I told them who to who to listen to, and he did. Now, did his people pick that up? Of course not. I picked it up and couple that with what he said five or six years earlier. When my question, are you still representing Master Farad Muhammad as God and Elijah Muhammad as the messenger of that God? I can't answer that yes or no. Well, you're right there say no more to me. Okay, I understand you're clear as I heard you. When somebody tells you who they are, believe them. Right. Indeed. And now what we see over there, I mean, I I really haven't been paying real close attention to everything they teach. I couldn't even tell you how their temple meetings go. But that all that Scientology, and if you listen to their subject matter, it's very general. You know, very uh power of positive thinking, the love of God, you know. You know, there's every temple meeting you're supposed to teach on the flag of Islam, every temple meeting you're supposed to teach on the history of Yaqub, the history of Musa, the history of the Caucasian caves. As to the best of you, they're not teaching those things as a subject. You also should have the uh oh, that's another thing that he took out from the messenger. The actual facts board. Which one will survive the war of Armageddon? That was immediately taken out. That's in every temple meeting. You know what I'm talking about. The actual facts board with slavery, suffering, and death. Flag is on freedom, justice, and equality, man hanging, the black man hanging on a tree. Which one will survive the war of Armageddon? That was immediately taken out, and so was the flag. Flag was immediately taken out. The American flag was left in.

SPEAKER_02 56:32

Interesting. That's very interesting. Now, uh but uh we got another podcast coming on in about four minutes with Brother Eric Mohammed. Brother, the time has flown. Yeah, yes, for sure, for sure. So um uh, but we're definitely gonna have you back on to do a final uh Nation of Islam versus Final Call Part Three. Uh uh, you know, we could we could talk about that, you know, uh at a at a later time. Uh but uh but thank you for coming out this evening. You broke it down.

SPEAKER_01 57:01

Thank you again, and I reissue that challenge to debate anything that I've talked about with the teacher on the teaching of the mester from people who are in Lewis Farcon's Minister of Lewis Farrakhan's organization. But you got to be a minister with some documentation. We got to be able to at least hear you give a lecture or hear one of your lectures.

unknown 57:18

Indeed.

SPEAKER_01 57:19

I name some of the ones I already know, but I still issue that challenge. I anytime, any place, anywhere we will lay down what the honorable Osmond teaches against anyone. Thank you again, brother Ron, for the great work that you're doing, and thank you to your listening audience. And forgive me for getting so passionate today.

SPEAKER_02 57:36

No, no, no, no, no. We need that. We need that, brother. On that note, thank you for everybody. Thank you to everybody coming out this evening. Asalam Alaikum. Well I am salah. And we are out.

SPEAKER_00 57:48

Peace family. Welcome to NYP Talk Show. This is more than a podcast, it's a conscious platform rooted in truth and culture from the 5% nation, nation of Islam, Moorish movement, and masonry. Our mission is to reclaim our narrative and uplift the African diaspora with real stories and real conversations. Support us through Super Chats during live shows, donations on Cash App, GoFundMe, Patreon, or BuzzSprout. And by repping our official merch, available on our website and right here on YouTube's merch shelf. Every dollar, every super chat, every hoodie builds the movement. This is NYP Talk Show.