Nationality and Birthright- Nation Of Islam Vs Moorish Science

A label can erase a lineage—and a lineage can unlock a nation. We brought together two powerful voices, Minister Kevin Ali and Brother Cosmo El, to test the foundations of identity: is nationality a matter of bloodline and birthright under law, or a living nation established by divine decree that outlives borders and bureaucracies? What follows is a lucid, energetic exchange that challenges assumptions and offers real tools for reclaiming status, culture, and governance.

Cosmo El walks us through Moorish Science’s two-part framework—divine creed and nationality—and why renouncing the chattel terms Negro, Black, and Colored is essential to political recognition. He traces lineage from Moors to Moriscos to the modern “Negro,” grounding nationality in consanguinity and jus soli, and explaining why a jural society, identification documents, and records are practical steps toward rights, inheritance, and reparative claims. The argument is clear: without a recognized national name, communities remain vulnerable under law.

Minister Kevin Ali brings the Nation of Islam’s sweeping view: Islam as a complete way of life, government, and civilization that defines a nation beyond colonial maps. He points to stateless nations, diplomatic receptions, and the flag of Islam to show how nationhood can exist without territory. Drawing on layers of law—eternal, divine, natural, and positive—he argues that God’s declaration of a nation supersedes modern boundaries and that building institutions is the path to durable power.

Across the conversation, we weigh flags and identity cards, scripture and statutes, heritage and statecraft. The tension is productive: one pathway centers international legitimacy through bloodline and documentation; the other centers divine mandate

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Transcript

Mission And Support For NYP Talk Show

SPEAKER_04 0:00

Just uh what's going on, everybody out there? It's Ron Brown, LMT, the People's Fitness Professional. Uh, before we go into this discussion, I know you brothers and sisters out there have been waiting for this discussion. Before we do that, let's hit the commercial and go straight to it.

SPEAKER_00 0:25

Peace family. Welcome to NYP Talk Show. This is more than a podcast. It's a conscious platform rooted in truth and culture. From the 5% nation, nation of Islam, Moorish movement, and Masonry. Our mission is to reclaim our narrative and uplift the African diaspora with real stories and real conversations. Support us through Super Chats during live shows, donations on Cash App, GoFundMe, Patreon, or Buzz Sprout. And by refing our official merch, available on our website and right here on YouTube's merch shelf. Every dollar, every super chat, every hoodie builds the movement. This is NYP Talk Show.

Setting The Topic: Nationality And Birthright

SPEAKER_04 1:14

All right, we're back, we're back, we're back. Thank you, brothers, for coming out this evening and agreeing to this subject. This has been on the table for a little while. Well, for a long time, actually. Uh these are quite this is a uh a question that comes up a lot when I'm online talking to people uh in chats or what have you. Um, you know, people say that the nation of Islam, they don't know a lot about uh nationality and birthright. Um and more and the Moors, Moore is science, the prophet taught nationality and birthright. So I want to talk about nationality and birthright today, and uh we could all learn from each other and uh have a beautiful dialogue, and um you know, maybe we have some misconceptions about the nation of Islam on birthright and nationality and birthright. You know what I'm saying? So let's let's let's see what happens. Peace everybody into in the chat. I really appreciate you coming out this evening. So let's just open up the floor. I want to open up the floor with Brother Cosmo L in regards to the uh nationality and birthright. Uh, because you know, according to the prophet, that's the order of the day, right? So so so let's let's talk about you know nationality and birthright, starting with uh Cosmo L, and uh, you know, let's take it away on that.

SPEAKER_02 2:41

All right, Islam. Um Islam 7, giving perfect praise to Allah, honors to his prophet, Prophet Noble Juwali. I give honor to my illustrious and industrious forefathers, the honorable Marcus Messiah Garvey and Prophet Noble Juwali. And I greet you all in the humble words of peace, Islam. Asalamu Aleikum. Walakum Salaam. So um, I mean, it's uh it's a vast subject. I could, you know, start pretty much anywhere. Um, but uh in relationship to nationality and birthright, uh, this is one of the aspects of what Nobu Juwali brought with the Moorish Science Temple of America when he founded it. Uh the Moorish Science Temple of America focuses on uh divine creed and nationality. So it's a two-part demonstration, yet they're in they're inextricably uh connected to one another. In relationship to nationality, uh it is well known that the Moorish Science Temple of America under Prophet Noble Jwali has taught our people that uh they need to proclaim their free and national name to be recognized by the government in which they live and to all nations of the earth, and that uh he taught that names such as Negro, black, colored, Ethiopian, uh, Afro, Aphram, Sambo, Quadrun, Octaquadrun, all of these terms were uh chattel terms, meaning that they were uh terms that we were branded with uh when we arrived here in North America, those of us that did, and those that were already here. And so uh he taught us that our nationality was Marsh American, meaning descendants of ancient Moroccans, descendants of the uh of the ancient Moroccan Empire and born here in America, and that this was a necessary um uh proclamation and a necessary action that the so-called black people here in North America, uh, even though I'm in Hawaii right now, but in North America uh needed to take in order to uh attain the highest in life and to attain respect around the world and in the government of the USA, and that uh we would not be respected uh as uh those who had risen from the depths of chattel slavery until we return the branded terms. And I can get into later uh uh why he chose Moorish American and what the ancient uh Moroccan Empire or Moorish Empire is, but this is the foundation of the teachings on the nationality side. Uh, the divine creed side was that uh Moors were Moslem, we were Mohammedans, and that he brought us the religion of Islamism, which was the uh Mohammedan faith exercised uh here by Moorish Americans in a way in which was suitable to our environment and for our political, social, and economic needs. And I'll yield with with that.

SPEAKER_04 6:00

All right, all right. That's that's peace, that's peace. So now uh as far as so you broke it in two parts. So you said you spoke about divine creed, right? And as far as nationality, you're talking, you're speaking specifically of labels, right?

NOI Perspective: Nationhood Beyond Borders

SPEAKER_02 6:19

Well, I'm speaking the labels need to be returned, uh, and we need to acknowledge ourselves and our nation through our bloodline, which is a divine bloodline, but it's a bloodline, it's a pedigree, it's not the faith aspect of it. The faith aspect of it, we are all brothers in faith, and we are an uh uh Islamic nation or a nation under Islam or nation of Islam in that sense. However, our nationality and our pedigree is something that puts us on an equal footing with everyone around the world who has a nationality and a pedigree. And we are taught in the Holy Quran of Mecca that Allah created us in tribes and nations, that we may know one another and not despise one another. And so, again, nationality and our nation is inextricably connected to our faith, yet they are uh two different uh modalities.

SPEAKER_04 7:21

Okay, okay, all right. So now to take it to uh Minister Kevin Ali, um, as far as nationality and birthright, I don't know if you want to piggyback off what the brother said, or if you want to give your uh explanation of what how you see nationality and birthright.

Law Frameworks: Divine, Natural, Positive

SPEAKER_03 7:40

Yes, sir, brothers. Uh, first let me just begin in the name of Allah who came in the person of Master Farad Muhammad, thanking him for his coming and thanking him for raising our last and surely our greatest messenger, the honorable Elijah Muhammad. Before we get started, brother, how do you like the lighting? I I did a little better on the lighting this time. Yeah, it's better this time. All praises are due to Allah. And uh, second of all, to actually begin, I'm a little surprised that what did you say in your opening, brother Ron? That people didn't really think the nation of Islam focused on nationality at all. Yes, yes, sir. Is that what you said? Yes, sir. Yes. That is shocking to me. I'm absolutely shocked that people don't have don't think the nation of Islam focuses on nationality. Uh, first, let's take a very elementary look at it. Let's look at the name of the, and I'm saying group or organization for lack of a better term. Nation of Islam. The discussion should be over at that point, right there. Right in the name, it tells you that we are in fact a nation. The honorable Elijah Muhammad teaches us that upon the coming of God, he declared that we were the lost, found nation of Islam. So I'm gonna I'm gonna take a little segue into uh into secular into secular uh dynamics just to give us some some basis. Uh when we're talking about a nation, and particularly nations that are based on law, divine law, uh religious law, if you will, uh there's actually even the Caucasian recognizes that there's actually four levels of this law that that defines us as a people or as a nation. There's uh eternal law, that's God's divine law. There's also the divine law that God's direct revelation to humanity. So, in other words, eternal law is the nature of a person. There are just certain things that a person is by nature, that no writing, no saying can change that. But to give further clarification, God sends scriptures and messengers to further elucidate that divine law. That's the divine law. The fourth level of that bear with me. I just I just took a couple of notes before we came on. The third level of that is natural law. This is humans' rational understanding and participation in eternal law. See, that's where we come in. And the fourth is human positive law. These are specific laws made by human governments, statutes, regulations, etc., etc., that are codified and written down by people that are divinely inspired, or in the case of the quote-unquote democracies, governmentally inspired by the vote of the people. In our case, with the Nation of Islam and the Moore Science Temple of America, those human laws were given to us by the Holy Prophet, noble Jew Ali, and the honorable Elijah Muhammad, and the divine scriptures of the previous prophets and messengers that were laid down before us, which we all adhere to. So now what constitutes what constitutes a nation? I'm gonna give you real quickly because the honorable Elijah Muhammad teaches us that we are not some little group, we are not just some little religion in the nation of Islam. We are in fact a nation. I'm reading to you now from the book The True History of Elijah Muhammad. It was published from writings and speeches that he made. He states in here we brought the white man out of the caves and hillsides of Europe and civilize them. We are the ones who did that. We, the nation of Islam, have produced all of his guidance. Wait a minute, the white man didn't come out of the cage until 6,000 years ago. How did the nation of Islam produce his guidance? Since the nation of Islam, in most people's minds, was founded in 1930 or 1931 or so by Wallace Farad Muhammad WD Farad. It's because the nation has no birth record, it has no beginning nor ending. We were declared a nation by Almighty God Himself. Okay, well, what's the name of your nation? Islam. Who are citizens of the nation of Islam? Muslims. Who civilized the Caucasian when he was in the caves 6,000 years ago, 4,000 years ago? We did. The nation of Islam. We are in fact a nation. Well, what are the boundaries of our nation? See the current maps that we see, and if I'm going long, just give me a heads up or something so I can let the brother chime back in. But the current boundaries on the map that are drawn on the map, those are recent boundaries drawn once the Caucasians left the caves and hillsides of Europe. They drew those boundaries. What's the boundaries of our nation? 196,940,000 square miles. Every square inch of it is the nation of Islam. And the what we called that boundary originally, according to the honorable Elijah Muhammad, because I have no thoughts on this. What we originally called that boundary was Asia. The whole planet was called Asia, not a continent. The entire planet was called Asia. So our nationality, our who we are as a people, as a country, as a nation stretches all the way back to the beginning and the creation of this planet, which we the original black man created. So that divine law, that number one in that secular definition of law, that is us initiating that divine law. That trumps anything else, whether it's codified in physical law by governments today, or whether it's codified even in scriptures that have been revealed since that time, if that makes any sense.

Bloodline, Pedigree, And Recognition

SPEAKER_02 15:25

No, I understand. No, of course, we're not bound by it. But since we dealt with that, um and I'm familiar with the definitions of what you spoke of in relationship to um if you look up in Black's Law Dictionary, second edition, look up divine law, and it's gonna express the very same concepts. And I often teach on these concepts, divine law, or as you say, eternal law, is um broken into three categories, as you said, is natural law, right, which is laws observable by nature and intrinsic to us all by virtue of being born, like inalienable rights, so to speak, uh, which the constitution speaks to. And then there is revealed law, which is the scriptural law. Doesn't matter what scripture it is, it's scriptural law, it's revealed law to those people. And uh thirdly, is the positive law, and the positive law, like you said, is the edicts that come forth from the uh uh uh prophets or in our case grand sheiks or ministers practicing law, as in uh Act One of our divine constitution and bylaws, grand sheiks are empowered to make law and enforce law, dah, dah. So this is actually true, but this is not the definition of a nation, this is the definition of divine law. Now, um, nations can be created around divine law, and this is true, and this is exactly what the prophet Nobu Juwali did. In Acts 6, the prophet says, Um, this is a new era of time now, and all men must proclaim their free and national name to be recognized by the government in which they live into all nations of the earth. Now, the uh Morris Science Temple of America was founded in 1913 AD, but in 1912, something very significant took place, which was the forming of the League of Nations. And so when the prophet says there this is a new era of time now, this is due to the organizing of nations under a specific type of structure, religious or otherwise. And when you look at the League of Nations, and we say, 'Well, that's the League of Nations, that's the so-called white man.' You know, the United Nations come out of that. It's more Asiatics on that than the so-called European, though we know he's bullying everybody, right? But it's more Asiatics there, and this tradition extends back to, I believe it's uh, and that's one of the things. Let me make reference here for the people watching, is Genesis, which the messenger taught out of uh the Bible, uh, Genesis chapter 10, and it deals with the tables of nations, and the table of the table of nations, even though uh these people had uh were Muslim because there's only there's only one God, there's only one faith, whatever you want to call it, uh we we recognize Allah by different names, but if you're talking about the creator, there's only one creator, and so all of these nations had their faith. And in the in the case of the Bible, they were uh descendants from Ham and Shem and all of these people who uh are made reference to by the minister and by uh Prophet Nobu Juali, and yet they had a table of nations. So uh in the Holy Quran Mecca, it tells us we are one um, Islam as Muslims, we are one um, we are one body politic as a group of Muslims, however, we still have family that may not be a part of our religious body politic or our religious nation or our nation based on religious principles, and these people that are not our family, I mean that are our family but may not be Muslim or may not be Buddhist or may not be Christian, depending on where wherever their persuasion is, still hold the same nationality of us because nationality stems from your bloodline and your pedigree and from the land that you inhabit. So take it back to Black's Law Dictionary. The definition of nation is number one, a people. And and this, I believe, is what you know you're referring to when you say a nation is a people. We are a people. This is true. However, an organized nation, it's the second definition that comes after the nation in second uh black's law definition. Dictionary second uh edition under the definition of uh nation, it says a people or an aggregate of men organized uh under a juror society founded upon law. Now, that jural society can be either based on divine law, that jural society can be based on natural law, and that jural society can be based it on based on positive law. But when we say nation as Marsh Americans, we understand we're all Moors, we're all a nation of people. Yet we what is required after that in this new era of time now, and to take our place amongst the affairs of men, is to organize ourselves under that jural society and that society founded upon law to represent not only our uh religious uh beliefs and faith, but also that of our bloodline, because we're taught by the Prophet Nobu Juali that there is an earthly salvation and there is a divine salvation. And through our bloodline, there are many things that are owed to us, such as in compensation and reparations and so on and so forth. And we come from our mother, and so nationality, if you want to look up this concept, it's known as juice sanguus or consanguinity, and this means that nationality stems from the bloodline, and this becomes important in nations because inheritance is through the mother, inheritance is through the bloodline in our religious body politics, whether Hebrew, Islamic, or otherwise, inheritance is based on the bloodline, and so I think that though we can uh form a nation based on divine law, and whether we're all Muslims, whether we're all, or you want to use the word Muslim or or or Hebraic or Jewish, we still have a bloodline and a pedigree that Allah created us in that has to be uh that we have a duty to organize not only those who uh are part of the uh religious body politic, but also those who are not a part of it, and they will have particular rights. Uh if you study ancient Islam, those people who were not under the uh uh beliefs or or faith-based system of the Muslims, they would still be a part of the nation, but they would pay the jizy tax and be represented in war and so on and so forth. So I think when we're talking about Islam, we're talking about the uh modern structure of how nations operate. And so the more sized temple of America is still under divine law, it's still a nation of Muslims. Yet we still have the uh political, social, and economic apparatus founded by Prophet Noble Juali as a body politic, not just as a uh, because the body politic then becomes the state, which represents the people, which are the nation, to interact with other states in this particular um structure here, especially in America. And I'll end here because of the separation of church and state. So uh a nation of Muslims themselves cannot interact with other states on uh in certain regard unless they establish a state, which is a juror entity that represents that society or nation with other states. And so um I think this is uh important for us to understand that bloodline, nationhood, uh, and consanguinity, and Jusali, which is uh birthright, uh born on the soil, which is national law, international law, and a part of divine law that uh nations use to operate today. And a good example of this is Iran. They're a nation of Muslims, but their nationality is Iranian, and their faith is Islam. They're a nation of Muslims, but they still have a nationality. You can go all around the world, you can go to Thailand, you can go to uh Sri Lanka, you can go to uh Indonesia, Malaysia, um uh places uh Nigeria, Mali, Ghana, and these are all nations of Muslims, they're all a part of the nation of Islam, yet they still have a nationality based on their pedigree and based on the soil. I yield.

Nations, States, And Modern Legitimacy

Stateless Nations And The Question Of Land

SPEAKER_03 25:26

Thank you, my brother. Uh, I I will submit for the general consumption, I and I hope and pray that I'm still uh dispelling the myth that the honorable Elijah Muhammad didn't address nationhood. But I will go to again my part of my opening that these current uh lines that are drawn on maps on continents, both in America, in the Americas, in Europe, and even in Africa, these are recent creations. There was no country called Iran uh 6,000 years ago, there was no country called Iraq 7,000 years ago, 5,000, 4,000 years ago. These are all recent uh recent creations. I submit to you that the whole earth was once called Asia and it was ruled by the original people. What was the religion of those original people? According to the honorable Elijah Muhammad, the religion of those religion original people was Islam. That is the nation. It is and has always been Islam. Now we identify different areas or territories. Hey, how do you get to uh how do you get to Persia? Because that's what Iran originally was called. How do you get to Persia? Uh how do you how do you get to uh Atlanta? How do you get so we had those distinctions for for travel, but this idea of separate states or separate countries is a very recent phenomenon. When I say very recent, I'm I'm saying within the last 6,000 years. So again, I'm gonna take a sidebar into secular definition of nation. Uh the secular definition of a nation, bear with me one second, awkward pause here, is a country considered as a body of people united by common descent, history, culture, language, inhabiting a particular area or territory. Uh, it also says it's a body of people having a common descent history, uh, and also an indigenous people or confederation of indigenous people. So what's key in there? It says that common history, culture, language, and it also said inhabiting a particular area or territory. Well, right there, see, you people and you people in North America, you can't be a nation. You have to be a members of the nation of America. That's wrong. That's why the honorable Elijah Muhammad had at our temple meetings what's called the actual facts board. We had the flag of two nations on that actual facts board. The flag of Islam, which is the flag of the nation of the righteous, and the flag of America, which represents the stronghold of the devil, the Caucasian people. Which one will survive the war of Armageddon? It's written on that flag. Those are the flags of two that represent two nations, and it represents the two nations that are involved in this final battle, this final war for our people, called the War of Armageddon. Well, now you say, Well, you nation of Islam folks, or you black Moslems, or you Moors, you don't have any land. So how can you be a nation? Ah I'm glad you asked that. I'm glad you said that. Whether you're a Moor or a nation of Islam and don't have any land currently, that does not disqualify you from being in a nation. Again, let's look at the secular description. People claiming nation status without land often fall into two categories stateless nations. Can you think of any stateless nations? I can. Two right off the top of the head are the Kurds and the Palestinians. They are actually stateless nations. They're not recognized by the so-called United Nations, which, yes, the brother is correct. Most of the United Nations are people of color, uh, original people, but they've locked them out of any being able to do anything significant by the nine nation member of the Security Council, which no major uh uh no major thing that the United Nations passed can can go through unless the nine members of the Inner Security Council let it go through. And that's why Africa is completely, and Asia and uh the Middle East are completely handcuffed by the uh by the UN, is because there's none of them that are a member of the nine nations uh security council. Uh what are some other ones? While stateless nations are defined by shared culture and history but lack territory, micronations are often personal projects. So let's look at some of these stateless nations. You have, in fact, the Kurds in Kurdistan. It would the if if Kurdistan was its own country, it would extend 193,000 square miles. You have to also have Rohingya. This is another stateless nation, meaning they don't have a physical land territory, and it's the largest uh refugee camp in Bangladesh. It's home to 600,000 Rohingya Muslims. You also have the Palestinians, which I've mentioned, and we see them in the news all the time. They do have some territory, although it is occupied territory by the criminal settler colony of Israel. They are still, in fact, a stateless nation, though they do display a flag, though that flag is not recognized by any of the what, and to use the brother uh Cosmo L's term, any of the current uh body politics that exist on the planet today. You've also got Roma, and these are more uh known as, and I don't mean to say a derogatory word. I didn't realize this was a derogatory word, but Roma are known as the gypsies. Uh they first first migrated from northern India in the 13th and 15th century into Europe. You also got the uh Hamong and the Karan and other ethnic minorities, such as in Thailand, these are at least five stateless nations. I submit to you, but they have a NA. I submit to you that we in America are anywhere from 20 to 60 million people, a nation trapped inside of a nation. Right in message to the black man, and on the back page of the Muhammad Speaks, we go into the wants and beliefs of the Muslims. What do the Muslims want? Well, one of the things that we want is we want freedom for all beliefs. We want uh we want our people in America whose parents or grandparents were descendants from slaves to be allowed to establish a separate state or territory of their own. Now, if that's not dealing with nationality, I don't know what is. That's why it baffles my mind that anybody would say that the honorable Elijah Muhammad didn't deal with statehood or nationhood, and then not only that, he gives us a flag to represent that nationhood. So I'm I'm I'm just really surprised that people actually say that the honorable Elijah Muhammad did not deal with nationhood. And I'm not saying any of this to disagree with what my brother Cosmo was saying. Uh I'm learning from him. I hope he's learning from me. I hope we're we're we're we are we are coming to a mutual understanding. Uh what we're doing is good. The whole the honorable Elijah Muhammad had a great respect for the work of Prophet Noble Juwali. And as I shared in the previous interview with Brother Ron, uh, the early foundation of the nation of Islam, a lot of the early foundation followers were former followers of Prophet Noble Juwali who came over and bore witness to the honorable Elijah Muhammad and began, became registered members of the nation of Islam, which has no birth record, by the way. And they he allowed them to continue to wear their fez. That's why you see the fez on a lot of those brothers. Those were people, brothers who came over from the Prophet Noble Juwali. And sometimes the messenger would don that fez because that's our original fez, too. The what the brother's wearing right now, that's our fez. It belongs to all of us by nature. So we ask the Caucasian, who was given a set time to rule, he was allowed to draw all these lines on the map, do his thing, and he'd unmessed up everything. And at the end, he said God was gonna come and give it back to the original owners. So before God comes and makes him give it back, we give him a program and say, Look, politely, give us a separate state or territory of our own that we can dwell in so that we are no longer a stateless nation. It must be fertile and minerally rich with access to a waterway that has access to the ocean, so that we can engage in international trade and commerce with other nations of the earth. Well, what if we not gonna do it? Then my God will kill you. Just like he killed Pharaoh for enslaving the children of Israel and taking away their nation, just like he killed Nebuchadnezzar for taking away the names and language of those people. And I will submit and learn some more from our brother.

Moorish Lineage: From Moors To “Negro”

SPEAKER_02 35:26

I um myself, I agree with you um that what Elijah Muhammad established in bringing uh a flag and bringing uh laws and things of that nature, it doesn't uh inhibit the ability of the NOI to organize um and and uh and to be a nation of people. I think so so that is that goes under what we were talking about, divine law, because your nation can be based on natural law, as in the Constitution of the United States of America, which recognizes inalienable rights. It can be based on divine law, which is revealed scripture and and prophethood, like as in the case of the honorable Elijah Muhammad. You can establish a nation around that. Um, and positive law, edicts and rulings. So I don't, I'm I'm not one of those that uh uh doesn't understand that one can establish a ecclesiastical uh government uh not unlike the Vatican or a like ecclesiastical government, uh not unlike the Moorish Science Temple of America. I've uh I think what we're when we talk the teachings of Prophet Nobu Juali specifically addresses nationality of those people known as Negroes, blacks, and colors. And that there were a nation of people prior to that, and they had a national name, and that national name was taken from them, and that national name was more, that national name was uh uh related to Morocco. Uh, and you can look back in history, and all these things can be verified. None of this is theology. Um, and but ones definitely have a right to organize around divine law or divine concepts, and this is totally legitimate. In fact, uh the prophet Noble Juali is the first to establish the body politic even before the Vatican. And but the crucial elements involved in this were related to uh establishing uh government that not only uh dealt with the divine side of things, because on the on the societal side of the more science temple of America, it's pretty much the same, deals in divine law. That's why we have a divine constitution and bylaws, not just a constitution. And the but in order to interact with other nations and with other states, the body politic was necessary to be established in order to carry out governmental functions. So, say, for example, uh creating birth records, um, creating uh um you know instruments uh that one needs to identify what nation they belong to, right? Um, and so as you create the uh the birth records and other documentation, school records, school IDs, records, all of these things, which um Elijah Muhammad was exceptional. And if you see the Moorish Americans have nationality card, the uh early nation of Islam had nationality card, identity and identification. But uh what the prophet is teaching is that the total salvation, the earthly salvation of so-called Negroes, blacks, and colors is to give back the chattel term. And I think where the Moors and the nation of Islam differ is the fact, so say for example, um even though the nation of Islam is a nation of Islam, if I were to ask you just a simple question, what is your nationality? What would be your answer? Islam, Islam. So then who are who is the Asiatic black man? Who are the black people? When we say uh when when ones in the nation say I'm black, right? Uh, as as in referring to identity, right? We say if your name, if your nationality is Islam, then that causes confusion, not amongst the nation of Islam, but amongst those outside of it, because Islam is an actual thing. And I'm not talking about the Arabian uh uh the uh uh the way it came to the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, in Arabia, because we know Islam goes all the way back. We know that we know Islam began when Allah said be, and it is the first thing that came into existence was a Muslim. The sun is a Muslim, the moon is a Muslim, the wind is Muslim, the ocean is Muslim because the definition of a Muslim. Is one who submits to Islam. And Islam is peaceful submission to the will of Allah. And so all of these things in creation that submit are all Muslim. They're all under Islam. But yet we do have a pedigree. And the pedigree is the is the is the part. The nationality is the pedigree. So when when one refer to themselves as black or back in the day, Negro or colored, this is what the prophet is speaking to in relationship of nationality, not that uh to take away from the nation of Islam and its autonomous right to uh even call themselves Islam. But historically, I haven't seen it. And uh many of the elders, when I was a young Muslim, uh and I had I was young, but I still had rank. So when I came through, I came through with soldiers. And we would often uh do uh co-security with the nation of Islam under the minister Louis Farrakhan. Well, well, well, there you go, right there. Well, hold on, hold on, Islam, hold on. Uh, when we I mean, aside of differences, there's difference, there's gonna be differences in that. But what I'm saying is, and I've dealt with Silas Mohammed, John Muhammad. I'm just speaking on the minister Louis Farrakhan at this point, and the Muslims. When uh we interact, um, and we talk about concepts of nationality, uh, and through throughout my studies of the teachings of the Elijah Muhammad, Elijah Muhammad, I've never seen him refer to any of the adherents and their nationality as being Islam. Now, the nation of Islam is the nation of Islam, and if you if you are a part of Islam, then you are a Muslim.

SPEAKER_03 42:27

So, brother, you just you you just said it right there. He called us the nation of Islam, Islam, nation of Islam, Islam, what's your nationality?

SPEAKER_02 42:40

Islam, however, Islam, a nation of of Islam, but those who practice Islam are Muslim. So that's that's that that's the definition, is what I'm saying. Correct. So that would make Muslim the nationality, not Islam, because those who are adherents of Islam are identified as Muslim, they're not identified as Islam, they're identified as those who practice Islam and and and are a part of the nation of Islam, but they're Muslim. So this is a religious concept, and it's totally fine, and it's nothing wrong with that. I'm what's what's a religious concept? What I'm saying is on the divine side, let me say divine concept as opposed to religious concept, but when it comes to the earthly concept of nationality, which has been the history, which has been the tradition throughout all of the faiths. Remember, Allah says in the Holy Quran of Mecca, and I can give you the exact verse if you want, that Allah created us in tribes, plural, and nations.

SPEAKER_03 43:53

Yes, I'm familiar with that.

SPEAKER_02 43:55

Not one nation, but nations, and so these are the nations that I'm referring to. And these are the nations you you mentioned earlier about Iran being Persia, and that's what it was originally called. However, they weren't Muslim in Persia, they were Zoroastrian. I mentioned Iran because can I ask you something real quick? Hold on one second. Let me finish this. Let me finish this concept. Don't take one minute. Okay. The Iran is the Islamic Republic of Iran, and they have that is a Muslim nation, whereas Persia was a Zoroastrian nation. So yes, it's a it's a new name and concept. However, it's honoring Islam as its national creed while understanding that you still have a geographical um uh borders and nationality in this time. So it doesn't take away from them being the Islamic Republic of Iran, but they still have a consanguinity and they still have a uh a nationality and they still have a birthright, even though they're all Muslims. They're operating the nation of Iran. And so this is what I'm referring to as Muslims. We can still operate nations in this modern time without it taking away from our identity of being Muslims. And this is the the the concept of nationality of giving back the chattel terms of black, negro, colored, and things that Moorish Americans are teaching. Uh, it's not in opposition to anyone having a a nation of Muslims or a nation of Islam, uh, so be it, because that is the right of any group of people under divine law. Peace.

SPEAKER_03 45:43

Is that a question? Well, two two questions. Are you familiar with the honorable Elijah Muhammad's statement saying that Islam is not a religion? Are you oh Islam?

SPEAKER_02 45:54

And that's why I changed it to divine. Islam is a way of life. This we know it is a way, which again leads back into nationality. If Islam is a way of life, then it being a nationality, a nationality is not a way of life, a nationality is the identification of the nation that you belong to.

SPEAKER_03 46:17

This is an identification, and I'm I submit to you that the nation of Islam is a direct identification of the nation that we belong to.

SPEAKER_02 46:27

I'm just going based on your definition. You said that the definition of Islam, according to the uh honorable Elijah Muhammad, is a way of life.

SPEAKER_03 46:36

So no, no, I didn't say that was the definition of Islam. I said Islam is not a religion, and I'm telling you, I didn't say it. All right, no, I said it.

SPEAKER_02 46:45

I thought you agreed with me when I said it. It looked like you were in agreement that yes, it was a way of life, the way you nodded your head. But my yes, yes, Islam is a way of life. It's all right.

SPEAKER_03 46:54

Well, it's not a it's not a set of rituals and prayers, and yes, Islam is a complete way of life. We call it a religion because most people don't understand that. Islam covers uh education, commerce, uh uh governing, government, everything you can think of, Islam covers it, not just prayers and the Prophet Muhammad and Allah and say Islam covers everything education, uh, grooming standards. Islam covers everything. I'm just very surprised that you've never heard the messenger uh address our nationality. No, I have, I agree with you.

SPEAKER_02 47:37

Islam it does cover everything, but nationality only covers one thing, and that's what we're talking about. We're talking about pinpoint nationality as what nationality is, because nationality is not education. You can educate on nationality.

SPEAKER_01 47:54

No, education is not nationality.

SPEAKER_02 47:55

Yeah, nationality is not government, nationality is not politics, though it is related to these things. Nationality is not religion, nationality stems from your bloodline of who your mother was, who her mother was, who her mother was, who now I see now.

SPEAKER_03 48:11

I see the I see the I see the disconnect now. I see the I see the misunderstanding. Yes, so your your net what your definition of nationality goes through the bloodline. Got it.

SPEAKER_02 48:23

I understand that it's not my definition of nationality, it's the definition of national, it's called consanguinity.

Flags, Identity Cards, And Governance

SPEAKER_03 48:30

No, I understand the definition of nationality that you're using descends through bloodline. Do you have another one? No, I'm gonna give you I'm gonna I'm gonna blow your mind a different way. All right, I'm going to submit to you through to you that though we know what our bloodline is in general, the lost found members of that nation of Islam who were cut off from that bloodline don't know the specifics of our bloodlines. I do, and I can prove it to you if you give me the time. Those who were brought in slavery. I I submit to you that those who were brought in slavery were cut off from that bloodline. Well, well, well, I don't I don't know your lineage, I don't know your family's history, but the families that were brought here in slavery, specifically by Sir John Hawkins in 15 and 55 on the good ship Jesus, they were cut off from their bloodline. They have no idea who their parents and grandparents were. They were I'm not talking about you specifically.

SPEAKER_02 49:31

No, I'm and and I'm glad you mentioned Sir John Hawkins and the good ship Jesus because through history and through language, we're able to trace our bloodline. Now, the thing about Sir John Hawkins and the good ship Jesus was he was awarded a banner for all of the uh I don't I don't know, I can't remember if it was Queen Elizabeth or whoever it was, I think it was Queen Elizabeth. He he addressed the royal families of Europe, Queen Elizabeth. And he was he was given a banner in honor of all of the slaves that he captured, and on that banner was a demi-more, which means a small more representing all of the people that he was capturing. And you could look this up, just look up the demi more given to Sir John Hawkins. So so that's first, that's number one. Number two, the word negro comes from the Spanish, and Spanish, uh, the lineage of this word negro.

SPEAKER_03 50:33

Uh that's why I said that's why he said so-called American Negro. So, but I and so I have no allegiance to that.

SPEAKER_02 50:41

That's what Muhammad had no allegiance to that word negro. But we can agree that when he said Negro, he was talking about the descendants uh that we're referring to, right?

SPEAKER_03 50:50

He said so-called American Negro. Because we're talking, we we have to address people who are not familiar with that history. And we have to use terminology, they understand.

Islam As Nation Versus Political Status

SPEAKER_02 51:01

He said so-called black in the early days as well. But but what I'm saying is, I'm identifying the population of people known as negroes. There's no debate who those people are, the ones the so-called Negro, there's no debate. So once we realize, well, because there was no negro up until a certain point that wasn't referred to, the Negro did not exist when the that's the basis of the teaching. We go when the Moors fell in Spain in 1492, those who could not ransom themselves and go back to Africa began to be forced into the religion of Christianity and began to be known as Moriscos. And these Moriscos would practice their faith in secret, and but they were still Moslem, but they had moved from Moor to Morisco. The later term, after they were fully Christianized, they were labeled Negro, and this is where the Negro began with these Moorish people, and these same Moorish people that Captain Sir John Hawkins was given a banner of a demi moor in chains, and at the bottom it says demi more. So demi meaning small, more, we already know what that is. And the same people that were known as Moors, uh, that the banner was given to Sir John Hawkins, the same people that were Moors that later became Moriscos that later became Negro, is the population known as Negro today. So if we trace it back linguistically, we can see where this word Negro came from and what actual people it referred to. And this is part of the teachings of what the prophet brought us. He didn't just whip it up in the closet and say, Hey, uh, let's call ourselves Moors. He gave us the historical data and the historical facts to trace our lineage, not only back to that time, but all the way back to the first inhabitants of Africa with Ham and Cush and the Moabites who inhabited the holy lands and migrated into Northwest Africa, which just so happened to be known as the slave coast. Now, who are who are Ham and Cush? No, no. What do you mean? Uh, the first inhabitants of Africa. Uh Cush was the first inhabitant, his father Ham. I'm speaking of in the lineage of the table of nations of the Bible at this point. Um, obviously, we know our record goes back further than then, but we're talking about because we're tracing our bloodline back to something, right? We're not just tracing it back to something abstract, we're tracing it back to something that we can vet, that we can actually go and show in records. Now, there's various historical names for Ham and Cush. We could get into that, whether you want to be Nubian, whether you want to say Kamite, whether whatever, whatever word you want to use. The prophet brought us the knowledge of ourselves right down to the name and and national name and our divine creed. And the Moors who were not brought over here had already come over to North America previously in ancient migrations. They were Moors known as Moors at that time. And so when we're dealing with nationality and bloodline, we're just dealing with the the definition of it as it relates to this new time of era that we are in right now, where the so-called black man, the so-called Negro, must give back the chattel terms and return to the name of his forefathers of all other nations. Now, that doesn't mean that a Moor can't be a part of the nation of Islam. That doesn't mean that someone in the nation of Islam can't recognize their nationality as Moorish. And it doesn't mean that it takes away from any of the teachings of Elijah Muhammad. A Moor could could join right now. Someone from the nation of Islam can come join uh or proclaim their nationality with the Moors, they would have to give back the chattel term, but everything else would be the same. And I don't think the chattel term is an integral part of the teachings because even in the early teachings, you lost me. What do you mean they would have to be? Even in the early teachings, the prophet uh or the or uh the uh messenger noble jewali used to say the so-called black man, and then later on it became uh the so-called got dropped off. It was the Asiatic black man, which brought it back to Asia, which is something that came over from the Moorish size temple of America.

SPEAKER_03 55:31

Let me ask you this where where where can we find these writings and what the prophet wrote and taught for us? Where where are these writings contained where somebody can go and check it for themselves? Prophet Nobu Jali? Yes.

SPEAKER_02 55:43

Oh, well, there's a book known as the Moorish Literature, and if you type in Moorish literature, you're gonna find it. And if you uh the holy Quran of the Moorish Science Temple of America, not to be confused with the Holy Quran of Mecca, which we have I have that I have that one. Yeah, I just want to make sure the listeners know we have the Holy Quran of Mecca's, our revealed word of God. The Holy Quran, the Holy Quran means that which is to be read. And so the Holy Quran of the Moorish Science Temple of America is something that Moorish Americans need because everyone else already got a nationality. So if you read in the back chapters, you'll get some of the ancient history. If you read the Moorish literature, you'll get the political, social, and economic history. And then uh these articles were taken from the Moorish Guide, which was the Prophet's newspaper, and uh there's a host of other um uh writings as well, uh, sayings of the prophets, so on and so forth. Uh, the best thing to do is just either go online or connect with the temple or or connect, you know, with me myself. Um we can build all day long, brother, off this chat and share knowledge. And if there's anything that I've said that you want reference to, if you just want to look deeper in the teachings, and uh, you know, I'm it it's not about uh being combative, as I was saying on the text earlier, it's about uh sharing and comparing. And uh coming from California, I know a lot of brothers and sisters, like you said, who uh rock with the nation. Uh Yusuf Bey, who had a bay on his name in Oakland, one of the famous Moors in Oakland.

SPEAKER_03 57:19

We used to many of the messengers ministers and followers had Bay as a name. Yeah, beyond the correct name he pronounced it according to the messenger. Um, you've you've gone for quite a while, brother. Is it is it okay if I get a little sure back to this about the messenger not addressing nation in the book? I and I had my wife help me research this. And the messenger, Messenger Elijah Muhammad is the literally the most documented quote unquote religious leader in history. I just have some of his books right here that are directly from his mouth and pen, some published directly by him, some transcribed and compiled by others, but but verified from him. And these are just about a third of the books that I have. In the book, The Flag of Islam, and my my wife, I had my wife just go do a cursory search for nation, national, national nationality. It says in the book The Flag of Islam, or actually, this is in the uh one of the early books, The Supreme Wisdom, the nation of Islam will live forever. There is no end to the black nation, Islam. And by black, we're not talking about the color in a crayol or crayon crayon box. Whatever that color is that you call out there in outer space where there's no sunlight and no starlight, that's what the definition of black is in supreme wisdom. That is the essence out of which our God, Allah, emerged from. For lack of a more appropriate scientific name that we can understand, we call it black, but it has nothing to do with a color. It is the absence of light that our God fought out of. So the nation is, so there is no end to the black nation, Islam, that nation is to live forever. But the so-called Negroes, again, so-called, because we got to we're talking to 1930 people, they don't know all these terms, they don't know it, and their slave masters know that they don't know it, and therefore have them deceived 100% again in the flag of Islam. The black man of America is prophesied in a symbolic way throughout the Bible and the Quran as the choice of God to produce a nation of gods. I I don't understand this thought process that people say the messenger didn't talk about nation and nationality. In the the root word of nationality is nation. So if the messenger is talking about nation, he in fact is talking about nationality again from the flag of Islam. He, Master Fraud Muhammad, is the power has the power over the heavens and the earth. And he called us a nation for the first time. This coincides with the Bible, which refers to him as making a nation out of us after he found us. Again, you say, Well, what is the nationality? I keep saying it's Islam. Well, it can't be Islam because Islam is a religion. Islam is codified. Islam covers everything, including a nation. The government that we have is Islam. Well, who are the officers of that government? Well, the foremost officer of that government is the messenger of Allah, the honorable Elijah Muhammad. I would ask, and this is just a this is a rhetorical question. I don't want to answer right now, but what nation was uh Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, of 1400 years ago? What nation was he a member of? We are a member of the original Asiatic nation found here in the wilderness of North America. Head of the government, messenger Elijah Muhammad. But what are the what are some of the officers of the government here in the lost found part? Minister. Minister is the definition of minister is not just a pastor, somebody who totes a Bible Quran and gives a sermon. A minister is an envoy, an emissary who speaks with the nations of the earth. Many of Messenger Elijah Muhammad's ministers, in fact, did just that going around receiving uh being received as diplomats. Messenger Elijah Muhammad was received as a diplomat. Messenger Elijah Muhammad on his speech in Washington, DC, in was it 59 or 56 or 64? The president sent him a motorcade that is a motorcade only sent for heads of state. The president doesn't send motorcades fit for heads of state unless a head of state is coming into his city. And that was done for the honorable Elijah Muhammad. Because the Caucasian recognizes that we are, some of the Caucasians will openly recognize, they know in their secrets, they will openly recognize that we are in fact a nation, but we are a stateless nation at this time. And they would like many of them would like to make us a nation, but they're fearful of their other brothers who might kill them for doing anything good or anything for the so-called once slave, like they did Kennedy and like they did Abraham Lincoln. So I mean, I hope I'm really touching on some of the finer points that were right actually right in front of our faces. Where Messenger Elijah Mohammed did, in fact, address our nationality, our nationhood, nation of Islam.

Reconciling Faith Identity With International Norms

SPEAKER_02 1:03:02

Islam. All I would say is I think we just need to maybe go deeper into nation, state, government, because nationality doesn't come from the government. Um you are the the a government is an entity used by a nation to administrate affairs. And so um I'm like I said, uh I think it's important to look at at what the messenger said. And as he said, nation, nation is the root word in nationality. Um yet there is a uh a standard definition of what nationality is, and it's it's it doesn't just begin with the so-called white man, it's our people who establish the bloodline rights, it's our people who establish birth rights and tracing the bloodline and so uh for the purpose of inheritance and for the purpose of uh uh to endogamy to make sure that we're not intermarrying with the proper people. You know, uh, you know, if we're all the same people, then eventually you're gonna get deformities, just like the and and you and you see them and you see them. So there has to be um diversity in nations and diversity in tribes in order to uh bring about something that is gonna be uh uh that's gonna be viable even living upon this earth. So um I don't I don't disagree with anything that you are saying because it's it's divine law from uh you all's body, and everyone uh through religious tolerance is um is is entitled to all of these things. Uh and uh again, I don't think Islam is a religion. You know, I know it as a way of life, I know it as uh being a perfect program of life, and I'm focusing on one thing. Everything you're saying is fine, uh uh as far as metaphysically, when it comes to the universe and all of that in relationship to black. Uh when we use the term uh uh black or so-called black and negro, we're only referring to a political status that was created by the so-called white man, the European, in order to disenfranchise people from the knowledge of themselves. So um the black carbon atom, you know, the the the uh uh black matter in the outer space and our relationship to that, and all of these things are wonderful, and I'm not in opposition to them at all, and I actually go pretty deep off into them myself. But when it comes to political status, this is the only part we're talking about, political status. Then uh nationality is a particular thing, and it's through these chattel terms that they have disenfranchised us while we're uh people under those terms are considered second-class citizens and get all of the and stateless and receive all of the abuses that stateless people and people that are second-class citizens receive. So um again, it doesn't contradict any of those teachings. We're dealing with political status specifically, and put and this is something that was not addressed by uh the honorable Elijah Muhammad. This is something that was brought by the Prophet Noble Juali specifically to end the chattel slavery that came after the physical bondage. And it uh so I think that's where we have to understand uh words can mean many things. What what specific what's specifically what specifically wasn't addressed by the honorable Elijah Muhammad? What I'm saying is nationality and political status in this country and changing that political status from second-class citizenship to full human being, no longer three-fifths of a human being, and addressing returning that and keep in mind when I say this, the chattel terms of Negro, black, and colored that were placed upon them to disenfranchise them from their bloodline. So we're dealing with the political, uh, social, and economic chattel term that is used until this day to disenfranchise people from their actual bloodline on this planet from their early.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:40

It doesn't take away how did the messenger not address that?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:44

You said the messenger didn't address that. All right, say, for example, in R101s and our 101 questions for Moorish Americans, says what is your nationality, Moorish American. All right, it more we are uh Americans. You have consanguinity and juice sally, your bloodline, Moorish, and the soil that you're born on, American. We we were Americans before the European even got here. This America didn't start with them, that's the United States, it's two different things. So being on the soil is your it you have birthrights to the land, and your bloodline, which is the word that comes before it, let you know what type of American you are. Uh, and so when when we're referring to that, we're referring to political society. And when was when was America established?

SPEAKER_03 1:08:35

You America, the America that you're talking about. When you say Morse America and you're saying the landmass, uh God established that when the landmass was created, brother.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:47

So God named it America. Did God create the earth? No, no, I'm not talking about the name America. That that's that's that's what I'm asking. That's what I'm asking. America comes from our forefathers in ancient times, derived from the word myrrh, which goes all the way back to Kimmet. So that's another relation of the word Myrrh.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:07

I would so approximately when was that this the that the land that well you're you in Hawaii, you you you live you live in your best life for the rest for the rest of us here on the 48. When was this called America?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:24

I can tell you it was called prior to the European coming here when it was Asiatic uh uh groups of people living here. Now, as far as the exact date, I do not know that. Not exact. I'm just I'm just asking approximate.

Closing Reflections And Unity

SPEAKER_03 1:09:39

I do not know that. Okay, all praise to I I brother, I appreciate that answer. I'm not gonna make up an answer.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:49

You know how many people will. I know some people will, yeah. All praise, but but the government and the landmass is two different things. Um, and we find the word in our in our language traced all the way back to Kemet when it was actually placed upon it. The same myrrh in America is where the myrrh, uh where more comes from, that myrrh. We speak in English, we say more. But the same myrrh in America, the same more in Morocco and the Marr in Mauritania are all our people's words. Uh, some people say even say it comes from the color of myrrh itself, is which why the earth was called myrrh. And so you'll find a lot of land masses with myrrh in it. Uh, but however, I don't know that as a fact. I just want to drive home the point that when we're talking about the chattel terms, we're talking about something that was created and put on our records as our prophet teaches us in 1774, placed on our records in 1779, and during uh 1779 to 1865, chattel slavery, which has bearing on the political, social, and economic static of the people under that term. Now, whether it's used another way uh and uh with endearment amongst our people and amongst our uh nation and other areas, then that's another thing. But when we deal with nationality and political, social and economic status, the prophet said we need to give these terms back in relationship to that, and so that is something that one can process and uh you know look at for themselves.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:27

Is brother Ron still with us?

SPEAKER_04 1:11:29

I'm here, I'm here, I'm right here. I've been here the whole time just doing the knowledge.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:33

So uh have I have I been addressing the the misnomer, the fallacy that the honorable Ajama didn't address nationality or nationhood? Am I answering that question? I think when you first said it, I was shocked that anybody even would even think that.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:50

I think you are, but as far as nationality as it pertains to uh uh uh bloodline, landmass, and a flag, I think that's where the brother Cosmo L is trying to explain.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:03

Well, again, bloodline as the the bloodline of the original lost found tribe of Shabbaz was cut off during the slavery period. Otherwise, the our if it wasn't cut off, we would know where we came from, we would know who our people are, and our people would know who we are and where we were. Nobody knew where we were for 400 years. We were literally lost in fulfillment of the divine prophecy of both the holy Quran and the Bible. We were taken to the Carib Isles first, and that's where we were broken. Some 64 years, which is almost uh over two generations of people were cut off, cut off from everything language, names, everything. We had no by the time they were finished with us in the in the Carib Isles, we had no idea who we were, where we came from, or who our ancestors were. And the brother's right. We we we're we're we're marrying people, and you you see a lot of genetic defects and genetic disorders in a lot of our people, which is not normal because we may be marrying very close relatives and not even know it. We were cut off from all this during the slavery period. Take it and let it alone. That's what God taught Messenger Elijah Muhammad. Um, as far as the the flag, I mean, how many flags you need? Now, if you're looking for a name, we should name our country Morocco, we should name our country Egypt, we should name our country. Those names didn't exist prior to 6,000 years ago. None of them. Those names of those countries did not exist prior to 6,000 years ago, nor did those lines on the map exist. They were drawn by the Caucasian people.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:47

Islam, I would just say all of what you said is true, but however, according to more science, all we we did not know who we were until Allah sent us a prophet. And Allah sent us a prophet by the name of Prophet Nobu Juali who returned to us the knowledge of ourselves, as I so uh uh shown where the origin of the word Negro, and when you talk about the good ship Jesus and the demi more that was given to him to represent those who he was catching, and so it is through the knowledge of Prophet Nobu Juali giving us this word more that a treasure trove of history is just laying there for anybody who wants to find it to be able to identify what was the national name of the population known as Negro prior to 1779. Now, I don't not talking about the whole planet. Uh, the prophet came to us in North America and he was teaching us who we were now. Um, and again, this is verified through history, it's verified through language, and it's it's uh only an hour of study one can find that uh we are definitely indeed descendants of those people who were known as Moors. The people who wore these feathers were Moors. It was uh the the king this name, this is named Fez is named after the Fez in Morocco, that's where it comes from. But Morocco, uh the Fez in Morocco was named after ancient Fezania, which this modern-day Libya, which goes back to the Garamantes, which are the so-called Adamites, right? And I'm not talking about their Adamite, uh, because when you look on the walls, you won't see them, you'll see us. And these are uh civilizations that go back for thousands of years. Prophet Noble Juali taught us our flag is over 10,000 years old. So we're a particular people. Uh it's not applicable for everybody. Um, however, universally, we're able to come together as Muslims under Islam and bond together no matter what tribe or nation we come from. But we are a particular people, and we Marsh Americans, descendants of the Moors.

unknown 1:15:57

All right.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:58

So says our problem.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:00

Again, I was just this this actually came off of a sidebar that myself and brother Ron had during the last interview, and he shared with me this, and I was just shocked that people what the messenger didn't address nationality. That was it, it was like listening to when he said that, I was like, it was like a non-sequitur. It just it didn't make sense to me when everything he writes all throughout his writings is talking about nation, us being a nation, us being the government, us us being the originators of the planet, us giving everyone else civilization. Well, who else does that but a nation? Nations are not so much what uh people think they are in today's terms. Nation is also a synonym for race. America is a homo, excuse me, a heterogeneous nation, it got all kinds of races in it, multicultural. That is not national government, it's like that is a that is a late development on the planet.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:00

Let me ask you this. You said that the the the prophet taught nationality, where in our teachings it says, What is your nationality, Moorish American? Is there anything in your teachings where the prophet addresses not just nation, but brothers and sisters, your nationality is this?

SPEAKER_03 1:17:19

I can't think of a place where he says in that quote in though the order of those words, your nationality is Islam. But again, I go back, it's right in the name, nation of Islam. If you're a member of the nation of Islam, what's your nationality? Nation of Islam, Islam, it's right in the name, and all right, Islam. He came and established us as a nation. That's what he said that God did.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:47

Can you show me where the messenger says your nationality is Islam? The nation of Islam. No, no, that's the nation. I'm talking about nationality. Okay, brother.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:01

I uh well nationally and nationality are the same word. Uh actually, one it's a root of the same word. So if if you're if your nation is Islam, then the person who's a member of that nation, their nationality is Islam. If if if the nation is America, the person who's a resident of that nation is an American. If the nation isn't it be Islamian? If the nation is Egypt, if the nation is Egypt, then the person who's a member of that nation, the nation of Egypt, Egypt, the person who's a member of that nation is an Egyptian. If the nation is Islam, then the person who's a member is their national is Islam.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:44

Is it Islam or Islamian? Because all the other ones you said had a I A N on the back.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:49

I uh Islam, Islamian, whatever it's the same word. We're we're we're talking in English, which is not even a descriptive enough language to deal with this. I'll give you that. And that's why I say it's the same word. Nation and nationality are the same word. All right, the root of it is the same.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:06

You can't put you on that, but I understand how you're drawing it from that. I'm not, I see how you how you're drawing it from it.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:14

But yes, I will try to I will fight tooth and nail with anybody who said, and not not physical fight, but anybody who said the messenger didn't address nation, they obviously can't read nation of Islam everywhere throughout all these books, all it's talking about is the original nation, and that we are members, we are the lost members of that original Asiatic nation.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:37

Brother, I think he's addressing nationality as it as it pertains to international law.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:44

I I'm not sure what that means, brother.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:46

I'm just talking about nationality in general. I mean, I think I think, like I said, I understand what he's drawing, and and in the in the beginning of this, when you're talking about divine law, all of that is on point. Uh, but when we're dealing with the political status, it's just like you said, if someone is from I'm not sure what the political status is or who is the author of the political status.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:07

All I know is that God came and declared us a nation. Once God declares us a nation, I don't care what anybody else says, it is officially Trump. All right, whether they know it or not. Now, if they willingly submit to it, good for them. But if they don't, the messenger teaches us that our God has the power to destroy. Destroy them and to put us back into our rightful place.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:33

And you're entitled. That is that is personal belief. I'm uh not necessarily dealing with uh belief, I'm just dealing with uh the actual facts of political status, nationality, and birthright as it pertains to modern-day nations right now, which is derived as I've shown earlier from uh the table of nations, which is in the Bible. You can go through and and look in Genesis, uh, the table of nations. In fact, the Moabites at one point were kicked out of the table of nations and came back in through the line of Ruth. And so this is very so bloodline is very important to the Moorish Americans, and um, and uh it was it was uh bloodline was very important to the ancients, and uh because they place honor and title on families, they place honor and titles on family names, you know. Um, and uh it's just like you said, Egyptian from Egypt, uh, but it's Egyptian, you know. The nation, the the the the word that of the nationality is going to be a derivative of the nation, but it's not gonna be the name of the nation itself, right? So it's gonna be a derivative, just like you said, Egypt, Egyptian, Iranian, Iranian. So if anything, of nation of Islam, it would be Islamian. Okay, Islamic.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:53

It's the same word, brother. It's the same word, Islamian. I never heard that word before. Islam, Islamian, Islamic, it's the same word. Praise Allah.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:05

All right. Uh, I hope I hope you guys got a lot out of this build right here. I did. If you didn't, well, if you didn't rewind, rewind, rewind. Thank you, brothers, for coming up and building with us this evening on nationality and birth rate. Uh, if you want to uh say anything, you got the floor.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:26

Islam, I just want to say honors to you, brother Kevin Ali, Minister Kevin Ali. I appreciate your candor. I appreciate you know uh the way that you dealt with me in this conversation, and honors to you, my brother.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:38

Brother, I I'm just honored to be uh amongst righteous brothers such as yourself who are willing to have a uh be able to disagree and but not be disagreeable, to be able to understand, to be able to share information, share ideas, exchange ideas. You know what? I never looked at it that way. I saw it's it's it's this is this is nothing but brotherhood. Uh, this is what our messenger, the honorable Elijah Muhammad, did he met with whoever, whoever was about putting our people back on top. He said, let us come together and let's figure out a way that we can do this, let's work together for for the benefit of our people. So I'm very thankful to yourself for coming, and I'm very thankful to Brother Ron for even inviting us and uh having us come out.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:23

Indeed, indeed. Thank you for the chat for coming out this evening. Appreciate y'all. Uh, and for those who deal with this, happy new year.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:35

Yeah, happy new year. Peace. Islam, salaam alaykum.