The Black Indigenous Claim Examined | Truth, Lies & Evidence

A good story can lift us up—or mislead us. We take on the rising “Black Indigenous” claim head-on and lay out why identity built on myth weakens movements, while identity grounded in evidence strengthens community, strategy, and solidarity. From the jump, we connect biography to purpose: years of reading, organizing, and media work inform a tough but necessary breakdown of what the data say and what history shows.

We walk through the receipts. Genetic studies consistently point to a strong West and Central African ancestry profile for African Americans, with smaller European and, in some cases, minor Native American percentages. Culture tells the same story: okra and rice cultivation, gumbo, the banjo’s lineage, Hoodoo and Vodou traditions, cowry shells on graves, and the names we chose for our own institutions—Mother Bethel AME, African Lodge, Africatown. If a lineage is real, it leaves language, rites, and foodways behind. If it’s imagined, it leans on vibes and vague memories. We also separate real archaeology from internet rumor: Clovis and pre-Clovis links to Siberia map the peopling of the Americas far earlier than the transatlantic slave trade, and none of that evidence supports the idea that African Americans are Indigenous to North America.

We tackle the sources that keep confusion alive. Myth-forward books, selective quotes, and viral clips rarely survive contact with peer-reviewed research or basic scientific literacy. Out-of-Africa isn’t a casual guess; it’s a robust, testable framework spanning genetics, fossils, and migration models. Even popular narratives like Roots—disputed or not—don’t change the material record of how people were taken, transported, and made to labor. Pan-Africanism, then, isn’t what “makes” someone African; it’s a political response to imperialism, capitalism, and the need for coordinated power across the African diaspora.

The payoff is practical. When we clear the fog around identity, we can focus on what works: service, organizing, media with spine, and alliances that travel from the block to the global South. If extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence, movements demand ordinary courage—food drives, coat drives, honest study, and a refusal to build strategy on fantasy. Subscribe, sh

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:10

All right, what's going on, everybody? Out there is Ron Brown, LMT the People's Fitness Professional, alongside my brother, Wise the Dome TV. It's Rakim, right?

SPEAKER_02 0:26

Yeah, yeah, Rakim Shabazz.

SPEAKER_01 0:28

Rakim Shabazz, Rakheem Shabazz. Why do I think Raheem?

SPEAKER_02 0:32

Because my cousin Shabazz, too.

SPEAKER_01 0:34

And my cousin name is Raheem. So Rakim is in the building. We're talking about the Black Indigenous claim examine truth, lies, and evidence. I had to bring the brother on because, you know, he he's not that with the pretendi and shit. So first off, you know, I want to let people know who you are. I want you to give, you know, uh intro, introduction to who you are, you know, and what you're about and um your travels. You know, I don't know if you, of course, you watched this show before, but we always take people through the history first and then we go into the bill.

Host Background And Media Work

SPEAKER_02 1:13

Yeah, for sure, for sure. So uh yeah, uh, I'm the host of Wise Dome TV. It's a podcast dedicated to the black experience, whether it's art, culture, politics, history, um, you know, we strive to cover it all. Um, I'm also one of the hosts on the Rise Up International Morning Show on Black Power Media. You can check us out there. Um, I am also one of the hosts uh with Dr. Gilmore on uh algorithms of empire on the University of Toronto's Center of Ethics YouTube channel. Uh that uh we discuss philosophy, technology, and counterinsurgency and how that uh you know affects us domestically and the global south. And so, yeah, you know, um, man, I've been always someone who has been uh into the books and into our history, into our culture, into you know, our politics, you know, growing up, been inspired by uh like the people that I saw on TV, such as uh, you know, Dr. Khaled Muhammad and uh you know Farrakhan, Sister Soldier. We saw, you know, like when they used to be on Donahue, uh deruba bin Mah.

SPEAKER_01 2:33

Oh man, you're bringing it back, bro. Yeah, you know, so right.

SPEAKER_02 2:39

So I was I'm I was that kind of that changed my life, you know what I'm saying? And so high school, I began to read Garvey and Du Bois and Elijah, and you know, I just never stopped. And um, even whenever I kind of uh I guess went through a period where I somewhat lost myself, that was always still my foundation. That's how I was able to uh get back on track or whatever. And so uh yeah, you know, I created Wise of Dome TV because I have these conversations offline all the time anyway. So I was like, yo, it'd probably be dope to uh to you know just record these conversations, and uh the people responded, the people uh seemed to appreciate it. And so yeah, I you know that's what I do. Also, I would like to just say uh, you know, shout out to uh a couple of the uh a few of the brothers that uh you know I researched things with. Uh that's uh my brother Malik, Carlos, uh Olu, Hero, uh, those are my brothers, uh, Ngosi. Um, and uh everybody who's doing the real work, shout out to you, uh, brother Ron for your channel and the invite. Um, you are traveling at terrific speeds. The growth on this channel is is crazy. Um, and so obviously you're doing something right. And uh again, I appreciate the invite.

SPEAKER_01 4:05

Thank you, thank you. So now you grew up where?

Southern Roots And Community Activism

SPEAKER_02 4:09

Uh yeah, yeah. I grew up in uh well, half and half, Durham, North Carolina, and uh in uh Grand Prairie, Texas. And so uh I spent half of my life in in Durham, half of my life in Texas. Uh in Texas is where I learned a lot of uh the ins and outs of uh boots on the ground work uh with brothers like uh Baba Meen and Lone Star RBG and all those brothers. Also uh the gods of earth uh in Sudan, which is or Devon Allah uh my educator, I got be a law, and uh just the uh whole cipher there. And so, yeah, you know, half half in Durham, half in uh Grand Prairie.

SPEAKER_01 4:50

All right, all right.

SPEAKER_02 4:51

I'm a southern I'm a southern cat.

SPEAKER_01 4:53

Got you, got you. Peace, double the pleasure, double the fun, peace, peace, peace, peace, peace to the god. So now uh you said boots on the ground. So basically, you were out there. Uh, I want to call it maybe community activism. Want to call it that?

SPEAKER_02 5:08

Yeah, just you know, uh I was never the organizer, I was adding on to those who were organized, or whatever they needed, you know. I would add on. You know what I'm saying? Whether it be coat drives, school drives, uh, you know, lectures.

Building Community Through Basic Service

SPEAKER_01 5:22

You know what I'm saying? That's what I'm talking about, bro. Like, like this is I I don't know if you ever saw pictures of me uh out there, yeah. Okay, okay, okay, giving out food and all of that. This is what I want to do. I'm just letting everybody know with this platform is if I don't with this thing, if when this thing grows to where it needs to be, we're doing bouncy houses, all of that. All the the the basics, the basics of reaching out to the community like they've been doing over the years, you can still do that. It's it's it's it's basic stuff, passing out food, uh, uh, uh, talking to young people on the corner, whatever, like the all the basic stuff. Uh, oh, yeah, food drives, what else, what else, what else? Uh clothing drives, uh, uh back to school. Um, even though, you know, uh none of us really celebrate, or I don't celebrate Christmas. Uh, I'm sure you don't. But at the same time, we can give out toys at that time for the babies and stuff like that. We need to get back to doing that, and that could pull in people who actually want to listen to what you have to say, and you can pull them into your temple, your mosque, or the law school, whatever it is, your idea. Anyway, absolutely. I don't know. That that gets my that gives that gets me going. But anyway, yeah, but anyway, uh, so boots on the ground, you were doing your thing. Um, and then uh you were taught by you you said you're enlightener. I got I gotta be a law, yeah. I gotta be a law. Yeah, okay. Now, now the way you come across, right? It's it's like we're like, man, how can I explain this? Alikes. We're definitely we're we're definitely Alikes. It doesn't seem like they seem like it because I'm not like, you know, black power, you know what I mean? Um, I like to, you know what I mean, kind of play the new truth and and and and and and you know, look at the scene or whatever. But um uh how where did you get that spirit from? That pan-Africanist spirit.

Knowledge Of Self And Pan-Africanism

SPEAKER_02 7:31

Well, you know, I I would it's interesting because uh, you know, knowledge itself, I like to say, uh tells you who you are. Uh political education tells you what needs to be done. And so when it comes to pan-Africanism, it was just a natural evolution in my own studies, right? Uh a free Africa means a free diaspora, right? Um, we are living in a time um where Western imperialism is on full blast in front of everybody's face, the resources are being stolen right under the ground from in the global south, as we can see what's happening in Venezuela right now. Um, and so Pan-Africanism and its many forms seeks to address these issues, right? We can't we're not gonna just say the black man is God our way into some into a different world, right? Like it uh we have to have real political analysis, real political education so we can understand what's happening better and so we can fight what's happening better.

SPEAKER_01 8:41

Okay, exact uh uh uh I don't know, okay. Real quick about that, I don't really like to do a whole lot of explaining, but I'm gonna explain what I just said. Now, the neutral piece, what I just said, neutral is good for me. It's just a word right now, right? On the media uh um platform. However, let's just say I'm universal. Let's just do that. All right. So now um now I want to go right into why are you so passionate about uh so-called black folks talking about you know being indigenous and things of that nature.

The “Indigenous Black” Claim Framed

SPEAKER_02 9:27

Okay, so I don't know if it's necessarily that I'm extremely passionate about it. Uh I I would say I'm extremely irritated by it. Because for yeah, for one, um it's escapism, it's a form of colonial escapism, it's a form of magical thinking, and it takes us away from being solutionary and uh attacking the real issues that we have, the real issues that we face, white hegemony, western imperialism, capitalism, right? We can't organize under a false pretense. First, you have to know who you are to at least understand what happened to you, right? And if you can't agree and understand that you are an African, right? You are African brought over here at the bottom of slave ships, right? Then you're not gonna understand or have the proper context on where we are and why we are uh in this position and condition that we're currently in. So it's just a waste of time. It's leading our people down uh no a no-end street. It's it's it's it's uh again, like I said, it's magical thinking, it's colonial escapism. It's the same thing as somebody who uh instead of uh you know who succumbing to the system and drinks every day, somebody who just has to have that escape. And so we create these mythical origin stories where we uh, you know, to make ourselves feel better. You know, for some reason, a lot of these brothers and sisters are ashamed uh to be African, right? Uh, because as we know what happened to us, and we know the condition that we're in here in America, and so they don't want to be on the quote unquote losing team. But instead of again organizing, playing your part in the fight and the global struggle for uh, you know, pan-Africanism and and and black uh self-determination, you make up mythical origin stories about you know being Hebrew, being uh Native American, being descendants of Anunnaki. It's all it's all leading us away from what we really need to be on.

SPEAKER_01 11:37

Okay, okay. So I'm gonna ask you this question. What about, you know, back in the days, I got Indian in my family?

“Indian In My Family” Examined

SPEAKER_02 11:46

Um obviously, you know, that's something that they like to say a lot. Uh, they like to say that their grandmother uh told them that. Uh but the interesting thing is their grandmother never uh passed down any indigenous retentions to them. They don't speak any indigenous languages, they don't cook any indigenous foods, they don't celebrate any uh uh indigenous uh quote-unquote holidays, they don't have any of the culture of indigenous people, but their grim mother told them that they're indigenous, right? Um, I think a lot of it comes from how our people were taught about Africa, Africa having no history, Africa being the land of the savage, Africa being the land of the brute, right? And so, in order to escape sometimes uh physical persecution, you know, we began to again create mythical origin stories, one, to make ourselves feel better, and two, in hopes that the European would get his foot off of our neck. Uh but at the end of the day, you know, there are, you know, some people who have uh, you know, it's not a it's not a it's not a large percentage, I will say, but it is some people who have some Native American ancestry. But if you, you know, there they may have 5%, 6%, uh, which is on the high end, according to all the genetic studies that you'll find, right? But even if you have 5% uh Native American ancestry, uh, for the most part, on average, African Americans have 73% African American, I mean African ancestry, right? And so that's not gonna take you having a you may have an African grandparent, I mean a Native American grandparent somewhere. You may have one, but you got like the rest of your grandparents is African. What about them? You know what I'm saying? And so again, you know, a lot of it is just myths that we told ourselves because of the condition that we were put in. Uh, and and you know, those got passed down. Um, but again, everybody's grandma didn't say that. You know what I'm saying? Everybody's grandma didn't tell them that they were Native American, right?

SPEAKER_01 14:01

Indeed. So I I've taken a uh a DNA test and all that stuff, uh and ancestry.com, and I've also done 23 in me. I'm African, bro.

SPEAKER_02 14:16

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 14:17

West and Central African to be in that right, exactly. So now uh have you taken those uh uh uh DNA tests?

DNA Tests And African Ancestry

SPEAKER_02 14:26

Yes, I did uh the one I took was uh it was NetGeo had one about five years ago, and so uh I took that one. Unfortunately, uh Nat Geo's results uh are no longer available on online because they shut down their DNA testing thing, I guess. But uh yeah, mine came out like West of Central African. I mean, that's what I expected, right? Um, but you know, I probably I probably take one with uh Ancestry.com just due to the fact that I do a lot of my uh family history on um Ancestry.com, and that'll also be a good way to connect with uh uh you know family that I haven't met, possibly family on the continent, and re and connect some of those dots within my family tree.

SPEAKER_01 15:16

Okay, so what about uh what about this, right? So uh who is the original man? The original man is the Asiatic black man to make it the owner, cream of the planet Earth, Father Civilization, God of the universe, right? That degree, and how you know, basically um we're the we're the original people, so we've been everywhere on the planet. So so it would make sense that we would be indigenous to this planet because we were here before anyone else. What do you think about that idea?

SPEAKER_02 15:44

Yeah, that doesn't make sense. Okay, um, it does not mean that all right, so we have to get out of this thing of, and I know we say this a lot, right? Uh that we are the original man, which we are, obviously, but this idea that we populated the entire planet, and in a sense, it's not incorrect, right? Um when we look at the out of Africa migrations beginning 65 to 75,000 years ago, we began to populate the planet. But nobody that says this asks themselves what happens to a people genetically, you know, when they encounter new environments for thousands of years, right? Whenever they uh have new diets for thousands of years, experience genetic bottlenecks for thousands of years, right?

SPEAKER_01 16:41

Genetic bottlenecks.

Original Man, Migration, And Genetics

SPEAKER_02 16:42

Yeah, and so that means like let's say you have a group of people who migrate from one place to a place that's not inhabited by anybody. Those people begin to mate with each other and pass on those genetics without any outside influence genetically from anyone. That's the genetic bottleneck, they're just uh re-reproducing and recreating with each other, you know, transferring those same genes, the expression of those same uh SNPs. And so, yeah, you know, uh in one sense we did populate the entire planet, right? But uh that does not mean that uh over time these people are the same people that originally uh left Africa, right? You would have to explain, you know, why we have white people, why we have uh what we call you know Asian people, uh Indigenous American, uh, you know, people in Indigenous in uh well, indigenous to the Americas, people in um uh Australia, right? Um, you know, you would have to uh account for this, right? And so another thing uh to expose that uh falla fallacious way of thinking, um our ancestors were brought here, the first Africans reached uh North America in 1526. They uh, from what we know, they escaped, ran into the woods, we don't know what happened to them. Later, obviously, we have the 20 and odd that came to Jamestown, Virginia in 1619, right? And so this is a recent event in the grand scheme of human history.

SPEAKER_01 18:27

Right.

Clovis Evidence And Siberian Links

SPEAKER_02 18:28

We just got to America, we did not evolve into a new people, right? This whole idea of the original man populated the whole planet, so I'm indigenous to Europe, I'm indigenous to uh Asia, I'm indigenous. No, your ancestors were brought here recently from Western Central Africa, which is why, whenever you take a DNA test, it tells you autosoma in your autosomal breakdown that you are Western Central African, right? You may have some European admixture, but we uh all know why. You know what I'm saying? Uh the plantation rate that we experienced, uh, you know, so that's to be expected as well. But uh any genetic study that you will find will show you that uh African Americans have uh uh 73 percent at least uh uh Western Central African uh genetics. And when we say Western Central African genetics, just meaning that we have uh genetic affinities and similarities to those in the places where we were kidnapped from, West and Central Africa.

SPEAKER_01 19:40

Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. Makes a lot of sense. So now, so you so you would say we're not related to the Aborigines of Australia.

Africanisms In America: Culture And Faith

Foodways, Language, Music, And Burial

Scholarship, Sources, And Roots Myth

Abu Bakr II And Extraordinary Claims

Evolution, Out Of Africa, And Science

SPEAKER_02 19:49

I mean, we're not genetically, but in a pan African sense and uh and a decolonial sense, obviously those are our brothers and sisters in the struggle, but genetically we're not related. to do okay okay so even even though in the seventh degree in the one of fourteen talks about uh uh why does the devil call our people african and at the end of at the end of it it talks about it says uh he wants us to think that we are all different basically we're all this we're all one family black family no doubt no doubt first off i would like to say uh peace to my brother uh supreme seven in the chat uh that's my that's my family peace to the gods in earth since sudan as well um all right so uh one thing that we also have to if we're gonna take if we're gonna talk about the lessons in uh most honorable um you know he asked what the population uh was in the original nation of north america he broke it down that it was 17 million right and all over the planet earth 4 billion 400 million million right 17 million were the ones who came over here uh in the transatlantic slave trade right 2 million were the ones who uh walked the Bering Strait from Siberia uh 23,000 years ago and so he said that they are both original people but he obviously shows that they have different origins right um I think that's what we have to understand when we start using terminology like original people it doesn't mean that we are all the same genetically it means that we are all original to the land masses that we uh inhabited you know what I'm saying and so in our sense we are Africans that were brought here I mean that's what the 136 is telling you that story right like he's telling you the story of the transatlantic slave trade right um and another thing that uh people whenever they uh I'd be stand with 120 i i would i'd say or or with what the most honorable Elijah Mohammed taught um a lot of times they don't or they forget to mention that although he used the term Asiatic to describe us in message to the black man he said that we are Asiatic from the continent of Africa right that's what he said and so again that term Asiatic and why it was used back in those days that's a whole nother show uh that we could have uh but um yeah you know again like so if we wanted to just stay with the what the most honorable Elijah Muhammad taught then he definitely taught that we are of African descent this is what he literally said in uh message to the black man also if you're able to you know read between the lines in those lessons obviously the 17 million represent those who came in the transatlantic slave trade and the 2 million that came from uh uh that walked the Bering Strait from Siberia now we have to now the evidence right when we look at the evidence and anybody who's watching there are going to be people who you know strive to debunk what I say but it's not debunkable because I don't teach things that I don't know. So when we look at uh when we look at who the kinship between uh Native American populations and Siberian populations Clovis culture and pre-clovis culture share genetic affinities with populations in Siberia to this day to this day right and so when we say Clovis and pre-clovis culture that is the name of that they have given to uh an archaeological site that I think was found in Clovis New Mexico I believe but it's just it it's uh it's just evidence to show that they came over here 23 at least 23000 years ago um and they have found what they call Clovis arrows arrowheads that are the exact same as arrowheads found in Siberia again as I stated before they share genetic affinities with uh current Siberian populations as well we don't right and so what happens is a lot of pretendians will say that they're not the real Native Americans right that the Native Americans and I don't like to use that term Native Americans I prefer uh indigenous people because uh first off you know America obviously has colonial roots and they uh were in America before obviously you know Christopher Columbus and the Holocaust of indigenous people and African people but with that said you know they can show and prove their history here right and then we are extremely disrespectful in saying that they're not the real ones and we are the real ones because we live in this fantasy that we are the the direct descendants of people that populated the entire earth. I mean if we are the direct descendants of West and Central Africans that were brought here on the transatlantic slave trade. I mean we can even look at the Africanisms that we uh currently brought with us everything from uh folk tales and folk stories and you can look at you you can look at uh you can do you can uh uh you know do your own research and find uh different anthropological studies archaeological studies that we did as black people showing things like aunt Nancy stories rooted in ananzi story stories from the Akon right that we brought to the Carolinas uh we can look at the institutions that we can look at the institutions that we created 1794 uh Richard Allen in Philadelphia created the Mother Bethel uh African Methodist Episcopal Church this is 1794 african uh the term African is in the name of the institution uh that is one of the oldest African American churches uh in America uh also Prince Hall 1775 his lodge was not originally called Prince Hall his uh lodge was called the African Lodge right and that was created in Boston Massachusetts it was not named after an indigenous nation right uh we can look at the places that we uh named like we can look at um Africa Town which is in Alabama uh which was founded by formerly enslaved Africans and enslaved Africans from West Africa in the Togo Beline area who were illegally smuggled uh to the US uh after the slave trade was banned in 1860 why would they create their why would they create a town called Africa Town if they were indigenous uh to America also you can read uh books like Barracoon from Zoranil Hurston who went and talked to the last remaining survivor uh Kujo I believe his the American name they gave him was Kujo but he had uh he had an African name that escapes me at the moment um but they preserved uh the African culture parts of their language and that was even one of the things that uh a lot of uh people pushed back on whenever she wrote the book is that she wrote the book and and and uh she wrote it in the way he spoke it right whenever she interviewed him and talked to him and so you see many African words uh still used you know in his dialect because he was an African man you have you have Igbo Landon which was a rebellion and mass suicide in Georgia right where uh uh uh Igbo captives uh from Africa were in Georgia committed a mass suicide uh instead of uh succumbing to the ills of slavery why would they name why would they name that Igbo landing uh one thing that you and Mikey fever do uh do uh well which are some of my favorite shows that you have are people that um talk about African traditional religions on your show so we have things like Lukumi Vadoon uh uh Palo um Hoodoo um all of these things were brought here from Africa right if they were not if we didn't if we are not African how did they get here they didn't they did not just appear here from nowhere they did not just appear here from nowhere we brought those we brought those things here right and even if you read uh and even when it comes to hoodoo right uh uh professor katrina hazard donald at uh ruggers has a great book called mojo working where she breaks down the history and culture of hoodoo and you know she talks about its relationship with uh religion in the Bukongo right this is not anything that we just again made up out of nowhere out of thin air even with the use of mojo bags right those are great those are West African grey bags yes yes yes there's no difference the brother the brother uh Muriel Smith spoke about that the other night he's right he's right and exact um also you know the banjo or a version of the banjo right which gave birth to what we know is gospel blues soul which are the foundations of African American music or West African instrument right um we all you know if you read Africanisms in America uh got that over there uh I have a book called Black English over there where it kind of uh goes through the history of what they call um of what they call uh uh e and the speech patterns that we use are similar to West African speech patterns that are used today right like can you give me an example okay you okay uh no that's to be honest with you uh that's a that's a tough one that's the hardest part in Africanism's in a uh uh by her school which that's the hardest part of that read to be honest with you because I'm not a linguistic expert but I could find you one that could I could build on that right um and so uh what about food cultivation right certain types of rice we brought here okra where does where does okra come from and why is it always in our food right jambalaya gumbo okra is West African you know I'm saying um watermelon where did that come from we brought that with us right certain types again certain types of rice uh you could read about that in uh the African the African origins of rice cultivation in the Americas right they didn't bring us over here and teach us how to cultivate rice we knew how to cultivate rice before they brought us over that's why they brought us over here you know what I'm saying um this is not this wasn't again and speaking of languages I forgot this one thing you can go to parts of Jamaica now in maroon communities and they have videos that you can see on YouTube of them talking right uh in the in the 60s and 70s still speaking Cromancy languages from West Africa still speaking them where did they come from right they're not indigenous to Jamaica they were brought to Jamaica to for the to cultivate sugar in the sugar plantations the same way we were brought here to cultivate rice to cultivate tobacco to cultivate sugar to cultivate all of the things that we cultivated and built this country so you know uh you can read about that uh somewhere over there but you can read about that in uh as far as food uh in high on the the book high on the hog is the companion to the documentary that's on Netflix that talks about the African origins of African American cuisine um one second and also uh burial practices right right um not too far from me there's a plantation uh that I go to sometimes just to uh show my respect um there were cowry shells found at the grave site of those enslaved africans there were cowry you in New York you know obviously about the uh mass uh enslaved african grave site that's out there yeah cavalry shells were found there as well those represented West African burial traditions that's not you don't indigenous Americans did not use cowry shells to bury their dead um we can look in New Orleans right old iron gates ironwork blacksmithing iron gates that had a dinch symbols right in them that's not indigenous american you know and so those are a few of the African uh the African Africanisms that we brought here um and also one thing that I feel is missing from the conversation is a lot of these people who claim that we are indigenous to America and uh and that we're not African they're not very well studied and the things that they do read are books that should probably stay on the shelf right um you're wasting your you're wasting your time uh when we look at the history our history in African America right if we look at our history and the history of uh our educational pursuits um we look at people like Carter G. Woodson right W.E.B. Du Bois right whose life work was the Encyclopedia Africana we look at other uh uh scholars in the diaspora at that time Edward Wilmot Blyton Cromel Martin Delaney they all talked about our Africanity not only that have you ever heard of the um the the flying African uh myth no oh wait wait wait wait the flying after like uh like voodoo spirit like uh I think I think I heard something well simpl not necessarily voodoo it was the idea that our ancestors had that when they died their spirit would fly back to Africa oh wow never heard that everybody in your uh chat right now can google what I'm saying take notes whatever and see that this is a real thing the flying african myth or the mythology of the flying african you know uh just think about that think about the psychology of that not only did we know what we were African African Africa was heaven to us africa was home to us right you know we didn't we didn't um you know don't get me wrong after after emancipation obviously some of us said hey you know we just we have just as much claim to this country as anyone else because we spit we spilt our blood for this country for 250 years and they are and they are right and exact i'm i'm not disputing anyone who feels that way it doesn't mean that you're not african though right it means that your ancestors spilt blood on on this land your ancestors cultivated this land your ancestors are the one that uh built america up but your ancestors had ancestors as well and they knew who their ancestors were hence things like the flying African myth um there's another idea that a lot of people have and I've seen this on other people's show um who you know I guess are propagating this idea that we are indigenous to America is this idea and it's very silly to me and I'm not gonna say any names I I don't it's not a disrespect to them it's just the scholarship is a little weird where this idea that we didn't start thinking we were African until roots came out right these are some of the things that I've heard people say now do net first off how silly do you think your people are right that sounds crazy but I will say this the Roots movie uh it it it gave I would say people from our generation in a visual and we kind of ran with that our imagination in that story told without doing enough research well that was obviously you know there's um dispute and uh allegations of plagiarism of the story regardless with that being true it does not mean that our story is not one of um being kidnapped from west and central Africa and forced and and and our labor uh exploited and forced here in the wilderness of North America that doesn't mean that you can't use uh Alex Haley's plagiarism as proof that we are indigenous to America I just showed you that uh the AME church was created in 17 in the in the late 1700s I just showed you that African Lodge was created in the late 1700s there were also you know revolutionary groups African blood brothers you know the free African society all of these different things like we knew who we were we knew who we were you know what I'm saying now uh it's kind of again we have to use our thinking caps we can't just be out here you know with the magical thinking and and and and rolling with ideas that aren't substantiated by anyone you gotta you have to think about this brother there isn't any uh university press or black owned press black professor or professor of any race at that point who is teaching a history that says that we were not kidnapped from West and Central Africa. No academic says this now what one what people will do when I to push back they will say well the academy is full of white supremacists and that's the white man's knowledge and all of that shit like that. But that's just a that's just a cop out for you not to be educated right because at the end of the day any book that comes from a university a university press is going to tell you uh it's gonna be a bibliography and there's gonna be a note section where you can look and read the sources for yourself. You ain't gotta take their word for it. Read the sources that they use to create the book right if you read the sources in stuff like they came before Columbus you might not be running with that narrative. Ivan Van Sertima used American mythology sources Leo Wiener like these these aren't He wasn't using history books. He was using mythology books, right?

SPEAKER_01 40:05

Wait, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. That right there, okay. Say that one more time for the people in the back.

Final Takeaways And Organizing Focus

Closing Remarks And Channel Support

SPEAKER_02 40:14

One of the uh one of the main uh sources that uh Ivy van Sertiman used before um they came before Columbus was from uh uh white anthropologist Leo Wiener, who um uh who created books, you know, uh with uh let me let me look for the name of that book that he created, because I don't want to lie to the people. Uh the name of that Africa and the discovery of America, right? And it's a book, again, it's a book that is easily debunked. Um is a book that was written uh before the obviously the human genome was mapped, right? There he had no, he didn't have uh any like genetic testing available to corroborate any of his ideas. Uh and so uh and let me stay on this point too, real quick. Even Ivan Van Certima is not saying that you aren't African, he's saying that you got there before Christopher Columbus, right? And the idea is that Abu Bukari II came from uh the the kingdom of Mali, uh, with uh what I guess they say about 20,000 people. They say he left. There's no evidence of where he landed. Uh some people say that uh, you know, North America, some people say Brazil. But let's let's think about this though. Let's say he did uh land in North America, right? Did he have women on those ships with him? Right? Right. Uh what would happen to a group of 20,000 Africans landing in North America and let's say they stumbled in on in an indigenous nation that had millions of people, they would have got swallowed up genetically, right? They would have got swallowed up genetically, and so a lot of people use that to say, okay, they use that idea that Abu Bukhari II came uh to North America before Christopher Columbus to say that we are indigenous to North America, but that doesn't make you indigenous to North America. That just means that you possibly came before the transatlantic slave trade on an exploration trip, right? But again, there's no proof of nor or no evidence uh that he landed anywhere. He could have got lost at sea, could have died at sea, or he could have, again, he could have made it somewhere and got swallowed up uh by the local population. They could have made it somewhere and got killed. You know what I'm saying? Uh by you just don't know, right? And again, uh that wouldn't prove that we are uh uh indigenous uh to North America. Um again, I can't say whether he made it or not, because there's no evidence uh either way. But what does that prove? That does not prove uh I'm just plugging my stuff up, it got unplugged real quick. But that does not prove that we are indigenous, uh, you know, to know that we're still African, bro. And so I don't, you know, a lot of people uh you gotta understand too the idea of the type of evidence that would that needs to be presented for the type of claims that these people make, right? You know, Carl Sagan once said extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Where's the extraordinary evidence that that people have that we are indigenous to America and not African? There is none, right? Um, and so uh do people realize the type of global conspiracy that would be needed for us to be tricked out of who we are? Everybody would have to be involved, and everybody would have to know except for us. So the entire world knows that that that we indigenous people, we indigenous uh to North America, but us. Everybody know, and they can't and they kept a secret from us for thousands of years. Like that isn't it doesn't even make sense. And another thing I kind of find where I see a lot of people get trapped in um they they will say that they don't bear witness to evolution, they will say that that they don't bear witness uh uh to the uh out of Africa theory, and they talk about the out of Africa theory as if it's just a theory, a normal theory that you could just you know come up with out of thin air. Scientific theory is not the same as theory. Scientific theory is based on an accumulation of facts that are testable, uh just a normal theory that we we may have, we can come up with a half-baked theory about anything right now. It doesn't mean that it's testable, doesn't mean that you know there's any evidence for it, right? Wanted to say that to say to say this. So they'll say that they don't bear witness to evolution, they don't bear witness to the out of Africa theory, they'll say, We always been here, right? We always been here, right? So either you're saying that a mystery god put you there in North America, or that you literally uh been in North America forever. Now, what doesn't make sense about that claim is you cannot have been in North America forever. First off, the planet was not always uh habitable, right? The planet was not always habitable. They take the idea that we have no beginning nor ending, we we have no beginning nor ending. They take that idea literally as if we were all Homo sapiens sapien has always existed in its current form. That's not true. This ain't true, man. Like I people are gonna be mad at me, and it is it is what it is. I don't really care, you know what I'm saying? They can't debunk anything that I'm saying. Homo sapien sapien didn't always exist, right? And also, hold on, let me get something real quick because I got I got a book for everything, man. Like, you know, like uh like this is one, like so, so okay, this is the the story of the earth, right? The first 4.5 billion years from stardust to a living planet, it goes uh it goes over the history of the planet and its existence, right? Um, and so they're gonna tell you that we've always been here, right? And so what they're what they're saying is that the planet Earth has always existed as we know it. You find me an astrophysicist that will ever agree with anything like that. Find one, find one. We can use the Hubble, they use the Hubble telescope to look back in time, at least 10,000. I mean, uh uh what 10 billion years already, right? They can look back in time 10 billion years, right? And they can see the formation of galaxies, they can see the formation of planets, but they're gonna tell you that uh the planet always existed in the form that it's been because they don't have no explanation for how they are indigenous, indigenous to North America and how they've always lived in North America, they don't have no explanation for that because they're not they don't want to say that a mystery god put them there, and they don't want to bear witness to uh uh uh ancient Siberian populations walking the Baron Strait and coming over there. So, how did you get there then? And then they'll say, Again, we always been there, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:47

Before Pan before Pan, you know, when no damn humans in no Pangea, man.

SPEAKER_02 47:52

Like, see, they got see that's again, see, that's that weirdo shit that people need to stop. That's you know what I'm saying? Like, it wasn't no damn humans in Pangea. Like, what is they talking about, bro?

SPEAKER_01 48:04

So, and so uh, you know, one of the things we were Homo sapiens, what what were we uh homo uh how does it go? Like the the the the the the breakdown of lineage.

SPEAKER_02 48:16

Uh as far as like our evolution before we became Homo sapiens sapien. I mean, yeah, you know, there's a there's a I guess you would have to say that what the there were many hominid groups for one, you know, uh Homo heterogenses, Homo erectus, all of these different, you know, and so we were the ones that survived, right? Like a lot of them died off. I'm not sure about like how they were mixed or how they uh procreated with each other or if they did or not, but the evidence is there, you know. We can look at you know fossil records and show uh you know early human evidence for Homo sapien sapien in uh the Great Rift Valley in Africa is not anything uh that it's not anything that is uh again some great conspiracy, as the god uh born of uh uh uh born eternal just said, just do a basic like science class, right? You know what I'm saying? Uh so again, um, real quick, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 49:18

So uh uh uh Degnesh out of South Africa, right? Uh or Ashwakzy uh says that the natives there call her Degnesh, who was Lucy, right? Lucy, she was Homo sapien.

SPEAKER_02 49:35

No, she was uh she was like uh one of the precursors to Homo sapien, but I don't she was not Homo sapiens sapien, I believe. Yeah, but regardless that but regardless of that, like I don't want to get stuck there because that's just a mute point, right? That whole point was to show that what they will say is since they can't explain away uh the out of Africa theory or the different uh migrations uh out of Africa and how uh if we are indigenous to North America, how we got there. Since they don't have an explanation on how we got there or where we came from, right? You got to think about this. We would have to come from somewhere, right? The indigenous populations that we know in America today came from somewhere. Well, if we're indigenous to America, where did we come from? They can't explain that, right? And so they'll say again that we were here in Pangaea, or you know, the earth has always been the way we uh the way the way it is now. Uh again, that's just uh categorically false or scientifically incorrect. And so, you know, again, I think it just goes to show the level of cognitive dissonance that you have to have in order to believe this kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_01 50:50

Thorough, thorough, thorough breakdown, thorough breakdown. I thought you were gonna come with some slides or something like that, but I mean it, I mean truth.

SPEAKER_02 50:58

I started too, but I man, I've been pressed for time lately, man. And so, you know, but again, all of these things, you know, the this is in this is on the internet now. All they have to do is is uh uh look up the things that I've that I've said and uh show and prove that I'm wrong.

SPEAKER_01 51:15

Indeed, indeed. Uh if before we cut out any any last words, that was a thorough breakdown from Knowledge the Born, as we say in the nation. I mean, I I mean it's nothing to what else could I say behind that? You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 51:29

Can't all I say is thank you for you know inviting me on the show. Um again, congrats to you for all your all your your success. Uh the show is is definitely uh a powerful show and uh much needed. Um and so we can continue to have discourses like these. Uh, but again, man, at the end of the day, the we are faced in we have some trying times, right? We are seeing seeing our people uh uh being laid off by the thousands. We are seeing state sanctioned violence against our people. We are seeing uh our people at home and abroad uh suffering on many different levels. You're not gonna be uh useful to your people until you at least understand who you are as an African, right? Um until then uh you're just talking and you're standing in the way. Like eventually things are gonna have to come to a head, right? We're not gonna stay in this condition that we're in forever. We're gonna organize and fight our way out of it. And we can only fight uh with people who are rooted in a real knowledge itself and a real political education and and and rooted and not living in a fantasy land, man. People that um people that will that are living in a fantasy land will sell you out. You know what I'm saying? So I wouldn't I wouldn't go to battle with none of them.

SPEAKER_01 52:49

Indeed, indeed. On that note, thank you for coming out this evening. Really appreciate you, brother. Thorough build, thorough build would be glad to have you up again, the build to keep building uh uh this African uh uh pan-African perspective on the NYP talk show.

SPEAKER_02 53:08

Let me say that just to say this too, because a lot of pretendians confuse, a lot of pretendians confuse pan-Africanism uh with the idea that pan-Africanism is why we think we're African. No, there are Democrats who Republicans who are black who know they're African, there are people of all political ideologies who are black people in America that know they're African. Being pan-African doesn't have anything to do with who we are genetically. I just wanted to say that because that's another thing that they like to throw out.

SPEAKER_01 53:40

Indeed. On that note, thank you for coming out again. Peace to everybody in the chat. We have uh the son of man on again, man. I gotta ask him some questions, man. We got the brother Son of Man on again in a few minutes. And uh see you in about seven minutes. Peace to everybody, peace to God. Go check out his channel, uh, Why is the Dome TV? He's he he's he he's is is he's heating up. He's heating up. Peace to everybody. We are out of here. One uh hold on, let's let's throw that. I forgot the commercial, y'all. Don't forget, don't, don't forget the commercial. Hold on.

SPEAKER_00 54:18

Peace, family, and welcome to NYP Talk Show. This is more than a podcast, it's a conscious platform rooted in truth and culture. From Pan-African teachings, hip-hop culture, current events, health, wellness, occult, and much more. Our mission is to reclaim our narrative and uplift the African diaspora with real stories and real conversations. Support us through super chats, during live shows, donations on Cash App, GoFundMe, Patreon, or BuzzSprout, and by repping our official merch. Available on our website and right here on YouTube's merch shelf. Every dollar, every super chat, every hoodie builds the movement. This is NYP Talk Show.