Fèt Makaya: Voices of the Sacred Night

What if the most grounded way to start a new year is to strip away what clings to you? We sit down with author and practitioner Papa Mystique to explore Makaya, the Haitian Vodou season of cleansing, protection, and renewal that runs parallel to the holidays yet answers to a different drum. Makaya means many leaves, and those leaves become baths, teas, and treatments that pull out stale luck and invite fresh growth. It’s precise, communal work guided by spirits like Simbi Makaya and anchored in a tradition that treats nature as teacher and ally.

Across the conversation, we unpack how Makaya renews the garde—your spiritual protection—and why this rite is both balance and defense. We zoom into the colors, songs, and tools found inside ceremonies, and we get practical about who can lead the work, what visitors might see, and why expertise matters when mixing fe. From there, we widen the lens to history: how healers and herbalists laid foundations for resistance, how figures like Makandal weaponized plant knowledge against bondage, and why understanding this legacy changes how we talk about Vodou today.

We also face the modern realities: stigma from outside religions, exploitation by opportunists, and the need for ethics that protect seekers. Papa Mystique speaks candidly about efforts to build governance, the responsibilities of elders, and the importance of Haitian voices writing Haitian Vodou. His book, Mysteries of Haitian Voodoo, bridges the gap for the diaspora and anyone seeking a clear, grounded entry point into the culture and its history.

Ready to rethink everything you’ve heard about Vodou and learn what it means to shed before you grow? Listen now, share with a friend who loves history and spirituality, and leave a review to tell us what shi

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:12

Peace, peace, peace, world. How you doing? It's your brother Mikey Fever. Happy New Year again to our NYP families, to our viewers, our listeners, our subscribers. Don't forget to comment, like, share, and subscribe. We got super chats. We have merch on the website. So do proceed, do tune in and get on board with the program. I like to give a shout out to my brother Ron Brown and the rest of the team. We have tonight a special guest that we had on here less than a month ago, I say last year, who rocked it when he was here. And this dude is an author. The first, first, let me let me make this clear, the first Haitian author that we have out here in this and these North Americans talking about Haitian voodoo. The one and only Papa Mystique, brother. How you doing?

SPEAKER_00 1:04

Aibo Bo, I'm good, I'm good, brother. How about you?

SPEAKER_01 1:06

I'm good. Ibobo. I gotta get that greeting correct, you know what I'm saying? Aibo Bo, peace of the family. So tonight we're gonna be talking about um Fet Makaya, voices of the Sacred Night. And we're gonna delve more into the aspect of voodoo of what makaya, what makaya is, because you know the voodoo is so diverse, Asian voodoo, it's just not it's just not one thing, right? Right. It comes in many flavors, and tonight you're gonna educate us on on what makaya is. So with that being said, brother, take it away, man.

SPEAKER_00 1:42

Yeah, so makaya is a period during the it it's parallel with the Christmas season, um, but it doesn't have anything to do with Christmas. And so around, you know, the end of December every year we start Fet Makaya, and you know, it goes on for several days, and you know, it's historically, you know, makaya, which is from you know one of our ancient languages, makaya means many leaves, you know. Oh right. So, you know, some people also say that makaya means, you know, uh, you know, it means like um, right? So it that means basically, you know, uh treatment that you get from, you know, herbs, these herbs, leaves, bar, anything dealing with, you know, the botanical side, you know, um, makaya has to do with that as well, as far as in definition, you know what I mean? And so depending where you go, which department of Haiti you go, you'll get, you know, a different reason or a different definition for makaya, but it's all really within the same part of the culture, which is we um, this is the time of the year that we choose to shed all negative energy, all bad luck, all jinxes. We use the fae, you know, to um, you know, to take a serious number of spiritual baths in order to, you know, shed just so just like when you look at nature, right? When you look at the trees during the winter season, what are they doing? It's you know, it's fall, the leaves are falling off, winter stuff is dying off. And then what, you know, so this is the season we're doing the same thing. We're shedding all our leaves, you know, we're shedding the things that are, you know, that are dead to us, you know, all that negative stuff, all that stuff that's not doing us no good. We're shedding too, and we're getting prepared to enter into the new year, which represents new birth, new growth, all these things. So December, we're mimicking nature and we're we're shedding, you know what I mean? And then as we start the new year, now we're getting ready for that new growth. So Makaya actually was you know uh a slave that was able to heal people, and so they had a series uh uh uh of different you know methods of using Fay, which are the herbs, leaves, things of that nature, everything within the botanica, you know what I mean? They were able to use all of these things for different types of treatment, right? So if you got treatment that gives you, you know, um, you know, that's able to give you like um, you know, healing methods, right? So, you know, healing people, right? So that had that's a particular type of faith. We got faith that we use for, let's just say, for good luck. You know what I mean? So there's a various number of ways that we've used our fay. And a lot of that is, if not all of it, is related to makaya. You know what I'm saying? And you know, that's what our people understood when they heard the term macaya, you know, that there was someone who had a knowledge of the fe, a knowledge of the herbs, a knowledge of the leagues, things of that nature. So historically, that's what that meant. And over generations, you know, it's become a celebration at the end of the year where we're you're seeing people, you know, with the p long, and they just, you know, they dump it on the herbs, it's all flying there, and you know, they just mashing it, mashing it, mashing it in order to create a very for a various number of treatments, you know what I'm saying? So it's a very um, you know, uh ancestral tradition that we have that has carried on. So we are fet makaya when everybody is, you know, ho ho ho berry Christmas. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 6:18

Exactly, exactly. I I like that because you know, and I'm glad that you broke it down. It it basically follows the solstice periods, like you know, as you said. So that's so that's very that's that's deep within the cosmology of it. Um which law are mostly which law are mostly commonly associated with macaya?

SPEAKER_00 6:39

Simbi makaya, he's one of the main ones, you know. Yeah, uh simbi makaya, simbi, which means uh doctor, you know, makaya means many leaves, so a doctor of many leaves, simbi makaya. You also have the je wujes, which are a part of this as well, guuj, right? Um uh ling list who by saying son as well, you know what I mean? So these um these la are part of it, right? And so some of the colors that you see around that time, you know, when you see uh black and red, you know, um other people use um you know different colors that represent, let's just say, the herbs, the things of that nature, you may see green, you know what I mean? So it's just depending on which la coup or associate theater that you go to, you may see a set of different numbers, uh colors rather, which would, you know, basically represent the spirits that are part of this tradition.

SPEAKER_01 7:47

Got you, I got you. So you say the black and red, the zeroes, which means the red eyes, like are just for the sake of the listeners, are the like the je rough part of the petrol right or the rada right?

SPEAKER_00 8:02

Okay, no, they're not part of the the rada right, yeah, right. Um they are part of the fed wolf, right? So the the Rouge, these are the slaves that were, you know, beat until their eyes turned red. You know what I mean? So this is where that spirit comes from. These are the ones, you know, you know, and they like to be stuck with needles and things of that nature. So they're they're the ones that represent the bloody bloody, you know what I mean? Um when you really think about it. So um, you know, they're part of the Petwo, which is a right that was born out of Haiti. This is a strictly Haitian right. This is our our that's our that's our nation there. Gotcha. Petwo. You know what I mean? Petwo is our nation. I mean, as far as like where where the right was birthed. All of them are all of them are ours, but it's Petro was specifically birthed out of Haiti.

SPEAKER_01 9:02

Got you, got you, got you. And I'm only asking these questions for the sake of the listeners and viewers again, is to like, because some may not be have as much knowledge on this, so we're trying to walk them through it to understand it so they could go out there and do their research, pick up his book, Papa Mystique book, which will guide you through that. And from there, you know, you have more knowledge. Is Makaya is Magaya primarily primarily defensive, offensive, or balance and protection?

SPEAKER_00 9:58

Makaya is balance and protection. So what that means is that during Makaya, we renew our God, which is our spiritual protection. So during Makaya, the God, which is our spiritual protection, there's a spirit associated with that God, and the God has to be fed. We feed the God every year around Makaya. You know what I mean? And um, you know, and that is where the renewal part of it comes in. We're we're renewing our God, we're renewing our spiritual protection around that time. You know what I mean? So, yes, it is defensive in the sense that it protects us, but it's also on the offensive in that we when we renew it, it's for the new year that's coming, you know, that we are going into.

SPEAKER_01 10:58

Because I remember growing up hearing like around whenever we we after you we're done with um Fet Gede, like the month of November, dealing with the dead, going into December, they always say this is a dangerous month for people. What? Like, what do you mean by that? If it's about healing and you know, healing and doing the herbs and protection, they say now this is the time where people are handling unresolved matters. Is that part of my kayak?

SPEAKER_00 11:23

Well, in a sense, it is, yes, because again, you anything that's in this year, 2025, or before, you want to try to, you know, close it out, not carry that into the new year. Whether it's problems, whether it's, you know, issues, anything that's negative and not positive to you is something that you want to, yes, absolutely resolve, take care of. And is it dangerous? It depends on what side you're on. Are you on the side that's trying to harm someone? Then it may be dangerous from you. You know what I mean? But if you're on the side where you're all about protecting yourself, your family, and you know what I mean, and you know, those in your community, then it's it's absolutely not dangerous. It's basically going on the offensive, you know. You know, it's being smart. You know what I mean? You want to you want to, you know, renew your protection. You know what I mean? That's called being smart. You know what I mean? It's like having insurance. You know what I'm saying? Just in case something happens in the future, you know, where you may be attacked, spiritually attacked, you got that protection. You know what I'm saying? That's gonna, you know, that's gonna allow you to thrive. So that's the the pretty much, you know, when you think about when they say something like that, it can be dangerous. It can. But it's best to be smart and be on, you know, the offensive rather than the defensive, you know, in that particular situation.

SPEAKER_01 13:08

Got you. So, like, um, so who can practice? Is it mainly designated to voodooists, to uguns and mumbles, or can somebody just wake up a person with like, you know, I'm gonna do some makaya work today? How does that work? Is it designated to only mumbles than uguns?

SPEAKER_00 13:24

Well, in regards to makaya work, yeah, um, it would absolutely have to be someone who's knowledgeable of what they're doing. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 13:37

You know.

SPEAKER_00 13:38

Um, you don't just wake up and be like, you know, you have to learn from someone who knows what they're doing. You know what I'm saying? Because there's uh a wide number of fa that is used for, you know, these bangs, and you know what I'm saying, that we create. And so if you don't know what you're doing, you may not put the right fa in these bangs that will help you remove, you know, the negative stuff. You know what I'm saying? You could possibly end up making it worse for yourself by moving without knowing what you're doing. Or, you know what I mean? You have to seek someone who knows what they're doing in order to kind of like, you know, help you get involved within makaya. Now, are people welcome to come visit, you know, let's say someone's out in the fetaya? Yeah, absolutely. They can see what's going on, you know what I'm saying? And, you know, possibly, you know, get some faith for themselves in order to get the Bengium, because normally traditionally just what they do, because makaya, during makaya, we share with everybody. We share. It's a period of sharing, you know what I'm saying? So while you know, people other people are sharing, you know, Christmas gifts, we're sharing in Makaya food, you know what I mean, baths, everything. You know what I mean? So if someone's visiting a Laku or, you know, a Umfo, and you know, this uh Fet Makaya going on, then yeah, they'll be allowed to participate with the other voodooizant that are there, and they'll kind of let them know, you know, what's going on, you know, throughout the ceremony.

SPEAKER_01 15:22

Got you. I have a question, Ray, and I don't I don't want to go against the code of ethics of the culture. What herbs, if you don't mind, naming, if you can name a few, are using during the Makaya ceremony.

SPEAKER_00 15:34

Well, we have two versions, right? You got like Move Fe, and you got uh, and Move Fe is kind of like Faye that you use for certain treatments, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01 15:50

Like bitters.

SPEAKER_00 15:51

You got ah? Like bitters considered bitters, like you know, right, like bitters, and then you got, you know, umce, which is to help with, you know, I mean, um prosperity and you know, and growth and things of that nature. So, you know, there's two different categories of these types of fed. You know what I'm saying? Um, so it kind of just really depends. So we got, I I could mention some of them, but I know people probably won't know um what these are, but we got like Faye Zodivan, Fay Amoise, um uh those um we use Baseli, of course. Um and uh, you know, it's just it's just so many. I can't even just kind of draw in the blank right now, but it's just so many that we use that you know that's part of uh the tradition. You know, it's it's a lot of different erbs that we use. So, but you know, just for example, yeah, we use uh, you know, um, like I mentioned, Fezo de Vant, um Fay Moise. There's another one.

SPEAKER_01 17:12

Um can I say one? I don't know. They're gonna laugh at my creole is when they call boacaca.

SPEAKER_00 17:18

Boacaca, right, yeah. There's also a lot a lot of different ones that we use.

SPEAKER_01 17:23

That herb stinks, man. Live up to his name. That herb does does stink, bro. I said that herb does stink, it live up to his name.

SPEAKER_00 17:32

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:35

Got you, man. So what taboos must Makaya practice practitioners? Um must macaya practitioners follow?

SPEAKER_00 17:44

Follow?

SPEAKER_01 17:45

Yeah. Taboos? Like certain things that they must follow, like, you know, like you can't go of course, like um.

SPEAKER_00 18:00

So there are certain things that you know, um, if you are practicing within Makaya, as I mentioned, there is a point where we have to um feed our God, right? So that's something that you absolutely have to do because that's the basis of Makaya, which is protecting us, keeping us healthy. You know what I'm saying? So um feeding your spiritual protection at that time is something that you know you absolutely have to do during Makaia season, and that is, and that is the whole point, you know what I mean, of Makaya. And a lot of uh associate or lacus, they end up doing it, you know, right before the new year. That's like the last thing where they feed, you know, give the offering, you know, you know, in order for that protection to uh to last throughout the the incoming year. So that's something that you absolutely have to do. Um as always, you know, give honors to the spirits, you know what I'm saying? And you know, especially the spirits that have a lot to do with this faith that we have, you know what I'm saying? Simbi Macaya, you know, all the all the makaya, and then even Guambois. Um they're like, you know, they work a lot together, Simbi Makaya and Guambois, you know what I mean? Um, so you know, definitely always give honors to those spirits, you know what I mean, for allowing us to have this nature to work with so that we may heal ourselves.

SPEAKER_01 19:49

That's that's that's pretty dope. So it so makaya starts from December 1st and ends 31st. So it's a one-month celebration, basically.

SPEAKER_00 19:57

Well, we consider so yes, we consider the month of December like Makaya season once it right after get it. But like you'll start seeing the main ceremonies begin around Christmas time. You know what I mean? Um, the 26th, 27, 28, 29, all the way up until you know the new year.

SPEAKER_01 20:18

Okay, gotcha, got you. Are there any gender specific gender specific roles in the Makaya um tradition and practice?

SPEAKER_00 20:28

Gender specific roles? Um I mean, I don't want to say gender specific, you know what I mean, as far as like a woman has to do this or a man has to do that, you know what I'm saying? Because everybody kind of takes part in it. Yeah. Um, most of the time, I do see the mumbo's or the sisters, they're the ones that's you know at the key vet and they fought their feel. You know what I mean? Um they're fought during the fang. And then, you know, you see guys up there, you know, with the beelong, you know, hitting it, hitting it, hitting it, hitting it, you know, crushing up the herbs and things of that nature. So you kind of you mostly see that, but I don't want to say that you know, a man or a woman can't do either of those things.

SPEAKER_01 21:17

Gotcha, gotcha, we got you with that. So take us like take us through a process, like, say, for instance, I'm going to affect my guy, right? What am I what am I expected to see when I walk in there? You know, when I walk in the spot, right? Like, like, you know, they as I see them, you know, pressing down, you know, as they say, four throwing the herbs together. The brothers are breaking down the um is it herbs as well, they breaking down, or um uh other things? It's the same, it's the same thing.

SPEAKER_00 21:42

Herbs, I mean, herbs. Um uh, you know, it just depends on what day it is. Because what happens is so one day they're gonna cousin the fee, one day they're gonna pile the fate. One day it's gonna be uh um um, you know, green fe, one day it's gonna be dried fee. You know what I'm saying? So there's a series of days and processes that they go through with each different one. You know what I'm saying? So you'll have, like I said, you know, fresh green, they'll pile dough, they'll have dried, they'll pile those. And when I say pile it, just you know, I mean crush them. You know what I'm saying? So there's a a different number of things that that's happening over the period of Macaya.

SPEAKER_03 22:36

Right.

SPEAKER_00 22:37

So there's different faith that's being used and different methods that's being applied to them, you know, in order to prepare everything that we need for all the uh all the activities of Macaya, whether that's bass or other things. You know what I'm saying? So um, yeah, you see leaves, you see uh roots, you see um bark, you know what I mean? All parts of the Fe you'll see that will be getting crushed up on any uh particular day.

SPEAKER_01 23:08

So basically it's just herbal baths and drinks, if possible, like certain um potions of drinks, something like that, right? Teas and healing.

SPEAKER_00 23:15

Yeah, just depending, yeah. You know, again, just depending on, you know, the Bitation or the Lakou, they'll be doing, you know, any number of one of those things, you know, that you just mentioned, you know what I'm saying? Because there's a lot of stuff that we can do with the Faye, you know what I'm saying? So, yeah, you know, just a lot of different things that they're doing during this period where, you know, it could be, you know, it could be for Bang, could be, you know, for for other things, you know what I mean? Um, they make boots and all kinds of stuff. So it just really depends on what's what that particular lapu is, how they're choosing to, you know, go about doing their fets or celebrations and things like that.

SPEAKER_01 24:01

All right, so we about to we gotta turn turn up a little bit. How is Makaya viewed within within broader Haitian society? Because we know we have Hudoists and we have different denominations of religions in Haiti, you know, mainly Catholic, Protestant, you know, Protestants, Seven Day Adventists. How how do you think others view the practice of Mackaya during this season? Like what are their views of it, the misconceptions of it?

SPEAKER_00 24:27

Well, most people think you know, macaya is well again, that's something else that it just depends where you're at. You know what I mean? A lot of people are beginning to respect Makaya, they just didn't know what Macaya was. You know what I'm saying? So there's a lot of Haitians that, you know, who were raised Christian, right? And you know, they're interested in knowing what Macaya is because it gets it's on TV in here, you know, it gets it's gets its fair share of publicity every time the season comes around. I think now more people are kind of getting into it, you know what I mean. But yeah, you know, there was also, you know, that group that calls it demonic, you know what I'm saying? And, you know, um I think they need to be uh educated on what Makayat really is, you know what I mean? But you know, for those who still think that ancestral traditions are demonic, you know, that speaks a lot to their education, you know what I mean? Where, you know, it's kind of like, have you studied your history? You know what I'm saying? Have you studied your own culture to realize that Makaya is not just a season, this was an actual historical person within the history of our, you know what I mean, of our Haitian people, you know, or not even just Haitian people, but Africans, Tainos, you know what I mean? They all understood what or who Makaya was, you know what I'm saying? And Makaya also was part of the group that was, you know, into making the poisons. You know what I'm saying? So that's why you kind of got the societeers with Macaya, you know what I mean? Because these people have an ancestral lineage to people who had everything to do with leading up to the um the revolution, you know what I'm saying? Because the revolution, which everyone, well, I don't know if everyone knows, but they should know about, you know what I mean, about um uh what they should know about Waka Iman, you know what I'm saying? But Waka Iman was a ceremony that has a lot to do with igniting the revolution, but there were also many, many events that led to Wakaiman, that led to the revolution. And so when you look back in history, there was a poison conspiracy, right? And Makandal was a part of that poison spirit conspiracy. Him, his uh wife were a part of that as well. But even before that, we had Makaya, right, who was the herbal doctor, right, in our community. So they had, they laid the groundwork, they laid the foundation for people like Makandal, who came after, you know what I mean, to be able to learn the science of using poisons, you know what I'm saying, in order to poison the enemy that absolutely led to our liberation. So while their enemy was fighting with weapons, our people was fighting with the science of herbal, you know, with the spirits, things of that nature.

SPEAKER_01 28:02

Herbologist, yeah. That's a fact. That's a fact. I'm I'm glad I'm glad you're taking it there. Because I was like, you know what? We're gonna just, you know, stop doing the miracle round and it's get to them raw, man. I'd rather get to them raw because in your book, I read about that and do my studies of what took place with Makandal. Making something I started learning later, and glad you put shed light on that. About, you know, the herbologists learn the land, the science of the land. They knew the herbs poisoning um as can as Kanye West said, people had an option, uh slavery was a choice. They said, nah, we're just gonna poison these people and call it a day. You know what I'm saying? So I'm glad that that's part of our history, which showed a resistance because I look at the science of voodoo, I don't want to say religion, the science of voodoo as a form of resistance against white supremacy. So I find it odd when people frown their face upon it. You know, you understand what I'm saying, right? So so that's beautiful within itself. So we we got through the makaya the season, what it's about, renewing yourself, shedding your skin, brought in the the opening for the new year. When the makaya season is over, any other seasons after that, any other special theme after that, or we just go over the street.

SPEAKER_00 29:13

Yeah, so once when makaya is transitioning, you know, over, then yeah, we um like I mentioned, we shedding during the winter when you know we start to go into the spring. Now we start doing our our bang shunces and things of that nature. And one of the most powerful law dealing with shunts is the fuera, you know what I mean? So you know, we just actually had a another holiday for all the hunger, all the mumbo, papa loco, you know what I mean. And then this is for um the people who are uh they call it, you know, the uh the wa, right? So you have the three kings day that people were celebrating. So we have our version of wa, you know, wa, right? So, and this is the thing, you know, we're talking about kings, uh kings within our history, you know what I'm saying? That we, you know, and you know, jungan, mumbo, these are the our queens, they're treated. A lot of people don't know because you know, you know, they've kind of got them gotten our people have kind of gotten away from you know our history, our culture, but uh jungan and mumbo is royalty. They are royalty. That's the thing. You know what I mean? So, you know, when we celebrate, which was just on January 6th, you know, we honor all of them, you know, Papa Loco, you know what I mean? Uh the one who actually gives the power to the Hungon and Mumbo. We celebrate him. You know what I mean? Um at Lapu um by Joe, you know, they celebrate Papa Ogu. You know what I mean? Um, so there's a lot of uh celebrations that happen after Makaya, which is very beautiful. So we go, and then you know, we start going into you know some of the other seasons, such as we'll be in May, we'll get to you know, Kuzin's Laka, which is you know around right around Labor Day, you know what I mean? Um be in Haitian Labor Day, and we you know we have the celebrations with Kuzin, you know what I mean? And we're giving back to charity, we're focusing on hard work, so there's different seasons that we encounter after Makaya, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 31:39

That's dope. So Kuzin Zaka, the agriculture with agriculture, right? I think he represents which makes perfect sense for our people in May, you know what I'm saying? Because off the land, it kind of kind of ties back, I don't want to be wrong, to the whole Makaya concept. Again, knowing the herbs, knowing the sciences of the herbs. So that that's pretty that's pretty that's pretty dope. More about that. I want to get more into your book. Okay. As I said earlier, um, you're the first Haitian author that I met that's actually speaking about this Haitian concept of voodoo, and it ties back to the historical context of uh the Haitian people, right? Not written by no disrespect, not written by no European. I'm not being disrespectful, but you know, it's not a European narrating our stories, actually somebody who's with who's born within the culture.

unknown 32:26

Right.

SPEAKER_01 32:27

I don't want to sound mean, but go ahead, bro. Like, take it, give us a walk through that.

SPEAKER_00 32:30

Yeah, so you know, my book, Mysteries of Haitian Voodoo, um, you know, a very good book for someone who has no knowledge of voodoo, but they want to get a base understanding of it, especially if you're Haitian. And this book is educational in the sense that before we jump straight into Haitian voodoo, can we get into Haitian history? Can we find out what voodoo has to do with our history, what voodoo has to do with our culture. Let's learn that first. Let's understand how this ancestral tradition, which was you know given to Haitian people, but also to the world. Let's learn about the people. Let's learn about the Haitian people who presented it to us, who made us become knowledgeable about Haitian voodoo. Where did they come from? How did they evolve from where they come from to who they are today? And what does voodoo have to do with it? And this is how we, you know, how I begin the book with the history of Haiti, leading all the way up until, you know, the Wakaiman, which is very significant in our history, in our liberation today, why I'm able to sit here in the luxury of my home and speak to you on this podcast why me and you are liberated, right? Because me and you are liberated because what our ancestors did in the past. You know what I'm saying? And the truth of the matter is they were practitioners of this ancestral tradition that has been handed down to us after many generations, and we need to honor and respect that. So that's why it's Mysteries of Haitian Voodoo, unveiling the spiritual traditions and history of Haiti, right? Because voodoo is very diverse. I know voodoo, I know a lot of people would like to think voodoo is one thing, but it's not just one thing, it's many things, you know what I mean? And you are right that I am a Haitian author, right? Now that has to give honors and respect to you know, former Haitian authors, and I was, you know, um speaking with you before the broadcast that, you know, when you talk about books on Haitian voodoo, and you go into Google, you know, not many of our people come up. You know what I'm saying? And and it's been uh a very long time since we've had a book on Haitian voodoo, you know, written by someone who came up in the culture, someone who is Haitian, you know, and it was, you know, it was like a bestseller of any kind. You know what I'm saying? Like you just don't see that, you know what I mean? And and you have to ask yourself the question, why? Why isn't a book by a Haitian author on Haitian voodoo, you know, ranking up there with some of these other authors who may not have grew up in it, but they end up inheriting it through initiation, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01 36:11

Talk about it.

SPEAKER_00 36:12

Why are we, you know, why are we struggling to have one of our own just as popular, if not more so, you know what I mean, um, as an author of Haitian voodoo. You know what I'm saying? Like, we have to kind of figure out what that is, you know what I mean? Why, and I I kind of know, like, let's just be honest. That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_02 36:38

Keep it real, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 36:39

Yeah, yeah, let's just be honest. Look, Haitian people ain't writing books, bro. We're not writing books like that because this tradition was handed down orally, right?

SPEAKER_02 36:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:52

So because it was handed down orally, we have no need for books because we're just teaching our own, right? But what has happened is that, you know, as Haitians start to go out into the world, you know, into the diaspora and populate some of these other areas and create families in these other areas, there's a disconnect, right, from the ancestral tradition and from the culture because they are not bringing voodoo with them to wherever they have gone. You know what I'm saying? Some have, you know, you find in areas like Florida, uh, New York, Boston, where there are very heavy Haitian communities, you have, you know, a minority of people that will be practicing the tradition, right? But let this, but Haitians are all over the world. And everybody is not bringing voodoo with them. You know what I'm saying? So how are their children going to learn about their culture, not from the enemy who's saying it's evil and demonic, but from someone who, you know what I mean, is showing, is showing veneration and honoring the culture and showing them the telling them the truth about Haitian voodoo. You know what I mean? Where's their access gonna be at? Are we just gonna cut them off because their families chose to move someplace else? No, that doesn't make it nobody else does that. So why should we do that? You know what I mean? There shouldn't be a divide because uh Haitian chose to go someplace else. You know what I mean? No, that person wants to. Every ethnicity allows their people to learn about their culture no matter where they go. They make it available. So we have to do the same thing. We have to make the culture available, you know what I mean, to those who may not have access because their parents may not have brought voodoo with them from where they came.

SPEAKER_01 38:46

Beautifully said, yo. This is why it's so important for the elders to pass this information down. Because as we said before the broadcast, right? Damn, I'm gonna get I'm gonna catch a lot of flack for this, Papa. You may catch flack for this too. We have a lot of charlatans out here that are giving people a lot of misinformation about the culture. You get what I'm saying? Because it's it's one thing to understand the culture, but can you identify with it? Right. Like, I I I know what I know if I walk somewhere, there's certain sense I know, certain energy you know, certain songs you know that would hit you a certain way because you identify with it. That's within you. But there's there are those who go out there who try to buy the culture, but they don't understand it. It's not it's not within you, it doesn't resonate correctly with you. Because you know what you said about the voodoo thing, what you're doing is very profound, and like I told you before, very profound, powerful, and it's beautiful. And it's something that you know it's leaving a legacy behind. Believe it or not, you're contributing a lot. Your book right here is the blueprint that could build on more because many others will be inspired by it to go out there and do the and do the work.

SPEAKER_00 39:52

Right.

SPEAKER_01 39:52

Um I think that fear comes from remember colonialization amongst our people, too, bro. You got a lot of these, you know, these rice-bag Christians who will drop their culture to embrace another. And I'm not banging on religion, I'm just saying they've been taught wrong to say, yo, you know, dislike what you're doing, but yet you go to a Catholic church, you see saints, they're doing the same thing that you're doing.

SPEAKER_03 40:18

Right.

SPEAKER_01 40:18

Just that you just you just see little, you know, white faces on there, you deem it as safe. So I don't know, brother. It's weird, man. I'm happy your book is doing that. You're educating us about our culture because you can't talk revolution without talking about voodoo when it comes to Haiti. Oh, exactly. That's what liberated us. It was the spirit of the ancestors, the will of the people. The Tainos were involved. The voodoo that we have is a conglomerate of adding, even adding part of the oppressors' um science into it, too.

SPEAKER_00 40:56

Right.

SPEAKER_01 40:57

You get what I'm saying? So I'm glad that you mentioned that. And you know, before the broadcast, we used I asked you a question about this. Is it true? Because you know, like a lot of Haitian people tend to say things. I think sometimes it's exaggerated. They said that Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton were initiated into this. Is that true? Any any truth to that?

SPEAKER_00 41:17

So I actually write about their first experience, you know, in Haiti and with Voodoo. Right? I actually write about this in the book. Mysteries of Haitian Voodoo, like Papa Mystique. You'll find it on Amazon, anywhere. Apple Books, it's out there. But I write about their first visit to Haiti, which was in 1975, and they did attend uh voodoo ceremony, which was um being led by uh uh Hungan Max Bouvoir, who is another uh Haitian author, as well as um, you know, a very significant figure in the history of Haitian voodoo, especially when it deals with, you know, uh the worldwide recognition of it. You know, he was an engineer, uh doctor, scientist, uh, what have you that, you know, um retired and chose to, you know, um, you know, follow the path of his father, who was a homegun, you know what I mean, and you know, returned to voodoo, you know, to do voodoo, you know what I mean, after having a great career, you know, as an as an engineer. So um he uh led this voodoo ceremony that Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton attended. And um, as a lot of people don't know, that Bill, when Bill Clinton went to, well, after he married Hillary Clinton and they went to Haiti, he had lost his um, he was he up here, he was running for, I believe, attorney general in Arkansas at the time, and he lost the race. Married Hillary Clinton, they're on their honeymoon, they go to Haiti, and he's deciding, and he writes about this experience in his book, and at that point, he's deciding should he go back to Arkansas and run again, or you know, should he just hang it up? And after that voodoo ceremony, he went back to Arkansas with a different state of mind. Now, we all know what happened. He became, he won governor of Arkansas and he became president twice. You know what I'm saying? He won the race twice. This is uh clearly a change from someone who lost the attorney general race in Arkansas, which is much lower than a governor, you know what I mean? And if you think about it, after he comes from Haiti, oh, he has all this, he has this streak of good luck that just doesn't stop. What happened at that ceremony?

SPEAKER_01 44:09

Yeah, do you guys get the point?

SPEAKER_00 44:10

You know what I mean? That's what I'm saying. So did he get some IG done? He probably didn't initiate, but did they get any of my G done? And if he got some IG done and he believes in it, I wouldn't be surprised if you know that were true. I can't confirm it because I didn't initiate them. You know what I mean? But you know, we do know that they have had they have maintained a very close uh tie to Haiti. You know what I mean? Um, and even though they've done a lot of wrong, they they own property in Haiti. They did for some reason him and the bill Bill and Hillary Clinton are not trying to leave Haiti alone no time soon. And what is that reason? You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 44:54

Bloodsuckers. Let's keep it real. They go there, exploit the people, you know, they learn the craft, and that's what I'm saying. Do you think that somehow our people have allowed the craft to be exploited for a dollar?

SPEAKER_00 45:12

I would say that there are people out there exploiting it. I I know that to exist. Whether our people allowed it, you know, you got to look at who who gave it to the people that are exploiting it. You know what I'm saying? Who gave it to them, right? And you know, who who gave, and that's why I'm saying, even then, you can't really say, because you got you know, people who come and they try to be a part of our culture. And Haitian people are so loving, we're so loving. You know what I mean? Now we're we're meshant too, but we're loving also, you know. We got a lot of us that's meshant too, but you know, we're very loving people, and we will welcome you. You know, I mean, we'll welcome you into our home, we'll welcome you, show you our beautiful culture. Now, you know, you may be letting people in, like you said, that are blood suckers, you know, and so they take advantage of that loving, you know, um, nature of ours, and then like, okay, I'm gonna take this, this, this, and that. And then they go do their thing. So, yeah, that absolutely does exist, but it may not because someone just knowingly gave it to them. It may be because of our loving nature. We teach our culture to our people, you know what I mean? And, you know, yeah, there's people that go and buy it too, because you know, there's people that's hustling it. Absolutely. That exists. But that exists in, I think that exists in everything. You know what I mean? It's not just Haitian Voodoo, you know. Um, but I will say that I do see a lot of our people, you know, still trying to kind of, I guess you would call it gatekeeping, right? But then, you know, they will sell it too. You know what I mean? So it's kind of like we gotta pick and choose what we're gonna do. You know, gatekeeping, gatekeeping cannot have a price. You know what I mean? If it has a price, then there's no point in gatekeeping it.

SPEAKER_01 47:12

Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned that. And you know, we got a few minutes before we can check out, you know what I'm saying? I know we're taking up speed. I'm glad you mentioned about the gatekeeping and what takes place in the culture, right? There are other factors in the culture that some people be afraid to speak of. You know what I'm saying? The abuse of power. I I have I have heard horror stories. You know, some people go for initiation. Well gun may be like, you know, I see the fuming them and fumsa, you know, whatever, come with some BS story, or people who practice other forms of, you know, sexual preference trying to impose their will on people. Is there some is there some kind of council within I don't know, it sounds it sounds good to say what a council within Haitian voodoo that kind of regulates those behaviors that uh speak out against these um atrocities?

SPEAKER_00 48:09

So that's a good question. So traditionally, we've always had some type of security council, which are like the societe, the secret societe, and these are you know they kind of police certain matters, but uh modern-day voodoo does have um some form of counsel. I know in Haiti, for sure, they put together something. It's still in the works. As you know, a lot of things take a lot of time in Haiti, but there's they we do have some type of governance that was created for kind of trying to um have voodoo, you know, have some type of uh governance, even though you can't really do it because it's just a lot of it, but we there is there is something being developed in place and being developed to kind of like uh have a code of ethics, right? And so that code of ethics would include like what you're talking about, as well as you know, other things, you know, sacrificing in a decent way. So there's something that's you know, it's in development, but it's not widespread. You know what I mean? But um as far as that, what you're talking about, you know, yes, there's a lot of that. There are horror stories. The story does absolutely exist, but again, that's something that it's in a lot of things, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01 49:51

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 49:52

It's in a lot of things, especially when you're talking about spirituality, you know what I'm saying? So when you think about that, you think about spirituality, man, it's supposed to be all good, but spirituality is not all good. Well, it's not all good nor all bad. It is, and it's learning lessons in it, you know what I'm saying? And you know, you just got to um look at this from a spiritual eye to try to kind of you know um get an understanding on how to navigate yourself through those things. It absolutely doesn't belong. Yeah, but you still gotta use, you know, you know, um your spiritual eye to be able to kind of discern when you are in a situation where you know where it's not, you did everything incoming correct. Because if you're being approached like that, you know, kind of like for a quid pro quote where you know you're exchanging something for something else, then you know, you it's best that you move up out of there, you know what I mean, and find, you know, uh someplace where you're not experiencing those things.

SPEAKER_01 51:11

Now, I'm I'm glad you it's beautiful. I I love how you how you articulated that it's beautifully said, because you know, I know in Haiti, you know, they as you say the second time to work on that, to build a community to regulate those things. And as you said, it's something it's so you can't contain it because it's so widespread, and not the behavior, not the behaviors itself, but you know, voodoo's all over the place. So to get a grasp of what's going on, but you know, I say this like that guy. I don't know if you're familiar with this guy, Makachi Doula, who be cursing on the Haitian TV stuff. That guy will be or you people out there doing these deviant behaviors. Let me tell you something. I will put you on the screen, I will summer jam screen you. Yeah, I better stop the behaviors out there, stop abusing people. Man, people came, they came for help, they came for refuge and information to help better themselves. You as a practitioner, your behaviors will give this religion a bad name. So, right, tighten up. You know what I'm saying? If not, you're gonna be on the screen, you're gonna be on that screen. I know that's right. Yeah, definitely. Trust me, I'm on your ass. That's how we that's how we police it. Yeah, I'm on your ass. Trust me, I'm on your ass. Yeah, you can see the face too. I'm on your ass. Go like your ass. So, anyway, my brother, I appreciate you for coming out, man. And I'd like to have you come up more, man, to elaborate on that book because again, we need to cherish what you're doing, man. It's very important. Can you tell the name again? Where can they find the book?

SPEAKER_00 52:41

Yes, Mysteries of Haitian Voodoo by Papa Mystique. Very, very good book on Haitian Voodoo. Uh, teaches you a lot of what you won't learn in many of these other voodoo books. You know what I mean? You can find it on Amazon, you can find it on Barnes and Nobles, you can find it on Apple Books, you can find it of a number of places. Just type in Mysteries of Haitian Voodoo, type in Papa Mystique, and the book's gonna pop up. Very good reviews uh so far from everybody who's read the book, you know. Um grab a copy and you know, support a Haitian author. That's the key thing, a Haitian author who has written a book on our culture, you know. So let's make this book pop up first when they Google it.

SPEAKER_02 53:34

That's a fact, man.

SPEAKER_00 53:35

Let's make this book pop up first. You know, it's important that we have one of our own speaking about our culture ourselves.

SPEAKER_01 53:44

And it's beautiful what you're doing because we we have to also conserve our culture. Because believe it or not, sooner or later, paper genocide is taking place. And if we don't conserve voodoo, if we don't read about it and instill this information into the ears and the minds of the youth, it will be lost. That's why I mystique salute and respect to you, brother. Shout out to shout out to Mumble Lost in Brooklyn, spiritual mom right there. She she's raw, you know. I'm saying, shout out to all the real Uguns and Mumbles out there that's doing the work, you know. I'm saying not those that out there seeking drama because you know we got to get rid of that too. All that's nonsense we're doing online and stuff.

SPEAKER_00 54:19

Yeah, that's a lot, that's a lot of that online, brother.

SPEAKER_01 54:22

That has to stop. It looks it's disgusting, it's disgusting. You think your ancestors fought that hard to give you something like this to carry on with those behaviors, right? You know what I'm saying? I'm not, I'm not just listening, listen. Let's just keep you know what with that being said, my brother. Okay, so that could we could go on for forever. I appreciate you. Shout out to the listeners, shout out to the viewers. Don't forget to comment, like, share, and subscribe. We got super chat. Check out Papa Mystique's book. You go out there, Mysteries of Haitian Voodoo. You go on Amazon, you run it up. They have the Kindle um version, they got the hard copy.

SPEAKER_00 54:55

If I was just I wanted to ask you, man, you gotta let me know what you think, man. What's what's if you had any questions on it, man, on the book. So next time we'll get into that. Definitely.

SPEAKER_01 55:05

We we I I'm going to because I see I got to the part when we got to the history of voodoo, and we got into like the creations of um, you know, the rights, what it's about, right? I'm just like let's see, third chapter, so I'm still going through it, you know what I'm saying? All right, bet. That's good. Yo, very historical, but I'm gonna finish up because I'm in the middle of reading so many other books that I'm trying to cram it through. Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 55:25

I know what you mean.

SPEAKER_01 55:26

Yeah, so I got you. Next show, we're gonna definitely talk about that. I'm gonna ask you about that. No doubt. May have some mumbles and oogans on there too to add on, bro. All right, bro. It's important. No doubt. Peace of love, man. We out. Peace of love. Aibo bo. Aibo boom.