Haitian Revolution: A Game-Changer in History!

Freedom didn’t arrive as a metaphor in Haiti; it marched, plotted, drummed, prayed, and fought until an empire blinked. We dive into the Haitian Revolution as both turning point and template—how a sugar colony bankrolled France, how revolt became governance, and how strategy split between accommodation and absolute resistance. Along the way, we talk straight about identity: you can’t be Haitian without being African, and the new online wars—FBA vs Caribbean vs continental Africans—feel like old divide-and-rule tactics with better Wi‑Fi.

We follow the early sparks—Makandal’s poison plots, Dutty Boukman’s faith and fire, maroons and Seminoles as twin paths to freedom—and explain how different empires ran slavery differently, shaping how and when people rebelled. Toussaint Louverture’s “phantom of liberty” sits beside Dessalines’ “irritated genie,” a blueprint for guerrilla warfare that turned Saint-Domingue into the one place a Black person could walk free with head high. We tackle myths about “killing all whites,” the welcoming of Polish soldiers, and why the constitution declared all Haitians Black. Flags matter too: black-red as militant sovereignty; blue-red signaling mulatto rule.

Then we trace the sabotage. The assassination of Dessalines, Christophe’s Citadel as deterrence, Pétion’s French courtship, and Boyer’s catastrophic acceptance of a French indemnity that drained Haiti for generations—and reinstated Catholicism to lock culture into new obedience. We link these choices to a longer playbook: propaganda in Dominican schools, religious pressure, and the quiet power of conditioning—from baby food boxes to TV—that teaches Black children to distrust their own image. Even language carries memory; African cadence flows where European consonants punch, and Creole keeps the rhythm alive.

What emerges is a case study in Pan-Africanism: different African nations forging one culture, one strategy, one flag on Haitian soil. That lesson still stands. If we want durable power, we need historical literacy, cultural clarity, and unity that can’t be bought or baited. Listen, share with someone who needs the context, and drop a comment with your biggest insight. If this moved you, subscribe and leave a review—let’s put Haiti’s b

Transcript

Setting The Stage: Haitian Roots

SPEAKER_00 0:14

This is a show right here. Peace, world, peace, world, peace, world. How you doing? You're now tuned in the NYP Talk Show. This episode right here is about to be the Haitian Takeover. With all due respect, with all due respect, we got Baba Hassan in the building. I am your host, Mikey Fever. I'm thankful for you all tuning in to check this out. We're about to give you a history of the motherland of Haiti to know the ins and outs while we are in this position. But before we could go any further, I'd like to introduce our brother Baba Hassan to the panel. Peace, brother. How you doing?

SPEAKER_03 1:00

Peace, peace, Mike. How you feeling?

SPEAKER_00 1:03

Good, good, man, good. Amped up, man. Well, definitely, brother. Definitely, man. Where you from, man? Give us a little introduction. Where you from, brother?

SPEAKER_03 1:11

Where you uh so I'm um from Miami Dade County, Florida. Florida house. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. By way of Haiti, by way of Benin, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_02 1:23

Um representative, man.

SPEAKER_03 1:26

Representative for this pan-Africanism from this African worldview, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:30

Salute, salute, most definitely. That's dope, bro. I like that, I like that, man. See, I like how you the inclusion of all, you go on to the Genesis, Africa, you know, from Africa, you know, you know, I we descended from Africa to Haiti into the US, but we never forget our root, which is Africa.

SPEAKER_03 1:48

No, facts, no. You you can't be a Haitian without being African, without without the identity of being African.

SPEAKER_00 1:55

Tell them.

SPEAKER_03 1:56

Um, so you know, no matter how we slice it, everything about you know, the culture is African.

SPEAKER_00 2:02

That's a fact. You know, tell them a lot, a lot of idiots be man, a lot of idiots be talking that stuff like, oh no, we're not African, this and that. I don't care where you're from. If you're melanated from West Africa, whichever part of the world you're at, you you just in Africa. You can never forget that. I get it with ethnicities and nationalities and all, but we can never forget the motherland, most definitely. Yeah. All right, that's that's that's peace, brother. That's peace, man. So you was you were born here in the U.S.

SPEAKER_03 2:30

Yeah, I was born in the U.S., uh, raised in South Florida, Miami, um, 305, you know, um, grew up in in the 80s and the 90s of Miami, which was wow, time, you know, to be Haitian. I'm pretty sure, you know, up there in Brooklyn, y'all kind of experienced, you know, a little bit something that we experienced down here in Miami, but it was it was it was rough growing up in the 90s and 80s, you know, as uh first generation.

SPEAKER_00 2:57

Haitian, oh first generation as well. I'm I'm first generation, and trust me. I heard it growing up. I could say from third grade and up, the whole the jokes of the Haitian booty scratcher, you eat cats and all that. You know, a lot of that was for children who were misinformed, propaganda, you know what I'm saying? Something that's different. And so mind you, mind you, I was born here, but you know, once they heard my last name, they're like, oh Haitian.

unknown 3:21

Right.

SPEAKER_00 3:21

Let me enjoy every bit of it because I was throwing bowls for everybody, man. Listen, I had no problem that's going up. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, no, no.

Growing Up Haitian In Miami

SPEAKER_03 3:28

Listen, listen, I listen, I learned how to throw these, you know what I'm saying? Because you know, you know, I had to grow up Haitian, so I had to know how to throw these hands efficiently, you know what I'm saying? Um definitely, man. It just was what it was. Like nobody was coming to save you as a Haitian, you know. Um, and down here it was it was really bad. Like there was a community, and anybody from Miami watching knows what I'm talking about. There was a community called Lodge Mart, right? That sort of still exists to this day. And uh there was a bridge that we used to have to walk across, you know, from Little Haiti and whatever, and they would actually throw Haitians off of that bridge.

SPEAKER_01 4:05

Get out of here, really?

SPEAKER_03 4:07

Yeah, no, this is this is facts. This is facts. This is facts. Matter of fact, down here in South Florida, we used to have to get out of school 30 minutes and 45 minutes early before the other students.

SPEAKER_00 4:18

Yeah, I heard about the Haitian Haitian um freshman Haitian Fridays. That was in New York too. I heard about that. The Haitian Fridays, you know.

SPEAKER_03 4:25

Yeah. But again, again, you know, propaganda and you know, a lot of stuff that was, you know, bestowed upon our brothers and sisters to have them feel the way they feel, you know, um, which is kind of similar to what we experience in today, you know, to some degree on social media, but I we'll get to that. I'll let you go ahead and finish dropping the intro.

SPEAKER_00 4:44

Uh no, no, no, no doubt. No, don't definitely. We're gonna get all to that. You know, I like to like, as the gods say, we scroll from knowledge to born. We like to bring people to the beginning on why the propaganda was there and you know where we are today. Because now we see a new thing uprising with this whole um FBA versus the Caribbean versus the continental Africans. And I get it. I support, like, you know, you know, you know, determine your determine your um I'm all about the self-determination and and you know, creating your narrative with the whole FBA. You finding out who you are instead of having somebody call you um you went from Negro, nigga, Afro-American, in now black and now foundational black Americans. So, you know, you're finding your identity. You gotta be here, you know what I'm saying? So we can never take away from that. But to see that evolve into something with Caribbean people versus FBA, FBA versus Caribbean, then they go on at the Continental African continental Africans, to me, it's just it's just pure division from there. It's very divisive. It sounds like something that came from the closet of white supremacy, a tactic to create division. I'm and I'm not with that. You know what I'm saying? I I don't respect that. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_03 6:02

And and and and and to be honest, you know, I I agree 100%, you know, they have the right to self-determination. That self-determination should not come on the back of, you know, uh displaced Africans in America, you know what I'm saying? It should not come on the back of having to like you can get reparations, you can self-determination without having to name call and talk down on, or you know, um, you know, do all the other things that we see taking place online. Um, all those things are viable. You can get to reparations without having to name call and talk disparaging about homelands and go back to your homeland. Like that, that's the part that becomes divisive, right?

SPEAKER_02 6:43

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 6:43

And and yeah, and this divisiveness, you know, is not new. You know, if you go back to um Marcus Garvey and you read uh the philosophies and opinions of Marcus Garvey, you know, they they started a movement called Garvey Must Go, you know, and that was a real movement by W.E. The Boys and uh I can't remember the other gentleman's name right now, so for the second time I'll skip it. Um you know, they but they had a movement called Garvey Must Go, where you know, Africans in America or Black Americans or Foundation of Black Americans, whatever you know the term was at that time, where they their whole thing was like Garvey got to get up out of here, you know, Garvey making it Garvey making it hot for everybody. So, you know, the uh uh Randolph, a Philip Randolph was the gentleman with uh W.E. Du Bois. But um this this thing it it existed, you know, um because that that ceiling of white supremacy has always existed inside of us. And I do want to say this before we move on. Uh I don't want to make it seem like the conversation is one-sided, where we aren't saying things about them or they said things about us. We all have to come to a healing, you know, um, of the diaspora. Because you know, people grew up in in different environments and they say things, you know, Africans say things, a Kata, etc. etc. So, right, cool. I don't I don't want to make it seem one-sided and biased just because I'm on the other side of the receiving uh end of it.

Diaspora Division And Self-Determination

SPEAKER_00 8:04

You know what, brother, I'm glad that you said that because I'm the same way, I'm very impartial. I I don't I don't partake in the bias because as you mentioned, it comes from your upbringing. You see, in my household, you know, my father, my mother, they were very welcome, and we didn't practice that division of we're Haitian, this is who they are. Because, you know, one thing my pops always say, you know, their history basically is your history. They suffered the same way as you. You know, you may have been liberated longer, but let me tell you, it's the same thing. You know, as long as they had that dark skin, they were considered um, you know, less than human beings in the eyes of a bigot, of a European bigot. So this is why I want to bring an end to the conflict amongst FBA, continental Africans, and Caribbean people and come to a level of understanding. Understand is the highest form of love because it doesn't matter, man. We all catch in hell. I don't care how you put it. One had a French enslaver, one had a uh Spaniard, and one had a British. And you always are getting our butt kicks by them. So let's just stop the BS and just move forward and learn to elevate. So, you know, with without further ado, let's get into the show, man. It's gonna be very basic, man. Takes people to from knowledge to born about the Haitian Revolution. What was the Haitian Revolution, man?

SPEAKER_03 9:24

Um, as Thomas Jefferson put it, the Haitian Revolution was something that that you know sparked a revolution. It it caused trouble um in the 18th century. You know, Thomas Jefferson and other European, you know, colonizers was in fear of the Haitian Revolution. Uh it, I don't want to say it's single-handedly, but it was one of the moments in history that that put a huge strain on the slavecracy of the world, right? So let's take in consideration that in the 1800s, everywhere in the world there was a form of slavery, European slavery, right? Nowhere in the world could you have gone and be free, you know, um, other than this small island called Haiti, right? You couldn't go to the continent because the continent was colonized. You couldn't go to the Caribbean because they were in full swing of slavery. You couldn't go to South America, Central America, you couldn't go to Australia. Nowhere could you go in this world to be free as a black man and walk with your with your head up than the island of Haiti, right? And so, you know, this this uh break in the slave occurra was a it was a a shatter of the idea of white supremacy, that white people could be beat, right? And that's what the Haitian Revolution did. It showed that white people aren't invincible, that they aren't, you know, these uh the gods of the earth, that they couldn't be taken down and ran out of their property. So that was, in my opinion, and in my research, the genesis of breaking the chains of slavery and also colonialism, you know. Um, so for those who don't know, the Haitian Revolution sparked up and uh well actually the Haitian Revolution, actually, if you want to be technical about it, it started when the first African uh stepped foot on or was taken to the island of Haiti, right? Because we often think of the revolution as when you know they start fighting in mass numbers. But I mean, you you know, the revolution started once we got on the boat. Once we, you know, once we got on the boat and we realized, you know, we were not going back home, Haitians fought, they died. There's records of you know, um Igbo people jumping, you know, off the ships, you know. Um you know, a lot of us come from the Congo, so there's there's uh uh stories of that. Um then obviously in the 1500s you had you know other rebellions that took place that was that was quoiled or squashed, excuse me. Um but the Haitian Genesis that we speak of, you know, started in 1791, you know. Um and and and a lot of people think that it started with Tucson, right? You know, um, and and that's not necessarily the case. You had people like Bayasu, right, who was one of the founding fathers of the Haitian Revolution. You had people like Makandau, right? Uh but by the time Bayasu is ran out of Florida, that's when Tucson is coming up as a leader. You know, Bayasu and Tucson had a whole you know situation that they had going on, and Bayasu had to escape to Florida. And when he escaped to Florida, he actually became the highest second general in the Spanish army, right? So George George Bayasu. Uh and he helped turn Florida into a huge maroon colony in Florida through the Spanish, through the Spanish Crown. This is this is document history here.

SPEAKER_00 12:47

I heard about this, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:48

Yeah. So, you know, again, to kind of make it short and plain, the Haitian Revolution was the catalyst, in my opinion, again, and the genesis to sparking African people and and all, you know, indigenous people to fight back on a mass scale. Because there's always been rebellions, and and you know, nobody likes to be oppressed. So there's always been forms of rebellion and skirmishes, but the organization of the Haitian Revolution, the plotting of the Haitian Revolution, that that was a that was something never seen before and and never done again since, you know. So uh it was world-changing, it changed, it changed the landscape of the world.

SPEAKER_00 13:30

That's powerful right there. I'm glad I'm glad that you mentioned that because you know I'm learning about the bioschool. I didn't know bios out in Florida with the Maroons out there, and you know, later on I learned in life that some Maroons were in Jamaica as well. They ran up to Jamaica, and we you spoke about you know him being in the first one. Then we had Makandal, and then it was Duty Bookman, I believe. After Duty Bookman, who was oh who did you read that?

SPEAKER_03 13:58

Uh Felice, uh her name slipping my knob, her name right now.

SPEAKER_00 14:03

Um we can't forget her.

SPEAKER_03 14:08

We can't forget her.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

Yeah, um, Sony Belair, something like that. Sony. Yep, Saty Belair. Sati Belair, yeah. And there's quite a few, quite a few sisters that were involved. But we but we um like the connection with the maroons, but Duty Bookman went to Haiti. He was originally from a plantation from Jamaica, went to Haiti, and then he was like inciting given words and stuff like that.

Why Haiti Terrified Slave Empires

SPEAKER_03 14:33

So the idea about it is the thing about it is he was a Muslim. He was a Muslim from from the West African region. A lot of West Africans at the time were Muslim, and uh he would carry around a Quran, right? So they would call him Bukman because he always carried around a book, he was a man, Bukman. And uh it was it was also said that they actually burnt the Quran to his side of his stomach, you know, as a way to like mock him or something like that. Um but uh yeah, and and and I just want to backtrack a little bit. So when we use the term maroon, maroon is the same thing as a seminal, right? Yeah, okay. It just depends on it just depends on what language you're speaking. I I think when we think about slavery, we we think about it in one context, that it was just slavery. But what we have to understand is we're dealing with different European imperialists, right? So we got the French, they practice slavery differently than the Spanish practice slavery, the Spanish practice slavery differently than the Brit British practice slavery. So, but how we how we've been taught about slavery is that it's just just one way that it was just practiced, and that was not um that was not so. If it was so, I believe that we would have uh uh thrown up the the the shackles of slavery years before, because what happens is is that if it was one way across the board throughout all the the lands, people would have rebelled a lot faster, things would have moved a lot faster. But because they had different ways of practice slavery, you know, whereas in in Spanish certain parts, you know, if you uh were mixed race, you were you were kind of a part of the family. You know, you were you were the you were the uh the the negro, the negro, you know what I'm saying? Spanish were more welcome a little bit, the French were more freaky with it, you know. They were more into making, yeah, and brutal and very brutal, you know, they were more into making you know that you their sex slaves, right? So that's why when you go down to Louisiana, they they have a whole hierarchy of colors with creoles and light skins and dark skins and the French, the mulattos, right? The French practice slavery a little more different, right? And then the British, they were just cruel with it. They they just if you weren't white, if you were white, we don't care if you were mixed race, it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_00 16:48

And they were butt breaking the men.

SPEAKER_03 16:50

And and and they were butt breaking the men. So it it it they practice slavery differently. You know, you even have um what were they called? Uh, I forgot what they were calling the plantations, where they had certain ways of uh uh task plantations, right? Task plantations worked in a way where that if you got all your work done a certain amount of time, you can actually you can actually go out and and and work for yourself, you know. And so, yeah, so slavery, that's why they call it the uh they call it the uh I forgot what they call it the term for slavery, but uh it was um it was unique wherever you went. It wasn't one way, it wasn't it wasn't one the peculiar institution, that's what it was called. The peculiar institution, peculiar meaning that it's weird, it's a weird way of being, and so it wasn't one way throughout all forms of imperialistic slavery. So going back to what I was saying about the word maroon, maroon just means seminal because though you you you're talking about the French, you're talking about the Spanish and the English. So maroon is how you would say it in you know, an English term or whatever the case may be. Seminole is like another way of saying runaway. So it's kind of like the same thing: maroon, seminal, etc. They mean the same thing essentially.

SPEAKER_00 18:07

All right, got you. And prior before, like, I like to understand have an understanding for those because some there's like um I see little complexities and battles amongst, I hate to say it amongst Haitians or Dominicans online about who was an island first. Was it the African or was it the indigenous Taino or Arawak, right? Like I want to get into the concept of like, all right, both Taino and African were victims of slavery, right? Because you know, after Bartholomew Delacosis, that scumbag saw the abuse of the uh the Taino people, he said, let's go to West Africa and get some you know people to come work here. We can force them into slavery because these people are too weak and they are dying out, you know, because we are obliterating them with diseases and the atrocities that are being committed against them, right? I like to let me pause.

SPEAKER_03 18:57

Let me pause right there for a second, but I want to interject because I don't want to forget. Let me stop right there for a second.

SPEAKER_02 19:02

Right, right.

SPEAKER_03 19:02

So the reason, the reason why, and this is this is a part that a lot of historians and scholars missed over. Uh yeah, essentially, not saying that I cracked the code, but the reason why uh Africans were more suitable to uh deal with European diseases is because we have been dealing with Europeans longer than the natives, right? You gotta remember Africans, Africans, Christopher Columbus was already in West Africa for a long period of time. That's how he got the maps from the Moors and things like that. So we were already having we already have contact with the Europeans, you know, from 7 Eleven AD to when we were in Spain, when we were in Europe. So we our body was more immune because we already had been dealing with them prior to that, right? And so that's why we didn't die off when we came in contact with them. Now, the the natives, the Tainos who just were meeting them, they didn't have that immune system to deal with that because they just had met them. So I just wanted to interject that before you went further.

SPEAKER_00 20:02

No, I'm glad you did, because I because you know that's something I always figured out too, because not every person that was carried over from Africa. This could be correct me if I'm wrong, it could be theory or not, but I always say not every African actually came from Africa during the time of slavery in the New World. Because I'm thinking about the fall of Granada from the Moors in Spain, they were already there. So a lot of them may have come over from Spain straight to Hispaniola, less known to as the um Dominican Republic in Haiti. Am I correct with that?

Origins Before 1791: Early Revolts

SPEAKER_03 20:32

Well, I mean, yeah, we know that there was trading going back and forth uh with the native population, what we want to call the native population here in the United States. I mean, you have you have you have cups, you have spears, you have uh matter of fact, there was a study done not too long ago, and people could look this up where they found uh cocaine in Egypt, some Egyptians' mummies, right? Like they found cocaine, right? And as we know, you know, uh cocaine is growing in South America. Like that, the cocoa plant, whatever comes from South America. And so how would that trade even be taking place if Africans weren't going back and forth before that? You know, so we know that a lot of Africans uh navigating the seas already, yeah. They would navigate the seas, right? Yeah, um, that's you know, there's even currents that can literally take you from West Africa into the Caribbean, into South America and back up to Africa again. Uh uh Yerugu uh did this in the in the like the 1960s. He did it in a canoe boat, right? He did that and showed that you can go from West Africa. So we know that, and you could go to Ababa Bukhari, you could go to um uh Massa Musa. I mean, it's so many, you know, uh uh theories, or not theories, but examples that we can show that we were traveling and circumnavigating the world before the European even thought about you know leaving Europe. Um, I think but I what I think is a lot of people confuse the argument and say that we were here and we But not from Africa. So just because we beat the Europeans here don't mean that we didn't come from somewhere else. You know, um, and I think that's the the the confusion and the the the shelf people like to hang their hat on, you know, that well we were here first. Okay, I I get that, I understand that, but that's still not where we originated from, where our culture originated from. There is no, you know, um there is no older culture than now Valley civilization or you know, um or you know, those those those those bones and those artifacts that come out of East Africa. So I mean we could play that game because you know it's easy to run from Africa, but the reality is yes, we were traveling back and forth here, like you know, back and forth. And um, you know, we a lot of us were here before the Europeans got here, but also Africa is our home. Africa is where we developed our culture, developed our languages, developed our way of being, and we we traveled.

SPEAKER_00 23:02

Got you. So we we got we got so we got so we established that the Africans were already navigating the seas, we already making moves, and you know, we were in contact with the with the with the with the Europeans already dealing with the Moors when we conquered Spain and with the the um indigenous people trade within trade and stuff like that with them, right?

SPEAKER_03 23:23

So yes, I I just I just want to I wanna I want to correct that, right? Not correct that, but I want to build on that. Sorry. Uh we we we didn't conquer, right? Civilized.

SPEAKER_00 23:33

Civilized, okay.

SPEAKER_03 23:34

Let's say that civilized, yeah, it's a difference because when the Africans went to, and you know, I see a lot of people say this now.

SPEAKER_00 23:40

Oh, you know, we conquer Europe, we can't civilize that's the term we've been we we got accustomed to hearing, you know, we conquered what, but in reality, we did civilize, you know, mathematics, sciences, even how to take a proper shower.

SPEAKER_03 23:54

Correct, correct, and and I know some people might say, Why do you need to correct that? Like, that's so it's it's somatic things like that, but no, it's it's it's true too, because how we tell the story determines how we feel about the story, determines how we behave towards the story and how we move throughout our day-to-day, right? Because if we say things like conquer, if people turn around and say, Well, we just came back and reconquered y'all and enslaved y'all. And it's like, nah, that's not what it was. We civilized Europeans, you know, and you and and you guys came and conquered and did all those things. So I just wanted to add that clarification. You know, appreciate you for allowing me. No, no, no, it's smoke.

SPEAKER_00 24:32

It's all good. Listen, man, this platform is it's all about gaining understanding so we could we as people could move forward. We you know, we don't we we don't deal with egos over here, man. Yes, sir. Yes, sir, yes sir. I'm I'm glad you that you mentioned that. And I just want to I want to get into this context. So we know that you know Bartholomew said, let's go get some Africans because they are more immune, they're stronger, they could they could deal with this terrain, any abuse whatsoever in the name of God in the Catholic Church, because he was a kid, remember, he he was uh uh a pope or something like that, I believe. All right, so that so this sucker came in the name of God and said, Let's enslave some Africans, right? Question I'd like to know when that took place, right? Why was Saint Domain not known as Haiti so important economically at that time?

Duty Bookman, Faith, And Maroons

SPEAKER_03 25:23

So when we talk about economics, economics is just a set of relations to a certain thing. So at one point in time, salt was more valuable than gold, right? Kyrie shells was more valuable than anything. Economics is just a set of relations to a thing. If I can convince you that this thing is important, then I can create a form of economics, I can create a form of trade, right? That's what economics is, how you relate to a thing. And so, with that being said, one of the newfound things for Europeans was sugar, yeah, right? And tea was becoming a thing because they were also, you know, making their way over there in Asia and dealing with the teas and things like that. And so uh tea was a thing, and Haiti was a huge producer of sugar, yeah, and so it became highly important um for them to get a hold of that and maintain that uh because that was their whole economy, right? It could have been anything, but at the at the time it was sugar, you know. Um, and so we also have to remember at that time, too, uh Europeans were scrambling for power, right? And Haiti becomes important because it gives France the economic superiority of every other European nation because it produces so much sugar.

SPEAKER_02 26:52

Exactly, right?

SPEAKER_03 26:53

And so Britain is mad because they feel like they control the seas, and it's like, wait, how y'all got all this sugar? And Spain is mad, you know, so Haiti becomes um economically important because the new thing of that time is sugar. So we went from salt to gold to sugar to now it's it's intellectual property, right? Where you you know, apps and things like that, and so that's becoming like a form of economics in some type of way. Um, so Haiti becomes important uh during that time period because white people wanted tea, and they felt that our lives were dispensable for sugar, that that that sugar was more important than African lives.

SPEAKER_00 27:32

Exactly. Yeah, suckers at the time, yeah. All right, so when that took place, the sugar, they constantly exploit the people, exploit the land, because you know they are basically pillaging, raping, and all that to get their sugar. Economically, France is growing now. And prior to that, to set it back a little bit, there was issues, conflicts between Spain and France when they landed on the island of Hispaniola, known as Santo Domingo, known as modern-day Dominican Republic and Haiti. There were many wars between them that came up with a treaty, I believe, at one point, right? To stop the fighting that, you know, amongst them, where they parcel the island into two parts, you know, one side belonging to um Spain, one belonged to France, right? And you know, sugarcane was the biggest import export. How much money were they actually accumulating at that time? If you could come up with a number, whoo!

SPEAKER_03 28:28

Um, so different economists. Um they they they have given it different numbers, but a lot of people say well into the billions. I'll I'll I'll even give you an example on how important Haiti was to France. We all know that they sold the Louisiana Purchase to maintain and try to hold on to Haiti. So that island meant more to France than Louisiana, Kentucky, uh, St. Louis, uh, you know, half of Texas, Chicago, uh, Chicago, you know, like that, that land mass was so important because of that that sugar that it was producing, that they they sold for pennies on a dollar, you know, all that area for that little bit. So again, different economists say different things. Some say 20 billion, you know, some people say 100 billion, you know, some, but I mean, the numbers were were crazy that Napoleon couldn't let go of that island because he knew what what it was producing. And and it came at a heavy cost. It came at a heavy cost. You know, you know, most Africans on that island never lived past, you know, seven, eight years on that island. You know, you were lucky. You were lucky if you were living past seven, eight years. And that is also a reason why Haiti is so African in it in its way, because we we always had fresh Africans coming to the island, and it kept that that that African culture, that that rah-rah, that blood vibration, yeah, that blood. Slavery in Haiti never really became generational because they died off so fast. So we were able to hold on to the drums, to the language, to the et cetera, where in other parts of the world, you know, slavery became generational, and then their Africanness began to die down a little bit. You know, they're still African, of course, but it began to like subset, you know, because it became generational. And as it becomes generational, you become you become less connected to Africa. That makes it sense.

SPEAKER_00 30:34

You see, the reason why I bring that up, I'm glad that you that you broke that down for us, and thank you for that, is because with all that being said, the billions of dollars, here's the here's the BS that happened. We're creeping in from that time into the revolution, the start of it from 1791, right? So you had some indigenous and some Africans coming together saying, you know what, we're gonna revolt. We're gonna overthrow master, and we're gonna take back what's you know what's ours, our dignity, our self-respect, our human, our human side of us, right? Because you know, they would you know, slavery devalues some people, takes away from you, speaking a different person's language, they force me to live a certain lifestyle which is not yours. So 1791 breaks out, they start fighting. Mark and Dallas, you know, hit it off with the poisoning of the slave masters, and the others came in, said, you know, the sisters came in. Then we come into Toussaint, who himself was respected by the he was a member of the French army at one point, right? He was a member, respected general, I believe, or something like that. And he said, You know what? I'm partaking in this. So Toussaint goes on, starts the war. We defeated the French, whatsoever, but then he felt a certain loyalty to them where he said, Okay, we got our liberty and all, but you're gonna respect us as you know, as as people, and being that I'm a member of your army, you know, basically he wanna be accepted. Right? Which was the setup to me. Like he kind of no disrespect to the elder, but kind of you know, kissed no kissed, was kissing a little butt. Right? We could say that, right? I know I'm gonna get flack for that, but oh well. You know what I'm saying? And it cost him his life, right?

SPEAKER_03 32:22

So there's a great book. I'm sorry, brother. Will you finish? I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00 32:25

Now there's a part where he even tried to tell the newly free slaves now, return back to the plantation, right? You can continue. That part that part of the story always gets me, man. I don't I don't understand that.

How Different Empires Enslaved Differently

SPEAKER_03 32:40

So there's a great book by the ancestor Jacob Carruthers, and the book is called The Irritated Genie. And it's a collection of essays, you know, um, dealing with the Haitian Revolution. And this this ancestor brilliantly broke down the difference between the irritated genie and uh uh I can't, the irritated genie and the phantom of liberty, yeah, right? And so basically, the phantom of liberty has always existed in any African revolution. So if you look at Jean Jacques Desalin, and then you look at Tucson Overtour, right? And you take you take that archetype, right? Which the the Phantom of Liberty would be Toussaint Le Overtour, where he thinks that we just have to get along, we can work through it, and we can fix it out. And then you have the irritated genie, right? Who is Jean Jacques Dessaline, who says, cut their heads off.

SPEAKER_00 33:35

Who's the Malcolm X?

SPEAKER_03 33:38

And then you fast forward, right? And then you have WE the boys, and you have Frederick Douglass, and then you have, you know, you can see throughout history though those archetypes of those men who were one man, he's he's standing up for his people, he believes what he's doing is right, you know, the Martin Luther King type, and then you have the Malcolm X type, right? And so we've been following, unfortunately, that that that uh that phantom of liberty throughout history, and we always look at the irritated genie as the one who's you're you're the one who's really making it bad for us because you're irritating the white people and you're you're making them mad and you're talking about corruption and yeah, correct, yeah, agitator, you know, right, you're an agitator, right? And but what they really what they're really saying is the thing. They're really just saying the like no matter how we come to them, not how we approach it, it's going to have to be a situation where we have to go head to head with these people, you know. Um, and that's just that's just the reality of it. You know, that's not tough talking, that's not conspiracy talk, that's just the reality. If you want to get these people's foot off your neck, it's not gonna come through through negotiation. You know, they know how to deal with them with themselves, they know how to interact with themselves. You see, Russia and Ukraine, Ukraine not begging and saying, hey, why can't we be friends? Ukraine saying we need some weapons to fight back, you know. Um, so and and and to kind of pull it back a little bit to get back on topic. Um, Tucson, uh, unfortunately, he was he believed in that phantom of liberty. He believed that you know we can be one as people. And I'll even I'll even give you a better one, right? There was a uh a white man named Santanax, right? Yeah, and he told he said, Tucson, you got to eliminate every white person on this island if you want to be free, even me. He said, even me, because I will be a poison. He said, even me, you have to get rid of me. You know what Tucson did? Tucson sent him back to France. Tucson got him up out of there and sell him back to France. I say that I say that to say that they know when you hear a white person talking like that, when you hear a John Brown, you know, and you you hear that, they know who they are. Yeah, they know how they are, and so we we need to take heed to that. But unfortunately, you know, uh a lot of us just uh just don't understand war.

SPEAKER_00 36:07

Sorry, but anyway, um yeah, but you know a lot of us don't understand that we at war.

SPEAKER_03 36:12

And when I mean at war, I don't mean it always has to be physical, it can be you know, uh social, economical, cultural, religious war, whatever, you know. Uh there's an old saying black people hate everything about slavery but Christianity.

SPEAKER_00 36:26

So that's that's hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Let me give it, let me give that a sound right there. Yo, it's a fact because you know, you go you go to the majority of people's homes, you know what I'm saying? You find Jesus, even you know, in within our culture, and no disrespect to voodoo, the synchronicity of voodoo that we use, we had to use Catholic saints. And I just learned that the other, you know, I've been new to that, but really I applied it in the sense where I went by my altars and I removed every saint photo and just went straight to Vebs. So I'm telling you, it's something that has been passed down, and I'm like, hold up. I get it, no disrespect of voodoo. We we um hide the meaning of the true um the energy behind it, the deity that's behind that image. But I'm like, I don't have to do this no more. I'm gonna hide and what I practice. I'm gonna remove that. With all due respect, I'm gonna remove that, and I'm gonna put a vet. Of course, of course, you know what I'm saying? Of course. So and it and again, it's not me being me, me speaking like this, me being pro, pro my people, pro-black, whatsoever you want to call it, doesn't mean I'm anti-white, I'm anti-white supremacy, I'm anti-BS, anti-devil devilishment, as the gods say, and the and the NOI said, because they are also black devils too, and we're gonna get into that within the Haitian Revolution. They were also black devils and that sold our people out. If you look at the condition of the island today, it's not because not only of what the indemnum that French put that the French put on us with the debt for us liberating ourselves and the mistakes that we made ourselves as a nation, but our own people sold us out as well. So let's I don't want to go too far.

SPEAKER_03 38:07

No, no, no. I definitely I definitely want to get on the topic of black devils because um I personally, from an African Senate worldview, meaning I put Africa at the center of every all my thoughts, behaviors, and etc., I don't subscribe to the idea of black devils, I subscribe to the idea of uh devil helpers. You get what I'm saying? Because there is, in my opinion, there is only one devil on this earth, and it is the white man and the white woman or Yerugal, whatever you want to call them. Um, and I'm and I'm speaking from a cultural point of view, you get what I'm saying? Because culture operates and dictates how we move throughout this world, and so um they are the impet the epitome of what it means to be a devil in their behavior, and in their cultural uh uh uh behavior to other to other people. Um, and that's that. Now, do they have devil helpers? Of course. They got Indian devil helpers, Arab devil helpers, they have you know uh uh black devil helpers, of course. But at the end of the day, it is always them, the deceivers, who are always the ones benefiting from the devilish uh behavior.

SPEAKER_00 39:26

All right, that that's peace right there. And I'm I'm glad that you put that out there. So back to like Toussaint, he he spared the life of Sentinox, right? Sent him back to France, and then he's he put the the newly freed slaves back in the field to say, okay, we're gonna build a nation, but I'm trying to appease to France real quick. Greatest mistake he made, he took that he took that trip, went to France on a ship, and never came back. Died in regrets in that dungeon that he was in. So now it let us the revolution now is in the hands of Jean-Jacques Dessalines, as you put it, the irritated genie, the Obu Ferai spirit. And his thing was coupe that bule kai, which means cut every head, burn down every house, right? Can you take us take us through that journey of um Jean-Jacques Dessalines? His approach?

Taino, Africa, And Pre‑Columbian Links

SPEAKER_03 40:22

So, yeah, so Destiny's approach um was one of from becoming student to master, right? And from an early age, he was raised by a woman. And and that's one thing we cannot do, we cannot neglect the African woman presence in the Haitian Revolution because if 75% to 65% of the soldiers were women and children. Now, because of European ways of telling history, right, his story, right, the the story gets more focused on the men of the Haitian Revolution. They become the pioneers. But when you talk about who who like when you talk about who was who was Henry Christoph's you know chief uh uh uh um uh soldiers, right? It was women. When you talk about who who Dessaline used as bodyguards, it was women, you know. Um, so we can't ever forget the women of the Haitian Revolution. Uh, but Jin Jacques Dessaline was raised by a woman named Tantoya, right? Tontoya and uh yeah, yeah, Tantoya. And um, you know, she was from Daomi, she was a Daomi warrior, right? Uh one of the interesting parts of that was taking place at that time is there was a civil war that was taking place in the Congo, and so obviously, you know, Europeans inflamed that, and so there was a lot of catching and selling and catching and selling amongst the Africans. Now, you were selling Daomi women, and if anybody knows the story about Daomi women, these were some fierce warriors, and so one of the things that Tantoya trained uh Talene on is that you will do for Haiti what I could not do for my country, what I could not do for Daomi, and you will free Daomi. And so he always had a rebellious spirit. Um, it you know, there's there's uh stories about him by his back was totally whipped up from like he had no space for regular skin. His whole back was welched up because he would continuously fight, you know, and then eventually he was bought by uh an African by the name of Dessaline. And so uh upon his purchase, he said to him, he said, I fought the white man my whole life to get out of slavery. And he was like, I'm gonna fight a black slaver too. And so the guy Dessaline told him he was he was like, No, no, no, I I didn't purchase you to enslave you, I purchased you to set you free, you know, and if you want to stay here, you can work here, and et cetera, et cetera. So he was purchased by Destiny and raised by and raised by this warrior woman, uh Tantoya. And um so Tucson, Tucson is killed and or well, died, and Dessaline rises to power. Now, a lot of people you know often go into the idea that Destiny was a uh a big that he killed other white people, and I heard the same thing too. You know, we we get into these these stories, man, but there has been numerous accounts that said that that is not true. Matter of fact, Dessaline even allowed some of the Polish uh uh soldiers to join the Hitchen Revolution.

SPEAKER_00 43:34

Kazal, right? The town on now, Kazal Haiti, yeah, right, where he gave them land and things like that.

SPEAKER_03 43:41

He even allowed mulattos to be a part of the the general armies and etc. So uh the one thing he put in the constitution is that though, if you are in Haiti, you are black. You are considered to be black, even if you're white, you're considered to be black. Now, do I agree with that today? No, but I understand what. His what his uh what his concept was at that time. So we I just want to dispel that that he killed all the white people. That's not true. Um but he does come with a level of fierceness.

SPEAKER_00 44:13

That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_03 44:15

Yeah, he he's he is a beast. He he I was, in my opinion, in my opinion, uh he would be the father of what we call now guerrilla warfare. Jean-Jacques Desselin would be the father of what we call. I mean, I'm talking about burning down whole cities, you know, uh uh having people lay down in grass and and make certain noises and calls and things like that, and then we all spring up from you know the ground and attack, you know. Um, you know, he did that. He was a military uh genius. You know, one of the things that I eventually got to get tattooed on, one of his sayings, he said, even if you see me submit to the French a thousand times, just know that I will betray them a thousand and one times, you know.

SPEAKER_01 45:01

And I love that, I love that, I love that.

SPEAKER_03 45:05

Yeah, he said, even if you see me submit to them and they capture me, just know that at the first chance that I get, I will betray them for this revolution. And so uh eventually, you know, um they have their last battles um in Cap Haitian, and they run the French out, and Dessaline becomes, you know, the man, you know, he becomes the the Emperor, you know, uh Emperor Dessaline.

SPEAKER_00 45:33

Yeah. And and the color of the flag at the time was black and red, right? It wasn't that blue that we have now.

SPEAKER_03 45:40

No, so so the blue, so the blue and the red, if you know, if you study vexology, uh, you know, it's kind of like the study of the study of flags or whatever. Um, that came that came out of the psyche of the mulattos, right? A lot of people try to put that on Dessaline, but it came out of the the the psyche of the mulattos, of them wanting to kind of be with the French. But Dessaline said, okay, you know, that's there's a story where he ripped the flag and then put the blue and the red together. Nobody could really nobody can really say that's the true story, but when he when he unveiled the flag that he unveiled, it was black and red.

SPEAKER_00 46:19

You know, did it have the the lines on it?

SPEAKER_03 46:22

I want to correct the lines that came later. That came later with Henry Christoph. That came later with Henry Christoph, yeah. And uh that black and red flag was the inspiration between the red, black, and green colors that we wear today. Oh so yeah, so Marcus Garvey just kind of incorporated the red, black, and green to to go into so that that that color pattern, color scheme came from um um Haiti. But the blue and red flag, yeah, that's that's whenever that flag is flying in Haiti, um, you can I can guarantee you that the country is being ran by mulattoes.

SPEAKER_00 46:55

Exactly for sure. Well, it's happening today because you know there's it's a small group of individuals that are actually running Haiti right now that has it in the position that it is, and it's the same thing that happened when Haiti liberated itself from the French. That debt was placed on us. Like I have never heard in the history where a oppressor must be paid um reparations from the enslaved.

SPEAKER_03 47:17

Well, let's examine that, right? So, so so let's let's let's look at we got Dessili, who's assassinated two years after he becomes emperor. He's killed by a group of mulattos, right? Alexander Persion, Alexander Persign, and and Boyer, right? Yeah, they they uh conspired to have him killed. They took him. Right? And you know what's so crazy? When you go to Haiti, you know what's so crazy? When you when they go to Haiti, they actually have Alexander Persine and Dessaline sharing a a a coffin.

SPEAKER_00 47:50

Really? But bro, I thought like I like Dessaline's death is similar to what we hear in Kemet with um oh I forgot his name. Horizon Horace or Sarah, Horace who gets cut, chopped up, right? And then 21 pieces, yes, sir. Yeah, so that happened with that that happened with Dessaline, right? But I have heard uh stories in different accounts. I don't know how true it is that they never could find his body parts whatsoever, his remains. Is that is that true?

SPEAKER_03 48:16

So, so um Basil, there was a woman named Basile who they call her Defali Defi Defile Basile, and um she was a little out of it, but she was very loyal to Desali, right? And she's actually the one who collected his uh body parts, collected his uniform and everything. They weren't able to find everything but enough to have a burial or whatever like that. Um, it was even said, not confirmed, but it was said that during the earthquake in uh 2010, that the the crypt that Dessaline had, his skull, his skull rolled out of it. Now, I don't know if that's true or not. It could be folklore, you know, same thing like mermaids in Haiti, but I was told, I was told by some some some credible sources that you know when the earthquake happened, uh Dessaline's skull rolled out into the street. But yeah, so when you go to Haiti, they they actually do have um Alexander Pitsion and Tucson, I mean not Tucson, uh Dessaline actually in a crypt together.

Tucson’s “Phantom Of Liberty” Dilemma

SPEAKER_00 49:23

Insult. I would say completely separate that because and I think that's why you know we already know what what the uh outside influences have done to Haiti, these so-called superpowers that you know sold our people out, our own people sold us out as well, infiltrated and whatever, create the propaganda and the you know the constant conflict that we under. But I think for me, we the people need to honor desalines more. I'm not saying do not honor um Toussaint, because Toussaint is like as as Professor Aina Bello puts it, Tussaint is like the leg bar, but I'm saying we need to honor Dessalines more because I think the people are lacking that fighting spirit right now. And I mean that respectfully because right now people need to not only speak about the Haitian Revolution, but to really incorporate into their mindset because you know, look at the way the country is. You got these gangs. I don't want to call them gangs, I call them paid militias, private militias that are funding that are funded with money and weapons, because Haiti does not produce weapons. You know what I'm saying? So we know what you know where those guns are coming from, alphabet boys, you know what I'm saying, and these oligarchs. We need to really look into that, examine that, and people need to incorporate a dishonest spirit and say, I'm not gonna sell my people out. I'll do whatever it takes, because yo. Like, come on, man, you the first to do it. It could be done again.

SPEAKER_03 50:52

Yeah, yes, sir. I I I want to step back um for a second and uh talk about the the reparations that was paid to France. So, what I was doing is I was I was uh referring to how Destiny was assassinated, and then you had Henry Christophe, who came up to power, but then you also had um Alexander Pertion in the south portion of Haiti, right? With his group of mulattos and blacks and whatever the case may be, and then you had Henry Christophe in the north. So Haiti was split in basically two fractions.

SPEAKER_00 51:23

Yeah, I heard about that.

SPEAKER_03 51:24

And so, and so what Henry Christoph did is that he recognized that he had the Spanish to the other side of the island. He had someone below him, Alexander Pettion, who was friendly with the French, who won who wanted to kiss the French behind. You know, Alexander Perssian even said one time to um to Tucson, he said, I will not stay in a country that's that's ran by black Frenchmen. And he left on the expedition back to uh to to to France and then came back to re-enslave them. So he actually came back on the expedition to re-enslave the black people with Napoleon in them, right? So what Henry Kristal realized is that he had enemies to the to the to the east or west, whatever Dominican public side that is, and then to the south of him. And so he picked up on the ideas that Dessaline left behind, which was to build the citadel, right? And so, you know, you know, for anybody who doesn't know, that was that's the largest fort in the Western hemisphere.

SPEAKER_00 52:27

And it was designed and created.

SPEAKER_03 52:30

Yes, sir. It was designed and created, you know, just in case the French would ever want to come back, right? That we could protect ourselves as a sovereign nation. And so what happens then is Tucson, excuse me, let me slow down for a little bit. So you have uh uh the brother Henry Christophe and you have Alexander Petition having their little beasts and their wars back and forth, and then unfortunately, both of them end up dying. Now Boyeur, who is who was also in the Haitian Revolution as well, um uh he then unites the nation. He then brings the north and the south back together. So now you have Tucson dead, you have uh uh Dessaline dead, you have Henry Christopher dead, and you have uh Alexander Pension dead. And now you have Boyeur stepping up to become the first president or whatever you want to call him. So he unites the north and the south. Now, here's the issue with that. Boyeur was a mulatto.

SPEAKER_00 53:25

Yeah, I heard about that.

SPEAKER_03 53:27

Not only was he a mulatto, but he would no different than Alexander Pension. He loved his French father that he never ever met. Is it is said that he wrote over a hundred letters to his father asking his father to recognize him as his son, right? So when you're dealing with this type of sick mentality, now I'm not saying that all mixed-race people have that, because some mixed-race people identify more with their black side, some identify more with that with their white side, some like to stay in the middle. I'm not here to to say that. But this man clearly identified more with his French side and wanted to be a Frenchman by any cost. And so not only did he want that recognition from his father, but he wanted that recognition from France. So instead of doing what the what these African black men did to prepare and get ready for war in case the French ever come back, he essentially invited the French back. And he essentially, he essentially went on his way for the French. Now, of course, they came back in warships and surrounded Haiti and all the things like that. But if you were properly, if you were properly preparing for that, you would have been ready for that.

SPEAKER_00 54:38

Of course, we'd have seen it coming, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:40

Would have seen it coming. But but bullies only pick on people when they think they soft. So they didn't try that with, they didn't try that with Dessaline. No, they didn't try that with Henry Christoph, they tried that with the mulatto, who consistently tried to get his father's approval and get French approval. So they knew we would try it with.

SPEAKER_00 54:58

Yeah, his psyche, they know he was very vulnerable, fragile, and he was desperate for attention. Inferior complex. That's basically correct.

SPEAKER_03 55:05

Correct, correct, correct. And so uh this is how we end up getting in a situation where we owe France or end up paying France billions of dollars in reparations, which drove the economy uh deep into recession, into the ground, you know. And then obviously, of course, you know, you have the embagos, and you know, you have all the things that took place, you know, but um we really have to study uh what Chancellor Williams call calls the mulatto problem. I'm not sure if you're familiar with Chancellor Williams.

SPEAKER_00 55:36

Oh, yeah, he wrote the description of black uh civilization. I read that damn. See, I'm gonna show my age. I read that book when I was 1920, so that's over 20 something years ago. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 55:46

Okay, no, no, no. Powerful book. I think I think uh a lot of people read it as history and instead of reading it as case studies, right? Because that's exactly what the book is, is case studies where he's talking about certain civilizations that actually fell and why they fell and how they fail, and etc. And uh, you know, one of the ones he talks about is ancient kemet and how ancient Kemet, you know, they created a a mulatto class that rose up against the the black fathers and mothers of ancient Kemet and ended up attacking them for their Eurasian mothers and sisters. And we see this in in the Haitian Revolution, right? We see it repeating itself in Brazil right now with the with the with the with the mamalukes and the the the whites killing the black Brazilians and things like that, or the mixed race. So, you know, we have to really study and interpret history in a different way to create a different future. And um, you know, this is why I wear this Sankofa chain, right?

SPEAKER_02 56:47

I like that.

SPEAKER_03 56:48

You know, go back and get it to remember, you know, because history is not just time, based on events. You know, history is present and future. And um, if we truly understand that, you know, through studying the Haitian Revolution, we can see how we failed with accepting mixed-race people to be our leaders. You know, we can see how we failed, you know, and I'm not, I'll give you a prime example. Like sister Naomi, Naomi Nasaka, I think her name is the tennis player.

SPEAKER_00 57:15

Oh, yeah, yeah, the tennis player, yeah, the Japanese and Haitian. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 57:19

So I think she's I think she's a phenomenal tennis player, right? Okay, but she can't be the voice for Haitian people, she can't be the standard of beauty for Haitian girls. Because her herself, she's not a full Haitian girl. She can't speak to my needs, she can't speak to the needs of someone who's black. She can't speak to the to the psychological. We don't have the same psychological, you know, advantages and disadvantages. We don't have that.

Dessalines: Irritated Genie And Warfare

SPEAKER_00 57:44

I see where you're coming from with that. I want to interject with that. It's very I want to interject with that. Reason being I say that is um we keep it right. I have some interracial people in my family, nieces and all that. You know, I always love them, but I always teach them their history, let them know, you know, this is part of you. Never negate that side of you. And you know, of course, you gotta respect the other half as well. But I always tell them this is who you are, this is where your mother comes from. You understand? And and they get that. And and I get what you're saying as far as expressing somebody who doesn't look like you can express what I because you psychologically haven't been there. You don't know how it is to be on that side. That's what happened to 80. As you said, with the boyer, you know, with boyer and petchin, because in your words, as you said, case studies, they they didn't walk that walk, they came after the war was done. Like, okay, we're here now. We're Haitian too. But you know, are you really Haitian? Do you know what we endure as darker hue people? Because you know, the caste system plays a role. And it that's something that happens across the across the globe. The diaspora, the continent, everything, it's always that caste system. You know what I'm saying? And that's part of who's that guy named again, Johan Bomb. I forgot his name, but I had a post up and put him up. Like, yeah, thank this guy for this shit. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_03 59:03

Well, so I'm I'm I'm I'm gonna say two things. I'm gonna say two things. And it's Johan Blumenbacher, but yeah, Johan Blumenbacher, yeah. Yes, sir. I'm I'm I want to address two things on that. So the first thing I'm gonna address is um I I don't dislike any mixed race person because you are not the determinant fact of how you were how you were born. Yeah, right? I have I have I may have more of an issue with your your parent than I have with you, right? Because you you you you can't help that. You know what I'm saying? But in my opinion, I think that in a racist world, in a world that's built on race, in a world that is not colorblind, one of the most selfish things you can do as a parent is to make a child that's gonna grow up confused, that's gonna grow up in a world that's based on race. Because you want because you want to get a white girl, because you want to get a white guy, you then selfishly make a child that has to draw a hard line between what am I, who am I, what do I do? And oftentimes they they're used by the white power structure, you know. Um, but but I don't I don't dislike or hate any child, you know, who is born of mixed race heritage. I just know I draw a hard line and say that you can't speak for me.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:20

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:21

You cannot speak for me as an African person. The way I can't speak for women as African women, I can only be supportive of African women, I can't speak for them. A mixed race person cannot speak for me or represent what it means to be African to me. Now, that's just that's my point of view. That's my hard stance on that. You know, even shoot, even a even a full-blooded Negro can't speak for me. If you want some Negro stuff, you don't you don't speak to me, you know. So I draw that real hard line.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:49

No, I get what you're saying. 100%. I agree with you 100%, and I'm glad you that you put that because you know I thought about that too with the um Naomi Osaki and uh and other people because aesthetically I heard this on TikTok as well. You know what I'm saying? Because I I enter these rooms when I hear people talking, when they have some mulatto Haitians speaking on the matter, some do speak, some don't, and they'd be like, some people be like, You can't speak for me. Because you're part of the problem. You know what I'm saying? You're part of that, you're part of the echelon that you know you don't feel this like how we feel it down here. And that's something that um Duval's Papa Duck was working with that. His government at the time, he kept the mulattoes at a certain level, like yo, you're not coming up here, because when y'all come up here, y'all look down on people. But then, you know, his son, you know, after he passed, his son made that mistake and got with one. I believe she was part mulatto, um, Michelle Bennett, something like that, and all hell broke loose. So yeah. I'm glad, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:47

I mean, it it it's a very uh delicate situation, but it's one that you know, we if we just have more self-awareness and more self-love, it wouldn't even be a topic, you know, because we wouldn't be we wouldn't be making mixed race children if we have more love for self, if we have more understanding for self, you know. Um, but you know, that's you know, you're always gonna find somebody who gonna who're gonna go ahead and do that anyway. Um and to go back to Johann Blumenbacher, I I want to say that when we think of like the idea of race, and we give white people the credit for creating racism, I think to some degree that is incorrect, right? Because far be far before, far before you know uh the Europeans began enslaving us, we had Arabs enslaving us. And they made a they made a a very distinctive between what it means to be black, what it means to be Arab, and what it means to be other. So that so I know we like to say, oh, the concept of race came from Johann Blumenbacher. He did create the sciences of race, right? But even if you read um if you read uh some of Bob Boa's work, right? Uh who was so-called one of the first explorers to um make it here to the United States after, but whatever, um, and made it to South America. If you read some of his work, he ran into some Native Americans early on in South America. I think it was somewhere in like uh uh Argentina somewhere. He may have some some some Native Americans, and they had these uh enslaved Africans. And he asked them, he said, he said, my boy asked me, he said, Where do you get these Africans from? And he said, Oh, they're from across over the mountain, and you know, we've been worried with them for generations, right? And so this is even before the Europeans even put in their mind the idea of race. You had Native Americans or or whatever you want to classify them as as people enslaving Africans, right? So, so you know, I know we give them credit for starting racism, and but uh I feel like they just made it more universal than other people because Africans throughout history and antiquity they have been raised as heroes, you know, and then they have also been raised as as villains. Even if you go into um in like old Indian culture, they have something called like the Dravidians and things like that, the untouchables, right? Yeah, this goes way back before Europeans even even came to India. They had this whole caste system thing going on, right? Yeah, for example, or even one of their one of their gods is like this black thing with with like long nails and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:39

Oh, the sister, what's they call her again? Uh Mahakali with the tongue she saw she cutting the head of the white men and the tongue. Yeah, something like that.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:49

Yeah. So, you know, when we when we talk about racism, I know we like to give the credit to white people, and and white people do deserve a lot of it. You know, I'm not gonna take that away. I'm gonna get them where they get, but um, it sort of existed, you know, um amongst us or amongst people, you know, for quite some time. Now, one thing I always try to challenge people is you show me where African people have practiced racism or prejudice or bigotry against other people. Because everywhere we've gone, we've always been the most humane, loving, and caring people, except to ourselves.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:23

But compassion, I'm telling you, and you're right. I'm glad you said that to ourselves. We don't see ourselves always an enemy. No, I'm glad. Oh man, this is this is this was good, man. I gotta get you back on here so we could just go further, you know, deep into this. Because now I'm looking at the Haitian Revolution as a case study now. Like, I'm like, yo, that's that's true. Because a lot of things, like, I think that was like the the genesis of what they were gonna bring out to the rest of the world. Although slavery r was already taking place, but the tactics that we use on the psychological, I won't psychology, but yeah. Economically and everything to destroy you, you know, make you fight the end fighting. That happened amongst us, and the distrust we had, like you know, for a nation to liberate itself 200 plus 200 plus 20 years. We can't just get it together, man. We always gotta have a handler to tell us what to do, when to do it, how to do it. You know, the and these the issues with the I call them the again, not gangs, private owned militias carry on an order. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_03 1:06:26

How do you so I want to say this, brother? I want to say this right quick. That a lot of people don't know this, and this this is what blows my mind, right? So not only when they when they when uh Boyer agreed to uh pay reparations to uh to friends, but it also came with negotiations, right? And one of the negotiations that people never talk about, which I don't I don't know how it goes over our mind, is that is that Catholicism would become the national religion of Haiti again. So the French the French said, okay, great, paying us is good, we want the money, we want the money, but we also want y'all to make Catholicism, Christianity, the religion of Haiti again. Now, for anybody thinking critically and logically about that, you would say, well, why does that matter?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:22

Why does why is that even psychologically it matters spiritually and what what we said earlier down to even down to the voodoo? Like, you know, let's keep it real, you know. I know they they get on dislike because I, you know, I deal with a family that deals with this. Even some of the praising voodoo is Catholic prayers, right? Can we can we be honest? It's some Catholic praise in there, right? And we speak that we speaking up, we were speaking about Boyer, you know what I'm saying? What that sucker did. Even with him going into the DR, occupying it between two years, create even more havoc. What was the science behind that?

SPEAKER_03 1:08:03

So, you know, you had the Spanish, you know, agitating. They were agitating, they were trying to, you know, um take back over Haiti, you know, because they sold it to France with that whole uh that Treaty of Wizwick, how we pronounce it, yeah.

Flags, Color Politics, And Power

SPEAKER_00 1:08:19

Riswick, I believe, yeah, Rizwick.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:20

Yeah. So, you know, they were trying to, they kept agitating, they kept pushing back and doing things and things like that. And so, you know, Boyer and Dessaline and others, other people felt that it'd be necessary that if we go over there and take that land, then we'll be able to kick the Spanish out, and then we can commingle as brothers and sisters. You know, some of us might be lighter, some of us might be darker, but then we can we can kind of you know get along. Um, but the propaganda that the Spanish left over there in the minds of uh those Africans um was was deeply rooted, man. See, here's the thing about it. Here's the thing, the part that we missed about this. The Spanish were the first to start educating. Well, it was like, oh yeah, we're gonna we're gonna open up schools. Schools is how we're gonna get them, right? And so, and so you had you had one of the first schools in America being created, and I'm using quotation marks because this is what most historians say, one of the first schools in America was in the Americas, right, was in Dominican Republic, right? Where they started already educating the children, propagandizing, educating the children. You get what I'm saying? And that's a real thing, man. We don't understand how deep that socialization um is within our people, right? Like I'll give you an example in psychology. There's something called um the pathlock experiment, where you know, you do things with like sounds and and and uh lights, and you know, like you would take a dog and then you would zap the dog and then you know, or you would read the belt.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:03

Yeah, to get the food, and then it, you know, after a while, it conditioned them a certain way. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:08

Correct. We don't understand how conditioned we have, we have been. Like we don't understand how through television, through music, through, through, through, through schooling, we have been conditioned to be displeased with blackness, to to view whiteness as as something you know holy and sanctified. Like there was a study done not too long ago, right? I like I like these studies because it it brings me into more clearer understanding of what's going on in the world. There was a study done a long time ago, maybe early 2000s, where these uh social scientists they realized that whenever you feed a child something, a good feeling goes through their body, right? You know, because we often equate you know feelings with food and nurturing and things like that. And and they were trying to figure out why black children were having positive responses to white people. And what they realized that is that, and I'm making it real short, what they realized is that on the box of the Gerber, on the Gerber baby food box, the white baby, yeah, was the white baby. So as you're making the baby's bottle and you're feeding the baby and you're giving the baby the bottle, they seeing that white child, they're seeing that white person. So when we when we when we truly understand how socialization and conditioning works on our everyday, everyday, the smallest things, white supremacy hasn't taken a day off in 400 years.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:48

It is never have, never will.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:50

It will not. Every day you have to get up and program yourself and say, I'm not gonna say that, I'm not gonna do that, I'm not gonna out of that to a brother, you know, I'm not gonna treat a sister like that. Yeah, it's an everyday battle within yourself.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:03

I'm glad you said that because even down to the most ignorant thing I have heard, you see how we're speaking, and other guests on the show that would dialogue with us, and we're taking our time, we're speaking in different vernacular and whatsoever, proper you know, terms, past tense, and pronunciation. They will say, You're speaking like a white person. So you mean tell me if I speak intelligently, I'm white, but if I speak foolish, I'm black. Like, I'm like, whoa, hold on, that doesn't make sense, fam. That's not synonymous. Like, we're not synonymous with ignorance, man. We what are you talking about?

SPEAKER_03 1:12:36

So I'm gonna challenge that in a way, right? Being someone, I wouldn't say I'm a linguistic person, but being someone who has studied linguists, right? I think okay, let me I'm gonna try to tie it all in because I speak African sometime, right? So I speak African sometimes. Um, so are you familiar with a nuncy?

SPEAKER_00 1:13:00

Anunci. Annunciation or nuncy?

SPEAKER_03 1:13:03

No, a nuncy. Anuncy is a West African, you know, um character to say, and it's a spider. And what the spider does is the spider tells stories, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:13:16

Okay, like a lot of things.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:17

And have you ever heard have I'm sorry?

SPEAKER_00 1:13:20

Like a griot, like telling a storyteller, like an elderly.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:23

Yeah, yeah, but it is represented as a spider, okay, right? Because we we see everything through symbols. Words are nothing more than symbols that we both agree that this is the A is ah, right now. Who's to say that it really is ah? But we both agree that A is Ah, B is Ba. And then we associate it with a symbol, an apple. So ah is for apple, right? That's the only thing that words are, right? So words are symbols that we can manifest into something that we can communicate. This is why Asian people they have those little symbols where you like, what the hell is that? But they know exactly what it is because they they they know what a symbol is, they all agree this is the symbol. Same thing in Arabic script and things like that. It's not that it's something that's universally correct, it's just what we all agree on is the symbol, is is yeah, is the symbol, is the word. So I'm saying all that to say this. Let me bring it full of course because I don't want people to get lost. Let me bring it full of course. So Africans speak in a certain dialect, right? Like when you look at any West African language or even any Caribbean language, we don't use any strong continents, right? So when Europeans speak, they say things like, I am going to the store. Africans speak because because we are using our African minds to speak a European language, we say things like, well, I'm gonna go to the store.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:55

Yeah, I'm gonna go to the store.

Assassination, Split Haiti, And The Citadel

SPEAKER_03 1:14:56

You see how you see how you didn't you you didn't hear any hard continents, no hard, no I am just it just it just flow. So even when you look at at how, let's say, for example, um how Haitians speak Creole, right? We it's a very flowing language, yeah. There's nothing hard in the language, rhythmatic, it's just rhythm. Is it is very so I feel like it's a flow to it, right? When when someone speaks French, it's a pa and it's very right. So even when you go down to southern language, when you go down to certain Spanish language, like they'll tell you quick that oh, he's speaking that that Cuban Spanish, right? Exactly that that year, because what it is is our African minds don't deal with hard continents, right? You speak in a very rhythmic, in a very rhythmic way of speaking, and so in my interpretation, when someone says, Oh, you speak in white, what they're saying is you're using hard continents, not that you're speaking proper, yeah, that you that that's what how I interpret it. Not meaning, you know what I'm saying, that you're speaking better, it just means that you speaking out of our dialect on how we as an African.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:09

Correct, correct frequency.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:11

You're speaking more with the high, high nasal, you know, we're we're going over here. Like that's not how we speak in Africa.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:17

You say like Al Roka. Wait, wait, what weather going over?

SPEAKER_03 1:16:21

Correct, correct, correct, correct, correct. So that's how I have learned to interpret it, not meaning that you speak it properly, because we we've been speaking back and forth, you know, using different words and etc. etc. But it's more about how the flow is that that we're you know, we're taking it. Because as the old African proverb goes, it's not what you said, it's how you said it.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:40

Oh beautifully said, yeah, yo, my brother, I gotta get you back on here, man. We gotta get back on here.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:45

Yeah, yeah, brother.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:46

Yeah, because we because I want to, I'm glad that we know we spoke like we touched on the Haitian history, and it is a lot more, it's very deep. Because, you know, from studying some books and hearing accounts from people, there's a lot of layers to that revolution that we haven't yet to touch the spiritual influence that pushed it, what what they endured, and what became Hades culture. You know, we know what the voodoo is what helped our revolution, but then no, within the voodoo, you know, the Africans left Africa with it. You know what I'm saying? And you know, say in Spain, when they you know, when the Moors were done, when they fell from civilizing the the the Europeans, it incorporated some Taino factors in the voodoo. You know, as we know the Catholic Church is in there in the African spirituality system, you know what I'm saying? So we gotta touch more, and I like to do a show with you. I want to get more into this FBA thing, man, because I don't like the way it's looking out here amongst our people. Because it's I'm with you with the whole Pan-Africanist thing. I I love that. That's a better approach for me. You know what I'm saying? The Pan-African approach is the best to me. It makes it makes more sense than the than the division. Go ahead, guy.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:54

All right, you know what I'm saying? Um, and and you know, listen, listen, I'm I'm gonna be honest with you, right? You know, Haiti is the, in my opinion, I gotta say in my opinion and in my research, because you know, something, you know, something always can come out new that can prove me wrong, right? But in my opinion, Haiti is the antithesis of Pan-Africanism, right? Like you have these Africans coming from Congo, what we now know as Congo, you know, uh, what we now know as Nigeria, Ghana, you know, different parts of the interior of Africa coming together to forge this one culture, this one African identity, right? This one spiritual system, which we call voodoo, which was the which is the fawn word, which means spirit.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:42

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:43

Right? And so, you know, Haiti is the beginning of what I consider to be the pan-Africanism. And if you look at some of the first, yeah, if you look at some of the first Pan-African movements, right, you you see the people who was on those panels, you know, who was writing up the declarations and things like that. It was Haitians, you know, um, or you know, what we call African Haitians. So, I mean, it only makes sense for for us to unite as a people. I can't see any reason other than to continue white supremacy for black people to be at odds with one another. I can't see any other reason. Now, does that mean that we are perfect? Does it mean that we're gonna create a utopia and a wakana tomorrow? No, nah, doesn't mean that, but it does mean we need to work towards a greater future for ourselves and for our children and our children after that, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:40

So with that being said, people, coupe that bule kai, stop the beer, stop the nonsense. There gotta be some unification with respect, I say, amongst even Haiti and DR. Because but listen, both nations were birthed out of slavery. Let's keep it real. You know what I'm saying? That's not that's not that's not gatekeep. Um, and somehow, like gatekeep who came first or try to weaponize DNA. Because at the end of the day, we both fought for liberation, and we gotta learn from the errors of the past and move forward. Killers in the phobia. My brother Bob, I appreciate you for coming out, my brother, tonight. You know what I'm saying? He came through, man. You knocked it out. Don't forget people to comment, like, share, subscribe. We got super chats. Where can the people reach you at, brothers, reach out to you in case they want to get more dialogue from you or something like that?

SPEAKER_03 1:20:30

Um, I mean, you know, brother Hassan, um, you know, on all social media platforms. Sometimes I might change the name, but usually it's gonna be Brother Hassan. So B-R-O-T-H-A Hassan H A S S A N. Um, and you know, YouTube, I'm on YouTube too. I haven't been, you know, much creative with that. Twitter, uh, X, whatever you want to call it. I'm on all social media platforms, or they can hit me on my WhatsApp or whatever. Um, you know, I'm just I'm just here to continue the work of the people who came before me, man. I stand on some heavy shoulders, you know. Um, and I I I can't, you know, continue, I can't live the rock live out the rest of my life not continuing this work. This this work is going to be whether it's profitable, whether it's not profitable, whether it's painful, whether it's whatever, this healing black people, educating black people, African people, connecting with African people, um will be my life's journey until I'm an ancestor. You know?

SPEAKER_00 1:21:36

So the same way too, bro. I'm here that I'm here with that too, bro. All right, man. With that being said, we out, people.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:45

Peace.