The Truth About Fraternities, Freemasons & Shriners - Kevin Ali

A lot of people join a fraternity looking for brotherhood, discipline, and a path to success, then realize they’re still asking the same quiet question: what is all of this really for? We sit down with Minister Kevin Ali to connect the dots between Black Greek life, Freemasonry, and the Nation of Islam, and we don’t treat the symbols as decoration. We treat them like signals, and we ask who understands them, who profits from them, and who is left repeating rituals without the “why.”

We get into the Divine Nine as it’s meant to be at its best: service, mentoring, community leadership, and a healthy code of conduct. Then we talk about the drift into hazing culture, status chasing, and the limits of “networking” when the network mostly helps you integrate into someone else’s system. From there, Kevin Ali breaks down Freemasonry and Shrine structure, the function of hierarchy, and the argument that elite fraternal orders polish members for rulership and public power, not just private fellowship.

The most provocative section is the symbolism and meaning debate: the square and compass, the crescent and star, “crossing the burning sands,” and why Greek-centered ritual language raises deeper Black identity questions. We also push a practical angle for Black economic empowerment: if fraternities and sororities truly hold talent and resources, what would it look like to pool money into shared assets like land, food systems, and institutions that last?

If you care about Black Greek fraternities, Freemasonry symbolism, Nation of Islam teachings, Elijah Muhammad, and the real-world choices between integration and self-determination, hit play and sit with us. Subscribe, share this with a friend, and leave a review, then tell us: do these rituals empower people or keep them managed?

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_00 0:10

What's going on, everybody out there? It's Ron Brown LMG, the People's Fitness Professional. Number one reporting for duty. We have the brother Minister Kevin Ali in the building. Asalam Alaikum. Thank you for coming out this evening. I really appreciate your presence, brother. And add on, how you how you feel?

SPEAKER_01 0:33

I feel fine by the grace of Almighty God Allah, who came in the person of Master Farad Muhammad, to whom praise Juga ever. Thank you forever for his coming and for his raising up in our midst his last and bravest messenger, the most humble and honorable Elijah Muhammad.

Pledging Kappa And Seeking Brotherhood

SPEAKER_00 0:50

Indeed, indeed. So now today we're talking about paternities, Freemasonry, and trainers. I put it up there that way, just so you can cover all bases, whatever knowledge you have on these um uh groups, um, or you know, cultures, if you will. Um, you know, what makes that again, or what? Groups or what?

SPEAKER_01 1:16

Groups or cultures, if you will.

SPEAKER_00 1:18

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:19

I thought I thought you said I thought you said vultures.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

Oh, no, no, no, no, no. So uh all right, so what's your background as far as college and fraternities and things like that?

SPEAKER_01 1:33

Well, I I attended uh the University of Virginia, and I actually pledged Kappa Alpha Psi in the spring of 1984. So I can come from this with from a very, very unique perspective and offer some very unique insights to uh both the aims and purposes of Greek fraternities, why they were founded, and also how that relates to what we were taught by Messenger Elijah Muhammad.

SPEAKER_00 2:07

Okay, so what was your experience like being a part of a part of these um organizations?

SPEAKER_01 2:14

Uh it was it was it was mainly it was a it was a way of socializing uh the what we call the black Greece, the divine nine, alpha, cappa alpha, zeta phi beta, delta sigma theta, sigma gamma row, cap alpha psi, omega sci-fi, alpha phi alpha, omega sci fi, and phi. Oh, um I could iota phi beta. Those divine nine, and I think I messed up the last one, but those divine nine are the what they call the quote unquote black Greeks. Someone might also include groove sci-fi in there. Uh not groove groove phi groove. Those are the the traditional black fraternities and sororities, and their charters say they were uh established on more of a community service-based uh methodology rather than the social methodology that was used under the uh under the uh the PWI, the predominant predominantly white institution fraternities and sororities. Okay, okay. And we we did we did service projects, we did youth mentoring, uh, we did you know, we did cleanups, we did uh service projects in the in the university community, in the community at large in Charlottesville, Virginia. We did some uh Kappa youth mentoring, but there was also also the uh the service, excuse me, the social aspect of eternity. Uh it was a way to you know to to represent your brotherhood, to represent your uh clique, if you will, but in a righteous way. Now, over the years, and it has degenerated in certain aspects uh at times. And they've and and the divine nine have have been doing their best or what they could to stop some of the negative aspects of it, even suspending certain group uh organizations off of campus because of uh alcohol-related incidents, pledging or hazing-related incidents, mainly hazing-related incidents. But overall, I would say I had a I had a good experience because I was always looking for something, I was always looking for that brotherhood. But more importantly, and I think this is a lot of people, I was looking for an answer. I didn't even know what the question was, but I knew I was looking for something to explain the world around me, right? So that's what I went into it with, and I thought that maybe they would have some answers, and I really did not understand the answers until I met a minister of the honorable Elijah Muhammad. So I don't want to be too long with that explanation in my background.

Finding The Nation Of Islam

SPEAKER_00 4:59

Okay, so when did you come in contact with the nation of so when did you join the nation of Islam? That's a better, that's a better question.

SPEAKER_01 5:08

I came in contact, well, the the better question, I came in contact with the nation of Islam in 1987 when I met Minister David Bachha. And we engaged in a the dot like a dialogue we're having right now, we would have this dialogue at least once a day, sometimes for hours. Now, I actually got registered on forms in the nation of Islam in 1994, receiving my ex in Montgomery, Alabama.

SPEAKER_00 5:38

Okay, and uh that was that was after joining the fraternity. Yes, that was after.

SPEAKER_01 5:44

I I pledged in the spring of 1984. Yeah, I didn't meet minister by child until 87, 88, and I didn't get on forms until 19 April of 1991.

SPEAKER_00 5:57

Okay, so once you joined the Nation of Islam, you decided to leave the fraternities alone or did you maintain your relationship? What was the process? You know, what was the the uh what were you thinking around that time? Like, should I leave this or is this good or was it like like a lot of people?

SPEAKER_01 6:17

I meant, you know, there it there's two camps in the fraternities and sorraries once they grew once they get out of undergraduate. Either continue on in a graduate chapter, you know, becoming being a dues paying members in the graduate chapter, or not being one. I did not continue on being a dues paying member in the graduate chapter. I didn't go on you know going to conclaves and you know regional uh meetings or anything like that in CAPA. Okay. That was the first decision I made. Nothing, it wasn't good or bad. I didn't say, you know, I'm throwing this away because of X. I just it's just something it was just where I was at that time in my life. I I decided not to pursue uh a graduate chapter experience.

Where Freemasonry And Shriners Begin

SPEAKER_00 7:03

Okay, now the brother Achmed before this podcast, he said that uh the sororities is uh basically they took some of the elements of Freemasonry and adopted it. Would you agree with that?

SPEAKER_01 7:23

Well, uh yes. We have to go back. We have to go back to what the beginnings of Freemasonry and the shrine actually were. Freemasonry was established. Well, excuse me, the first official chapter was established of Freemasonry based on the four London Grand Lodges in about June of 1717. People will argue over the exact date. That's that's free, that's Freemasons. I'm gonna assume that I'm not sure if that was the Scottish Rite or the York Rite. The Nobles of the Mystic Shrine, known as the Shriners International today, that was established in 1872 in New York City by Mr. William, excuse me, Walter M. Fleming and William Billy Florence. And the first official chapter of the Mecca Shrine was established in September of 26 of 1872 at the Knicker Knickerbocker Cottage. This was a higher degree of shrine, excuse me, of masonry. And instead of focusing on the ritual, the shriners more focused on the fun, fraternal aspects of being a mason. So, in other words, these are very high Masons, very they're 32nd and 33rd degree Masons. But what they wanted to do was they wanted to have more fun. And you see that today as a remnant of the shrine. They have a huge service project, the Shriner's Hospital, and the Shriner's Burn Unit. So they're of service to the community, and they also fund. You see them once a year, well, now more than once a year, but they will don the regalia and they will participate in parades and have you know children's events, and so they're trying to have more fun. The other thing they did was they uh worked to develop their oratorical skills. So, in other words, they were they were practicing to learn diplomacy. Prior to this, the Caucasian people they settled their differences by the sword, by the rock, by the spear, by the bogul. That's how they think so. The shriners wanted to smooth over that rough edge or that rough appearance of their ancestry. Because for 2,000 years they nearly extincted themselves in Europe, the Caucasian people. And even after we sent Musa to them in the in the caves and hillsides, they nearly extincted themselves again, and they had to have a renaissance or a reformation which was brought on by the Moors invading and ruling Spain and Italy for 1400 years, which spurned the Renaissance or the Reformation. And that Renaissance was the rebirth of a dying civilization, the European civilization. I know this is getting to be a long uh answer. The first uh the first fraternal organization was Phi Beta Kappa, which started out as an honorary society in America. In you know, PWI. Remember, we were slaves during this time. Phi Beta Kappa was an honorary society for those who had achieved academic excellence. Now, I didn't prepare all the other ones that came after it. I did a whole lecture on this. I think Phi Delta, Phi Delta New or Delta New was the next one. And this went on and on and on until the first PW, from the first PWI to the to the first Divine Nine, which was Alpha Phi Alpha, which is established in 1906 on the campus of Cornell University.

SPEAKER_00 11:09

Okay, okay.

Supreme Wisdom And Joining Other Orders

SPEAKER_01 11:13

I I have a question for you. What would you say are the are the two most interesting lessons or questions and set qu set of questions and answers for tonight's discussion from our supreme wisdom?

SPEAKER_00 11:33

Um, I mean, um I would say who's the ten percent. Oh, oh, oh, you know what? I didn't even think of that one. Okay. Um well, that's the only one that that comes to mind.

SPEAKER_01 12:02

That's a number one question number four. Why do we run Yakub and is made double?

SPEAKER_00 12:07

Oh, why do we run Yaku and it's made double from the root of civilization?

SPEAKER_01 12:11

Okay, and number nine, why does Muhammad make the devil study for 35 to 50 years? Oh my god, wow, wow, wow.

SPEAKER_00 12:20

I'm bugging out. Yeah, my bad. I'm tired.

SPEAKER_01 12:25

Universe flag of Islam.

SPEAKER_00 12:27

Right.

SPEAKER_01 12:29

I'm trying to put you on the spot, brother. But I know I know you're down with them lessons, right?

SPEAKER_00 12:34

Right, indeed, indeed, indeed, indeed. Um but also, you know, uh um, so I was so okay. I got you. All right, I got where you're going. All right, cool. So now um I want to talk about recognition recognization of structure and discipline. Groups like fraternities and Freemasonry are acknowledged for brotherhood structure, codes of conduct, ritual, and hierarchy. Okay, these elements are seen as tools that can build unity, order, and identity. All right, something the nature of Islam also emphasizes uh internally. So there's a so uh would you say the nation of Islam condemns joining fraternities?

SPEAKER_01 13:29

That's a good question. Does it condemn it? Well, nobody has uh my mentor, Minister David Bachad, who my whom the minister I met in 87, he was a member of Alpha Phi Alpha. He also was a shrine, uh, excuse me, a Mason. So he said Messenger Muhammad very rarely outright condemns something. But when you are, if somebody gives you something that says, look, the body of knowledge that you are now engaged in is supreme wisdom. It is there's no wisdom that's surpassed, it comes from Almighty God Allah Himself. You've got brotherhood in here, you've got training in here, you've got how to eat, how to drink, how to uh exercise, how to fast, you got uh how to build a transportation system, how to build an economic system, how to build a school system, an educational system. Uh it doesn't take a rocket scientist to say, you know what, what more are you gonna learn somewhere else? So, yeah, what why why would you go and join something else when you have supreme wisdom? But can I find anywhere where the messenger said, don't join it? No. He did say that I was once a Mason before he met Master Farad Muhammad, Messenger Elijah Muhammad was a Mason. Back in those days, uh to get manual labor jobs, doing building or working on roads, you had to be a member of the craft to even get those kind of jobs. Manual labor jobs, bricklaying, masonry. I mean, they grew they really did it back then in the early 1900s. So, yeah, he was he was a Mason, and he said that the first three degrees of Masonry are the keys to urine by slavery, and you will find many Masonic scholars who were saying there really are only three degrees in Masonry, really only three. Everything else is an honorary or a level of those three degrees, but there's really only three degrees of Masonry, a lot of Masonic scholars will say. So, do we condemn it? No, but if I had done this in reverse, I wouldn't have joined the fraternity. That's me.

Symbols Rituals And The Hidden Secret

SPEAKER_00 15:52

Right, right. And and and no disrespect to my Masons out there, however, um I I went through the laws and real time, and I realized all I needed was 120 lessons. I didn't really need anything else. You know what I'm saying? All I needed is 120 lessons, supreme mathematics, supreme alphabets. I feel like at the time was the point, you know, to memorize catechisms that like catechism that wasn't that are not blatantly truthful, like the first degree and the one to ten is blatantly truthful, it's not beating around the bush. Who's the original man? And it gives you a straight answer, right?

SPEAKER_01 16:50

So, you know, just to piggyback off of what you're saying, and again, as as we as we learned in our lessons, the masonry was what we, the original man, gave to the Caucasian people so that they could clean themselves up and take their rightful place as the person who was supposed to rule for the upcoming 6,000 years. Uh, we don't love him as long, regardless of how long he studies. But it takes the Caucasian people, the Caucasian Mason, it takes them 35 to 50 years to go under this study. And each way, each step, they have to pay money. So all the black Masons and Shriners have done is duplicate what the Caucasians have done, and now they're paying money for. Well, Messenger Elijah Muhammad teaches us that the sun, the moon, and the stars that they eventually are allowed to wear, you can have that for free. It's yours, but it's yours by nature, it belongs to you. Not only does it belong to you, you create it. The black man created the sun, the moon, and the stars. This flag is just a representation of what we created. We allow him to wear our holy flag of Islam once a year. And that's when you see the Masons and they don't the regalia, the Fez, with the star upturned, excuse me, the crescent upturned over the star and a sword on the upper part of the Holy Greatest Universe flag of Islam. This is to remind the Caucasian initiate that if they reveal the secret, right? Their head would be chopped off by the sword. Now they actually did this to people, but what it really means is their head, their ability to rule would come to an end if they gave the secret of what is in the shrine. What is a shrine? A shrine is a place of honor and respect for some type of relic or artifact or something dead. Well, who is it that's dead? Well, in the Masonics, we learn that it is Hiram Abith who is dead. He is the master builder who was hit in the head with a setting mall by three uh ruffians who wanted to steal his knowledge, steal his wisdom, steal the secrets for the temple of King Solomon, which Messenger Lajmama teaches us, is the blueprint for the kingdom of heaven on earth. So now he is dead. Now King Solomon's an oh no, he's not dead, he's just he's just sleeping. Y'all don't know how to pull him out of the grave. Well, well, Master Solomon uh we tried to pick him up, and the meat kept sliding off his bones, right? Right, brother? Mm-hmm. We we couldn't pick him up. He was no, no, he's just dead. Y'all ain't got the right grip. Well, what's the right grip? Well, the right grip, Mr. Muhammad teaches us, is that Solomon in this uh ritual represents God the king, not just King Solomon, but God the king. And the right grip is the lion's paw grip. It's not the end of the prince, ain't gonna work. The archmason, the master mason, that ain't gonna work. It's got to be the lion's paw grip to grab him and lift him that bone up out of the ground and stand him back up on the square. Now, when you go over to the shrine, that dead person that is worshipped in the shrine by the Caucasian Masons is the black man. When they get there, they learn that the real name of God is Allah. They learn that the real greetings of peace are Asama Aleika, and they when they when they get to the highest form of their shrine, the inner sanctorum, the sanctum sanctorum, they learn that the black man is God. None of the black masons riders learn any of this, they learn some rituals. Right now, um the next one.

SPEAKER_00 20:49

Um there is a belief in uh in a while teachings that some of the fraternity orders have roots in European system of power. Uh these systems may not serve the liberation or uh what so pardon me, these systems may not serve the liberation or elevation of black people. Uh so the concern becomes are you being empowered or initiated into something that doesn't truly serve you? So that's the question.

SPEAKER_01 21:33

Well, how do I answer this quickly? The pinnacle of society, according to the society that we live in, is Greco Roman civilization. Their laws, their way of doing things, their their senate, their way of governing, their way of leading and rule. But you'll find that the rulers and the philosophers of Greco Roman society, they studied in Egypt. They studied in Timbo. Up to. They studied in Mali and Songhai, and they took that information and used that information for themselves to raise their European society without giving the credit. So now we're asking the question one more time. I want to make sure I'm staying sticking to what you're asking.

SPEAKER_00 22:16

So are basically the concern, let's say, from a nation of Islam perspective, the concern is are we being empowered or initiated into something that doesn't truly serve us?

Greece Yaqub And Burning Sands

SPEAKER_01 22:31

You are being cut off from the root knowledge, and you are going to somebody who has given you some of the knowledge. So in the Greek letter organizations, both the white ones and the black ones, they pay homage to Greek deities. They pay homage to deities like Athena, Zeus, Apollo. And if you look at their coat of arms, you can see these deities and these Greek-centered uh these Greek-centered uh undertakings even in their coat of arms. Uh, even in the even in the ritual, the ritual is paying homage to Greek society. So is that empowering for us? Well, we're not Greeks. We're not Greeks, we're not Europeans, we are Africans. Now the question should be is why is this centered on Greece? I'm glad you asked that question. Where did we run Yaqub? And where did we allow Yaqub to go? Where?

SPEAKER_00 23:43

To the caves of Europe.

SPEAKER_01 23:45

No, before that, Ya'qub. Where did we allow Yaakoub to when he was started preaching a new religion in the cities on the streets of Arabia? Preaching Islam on a luxury basis. He had filled up the entire jails. And finally the king of Mecca came to Mr. Yacoub and said, and by the way, that Ben X uh docuseries makes a mockery. Ya'cob didn't have a big head like a space alien. The message said he's called the big head Ya'cob because he was smart, he had a lot of brain power. But the king went to Mr. Yacoub in the jail and said, Look, we got to work out a deal. Your people are overwhelming society with this new teaching. What do we want? So let us go somewhere on our own. We need ships, we need supplies. And the king said, Bet. And he let Yacoub and his 59,999 followers. Yaqub made 60,000. They let him go to the island of Pilon or Patmos. What country are is Pilon and Patmos in? Greece.

unknown 24:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 25:01

Black ones and white ones. The black ones have no idea why they do this. They just do it because. Well, they copied the white ones. The white ones do it because they're in they in that ritual, they're remembering what happened to them. Like you said later on, Ya'qub, after 600 years of grasping with Caucasian, they came back to Arabia all white, again started causing trouble. The king said, Oh, here they are. We got we knew they were coming back. We got to get send them up into Europe. So we bound them up into the east gate. We put a flaming sword at the east gate to bind them up in Europe. EU means caves and hillside, and rope is the rope to bind in. We marched them across the desert from Arabia, from Mecca to Europe. It was 2,200 miles across those hot burning sands. Guess what the white fraternities do in their rituals? They cross the burning sands. Oh, wow. Hold on. The white fraternities in their rituals cross burning sands, just like the black ones. Why do the black ones cross burning sands? They had no idea. They're doing it because boss crossed burning sands, because the white ones did it. And they modeled their ritual somewhat after the rituals of the white PWI institutions. But the white ones are remembering a ritual because they don't ever want to forget. And they are explained what the meaning of that ritual is and what was done to them some uh some 6,000 years ago.

Masonry As Training For Rulership

SPEAKER_00 26:45

Check. I just want to uh acknowledge uh awake one for the five dollars, thank you, or the 499. Thank you, sir. Really appreciate you awaking awake one. Uh been rocking with NYP talk shows since the beginning. I think like a few episodes in or something like that. Been rocking with us for two years, bro. Peace to you. Yeah. So now uh I want to go into the next thing. Uh Freemasonry uh uses heavy symbolism, compass square, which overlaps with ancient teachings from an in a wide viewpoint, these symbols may be borrowed or distorted from original African uh knowledge without proper understanding. Members may participate without grasping a deeper meaning. So, how do you see that?

SPEAKER_01 27:47

Well, again, as you see in the in the public symbology of Masons, you see the you see the compass and you see the square. These are two of the working tools of a mason, of someone who is a builder, making buildings, making roads. And depending on the degree or the working order that the lodge is in, that those points will be placed in various configurations under and over the square. Now, I used to know all the rituals. I mean, anybody can order, anybody can order a Duncan's ritual off of uh off of eBay or off of uh off of Amazon, where they talk about this and they talk about the different rituals, they talk about the different positions, they talk about the different handshakes and the different grips. Uh all of it is just noise. Remember, the real goal is they're hiding a secret. And the Bible says, what man having light would hide it under a bushel basket? So all this noise of all these rituals and all this stuff they got to go through, the Caucasian Masons or Shriners are qualifying themselves for positions awaiting them. What positions are awaiting them? The positions that are awaiting them that they're qualifying for is rulership. They are to be the future presidents, the future kings, the future emirs, the future royal families. This is what they're qualifying us for. So I have not so much got bogged out in the details of each individual degree. And you'll notice the messenger throughout his teaching, he never really got bogged out in that. They are qualifying themselves. That's why most of the major uh, not major, but most of the presidents and the major uh political leaders in America, they are high-degree Masons and usually shriners, all except for one or two. This current president is not a man initiated man, not a man of the craft. He's not a mason or a shriner. And it shows because he does not have that polish. So whereas the other ones did the same amount of killing and bombing, they said it so nice and said it in such a way that the world accepted it. But this one says stuff like, we're gonna wipe out your civilization. Well, that well, that's because he hasn't been initiated in the craft. He does his rough edges have not been polished in the higher degrees of masonry and the shrine.

SPEAKER_00 30:24

Right. Now, uh, we have a question in the chat. Uh, what is Kevin Ali's knowledge in view of the Boole?

SPEAKER_01 30:33

Well, I mean, Brother Minister Aped has been covering that very well and very thoroughly. But it basically the Boole was a uh outgrowth of the uh uh what of the Niagara Society that was started by W.E.B. Dubois or W.E.B. Du Bois, and that was the quote unquote talented tenth, the so-called Negroes who were acceptable and who wanted to get along with white folks, white folks, and and they wanted to set up a buttress against the go back to the earth and do for the self-message of uh of uh Marcus Garvey and of uh oh Tuskegee University. Why's his name slipping my mind?

SPEAKER_00 31:19

Tuskegee. You said Tuskegee?

The Boule And The Talented Tenth

SPEAKER_01 31:23

Uh oh god, not George Washington Carver. I'm I'm having a senior moment. But there was what's his name? I can see I can see his face, but I can't see, I can't think of his name right now. Help me out, audience. Anyway, he said to go back to the earth, go back to farming, whereas these talented ten of bookete Washington. They wanted to, they wanted this boole society, W. E. B. Dubois, the Niagara Society, to be a buttress against, you know, that's the last thing Negroes wanted to do was go back to the farm. But that's the most important thing that a nation has to do is to be able to feed and uh its nation so it can grow. And that's what Booker T. Washington was saying. So, yeah, the boolet was set up. Again, Pharaoh feared the multiplication of the children of Israel. So they said, Well, Pharaoh, these people are getting their murmuring. What do we tell them? He said, Look, promise them nearness to me. And that's what the Pharaoh, the president, the white rulership, promised nearness to them to the boolet. Hope that wasn't too long.

SPEAKER_00 32:35

All right. Are fraternities in Masonic orders empowering black men or keeping them in controlled systems?

Empowerment Limits And A Kappa Sigma Encounter

SPEAKER_01 32:47

In a way, they're empowering, but it only provides so much empowerment. True empowerment comes from recognizing your own divinity as a black man, that we in fact are a nation. This is the secret that every black Mason, every black shiner, every black fraternity is looking for. It is this right here, the sun, the moon, and the stars, which signifies that we are an independent nation and should take our place amongst the independent nations of the earth. So it is empowering in a way if you want to integrate into this society, but it is purposefully disempowering to get you away from thinking of being an independent nation. And if you don't believe that these fraternities practice Islam in secret, I'm gonna share with you an experience that happened this weekend. Now, for years I've been saying from the teachers of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad that they practice Islam in secret, fraternities, masons, and shriners. I never had any proof of it until this weekend. We went to Indiana, long story short, we were checking out at a convenience store. I was checking out uh from the convenience store, and when I put my card in there, he saw this wren. And it was a young Caucasian man. He probably was in his late 20s, maybe early 30s. And he said, he said, are you uh are you kappa sig? And I said, No. He said, Do you know what Kappa Sig is? And my first inclination was to say, Yeah, devil, I know what Kappa Sig is. Who do you think you're talking to? But I I I tempered that. I said, Yeah, I'm very familiar with Kappa Sig. Kappa Sigma, uh Kappa Alpha, uh Teak, uh Sigma New, those were the largest uh white fraternities on the campus of University of Virginia. I'm very familiar with that. He said, Well, oh, I was just wondering because our symbol is the star and crescent. Now I never knew this before, brother. Listen to this. Their symbol is the star and crescent. Listen to what it says in there, and this is public. This is not anything probably. I got this off of Google because I immediately Googled it when I when I left there. He says that bear with me one second. Some of the core ideals of Captain Sigma. A man worthy of the Star Encresment is of the Star Increscent is described as a gentleman and a man of honor and courage, a man of zeal, yet humble, an intelligent man of truth, one who tempers action with wisdom. The symbol is also used in the name of the Star Increscent Foundation, which supports scholarships and philanthropic efforts. The Creed, the Star Increscent is the title of the fraternity's official creed, a guiding set of principles that members are taught to live by, emphasizing character and integrity. This is Kappa Sigma Fraternity, and there's their symbol. Yes, and as I'm walking out, me and another brother, we're I turn my back and I'm walking out of the convenience store, and he says, Asalam alaykum. Brother, we were in the caves and hillsides of Kentucky and Tennessee when this took place. And he gave that greeting, he said it in a way not like he was his first time saying. He didn't say it with no twang, no accent. He said it like it should be said. And I returned the greetings. First, I stopped and stunned, and I returned the greetings of Wa Lakeham Salaam. See, Kappa Sigma practices Islam in secret and openly. The masons and the shriners practice Islam in secret and openly, but they'll never tell you. They told me because they saw a civilized man. We were in class A. He knew exactly who I was. It was it was four of us. It was me, Minister Eric Muhammad, brother Gerard, and brother Shaheen. And we we jumped. So I know what he went and did. I would know he went, I know he got on the phone, just like I went and Googled him. I know he got on the phone with his brothers. I saw them. Now I have no proof of this. Saw who? I saw the ones who you talk about who wear this by nature, but will not accept it unless we tell them that it is theirs by nature. I saw the ones that the old man Elijah taught. That's what I believe he did once we left. This was in the caves in hillsides of Kentucky and Tennessee, brother. So Allah gives you little incidents like this to let you know that yeah, you're on the right path. They practice Islamic secret, but they'll never tell us, they'll never tell Cap Alpha Side or Mega Side Phi, Alpha Cap Alpha, Five Beta Secret. They'll never tell them that they're practicing Islamic secret. They'll let them go on doing their step shows, doing their hazen, getting banned off of campus. But they'll never say that you should be with the honorable age Muhammad and Muslims, they'll never say that to them. And that in and of itself is a hindrance, a boundary, if you will, in my humble opinion.

SPEAKER_00 38:29

Right, brother uh series black, the dwarf star, you don't need it. No, you don't need it. From my from my perspective, you don't need it, you know. And like I said early on, I went into masonry and realized 120 is all I really need. Now, um I want to go into the next one. Um let me see, are let me see. Can fraternities actually be tools though for economic growth and networking in the community?

Networking Wealth And A Shared Black Resort

SPEAKER_01 39:08

Can they be? They could, they should. I mean, fraternities and sororities represent the highest level of talent and brain power in our communities. These are people who have graduated from have undergraduate degrees, people who have masters, doctors. You would think that someone along the way would say, you know what, we need to establish some things. We have conventions every year, Divine Nine. Why can't the fraternities and sororities, all the divine nine, pull their money, pull their resources, leverage that money and that resource to build a think tank, an escape resort, where each fraternity and sorority would alternate having their national convention at that resort that was owned by all the divine nine equally. So we could stop dumping all those millions of dollars into the Hilton, into the high, into these convention centers. And then we could keep that for ourselves. Now that now we start building that money, now we start thinking along the lines of doing for self. Now that could be leveraged into farmland, leveraged into clothing factories, leveraged into something for our people. But again, we're not these organizations are not thinking that way. They are thinking, even though they're black Greeks, they are thinking, how do we better integrate into Caucasian society? How do we better integrate into America? I'm sorry, that's what they're thinking. And not just I'm not trying to beat up on the frats, that's what the overwhelming majority of our people are thinking. How do we better integrate into this particular society?

SPEAKER_00 40:50

Right, and honorable Elijah Muhammad taught separatism. He taught separate nation. Separate nation, separate nation, not separatism, right?

SPEAKER_01 41:02

Yeah, we don't want to be, we don't want to be, we don't want to be separate in America. We had that, it's called slavery. We want uh our own land, our own nation. Uh, maybe a couple of these states in America that are fertile and minerally rich, either here or elsewhere, with access to a waterway to the sea, so that we can then engage in trade and commerce with other civilized nations. And if and the American government should provide our needs for 20 to 25 years. And if after 20 to 25 years of sustaining us, and they already did this, they did this when they rebuilt Japan, they did this when they rebuilt Germany, they did this when they rebuilt, they're gonna do this when they they when they rebuilt Iraq, when they rebuilt Afghanistan, when they rebuilt Iran, they're gonna throw all this money in. We're saying, hey, what about the black man of America? And if we can't go for ourselves after you help us, like you're helping everybody else for 20 to 25 years, then load up all your bombs, all your planes, and fly over us and kill us all because we don't deserve to live no more. That's what the honorable Elijah Muhammad said. Then you'll be justified. But don't keep us here and keep us as a subjugated second-class member of society. But again, I'm not beating up on the fraternities and sororities for that. That is just the general thinking of us of the black men in America that if we can just get along in America, everything will be great. No, you have the we have the you and I have the capacity to run our own nation. We are a nation trapped within a nation.

SPEAKER_00 42:32

Right. I I agree with you. Um that I would say the issue is um, you know, our basis of communication, like the way we communicate with each other, and you know, the things that we we we believe in. Like I would say that our our uh uh character, cultural, belief systems are all split split in too many different directions. And I notice like people who are like Arab, you know, or Chinese or even some Latin countries, you know, would keep them together as their religion. They're not really split culturally like that.

SPEAKER_01 43:20

You know, here's a here's a perfect example. Today, my wife and I we we shop at a an Indian-run grocery store here in Charles. I'm not gonna say the name of it. Well, that Indian-run grocery store, every time I go in there, I almost a tear comes to my eyes because it makes me think of what the honorable Elijah Muhammad established with your supermarket in Chicago. And uh, and there are other, it's mainly an Indian clientele, but there are I see white people shopping there, I see black people shopping in there, and the food is much healthier there. It's a lot of the food from overseas, not this poison chemicalized mess that these five commands. And all these other large manufacturers. That is what the honorable eyes Mohammed wanted for us. And he showed us the example of it. That your supermarket was supposed to be duplicated in every city in America, along with the salam restaurant, along with your dress shop. But some other people said, Wabazdi Mohammed and his and his chief national international representative said, Well, we don't need that. America has grocery stores. Well, why does why do the Indian people have their own grocery store here in Charlotte? And they patronize it. And it's it's it's it is a superior product that they have in there, much healthier than what you see in the traditional grocery stores of America. I just that was just an example that I thought of. Yes, we if they can do it, we can do it.

Separating Into A Nation With Land

SPEAKER_00 44:46

Right, but but like as I said, the Indians aren't split. Like they unlike they focus, like their culture is centered, focused. You know what I mean? And in our our our nation of people, we got the nation of Islam, we got the five percent nation, we got these different nations, we got regular uh like Christians and all these different, you know, cultures, religions, and uh, I think that's one of the reasons we are split and can't come together, you know, to make these things happen.

SPEAKER_01 45:23

Well, let's let's say there are 80 million black people in America. We don't need 80 million black people in 100 agreement. Remember, there was a population in Mecca during the time of Yaqu. The peep the present people who you see ruling right now started out with just 59,960,000 people. That's it. That's all they started out with. And now look at them now. So it don't take 80 million or 20 million or 17 million of us. The messenger said that it is 144,000 who would be cubed and cubed off a nation. So those who don't want to come into their own nation, okay, you could you could stay with these people here. And these people here, the first thing they're gonna ask Allah is well, what can I do with these people that don't want to go with their own? Oh then, you can do whatever you want to. And there's gonna come a time where we have to make that choice. And Message Lajwama teaches us that those who don't want to go with their own, regardless of what your religion is, you don't have to go, no force. But if you stay, you will go, they will put you back into slavery again. You will see their real nature once Allah gives them the okay to take his their wrath out on you, and they're not gonna be real happy coming off of all these wars that they're going to be embarrassed under. So if you want to stay around with them, good luck with that. But just like Yaakoub and his followers, he found six, all he found was 60,000 people who were in agreement out of out of millions of Mecca, or however many people populated Mecca at that time. So it doesn't take a whole lot to begin a movement like that.

Why Other Groups Build Together

SPEAKER_00 47:19

Right, right, right. Uh Shams uh said, no, Cypher God they have a cat. You're talking about the Indians. No, I'm what I mean. Well, we were just talking as far as what I was saying, I was I'm not talking only about the Indians, I'm talking about Chinese and different people who seem to be able to work together and build you know enterprise. I'm saying with us, it's hard for us to do that because we're so split in in many different directions. Even if when you say no, you know, who's the NOI? You get what I'm saying? There's different factions. You talk if we go in in 5% motion, there's only one five percent motion. However, some say five percent motion, some say I'm not the nation of gods and earth, and then there's that back and forth with that. So there's you know, a lot of separation in our communities, and uh, I think that prevents us from doing something bigger, more uh powerful and successful.

SPEAKER_01 48:26

Well, he put that division in us on purpose, and then he gave us 18,000 million different choices of what to choose other than the right thing. So when you give people a whole lot of choices, it's like it's like when people ever see people go to a fast food restaurant, it's like, what do you want? Um I uh I don't like you've been in McDonald's and Burger King all your life, and now you don't uh because there's so many choices. Right. Again, those other nations that you mentioned, they are more homogeneous and they're more focused on what they want as a people and what they uh have been taught as a people. We've been taught so many different things that we're not sure what to believe or what to find. Right, right. I will tell you this we have written President Trump, and when I say we, uh Minister Eric Muhammad wrote President Trump and again offered him the solution of the messengers program for the solution of the so-called American Negroes. So we presented the Muslim program to him once again. We're gonna write him again uh in this term. We did it in this previous term. We're going to write him again. And again, the messenger said put the Muslim program before Congress. He didn't say put it before the United Nations, he said put it before Congress. Why? Because Congress has the ability to uh to write law, Congress also has uh the ability or has the nation's purse strength, they have the ability to appropriate or in most of the cases misappropriate funds, and that's how these other nations were built and rebuilt. Every Jewish person did not go to Israel. Think over that. Only a few went. But now the Jewish people all over the earth have a beacon to look at, which they call their homeland. And you see, I'm putting that in huge air quotes because all of that belongs to the original black man, it doesn't belong to you, right?

144,000 And Choosing Your Side

SPEAKER_00 50:44

I want I just would like to say to the chat, thank you guys for uh you know sending your gold, as we say in the five percent nation, sending your gold. Thank you for the uh uh power cypher cypher and then uh cipher born born for those who uh sent all that. Oh, yeah, and we got uh oh oh man, yeah, you're hitting us up on the chat now. Thank you, brothers. I really appreciate you. Uh so we gotta beware of your own brothers and sisters wearing turbans and feathers because they will put you back into slavery, yes, sir. Yes, sir. Remember that. That's a quote from I think Noble Jolly. Uh Brother Minister Eric Maha. Uh okay. I'm having a senior moment. Brother Minister Kevin Ali is correct. I used to have white primers stop me on the corner to buy the Salaam newspaper. All right, all right, all right.

SPEAKER_01 51:49

When when when they see us, they recognize us. I remember several years ago, uh my daughter is in the band, they had a competition, and it my daughter said, Wow, that looks like a temple. It was a shriner's building, it was a shriner's temple. And in that crowd of black people who were in this rented facility, I saw one white face. I told my wife, I said, There's there's the shriner right there. And I went over to him and I gave him the grip of an entered apprentice. I said, We had some little small talk. I said, Looks like it's about time, doesn't it? He said, Yeah, it's getting to be that time. What time? The time of the fall of America, the time when the messenger teaches us that the white masons and shriners would reach out to us and assist us. Now, I I don't know any more details than that, brother. He just said they would help us one day. And I said to him, it looks like the time, he said, yeah, it's getting to be that, it's getting close.

SPEAKER_00 52:57

Okay. So basically the gist of what you're saying is that um masonry, fraternities, shriners, etc., it's all Islam secretly.

Letters To Congress And Closing Thanks

SPEAKER_01 53:12

It's all Islam secretly. They sell it, they merchandise off of it. The white ones use it to improve their geopolitical, sociological, and economic position. But it is all Islam in secret. And I'm not sure how much more time we had. I want I wanted this for the benefit of every black divine nine member. I'm gonna read this because I don't want to mess it up by memorization. Every black divine nine member who says, These are my sands. A sand is somebody who you cross the burning sands with. You have no idea why you crossed the burning sands. I have asked every one of the people I was close to in my fraternity, why do you cross the burning sands? And none of them could give any answer. The closest, decent answer they could give was that it's to symbolize some type of struggle. Okay, well, here's what Messenger Elijah Muhammad says about crossing the burning sands. Why did we run Ya'qub and his made devil from the root of civilization over the hot desert into the caves of West Asia, as we now call it Europe? What is the meaning of EU and rope? How long ago? What did the devil bring with him? What kind of life did he live? And how long before Musa came to the devil forgotten tricked down because he had started causing trouble amongst the righteous people, telling lies. They accused the righteous people, causing them to fight and kill one another. Yaqu, Jacob of the Bible, was an original black man, and he is the uh the father of the devil. He taught the devil to do this devilishness. The root of civilization is in the Arabian desert. That's why you cross the burning sands and you go into Greekdom because the burning sands that were crossed by the Caucasian uh devils, that burning sands represented death for them and a struggle for them that they're remembering. And they were bound up in Europe again because that's where they came from after their genesis. They came from Greece, they were shoved back up into Europe. A flaming sword was placed at the east gate, which is the flag of Turkey or the country of Turkey. Who are the Turks? The Turks are Caucasian Muslims who believe in Islam. And they were put there because Yaqub was the founder of Unlike Attract and Like Repel. So if those devils came down out of the caves again, the first people they will run into are people who look just like them and they would go back up into the caves and the devils would repel them into the caves again. That is supreme wisdom. That is what your ritual is ritualizing, but of course, you don't know it, but the white man does, especially the Mason, especially the Shriner, and as we know now, especially the members of Kappa Sigma fraternity know this, but you don't.

SPEAKER_00 56:09

All right, all right. Now, uh, before we go, um I want this I'm putting this out there. I'm not I'm not putting you guys on the spot, but I would like to see a podcast with two and a brother Achmed.

SPEAKER_01 56:23

Sure. Anytime.

SPEAKER_00 56:25

Yeah, yeah. That'll be what y'all think in the chat. Brother Kevin Ali and Ahmed on Freemasonry, the Boole, Nation of Islam. That'll be that'll be that'll be something else. That'll be something to something to watch right there, y'all.

SPEAKER_01 56:41

Well, I I think part one, I view this part one. He did part two tonight of the boole.

SPEAKER_00 56:46

What today?

SPEAKER_01 56:47

I viewed part one the other day. He did part two of the boole.

SPEAKER_00 56:51

Part two, yeah. Not to watch that news week at all. Oh, yeah. Don't forget Mel Tezzedek. I would be honest with you, Mel Chezadek is tough. He's tough, man. To talk, like, I gotta go see him in person because on the phone, he's he's tough to talk to on the phone. Um, before we go, um, is there any last words we would like to share and let people know where to find you?

SPEAKER_01 57:20

Well, they can find me across any of my social medias, are Kevin Ali. I'm on YouTube, Snapchat, Instagram, uh, TikTok, Facebook. And and I I would just like to say that uh I appreciate your discussions, Brother Ron, the guests you bring on, and I appreciate the ability to have righteous dialogue and righteous disagreement. We're not gonna always see everything eye to eye. Right. Honorable Muhammad teaches us that the holy scientists of Islam, they argue over one word they argue over. So an argument is not a bad thing until it gets until it gets ugly. So I uh am looking to have a discussion with a minister, a minister of Minister Louis Farrakhan to prove that what they teach comes from the teachings of the honorable Elijah Mahonga. I would like to I would like to have that discussion with somebody at some point in the near future. But yeah, I'd love to talk with Brother Ahmed. I mean, you have some great brothers on here, great sisters on here, and great program. And again, I'd just like to thank you for uh inviting me to share with you what I have learned from this great man of God, the humble and honorable Elijah Muhammad, messenger of Allah. Indeed.

SPEAKER_00 58:37

On that note, thank you guys for coming out this evening. I really appreciate you. I will see you sky Sunday uh and next week, man. So uh don't forget to like, comment, share, subscribe. Thanks to everyone who contributed to the super chat. That's gonna really help this channel grow. Remember, we're not only a channel, we're an actual podcast, so we're on Spotify and all that stuff. Um, so you know, somebody said, Yeah, I see it, brother. I see it. I saw I saw that the secret of Freemasonry by Elijah Muhammad. Yeah, so on that note, thank you for coming out this evening. Again, like, comment, share, subscribe. We're on Spotify, we're on Apple, we're everywhere where podcasting is. This is a podcast, just not a YouTube page. Help us grow the brand. We're trying to keep it in, we're trying to do sto have studio and have stream. Have studio and have stream, you know. So that's the goal. That's the goal, but you know, we gotta pay for it. Anyway, we're out of here. That's all I'm gonna let for.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:02

Well, they can follow.