West Coast Vs East Coast Hip Hip

You’ve heard “West Coast vs East Coast hip hop” framed as a single rivalry, but that story falls apart the minute Oakland enters the room. We sit with Bay Area voices who grew up inside the music, the neighborhoods, and the era, and they explain why the foundation still traces back to the Bronx while the branches grew into totally different regional cultures.

We walk through an Oakland rap timeline that starts with early local names like Super Rat, then moves into Too Short’s street-level genius for independent hustle, and the way that hustle influenced everything that came after. We get into MC Hammer’s rise through dance culture, why producers like Ant Banks matter so much to the Bay’s sound, and how artists like Spice 1 reflect both raw creativity and the harsh realities of the crack era. We also call out how “West Coast rap” often gets treated like it only means Los Angeles, even though Northern California built its own lane with everything from trunk-slapping 808s to lyrical crews connected to the Hyro legacy.

Then we fast-forward to Mac Dre, the power of persona and marketing, and the modern tension that shows up when big artists borrow Bay Area classics while stirring up regional politics. We close by shouting out current artists to watch and asking the harder question about identity: what does a city lose when its sound and leadership get pulled off-center?

Subscribe for more deep hip hop history, share this with a friend who argues regions, and leave a review with your pick: which Bay Area record defines the culture for you?

Transcript

Audio Issues And Quick Setup

SPEAKER_05 0:11

What is going on, everybody out there? It's Ron, founder of the NYP talk show in the Building Fitness Professional. Uh, you know, aka Soul Brother number one report. I can't hear nobody. Hold on, hold on, hold on one second. Hold on one second. All right. So so dig it. If anyone has J Mo's number, can someone contact him and let them know to click out and then come back on?

SPEAKER_03 0:39

Yeah, I'm gonna do that right now.

SPEAKER_05 0:41

All right. I'm gonna do that right now.

SPEAKER_03 0:42

I'm gonna click out and come back in.

SPEAKER_05 0:44

All right, that's peace. All right. All right, so now um today we're talking about West Coast versus East Coast hip hop, right? I like to put the verses up there because people like to see verses, they like to see uh controversy, but this is not necessarily a versus, you know what I'm saying? Uh, you know, I'm just we're just speaking on uh hip-hop, hip-hop history, uh uh preferably Oakland, right? Because I'm very interested in Oakland, MC's Oakland hip hop, because uh some of my favorite rappers come out of Oakland. You know what I'm saying? So I mean, to start off the conversation, when I when I had that title up there, West Coast versus East Coast Hip Hop, what's the first thing that came to your mind? Let's start with Big C.

West Coast Vs East Coast Framing

SPEAKER_01 1:36

First thing came to my mind is the controversy of Tupac and Biggie. You know, coming from Oakland, we was raised but in the the um mentality of the Panthers, man, you know, black brotherhood togetherness. So and that that's the first thing to come to my mind. Um it's different styles, but it all the foundation is still the same.

SPEAKER_05 2:01

Okay, okay. So different style foundation is still the same, being that it comes from the root, the soil, uh uh uh hip-hop, Bronx, and all of that type of stuff. That is that what you mean?

SPEAKER_01 2:13

You know, we got it. I remember in the 80s when I seen, you know, I used to listen to Spoony G when I was a young. So I'm I'm in my 50s, I'm I'm up there. So I was just I came in on Spoony G, Spider D, um, AMPM, Dr. Deckel, Mr. Hyde, um, Run DM C, you know, all the classics, you know, Melly Male, you know, Melly Male made us want to rap, you know. So um when we heard the when I heard the message, it was over. You know, so um I give props to the the the Bronx, man, where it came from. But I'm from Oakland, California, and we got some spitters out here too with the same energy and the same spirit.

SPEAKER_05 2:53

Right now, check this out. Now, you're a little older than me, right? So Spoonie G, I didn't get that. I started listening to hip hop with Biz Marquee.

SPEAKER_01 3:03

Okay. I seen Biz, man, I seen Biz tear the Oakland Coliseum up um at the Fresh Fest. Um, I came in, he was he was doing that. Yeah. Oh man, it was I love Biz Marquis. So, you know, make the music with your mouth, biz was one of the beats that you would hear coming down Foothill Boulevard, knocking hard with 215s and somebody in some um zenith some vogues or a nice color paint, you know. That's what we was knocking back then too.

SPEAKER_05 3:33

Indeed. So now give me some history around or some music around Spoonie G and the artists that you mentioned. Because as I said, um you know, I I'm a little younger, you know what I mean? So I don't, I don't, I don't remember Spoonie G. I don't remember those guys, you know.

SPEAKER_01 3:49

Okay, like C Sequence, well, bam, the monster gem, um, all that, that was house music. That was house party music to us. So you would go, we were in the 80s, uh late, late 7980s, when um um the Sugar Hill Gang came out and and Grandmaster Flash was doing their thing. That was like house party music. We used to have house parties every weekend, different spots throughout the city, and um that's what they would be playing. That's what we'll be playing in the old school cars, that music. And that was the introduction to us into hip hop from the beginning, from the very early stages. You would get records, and um, you would have instrumentals on the other side, and we would get those instrumentals and we would rap over those instrumentals, and that's how two short started doing it. Two shorts first songs, he was rapping over instrumentals from east from the east coast.

SPEAKER_05 4:48

Gotcha. All right, so hip hop started in the late 70s, if I'm not mistaken, and the bronze, I

Early Hip Hop Roots And Classics

SPEAKER_05 4:55

think it was Cedric Avenue and all that. So the late 70s. So when did Oakland, California get into the hip-hop, like start as far as like putting the first outist house? So who was the first artist in what year?

SPEAKER_01 5:11

About 1980, we had I was going to Roosevelt Junior High School in the 20s. We called it the Dubs, the Murder Dubs, the Tromps, the Rolling 20. That's where I grew up at. And um, it was a guy named Super Rat. He came through. Back then, you had the Egyptian lover that was DJing from LA. So um our first entry into it was Super Rat. We heard Super Rat, and um, he was an older guy on the motorcycle, but then shortly after that, she got two short. And two short used to make the be on the bus. We would get on a 40 bus. You know, back then everybody was on a bus. We didn't have cars, we were youngsters. So that was like the social gathering for everybody. We'd just get on there to ride. Um, and um, two short would be on there playing his mixtapes and uh playing his music, and he was tight. He was different, you know, he was um totally different from New York. It was a unique sound coming from our area, and he was talking about, you know, everything Short was talking about and the way he rapped embodied the energy of the town at that time. So he came off, he came off, he he came off that bus. We used to perform at house parties. He was very popular, and two too short was our first introduction to it. I had a cousin named Tony G. Tony G was killed a long time ago, and Tony Grant. And um, Tony used to try to challenge um Too Short. So we would have battles uh at the YMCA parties, you know, they throw parties at the YMCA, and um we get into it fighting and stuff like that, but that was our first introduction into rap. Too short coming on there doing um blow job Betty, um invasion of the flat booty bees. Uh and that's what that's where it started at, man.

SPEAKER_05 7:09

All right, so but before before before I move on to the to the uh to LDs or Yaya, I want to ask Big C this. Now, being that um, hold on a second. Being that uh from what I know, from what I know being on the East Coast, you know, uh the Rolling 20s is a Crip game. Right?

SPEAKER_01 7:32

Let me laugh loud at that. Oh we don't gang bang like that in Oakland. Right, never exactly. So that's where that's where the rolling 60s in LA is a crip game. The 20s is an area, is a is one of the older um African-American neighborhoods in East Oakland, and it's um home. There's a lot of vice in that area. Back in the day, we had a Kingpin in that area um by the name of Mick, Mickey Moore, and um on 23rd, and they were our first celebrities, you know. Um they were the they were the guys that looked like the rappers now. And this is like 78, 79, you know. So um the dubs, our our our our thing in our city back then, I'm a grown-ass man. I excuse my language out of my work right now, but we were in the streets and we were just a neighborhood and we stuck together. But we didn't gang. We had we had cousins from Sobradi Park, from West Oakland, from um 85th. And uh we didn't we wasn't pushing no line like that. We just we just we just identified as who we where we came from.

SPEAKER_03 8:54

All right. Hey C give them a little context to let them know how far Oakland is from LA, real quick, because they don't really know. Tell them how far Oakland is from LA.

SPEAKER_05 9:04

Right, real quick, real quick, one more question, because that's a that's a great that's a great point right there. Oakland from LA, right? Now, but just before we go into that, because that's a that's a good point. Here's a segue to it. So now I know y'all don't have gangsland. That that's something I know for for sure, right? But what you say about Juice and Messi Marv, who are from Oakland, if I'm not mistaken, right? But they're like bloods.

SPEAKER_01 9:33

Um they're well they're from San Francisco, but um they're outsiders to that that mentality is like a um um what we would call um nut hanging. You know, he's don't nobody do that but him. I think he's the only blood member in his gang. You know, I don't know nothing about because I don't see a big set of bloods in San Francisco operating like that unless it's the Vietnamese or the Samoans.

How Oakland First Caught Rap

SPEAKER_06 10:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 10:11

Juice actually comes from from Sacramento. Yeah, well I hear I hear J Mo.

SPEAKER_02 10:18

Okay. Juice, Juice actually comes from Sacramento from O Park Bloods. So that's where his affiliation comes from of the blood thing. Matthew just picked that up. He so-called picked it up from jail from Arkansas, some uh his family from Arkansas, and he got put on from through them or something like that. So, like C was saying, he basically was uh in uh nut hanging and and you know doing something that was very unheard heard of. And in the Bay Area, the Samoans and the uh Asians are the only that that deal with the uh Crips and Blood thing or in San Jose. Also in San Jose, they have Crips and Blood.

SPEAKER_05 11:03

Okay, okay. So now to back back to LD's point, he was saying how far is Oakland from Los Angeles?

SPEAKER_02 11:12

Five hours.

SPEAKER_03 11:13

God damn it. Yeah, it's essentially from like New York to DC or something like that. It's like five hundred five hundred miles roughly.

SPEAKER_05 11:23

Okay, so it would so like if we're talking from a New Yorker's perspective, that's like that's like from New York City to Buffalo, New York.

SPEAKER_04 11:32

Yeah, we that's like New York to Buffalo or Niagara, somewhere up there for sure.

SPEAKER_05 11:37

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:38

We five hours five hours away and our cultures are totally night and day.

SPEAKER_05 11:43

Right. Same, same as NYC and Buffalo. Right.

SPEAKER_04 11:47

Yep. And that kind of like it kind of bleeds over into um when people talk about the West Coast, they specifically are talking about LA and they really don't look at the Northern California music scene as a viable way to actually have any foothold. And when we talk about, you know, uh the difference between the regions of the music and how we say our rhymes.

SPEAKER_05 12:08

Okay, can you give me an example?

SPEAKER_04 12:11

Uh like for like for instance, um the man Northern California is more, I would say my music, which is a kind of like a subsidiary of gangster rap, if you want to put it like that. My music is more about the hustle, about the game, about um sharing ideas and thoughts, rather so than I would, in my opinion, Southern California music is more about embellishing the gang culture out there. It's not the uh outside of bloods and crips, what culture does LA really give to the music scene? When you talk about like the the rap acts that are out right now, like the like the black hippie cats and the Kendrick's camp and stuff like that, that's a relatively new wave when it comes to that aspect of Los Angeles music or Southern California music being put to the front.

SPEAKER_05 12:59

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_02 13:01

All right, so explain. I feel like I feel like just like just like in the Bay, um, there's a lot of different varieties everywhere up in California of different sounds and different techniques and different ways they approach the music. But uh what's also what's uh publicized and put out there in the mainstream is usually the uh the G-Rap, the the the gangster stuff. You know what I'm saying? So if you go, if you were to spend time in LA or if you were seeking straight hip hop, straight backpack, straight lyrical assassin or um uh battle rap, you can find that anywhere up and down California. It's just what they want to uh the stigma that they want to stick upon us. Just like in a bank. It's not just all uh my music and uh to that to that extent. It's not just all he music to that extent, it's a bunch of everything out there. Like the um the biggest, one of the largest um collections is the Hyro, the Hyro crew, which one which I'm affiliated with, and uh, you know, Soul Submissions. There's not a Bay Area group artists that tour more than Soul Submission, but yet they're never mentioned when you talk about Oakland artists.

SPEAKER_05 14:19

Wow, wow. Now uh Casual, is he from uh he's from he's from Oakland Row.

SPEAKER_02 14:25

Yes, he's from High Row.

SPEAKER_05 14:26

He's High Row. Casual is one of my favorite MCs of all time.

SPEAKER_04 14:32

Man, dude's been a monster for years, man. It's like, man, it's crazy because when you talk about bar smiths and multi-syllables and in and out and typewriter rhymes and stuff like that, casual's been doing that for years. And like it's kind of like when you talk about just like how uh how uh J-bo was saying how it's a it's a lot of different styles of rap that don't get put to the front because of the ones that are that are commercially accepted on the broad stream. We we have like our equivalent to to Big L would have been rap and rhyme. You dig what I'm saying? Um when we talk about certain certain rap characters or certain uh rap acts or stuff like that, like even though Humpty, even though Humpty is from Brooklyn by way of Tampa, and you're saying that whole idea of like the different personas, like cool keith and things like that, that's something that was always organically a part of our culture anyway.

SPEAKER_05 15:21

Okay, very now now. I want you to explain the history because we because I know about two short, right? So two short came about. I was watching two short on uh I think it was I don't know what it was, I think it was video music box, one of the well actually video music brothers video music box is actually NY, but it was another show that used to come on. We used to watch all the brothers from the West Coast.

SPEAKER_04 15:45

Um, I just it was called a Juke Box at first, and then it then it got transferred to the box.

SPEAKER_05 15:50

Yeah, ah, you're right, you're right about that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's where you can make calls, right? You can call in and you can call call in and and and and request whatever joint you want to have on.

SPEAKER_02 16:02

You can't hear the brother run.

SPEAKER_05 16:05

You can't hear me? Check, check, check, check, check. You hear me now? Oh, you you might have to go out and come back in. Yeah, so so let's let's uh let's get let's continue to build on this. So now um the jukebox then became the box. That's where I think I saw that. And then there was another show that came on later on. Was that MTV not? Couldn't have been MTV.

SPEAKER_04 16:34

It might have been BET Uncut. I think that might have been that that's what it was. It wasn't too many, um, unless you want to go back to like Friday night videos on MBC back in the day or something like that. But our our stuff wasn't on that, so it had to be either either the box or uh or b uncut.

SPEAKER_05 16:49

Yeah, yeah. You you you yo, if your mind me asking, how old are you, brother? I'm 43. Yeah,

Neighborhoods Aren’t LA Gang Sets

SPEAKER_05 16:55

so we're the same age. So yeah, you can't do it. Yeah, yeah, you know what it is. Yeah, yeah. Got you, got you. All right, so um on the box. You said what?

SPEAKER_01 17:05

Stove, we um was that's right on station that we could see all the local um artists on too. It was like a um production from a um local producer. I forgot his name. What is his name? Um what's his name, J Mo?

SPEAKER_00 17:23

Chuck Johnson. Chuck Johnson. Yeah, Chuck Johnson.

SPEAKER_01 17:28

Chuck Johnson used to be the owner of Soulby, and he would have um local host shows, and they would play um uh periodic throughout their shows.

SPEAKER_05 17:40

Big C your your your sound sounds a little janky, but um um uh if you try to fix your sound if you can. So now uh uh give me a little more history, right? Like a timeline. So I remember coming up watching uh two short when he had a hairline. You know what I'm saying? So after two short came, who else? Well matter of fact, who came before two short? You said his name was rat the rat the rat rat somebody um what is his name?

SPEAKER_00 18:15

Super rat super rat. So he ride up in the motorcycle and be I'm the super rat.

SPEAKER_05 18:26

You can't happen that 1990s music, man. I gotta look that up now. So you got super rat, and then after that, two short, and then after two short was it e40, or am I bugging out?

SPEAKER_03 18:44

Um area-wise, you had like what rapping for K, uh Kim Fresh, Kimmy Fresh, uh Richie Rich. They were all kind of like just like too short.

SPEAKER_04 18:56

You gotta say 415 because Richie was in 415 first.

SPEAKER_03 19:00

Right, right, right, right. It's kind of safe. Is it safe to say that too short and LL is kind of like contemporaries as far as like time-wise?

SPEAKER_00 19:10

Yeah, too short created the crew.

SPEAKER_01 19:13

She had a lot of groups, like they said, Rap and Run and them, and um um what was the dub put out that um compilation that was knocking? He had um Dave D producing um Cell Block, you know, but came here Father Dom, uh FM Blue. Um you had a artist now.

SPEAKER_00 19:36

MC Pooh, me next to Kimmy and my brother. Yeah, right. No.

SPEAKER_05 19:47

But hold hold on a second, hold on a second, Bixie. Uh uh, your sound sounds a little funny, uh, and people are gonna pick that up on Spotify and all that type of stuff. So if you if you could uh fix that, that'll be peace. Uh but uh to to can someone uh pick up from where he left off. Can you be a little bit right now? No, it's still funny.

SPEAKER_00 20:10

All right, yeah, let me try to take the phone down. Hold on, let me not check the earphones.

SPEAKER_05 20:24

All right, J Mo is stationary right now.

SPEAKER_02 20:28

J Mo, you hear me? Yeah, man. I I my apologies.

SPEAKER_05 20:31

It's okay, don't worry about it, brother. So now uh we were running down like the history uh after two short, like the rappers that came after two short. I said I was I threw E40 in there just to throw them in there to see.

SPEAKER_03 20:45

Oh, I'm tripping. I'm tripping. MC Hammer, MC Hammer, we tripping, MC Hammer. MC Hold on, hold on. So MC Hammer came after two short? Yep, he came out around what 86-ish, 86-7.

SPEAKER_05 21:01

Okay. What would if if you if I don't know if you could recall, how did he start? Because like in New York, like a lot of rappers, they battle on the street, you know, they come from that kind of claw. MC Hammer, I know he was tough, like he he might beat you up if you get out of line, from what I'm hearing. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_03 21:22

Well, you know what? I'm gonna tell you like this. I was a little kid, but I'm gonna actually have to have J Mo or Big C after this, because they got a few years on me. But what I know about MC Hammer is that he used to go to local clubs and and do his songs and they used to spend his records, and I think they just used to like they used to be hella people dancing, and they just used to own the floor. If that's that's just how I remembered it, but I was like eight years old or ten, but J-Mo or uh Big C will be able to give you a direct, um, more of a valid uh interpretation of how MC Hammer got put on.

SPEAKER_05 22:00

Okay, J Mo, J Mo, uh Big C sound. We trying to get C Big C sound is is scope aesthetic. But uh uh uh J Mo. So what what what what would what do you recall about uh MC Hammer? J Mo, you hear me? All right, all right I think he froze out all right so uh big C, what's going on? How did you see it?

SPEAKER_02 22:35

Ask the question again, brother.

SPEAKER_05 22:38

So after okay, we J Mo back. So after after two short you had uh MC Hammer, how did MC Hammer come up in his day? Like was he a MC rhyming on a block? How did that work?

SPEAKER_02 22:53

Okay, so before before rapping, we we were dancing. Before dancing, we was pop locking, we was breaking. And and that's the road that MC Hammer

Bay Vs LA Distance And Culture

SPEAKER_02 23:05

made it through. He was a cold dancer. Um, they used to call him Sweaty Stanley. Um, he used to go and bust moves through the dances and sweat hard, sweat it out, dancing real hard. And that's how he kind of got his reputation around the town, as far as you know, everybody knowing that he was a dancer. When we all danced and did our dance, our breakdancing and dancing, then music when when the rap started coming in, everybody started you know upgrading and transferring over to uh rapping and stuff like that. So naturally, he I guess his talent you know caught up with his dancing, and that's why he's more he's more known, widely known as the greatest entertainer versus a rapper.

SPEAKER_05 23:48

Uh, that makes a lot of sense. You summed that up. So now after you got two short, then you got MC Hammer. Who was the next MC? I heard somebody say rapper Forte.

SPEAKER_02 24:00

No, Forte from San Francisco, but he was in the same era. Yes, yes, yes, and no. He's from Frisco, but yet he was in the same era with short. Um, after short, you would get uh 415. You get 415, which was Richie Rich, D Lo uh, DJ Durrell. Um, that they they started bubbling and coming. Uh Pooh Man, MC Pooh, all them around at that era. But uh the savior, I would believe, uh not lyrically, but as a producer was Ant Banks. Ant Banks was was a producer, was R Dr. Drake.

SPEAKER_05 24:38

He was oh wait a minute, Ant Banks. You know what name comes after Ant Banks, right? Uh uh Spice One.

SPEAKER_02 24:45

Yeah, yeah. So so Banks Banks been around a long time, and Banks been a lot of like MC Ant, Rest in Peace, um, uh Dangerous Dame, uh Riley Brow, uh these is you know, cats that I can't my age limit, my age group that that when I was dancing and started pop locking and started rapping, these are the cats of my peers. Um Banks was the one who went through, he was there through all of them, through you know, he was an understudy of two short, and then through uh him, everybody else came.

SPEAKER_05 25:21

Okay, so so I heard of Ann Banks from from uh uh spice one. Who who made those beats in the early?

SPEAKER_02 25:31

I can't hear the brother Ron.

SPEAKER_05 25:33

Can you hear me now? Can you hear me now? I can hear you now. You get you can hear me? Yeah, you can hear me. All right, so uh with Spice One, let's go. I'm going back to the Spice One. Who made those beats on Spice One Spice One's album?

SPEAKER_01 25:55

And Banks One's Spice One Dad, yeah. I think Anne Banks did, but Spice One's dad was his first producer, and um he whatever they got that um those beats from. Did you think they got um 187 proof from Anne Banks? Is that where it came from?

SPEAKER_02 26:13

No, I don't think Banks didn't produce 187 proof.

SPEAKER_01 26:16

Yeah, that was like his dad was like they were older men back then because I stayed in the back of Spice One and them. I know his mom is dad. We grew up together, and his dad um um would um would we know was connected with some people and they were some professional um beats.

SPEAKER_02 26:37

Spice one started rapping because big C. Big C was rapping first, and then Spice Man got on beat uh Zoe and Spice Man started following C. Well, that's crazy.

SPEAKER_05 26:50

Hold on, big C that's on the camera right now. Yeah, yeah, hold up, yeah, hold up, bro. Hold up, time out, hold up, hold up, hold up. First of all, Spice One is one of my favorite rappers. I can't hear the brother Ryan, man. Spice one is my one of my favorite rappers, and and so is Casual. So now hold up. Spice one started rapping following behind Big C.

SPEAKER_01 27:15

Okay, so yeah, I was like the older okay.

SPEAKER_05 27:19

So, where did Spice One get his style from? Like he had a lot of different styles.

SPEAKER_01 27:27

Yeah, Spice always talked like that, man. He just was very creative, and um, he would tell you these stories, and you know, when he did that, it was like incredible to us, man. But you know, I had a um rap called Scarface, Tony Montana Elliott Scarface, and um uh we you know, all we also used to make little stuff, but when he did that, he I mean, you know, it just came out of him, man. That he did he he's he that he's authentic, he's always been like that.

SPEAKER_05 27:56

You know, his content is super violent, though.

SPEAKER_02 27:59

I'm gonna leave out and come back again because I can't hear the brother Ron, man. Oh, I definitely need to hear him. Gotcha.

SPEAKER_01 28:05

Okay, yeah, his style, where did he get all the violence from? Well, the town back then, Oakland was a very violent place back then, you know, the 80s and the crack crack era and all that generation. So uh Spice lived in Hayward, though. You know, uh my mom stayed out there for I think two years. That's when we stayed on RFAB behind them. And um, he would, you know, we had a paper at Oakland Tribune, it was very popular. So um you could go on the tribunal every day and see who got killed, and at the end of the year, they would put the faces in um in the paper. It'd be like uh 160. You know, Oakland's not a big city, but you know, 160 was a lot to us. 200, that's a that's a hell of a lot. So Spice was very creative, man. He he was around it, but he was raised as a good kid.

Underground Oakland Lyricists Get Ignored

SPEAKER_05 28:55

Okay, okay. He was around it, but he was raised as a good kid. That's kind of interesting, though. You know, because the content, the content says something else, though. So um, um hold on, the big C Big C got knocked out of there. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 29:14

I think that's in that part of the allure of rap in general, is that I mean, let's be real about it. 99 of rap is just boisterous talk. Most of the people who out there really doing the stuff that they're doing, not really talking about it, it's just the trend now to where everybody's getting themselves indicted because they putting what they do in their raps. But I mean, I think the the aspect of what you know rap has always been, it has been this grandiose larger than life persona.

SPEAKER_05 29:40

Okay, okay. Yeah, you're right.

SPEAKER_02 29:43

Man, for some reason I can't hear Ron. Okay, okay. I can hear everybody else but Ron.

SPEAKER_05 29:53

Check, check, check. You hear me now? No, you don't hear me now. All right. Um, so uh this is what we're gonna have to do. Um you're gonna have to like relay the message to J Mo Jay Mo somehow. But um so we're talking about Spike One and how he he basically Big C said he grew up as like uh like a regular kid or what have you, right? But and and the content was uh exaggerated, I guess, you know. Um you know, but now let's but damn, and I have so many more questions about.

SPEAKER_01 30:28

Well let me let me let me let me chime in on that. Why let me let me chime in on why it was exaggerated because that's what we were seeing every day. And it like we would make when you rapping, you want to make these stories um as believable and as um as um raw as possible. Spice did grow up around some some stuff, but he was able to uh make music and get out of that. And at one time Spice was on the block. You know, I used to go by telling to get off 23rd, because you know, go go go to the studio, man. What you do? He had to make a little money. He was hustling. He was welcome around, you know, he was at home around the gangsters, and you know, he got some gangsta in him, but he was a rapper, you know. Now we, on the other hand, me and my brother Larizzo, we were the kind of rappers that would we were living it by not by choice, by um necessity. You know, we had to get out there and hustle to survive. So that was what we we hustled, we hustled, we used to sell coke. And um, everybody, you know, around the country, I'm telling uh I'm pretty sure at that time, that's what young people was doing, except the ones that was, you know, doing right. But we were we were in the streets and we were living that life, and um, that's what we were talking about. And we used to call the gangster music reality rap, you know, because this is what the reality was. It was just, you know, the first and the 15th, the police, um um killing, um, all the stuff. And we we we was around that all our life, you know. So we talked about that at this present point, when when when um, you know, I seen that era led to this era, you know, um the crackheads, crack babies, um um um disenfranchised children raising raised, being raised without fathers and stuff like that. But it it really was real hard back in the 80s and the 90s. It was a lot of death, a lot of um destruction in our communities. And that was that's where all that stuff came from. He got it honest.

SPEAKER_05 32:41

Now, now let me ask you this. So in in NY, the 80s and 90s, so I grew up in Harlem, and uh, so I saw like fiends and all of that and the effects of crack like live and live and direct, like every day, you know what I'm saying? So, you know, um I I I know what it was like from my environment. Like I grew up in a project next to another project, next to 8th Avenue, whereas like uh, you know, you know, uh y'all already know like the Alpo and AZ and all of that's I grew up in that area right there, right? Right. So so like it, like that movie paid in full was definitely somewhat of a depiction of what we experience, you know what I'm saying? So you could kind of like get an idea. Now in Oakland, there was no movie made. I remember the only movie I watched from like that was it made it uh uh well depicted like what Oakland was like was like from the Black Panther movie, like Huey P. Newton and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_04 33:48

So um, but I say the Mac the Mac was shot in Oakland, and uh it gave a keyhole into into uh you know the the culture, the street culture, uh Oakland. Um I I guess I think that's another thing too about Oakland in particular, not to spin off another, but there's a lot of influence of the whole global market that came specifically from Oakland that doesn't even get touched on.

SPEAKER_02 34:15

All right.

SPEAKER_03 34:15

So even the comic book, even the comic book Black Panther, that first part is in Oakland.

SPEAKER_02 34:21

And I and I feel like um um one of the I mean I feel like the depiction of how we seen Harlem and Pavy Fool is visions of what we we will see in Oakland. Like you seen it was the same thing. A young dude, too much money, gathering, kicking it, showboating, acting the food, being the who's a stylist, who had the most style, you know, it was it was basically the same thing, just on a different side of the coast.

SPEAKER_01 34:51

Yeah, we had a guy named Pondo White selling hundreds of kilos a week, Emmanuel Lacey. Um, we had some we had some crack superstars in our area in our town, too.

SPEAKER_02 35:03

And even if you go like earlier with when she was talking about our neighborhood, Mickey Moe. Mickey Mo was the first million-dollar drug dealer out of Oakland. He put on Phoenix Mitchell, he put on Harvey Winston. So he the one who put them on. He was the first millionaire drug dealer out of Oakland. Not nothing to brag about, but he also was the first independent rap label in Oakland. If two short just did an interview speaking on how he wanted to sign to Hold This Records, which was owned by Mickey Moe, how he was going by his uh his office and trying to catch him there, and he just wanted to give him a demo he wanted to be signing in. But that's a that's another part of our history, you know, that that that gets taken out the picture a lot.

SPEAKER_04 35:52

Yeah, we had our own stage, like uh y'all had y'all stage. So, like back in the day, like West Mac, West Mac was pretty much our stage. That's where all the rolls would be with their cars and you know the stroll and all that different stuff. Of course, you know, East 14th or International, whatever they call it now, whatever the case may be, has always been one of them. But when it comes to everybody stepping out and showing out and popping out, West Mac word where it was.

SPEAKER_05 36:14

Okay, okay. So West Mac was like like uh like a like a what was it like? Was it like a mall?

SPEAKER_04 36:22

I mean, it's like a bull like you know how you got like Hollis and you got uh Malcolm X that ran through Harlem and all that type of stuff, right? So in uh in Oakland, we got like four main, I would say, boulevards or corridors that take you from either east to west or s or or north to north to south, and respectively. So, you know, Bancroft, Foothill, MacArthur goes from West Oakland all the way to deep east Oakland and Foothill, Bancroft, they pretty much run parallel to um to East 14th um in that aspect of things, but West Mac and Market and West are pretty much the longest corridors on that side of uh that side of Oakland. And back then, back then Pablo, don't forget Pablo Pablo, excuse me, Russia. Excuse me, man. My bad, man.

SPEAKER_02 37:05

And back then it was it was focused around pimping. About time the

MC Hammer Ant Banks And Spice 1

SPEAKER_02 37:10

drugs, the about the time the drugs hit the scene, things was more east. Uh Bancroft MacArthur Eat on the East, more than that. But back then, when it first started, and it was the it was the scene, it was it was the stage, it was based a lot around Pimper.

SPEAKER_05 37:32

All right. All right, all right. Uh big C, you know your your your your ear is on camera. Oh no, cut that off. My bad. Uh you know, it's all good. We got to know you today, brother. We got to know you. Yo, so so so now, so you're talking about like like basically like Fifth Avenue with in Manhattan that go all the way up like that, right? Like Fifth Avenue, Madison, you know, Malcolm X like that, like from New in New York. I see what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_04 38:04

Well, what's interesting is like if you look at how New York is mapped, San Francisco Bay Area is mapped exactly the same way. The same people who developed Central Park did Golden Gate Park in San Francisco. Also, we also had the Bay Bridge was also set up the exact same way that the Brooklyn Bridge when they used to have a trolley to go across it. And they called Oakland Brooklyn. So there's a lot of nuances that carry over, you know, from East Coast to West Coast in terms of the demographic-wise of how it was set up.

SPEAKER_05 38:33

Gotcha. So let's go back to the hip-hop questions, right? Even though I want to get more into the street culture a little bit, you know, that I guess we could save that for another time. Now, um, Spice One after Spice One, or we got two we got the rat the super rat, which is the craziest name ever. Super rat too short to MC Hammer, and then who's next after that?

SPEAKER_02 38:59

It's a whole it's a whole clever of people at that at after that because by then everybody can see what was going on. Short show the world independent hustle, like you know. Um, I can't trace the independence back to nobody else but short and open.

SPEAKER_05 39:17

And brother, damn. That's a good point. I gotta cut you off. I know normally do that on his podcast, but this is some dope shit. So now look, the hustle you're talking about. Do you think that uh uh what's his name, Master P got that from Richmond out there? No, he got it from short.

SPEAKER_02 39:38

He got it from he got it from it, he got it from Oakland. I mean, if he got it from Richmond, Richmond got it from Oakland. So, you know, it's the same thing. Richmond is like a smaller city, like our little brother city. You know what I'm saying? They just as vicious, just as wild.

SPEAKER_01 39:53

Richmond had a rapper too, Calvin T from the old school.

SPEAKER_02 39:56

Calvin T still still alive, and and and uh so Richmond, if you know everybody around the Bay Area got that scene, the come up of too short. He he what people don't know that short would do is he would target people with cars and money, and he would go make a rap with their name in it, and then he'll find them and sell them that tape.

SPEAKER_05 40:17

That was his marketing, like Brucey, like Brucey V and Holland.

SPEAKER_02 40:22

Exactly. And so that picked up to where now the whole town got a song with their name in it, and everybody trying to find two shorts. Now everybody else is picking up on that game. They seen uh they seen 75 girls record label come into the dangerous crew and all that stuff. So now you got a whole plethora of of cats coming out at that point. You got your MC Pools, you got your uh MC Ants, you got um uh Seagram C a lot, like you got a bunch of just a bunch of cats coming out at that time. Now it's not just one person, it's not just oh he's a rapper of the city. Everybody's trying to put their talent to some use. Um rap attack. Uh who remember rap attack? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 41:12

Uh what was what was man? What was Drew Down rap name before we drew down? Was it Drew Cher or something like that? Something crazy like that. Man, that's that's old school. You gotta uh you gotta know around to be around to say that, man.

SPEAKER_03 41:31

But like honestly did y'all know that uh and banks made people here? Yeah, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_05 41:39

Wow, that's mystery right there. That's a classic, man.

SPEAKER_02 41:45

Banks are cold dude, man. Him him and shorty be together, man. Them dudes is cold dudes, man. I I I grew up like my Aunt Banks beat so bad, like that. That that was one of the things, you know. You wanted to try to get on the spot, like get in the spotlight so you can get an Aunt Banks beat.

SPEAKER_05 42:03

Now, check this out real quick, real, real, real quick on my history. Like, my my pop is a drummer, right? So he's like one of the best drummers in New York, and um I watched him, you know, play funk a lot. Like I grew up in a funk household, that's why I was always more attracted to uh uh West Coast Sound, to the West Coast Sound. So where did that sound come from? Funk. Funk.

SPEAKER_02 42:31

Like what artists? I mean, you had all these dudes, you had the tower of power, you have you got you got all these big artists with these big names coming to Oakland. You know what I'm saying? Like at that time, Oakland was a melting plot for black people. It was we we had that that vibe of the Panthers, we were accepting and and and and loving to black people. So all these artists from all across the country, they're trying to make it to Oakland to play in Oakland because it's the place to be. And at that, we we as youngsters, as kids, we we as the future rappers are in our living room listening to our what our mothers and dads play. You know what I'm saying? So the first thing we want to rap off of, the first instrumental we're gonna grab is something that's familiar to us, and that thought was what it was, right?

SPEAKER_05 43:22

Right, right, right. So uh uh that the difference in the sound between LA and and and and the Bay Area, what's the difference? Like what I hear in LA, they have more like a uh what's that that that guy that used the uh Roger, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:40

That's that's what they're that's the go-to, that's their go to and original sound.

SPEAKER_06 43:47

I um yeah, that's their go-to and original sound.

SPEAKER_02 43:51

Right. Uh we had a we we have more we had more um trunk trunk oriented. It has to sound good in the trunk of a car. So that's where the 808s and the kicks of the bay come from. Because the first thing you got to do, the only thing you got to do is be able to be slapped in somebody's trunk. If somebody can't put your song in their car and it's slapped and move move the crowd, you ain't him. You're gonna have to retry that thing. So that's what the first thing all artists did was go to somebody with some speakers and put it in their and put it in their car. So like a lot of kids, a lot of uh rappers, they were going to uh show or to the stereo. We were going to cars. So that's where the motivation of the sound comes from being able to sustain the audience from a car perspective.

SPEAKER_01 44:48

And also that um it was a different um types of funk. Like we use Parliament and Funk Delic and Um George, George Clinton, and um they did too, but the the the style of LA and the style of Oakland is different. So it you know, it went, they had that gangbang style, and they had this, you know, the the the the aura of how they um react, and we have the laid back pimp mac, you know, that's that like they most say that slap and that constant, you know, that that that beat.

SPEAKER_02 45:25

And I and I feel like no disrespect to LA, LA is predominantly Hispanic, and the the Mexican culture has has it blend within the black culture. Like if you look for them, the Dickies, the khakis, the lowriders, things of that sort. Now I've heard that there was black people were doing that first out there. I don't know because I'm not from out there, but from my perspective, I I always seen the parallels between the Hispanic culture bleeding into

Reality Rap From The Crack Era

SPEAKER_02 45:55

the black culture in LA, and that sound is something that they both enjoy.

SPEAKER_03 46:01

And you know what? And I want to add one thing. Uh, don't highlight their beats, even though they might have the same beat, it may be a little bit upbeat with a soul clap, you know, kind of high because soul train was down there too. So it was more dancing music. They'll make the same beat, but it'll be more upbeat slightly to dance to it, and we'll make it a little slower to ride to it, if I'm not mistaken.

SPEAKER_00 46:27

Yeah, that's true. That's true.

SPEAKER_04 46:29

That's true. I agree with that. I'm I'm agree with that.

SPEAKER_05 46:32

No, so I'm I'm looking at the chat. I'm I'm I'm I'm like agreeing with the chat. So now I think this person who's talking in the chat, the person who's talking in the chat, how old are you? Because you bringing up the first name you said was Dr. Dre. That's like you know, uh you said Dr. Dre.

SPEAKER_02 46:54

You said Yeah, if you if you were married, you should be saying the world class wrecking crew.

SPEAKER_04 47:00

If you right class wrecking crew, uh what was what was uh Q O uh Crew in Action? Something like that. CIA CIA, yeah, you know that's crazy.

SPEAKER_05 47:12

Yeah, this person might be young. He said uh LA had underground rappers like exhibit. What it exhibits from New Mexico, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 47:23

He ain't even from LA. Yeah, you he yeah, he he had a jurisdiction with that comment.

SPEAKER_03 47:29

But ain't he but is the exhibit, ain't exhibit kind of uh LA?

SPEAKER_04 47:33

Yes, I mean I kind of put him in that area with like J O felony and cats like that, like they in his like weather weather area of like you not LA for real, for real, but you LA regional, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_02 47:45

I mean, I give he's of LA, he's but he's by way of New Mexico, so I'm I'm only bringing that up because you're talking about the beginning and the underground in that time. He was some kid, he was a kid in in New Mexico then. Like if you said something like King T, you know what I'm saying? Uh King K, yeah. King T. Yeah, no profile, something like that. You know what I'm saying? Come on. What about the alcoholics?

SPEAKER_03 48:15

Where are they from?

SPEAKER_02 48:16

The Licks from LA.

SPEAKER_03 48:18

Okay, yep, and that's like in the 90s, what '93, like when they had the licks and exhibit, we had so mischief, casual. That was our answer to all that. When they came up with the dog pound, the loonies was our answer to that.

SPEAKER_05 48:32

Nice, nice. Now, Loonies is uh Yuck Mount. What the other brother didn't really numb score?

SPEAKER_02 48:43

We have a solo career like yuck.

SPEAKER_05 48:46

So so what the so okay, let's go back, let's go back, rewind timeline, right? So we had uh we went we went uh you gave me all the MCs that came out around after after after short and all that. Around the 90s, 95 when Mild Deep and all of them was coming out. What was your answer to Mild Deep out there?

SPEAKER_02 49:08

The villain. We got a whole lot of we got a whole lot of crew. We got a whole danger crew. At that point, we have a whole lot a lot of them. We got Mexican in the uh under sales coming out the 20s. We got uh we got the uh bad influence, we got um uh sido, uh three times crazy, uh delinquents, um um um the Who Riders.

SPEAKER_05 49:36

Uh you know, damn. This is like throwback. Yo, I forgot about that.

SPEAKER_02 49:43

Yeah, so like that point at that point we was coming, we was coming with abundance. Frisco was on the map with with with with RBL Posse, the the Give Road. Oh, hold on, hold on.

SPEAKER_05 49:55

So you talk uh bluebird, bluebird, bluebird on my shoulder, kid. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right, right, right, right. I got it. Okay, now you you answered mob deep and all that. So now let's take it, let's take it into the 2000s. When when I think of Oakland, or I think that I think of the Bay Area, I'm thinking of Matt Dre. You know that his name gotta come up.

SPEAKER_02 50:21

Yes, sir. Born in Oakland, raised in Vallejo.

SPEAKER_03 50:25

But Matt Dre is actually older than a lot. He's like actually Spice One in them generation, correct?

SPEAKER_02 50:33

Yeah, but Matt Dre went to jail and it you know froze his career. Like he was on, he had he had a deal like that that song that Drake's popping right now, the Too Hard for the Radio. That's Mac Dre's song. That was his single off his when he was, I think he was signed to relative or some relativity or something, but but but that was his single off of his first his first run, you know what I'm saying, when he was just straight player.

SPEAKER_03 50:59

And what year was that, Jay? Was that like 8990?

SPEAKER_02 51:02

8990, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 51:03

Yeah, 90, yeah, something like that. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 51:06

So Drake just redid a record from Mac Drake from 1990 that that just hit the charts.

SPEAKER_02 51:14

Yeah, and he and he pulled he pulled a cold little chess move with that record, man. Like if people understand, LA and Oak, um LA and the Bay, we always have this little problem between each other. And it's a lot of us that work behind the scenes to try to bring it together, but even in jail, it starts, I believe it started in jail, but we had you know prominent uh drug dealers like Freeline and Tracy recipe who went down there to buy dope and end up getting killed. And so it's always been this tension between the Bay and LA. And he what he did is went and took uh the 2R for the radio song, which he knows he's gonna get automatic Bay Area backing. Then he got went and got P Lo, who's a Bay Area native, to make the beat, and that's just doubling up on the backing, and then on the second verse, he disrespect um Mustard and Kendrick from LA, which put it put us in a cold predicament because the song is the number one on our radio station in the Bay Area right now. But they get gonna keep on yelling, I mean, hearing the disrespect, you know what I'm saying? So he he pulled a cold strategic uh chess move, which I wasn't too fond of.

SPEAKER_05 52:25

Okay, what's the name of this?

SPEAKER_04 52:27

Yeah, I don't like it. I didn't like gut either, especially since he had a history when he when he had the uh cast out rapper four tape for stealing his whole his whole what three, four bars of his whole song? Something like that. Not oh three, four. He stole his whole verse. He saw the whole verse? Man, I don't even like I don't listen to Drake, so I I just heard about him and I just Canadian action.

SPEAKER_02 52:49

I just you know yeah, he he he he stole the whole verse, and and and you know this code, you know, and fo only got a little uh because of record business, he only got a little percentage of that hundred something thousand.

SPEAKER_05 53:04

Hold hold on, somebody somebody in the chat said Mac Dre was not lyrical. No,

Mac Dre Drake And Regional Tension

SPEAKER_05 53:10

no in New York knew him. Are you crazy? I just I just mentioned Mac Dre. I'm from New York, so uh I don't know who that is in the chat. Sometimes we have we have trollers and all that.

SPEAKER_02 53:22

Um he was uh he wasn't a he wasn't a a barsmith, but he was lyrical. Drake, like you go back and listen to old Dre, Dre put it down like he he he he was he put it down like his area was putting it down. He he came from the era of two short and forte and all them. So he was a player pimp rapper before the feds. Then he came out and understood hit he understood marketing. It's crazy because myself, I I was introduced to Drake after he got out of out of the out of the pen and he was focused on his his image and the the he had a big afro. He was just kind of different. And we we we was at the first Andre Ward fight in Oakland at the Coliseum, and I was introduced to him and I was looking at him cross-eyed, like what the fuck happened to Matt Drake in jail because he was so different from with his original persona. And I was like, What the fuck? He boosie. You know what I'm saying? Like, like, like boosie means uh not not not uh not in style, like not cool. And we're like, what the fuck? But all this time he was building a persona and and and marketing himself and taking himself to a different level, so people would see that and hear that, see that era and hear that music and try to swear by that's Mac Dre. But that was Mac Dre being a genius.

SPEAKER_03 54:48

Yeah, because Mac Dre was essentially like Humpty Hump, just rapping with guns and dope on him and pimping. He was fun as Humpty Hump, but he was just rapping with, you know what I'm saying, like adding street culture to it. I seen him one time, and I swear it looked like I was looking at a cartoon. He looked almost unreal. When he walked, it damn near looked like he was floating.

SPEAKER_00 55:13

He said he's aura, huh?

SPEAKER_02 55:17

Eddie was solid as they come, man. Like uh two weeks before he died, Luke brought him up to two eight to buy some weed from us. And he just pulled up in a white beamer 750 with a snow white chick driving it. And he just he like, man, I went to school here. I got kicked out of school. I went to school here with sicker. We man, that that it was it was it was it was just crazy, you know what I'm saying? But Dre, Dre was one of them ones, man. He didn't have that uh hip-hop lyrical, uh da da da, like you know, with the words myth and things like how we rap, but he he man, he was a lyricist. He he he put that shit down to make you understand what he putting down.

SPEAKER_05 55:56

Right now, now we got about five minutes and four minutes left now. So before we cut out, of course, I would love for you brothers to come back again, you know, and chop it up and talk about you know uh the history and Oakland culture in general, because uh also the Panthers came out of Oakland, so I'm I'm very uh uh uh uh uh um I'm in tune with that. You know what I'm saying? You know, this whole podcast is based based on consciousness. You know what I'm saying? So that's you know what I mean. That's why we got right now four people in the in the in the chat, it's because it's not talking about you know the lessons or what have you. Um this is definitely uh a part of the podcast that I want to rebuild because we did have it before, but then we uh I mean as far as like music is concerned, we had it before and then and then we we kind of fell off on it. So we definitely want to have y'all back. So now um to close out, right? Um let's fast forward and talk about the artists that are out right now that we should check out be the wheater.

SPEAKER_02 56:59

Be the weater. Shady Nate, shady, uh lyrics, yeah, shady, um that's all next to Ken. We're still still doing it, we're still in it. Man, three Chris the fifth, which is uh a hell of a lyricist.

SPEAKER_04 57:22

Yeah, that's my boy Cred. Yeah, Craig, Cred up there, man.

SPEAKER_02 57:26

You know what I mean? Uh Delinquents, um you got a man, a Pilcy Ridge. Um Gully. Well, uh Young Gully, too. Oh, Gully, man, yeah. Like if y'all look for that that type of lyrics and stuff, uh uh lyrics and stuff, Young Gully, Shady Mate, check for them, guys, Mr. Fitz, Vita, like these guys can rap. Really rap. They can do what they can do a lot.

SPEAKER_05 57:58

All right. Now, now, real quick before we close out, this is uh this is uh in New York, right? The culture right now is is a melting pot as usual, right? But back in the days it was more like five percent and all that, and then in the 90s, early mid 90s and above, it it became like a blood state, really. Like, and it still kind of is like it's blooded out this whole this whole state, right? But now, but now we got we got we got genies, we got we got all kinds of gang out here now. So in in uh in Oakland, where's the culture now? Confused.

Artists To Watch And Culture Today

SPEAKER_05 58:35

Yeah, we uh same thing like New York.

SPEAKER_04 58:38

Yeah, we we uh we adopted something that we should have never adopted. What was this whole honestly, I'm gonna I'm not even gonna, I was gonna say initially, I was gonna say drill culture, but I'm gonna take it back further than that. I'm gonna take it back to when we started adopting down south culture and we lost our identity. When the Hot Boys came out and juvenile and all them came out, everybody started talking about niggas from the Nolya and all other typical type stuff, and I think that opened up the door for us to lose our originality and and our foothold and why everybody was taking our material. Like why DJ Mustard got the sound he that he got. Like DJ Mustard got his sound, peace be upon him, from my boy Hawk. He passed away some some years ago, but that's where that sound came from. You know what I'm saying? So I it's kind of like when it comes to that idea of losing our identities, the same thing happened. It was an industry thing that happened. They was they emphasized on this drill culture and this this this uh, I guess, studio the prison pipeline.

SPEAKER_02 59:35

Me myself, I feel like it's the it boils down to the leadership. I think they quit they because of the threat of the Panthers, and they don't never want that to resurface because Oakland has a nucleus to bring a lot of people together. We we connected with Chicago, Detroit, like LA, like we got a nucleus that we can bring a lot of people together, and I think that they they they specifically target our leadership to keep it crippled because one thing you can uh if you talk to the youngsters, they I don't got no big homies, I don't follow nobody, this and that, we do this and this and that. That's because of the crippling of the leadership. They have a lot the leader, all our leaders and people like myself are forced to be for your own for your own safety to stay free, stay alive. You have to move away and and and reach back, you know what I'm saying? Which is which makes the situation weak. Like if I'm not there every day, I have a stronghold in my neighborhood, but if I'm not there, I've been gone 16 years. It's some it's there's a lot of people who come to start taking over that leadership and lead people astray and lead them to a wrong way. You have faulty leaders, then you end up looking looking for something. And what they do is they put fix get fixated on what's available and what's working, and and then they try to emulate that.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:56

Right, right. On that note, man, thank you, brothers, for coming out this evening. I really appreciate you share, comment, like, share, subscribe. Uh, and that's all I gotta say. Peace to everybody uh in the chat. Uh uh, you know, this person in the chat, peace to you. Um, and everybody have a good evening. And we are out of here.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:18

Thanks for having us. Thanks y'all for tuning in.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:25

Shalom shalom.