Why are African American's REALLY Moorish American's - Mauryell Smith El

“Black,” “African American,” “Moorish American” are not just words. They’re filters that decide what history you claim, what institutions you build, and how you understand power in the United States. We’re joined by Moriel Smith for a deep, fast-moving breakdown of Moorish American nationality through the Moorish Science Temple of America, Noble Drew Ali’s framing, and the idea that “Moor” functions less like a race and more like a civilizational identity.

We dig into why Morocco and the Moroccan Empire can’t be reduced to a single look or a single lineage, and how the Trans-Saharan trade connected Northwest Africa to the Sahel and West Africa through gold, scholarship, intermarriage, and governance. Mauryell explains why that network matters for people commonly called African American today, especially when DNA results point to multiple regions like Nigeria, Mali, Senegal, Ghana, Guinea, and Congo. We also talk about well-known examples of enslaved African Muslims in the Americas, and how West African Muslim polities and teachers shaped a wider historical web.

Then we tackle the uncomfortable part: the politics of naming. Mauryell argues “Black” begins as an administrative label in colonial law before it becomes culture and pride, and he explains why “African American” can feel too vague when Africa is a continent with radically different histories. We also clarify the difference between being Muslim and being Moorish American, address misconceptions that spread online, and close with how older skills and institutions echo through what people now call Black excellence and American culture.

If this conversation pushes your thinking, subscribe, share it with a friend, and leave a review so more people can find it. What question do you want answered in part two?

Transcript

We’re Back And Setting The Frame

SPEAKER_00 0:12

What's going on everybody and Roman Brand LMT Keep MC? Ronbrand LMC on the more. No more Roman Brand LMT and keep the game. I'm still used to say it's just Roman. We're just gonna go Roman for like now probably trying to stuff. Uh anyway, you guys gonna know me, we've been here for three years now. Uh coming up on August, we've been doing podcasting for three years, man. We're on our way to 8,000 subs on this platform. Uh uh, I would say by the end of the year we'll be 10,000 subs on a lot of on a few platforms by the end of the year. Um anyway, we've been here three years, and you know, we we we will continue to bring you know you guys good content. We took a little break, had to put things together the right way, and now we're back. We got the brother Moriel Smith in the building to talk about uh uh how are we African Americans or are we why are we African Americans African Americans? African Americans, really Moorish Americans. Pardon me, pardon me, y'all, pardon me, y'all. I I got some technical difficulties over here. I'm trying to get us live on on uh on um Instagram all in one shot at the same time. So let's talk about it. Let's go right into it. How are you doing, brother?

SPEAKER_01 1:41

Um, all is well, brother. Good to be back on the show. You know, first things first, you know, formalities. I rise and give perfect praise to Allah. Honest towards Prophet Noble Juali, the Harvinger Marcus Mosiah Garvey, um, the first Supreme Grand Sheikh at O'Neill, my Supreme Grand Sheik Keith Danders here. Just wanted to get that out the way. And yeah, uh grateful that you invited me back. Super excited to really get into this topic because like I've been really on this um for a minute now, like hammering home a lot of like gaps that's in within like you could say the zeitgeist of a lot of the information that we have in our community and

What “Moorish American” Means

SPEAKER_01 2:20

really trying to like share up and make it as plain as simple as plain as simple as possible to people who don't even know any of this information, right? Um, so super excited to dive into some things today.

SPEAKER_00 2:34

Indeed. So let's let's go right into it. All right, let me get my questions out here for you. All right, first off, I mean, let's just assume you're not talking to a Moorish American right now. Uh, so what is a Moorish American?

SPEAKER_01 2:52

Right, a Moorish American. So I would tell this person if you're not a Moorish American, I would let them know that you know, we as Moorish Americans, right? You know, it all starts with Noble Dwalee, starting the Moorish Science Temple of America in 1913, um, at its height between 1925 and 1929. And in uh the doctrine within the Moorish Science Temple of America, Noble Dwali states these things about us being a Moorish American. He states that why we are Moorish Americans is because we are the descendants of Moroccans and born in America. That's key 14 in the 101s, I believe. And then also in Acts 6 of the divine constitution and bylaws of the Moorish Trans Temple of America, he states that the Moorish Americans are descendants of the ancient Moabites who inhabited the northwestern and southwestern shores of Africa. Then he also states, last piece is that these Moabites who received permission from the pharaohs of Egypt to settle and inhabit Northwest and Southwest Africa, right? They came from the east, they came from the land of Moab and are now and were the true possessors of the present Moroccan Empire. So through these three pieces of information, we'll kind of break down all of those things. Um if you if you have another question, I can go further into these three, I guess, prongs of this conversation.

SPEAKER_00 4:23

Okay, let's let's just go into those three.

SPEAKER_01 4:25

All right, so right, we are descendants of Moroccans and born in America. First, we have to truly understand that Morocco, even as it is today, is a very diverse country. It's also not only diverse in people, but it's diverse in geography. You have the coastal areas, right, near the water, etc. Then you have the mountain regions of the Atlas Mountains, then you have the southern Sahara region that's closer to the desert, right? Now, um indigenous Moroccans who had dark skin, they are known as the Hating, the Herating, right? And they are indigenous to Morocco and the southern parts, as well as really understanding that the southern parts of Morocco was used as caravan cities that were connected to the west of West Africa through Trans-Saharan trade. So there are cities like Sidio Massa, cities like um Fez, etc., that were part of the Trans-Saharan trade, where people from all over West Africa, from modern-day Timbuktu, from Gao and Mali, um, Jin Ejinno in Mali, and other places throughout the uh Mande Sonic network that came through places in Morocco and intermarried with the people of Morocco. Right? That's one part. So understanding that the term Moroccans is a layered term that involves several different groups of people.

SPEAKER_00 6:06

I love that you said that, brother. Because say that one more time.

SPEAKER_01 6:10

Yes, the term Moroccan is a layered term that includes several groups of people. So when we say Moroccan people, and this is just you know the society that we live in, when we say Moroccan people, people usually think of the pale-skinned, lighter-skinned, Arab or European mixture that is the face of quote-unquote Morocco. But again, you have what they call Nawa communities in Morocco, which are uh basically an amalgamation of again several different West African groups that were brought to Morocco um during Trans Saharan during the Trans-Saharan trade. And then you also have indigenous dark-skinned Moroccans as well that play an important part in uh Moroccan society. Now, to take this point and move it to my next point and understanding that when the Prophet Nobu Juali says that these people that came from the land of Moab, came from the East, etc., were the founders and are the true possessors of the present Moroccan Empire. History shows us that you know the Berber people or Moorish people. Uh, when you look at the Greek text from Salaus, he talks about how the Moor people are a mixture of Hercules' army and the indigenous Libyans, right? Now, when we think about that, they said Hercules armies were Medes. Medes are basically it was a civilizational culture that was then what we call today the modern Middle East, that was very similar to Persia, Syria, etc. It was one of those, or it was one of those cultures that were a part of, again, these amalgamation and confederation of several different cultures that was happening in the Middle East, right? So then, with that being said, even within the traditions that are amongst the people in Morocco, Moorish people, the Maury, the Berbers, etc., you have these stories about people coming from the east, intermarrying and amalgamating with the people, the native people that was already there, and creating a new society. With that being said, you have within that society, within these Muslim groups, the people like the Berbers, the people like um Mende, Sonik in ancient Ghana, the Hausa, the Fulani, even the Udaba, they all have oral traditions or even some written traditions about coming from the east. So when Obu Dwali talks about again Moabites who came from the land of Moab, who then now inhabit northwest and southwest Africa, this is what he's talking about in real time is that there are groups in North and West Africa that claim descendancy from groups that came from the east. And now these groups that are now in the west that came from the east, these same groups were part of the different groups of Africans that were trafficked in the transatlantic slave trade, which then makes up the more recent uh you would say pool of our genealogy as Moorish Americans or you know, commonly known as African Americans today. So if anybody was to, you know, if anybody's gotten a DNA test before, those results are going to say you're X amount of percent from Nigeria, X amount of percent from Mali, X amount of percent from Senegal, um, from Guinea, Ghana, etc. What we have to understand is that prior to the Europeans uh basically you know starting the operation of the transatlantic slave trade, these different ethnic groups were already connected to trade, scholarship, intermarriage, knowledge and information passing, religious institutions, Sufi brotherhoods, etc. They were all there were already deep bonds between these people, even in pre-Islamic times. All right. So then now these same networks are just transferred over to the Americas.

Morocco’s Diversity And The Trade Routes

SPEAKER_00 10:52

Understood, understood, you hear me? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't know what happened. Understood, understood. Uh so what I'm trying to do is pardon me, brother. I'm trying to get you on our our Instagram at the same time while you're building. So I apologize, excuse the delay in response. Now, um, I want to go into how does the Moorish Science Temple define Moorish American? You broke really pretty much broke that down, but but uh uh you know just give more of a um definitely more of an explanation, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:27

And I'm glad you asked that question is because we need to understand that prior prior to um you know our modern era, that people identified themselves in different ways. They identified themselves like from the city and tribe that they were from, they identified themselves with their political affiliations, they identified themselves with their religious affiliations, etc. So just doing the knowledge on the history of the term more and who has been applied to it, we have to say that the term more is really like a civilizational term, meaning that you know, even in the European records, the term more was applied to several different people. Of course, the Andalusians, the people of southern uh Iberia and Spain and Portugal, modern-day Spain and Portugal, North Africans, West Africans, Jews at some point in time, uh Sephardic Jews at some point in time were all considered to be, you know, Moorish people or part of Moorish civilization. So when we look at the term Moore, we have to truly understand it from a civilizational term, meaning that it's an overarching term that the cultures in North and West Africa have shared uh institutions that made these kingdoms and empires from these areas as prominent as they were. For example, the Almodavid, the Amaha dynasty, the uh Marinid dynasty, the Watassid dynasty, the Alawat or the Saadian dynasty, etc., these dynasties of Morocco were very dependent or interdependent on gold that was coming from the Mali, the Songai, or ancient Ghana Empire. Right? So here we have it is that the riches of these Moroccan empires and dynasties were coming from the gold trade that was coming from empires and kingdoms further south. So that lets you know that again there was an interrelated dynamic. Same thing, knowledge and information that was coming from Morocco also went south. Things like textiles, things like horses, things like salt, they went south, and things like gold, uh, leather work, ironwork, people, they went north. So again, you have an exchange between Northwest and Southwest Africa that made these people interconnected, which is why the term more will be best suited as a civilizational term.

SPEAKER_00 14:08

Ah man, that is a bar right there. That's a that's a YouTube clip right there. Yeah, man. Yeah, let's drop a let's drop a bomb.

SPEAKER_01 14:23

And I think the two main, if I will, real quick, the two main uh ethnic groups that made this connection the strongest, it would be the Sinhaja group of Amazig or Berbers in the north, and the Sonic Mandae people going further south. So when we look at the most famous Moors dynasty that went into Spain, is called the in English or in Latin called the Almordavids, right? The Almordavid dynasty started around the Senegal River, so Sanhaja uh tribal confederation affiliates started around the Senegal River, which included another West African policy, which is the predecessor to Futa Toro, which was a Fulani uh Muslim state. So Tarkruis, Sanhajans, and other West Africans made up the Al-Mordavit confederation that went into Spain and reunified the Moorish kingdoms that was in Andalusia. So there is there that is direct evidence of West Africans being a part of the Moorsh dynasties that went up into Spain. And it was through these connections between the Sanhaja and the Sonic that also spread to the rest of West Africa because there were two brothers, they were actually family members. Uh uh Yusuf Ibn Tashman, who was uh later to be like honestly, he's probably I would say on my Mount Rushmore of Moorish emperors or leaders. Yusuf Ibn Tashman and his older, I believe, cousin or uncle, uh Umar Abu Bakr. What happened was Yusuf ibn Tashman went north to consolidate the rest of Morocco and the Iberian Peninsula. Umar Abu Bakr he went south and consolidated the southern parts of the empire, which again spread to the Senegal River. And then from the Senegal River, if you look at the geography, from the Senegal River, it gets you, you can take it inland close to the Niger River. And the Niger River is where Timbuktu, the capital of the Mali Empire, was that, and Gao, the capital of the Songhai Empire, was that. So prior to even another good thing about this is even prior to the Almoravid dynasty forming, Takor and Gao were already fully Muslim kingdoms as well. So West African kingdoms, Muslim kingdoms, Moorish kingdoms were already a thing prior to the most famous Moorish dynasty that ruled Spain.

SPEAKER_00 17:31

Wow, man. Drop a bomb on that. Hey man, can you explain? Not explain. Can you tell the people your age, man? I know that's I know that you're not supposed to do that, right? People don't like that. But I like people to know your age, though.

SPEAKER_01 17:46

Yes, sir. And I just turned 29 in April.

SPEAKER_00 17:50

Just turn 29. Come on, man. Come on, give it up for the brother, man. Even though he's not necessarily like a kid, right? But he's to me, he's the youth, man. He's the youth. He's coming up. So now uh let's talk about um why did Nobu Dwali encourage so-called black people to identify as you already pretty much explained why you know what? Let's uh yeah, you already explained that. Is Moorish American a nationality and ethnicity a religion, or all three?

SPEAKER_01 18:28

Nationality, ethnicity, or religion? Well, it's it's not a religion, but what I will say is in European sources, the term more was conflated with the term Musla, right? Right, and also remember the Al-Mortavit dynasty that I mentioned earlier. So in Latin, the term is Al-Mortavit, in Arabic, the term is Al-Morabitun, and it is from the term Al-Morabitun that you get the term Marabu, which was basically the the Sufis of West Africa, right? So from this dynasty, the most famous Moorish dynasty, Al-Morabitun or the Al-Moravits, you get the term Marabu, which is the which is the Muslim holy man that spread all over West Africa, right? So from from there alone, bringing I brought this point up to show that even though now in the modern sense, we wouldn't say being a Moorish American is a religious term, however, the term more in Islam is you know basically historically synonymous at this point, right? Right, then look it into ethnicity-wise. Uh, here's the thing about us when it comes to ethnicity. We are a mixture of several different ethnic groups. When you look at the history of the transatlantic slave trade, you have people that came from Pulani, uh, Mandingo, Akan, Yoruba, Igbu, Fon, which is where you get Vudun, etc. You have people coming from all of these different ethnic groups, people from Congo, people from Angola, all of these different ethnic groups. So we are a mixture of several different ethnic

Moors As A Civilizational Term

SPEAKER_01 20:15

groups. And that and that's been something that's been plaguing our people about finding our true identity prior to the internet and a lot of this information being pushed out, is that we don't descend from one tribe. So looking at it ethnically, that's why Moorish American is best as a nationality, because it is nations that have always put several different different ethnic groups under one political term. Yo, you just made it so simple and plain. And that and that's and that's my goal. And that's my goals. Because again, for us to understand this, this is why we here in America, right? Us Moorish Americans, right? We have the responsibility of putting the pieces of the puzzle together about North and Southwest Africa because we have all these ethnic groups within our DNA. Is that now we can objectively study the history and the connection of these different groups that they not of these different groups that they not even might even see in this modern day because of colonial history and things like that. So now our ability to say, hey, you know, there were some groups that were Muslim that were trafficked in the transatlantic slave trade. There were some groups that were aware of Muslims and interacted with Muslims on a day to day basis. And then there were some ethnic groups that weren't Muslim at all. However, right, there is evidence that now Igbu, Igbu Uku, which is an archaeological site in Nigeria of the Igbu people, that they have been trading with Gal in Mali since the ninth century.

unknown 21:59

Right?

SPEAKER_01 22:00

So we're talking about almost 1100 years ago. You also have evidence of Ile Ife, right? The original Yoruba Empire trading with Mali, Gal, etc., as early as a thousand years ago. So again, this is anywhere between five and six hundred years before any European was able to come and set up forts in West Africa. So there's always been this uh, I'm gonna say there's always been, but there's a long history of interaction between the groups that were trafficked in the transatlantic slave trade in West Africa, and I think I brought this up in one of your podcasts before, but plantation populations would have mirrored trade cities in West Africa, right? Trade cities would be the places where you would have multiple ethnic groups at plantation populations was where all these people from Senegal to Congo were forced to basically intermix with one another, right? So we will find that same again, ethnic diversity on a plantation that we will find in trade cities in West Africa, and that's why it's important to understand this the relation between these ethnic groups, because that's then can give us clues on how we were able to organize and rebel in the Americas. It also gives us clues to show that, hey, actually, you know, as a people, we really didn't necessarily invent anything new, we just took the fragments and the remnants of these different ethnic groups and made it suitable for the new environment that we were in. So all the aspects of the cultures today can be traced back to yesterday.

SPEAKER_00 24:04

Okay, so if you can give me an example of of uh ethnic groups that we mix with that we're mixed with, uh that'll be great, you know, for people to get more context.

SPEAKER_01 24:17

Definitely. So the main though, so when you look at when you start to do the history on ethnic groups traffic in the transatlantic slave trade, they usually call them the power five. The power five are Mande, Igbo, Yuduba, uh Akan, Mande Igbu, Yuduba, A Khan, and usually Fulani or Fon people. Again, people that came from the Home, which was which is where uh Vudun practices come from.

SPEAKER_00 24:54

Wait, wait, you kind of broke up.

SPEAKER_01 24:56

So the power five, main five uh ethnic groups that were trafficked specifically to the United States, not to all of the Americas, specifically to the United States Mande Akon, Igbo, um Mande Acon, Igbo, Yutaba, and then you also have the Fulani or the Fawn people, and then of course you also have the Congo people. The that fifth one could be any one of those three, depending on if you went to Louisiana, if you went to Florida, or if you were in the Carolinas. Also, if you came from a French trading post, a British trading post, or a Spanish trading post. All right, so different parts of these different uh ethnic groups made up these new world uh religious traditions like Candoble, like uh Santander, like uh uh uh Obea, Wanga, all of these different Vudun, Hoodoo, right? All of these different new age spiritual technologies that became a synchronize virgin because all of these different ethnic groups were now forced to be you know so close together, all of those elements can be pulled right back into direct evidence of these ethnic groups in West Africa. For example, the Yoruba people, right? Their religious traditions are all over Santa, all over Candobla, right? However, the Yoruba people were also Muslim, and that's known through like the Bahia revolts in Brazil, etc. So those elements of the Yoruba people are implanted in new age uh new Atlantic religious traditions that were popping up. Another thing, uh the Mandai people, uh, what they call gre-gri or mojo bags, right? These were bags that were sewn together for protection as amulets even on slave plantations. They found evidence of these Gri-Gree or Mojo bags used in Hoodoo, used in uh new uh Louisiana voodoo, etc., here in the Americas. And you know who was most famous for making these amulets in West Africa? The Sonic Wangarwa Jula trade uh diaspora, again, which was a huge part of the Moroccan Empire, so there's evidence that has been left in America that can trace us back to the main players of the ever-expanding Moroccan Empire.

SPEAKER_00 27:57

Got you. All right, now uh what is his what historical evidence is commonly uh cited to support the Moorish American identity?

SPEAKER_01 28:12

So that evidence again, kind of what we were talking about, is within the ethnic groups that we know were brought here. So, for example, you ever heard of the story of Omar ibn Sayyid, uh, who wrote basically a memoir of his life uh while he was enslaved, I believe, in Georgia. You also have uh the story of um, I think the brother's name is Ayyub bin Suleimane or Joe bin Solomon, who was known as a prince from Futa Toro that uh landed here, I believe in Maryland in the Virginia area and was founded out. You also have Ibrahim Sora, who came from Futa Jalon, um, who also was trafficked here, and they found out where he was from and called him a prince, and people like uh John Quincy Adams, etc.,

Nationality Versus Ethnicity Versus Religion

SPEAKER_01 29:10

uh fought on his behalf for him to go back to Africa. So there's been evidence of people that came from the Moorish Muslim sphere of activities found in the Americas. That's the main evidence that we can show. But to again to tie where these people came from, again, in places like Futa Jalong, places like Futa Toro, places like the Sokoto Caliphate, etc. These these different kingdoms were set up by what they call Torabe or Zawiya priests. These Torobe or Zawiya priests came from. Remember, I mentioned earlier the Sanhaja. Then Sanhaja was the main uh Berber confederation or Amazir confederation that made up the confederation of the Al-Mortavis or the Al-Morabitum, right? So these polities, these West African Muslim polities, all were interconnected through the teachers of the Torabe or the Zawiya Sanhajas. So these priests from the Sunhaja, from the Fulani, from uh Wolof, as well as certain Mande Sonic people created the the theocratical empires, the kingdoms of Afuta Toro that was in Senegal, Afuta Jalon that was in uh modern-day Guinea, um, a Sokoto Caliphate that covered most of northern Nigeria, Mali, Nigeria, etc. So all of the different West African kingdoms has a connection in the system that was a part of the Trans-Saharan trade network that basically the Moroccans reap the most benefit from because of their geographical location.

SPEAKER_00 31:03

Wow. Okay. Um, how do uh proponents distinguish between black, African, American, and Moorish American?

SPEAKER_01 31:21

How do proponents distinguish between black, African American, and Moorish American? Yeah. Uh well, it's understanding that again the term black is an identity that was targeted upon us, that was forced upon us, that deludes to slavery.

SPEAKER_00 31:39

Brother, can you explain that? This is the craziest, like you know, I was just talking to thanks, brother uh Ben. Uh, thank you for the five dollars. I really appreciate that, brother. I really appreciate that. You know, we don't we don't come on and ask for it, we don't beg, you know, but we definitely need it uh uh for the for the for the podcast because uh it takes money to run this thing. Anyway, um brother, it's like we're not saying that black is bad, like the word. We're not saying that. You get what I'm saying? Like people, when they hear you talk about this and how in its connection or not non-connection to nationality and birthright, they people lose it, yeah, because they don't they don't understand how rab uh how deep the rabbit hole goes on this subject, right? So um explain this, explain this for the people, please, brother.

SPEAKER_01 32:46

Yeah, so what what you're really talking about again, you're talking about a mindset, you're talking about standards of how we're able to view our identity and how our identity allows us to garner power in the society that we live in. So again, the term black came about as a term used by colonial governments, pre-united states, to administer a racial label on our people to separate them and class them, separate them from their history and class them on the lowest level in American society. And it was used, and it was used by, I believe, in the 1660s, it was first used on basically saying that um the law is not popping up in my head, but it's basically talking about how the if a European man were to basically impregnate an African woman, the child would assume the the mother uh genealogy aside, and that's and that's the first law used in Virginia that was put on the books to start to administer the black identity on our people. So again, it was a government administrative term first before it became this term of endearment that we have today. So because we don't know that history, you know, we don't see it from that perspective. Because again, we have been taught basically our whole existence in this modern day has been taught to react to European to the European power structure, right? For example, the biggest example of quote unquote black excellence is Black Wall Street, right? Why are we calling it Black Wall Street? Because it's intent, it's imitating a European institution, a quote-unquote white institution, right? But if we knew who we were, we wouldn't call it Black Wall Street, we would call it something like you know, if we understood our history, it would be the the the the the the Sonic trade network or the transinherent trade network or the Camel Express, you see what I'm saying? Something that relates us back to our history instead of putting our spin on European institutions, and that's the thing that we have to that's the hump that we have to get over in trying to explain this to our people is that what's happening now is that we're just putting black on things the European institutions, the Europeans have made, which doesn't really which keeps us again in their definition of how they view us and us not creating our own definitions of how we view the world, right? Right, and that's why our history is so important, is that our history gives us our worldview in real time and gives us examples to take in the present and use for the future in real time. But if we only take those examples of us under oppression, under rebellion, we never fully get the information of what it's like to rule and be independent as a nation, right? Because now we worried about being infiltrated and all these things, and I said this before you're not a nation if you don't have to worry about another nation trying to impose itself upon you. All nations have to deal with that, right? All nations have to deal with that. China just found out that one of their top officials was a spy, and they're the one, two biggest country in the world. So you're not a nation if you're not dealing with these things. But if we don't understand that historical track record, to know that you know things like espionage and spying has been going on since ancient Egyptian times. That's why understanding this history will allow us, okay, here's the playbook, here's what we need to do. You need to be here, you need to be there. This is how we're gonna be organized, this is how everything's gonna flow, this is how we're gonna govern ourselves, etc. Government from a Morish American perspective is only for uplifting of our people because America runs by who's gonna be the most organized, not just

How “Black” Became An Admin Label

SPEAKER_01 37:05

money, but organized money, not just power, but organized power.

SPEAKER_00 37:12

Right, indeed, indeed. That's why family is extremely important, indeed.

SPEAKER_01 37:18

It's the backbone of all of that. You don't have strong families, you can't have strong neighborhoods, you can't have strong cities, etc. That's why everything, you know, family, and the thing is the people that hold families together are the people in the family that's not related, the mother and the father, the husband and the wife, the husband and the wife, the mother and father come together to create a family, right? And then that speaks to the character of the man and the woman in the relationship, and that's why you see the degeneracy amongst our people today, because the deteriorate the deterioration of the man and the woman in our culture and society has made it so that you know we can't work with one another.

SPEAKER_00 38:03

That's a fact, that's a fact. All right, now let's go into the next one. What role does nationality nationality play in Moorish science teachings? I mean, nationality is always the order of the day, you know. But you know, I'll let you explain it.

SPEAKER_01 38:20

Yeah, the role, repeat the question again.

SPEAKER_00 38:24

Uh, what role does nationality play in Moorish science teachings?

SPEAKER_01 38:29

The role that nationality plays in Moorish science teaching is this. You familiar with uh Professor Amos Wilson? Of course, right? Professor Amos Wilson, he talked about how, like, you know, you're not basically your identity, your nationality, your race, etc., is the social political filter for which how you build upon institutions. So just because this college doesn't say white college, or this economic class don't say white economics, don't mean that these classes and these colleges aren't coming from the social political frameworks that European people use. So we must have our own frameworks to build our own institutions, and that's why nationality is so important, is because our history is giving us the keys to our future now. It's giving us the keys on how we should create an economy, it's giving us the keys on how we should better our families, it's giving us the keys on how we should conduct business, how we can be innovative in agriculture, innovative in medicine, innovative in architecture, etc.

SPEAKER_00 39:42

All right. Uh, what is the term, why is the term African American viewed differently by many Moorish Americans?

SPEAKER_01 39:52

I think the term African American is viewed differently by many more many Moorish Americans. It's really understanding that Africa is a continent and that there are several different countries within Africa. I mean, up into probably the last 20 years, right, you had people thinking that they were from places, you know, Zulu warriors and things like that. But South Africans weren't a part of the transatlantic slave trade. They showed us places like Kenya and even like the whole Swahili movement, even though, right, there's some great things to learn from it. But majority of the people that were trafficked to the Americas during the transatlantic slave trade were from West and Central Africa. So, first we have to start in West and Central Africa to truly understand our identity because the the cultures and the nations that are in West and Central Africa are very different or have a very variety and differences from places in North, East or South Africa. So that's first things first is that we have to clear the ambiguity because the more we stay in a state of ambiguity, the more it allows other people to define who we are. See, Morse American gets us directly to a point of origin, right? Again, we come from several different ethnic groups, but it is through the Moroccan Empire, it is through the Trans-Saharan network that these different ethnic groups and cultures mingled amongst each other and even govern diverse people. That's another thing that we have to understand is that, right, you hear this thing today about like how we're not a monolith, but people basically use that term to keep us divided when really it's great that we're not a monolith and that learning of history will understand that we've always been able to govern a diverse group of people. Look at Songhai, look at Mali, look at the Almoravids, look at the Almohades, etc.

SPEAKER_00 41:53

All right, check, check, check. All right. Uh, how does the transatlantic slave trade fit into the Moorish American narrative, even though you explained this earlier in the podcast? Let's just go over that again for people who just come came in.

SPEAKER_01 42:10

Yeah, the the the trans the transatlantic slave trade presents the most modern the most modern addition to the genealogical pool of who we are as Morris Americans today. Because again, we also understand that you know that we contend and understand that we were here prior to Columbus. However, what has happened recently since the say the 1700s on is plays a huge factor in a lot of the aspects of our cultures and traditions today, and that's another thing we have to understand is from the four late 1400s on, different groups of people came in different ways, and that the people that came after just added on to what was already there. So we must understand that the Spanish and the Portuguese being the first Europeans to basically colonize the Americas, they were the closest to Moorish culture. So on both sides, whether we're looking at Spanish and Portuguese culture and how they set up their mission system here in the Americas and their cultures and traditions, a lot of their institutions were Moorish, in fact. Then now, once they start to now add people further south in West Africa, they didn't now add on to that Moorish component that's already there. Then you get other West African Muslims that also adds on to that component that's already there. Then you now get the West of West Africans, people from Congo, people from again Yoruba, Igbo, places in the 1700s that adds on more to uh Basically, the character that was being developed here in the Americas from all of these mixed ethnic groups.

SPEAKER_00 44:09

Right. All right. Now, um, uh, we have a question in the chat. Uh, are the Americans really West Africa? Are the Americas really West Africa? There is much empirical evidence to show a Moorish presence before 1482. Sorry, y'all.

SPEAKER_01 44:33

Um, here's what I'll say today. Here's what I'll say today. Uh we know that, for example, the Atlas Mountains and the Atlas Mountains in Morocco is the same mountain chain as the Appalachian Mountains in Southeast, right? Appalachian Mountains or Appalachian Mountains in like Virginia, the Carolinas, I think going into Tennessee, etc., right? That's the same mountain range. Also, the Congo River was was connected to the Amazon River.

Why “African American” Feels Too Vague

SPEAKER_01 45:05

The Niger River is also connected to the I think they called it the Poreba River, also in northern, northwestern, or yeah, northwestern Brazil as well. So geographically, right, the land masses are still connected. So, and that's the thing about again, the history that Noble Drew Ali gives us when he talks about how again the river Niger extended eastward from the Nile, westward across the Great Atlantic, and it was dredged to trade with the surrounding kingdoms. Again, showing you that there was a relation between these people again prior to you know European colonial attempts.

SPEAKER_00 45:52

All right, all right. Okay, let's go to the next one. Are all people of African descent considered Moorish Americans?

SPEAKER_01 46:09

All people of African descent in America. In America. So are you saying like recent immigrants as well?

SPEAKER_00 46:17

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 46:18

Uh when we got again, so right, when we start to look at the pre-colonial connections between these modern-day countries, right? So ancient Ghana was, you know, the Ashante Kingdom, Gaia Man, Salaga, not ancient Ghana, but like the modern day country Ghana. Prior to it being named Ghana, it was the territory of the Ashante, uh, Gayaman, uh Salaga, um, Bonamaso, all of these places. Nigeria, prior to it being named Nigeria, you had, of course, Ila Ife, you had the Arab Confederacy of the Iku, you had the Hausa kingdoms in the northern part of Nigeria, right? Mali was the Mali Empire, Niger was part of the Songhai Empire, Guinea was part of Futa Jalong and the Mali Empire, Senegal was a part of the Jolof Empire, etc. Right? So all of these modern day countries came about from older empires, and these older empires were not isolated places, they interacted with one another. People traveled, people intermarried, people taught other people, Muslim or non-Muslim. Um, there were trade going on, there was exchange of goods, all of these different things. So when we look at it from a pure ethnic point, we're not saying all of these Africans are one group, but when we look at from a civilizational operating point, we can say that all of these people are connected to Moorish civilization.

SPEAKER_00 47:53

There we go. There we go. Great answer, great answer. All right, now, uh, what is the difference between being a Muslim and being a Moorish American?

SPEAKER_01 48:10

The difference between being a Muslim and a Moorish American. I'm just gonna go off basically again, kind of what I think the vibe would have asked in that question. We have to understand that when Noble Drew Ali came starting in 1913, with establishing the Moorish Temple of America, his transition into 1929. Islam was going through a change that is never that has never happened in the history of Islam. The Ottoman Empire was falling and fell, and there was no longer a caliph. This is the first time in the history of the Muslim world that there wasn't a caliph, a caliphate, right? So, with that being said, a lot of the words that Nobu Juwali used, right? He's bringing a true and divine form of Islam, right? And that we're Muslims, and that he even viewed people that weren't conventionally known as Muslims to be Muslims, right? So with that being said, the difference between being a Moorish American and being what we call a Muslim today is that we have again a more you could say Sufic approach than Orthodox Muslims. We have a more connected religious approach, again, because we honor all true and divine prophets. Even there's Muslims today. No, my wife grew up Sunni Muslim, right? And she talked about how, like, growing up Sunni Muslim, like they were taught to hate Jesus. See what I'm saying? So it's like there's aspects of what we consider today to be, you know, being a Muslim or being an Orthodox Muslim that aren't that are actually contrary to what the Quran

Transatlantic Slavery And Genealogy

SPEAKER_01 49:55

says, and that we as Moorish Americans are trying to stick as much to the Quran as possible, because our prophet himself said that uh, you know, these are these this is the word of God. So when you hear things in the Quran about make no distinction amongst the prophets, right? When you hear things like, you know, uh, we we made you into nations so you all can know one another, the prophet looked at things from a holistic point of view, and we should look at things from a holistic point of view, meaning that we shouldn't necessarily try to categorize like how our modern world does, because our modern world categorizes things based off the legacy of race caste systems. We'll we are quick to divide and differentiate without looking at the similarities, right?

SPEAKER_00 50:52

Check all right. Um, how do uh historians outside of Moorish science tradition view these claims? Now that's a big one, right there.

SPEAKER_01 51:03

That's a big one, yeah. Historians, and I and I love this question because I'm gonna break this down. Historians will try to view some of the claims, historical claims that Nobu Dwali brought forth and that members of the temple push out as basically sometimes baseless, right? So, for example, you may not be able to find direct evidence uh, let's just say a Moabite king in Morocco currently. However, if you were to break things down into layers, we do know that Carthage, which can't which people came from Tyre and the south in the eastern coast of the Mediterranean Sea, who came from these areas, came and colonized Northwest Africa, set up colonies, set up trade ports, trade cities, etc., in Northwest Africa, and that these Carthaginian people, right, extended networks as far south as the Senegal and Niger River. So, with that being said, now we can say, now we can say and also know that as I was saying earlier, the geography, you have the coastal areas of North Africa, then you have the Atlas Mountain Range, and then you get into the Sahara, and then you get into the Sahel portion of West Africa, and then from the Sahel, you get into the forest regions of West Africa. The forest region people are related to the Sahel people, but not necessarily related to the Saharan people. But the Sahel people are related to the Saharan people, but the Sahel people may not be directly related to the coastal people of North Africa, but the coastal people of North Africa are related to the Saharan people of the desert. So you know what I'm saying? They're layered nodes, so you have to study the history in layers, and you will see the connections. So that's why really scholars don't want us to make over-generalized statements, they

Pre-1482 Claims And Geography Arguments

SPEAKER_01 53:10

want you to make specific, nuanced statements. So that's what we really have to say, because they can't defeat that. The relationship between North West Africans and Southwest Africans is a layered relationship by zone through trade and exchange and scholarship.

SPEAKER_00 53:36

All right. Now, what misconceptions do people have? Do people commonly have about Moorish Americans? Oh man.

SPEAKER_01 53:49

It's a lot. Yeah, that's a whole that's a show that is so about the misconceptions. And honestly, a lot 95% of the misconceptions are people come from people who claim to have a Moorish identity. Uh so with that being said, I would just say again, the biggest stick with the prophet. The prophet did not want us to be a standoffish, radicalized people that's talking about other different groups, organized groups of people on social media in a reckless way. Nobu Drew Ali wanted us to be servants of humanity. Nobu Drew Ali wanted us to be upstanding, outstanding men and women. Nobu Drew Ali wanted us to be industrious men and women. Nobu Drew Ali said that our ancestors spread the most progressive ideas of civilization. So when he talked about us being a pure and clean nation, it is aspects like those that we should be carrying out. Anything that is uh of you know basically trying to cause confusion or overthrow the government, any verbiage like that is not what Moorish Americans are about. Any verbiage like us being putting ourselves on a pedestal and putting us against whether it's other native people, whether it's against other Muslims, whether it's against other Africans or people in a diaspora or other Asiatic people. The prophet never wanted us to be divisive, but to be inclusive, and that's why he said, take your nationality and put yourself back amongst the family of nations because the nations out of the world are families, they're related.

SPEAKER_00 55:43

Indeed, indeed. Uh, one more question. Uh, how has Moorish identity influenced black history and culture

Muslim And Moorish Are Not The Same

SPEAKER_00 55:55

in America?

SPEAKER_01 55:57

How has Moorish identity influenced black history and culture in America? This could this could be a long-winded sentence, but what I would say is what we have to understand is our people were not I hate this term when we say the slaves, right? I do I strongly dislike when we say the slaves. Our people were not just slaves, our people were lawyers, our people were blacksmiths, our people were traders, they were architects, they were carpenters, they were masons, they were farmers, they were gardeners, they were all the people in all the different industries that it takes to make a nation flourish. So when you see these innovations during the time of slavery and under oppression of us creating things like the cotton gin, and you know why we produce so much cotton, so much indigo, so much rice, so much sugarcane, is because we taught these techniques already to Europeans in Spain, in France, in England, in Sweden, not Sweden, in Switzerland, in Germany, etc. So, first things first, we have to understand is that the legacy of these European countries is born out of Moorish institutions and knowledge that we spread and share with them through trade. Then also understanding that the people that were trafficked here were highly skilled at what they did, which then now creates the backdrop of what we call today quote unquote black excellence. So we must understand that it's not we are not just a magical talented people out of the blue, we have a long track record history of being excellent in very different in a very in very diverse group of industries. We must understand that. So those things is what makes the culture of today. Now, when people talk about the culture, right, they're talking about right, hip-hop, rap, dance, all these different things. We already know that Grio culture in Senegal and Mali is basically the origin of basically spin poetry over percussion beats in string instruments. So blues, jazz, it's already been so much evidence that again string instruments came mostly from the area where Muslim was at. Things

Misconceptions And How Culture Carries History

SPEAKER_01 58:35

like the banjo, a version of the banjos used in Mali, etc. Right? So all of the all of the main, the main uh attributes of what we call the culture today, blues, jazz, hip-hop, RB didn't just sprout up out of nowhere, it was again built upon the predecessors and the layers and the foundations that came again from this interconnected civilization that was in West Africa.

SPEAKER_00 59:06

All right, all right, all right. On that note, brother, that was a good build. I want to continue this same build. We can do the same build next week. Yes, sir. Same build continuation. Uh why are African Americans really moreish Americans? Part two. We'll continue this next week. If you want to uh give people your your social medias where they can find you, definitely real quick.

SPEAKER_01 59:36

Boom. So, you know, sources, right? First off, this is my book, The Missing Piece of the Puzzle.

SPEAKER_00 59:43

I can't see it.

SPEAKER_01 59:44

Here we go. Let me see if I bring it back some. Uh okay. The missing piece of the puzzle, uh an unbroken history of the past and prophecies of the future for Moorish Americans. So it's not only a history book, but it's also uh a future book as well. But the whole goal of this book is to present an unbroken historical timeline of who we are as a people. So again, there's no gaps in you trying to trace your story back to the beginning. But also a few other books that I have that people can get. Uh Black Crescent by Michael Gomez is a good book that everybody should, I don't know. Here we go. That everybody should have in their library. Uh, Black Crescent, the experience and legacy of African Muslims in the Americas. Michael Gomez has a lot of uh good work. He has another good book called African Dominions. Check him out. Um, Jane Landers, I love Jane Landers and all the books that she has. This book is called Atlantic Creos and the Age of Revolutions. Get any book by Jane Landers, she has a lot of great options, but she talked about again how in this book how our ancestors would use conflicts that European nations have with each other for freedom and state building.

Part Two Tease And Book Recommendations

SPEAKER_01 1:01:00

Uh Robin Walker, another one of my favorite authors and scholars, he has a book called Everyday Life in Early West African Empire. Um, it has the afterword by the late great Renoco Rashidi, another book that you can get as well. Um, hit me up. I got other book recommendations for people. But these are some of the books that I use to uh you know garner all the information that you know I just got in my mind.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:26

Indeed, indeed. On that note, thank you for coming out this evening. We really greatly appreciate you, brother. And we will see you next week. Peace to the chat, everyone watching, and everyone who will watch, and those who are listening, and we are out of here.