Bringing the Work to Life with Bro. Salman Arif

What does it actually mean to be good at Masonic ritual? Bro. Salman Arif of Duke of Connaught Lodge turns the microphone around for a second time, with a page of written questions and one theme: the Work. Troy, newly installed as District Deputy Grand Master, takes them one at a time, and argues that getting the words right is only the barest minimum of what makes Masonry amazing.

Salman starts with the word itself. Why call it work? Troy separates the capital W Great Work of the spiritual aspirant from the ritual work of a lodge, estimates roughly 200 man-hours to confer a single degree once every part is shared across the officers, and explains why antiquarian words like inculcate and delineate end up infecting the way a Mason thinks. From there to the magic that works whether you want it to or not, Lon Milo DuQuette's line that even a terrible man who gets through the door comes out a much less terrible one, and Ike Baker's EFC presentation on the call and answer teaching method found in Egyptian training texts. Salman offers a phrase Troy runs with: not a diminishing echo, but an evolving one.

Then the core question. What separates good ritual from ritual that is merely correct? Troy has watched plenty of word perfect delivery rattled off with no inflection, and would rather a brother missed half the words and felt the half he said. He talks about the way he brings a candidate to light, the actor's trick of saying one line every possible way, the twelve minute Entered Apprentice tracing board in the Canadian work, and the night Bro. Lawrence Putnam delivered it and made it Troy's favourite piece. Along the way: cipher books, the jurisdictions where the ritual is still passed only mouth to ear, and what mentorship loses when a brother can learn alone.

A long and very Troy detour follows: TikTok versus The King and I, the Leone westerns he has never seen, Thunderball, every James Bond, Star Wars, and a plea to go and talk to real people. Then back to the work. Salman asks how much of Troy's esoteric practice comes into lodge, and Troy describes ritual as performing a prayer rather than reciting one, symbols treated as if they are alive, and the different perspective that each chair around the lodge gives on the same ceremony.

The chicken and the egg: memorize first, or internalize first? It depends on the time you have. Troy explains how to get the gist and deliver with confidence when you are handed an installation at the last minute, why you should record a piece in your own voice and play it while you sleep, and why, if you have six weeks, you start not now but right now. Then memory palaces, the lodge as the ideal palace, the archetypal temple not made with hands, and Jiddu Krishnamurti on being well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

Troy also tells the story behind his new approach. A hypoxic brain injury last year took a toll on his memory, and after a disastrous performance this spring he stopped learning by brute force and started using Kim March's The Five Minute Ritualist. He plans a monthly Zoom class on it starting in November, plus a tarot and Qabalah class, and the bonus round takes in Krishnamurti, Alan Watts, Joseph Campbell, a conversion at twelve, and a reconciliation with a former employer.

Coming up with Troy

October 9: District Deputy Grand Master visit, Mount Garibaldi Lodge October 17: Funeral in the morning and a Fellowcraft degree at noon, Mount Elphinstone Lodge, Roberts Creek October 27: Obligating Entered Apprentice candidates, North Shore Lodge No. 93 October 28: Freedom of Conscience, a new presentation, Capilano Lodge November: The Five Minute Ritualist classes begin on Zoom. Sign up for the newsletter at mystictye.com for details. November 28: A showing of Join or Die, open to seekers, at the Agnes Street Temple, New Westminster Esotericism in Freemasonry Conference 2027: speaker applications and advance tickets at esotericmasonry.com

Books mentioned in this episode

The Five Minute Ritualist, Kim March Giordano Bruno and the Hermetic Tradition, Frances Yates The Key of It All, Book One: The Eastern Mysteries, David Allen Hulse The Key of It All, Book Two: The Western Mysteries, David Allen Hulse Bowling Alone, Robert D. Putnam

Also mentioned

Join or Die, the documentary on Robert D. Putnam John Stuart Mill, Troy's current reading for Freedom of Conscience W. L. Wilmshurst, Ike Baker, Jiddu Krishnamurti, Alan Watts, Joseph Campbell

Links and resources

• Esotericism in Freemasonry Conference: masonicconferences.com
• RSVP for the upcoming conference: esotericmasonry@gmail.com
• Mystic Tye website and event calendar: mystictye.com
• Patreon (early episodes, extended cuts, artwork, extras): patreon.com/mystictye

Support the show

If this episode resonated with you, the most helpful thing you can do is leave a review on your favorite podcast platform. We are also building a directory of Freemasonic events and publications. If you know of something coming up, send Troy an email at troy@mystictye.com.

Graphics and web hosting by Art Szabo Creative. Theme music by Organist.

Happy to meet, sorry to part, happy to meet again.

Transcript

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​[00:00:00] 

Troy Spreeuw: Welcome to The Mystic Tye, a podcast for Freemasons. I am your host, Troy Spruw. You can find us online at mystictye.com. Email me feedback, guest suggestions, and any other questions at troy@mystictye.com. You can find us on Patreon at patreon.com/mystictye What does it actually mean to be good at Masonic ritual?

Troy Spreeuw: For me, ritual has never been simply about memorizing words and delivering them without making a mistake. The words matter, but so do [00:01:00] understanding, intention, and performance. Good rituals should communicate something. Great ritual should make the candidate, the brethren, and even the ritualist himself experience something In this episode of The Mystic Tye, Brother Salman Arif turns the microphone around and talks with me about my approach to ritual work.

Troy Spreeuw: We explore the difference between reciting and performance ritual and the importance of understanding its symbolism and how pacing, emphasis, and presence can transform familiar words into genuine initiatory experience. We also get practical, looking at how I learn ritual through visualization, the classical art of memory palace techniques, and Brother Kim March's The Five-Minute Ritualist, because memorizing the words is only the beginning.

Troy Spreeuw: The real work is bringing them to life Please welcome Brother Salman [00:02:00] Arif

Troy Spreeuw: Thanks for for asking me back, Salman. We did a Q&A a few weeks ago before EFC, 'cause you said I n- I never make myself available for questions or I don't make myself available, as I should.

Troy Spreeuw: So this is me making myself available and we set a theme today. Y- and you authored some questions. You've got some questions for me. Why don't you go ahead? 

Salman Arif: We're talking about different things today, and a few questions came to mind. I wrote them down, so you'll excuse me if I look down to go through them 'cause there's a few. But one of the questions that came up in my mind was when you talk about ritual work do you actually mean by the word work?

Salman Arif: What is the actual effort and what is the, the protocol to that?

Troy Spreeuw: It, we use, the, the Freemasons often use terms around labor and work stuff that craftsmen or workmen might use. Yeah, the Masonic labor, [00:03:00] right? The work of the craft. And so oftentimes I will capitalize Work, and when I do that, I'm referring to the Great Work.

Troy Spreeuw: That's the type of work that a, an aspirant, a spiritual aspirant will attempt, the magnum opus, the summum bonum,

Salman Arif: Opus

Troy Spreeuw: the Great Work. But when I refer to Masonic work, that's often ritual work, but it isn't always ritual work. It can be all types of Freemasonry. But but the, conferring degrees, which is the correct terminology for per- performing the dramas of the three degrees that we do in regular craft Freemasonry,

Salman Arif: Lodge. Sure

Troy Spreeuw: In a lodge environment, it is work.

Troy Spreeuw: I've said, and I don't have any statistics to back this up, I'm just like, "Oh, this is about right," about 200 man-hours per degree, I would say. Once you split up [00:04:00] all the different parts across all the different officers and the, the parts at the opening and closing, and then or the opening, and then the, the, the reception of the candidate in the certain way that it's done, and then the d- different steps in the degree.

Troy Spreeuw: And there are similarities, but each degree has its own character and flavor.

Troy Spreeuw: And all of those components, and all of their several parts, are typically shared across the lodge or across even the district or jurisdiction by other guys that are known for doing the particular lectures or the particular components of the degree.

Troy Spreeuw: And I say it's work because it is work. It's a lot of effort, and you really have to, y- you really have to love it, first of all to even apply yourself to it because oftentimes there is antiquarian language that makes the craft stand out. It isn't written in modern [00:05:00] language.

Troy Spreeuw: It sounds a little bit older. Often we're using words that aren't used. The, the famous example I often use is inculcate. If you hear somebody in the outside world just throwing around the word inculcate, It's a pretty good chance that the person is familiar with Masonic ritual because it's an important word to Freemasons, right?

Troy Spreeuw: And there's lots of different

Salman Arif: Made it

Troy Spreeuw: words that aren't often used in regular parlance. So I refer to it as work because, first of all, it's something to be taken seriously, and it's something you have to apply yourself to, right? And-

Salman Arif: no, I'm... I just had a comment there. I remember you telling me, just in the last session we had here, but also in person, where, the magic works whether you believe in it or not, right?

Troy Spreeuw: Sure

Salman Arif: Yeah ... to a very strong extent, if the person delivering that ritual doesn't believe it internally himself, how much do you feel that [00:06:00] would affect the actual, carry-forward of that effect to the initiate?

Troy Spreeuw: I've, I often say, and I could be quoted the magic works whether you want it to or not. Delivering, having the, a, a ritual conferred on you as the candidate, whether you're by yourself or with a small cohort the magic that's being intended by that, there are changes wrought in the candidate.

Troy Spreeuw: These initiatory rituals they... And we call it magic, but in that it's the famous definition of magic, causing change and conformity with will. But even that, it's, y- you're overthinking it. There's an intent to being, to delivering these, these three degrees, the initiation of the Entered Apprentice, the passing to the Fellowcraft degree, and the raising to the Sublime degree of a Master Mason.

Troy Spreeuw: There is a a, an intent, [00:07:00] an arc that will wrought the change in a man to make him a better man. And even if he's not that good a man, he'll still be... Lon Duquette reminded me, we were talking the other day, he w- he, even if he's a terrible person

Salman Arif: I remember 

Troy Spreeuw: and somehow gets through our door, he'll still be a much less terrible person

Salman Arif: Yes.

Troy Spreeuw: because he's had the degrees.

Troy Spreeuw: And I believe it, part of it is the, the, the contemplative nature of the work we deliver. We cover a lot of philosophy and traditional instruction, and we do it in a method that even though Ike Baker presented on this at the EFC it's been shown in Egyptian trade texts, like training texts, that the method of conferring information or transferring information from the masters to the students was done in this sort of call and answer, catechismic way that's [00:08:00] very reminiscent of the Masonic work we do.

Troy Spreeuw: So even if there is no, and I don't care Ike and I agree on this, and he quotes Wilmshurst as saying, "It doesn't matter that there's no historical, direct historical connection to the Egyptians or what came before." Th- there is a methodology to these, the way the degrees are working on a candidate.

Troy Spreeuw: I gotta lower my camera a little bit here just 'cause I think you're seeing too much of my fore- my sparsely covered forehead. So we're just gonna lower this down a little bit

Salman Arif: Mine's an illusion, so

Troy Spreeuw: Yes. Oh yeah, okay. But then what was I saying? So there's no direct historical relationship

Troy Spreeuw: Schools or their initiatic rites for each of their different trades programs, and that's, how it's done.

Troy Spreeuw: We use the imagery and the allegory of a trade, a builder's guild, a Freemason's guild, a mason's guild. But the methodology would've been recognizable, and when you look back on those texts, it's [00:09:00] like that's remarkably similar

Troy Spreeuw: How these degrees are constructed. And I would argue that it is either, and neither is provable, so I can just say it out loud and we can just pretend it's true even if it doesn't... it sou- the truthiness of it's very high, so we'll pretend it's true. The either the collective unconscious, y- we remember this through the collective unconscious that this is a good way to teach, and maybe that's why it's specifically for men.

Troy Spreeuw: Maybe it works better for men because we socialize differently. Maybe not. Maybe it's got nothing to do with gender at all. But it could also be some sort of outside force outside of the collective unconscious sort of making us do this over and over because that's how it likes to either be worshiped or effect change, spiritual forces behind it.

Troy Spreeuw: Or it could just be that humans are very curious and find the most efficacious way to do things by pure [00:10:00] dumb luck, trial and error over and over. There's only so many ways to do things, and we keep rediscovering these ways over and over. The s- the same way that crabs have evolved 10 separate times throughout throughout history, right?

Troy Spreeuw: It just... Because society makes it evolve this way, and that's 100%

Salman Arif: it so fast though. I feel there's something poetic about what you just said.

Salman Arif: Instead of a diminishing echo, it's more of an evolving echo, and it

Salman Arif: co- it goes, updates with the times, but it tends to be of the same stuff single time, right? And I feel like this is masonry and you mentioned something about archaic language, and I feel like language has diminished in its role over time because it's just so easy to communicate nowadays.

Salman Arif: Whereas before, when you sent a letter, for example, you had to really put some thought into it 'cause it would take maybe a couple of months to reach the person who's reading it, and it needs to portray that message in its purest form. the archaic language that we use as well kinda makes sense to me [00:11:00] in that way, that it's not just about being snobbish or something.

Salman Arif: There is an element of that I'll admit, but there's also a, the vast majority of that is actually these words, like inculcate, used commonly i- in our daily speech. They carry much deeper meaning than, oh, even bestow would not be strong enough. Even, understand or

Salman Arif: We use nowadays, oh, retain, right?

Salman Arif: That's the word. It's just not the same thing, and 

Troy Spreeuw: d-d-d-delineate is another... you'll hear me use the term delimit and delim- delineate in my language. Part of what's done as part of this work is that you've learned so much of this stuff f- by heart it infects your thinking processes, and this is another way the magic works whether you want it to or not.

Troy Spreeuw: And you will think back to these times when you yourself were having the degree conferred, or you yourself were sitting on the [00:12:00] sidelines watching the degree be conferred, and that's... So if you're having the degree conferred, you're like an entered apprentice. If you're watching the degree conferred, it's like being a fellowcraft.

Troy Spreeuw: And if it's you conferring the degree or the lecture, that's another level of appreciation because now you've memorized it and you're delivering it, but that's like being the master mason. So there's another threefold nature to the way our degrees work. You don't just see them conferred once, right?

Troy Spreeuw: You have them conferred once. You can only get them once because the drama and the way it works only works on you the first time. But then you could be exemplified and have it done again, just as you're an exemplar candidate, or you could be sitting on the sidelines watching it, or... and I don't think you appreciate the magic of what the work can do for you until you start delivering pieces yourself, which is why I'm a big believer in asking guys that don't even know what they're [00:13:00] saying to take on little pieces.

Troy Spreeuw: They don't have to learn the 20 minutes of the address to the brethren. They could do the addition to the apron, or they could do a set of working tools, or they can do the lesser lights after the greater. They could do all... There's lots of little four-line little memorizations that they could do, and I think newer brethren can a- can gain so much, even when they're still working on their individual catechisms and prove ups.

Troy Spreeuw: And if you don't know what those are, then you need to join to find that out. 

Salman Arif: There's there's plenty we're leaving in the dark here, but for

Troy Spreeuw: Sure. Sure. Look most of what I... everything I discuss is monitorial. I won't tip my hand. And really the only secrets we communicate are the, the nature of what the drama in the degrees is about

Troy Spreeuw: Mostly in the sublime degree especially, and the, the, the nature of the obligations and the [00:14:00] secrets the modes of recognition.

Troy Spreeuw: Though those, those are the secrets, and they've always been the secrets because that was how we would recognize each other as we traveled when we were operative Masons, and so it is now that we are speculative Masons. We w- we are secretive for a good reason, and

Troy Spreeuw: Methods of recognition, the modes of recognition, if you don't get specific instruction, it would be very difficult to pass a true test of whether or not you're a brother.

Troy Spreeuw: Even if you watch videos online, you'd have a hell of a time recreating the exact methodology each time, and especially from each jurisdiction 'cause there is lots of variability on that, right?

Salman Arif: There is a lot of richness a lot of richness in each and every action, posture, movement, word that is said. And you could spend a lifetime just figuring out the first three degrees which is, which are the main degrees, right? But now you, congratulations again, by the way, Troy, you're [00:15:00] District Deputy Grand Master.

Salman Arif: Big thing and an honor for us that

Salman Arif: you're part of our lodge.

Troy Spreeuw: I don't know how wise that is, but I will do my best not to abuse it.

Salman Arif: Yeah.

Troy Spreeuw: Thanks for the rec-

Salman Arif: think they couldn't have chosen a better candidate for that. Going back a little bit, you mentioned the quality of the ritual. I was there. You were the Worshipful Master when I was being initiated into my first degree. For me, that is gonna be, and I s- I'm gonna say this in every episode or every conversation we ever have, but such a majestic, such a grand experience, and I believe you, and of course the rest of the brethren there, made it that, exactly what it was. But, how do you qualify now that you're in that middle management role, as you say, how do you qualify what is good ritual versus that actually makes a difference? Or is there either/or? Is there a combination between the two? What's your opinion on that? I believe you've touched that on that a little [00:16:00] bit, but,

Troy Spreeuw: My, my favorite is when they break into song.

Salman Arif: Ah, okay.

Troy Spreeuw: I've yet to see that, but I really want like a television episode, like that one episode of Buffy where they sing through the whole thing.

Troy Spreeuw: The 

Salman Arif: Vampire Slayer?

Troy Spreeuw: Yeah. There's lots of other shows that have done m-

Salman Arif: seen

Troy Spreeuw: musical episodes too, like I think Grey's Anatomy's done them, and which is not surprising 'cause so many actors get a lot of joy from musical theater even though it doesn't have broad

Troy Spreeuw: The same broad appeal it used to have. I wish we'd break into song, I ... one day, you know what? We've got some pretty talented brethren on the,

Troy Spreeuw: I- in the, on the musical side of the craft. One day, I'm gonna be at a degree somewhere, and somebody's gonna be like, "Tonight we're not getting the regular lecture.

Troy Spreeuw: Tonight we're getting a poetic lecture sung by and such-and-such." And I will watch with rapt attention, and then I hope that brother drops the mic and leaves the stage. I don't know. D- sorry, what was the question? Where you were, what, what makes good ritual, or how do you

Salman Arif: Yeah.

Troy Spreeuw: [00:17:00] yeah, 

Salman Arif: as a 

Troy Spreeuw: you know it, when you see it. Here, h- here's what I can tell you. It's less about word perfection. Now I've traveled a lot, and I've seen a lot of ritual delivered word perfect but with no inflection. They just rattle off as quick as they can. And I understand for some guys, the performance, they're put under a lot of pressure to perform and whatnot, but it would be so much better if they missed half the words but they felt the half that they said.

Troy Spreeuw: Know what I mean? It's delivering it with some sort of feeling or inflection. And you ... I love referring to the point in your degree when you're brought to light and, there's a certain way I do it. And you were like, "Wow." And I broke character and chuckled. It's one of these things where you just

Troy Spreeuw: It's little things like that. And I'd never seen anybody really do it that way. I just started doing it that way, right? Now that's the [00:18:00] way I've always done it, and that's the way we do it now. It's ... but there's lots of other innovations that I've seen that Guys get better, and it's not that they're changing the words at all.

Troy Spreeuw: It's the rubric. It's the action. It's the way it's delivered. 

Salman Arif: Yeah 

Troy Spreeuw: and that matters so much more

Salman Arif: So acting, you would say, is a big element in this. The

Troy Spreeuw: Oh, sure.

Salman Arif: right? The power of

Troy Spreeuw: Yes.

Salman Arif: really matters,

Troy Spreeuw: Yes. And the methodology of delivery, and that's you can, you could take any line of any of the... and just say it over and all the different ways you could say it.

Troy Spreeuw: Question mark at the end, put an exclamation mark at the end. Inflect each word differently, and get a feel for what that does to the delivery,

Salman Arif: Yeah.

Troy Spreeuw: an actor might, right? And that... I don't know. I wish guys did it more. And that's what I think separates, a passable ritualist who gets it word perfect, which is, that is [00:19:00] no slouch, right? For some of these pieces. The tracing board in the Entered Apprentice Canadian work is 12 minutes.

Troy Spreeuw: It's very disjointed. It's six different lectures all put together. It's a very weird bouillabaisse of information, and it doesn't flow, but it's beautiful when delivered word perfect. And Lawrence Putnam did it for me, Brother Putnam did it for me when he was the junior warden the year I was initiated.

Troy Spreeuw: And it, h- his performance of it,

Salman Arif: Right

Troy Spreeuw: have to call for word a couple of times, but his performance left an impression, so much so that's always been my favorite piece,

Salman Arif: Yeah.

Troy Spreeuw: and that's what I've always wanted to excel at

Salman Arif: he's extremely articulate, and

Troy Spreeuw: Yeah

Salman Arif: heard him do a, a couple of pieces myself. profound delivery every single time, yeah. So I

Salman Arif: agree with you there. Yeah.

Troy Spreeuw: that, there again, the, the, getting the words right is only the barest minimum of [00:20:00] what makes Masonry amazing. And you hear these stories. Guys going and getting their degrees and e- everything's delivered from memory, and nobody... it, we take it for granted, but people in the outside world don't really realize how much of that there is.

Troy Spreeuw: And then the Concordant Body's just a whole other bunch more stuff, right? The York Rite Bodies, the Scottish Rite Bodies, you get a whole bunch more degrees with a whole not just word, grip, and sign for each one, different names and different addresses, but then all of the lectures and degree story that goes with it.

Troy Spreeuw: And guys deliver that, too. They go, they're like this, this little book that contains, and these little cipher books, people find them around now, and here's my Duke's Cipher. I keep losing it and then finding it again in my library. But these little ritual books, you'll find them sometimes in cipher, and this one's got words in it.

Troy Spreeuw: But you'll find them in cipher where it's letter dot pages of that, and you have to know what that letter means.[00:21:00] 

Salman Arif: Yeah

Troy Spreeuw: or, right? So you have, that's how guys kept it mouth to ear. But these ciphers are a a, an innovation that's less than 100 years old in most jurisdictions, and in some states, I don't think there's any provinces, but in some states of the United States, it's still illegal to publish the ritual in any form.

Troy Spreeuw: They don't even have one written down in a safe for Grand Lodge referral. It's g- it's referred mouth to ear. And the reason given that they keep doing it is that there is no mentorship. If you're gonna take, if you're just gonna take your ci- cipher book out to the outhouse and read it you don't need to get the mentorship from the older members.

Troy Spreeuw: And then you're not spending weeks and weeks preparing for your degrees by seeing your mentor or several mentors over and over again and getting that relationship built.

Salman Arif: That's so true.

Troy Spreeuw: Yeah. So we lose something in not doing that, right? But in, in the modern world, you gotta take the good with the bad.

Troy Spreeuw: And [00:22:00] some of the good is we have cipher manuscripts, and some of the bad is the mentorship isn't as good, right? Or you've gotta chase your mentors a little bit, or make schedules with them, or corner them on Zoom and ask them questions.

Salman Arif: No, I guess that's a very large argument about how convenience has overtaken richness from life, right? Maybe a topic from ano- for another day, but for sure, I agree with you there entirely. Let me

Salman Arif: just jump forward. 

Troy Spreeuw: an example before you go onto your... Here's an example. Are you going to be enriched by watching three hours of Tik, TikTok?

Troy Spreeuw: Or are you gonna be more enriched by re-watching, say, The King and I, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. 

Salman Arif: you're 

Troy Spreeuw: or The Ten Commandments or the Gone With the Wind, or I've never seen, for example, A Fistful of Dollars, A Few Dollars More, and The Good, the Bad and the Ugly.

Troy Spreeuw: I've never seen,

Salman Arif: You should.

Troy Spreeuw: I've never seen...

Salman Arif: will change you forever.

Troy Spreeuw: Yeah, and I was listening to the [00:23:00] movie podcast I like. They were talking about the Leone films, and I've never I've never... I might have watched a scene or two on TV, but I've never sat down and watched them. So why would you spend all that time on Facebook or TikTok cumulatively that many of us do scrolling every day?

Troy Spreeuw: This isn't an accusation. I'm just trying to get you to think about this now. You're much better off to grab some friends or your partner or your kids or your parents and sit down and watch a beautiful piece of high artwork. What is the highest, I believe, is the highest art form now is the is the motion picture.

Troy Spreeuw: Although some people would argue with me. I really think that it's a, it's an art form that is respected and had a huge business built around it, and I think that we've lost some of what was going on there. Anyway, so you were gonna say? Sorry I interrupted you.

Salman Arif: No, the

Troy Spreeuw: I've been having dreams.

Salman Arif: that, I- IMAX has deteriorated the experience of the silver screen. Even though i- it's much [00:24:00] more explosive in terms of what it captures it's wh- imperfection is what made it more beautiful back in the day. That's why I kinda revert back to some of the older movies myself. I was watching Thunderball today, James Bond, and I'm

Troy Spreeuw: Oh, one of the, one of the terrible James Bonds, but it's still good. It's so bad it's good. It's so bad it's good

Salman Arif: Sean Connery. You just can't get away from the whole, the... It's so sophisticated and there's so much eloquence. And yes, there's some misogyny, and yes, some of the effects could be better, but at the end of the day, it just becomes one of those most epic pieces of work that everybody kinda compares the new movies to still, right?

Salman Arif: And it's been 65 years, and

Salman Arif: still people are

Troy Spreeuw: somebody was saying to me the other day that each, each generation is defined by, can, it can have their own James Bond, and I'm guilty of saying out loud to my partner who heard this said, and I said, "You know what? I liked all the actors that did it." And

Salman Arif: Me 

Troy Spreeuw: [00:25:00] of course everybody loves Connery, but I thought,

Troy Spreeuw: I thought Roger Moore did a good job.

Troy Spreeuw: I think Timothy Dalton did a good job. Yeah. 

Salman Arif: I love 

Troy Spreeuw: my first Bond movie in the theater was A View to a Kill, and I think that was Timothy Dalton, and Grace Jones, who had just been in, in Conan the Barbarian or Conan the Destroyer, and I just remember how bananas she was. And then she was in that Eddie Murphy flick, Boomerang, huge flop, but was a cl- a, a movie I really enjoyed.

Troy Spreeuw: The, l- let's not go down the rabbit hole of movies here. But yes I appreciate... And Pierce Brosnan and Daniel Craig. And you know what? If they have a lady or a Black guy ha- be Bond next time, great. The, I think that's great. And I will not be one of those people being like, "Oh, they're destroying the franchise."

Troy Spreeuw: No. Let somebody else tell a different story with the archetypes. Let's reuse those archetypes to death. I'm one of those Star Wars fans too that, like I, I've said on this podcast [00:26:00] before, X-wings fighting in atmosphere with TIE fighters, th- that's, that to me, that's not, the, the it, that doesn't work. But when they make more Star Wars, I'm not the guy being like, "Oh, that's some bullshit there.

Troy Spreeuw: They, it's..." I'm the guy that's like, "More Star Wars? Yes. More? 

Salman Arif: Sure. 

Troy Spreeuw: take it. Even if it's bad, I'll still enjoy it." Did they squander the confrontation between Anakin and Palpatine? Yes, that will be one of the greatest movie misses of all time. They had this great opportunity. It was shot beautifully, and the text, the dialogue was terrible.

Troy Spreeuw: But we can't go back. We just only can move forward, so

Salman Arif: Yeah. I still

Troy Spreeuw: Learn the lesson

Salman Arif: movies in order, right? And not in the new order as people like to watch it nowadays, 'cause it just takes away so much from the whole experience. But, on the same concept, 

Troy Spreeuw: I think you should watch them in reverse order like Memento.

Salman Arif: Really?

Troy Spreeuw: Yes, [00:27:00] and then hit yourself over the head every 15 minutes and see if you could figure out what went on. They might make more sense i- if it's like Memento.

Troy Spreeuw: Why are we down this particular rabbit hole?

Salman Arif: You're really interested in this rabbit hole.

Troy Spreeuw: Particular, yeah. So yes stop scrolling through TikTok, especially TikTok. Stop b- browsing the Intertubes. Stop getting talking to ChatGPT as if you're flirting with a real live person. G- go to the theater and flirt with a real live person.

Troy Spreeuw: Go out and experiment with talking to real people. 

Salman Arif: Or do, 

Troy Spreeuw: I will highly recommend it. I highly recommend it anyways

Salman Arif: No, that's that's profound advice. I think there's something very true and honest about what you just said exactly in the sense that live life. Don't look at the reflection, but actually be there in real life and try to do something of your own. Create something, right?

Troy Spreeuw: And then be present. I wish I could take my own advice. If you could figure out [00:28:00] how to do that, please tell me. That like be present and not be worried about next week bills pa- bill payments or what you're doing for work next month or what you're gonna get your wife for her birthday or wha- what next holiday you're gonna take or wh- what color tie you should wear to the next lodge meeting.

Salman Arif: Symbology, now that is one of the main things that I feel like you really resonate with, and it's something that I'd really wanna out as well. And so you're part of the... you've been a very avid practitioner of the Western esoteric s- es- esoteric tradition, and,

Troy Spreeuw: a nice way of saying it, yes

Salman Arif: Yeah. Yeah. I don't wanna call you the devil man sorely.

Salman Arif: Oh, oops. I guess I did.

Troy Spreeuw: You c- you could call me the devil man. Doesn't mean I'm the devil man. It might mean that when I have the, people get the angel and the devil on their shoulders, I just get two devils

Salman Arif: two devils.

Troy Spreeuw: One devil and then a more devil

Salman Arif: Yeah.

Troy Spreeuw: on the other

Salman Arif: you the angel, Troy. 

Troy Spreeuw: That's what I keep trying to tell all [00:29:00] my critics, ex- especially people who don't, people who don't even know me but criticize me anyway

Salman Arif: Yeah everybody has their own stage of evolution, as my dad used to say, and it's not your business or your responsibility to make sure everybody evolves at the s- at the same pace as you. Not to be too pompous about it and not to bring ego into it, but there's always some element of ego when we're separate, right?

Salman Arif: So it's okay. It's just a relative term.

Troy Spreeuw: It takes two for there to be an offense. Somebody gotta give offense, somebody gotta take offense.

Salman Arif: Somebody's

Salman Arif: gotta take it too 

Troy Spreeuw: if I'm actively out there giving offense, you'll fucking know.

Troy Spreeuw: I'm big enough to admit that I'm that small,

Troy Spreeuw: look at me. Ouch, I'm growing. Look at, watch me grow. O- ouch

Salman Arif: Yeah, no I don't want people to start hating you because of

Troy Spreeuw: Nope.

Salman Arif: because that would be unfair to you, because you're your own worst enemy when it comes to defending yourself.

Salman Arif: That, that's what I've noticed the most

Troy Spreeuw: I'll step in it

Salman Arif: yeah, you'll step in it even though that's not you, but you're just, "You know what?

Salman Arif: [00:30:00] Is that what you think? All right, here's more of it," just to kinda-

Troy Spreeuw: For those people easily triggered,

Salman Arif: Yes.

Troy Spreeuw: that's, that... If you're, if you are so easily triggered

Troy Spreeuw: Me, wait until you meet the people that, I'm studying with and learning from. Boy, they got a surprise for you, pal

Salman Arif: Talking about the people that you study with how much has that influenced your overall sense and let's just say perspective on ritual? So more towards the more esoteric side that you've been practicing. How much do you bring from that into Masonic ritual?

Troy Spreeuw: Let's just say that there are, there are times when the ritual I'm doing is with myself or the higher aspects of myself, or I'm talking to other aspects of self or not self it's like prayer.

Troy Spreeuw: People wanna know how that's like. It's not like reciting a prayer, it's like performing [00:31:00] a prayer. And it, I don't mean to b- be labor the point, but in, in a lodge, when you're when you're... The, the chaplain is saying the prayers or the worshipful master is invoking the deity the, the rest of the degree is this, the same thing.

Troy Spreeuw: There again it's shards of the higher self sort of introducing itself to itself, trying to to wake up from its torpor. Torpor. There, there's a delicious word. Most, m- any- anybody who knows what that is a role-playing game fan of some variety. There's, So when you invest in some of these ritual practices,

Troy Spreeuw: And it, there's lots of different religious tradition that invest in these types of religious practices.

Troy Spreeuw: But then you add the symbology of a mystery tradition to it adds layers of meaning, right? And then if you treat the symbols as if they're alive or they're all aspects of the [00:32:00] same sort of living, breathing ex- existing consciousness, whatever aspect of that is it just adds layers and layers of of further richness

Salman Arif: I

Troy Spreeuw: to it,

Salman Arif: yeah.

Troy Spreeuw: right?

Troy Spreeuw: And 

Salman Arif: Evolving echoes, right?

Troy Spreeuw: yeah

Salman Arif: all kind of part of the same, just like a different perspective. You know what that reminds me of? And I'm sorry to interrupt you here 'cause you

Troy Spreeuw: No, not at all

Salman Arif: On a train of thought here. But when you sit in the different positions around the lodge see the same thing happening,

Salman Arif: It's a com- completely maybe too much of an exaggeration, but it is such a different experience, right? Sitting in the east, west, north, south, whatever you are, and you see the same stuff, even if it's done exactly the same, the... I feel like the kind of impression it leaves on you is totally different. And I think that is part of the [00:33:00] richness of the ritual work itself too, and why you should progress through all of the chairs and make sure that you don't miss any one of them too, right?

Troy Spreeuw: No, I've missed several, and I'll get back to them eventually, hopefully. But no, 

Salman Arif: I, 

Troy Spreeuw: I

Salman Arif: taking on three at a time in our lot sometimes.

Troy Spreeuw: sometimes the, the traffic works against us, right? No, there's a, th- there's a perspective, right? There's a different perspective in each chair, and there's, from each officer's position and each responsibility, and there's so much going on, right?

Troy Spreeuw: And if you just think of that observer and the observed, like what's going on there's so much being born at those moments. The point events going on over and over. And when you think about it in those terms, it's, can be really quite a, a sacred thing,

Salman Arif: Yeah. 

Troy Spreeuw: Focus on it that way

Salman Arif: hear you. You didn't go too deep on the esoteric side, and I don't blame you. There's a lot more [00:34:00] to the experience that the, the experiences that you've had actually that would be a tangent towards what we do in Freemasonry, generally speaking. Which is fine.

Salman Arif: But I still believe that the intent, the purpose, and it's not just how well you intonate, it's not just how well you memorized it, it's not just how good of an actor you are. I feel like on some level, it's how much you've internalized it, emoted, that kind of resonates 'cause... So you and I were both in sales, okay?

Salman Arif: There's an element to that where we need to believe even more so than the prospect that we're talking to, in that what we're providing them is actually, something that's good for them. if you're not, you're just a scam artist, right? You kinda need to believe in the product or the service that you're offering. And that's part of the esoteric tradition which really appeals to me, where it's not just how well you've said it, it's not just how good you look in that outfit, [00:35:00] it's also about how deeply you've internalized that entire concept. And when you say it to somebody using those specific words which have been used for eons or maybe even newer ritual, does leave a much more lasting impression. So that leads to a question that I have here, which is the chicken and the egg, right? Do you memorize first or do you internalize the concept first? What's more important? Is there something that's more important than the other?

Troy Spreeuw: Depends.

Troy Spreeuw: If I have time to learn all the words Then I learn all the words. And I- there's a methodology that I've learned from the Five-Minute Ritualist which I'll share in a minute, and I'm gonna teach classes on here in the coming weeks,

Salman Arif: Yeah. Excited about

Troy Spreeuw: about, about the technique to do letter by letter, word by word.

Troy Spreeuw: But if I don't have time, I will get the gist, I will get the gist of what is being said in the lecture. Like at an install. Sometimes you show up at an install and [00:36:00] somebody's, "Hey, do you know how to install the senior deacon?" And I- you're just like, "Nope." They're like there's nobody else, so it's gonna be you."

Troy Spreeuw: And you're like, "I better look at that." And then it's like you wanna hit the key words, you're giving them the staves, you wanna make sure you talk about that. You're putting on their jewel, you wanna make sure you talk about that. But getting the gist is, and being confident and delivering it with confidence matters way more because it, the, the installation's a bad example but oftentimes most of the crowd isn't gonna know your specific lodge's ritual well enough that they're gonna be correcting you or just be like, "Oh, he doesn't know what he's talking about."

Troy Spreeuw: But a good ritualist will extemporize and cover all his bases anyway. Now, I wouldn't recommend standing up and delivering one of the larger lectures extemporaneously. That being said, I saw recently an, an address to the Worshipful Master delivered by somebody who doesn't do it in a in a, a Worshipful Master, an installed, a board of installed masters.

Troy Spreeuw: [00:37:00] And there's an address that happens there. And I watched a brother deliver it to a m- a, a more junior brother, and he has installed this more junior brother in every, i- in all his degrees and at every chair, and now he's there to install of his Worshipful Master. So this brother who was doing it doesn't even do that, but he had the vast majority of his bases covered.

Troy Spreeuw: He did- he didn't have time to learn the whole ritual or d- for whatever reason didn't have the bandwidth to learn the wi- ritual word perfect. Didn't matter. He got up there and he was confident, and he covered all his bases. He made sure he delivered all the information that he needed to deliver, and it was beautiful.

Troy Spreeuw: And that's ... Now, more senior guys can get away with stuff like that or more positive delivery can get away with stuff like that. You asked, so look, if you've got the time, don't wait. If you have six weeks to learn a big piece, start not now but right now.

Troy Spreeuw: One of the things I like doing is recording it in my own [00:38:00] voice and they'll, it w- even though we say we're not supposed to do that, recording it in my own voice on a secure device and then playing it in my headphones even while I sleep, right?

Troy Spreeuw: Just to get it beaten into my stupid subconscious this is how it sounds. This, just like this, and then you start working on it in the shower and then you got it. But I, I would say find a, a ritual system that works, this five-minute ritual list is good, and apply it. Find a mentor to give you tips and take them.

Troy Spreeuw: But don't wait. If you have six weeks, start working on it immediately. It's if you have a presentation to give, like I do on freedom of conscience on October 28th at Capilano Lodge, which is a new slide presentation that I'm gonna be g- talking about this idea of religious forbearance and tolerance, known as freedom of conscience, where you can't, where you can't force somebody to [00:39:00] believe anything, and it's up to people to come to deity on their own terms.

Troy Spreeuw: Th- like I, I'm doing research every day, even just little bits. I'm reading, right now I'm reading John Stuart Mill for some idea of what he was saying in the 1840s, 1860s, which is an important pivotal time in the idea of religious freedom. And these ideas are under attack, right? So I wanna talk about that, so I'm doing the research right away.

Troy Spreeuw: Now all that said, it's more important when you deliver that you be confident. And if you completely fall apart, apologize and try and do as best you can, right? And if you c- if you know you're not gonna be able to do a good job, do, go out of your way to find somebody else to fill in, rather than sh- showing up on the day and not letting them...

Salman Arif: sure. 

Troy Spreeuw: it's your honor, it's on your honor as a Mason to try and somebody, find somebody to fill [00:40:00] in. True hardship, family hardship or something, guys'll understand. But you want, it- you've taken it on, it's up to you to make sure that you've done your best or found somebody else to do it,

Salman Arif: Yeah.

Troy Spreeuw: right?

Salman Arif: That's the commitment, right? That's the

Troy Spreeuw: That is the commitment. That is the commitment. Did I answer your question? Did I answer your question?

Salman Arif: you

Troy Spreeuw: can't remember.

Salman Arif: then some.

Troy Spreeuw: Okay, good

Salman Arif: On the same note I'm excited about the new lecture. I d- I didn't know about this. 

Troy Spreeuw: Yep.

Salman Arif: it yet?

Troy Spreeuw: Yeah, it's on my DGM calendar.

Salman Arif: It's on your calendar.

Troy Spreeuw: I'll probably th- this, this Friday night, October the 9th,

Troy Spreeuw: Mount Garibaldi Lodge was supposed to be a Fellowcraft. It's not gonna be, so I'll have some more fulsome comments. And I'm hoping we'll have our district education officer there. I gotta call him tomorrow and see.

Troy Spreeuw: But there'll be other educational presentations that night, and then it'll be the amazing festive board the guys at Mount Garibaldi are known for. Worshipful Master Trevor Derrick will be an excellent host. The [00:41:00] 17th Mount Elphinstone in Roberts Creek, that's up between Gibsons and Sechelt, towards my hometown.

Troy Spreeuw: October 17th there is going to be a funeral in the morning, and then I believe, a Fellowcraft degree at noon that day. And then excellent festive board always up that way, and you'll be able to catch the 8:30 ferry over, and like a 4 or 5 or 6:00 ferry back, so it'll be a long day, but should be a good time.

Troy Spreeuw: And then October 27th at at North Shore Lodge 93, where I'll be obligating... I'm hoping to obligate the Entered Apprentice candidates, and I've got the En- I've been working on that, too, in my own particular manner that I like to do, as you well know. And then the 28th. So I've got four District Deputy Grand Master official, official visits this month.

Troy Spreeuw: Plus, I'm working for Elections Canada right now, so it's gonna be a busy...

Salman Arif: Yeah,

Troy Spreeuw: September was crazy. This month's gonna be also crazy

Salman Arif: Yeah, welcome to October.

Troy Spreeuw: Yeah. It just, it [00:42:00] seems like I'm just a girl who can't say no, so I just keep adding more things. And then we're gonna do some showings of Join or Die, that documentary about,

Salman Arif: Yeah.

Troy Spreeuw: Dr.

Troy Spreeuw: Robert, Dr. Robert Putnam. We're gonna be doing them open to the public generally. We're gonna be asking brethren to come and invite a friend to talk about why fraternal organizations, unions, sports teams, all organizations cannot attract members right now. And we're gonna do Q&A afterwards, and then a bit of a recruiting pitch to some people who come.

Troy Spreeuw: Should be interesting

Salman Arif: had a bit of a chat about that yesterday too, but

Salman Arif: I'll be... I'm

Troy Spreeuw: De- details forthcoming. I think the 28th at Agnes Street Temple in New West. The 28th of November, 'cause not October, 'cause I can't be in two places at once.

Salman Arif: Yeah. Changing the topic a little bit, but still on topic. You mentioned, I don't wanna lead into your workshop just yet. There's one more point I wanted to touch, which was something [00:43:00] I'm a fan of, and I've been to, I believe, three different lodges I've seen your memory palaces

Troy Spreeuw: Ah, yes. Yeah

Salman Arif: I absolutely love the concept. I believe when we were at the North Shore Lodge if I'm not mistaken, I was the only one who asked the most pertinent questions, while plenty of people were scratching their heads at, "Okay, what exactly just happened to us right now?"

Salman Arif: Because it's 

Troy Spreeuw: and I, to be fair, I didn't even g- I didn't even load you with questions. You just already knew what questions to ask 'cause you'd seen me present it before in my document.

Salman Arif: this was not prepped at all

Troy Spreeuw: No

Salman Arif: for sure. I was just generally very curious and I took the opportunity because there was some silence there for me to actually say something.

Troy Spreeuw: That's

Salman Arif: But my

Troy Spreeuw: har- hard to believe when I'm around that there'd be silence enough to ask a question, but yes

Salman Arif: That was probably because you were out of time and

Troy Spreeuw: I was out of breath. Yeah, like 70, 75 minutes later, I was like, "Have I said enough? All right, anybody awake out there? Hello? [00:44:00] Hello?"

Salman Arif: Point was to bring on that topic as 'cause we're talking about ritual. memorization versus actually creating a vivid memory palace in your mind,

Troy Spreeuw: Hmm

Salman Arif: what is the difference, and to what extent does that maybe improve the overall experience you have, not just for being a ritualist, uh, but also as the journey in Freemasonry? would you put that in your terms, own terms? 

Troy Spreeuw: the practice of memory palace, there's a very specific methodology when building memory palaces. And there's some famous examples in some great books. Francis Yates's The Life of Giordano Bruno, The Hermetic St- Studies of Giordano Bruno. Anyway th- there- there's good examples in there, and then I've seen some other great examples in some presentations I've seen recently, including some frescoes on, in monasteries and whatnot from the Dark A- from the Dark [00:45:00] Ages where the only people allowed to learn anything were the clergy and the monks.

Troy Spreeuw: I digress.

Salman Arif: right

Troy Spreeuw: But the practice of building a memory palace can make a, make your your memory and imagination work together to provide a more vivid feeling experience. So you're not just memorizing the words,

Troy Spreeuw: You're delivering the words with a, an intentional passion in a particular manner, right?

Troy Spreeuw: And the memory palaces help you construct those ideas. And it's i- it's a technique that one needs to study, and the more one applies it the better you get at it. And it's famous to give people a hard time about their memory palace practices because it's...

Troy Spreeuw: there's some good memes going around that, that amuse me about it now. But the practice of adding ridiculous images and then adding really strong [00:46:00] emotional or triggers to those visuals that make them very easy to remember r- really does help. But that's more about referring the meaning.

Troy Spreeuw: Still, if you wanna be word perfect in a way that Masons respect, using a a, a word memorization technique is different than a memory palace, but the memory palaces can help because they im- that technique improves your overall memory and can make you much better at being able to recall and recite information quickly

Salman Arif: Definitely. And I don't mean to jump the conclusion you just made, but a question that I feel like I could have asked you the last time that just came to me is, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, maybe I'm looking into this way too deep, but would you say that creating this memory palace where essentially you're memorizing the whole lodge as you do this, right?

Salman Arif: 'Cause you need to understand

Troy Spreeuw: You can use the lodge [00:47:00] as a memory palace, but it doesn't have to be.

Salman Arif: go.

Troy Spreeuw: Could be a church, it could be a house or a castle or a monastery. Any of these things will work.

Salman Arif: But let's put it

Salman Arif: in the most strictest of Masonic 

Troy Spreeuw: the lodge's layout is ideal as memory palace

Salman Arif: that's what I mean. If it is ideal, do you mean that only in a more superficial way where, you know, the dimensions and all that will help you memorize or... is something that I firmly believe about Freemasonry, and it kind of alludes to the same point where the magic works whether you want it to or not, is that would these dimensions, once internalized and memorized in a certain way, they affect your psyche and maybe even spirit in a certain way?

Salman Arif: Is that something that you've ever thought about, or

Troy Spreeuw: There,

Salman Arif: me?

Troy Spreeuw: there are those of us who believe that Freemasonry is all about archetypal temple building. That the constant building allegory, even around the initiates as living stones, [00:48:00] this idea of the temple not made with hands, this idea that all the pieces fitting together so perfectly a- as being the m- appearing to be more the handiwork of the great architect than of mortal man.

Salman Arif: Right

Troy Spreeuw: this idea that there was no sound of metal implement, only wood and stone used in the construction of the temple. The... All of this, I don't wanna call it superstition, all of this tradition, this traditional history, this Masonic tradition informs us. When anybody says that, you know they're just slanging bullshit.

Troy Spreeuw: Masonic tradition informs us that this is the purpose of the craft, right? And so what do y- th- I believe that we're tapping into an unconscious i- idea that we're all building the same archetypal temple. We're not only building our own temple internally inside, but we're building a greater [00:49:00] archetypal temple that represents King Solomon's Temple, and the idea that King Solomon's Temple is a perfect exemplar for the universe, right?

Troy Spreeuw: For the, for God to indwell. Perhaps that we're, that's what we're supposed to do with the temples of our lives so we can have the deity indwell. These sorts of things are fun to contemplate. I'm not gonna give you, I'm not gonna give you the answer, though. You g- you gotta do the work and come to those answers.

Troy Spreeuw: You gotta get, do, you gotta do the work, come to those answers yourself. I...

Salman Arif: Fair enough.

Troy Spreeuw: Maybe I'm crazy,

Troy Spreeuw: Right? Maybe I've already gone, maybe

Salman Arif: so no. So on that note theosophy, right? Jiddu Krishnamurti he

Troy Spreeuw: Sure

Salman Arif: very famously, no measure of sanity to be well-adjusted to a profoundly sick society."

Troy Spreeuw: yeah. Yeah.

Salman Arif: So what's

Troy Spreeuw: And that,

Salman Arif: at

Troy Spreeuw: ain't that the, ain't that the truth? And don't we spend so much, don't we expend so much [00:50:00] of our good stuff trying to fit in?

Troy Spreeuw: And that's just how we're socially constructed. I don't know how anybody's getting any better re- about that.

Salman Arif: Yeah.

Troy Spreeuw: y- yes I agree. We all waste too much good stuff trying to get by and fitting in and being normal, and if you can figure out how to b- get past that, just let me know.

Troy Spreeuw: I wanna know, 'cause I wanna not do that

Salman Arif: If anybody has part of the answer, I believe you're one of

Troy Spreeuw: Oh, come on. Come on

Salman Arif: Now, I'm gonna let you talk more about your upcoming workshop especially about the five-minute ritual list. I really wanna know more. 

Troy Spreeuw: So yeah. After I'm done after I'm done

Salman Arif: There we go. 

Troy Spreeuw: on the 20...

Salman Arif: book

Troy Spreeuw: I shouldn't put it in front of the microphone. There. There's the book by Kim March, and I've got more copies. But in order to come to the class you need to be a listener to get the information. But you don't have to have a copy.

Troy Spreeuw: It'll help. It'll [00:51:00] help if you have a copy, but we're gonna go over the materials that are in the book. And I'll probably be starting again, if you sign up at themystictye.com, if you sign up for the newsletter, it'll give you the details. We may start doing meetings later in the months on Sundays or Mondays de- depending on what people's availability is.

Troy Spreeuw: And we're gonna be talking first of all about the methodologies expressed in this amazing book, and other methodologies that work for people to deliver excellent ritual performances or acting performances or singing performances or any of the number of things that are adjacent to the work that we do.

Salman Arif: You're just looking for a musical there, Troy. That's all you want.

Salman Arif: The question I was gonna ask you is from this Five-Minute Ritualist book and the workshop that you're planning to do,

Troy Spreeuw: Yes

Salman Arif: taken from Kim's approach? What is [00:52:00] something that you've added, and what is ultimately the result you'd hope the brethren to attain from attending this?

Troy Spreeuw: I've been using it now since a disastrous performance this spring. I was tasked with doing a p- particular type of ritual. I showed up on the day and I was terrible. And I realized then that it was, my memory took a beating when I was injured last year. I had a hyp- hypoxic brain injury.

Troy Spreeuw: It took me probably more than a year to get over it because of the surgery. But then once I started studying and applying myself in a different fashion, I used to brute force, just listen to it over and over repeat, repeat. Br- brute... Me- memory by rote, and it works okay, but it's very time-consuming.

Troy Spreeuw: What I appreciate about Kim's approach is that there's a way to build your own mnemonics, and he breaks down how it works, and he gives you a tool, a technique to apply, and if that doesn't work, try this one, and if this one doesn't work, [00:53:00] try that one. So there's a couple of different ways to do it.

Troy Spreeuw: And then it... And then he breaks it down so that you're scheduling a bit every day, because that's the key, is to not just get repetition, but to stay on it and keep it fresh. And once you get it, then embedding it in deep memory, because there's other ways to do that. And I didn't really realize that there's a whole science to that.

Troy Spreeuw: Now, what did I bring to it? I still have certain techniques that I use that aren't delimited in this book that have helped me, especially with performance. What we were talking about it earlier, where you take a, a line that sounds like it's going to be impactful, and you say it, and you put a different inflection on e- each word each time until you've done every possible permutation you can think of one sentence over and over.

Troy Spreeuw: This is a, a sc- a, a trick that actors use to get different levels of performance or different interpretations of the same group of words, right?

Troy Spreeuw: So we're gonna, we're [00:54:00] gonna do all of that, and I would expect it's gonna be a once a month, it's gonna be on Zoom, it's gonna be for the next six months, maybe five months, and then maybe we'll repeat it again.

Troy Spreeuw: I'm also going to be doing a tarot and Qabalah class for Esotericism, Freemasons, and Wiccans, and Pagans, and other people interested in religious symbology. Because those are the cornerstones of the Western Esoteric tradition, and combined with the symbols from astrology and alchemy, that's everything.

Troy Spreeuw: I've got a couple of books here that are called The Key of It All, The Eastern Mysteries and The Western Mysteries. It... If you'll learn those four systems fairly well, you, you pretty much have it cased, and any sigil, anything at all anybody puts in front of you, you can figure it out from those sort of groups of symbologies.

Troy Spreeuw: And, and-

Salman Arif: no, I'm at the edge of my seat for that one for sure. I've been waiting for a while. 

Troy Spreeuw: So

Salman Arif: let me 

Troy Spreeuw: I haven't taught any of that.

Salman Arif: Yeah

Troy Spreeuw: I think the last time I did that was for an AMD group during the [00:55:00] pandemic,

Troy Spreeuw: And there, lots of people were like, "How dare he?"

Salman Arif: Yeah.

Troy Spreeuw: I remember that it really upset all the right people, so now I'm likely to do it again.

Salman Arif: So now you know it's good.

Troy Spreeuw: Yeah I know it's, I know it's excellent.

Salman Arif: exactly

Troy Spreeuw: it- anything worth doing is gonna upset somebody, and the, the first rule of Masonic leadership is if somebody doesn't have a problem with it, you're not doing it right

Salman Arif: Ironically, that's how standup comedians test their material too.

Troy Spreeuw: Really?

Salman Arif: Yeah. There you go. Five-minute ritual list.

Troy Spreeuw: Screen, screen cap it

Salman Arif: cap it. Screen cap it? Oh, there you go.

Troy Spreeuw: The shameless plug. We're gonna be d- doing that starting in November. And then end of November, we're gonna do, as I was saying November 28th at Agnes Street for sure, a showing of Join or Die open to seekers and other interested parties that wanna come join us and watch the 75-minute [00:56:00] documentary about the life of Dr.

Troy Spreeuw: Robert Putnam. That's the guy who wrote Bowling Alone and a very influential sociologist, evidence-based sociologist and scientist behavioral scientist who had just some amazing influence on the world in the last 30 years. And then we're going to talk about... and that was produced, I b- I believe it came out in 2022, 2023.

Troy Spreeuw: We show, we showed it at Agnes Street in 2024 provided popcorn, and we had . It was a really good turnout. We had a really good time. And so we're hoping to get a few more, and we're asking the brethren to invite any seekers or people they know that would make good Masons to come out.

Troy Spreeuw: Not that it's a recruiting venture, but we will be giving a short, how do you become a Freemason at the end, and then introducing people to brothers who can help make that happen. 'Cause to be one, ask one, right? What does that even mean? It means you gotta know some brothers to get in, and people are like, "Oh, I was waiting for somebody to ask."

Troy Spreeuw: You could wait your whole [00:57:00] life. Our detractors have spread that rumor for generations that you're gonna wait to be asked. You'll never get asked. You've gotta ask yourself of my own free will and accord. We say that. We say that f- is this of your own free will and accord? Are you here of your own volition?

Troy Spreeuw: We ask, I think, seven times before the end of the Entered Apprentice degree, "Are you sure? Are you sure?"

Troy Spreeuw: Just wanna make sure that we're sure, and you're sure.

Salman Arif: equivocation,

Troy Spreeuw: Or mental reservation. And then we don't... See, this is why we don't wanna spend those 200 hours just on anybody. It's gotta be somebody who's worth it.

Troy Spreeuw: So

Troy Spreeuw: Anyway, that's what I got coming up. And of course, we're gonna do EFC 2027. We're just waiting on three specific speakers we're going to invite next year. We still may have a slot for one more if people wanna apply at esotericmasonry.com. I'd highly recommend that. But advanced tickets will be at a discount but the ticket price will be going up this year.

Troy Spreeuw: We had record [00:58:00] attendance this year, and we're afraid that if we don't raise the price, we're gonna sell out the little venue we've got. So gotta do that.

Salman Arif: exciting

Troy Spreeuw: if you're living in the States and you missed Esotericism in Freemasonry Conference, but you want a book that we featured at that conference, please DM me.

Troy Spreeuw: I'll make sure we get it out to you somehow.

Salman Arif: Yeah. Wonderful

Troy Spreeuw: What's that? You must... Did, is that all the questions? Did you have any more questions?

Salman Arif: No I've gone through my little yeah, my

Troy Spreeuw: Then how about a bonus question? You got a b- bonus question we could edit it out?

Salman Arif: have tons of bonus questions.

Troy Spreeuw: make something up and see what I have to say

Salman Arif: Here's something. So

Troy Spreeuw: Jiddu Krishn- Krishna- Krishnamurti. Did it shock you that I knew it, that I knew who that was? Come on.

Salman Arif: Y- you know

Salman Arif: who that 

Troy Spreeuw: people haven't read Krishnamurti, but I have. Lots of people will know Blavatsky

Salman Arif: is

Troy Spreeuw: Leadbeater or Annie Besant, but most people won't know Krishnamurti

Salman Arif: So he's technically he's the Blavatsky of the 21st century, right?

Troy Spreeuw: Yeah.

Salman Arif: supposed to be.

Troy Spreeuw: he was [00:59:00] raised to be their world teacher, and he rejected it all. He was like, "No, not me."

Salman Arif: I love the guy. Some of

Troy Spreeuw: It was

Salman Arif: maybe 

Troy Spreeuw: a, Life of Brian moment, that guy

Salman Arif: I like that. Yeah,

Troy Spreeuw: we're not supposed to collect shoes. We're supposed to take off our shoes. And anyway

Salman Arif: But no I love his speeches. Some of them are so profound. and so the concepts he has are unsustainable for sure, if you want to be part of a profoundly sick society. But I guess that's part of the appeal. He's that opposite extreme. Or maybe he's right in the middle and we just don't get it, and we're on an extreme, right?

Salman Arif: So who are

Troy Spreeuw: Yes. Yeah. I don't wanna judge. I don't wanna judge Krishnamurti. Not only that, he's, I think he's dead. Isn't he dead?

Troy Spreeuw: He's gotta be dead

Salman Arif: 10, 15 years ago at least now, right? But it was very important to me to read his stuff and to watch his lectures. I'll say another thing. Somebody who is not a Freemason or a Theosophist at all, but Alan Watts has had a profound [01:00:00] influence on me as well.

Troy Spreeuw: You wanna,

Salman Arif: a bit of-

Troy Spreeuw: I, who is that? You wanna give me an idea of who that might be

Salman Arif: Alan Watts is he's more of a hippie, he used to talk about tr- different types of life philosophies and spirit and soul and life purpose back in

Troy Spreeuw: You might be familiar with his work, but his name isn't ringing a bell

Salman Arif: They're doing a whole thing downtown at the, I believe it's the Orpheum or somewhere, where they're gon- going to be playing his lectures with some background music.

Salman Arif: It's gonna be a whole psychedelic moment for many people, I'm sure, 'cause it's BC after

Troy Spreeuw: That sounds cool.

Salman Arif: Yeah. Yeah.

Troy Spreeuw: He, was he associated with Leary or anybody like that?

Salman Arif: No, I don't believe so. He was more of a standalone. He was very into the Taoist movement back in the '70s

Troy Spreeuw: I have a lot of time for Joseph Campbell, and I've got, I got a bunch of his series' here. And a lot of people are like, "Oh, poo-poo that," but I think his rediscovery of the archetype

Troy Spreeuw: The application of the archetype is probably the [01:01:00] most influential work since Jung, I think, Joseph Campbell. And I remember the transformative experience of stumbling across his stuff on PBS when I was a kid.

Troy Spreeuw: And I was that egghead kid that would be like, "Wow, this is really cool. Mom, can we get these books?" And she's like, "Y- yes, honey, next time we go to the store we can g-," and then you just, 

Salman Arif: Of course. "

Troy Spreeuw: Oh yeah, we'll get... Yeah, no problem," when we go to the library and it's just 

Salman Arif: you grew up in a more religious household back in the day too, right? So the-

Troy Spreeuw: I converted myself when I was 12. Our household was not religious until I started going. One of my, one of my grade school friends, his dad was a minister at the United Church, and I went there. And then as I was a teenager, I got radicalized in some strange way and we had a breakaway sect from the United Church 'cause they wanted to let gay people be a minister.

Troy Spreeuw: D- shocking. Shocking that, that human beings that just happen to [01:02:00] be differently inclined would want to also be attracted to being a minister, and I can't believe it, because the person I am now just thinks that person I was then was a dick. That's dumb. But that was 35 years ago

Salman Arif: No, but if you don't actually feel like that guy was a dick, then you haven't evolved. I was, in my opinion as well, a very petty kind of person

Troy Spreeuw: And it makes me wonder what kind of a shank I am now

Salman Arif: And what will become of you later?

Troy Spreeuw: When will I... I had occasion today to go talk to a former employer who with which I had variance for a while and it was a bit cathartic today. So that actually happened today, and it was like, I can't believe that was so easy.

Troy Spreeuw: Why did I wait 18 months to go do that, or 20 months to go do that? I didn't need to wait.

Troy Spreeuw: Anyway,

Salman Arif: makes you think.

Troy Spreeuw: that was his daughter engineered that. I had lunch with her a little while ago. She's like, "You should just go talk to him. He's fine. You're fine, [01:03:00] he's fine, everything's fine." 

Salman Arif: Good to know. That's a good thing.

Troy Spreeuw: Yeah. And it's a small industry I work in the heavy equipment materials handling, and he's got a big wheel locally, and I...

Salman Arif: I see

Troy Spreeuw: He doesn't need me, but I could sure use him, right? And w- why would I not? It's silly

Salman Arif: Yeah, no, you say that, Troy but I know you, and even if that were not the reason you would've gone, 'cause you have nothing to gain from me, and yet you give me time at your worst of times, and I appreciate you for

Salman Arif: that. 

Troy Spreeuw: I, don't like leaving hats on the ground. I don't want, I don't want there to be... Again, there's very few people that are beyond the pale, and they know who they are. And I know they're listening and being really mad.

Salman Arif: Yeah.

Troy Spreeuw: Why?

Salman Arif: the actor.

Troy Spreeuw: Don't listen. It's like, if I make you crazy, don't listen to my stuff.

Salman Arif: Yeah.

Troy Spreeuw: Don't don't lend me any credence. Don't let me take up any room inside your head, mortal enemy. I don't even know why it's a [01:04:00] problem. I'm mostly harmless over here

Salman Arif: I believe actually, right? 

Troy Spreeuw: Mostly harmless.

Salman Arif: Yeah, mostly.

Salman Arif: I won't get into another topic here, but something did come to mind. But Troy, thank you so much for your time today. I really appreciate you expanding on these of, I believe, interesting questions, right? And explaining to a youngin here or maybe a less experienced brother what the intricacies of these concepts are.

Salman Arif: I always appreciate that about you.

Troy Spreeuw: Yes, go register to vote wherever you live. Go vote. Exercise your franchise. If you don't know what that means, go to civics class and learn. I don't care who you vote for, go vote. Even if you spoil your ballot, go vote.

Salman Arif: Since you don't have any more soda on you

Troy Spreeuw: I did. I finished my soda and I finished my water. And the foster cat that we've got one of my in-laws,

Troy Spreeuw: Passed away, and so we've got his cat here for the first time tonight, and he was hiding, and he came out and wandered around by my feet while we were talking.

Salman Arif: Interesting.

Troy Spreeuw: whatever I was saying was [01:05:00] quite appealing.

Troy Spreeuw: Yeah, it was sweet.

Troy Spreeuw: Salman. Thanks so much for that. I'll edit this up and it'll drop on Thursday

Salman Arif: That sounds amazing.

Troy Spreeuw: Yep

Salman Arif: gave me such a good ending to my day today, and it was not a good start, I'll tell you

Troy Spreeuw: Thanks. Thanks. That's a joy. That's a real joy.

Salman Arif: You have a great night, okay?

Troy Spreeuw: You too

Salman Arif: Bye.

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In the meantime, check out the Masonic Conferences website at masonicconferences.com. Upcoming classes and events will all be listed on the Mystic Tye Show calendar, including upcoming five-minute ritualist classes, tarot and Qabalah classes, [01:06:00] and super secret in-person listener gatherings. Make sure to sign up for our regular newsletter updates at mystictye.com.

Esotericism and Freemasonry Conference 2027 is being planned right now. Speakers and advance tickets will be announced soon at esotericmasonry.com Graphics and web hosting are by Art Szabo Creative. A special thanks to Organist for our theme music Happy to meet, sorry to part, and happy to meet again