Summer School with the Theology Dept: Faith Alone

In our second episode of Summer School with the Theology Department, junior theology teachers Dave Rueter and Isaac Tewes cover Faith Alone. Through the lens of the student question, “Where do works fit into our faith?”

Next up: Scripture Alone and Christ Alone

We’ll be back with a new season of the podcast in August - so send us your ideas! We want to talk about what you want to hear. Email us at podcast@lhsparker.org.

Transcript

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Intro & The Solas
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Hey, everybody. Welcome back to Summer School with the theology department, where we are covering, um, the solas this year. So today we're gonna be talking about faith alone, but we're framing this up as, uh, we're framing this up through the lens of student questions. So today the question that we're tackling is,

Where do works fit into our faith? Um, so before we get started I have two of our theology teachers, Dr.

Reeder, [00:01:00] Mr. Tavis. Both have been on the podcast before. Both teach junior theology? Yes. Okay. Got it right this time. So can you just, start us off by giving us a brief overview of what are the solas?

Yeah, I can get us started. Um, so when you talk about the Reformation, um, and the five different solas that came out of, uh, the Protestant Reformation, we're saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, according to scripture alone, and we do everything for the glory of God alone. I think that's five.

Yeah. Yes. Okay, awesome.

I just last episode learned that there were five. I always thought there were four. So, um, we're only doing four, but someday we'll get the fifth one. There's

a tendency, 

Lutherans tend to em- emphasize the four. The Reformed tend to emphasize the five total. Ah. They all fit together.

It's not as if the Lutherans are hesitant on the last one. It's just when we... If, if a Lutheran is gonna put a series together, we're gonna put it together with four of them.

[00:02:00] Oh, then okay. I

Maybe at the neglect of the other, but that, that's just the tendency.

We'll circle back. We will someday circle back on this. Um, okay, so just to give, like, everyone a common definition, 


What Is Faith?
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can you guys describe what is faith?

Yeah. We, uh, we describe faith, um, from a Christian lens as the gift of believing or trusting in the promises of the gospel.

So trusting in the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus. I think that's a pretty simple definition of faith,

Yeah, I think the, the biggest key is it's trust, really. If, if you're gonna put it into one word, it's trust

I love that. That's a word people...

It's less Christianese It's- Yeah. Mm-hmm. Okay, so just 


Where Do Works Fit In?
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jumping right into our student question: Where do works fit into our faith?

That, yeah, that's always the fun one because, uh, it, it's sort of our, you know, it's, it's kind of like our, our default religion [00:03:00] as humanity. Uh, we want to fall back on, "Well, yeah, but what do I have to do?"

Yeah,

Uh, and functionally, every religion heads in that direction at some point.

Uh, some are very upfront, direct, here it goes. Here's what you need to do in order to have a right standing with whatever deity that you're, you know, worshiping or what have you. Uh, Christianity flips that on its head and says that you're not going to, in fact, do anything good. In fact, the way in which God looks at what society would say is good works, God doesn't even look at those as though they are good.

Because if they are not done out of a re- loving response to him-

Mm-hmm.

he doesn't even view them as good. Mm-hmm. Which is a hard thing to kind of deal with and accept a- and kind of even wrap your brain around, because you can look at it and say, "Yeah, but I know all these great people who, they have no faith."

You know, I've known people, and personally, I've known people where I- some of the best [00:04:00] people I know at times have no faith in Christ, and yet what they produce appears to be good. But when it's weighed in the balance, what Christ is really, what God is really looking for is what's in our heart when we are taking action, and that's kind of where the fruit is born.

Uh, and I think that's... A- a- and I think looking at it from a fruit production- sort of a, a standpoint, um, I'll, I'll put it in this frame. Um, the last place before I moved here to Colorado, and, um, I was living in Livermore, California, and it's kind of the East Bay Area, very winery town thing. Mm. So literally to the point where there was a moment where we were, like, dealing with shrubs and bushes and whatever in the backyard and discovered, oh, we have a grapevine buried under other things.

And just, you know, trimmed it back and got it going, and you're just kind of going, "Okay, I don't know what to do with [00:05:00] this." We didn't really do much to cultivate or what have you, but it was healthy enough- that all you do is leave it, and it starts sprouting and growing and, and it was probably the kind of a thing that if you put more time and effort into it, you could actually develop it, grow...

I mean, we got the tiniest little, you know, the tiniest little not really even terribly edible kind whatevers, but-

Really sour.

it's kind of like, well, but it produced something. You know, and so the, the direction you should look, I think, when you're looking at, uh, where do works fit in with regard to faith, is if our faith is rested or abiding, that's that fun, you know, word that it, it's a rich word, it just- A weird word because nobody, who, who uses it?

don't, I don't Abide 

day ... You

don't use abide every day?

Well

strangely enough, no. Um, you know, think of that one as like resting deeply maybe is probably a good way to

look [00:06:00] at that

If you're resting deeply in your faith, the natural thing you're going to produce is good works. That's fruit of, the product of your reliance on Christ.

You don't... The way I, I look at it is like if we unburdened that grapevine and, and such of all the other foliage from whatever else was around, and it didn't produce, would I be mad at it? Mm.

Mm.

Like, "D- darn it, why aren't you producing more fruit?" It's like, you know, it's like, like let's, let's yell at the apple tree for not If it's not in good soil, if it's not cared for well, if, you know, in other words, if there's nothing fueling the growth, it's not gonna produce.

Mm-hmm.

So faith is that fuel- Mm ... that ends in the result of our works, which is the fruit

Okay, I 

two questions. One is 


Common Grace & Intent
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for my own personal learning, so I might cut [00:07:00] this out. Um, when you talk about, and I'm, I think you're thinking of the verse in Isaiah that's like all of our good works are just filthy rags before Lord.

Um, where does common grace fall into that? Because my understanding, and tell me if I, maybe I don't understand common grace, isn't it like by God's grace, even non-believers can do good in this world?

do good in this world Yeah, and I think you would, you would, and, and Mr. Tavis, jump in if you wanna have some fun with this one too, but it... I, I think the distinction is, you know, when we're talking about is it good in the sense of, uh, does it merit anything with regard to our salvation?

I think that's kind of

the biggest distinction there. Oh. Oh, okay. That's helpful.

And and 

Okay. That's helpful. And, and maybe I was a little less than clear on that part of it, which

I 

so not like good for humanity- but good for salvation. Okay. that's probably- That's helpful.

Would that be fair?

Yeah. 

I Would say so.

And I think, uh, to be, to be completely fair with this, too, we can have works that appear [00:08:00] good, um, that are done with the wrong intent, right? I, I mean, that, that would be something that, um, you know, we, we could talk-- In my, in my class in theology, I talk about I was the spokesperson in high school, um, for r- uh, resume boosters, but putting in the bare base level, um, of, effort for that r- You know, so my contribution to National Honor Society as a high schooler, um, was not for the benefit of Chaska High School.

Um, and I hate to say that, but it was doing something that appeared right, um, for a potentially a selfish cause, So it's, it's tricky to evaluate even exactly what-- It is hard for us our humanity to evaluate what is a good work. Only God knows. Um, so I think that that's a helpful distinction, too.

I, I wanted to come back to one point, too, where we talked about faith being the root and good works [00:09:00] being, uh, the fruit, end result of that We've had students who, at Lutheran, think that they have to have this buttoned-up faith, right? In order, um, to call themselves, "I, I am a Christian," because of these different, you know, marks.

And while I do know that there's some traditions and denominations that really look at these different marks, what we talk about, going back to that faith definition, is that, that trust or that dependence, right? And so our faith is at different points. Dr. Reader and I have experienced people who are at various places in their faith We're at different spots, but ultimately it's that, that trust. Even childlike faith, a trust in Jesus as, as my savior. Um, and what flows from that might look different for every single Christian

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Thank you. That's really helpful. Um, my second follow-up [00:10:00] question is, when we talk about faith being trust or dependence, both of those things feel like things that I have to do, like I have to, I have to trust, and I have to be dependent on. Um, but in scripture, 


Faith as a Gift
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faith is described as a gift, so h- how do we deal with that tension?

The, oh, that's, that's always the fun one because you know, it, it does have the feel of your own participation

in it

i, honestly, I think the, the easiest... This is such a cop-out at Lutheran High go back to Luther, right? 

Like to go 

to- Wow ... go back this. But it was something that, that Luther struggled with was I have to be good enough to participate in faith or participate in grace.

And to Romans 1, where he says that the just, the righteous shall live by, by faith, right? That, [00:11:00] that completely shaped everything for him. 'Cause he was somebody who, um, was walking on eggshells, and then he realized, "No, I, I, I will fall deeper in love with Jesus. I will trust in Jesus more." And it's, it's really just a deeper love and appreciation.

He understood his sin.

Mm.

He understood how big of a sinner he was- and his trust grew.

Mm. That's

I think is a helpful way. So, like, students think, "And I have to have this all figured out, put together," right?

Yeah.

The guy who this school was named after, right, he realized how big of a sinner he was and how much he needed to trust God.

So I don't know. I think that, that, it sh- that helps us to shape this conversation of faith

I think, I think some of the time we wanna have, um, mix in too much of our own knowledge of what that faith is. Um, and you know, you're talking about the, the childlike faith.

Honestly, some of the time the childlike faith is easier- on us [00:12:00] because it's that, you know, I'm not super, mechanically in- in- inclined, I'm playing with an analogy in my head, you know. Um, you know, there's, there's those people who they understand, they have a trust that when they put the key in the engine of their car, it's gonna start because they understand how it's going to work.

They understand combustion of it. They understand, you know, if they hear something a little bit off. I don't know if you've ever been to a mechanic where they'll just like to listen to something go, "Oh, that's this." And I'm going, "Sure it is. Okay."

you- know That's,

that's why 

why you get paid

for this.

and, and please don't ever pay me for 'cause wouldn't be good investment.

Um, you know, but th- the others of us, the fact that we just, we just know because we have at least had it explained to us enough, and we, we don't have the knowledge behind it, we don't have whatever, we don't have... I don't know how the mechanics of it work, but you trust that it will do what you anticipate it to do.

Yeah,

You [00:13:00] know? Um, is there our own action in it? Yeah, in the sense of I have to act on my trust. But the trust itself is already built in. It's, it's ... And I think that's maybe the distinction point is that we look at the a- it's, it's trust itself in that faith is not the action. That's not, that's the gift.

Mm.

It's then acting upon it. You know, if someone says, you know, like, you know, we're sitting here in chairs. That for me, this is always another, another easy analogy in the sense of, um, you know, "Hey, grab a seat." You know, I've never sat... If I haven't sat in this chair before, I have a basic trust if it, if it looks like a chair, it ought to behave like a chair.

Most of the time it's gonna do that. I've had humorous moments. I had I had a friend of mine who sat in a, a chair in a backyard, and it's one of those fun ones with like the little S [00:14:00] curve kind of- Oh, back things, and watching it slowly sink on him was

comedic.

But you don't anticipate, that's not normal.

Um, but you can say I have faith and trust that chair will hold me. It's the demonstration of it.

Mm-hmm.

But it's, but the faith itself is what predicates. That comes before the action of acting as if you have the faith

Interesting. That's helpful. That's a helpful way to think through this, I think.

So kind of building off of that, if we're saved by faith, do our actions here on Earth matter?

I I, would answer that, um, in, in two parts if I can. And I think, so the question, if I'm saved, do our actions here on earth matter? If I'm saved by faith, do my actions matter? I think our understanding of faith, first off, um, going back to what we talked about [00:15:00] previously, what, what, um, role do I play in this faith conversation?

If I, if I think I have anything to do with, um, meriting faith or justification, right, then of course, right? That, that's my view of holding tight to that. But if I, if I truly see my faith as a gift, I'm living in response to that gift, right? Um, so I think that our definition of faith is important. It's that trust, right?

And it's something that's given as a gift, not something that I could produce on my own. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

And then the second part to that, if I, if I believe that faith is a gift, what is my response? Does God, um, need my actions? Do they matter? I would say that they, they matter. I would say that God doesn't need them.

He doesn't, doesn't need, uh, my action. God is, is all-powerful, all-knowing. But the beautiful part about God is even though he's [00:16:00] beyond anything that we can comprehend, he invites us in- Right ... where we can use the things that we've been uniquely gifted with, and we can use our time, our talent, and our treasure to reflect him.

So it's an invitation to use the things that he's uniquely blessed us with. So I think that that's realizing that faith is a gift and that I've been invited to use the things that I've been given to glorify God. Um, it's something I can participate in. It's not that it's needed by God, an invitation.

invitation it.

might be helpful to think of it this way if if what we're talking about if if 

invitation. Yeah. 

transactional Then, 

um, then the question implies, do I-- am I paying something back? Am I earning something from it? if we switch it to faith is relational-

Mm-hmm

then the response becomes more of in love, in relationship with God, how do I respond [00:17:00] to him? And then out of that, how do I then respond to others?

Because when we think about, uh, s- the nature of God's law, you know, you know, look at the Ten Commandments. There's a both a vertical and a horizontal to it. And, and the idea I think imprinted in there is, how do we get our relationship with God right so that also we're able to get our relationship with one another 

right?

So to some degree, what is the purpose of our good works in a sense in what, you know, what we do in this life here and now? Uh, I would suggest that, you know, and, and Lutherans we talk about this in terms of vocation- 

in the sense 

where, you know, does God need anything from me? No. But those that God places in my life do

I love that. That is really helpful. That, that's really, really helpful. And I think, um, maybe a verse that people would point to to say like, "Oh, oh, our works do [00:18:00] matter," maybe in a transactional way is in James when he says, "Faith without works is dead."

But I think the way you're framing it up as, no, it's relational, because what else are we dead in? Sin. So it's interesting that he uses the same word is used. Like you're dead in your sin, and faith without works is dead. But if you and I are-- if we're like friends but we never talk to each other and you don't know anything in my life and I know nothing in your life, it's like a dead relationship.

And, and I would imagine that's more of what James is trying to get at.

Yeah, and that's the interesting one, is I mean, Luther was, um

I know he didn't love James.

we're going there.

Yeah.

you know,

I do love James.

Oh 

we all love

James 

And,

and, and honestly, I mean, Luther picks on it, on James in a way that is unfortunate.

I'll just say it.

Um,

Okay, in historical context, it makes a certain amount of sense because he was pushing back so- deliberately hard on the way in which verses like that in James would get

used Mm-hmm

So he's, he's towing a very [00:19:00] strong line, but honestly, I think he overdoes it. Yeah, this is the moment where you go, "Yeah, the, the Lutheran theology teacher is going to..." You know, we're, we're affirming Luther in many ways, but he, he, remember, he is mortal. Um

I'm right with you. It's

just like, 

mm, you're still gonna, yeah, um, overstate your case in here and there.

And I don't see the conflict the same way between Paul and James that in that moment... And I think in retrospect, you know, if, if we get to have this fun conversation with Luther in heaven, and then boy, that will be entertaining. 

you know, 

my guess is gonna be, he's gonna temper it a bit and go, "Yeah, yeah, yeah."

You know, probably had a conversation with James himself, who said,

Mart

Martin." "Martin, come on, please." You know, it's not, it... Because it, it's, it's diagnosing it. It's looking at Like the same way you're talking about the friendship.

Mm-hmm. know,

Uh, you're, you're saying something is a friendship, but you look at the [00:20:00] nature of it and say, "Is it truly a friendship?"

You know, we're saying this is faith, but if you look at the nature of it and what it produces- because a healthy faith just by its own is going to produce-

Yeah.

good works. Yeah. It's, it's, you don't have to y- No one should be demanding it from you. That's not a demand. It's, it's just a natural course of the healthiness of that relationship with God.

It's going to produce.

Yeah. 

It's the vine that we're attached Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. Cool. Okay, so my last question is 


Avoiding Legalism & Licentiousness
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how do you keep from swinging too far in, in either direction?

'Cause I think when whenever we're talking about works and faith, it, it-- we can either go all the way to legalism, kind of what we have been talking about of we must do XYZ, or licentiousness, this idea of cheap grace. I don't have to do anything. What I do doesn't matter. Um, therefore, I can do whatever I want.

So how do you kind of walk that line?

I'll just 

come back to [00:21:00] the is it transactional or is

it Mm-hmm.

'Cause I think i-if, it's a category that I think we understand. You know, we have relationship.

We have friendships. We have relationships with our own families. You know, if you-- And I know, you know, students will some of the time, maybe they treat their parents as if it's transactional. "If you-- If I do this, you'll give me this." Yeah. And you 

don't No

No, Not, not here. Um,

and as 

Not here. And, and as a parent, you try to, you know, work past that.

But it-- that's not the long-term goal. The long-term goal is the relational, where, you know, I'm at the point now, like I am not going to physically deal with my boys because they would physically deal with me.

Mm. Um,

it just can't-- you know, my youngest is a junior black belt. I'm like, "Nope, not

Oh.

Um, but, but if it, if it's relational, then 

it's 

not because I can make you do something. It's because I ask and you desire to. So the way we ought to be framing this is [00:22:00] not a legalism in the sense that I'm going to do it because I'm afraid of God in the sense that he's gonna punish me, but because I love him and I desire to do good, and thus I also avoid the other extreme of, Paul talks about it, um, should we sin all the more that grace might abound?

You know, I'm, I'm probably butchering that a little bit, but the ideas like-

no means.

Yeah. No, I know. the, it's the fun part. Like, it's like, "Hey, God, you love forgiving, and I love sinning." "What great combination You 

What a combination." You know? That's, 

that's, that'll be the quote of the- the episode. wow

but 

mean, it-- there's a reality to it. I mean, that's who we are.

Yes. Totally.

But if you keep it in the relational

Mm-hmm

Then out of love, you desire to remake yourself and say, "You know what? I'm, I'm tempted to this. If it was all about me, this is what I'd do."

Mm-hmm.

But the same way you don't treat a friend in front of you that way-

[00:23:00] Right

we seek to desire and, and try to reshape that within our own lives in our relationship with God as well.

well

Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's really helpful.

yeah,

The-- Yeah, I- I'm imagining with the summer theology series, somehow, some way, your theology teachers are gonna come back to the parable of the prodigal son.

Like,

that's about it s

it ... I'm sure it's gonna come up, Christ alone, grace alone. Somehow, some way, it'll, it'll come back. But, uh, that is a clear example of this idea of license and legalism, and it should be the story of the two lost sons, And both were lost for different reasons, whether it's license or legalism, and the father brings them home.

It's relationship. exactly what you're talking about, and it's being motivated by that, that trust that, um, God is good, God is, is with me. Um, and I, I want others to experience this too. Um, so I, I think it's, yeah, it's leading and, and, um, responding out of that [00:24:00] relationship first.

Yeah.

Awesome. Well, you guys, thank you so much. This was phenomenally helpful, just really clarifying. Thanks for going into some places that maybe are tricky to talk about, but I think you guys nailed it, so I appreciate it

I just loved hearing about the grapevines in the backyard. That was amazing. Yes. Thank you, Dr. 

Oh

yeah.

know. Thanks, guys 

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