How to Create Safe Spaces in Leadership with Jeff Giagnocavo

Never Been Promoted Podcast with Thomas Helfrich


Dive into the inspiring world of entrepreneurship and personal growth with Jeff Giagnocavo on the Never Been Promoted podcast, hosted by Thomas Helfrich. Jeff, an entrepreneur with a rich history in family business and self-improvement, shares his journey from starting his first business as a teenager to navigating the challenges and triumphs of entrepreneurship. His story is not just about business success but also about overcoming personal adversity, offering listeners a deep and meaningful perspective on leadership and resilience.



About Jeff Giagnocavo:


Jeff's entrepreneurial spirit was ignited early in life, leading him to build and sell his first business before fully stepping into the entrepreneurial world. Beyond his business acumen, Jeff shares his powerful personal story of overcoming childhood sexual abuse and how it shaped his approach to leadership and life. His insights are not just about business strategies but also about creating safe spaces for personal growth and healing, making him a unique voice in the entrepreneurial landscape.



In this episode, Thomas and Jeff explore:

• The Journey of an Entrepreneur: From Early Beginnings to Diverse Business Ventures
• Overcoming Personal Adversity: Jeff's Courageous Story of Surviving and Thriving Beyond Childhood Abuse
• Leadership with Empathy: Creating Safe and Supportive Environments in the Workplace

Key Takeaways:

• Resilience in Entrepreneurship: Jeff's story exemplifies the power of resilience and the ability to turn personal challenges into strengths.
• Empathetic Leadership: The importance of creating an environment where individuals feel safe to share and be themselves, enhancing team dynamics and productivity.
• Personal Growth: Jeff's journey underscores the significance of self-awareness and personal development in achieving both professional and personal success.

"True leadership is about creating a space where people can be their authentic selves and find support in their personal and professional journeys." — Jeff Giagnocavo



CONNECT WITH JEFF GIAGNOCAVO:

Website (Company): https://thejeffg.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffgiagnocavo/



CONNECT WITH THOMAS:


X (Twitter): https://twitter.com/thelfrich | https://twitter.com/nevbeenpromoted 
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/hovienko | https://www.facebook.com/neverbeenpromoted 
Website: https://www.neverbeenpromoted.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/neverbeenpromoted/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@neverbeenpromoted
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thomashelfrich/
Email: t@instantlyrelevant.com

Transcript

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Welcome to the Never Been Promoted podcast with Thomas Helfrich. Get ready for a thrilling adventure as we uncover entrepreneurial journeys and life changing business insights every week. And now your host, Thomas.

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Welcome back to another episode of  Never Been Promoted podcast. And I thank you for joining today. If this is your first time, good for you. You get ten dad points. You'll learn at the end of the episode how to spend those. My kids have billions. They still haven't figured it out. But if this is your time to come back and you're once again listening, you rock. 50 bonus points for you. I say this in fun today because we have a cool guest. It's going to really talk about leadership and entrepreneurship and Jeff Giagnocavo, did I say it right?

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You get 100 dad points for that. It is. Jeff Giagnocavo.

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I'd like to cash those hundred points in. The dad points for anyone who's listening is my way of just saying that you did good. And I want you to know that. And if you are a dad, you know exactly what I'm talking about. If you're a child, you're like, I hate those things because I never figured out how to spend them. And if you're neither a dad or a child, you're not human because you have to be one or the other. Jeff, thank you for joining me today with us. We're going to talk about another things of leadership and other things, but take a few moments, introduce yourself to everyone on here on the podcast.

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Yeah. Name is Jeff Giagnocavo. As we have said, a couple of know, Thomas, in the pre show, you said, your name sounds like you just jumbled up a bunch of letters. That's actually what happened on island. We've, one of my uncles tracked that down and we have like the logbook entry where that second G got added in. But the old country way was, you know, I come from a family of entrepreneurs, really on both sides, more so, my father's side, but my mom's side as well. And I was steeped in it, man. I saw it happen. I saw what it looked like, the good and the bad and the success and the struggle that came with it. 16 or leading up to 16, I wanted a car. I wanted freedom. And so I started cutting grass and washing cars in the neighborhood that we lived in and built that up into a little something and then sold that off to friends so I could go buy a car in one fell swoop. And that was the first business I built and sold. And I've only worked two years on a w two in my life. The rest of the time, I've been an entrepreneur, a bunch of different businesses I've built things, sold things, had things fail, had to leave, and things that I thought would be great and weren't. And so the journey is not that much different. There is a part of my journey that is unique in the fact of, as a person, had to work on myself a lot because of what I was given as a child. I'm a victor over the grave of the childhood sexual abuse that happened in my life. And I talk about that in my book. And the path I'm on now is to really challenge people who lead other people to create this space for others. The world's a broken place, man, and we need people to stand out and be living examples of courage for others where that's hard.

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Yeah. And I think even extending that. Thank you for sharing, because I. According to your book and your passion and belief in what you're doing right now, and it's not even open about. It's creating the safe places for people to be who they are. And if you can do that in a work environment, because a lot of people can't be who they are at home for whatever reasons, through marriage or roommates or being a child of whatever it is, you need a place to be yourself. And if you can provide that as a leader, you've done something amazing for somebody besides pay them. Talk about your book a little bit. So it's a bestseller on Amazon and it's still on the rise. And maybe dive into that if you want to set up a little bit on how you got there. Just some examples and wisdom along the way, but set up the book and what inspired it and take us on that journey.

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Yeah. As an entrepreneur, I've got that disease. I think most have, where it's, hey, I can do this. There's this thing over here. Let's go do that. And so I've always had multiple irons in the fire, which I think in one way is good. Right. Because you're expanding, you're pushing your talents to new levels and trying to kind of bust through new ceilings, et cetera. But for me, it's always focused on that main street type business, that brick and mortar business, the experience business, lots of touch points, orchestrating things. And I've done some consulting over the years. And look, there's a million consultants out there, and I still do that. I still derive income from that. But really, I'm looking to make change. I'm looking to make impact that I've never had. I had a coach 18 months ago say, what do you want? What do you want in life? A lot of people answer that with the usual things, success. I want to be able to give back. I want a legacy. I want for my family to be set up. I have and want all those things, too. But truly what I want, I want this hole in my heart that's been ripped open as a child. That soul of a kid that was robbed with his BMX bike at the age of seven, walking down the street with his little girlfriend Jackie, hand in hand, walking to school. I want that soul of that kid put back. And I realize there's a lot of people that want that, too. And it's getting there. Just talking about it, I think, is important.

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Yeah. Can you get it back?

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I think so. Soon enough I do this enough. These moments are great because I know somebody's going to hear it. And I know somebody as a survivor who can shift into that victor over the grave of that abuse, because that's where you'll put it. You don't forget about it. People go visit graves, right? You don't forget about it. I use another analogy. This kind of abuse I look at like a suitcase. Sometimes it's a big old 100 pound ruck sack. Other days it's an easy clutch that's carried right. And all things in between, you never forget about it. But that victor over the grave for me is where I'm at for sure. Being able to speak like this for sure. But it doesn't go away. And for me, the abuse was around computers and video games. The mid late 80s was fun times for that, right? Like Nintendo Duck Hunt, Super Mario Brothers, the first one, that kind of stuff. And to this day, sitting in front of a computer is difficult. Video games are out, but I don't let it hold me back. There's things that you have to deal with, but I don't let it hold me back. Yeah.

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And I think if it's something that's never whole, but it's repaired, and the repair might just be coming from helping one other that gets it. If you've taken your passion for leadership and for showing others to persevere, the idea of resilience comes up so much in entrepreneurship, and it's usually just like, oh, it was hard, but you were faced with a bigger challenge coming over that like, oh, how do I change my marketing plan seems minimal compared to how do I just go on with life versus. And how do I become something that I'm not owned by something that wasn't even my fault decades ago, possibly. I think if you think about the entrepreneurial lesson of no matter what your problems are, just know that others are really kicking ass out there and they've faced way more than you have. And if you can't see that, then you need to turn the juice on a little, because I think it's just an excuse to do that for you in your book. Tell me how you set this up. And me, the title, the space for leadership. So bring that kind of into the conversation a bit.

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Yeah. So I try to speak in themes and give stories and try to give things that people can relate to and connect to. And I want to clarify one thing. Everybody goes through life. I don't think anybody goes through life unscathed. Right. You could be someone like my business partner in my retail business as an example. Man, this is a great guy. Great father, great leader, fantastic business partner. Mom and dad present. Three other brothers. No, two other brothers. Just like that mayberry on Main street, idyllic upbringing. Right. You could have all of that, and there could still be that one moment that has reframed you in a negative way and impacted you in a negative way. And I don't want to weigh that out against you. It's your. So just know you're not alone. That's the one thing I will demand that people hear. You aren't alone. I know I felt alone, and I know I shared this story for the first time in a room of 60 people a year ago at an event. And tomorrow I go back and kind of have a reunion, if you will, at that event. And it's pretty cool that I challenge myself. If I don't share this publicly now, I won't because I was so teetering at that point about this part of my life and sharing it, and I took that step, and it's been fantastic since. And again, you're not alone. There's a lot of shame that comes with this kind of stuff, and it insulates yourself. And you're not alone. We may have different scars, we may have different wounds, but there is the ability to commune with others, if you'll allow it. And I think so many times that inability to allow it results in negative leadership where you lash out. So you touched on, yeah, you can use a new marketing plan, but is it more about your leadership, and is it about what's inside that's affecting your leadership?

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Exactly.

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And so the book really kind of brings that into focus.

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And I like that you said, like this, mine might not be any to you. It's just as much as maybe what I dealt with and the idea of even just this podcast and the book that I wrote with entrepreneurship is you do feel very alone as an entrepreneur and regardless of what your life experiences are, and you could be crushing it as an entrepreneur and still feel very alone because you may have given up time with kids or your spouse or friends or whatever it is, love for golf or whatever it is, it doesn't matter. My point is you may have given up something to get there and have all the success you thought and feel very alone. And so I think part of my motivation is to help people not feel like they are. They have a resource out there to do that. You telling your story, there's a lot that people are going to relate to that, and a lot have not had the courage or had the maybe environment to be able to talk about it or don't want to ever just. But knowing that someone else is out there doing it might be enough. So I applaud you for this. In the space for leadership, right? If someone's going to read this, what's the key takeaway? You're going to drive for this?

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Yeah. Let me tell it through a story, if I can, of course. So, as a leader, here's what I would challenge you to be in the culture and the trust that I would ask for you to create with your people. So the day before Thanksgiving, we had a legit, full blown knife fight in our high school where my youngest son goes, I saw the video. I got it through Snapchat. Right? Pretty intense stuff. So imagine that family the day before. Thank God it happened. I would not want it to happen, but thank God it did. Before a major holiday, right? Each camp can cool down type of thing. It doesn't have to escalate. But imagine being that family over that holiday weekend. Now imagine being mom and dad having to come back to work that Monday morning. What frame of mind are they in? And so, as a leader, as a business owner, you have to ask yourself, would I be that kind of business owner, that kind of leader, where those people could come to me safely with confidence that they wouldn't get fired, that they wouldn't hear grief, that they wouldn't get demoted or whatever and be able to have a conversation and say, hey, I'm really embarrassed to say this. I don't know what my son was thinking, but here's what happened. And so this means my son's expelled. We're suspended for the moment. Sue eventually was expelled. So that's going to change where he goes to school and what we do in the daytime and how I'm thinking about him. I'm going to have to involve a lawyer. There's going to be meetings, so I'm going to have to leave work early. I may have to ask for an extra break to take a phone call. How do you embrace that as a leader? And most importantly, do they come to you or do they suffer in silence and push through as they're in just this immense. That's a pretty big crisis as a family, right? It's not on the level of like childhood cancer or losing a child, but it's up there. It's a heavy crisis.

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I mean, it's got it all embarrassment. It's got, like, judgment of you. It's got it all. And if anybody got hurt, and really.

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Thankfully no one was hurt, but weapons were out, it was as bad as bad could be without somebody being hurt.

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Yeah.

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Who are you in that moment as that leader of those people? I think that's the ultimate test of leadership. Right. Like, we have to remember we get the majority of waking hours from our people. They spend more time with us than their kids.

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Yeah. You touch on something that's extreme. And I think if you just even take it to a very common things, like everyone's going to lose a parent. Everyone's going to, there's a lot. Half the population, at least the US, is going to get divorced. You're going to have kids who don't talk to you if you have a disgruntled child. It could be even simple as I have a neighbor that every time I pull him from work, I can't afford to move because I don't want to be where I'm at. These things actually really weigh on people where. How awful. And you said at the beginning of the show how broken the world is as a leader. I know personally, I try to create a space that's fun, creative, focused, because you can't have it all disarray. You got to have people working towards something so you have purpose. I love this idea of a leader. So maybe step into the how to maybe. What are the maybe top one or two things you should and shouldn't do as a leader to do this?

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Yeah. I think for me it's sharing with the people. You lead your team, who you are as a human, why you've maybe done things in the past and what that's been about. Maybe you don't need to share every aspect of your personal life, but you need to be able to relate to them. I guess it would have been maybe March of last year. I shared with my team my abuse, and I just said, hey, I'm going to be getting on podcasts. I'm going to be writing this book, and I may have to do a podcast at my store office. And so you may hear something from underneath the closed door, because they walk right by my office and not that they eavesdrop in or anything.

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Oh, they do. They're definitely listening. There's no doubt. If someone's whispering and talking to themselves, like, what is he doing in there?

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Yeah, I connected with them. I found a new connection with my sales manager. As a result of that, one of my other guys shared something personal that he was going through. I won't divulge it because this is public, and I'm a public figure in the fact that people can track down my businesses, and I'm not afraid to say what they are. But there was that connection, right? I want to be respectful to these guys, right? But there was that connection that was made. And that first one is that how to is you have to find a way to show that you're not perfect and that you are working from a broken foundation of some sorts, that your foundation isn't this perfect example of what it should be, because you're not getting that out of people. How can we? It's just not who we are as people. And so that vulnerability is there. And then explaining, like, hey, here's for me, the second one. What is that trigger point? For me, it's words and actions, right? Because the abuse for me was. There was a moment in time. My family was at my abuser's house. There were family, friends of ours was my abuser. And we're there. I believe it was like a holiday gathering or a birthday party. And the wife of my abuser says, at the moment, as we're all gathered, he's bugging his daughter. Not in a negative way, like, not in a creepy or pedophile way, but just bugging his daughter says, is he molesting you? Now, for an adult to say those words and for two other adults to hear those words, and the third adult, as the abuser, to hear it said out loud, you would think there'd be a moment of pause. You would think somebody would say something as adults in the room, but there was nothing. And so when those words were said, that should have sounded alarm bells and there were no actions taken. I realized that about two years ago. That's a big one.

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For me, the wife of the abuser had said it to her daughter just in jest.

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Yeah, the abuser was kind of just poking, nudging their daughter. Just kind of like how dads do, right? I kind of go up to my sons and I'll give them a little shoulder shrug just to remind them of who pop is. Right? Yeah, it was that kind of more just fun thing. But it went on longer than you.

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All sit there going, yes, he is right.

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And for me it was like this was here in my throat, but I couldn't get it out. I couldn't get the words out. And it was the whole car ride home and it was for the next couple of days. And then I just realized, I'm here, I guess I'm in this. But that lost opportunity of actions answering the words, and words and actions relating to each other, I realized, became this real foundational thing. So the second thing would be first, vulnerability, long windedly. The second thing would be understand yourself. And where is it when your people around you have a misstep, a failure, an accident, the outcome is not perfect. How's that relate to you and the fiber of your being and how do you respond? Right. Because ultimately, if you're responding in a negative way, that's a failure upon leadership.

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Yeah. And how old were you when this was all going on? I just kind of set the idea.

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Of it, seven to twelve.

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Seven to twelve. And how did it end?

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So we moved from Canada where I was born, when I was eleven. Unfortunately, that family chose to have a couple of vacations here in the states and some additional instances happened here in Pennsylvania where we moved to. So seven to twelve.

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And then did it become somebody that you just finally came up to your parents or something, like told somebody or did it just go because of distance?

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Distance and honestly entering puberty. That just wasn't this person's thing anymore.

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Do you ever confront that person?

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No. So this gets into the deeper part of it. They've since passed. They did seek justice. Sadly, a couple of other young men ended up committing suicide as a result of their abuse and being unable to handle it. And so this, I believe, directly ties into leadership. I want people to think about, we hear often it doesn't happen to us. It happens for us. Right, as leaders. And so for me, I began to think a while back, well, why did that abuse happen? And I look at the other two young men that committed suicide and I look at myself and I'm not going to sit here and say I wasn't there myself. I've been there over the years a number of times. But I feel I was put in that path to be here today because I got the strong shoulders to talk about it, carry it and be open and help other people. And I know that that's happened already. I've had that feedback already directly. And so we're used, I believe we're used by God for intentional purposes and faith. I think the statement around faith is your conviction of faith. Belief in faith is answered with this one sentence, God will do no harm. That's a heavy sentence when you really begin to think about it.

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It is. Please ignore it.

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Yeah. I mean, how do you weigh that against a child with childhood cancer or a family that gets wiped out by a tornado? They lose everything. I can't answer that. For anybody listening. All I can do is share with you what I believe, what I believe my purpose is. And as a leader, I think that's where we need to go.

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Yeah.

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What is our purpose?

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It's not like it happened at age 15. It's taken you to adulthood, right, to get there. And the faith thing is interesting. It's the last chapter of my book is have faith. And I wouldn't have written the book without a found faith journey. And I'm not knocking on people's doors, selling Bibles or asking you to kind of join a call, but I understand your statement a lot more than I would have two years ago. Say it that way. This podcast wouldn't be here. I wouldn't be trying to do the things without some faith. And one thing that came up the other day just from a really good idea is you're finding happiness through purpose, something that's been a big void probably in your life. And I don't want to presume, but many people feel this, yours maybe is much larger. You described a hole in your heart. If that brings you happiness, there's no talk of money, there's no talk of financial or stuff or things or brilliant experiences. The happiness is around the purpose of finding hole for you and others. And I think if you think of, you're not going to be remembered by what you got, it's what you gave. And it seems like on a path where you have significant influence to be had. Like you're just starting.

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And I'm trying to honor if I believe I was put in this path to now be here today, what is the next path?

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Yeah. When you're on it, God meets you where you are, right? And so you're like, hey, I could have taken that 20 years ago. But sometimes you need different life experiences and have things happen to you before you get there. So if you're out there and this is around leadership, even more so than just, I think just the small nuances. If you notice on a daily level, just a change in somebody or they just seem distant at times, just ask them privately. And that might be enough to be like the child that the kids, young adults who took their own lives because of it. That might make a difference if someone just noticed that you weren't really all there and say, if there's anything you want to talk about and just say, listen, if you need anything, let me know. Just actually listen. Be empathetic and look for changes in people, good or bad, and be there. And I think leadership sometimes is just in that subtleties of noticing and not being so focused about money or whatever results are or scoring a goal or playing the piano. Right. Or whatever it is, just notice the nuances of another human near you. That's just trying to get through it. All right.

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Yeah, it's interesting. I can imagine some listeners and watchers here of our time together, like, well, that's easy for you guys to say, don't worry about money. I need money.

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I get that. That's not important.

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Okay. But the thing I would challenge back with is realize it's a tool and that they print more of this stuff every day. Money is for intents and purposes in our nation right now and would seem to be for the future. It's really infinite.

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It's abundant. It is quite abundant. Yeah.

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And so it's out there. People acquire wealth and acquire money and opportunity because they create a connection and they're additive iPhones. No one knew they needed an iPhone until they were basically told they needed one and life could not be lived without it. It solved so many problems. One little device in the palm of your hand, it became this immensely additive thing to our lives. You didn't have to carry around the CD player, you didn't have to have the separate phone and the MP3 player, and it was really easy to get your music and you no longer needed your CD library. And it changed the course of society. Now we could debate for a whole couple of other shows worth the goods and bads of how it changed society.

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We could debate apple versus Android, which I'm on, I'm green Android guy. I'm a great. Oh, God.

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Yeah.

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We're not going to get into how Apple is just too arrogant. I could do a whole podcast on why Apple versus. But you're right. Can you imagine, let's say, because of this need in this digital world we live in, from a leadership to say, let's completely disconnect it one day and go take just from, as maybe a parent, I don't think leadership, just in terms of business leadership of. I told my wife the other day, I was like, man, it would be amazing if we could just go, literally take our family, no phones, no contact, and be off completely for a week and have no expectations how freeing we would feel in the first couple of days. But how freeing it would be by Friday, right? And I think taking leadership moments to kind of disrupt the norm, the needs, with the idea of having a higher connection level and whatever that means in your world, that is someplace where I think that creates the space that you describe to have the meaningful connections to break through, to allow someone to share when there's not the distraction of technology or work or maybe the hypothetical weird neighbor you might have.

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Right.

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It's all that.

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Go ahead, please, just quickly. And again, I'm like you. I get this from my maternal grandfather, who was a devout Christian and believer in God in Christ, and was just an amazing example of a man here on earth that was here for purpose, that he would not be the guy to talk about faith. He wouldn't be the guy to push it on you. But I just feel compelled to say this much about what Christianity is. It's a religion that, with the New Testament removed the need for the higher leaders within the society. You as a person can go download an app now and have all the text and all the learnings in the palm of your hand. And that's unlike any other religion out there. And there's goodness in that, because it is that one in one connection. And so take from that what you will. You don't have to go to a physical place. You can just be present with a higher authority. And really, it is. And a great place to start is proverbs. There's 31 of them. You got one a day for a month. Great lessons, fantastic entrepreneurial lessons, leadership lessons. Just read one a day. That's it. See how you feel afterwards.

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Absolutely.

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Should be reading anyway, right?

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You should do some kind of reading. Actually, for my Christmas present, I'm not one who needs gifts. We were in a store in some little tiny town here in Georgia, and I would tell you, I can't pronounce the name of the city. I tried so many times. But the point is, there's like this daily devotions book, and I was like, buy that for me. I want that for Christmas. And so I read it and sometimes it takes me, I got to catch up three days because I'll forget. But those little things like that, there's these little life lessons. It just kind of set your mood for the day just to be a little bit better to somebody else and take your faith out of it. Just look at stuff and go, that's a good idea. And take that into your leadership piece of it. What I'd like you to do, maybe now if you don't mind, is you've written the book, take a few moments to say who should maybe read it and where they should go get that book.

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Yeah. So really anyone who leads other people that would have hurt in their life. So this could be, that's like everyone.

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On the planet pretty much at some point.

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Yeah, I mean it's really pointed at business, but truly it could be that person. Because not only did I author it, I had invited in thematically within the space of the book, I invited in twelve other authors to take my chapter and reflect on it through their lens of life and their experiences and be additive to that chapter. And so it's not just me speaking, it's us speaking. And we're all pulling in the same direction of acknowledging the world's a hurt place and that as leaders we're challenged to care for those we lead and be empathetic to it. And if we keep focus on that, we get more people pulling together with us than we can ever imagine. You can get it on Amazon. Space for leadership.

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Is the title correct?

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Space for yes sir. Yep. You can get on Amazon or you can go to my website, thejeffg.com slash book and there's links to go over to Amazon or there's a link to buy an autograph copy and I'll mail you.

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Nice. It's good to know as I get my book set it. I was going to ask you that question offline. Can you get a. It's quite a thing if you're an entrepreneur looking to build a book. No, it's a long process.

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Maybe as we transition just a little value add to you and anybody listening. I have a really great promotions folder link for my book. So if you're into a book and you want to market your own book and get your own book up, reach out as a result of this podcast and I'll send you that promotions folder which also has like a six week run up to marketing the book.

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That's great.

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Real tactical. Yeah, I'll send it to you for sure.

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I'll take any information to learn, see how other people do it. I'm always on the zero to hero path, it seems like. Or is it hero to zero? I don't even know. I feel like I'm doing a lot of stuff that I don't need to do to make it up. Listen, transition kind of towards as we kind of close our time together. What's another podcast you like to listen to that maybe other people should listen to?

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So he's a polarizing figure, but I love his train of thought. It's Jordan Peterson. I like the way that he really seems to want to understand the sides of the discussion. And for some people, that may be hard to hear, and you may immediately make judgments about me, and that's okay. I'll go to sleep just fine. But that's one I like. I like his show quite a bit for that aspect of things. Other ones that I listen to often would be. Just went right off the top of my head.

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It's the one about memory. Just had to throw it out. I had to do it. Had to do.

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That's right. Yeah, memory. So, yeah, Jordan show is great. I do listen to Rogan. I like his ability to maintain an interesting conversation for hours on end, which I think is cool about podcasting because it's a medium where news just gives us two to three minutes of a panel of people arguing with each other. This space is cool because if you want, you could dig deep into a space. You could dig deep into a topic.

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You can choose to listen to it and move on if you want to. The next episode. What's a book? What's like a must read leadership business book for me.

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So Dan Kennedy is like my hero in direct response, marketing, business, entrepreneurship. This is a guy whose life ebbed and flowed from as a kid. He saw wealth, he saw poverty. He saw wealth again. He saw poverty and just rode that roller coaster along with the family. So if you don't know Dan Kennedy, you should. As an entrepreneur, he's got a whole series of no BS books. There's some predecessors to that. So I like getting the bedrock foundational stuff. So that would be, for him, ultimate marketing plan and the ultimate sales letter. Those books predate the no BS series of books, but those are great books, too. I have an entire shelf of Dan Kennedy books down in my work office downstairs.

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That's great. And I'll definitely check some of those out. I have to go audible. I don't have time to read right now. It's terrible. Audible lets me fill some space. And I feel like I'm almost, like, decompressing when I'm listening to books, which is nice.

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Yeah. If you want a little life hack, if you're really into learning and self guided learning, audible and reading at the same time, same book, that's a good idea. You engage, really. And if you're touching the pages, you're engaging three senses, touch sight by reading and sound, and it just gets that muscle of your brain or organ, your brain organ working that much.

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Imagine if they added little smell to a books. You're like, oh, that reminds me of Dan. That's a space for leadership right there. Oh, my God, that thing is pungent. Here's my final question. I try to end on something on inspiration, and there's only one right answer to this. And we'll see how you answer. Have you ever been promoted in a w two job?

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Oh, in a w two job? Yeah, as a kid. I mean, I worked in restaurants as a kid. Dishwasher to line cook to main shift cook.

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I'm not going to qualify that. You can still be in the club. You can still be in the club.

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Yeah, in a w two. No, I tried. And that's actually what ended that journey. The corporate world was awful, and it was like, I'm seeing these chuckleheads who just kiss butt and brown nose and add no value. Yeah. That's why I was only two years of that.

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Yeah, I'm not sure I added value either, but they just did it better than me to get the promotion. So I was like, oh, damn. I don't add value and they don't, and they're better at that. I think I'm going to go on my own. All right. I'm not sure that's true. Listen, thank you so much for just taking the moments and the time and diving into this and writing this book for others. I think it helps you. I know it does. I can tell just through our conversations, but also knowing that it's intended to help others first. Anybody who wants to help Jeff, read it, because if you do, you're helping him and yourself to do this one more time. Name of the book, where should they get it and where else would you like to leave the audience?

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Yeah, we've talked about me having businesses and the things that I do. Vjfg.com is kind of like that. Choose your own adventure novel about me. Right back in the day, you read, like, go to page twelve if you want to see the hardy boys, jump in the cave. And page 37 if you want them to run across town. So that's your choose your own adventure off of the things we've talked about here. But vgfg.com book, which is on that same site, that's the place to go. You can click over to Amazon and get it. I can get you an autographed copy, come back to that book page no matter what, and throw your name, email and order number in there. And then I'll get you some bonuses just for buying my book. I did a series of calls, bonus calls as a result of launching the book. I'll send you those videos. I've got a series of business building stuff for entrepreneurs. I'll send you that. And if you want, you can jump on a call with me as well.

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And so if someone wants to hire you to speak or give a talk or join, they go to the vjefg.com. That's a good way to get hold of you as well, correct?

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That's a great way to get a hold of me. Yes, sir.

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Well, thank you so much and everybody who's made it to this point in the podcast, thank you for listening. And if this was your first time, I hope you do come back. And if you've been here before, you rock. Thank you for coming again. I'd like to thank Jeff once again for coming on the show and telling his story and writing the space for leadership book. And until next time we meet again, go out there. Who cares if you've ever been promoted, but just get out there and go unleash your entrepreneur. Thanks for listening.

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Thanks for listening to Never Been Promoted with Thomas Helfrich. Make sure to check the show notes for our guest contact information and any relevant links. Connect with Thomas personally at neverbendpromoted.com.