The Power of Micro-Mentoring in Business by Dr. Melissa Steach

Never Been Promoted Podcast with Thomas Helfrich

Venturing into the realm of corporate psychology, Dr. Melissa Steach has emerged as a transformative figure in enhancing workplace dynamics and leadership strategies. Her journey, marked by profound insights into human behavior, delves deep into the heart of organizational cultures, uncovering the critical elements that drive successful leadership and employee engagement. What makes her approach unique? It's her ability to blend academic rigor with real-world pragmatism, offering solutions that are not only effective but also sustainable. Discover the pivotal experiences that shaped her methods and the unforeseen challenges that led to breakthrough innovations in her field.


About Dr. Melissa Steach:

Holding a PhD in Industrial and Organizational Psychology, Dr. Steach has dedicated her career to refining the interface between employees and their workplaces. She specializes in creating environments that foster psychological safety and promote productivity. Her work extends beyond simple consultancy; she constructs comprehensive, actionable frameworks that help organizations from startups to Fortune 500 companies achieve and sustain peak performance. With a keen focus on leadership development, conflict resolution, and organizational change, Dr. Steach not only advises but transforms the core operations of businesses, making them more humane and innovative.


In this episode, Thomas and Dr. Steach discuss:

• Transformative Leadership: How to cultivate leaders who inspire and sustain change.
• Building Resilient Teams: Strategies for enhancing team cohesion and resilience in challenging times.
• The Psychology of Workplace Dynamics: Understanding and harnessing the psychological underpinnings of employee behavior to boost engagement and productivity.
• Navigating Organizational Change: Effective tactics for managing transitions and maintaining momentum in evolving business environments.

Key Takeaways:

• Transformative Leadership

How to cultivate leaders who inspire and sustain change.

• Building Resilient Teams

Strategies for enhancing team cohesion and resilience in challenging times.

• The Psychology of Workplace Dynamics

Understanding and harnessing the psychological underpinnings of employee behavior to boost engagement and productivity.

• Navigating Organizational Change

Effective tactics for managing transitions and maintaining momentum in evolving business environments.

"Empowerment begins where understanding deepens." — Dr. Melissa Steach


CONNECT WITH DR. MELISSA STEACH:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melissasteach/

Website:https://www.drsteach.com/

CONNECT WITH THOMAS:

X (Twitter): https://twitter.com/thelfrich | https://twitter.com/nevbeenpromoted 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/hovienko | https://www.facebook.com/neverbeenpromoted

Transcript

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Welcome to the Never Been Promoted podcast with Thomas Helfrich. Get ready for a thrilling adventure as we uncover entrepreneurial journeys and life changing business insights every week. And now your host, Thomas.
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Welcome back to another episode of Never Been Promoted. This is a podcast, YouTube channel, whatever you want to call it, me talking to camera, and maybe you're listening, but you know, it is about us helping entrepreneurs get better at entrepreneurship. It's hard to be an entrepreneur. I found it harder to be in a corporate world because I never got promoted, hence the name of the show. But I find it very difficult to be an entrepreneur at times. And I found really good resolve, really good advancement through micro mentoring, through learning from others, from their journeys, their failures, their successes, the challenges they did or did not overcome. All this, and that's what we bring to you on the show, is a way for you to get better entrepreneurship every day by listening to just one, just to get one thing from our guests. And if this is your first time here, thank you for trying it out. Stick with us. It's fun. We try to do some humor and I hope you come back many times. And if you've been here before, collect your dad points, put them in your pocket. You know, I'm going to tell you one day where to spend them. If you are listening and you haven't done this already, please give a five star review on Apple, Spotify, Amazon. Those things are super important for us, for the community we're building, for the, for the guests that we have on so they get more exposure. So that's really appreciated. And maybe give the YouTube a subscribe as well. I've never been. Now that I've done a shameless plug for myself, I think it's time to move on to our guest who is a doctor, Melissa Steach. Now, she's a best selling author. She is a psychologist, an ICF leadership coach, UCF finder, mma. No, not true. But she's a keynote speaker. I mean, she's done so much stuff and I believe even like a film career, too. So I'm not. Can't you call you a doctor all day? Because then I'll ask you for advice differently. But Melissa, you want to say hi to everybody?
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Hey, everybody. Thank you so much. I feel like this was just a round of true or false. And I'm not a medical doctor. I am an industrial organizational psychologist. So I can research you to health and coach you to health. But if you have a medical emergency, please don't call me. Not a UCF fighter, but did grow up in a very rough neighborhood, so I can definitely handle myself and throw down, gladly. I have not had to fight in many, many, many years. But I was that kid who got into a fight almost every single day. A physical fight. True, true story. Which led me to learn how to communicate with words because I really needed to, because I just couldn't go through life physically fighting everything well.
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And I think off camera told me, you grew up in Alabama, so she's not like, you know, Rockin Brentwood, California.
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No, no, I grew up in housing projects in Alabama. Yeah.
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And you come out surviving. So when you people all like, whatever, you're like, no idea. Okay, you have no.
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You have no idea.
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People were lucky to have trailers where we lived. Okay. Like, that was like private living.
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Yeah. No, actually, you know what? I remember being a little girl. It's so funny you say that. I remember being a little girl and seeing nicer trailer parks and thinking, man, those people haven't made. Literally, it's all relative.
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100% is. I mean, ironically, in Alabama, I can make a joke. There is a lot of relative things that go on. But anyway, so is that an Arkansas joke?
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Yeah, that's pretty easy. Low hanging joke. Sorry to go to our friends.
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No, it's not exactly. There's like 150 people there, and I hope one of them is listed, actually Alabama, by the way, I'm in Georgia, outside of the cop that pulled us over going to Florida. Pretty cool state, actually. Terrible history and background, but it's actually a pretty cool state. It's really pretty. Way better than I thought expected. So I just want to get pre golf around Trent Jones golf trail. That's, that's my only.
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Oh, it's beautiful. And then do you go to the belt line?
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I have not. We've been there one time, so.
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Oh, it's wonderful. What are you waiting for life to happen?
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I guess this podcast to take over something. I don't know. We're gonna.
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You should do it in the middle of the belt before we get though.
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Into your background, how you're in LA and we're gonna talk about some fun things. We're doing that. Let's do a little icebreaker. Okay.
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Do we need one?
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If you were gonna be one villain in any, any movie ever, which villain are you?
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Oh, gosh, that's a good one. Especially because I love superheroes. I would be Magneto.
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Magneto?
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Yeah.
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Interesting. Tell me why.
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Yeah, I have. Okay, so. And this is. I'm just gonna just put it all out there because I've done a lot of work on myself, so I feel very confident in sharing the dark and the dark, the dark parts. I remember taking once a personality assessment that literally, the report said if it wasn't for my high level, extremely high level of empathy, I would be a sociopath.
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Oh, so you'll be a future CEO of a company.
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I was that, yes, exactly. I was. And I still have a very, I'll call it a very healthy ego because I think egos are necessarily necessary and I think they get a bad rap. But I would say my relationship with my ego is very healthy and very aware. But when I was younger, I probably operated a lot on, like, move out of my way or be run over, like, very, very high, high egotistical meanings.
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Give what you told me as a growing up background, it's a fight or flight and it's fight all the way. And you're like, at the same time, like, it was fight all the way. Why still flighting in your brain? So, like, we're not going to take the showdown this, because that is therapy and I'm just not charging enough per hour to do that. You get a little your backstory. You get a little your backstory, right. So talk about me, what you're currently doing a little bit and how you got there.
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Well, what I'm currently doing is that I went off on my own after, like, so many people, I got laid off after being at a company for a while, which was always an odd fit for me, being in corporate, like you always, like, I'd only make it so far, but never get promoted, but certainly get tapped to lead a lot of initiatives and whatnot. And so got my startup money, which is what I like to consider it. And I had been with their knowing, I've been doing some consulting and internal coaching. Obviously, they trained, they got my ICF training, helped me get that, and so was like, I really love this. And I knew that I enjoyed consulting and I had really fallen in love with coaching, and I didn't expect to, quite honestly. It was at that time, it was me just getting another credential because I'm constantly hungry for, like, what's new, what's next, what else can I learn? And when I, when I got laid off, which I sensed was coming, I was like, thanks for the startup money. I'm going fully in on my own. And that's what I've been up to since October 18 of 2023.
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It's recent. So here we're in April 2024. Yeah, yeah. And those first six months are exciting and frightening. And, you know, you're in the thick of it right now, right? I mean, so it's. And you're trying to sort it out and you're in what I find every 90 days, you're gonna be sorting it out. Even here. I'm three and a half years in. Yeah, I'm still sorting it out every 90 days. But in a way that isn't running from the challenge of what you've built, which is like, I always had a fear of success and still times it catch myself like, man, if I make, it's also just finishing and falling through. So you always have this tendency to want to start something new. But what I'm finding is, yeah, every 90 days I'm like, how can I evolve it to make it better? And if I can share a personal thing here. So, like, as I'm thinking through my own marketing agency, right, I love helping the clients we do with LinkedIn and the services we do for YouTube. But it is a, it's a throw a pebble on your mound, watching one float wash away below. It's a very fickle business that always, you're always, it's very hard to build sustainability. But then I look at it and go, why do I just build the marketplace? You know, I owned, you know, I own a website called, you know, the URL called get verified marketing. I'm like, because I said, that's the biggest problem is people don't know who they can trust in marketing. And I might just, I think I'm like, why don't just pivot the company to be that provider of that? Then I'm like, am I running from something that's making, you know, deep six figures a year? I'm like, no, I think it's additive because I think eventually that I could do something else that doesn't require 40 hours of my week. I go, I got a big pain to get through it and go discover how to do that. So when you're doing yours, talk about what your current kind of offering is a little bit. And are you, and this is important for entrepreneurs listening those first six months, you're going to experience this, experiences maybe hourly. So it does get further apart. So tell me about your journey. I know it was long winded, but I wanted to just give you a perspective. How have you seen the six months or so where it's a little bit more than that now, you know, nine months you've been doing it?
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No, it's been, it's been about six. So I've been so, again, I've been doing it before. So luckily, I had had some traction from before, right? I'd done some successful consulting. I successfully coached inside and outside of the company. So I wasn't brand new to understanding. I really like it, how to structure it in terms of the thing itself, but for it to be its own business, right now, what I'm in the thick of is understanding, okay? I have a very successful. I have two successful, small, intimate mastermind groups. I love people. I have a huge network of friends. I just turned 50. When was this? March 30. And for my 50th birthday, I thought, I want to save my money to make my business grow. So I'm not going to do this big blowout. I'm grown as sexy. I don't need to post it on Instagram. Right? But what I did do is I made postcards thanking. I made 150 postcards with a thank you note to all the people who've been a part of my life. And there are a lot of people. And what felt really good is that I was able to put together this mailing list without once having to go through a Rolodex, like, off the top of my head, because I value relationships. And so with the coaching, it's really allowed me to pull this background that we shared a little bit about all the 70 plus some jobs that I've had to get paid. Cause I started working very young to make my own money. All the places I've lived in different countries and different types of work, and the education, and then my genuine desire to see people win, and I could bring that together. And so that just lights me up. Now, what I'm struggling with a little bit is scaling that and trying not to do the me too thing. I have a mastermind group that's going to lead you to seven figures and da da da da da. Not that that may not happen. And there's nothing wrong with that approach. It's not authentic to me. So my particular journey right now is how to balance a couple of. I do a lot of culture change work, so when those consulting requests come in, those are long term. How do I balance those with my desire to be in service and of service, but in a way, to your point, that I can also scale and sustain because I consider myself a global citizen. I have currently have clients in Tokyo, the UAE, Mexico City, and then Dallas. I have someone that every now and again, I meet with from South Africa. How do I continue this reach and this love that I have of people and cultures and differences and friction and dichotomies and contradictions and all the things that are alive and helping people work through that creatively. How do I scale that so that I can also be with my dogs, hang out with my man, get my nails done, whatever the thing is. Read a book, work on my projects. Yeah.
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You. And the scale problem that you are, your scale problem is one that you don't sometimes realize until it's too late, because you're just trying to get revenue and you're trying to build your face. And you just described a massive problem that I consciously dropped, which was international clients. And the reason is not because they weren't good, it was because I couldn't be awake all the time. And so we couldn't do Europe and then me, do someone, help somebody in Australia. It was like my teams, who are in the, you know, like in the Philippines could help, but it was like, you know, I got to focus on us. There's plenty of business here. I know. So it was half of our revenue. I just said we just stopped marketing to it. And when we did have somebody, we made it expensive because we're like, if we're going to do this, I'm going to charge more because it's so much work. And I love the fact that you're identifying that. You know, in your business, though, do you have to find, do you have to replicate you or do you have to find some people that can do it good enough in your world to help to work on?
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No, I think what I'm learning is that. So I think I'm really getting good at identifying what energizes and what innervates me. And I like you. I think we have this in common. Even though I'm a very. I feel like I am who I am wherever I do enjoy performing, when my background as an actress, I don't necessarily miss scripts, and I don't miss standing around sets like the law, like how it. What it takes to make a movie or be put together a tv show. But what I do miss is the performative audience in the moment. Like, know what you're there to talk about, know what the topic is, know what it is that you're expected to deliver. But there being this vast, you know, endless array of possibilities that can happen in the moment when you're with a group of people. So whether that's, you know, via Zoom or that's in person, I think that for me, it might be me starting to look at in time, I may have to move away from so many one on ones and maybe it's not even about being intimate groups, but maybe I scale more into courses or workshops or, you know, that sort of thing, because I get a lot of juice out of that, and therefore other people do. And so. But it doesn't. I think sometimes what has always held me up for so long is that I want to do all the things, and I expect to do them all at once instead of understanding. It's a process. Yeah. It's a journey. It's a journey.
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Do you struggle? So I struggle with this as well, where I don't want to make course work because I feel like it's. Everyone else is doing it, and it's not my strong suit. And part of going back to, we had talked off camera before, so I knew there's the reason I introduced that idea of, like, I'm pivot my company. It's not because. And to speak to this, it's where your strong suits are. Mine is bringing, or is bringing people together and having conversations. That's. I'm. That's like, honestly, like, probably. I know it's been a strong skill. I just like, how the hell you monetize that? And so. But I'm like, wow, if I could take my company and just meet marketing agencies and I have a really good idea of what a framework is and all the consulting, and I can put teams together to review what you guys are doing and then go out there and find new customers, buy ads, or people come to us to look for people. Like, that's still connecting people. Like, oh, that might work because that's my skillset.
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Yeah.
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As opposed to babysitting a customer through how to just get them to go use LinkedIn correctly. And I'm kind of like, oh, man, I feel like I'm built more for this, more than this. And so when you're doing it, you're just like, so when you do coursework, that's not me. And if you're not finding it, then that's not you. And you probably maybe haven't found what that thing's gonna be. It'll come. I just. I don't think you got it. Otherwise, you would have done it, or.
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Yeah, exactly. Or you start to understand, like, recognize elements of it. Like, for so long, I thought, oh, my gosh, I. I've blown up so many different careers, which there could be a variety of reasons for that. Like, you and I have talked about, like, what you mentioned earlier. I just recently realized, oh, I'm ADHd. Go figure. But then again, had I known that when I was younger, I probably would not have had all of these wonderful experiences. So one day, I think, when I realized you can't undo it, and why would you want to? And started to really extrapolate. Okay. I love people. I love business. I'm actually as extroverted as I am. I'm a very good listener. I'm very intuitive. I think creatively about everything. I love performing, but I don't like memorizing scripts. Like, kind of putting it slowly, putting it all together. Right. I like getting dressed up, but I don't necessarily need to go beyond a red carpet. Like, what does. What does that start to look like? And I feel like now, you know, sky's the limit. Make your own damn. Don't make a job. Make your own life's work. Make it look the way you want it. There's. So you have infinite amount. We have infinite amount of clients out there. All of us do. And so what if your brand is a little bit similar to someone else's? I mean, they always were. You just weren't as aware of them because you didn't have a. The Internet to introduce you to them every single day.
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Well, you are, right. And you got to be unique. And I think if you. Depends what you're trying to build, right. But you're going to always run into something like your services. But if you're the different. And by the way, anybody's an entrepreneur, typically, unless you're just super gifted or have been funded, well, you're going to start off as a solopreneur, and you're going to do a lot of things, and you're going to have to find these journeys, and you're probably going to build a job for yourself. Quite honestly, if you're a sole printer, you're trading your time for something else, but at least it's yours and you feel better about it. And I'm in that kind of spot where I have a team, but I'm still really involved. Right. So I'd like to be able to, like, yeah, how do I build a thing that's okay. It's important to the entrepreneurs listening, go through that journey. Don't do it all at once, or you won't go anywhere. You'll just, you'll be building a huge boat with no one in it. It's too expensive. It'll sink. You won't have, you know, any way to go anywhere. Let's pivot just for a second. I want to understand something, how you think about entrepreneurship and specifically maybe define it what it means to you personally, like, how do you identify with it, or what does it mean to you?
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I think entrepreneurship is a stage and an action. It's not necessarily a destination and a noun. So I think that people define themselves as entrepreneurs, realizing that they have far, far since grown past the mindset and the stage of entrepreneurship in terms of whatever they've built it, if they've built it successfully. So, to me, entrepreneurship is a stage or a state in which you are probably a solopreneur or you have a small team and you're building something that hasn't existed before in terms of that organization, that manifestation of it. That, to me, is what entrepreneurship is going about it on your own, creating a new type of service or offering or a slightly new way of doing the same sort of service or offering. And then I think once it's established, unless you go to start another thing, you're now a business owner. I don't think you're an entrepreneur anymore. I think then you can go and be an entrepreneur again. That's my perspective. I don't know the definition. I have not looked it up. Obviously, like most people, I know what the word means for a conversation. But if you ask me to quote the definition, I don't know. But that's my perspective.
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I think in French, it translates directly to crazy people who can't cut it in corporate. I think that's the definition of it.
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Oui, oui.
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That's fake French. I do it so well, in my.
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Opinion, you do a very well. My partner is fluent, and I thought that you.
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I don't. At all.
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Yeah, I barely speak English.
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Depending on the day, English is hard, too, so. All right. A big part of entrepreneurship, or just. Just being on your own, is your mindset and specifically skills that make you better at what you do. So in your world, what's your mind thinking about? My. The mindset or the mindfulness that you have and kind of what's your skills to support that?
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Oh, gosh. Can I curse on your podcast? Oh, shit. Okay. It's like it. Honestly, I'm a cognitively hardy person, like, and I can say that without any sort of feelings of hubris. I am a very resilient, gritty person, and there are some days where my mindset sucks. I am just tired, and I'm afraid. And having grown up on welfare and in housing projects, it doesn't happen as much because I have worked on my mindset, and I've always naturally, I think, had a growth mindset. That's why I've been able to do and explore as much as I have both, you know, in what people would call life outside of work. But I see it all as the same. But there are times where that old. I like to call it, like, you remember back in the day when there were, like, records where things actually get stuck on a track. Like these old, like, sorry songs just come up, like old school r and b. Because I didn't grow up. I grew up. I didn't grow up country, I grew up inner city. And so just like an old, sad, old school r and B song, and I'm just gonna be broke and alone and tired. It pulls me in. And so I think mostly my mindset is one where I remind myself of who I am. And I know that sounds really corny. I don't, like, stand in the mirror and do it, but every now and again, I have to just literally say out loud to myself, snap out of it. You know what you're made of. And then I have to physically take some sort of action. I don't know if that answered your question, but that is just where my mind. It's not always.
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Well, yeah, your mind is eyes forward. Why look in the rear view mirror? There's nothing good back there. And I think I did talk about this there at some point, I said, and it's cheesy, but my kids are getting so cringe. I go, but, you know, if you. You know, I go, kids, if you stare in that rear view mirror too long, you wreck, you know, glance, know where you are, get a reference, make sure there's nothing kind of creeping up from your past that's that, you know, shouldn't be there. Like, you were speeding, you broke a rule. Like. Like, don't do those things. You won't be looking for them in the rearview mirror, but get your eyes forward and just head to the direction you think you need to go and observe the things that are there and enjoy it. And I think the skill set of that is just kind of being mindful and present, but also driven in the skill, being, like, execute and do what you're going to say you're going to do and stop doing shit that doesn't work.
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Yeah. And I think what you said, like, being driven and execute, I think you just. I think sometimes what we don't hear enough is you gotta just. Sometimes you gotta just toughen up. Life is not fair. It's not easy. It's not always. It's not beautiful all the time, and it's. And you wouldn't be able to recognize the beauty and the kindness and the equanimity and all the things if it weren't for the other side of the coin. But sometimes, and this is how I am. I know lots of times when I work with new clients, I ask them upfront. I said, look, I think of myself as a compassionate person, and I'm not a coddler. I don't believe in it, you know? So if you're looking for someone who's going to be with you for two years or who's going to constantly, always say, it's okay, you know, it's. Sometimes you need to be like, all right, let's go.
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That's good. It's fantastic way to think, and it's not for everybody, but, like. But I think part of what I'd like to say is kind of a takeaway for people listening is that find your own personality, soften the hard edges, because. Just because that's how I am. Well, let me explain. It doesn't. Excuse me, of course. So. And also the excuse of, well, I've never was, well, sometimes you got to develop some new skills, too. And so it's like, I'm a big fan. I get criticized for the statement, but I don't care. I say, you know, six, your success or failure is 100% your fault. And people like, well, what if I grew up? I'm like, then you know, and I said, like, okay, you grew up poor. Great. You. You know what? Go steal. Sell some stuff to get the cash you need to get out. I mean, I don't care. I mean, like, I don't steal from me if you can, but the truth is, if your intent is not to become a thief, but my goal is this. And the only way I can get money is to go sell some drug. It's horrible to say, but if that's true, like, if you want to get out, you want to go do the things. You're in a shit spot. No question. Do everything you can to get out of it. Go to educate, then get a job. You know, I don't know. Picking up trash. Who knows? Or, you know, it doesn't. My point is, don't let it be that this is how I grew up. This is what it is. You know, we all have things. Some people have it easier than others to get to where they are. But the truth is, you hold that whole thing. No matter what you hold it, you can get held down. I'm not saying it's not 100%, but I'm like, I'd rather you have the mindset of it's on you, even though I know there are challenges for people, but it's still up to you.
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Oh, yeah, well, and all the challenges are relative. And I think that it's also, well, it's a matter of maybe you need to reevaluate what success, success and failure means to you. Because if you're expecting that the only success you'll have is to be a billionaire when you're barely making ends meet, you're setting yourself up to fail. So, yes, you are a failure, and that's all within your control, which is what I think you're saying, is that you have to be your own best advocate in taking back some agency. And part of that agency is what framework have you set up for yourself? Because that shifts. That levels up. You know, your standards level up just like your skill set levels up just like your relationships do. And all your living circumstances, all of those things have to level up, or you don't, you actually don't make it anywhere. You're just constantly back.
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You're, you're spot on. And, you know, if you spend a lot of time looking at social media, you know, no matter where you are, you see things you don't have and everything's great. And that is not a measure of success. If your measure success is, I just want to get out of this kind of poverty upbringing, then start with whatever you can from saving money, getting out, doing the things, get educated, get jobs, grow. It's a long life. You can get out of stuff, right? If you're already well off and you've come from a, you know, and you're like, oh, I want to, whatever, then go do it. Like whatever that is from your, you know, it's all relative. Let's dive in. Some of your stuff, though, your journey, just a little bit. Give me like a, give the audience a, like a proud, define part of your existence success story.
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Oh, I would say. I would say it's how I handled the layoff. I didn't feel, I didn't feel any shame about it. It's funny because I was part of a company I started out my career right out of. I was hired, offered a job at HBO in New York and LA right before I graduated. I interned on both coasts during undergrad, and I ended up choosing Los Angeles even though I loved New York City and it suited my energy a lot more. But I think in LA, I loved the idea of being able to be able to afford my own apartment. I really didn't want to, like, share. I didn't want to have roommates, so anyway, ended up there. So I started out in corporate, and I learned, even though I rose pretty quickly, I started to notice that even though I could play, I could do the corporate thing, I didn't really like who I was at that time. That magneto part of me was really rewarded in that environment. And so I started to search, and then I started to trial different sorts of careers. And when I went to get my PhD, and my plan, because I went back to school at 36, my plan was to combine our art and research and bring it together in this meaningful way. And I identified industrial organizational psychology as a way to be of service to people, to learn about all different types of businesses, and to essentially have, like, lots of different types of jobs. And so that could feed me. So then I go and I work at the last company, and I'm there for eight years, and I kind of. I really never felt like it was quite the right fit, but it was just getting so cozy. The first time in my life I had stability ever. Like, just, I had my first real relationship. I lived in one place for longer than six months. Like, actually lived in one place for seven years. That's the longest I've ever lived in some place. I'm still with my partner. I'm with one employer for more than five years. It was the stability that I needed, I think, to finally kind of get some of the cortisol down right and to start to, like, think more long term in a meaningful way. Anyway, so even though I knew the layoff was coming and there were lots of disappointments about it, because it's always like a breakup. Well, you told me and you promised me, and I thought we were and all these things, right? But then your logical mind knows that you're just a number on a spreadsheet. Whatever. At the end of the day, when that came, I just went, all right, it's on. And I didn't really waste any time. When the. When the shit hit the fan, I did not waste any time worrying about what I was going to do next, overanalyzing it, or being concerned whether or not it was the right move. I just was like, it's go time. And everything I've ever thought I've wanted or guessed I've wanted or bemoaned or please, God, please just make this happen. And then you get it. You're like, oh, no, I didn't mean quite that. Whatever, let's go. And I'm very proud of myself. For that, I think I really. I really leaned into my strength in a way that I tell other people that they're powerful and they can do it, but then when it's on you, you get a little. And I just. I just showed up for myself. So I don't know if that's the success story a lot of people would share, because I could say, well, I did this cool thing and I did this amazing thing, but, you know. Check, check, check. Those were all box checks for me. I'm gonna publish a book that's gonna be a bestseller, check. I'm gonna go to the Golden Globe awards, check. I'm gonna go to premieres and show up in Hollywood and be an actress, check. I'm gonna have a commercial, check. Like I did, you know, I did all those things, and those are cool, but I've been really proud of myself lately, wherever.
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It's also, I think the other half, that, which is one of the biggest challenges faces losing a job. Now, I know I've been through it six times, and you can become a pro at it after a while.
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Yeah. You og.
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I'm an OG with it. I mean, it's. It's a joke that, like, the. The longest I've ever worked for anyone's, myself. And twice, like, you know, once in my twenties now, and not even that. Even that. At some point, I want to fire myself. But at 1819, months, that's about it. That's all I can. Rice. That's my longevity in corporate.
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Yeah. And see, here you are. Here you are over three years doing the thing.
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Well, it almost seems longer than that because I kind of started it with somebody else. But I will tell you that those layoffs. Listen, if you're listening, you got this point whenever you are, you've been through this. I don't want to downplay it. That is a traumatic event. It is loss. It is something that I would not keep inside. I messed that up royally when I lost my half a million year plus job out of nowhere. You know, quarterly bonuses, two weeks later. Hey, we don't need you anymore. Excuse me. And like that one I buried in, I will tell you, even if you handled it well in your. It's going to come back out and just deal with those emotions. Especially guys gotta let it out. You got to go talk to somebody, because that stuff will, you know, that wrecked was wrecking my relationship at home. It was making me a miserable human, and I was just full of shit. Feeling myself to say that it wasn't. And so now that I'm through it a little bit, you know, it definitely makes me never want to go. That was my dream job, too. It was like, oh, an innovation officer company. And I was kind of like, once you get through it, you're like, when I got there, it was, like, fun. But I'm like, this is really not that great. So, anyway.
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Yeah, yeah. And to your point, I'm not to say. I'm not saying that there weren't down moments or a sad moment. It's like a breakup, but it was more of the breakup that you knew was the right thing. So I always had that consolation, like, it was time. Do you know what I mean? So it just. And I just kept sticking to my guns and to the knowing that it was time. Not bad on them, not bad on me. It was time.
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My epiphany moment. It's about, whatever. Several months out of now, whatever, and I'm home repair guys. What happens when you're a guy? And so I'm putting some cabinet trim up that I didn't. I'm good at that stuff. Don't get me wrong. I am breaking my own arm patting myself in the back. I do that stuff really well. And I'm shooting some. Some. Some stuff in the wall and shoot the nail gun, 18 gauge nail bounces through the wall, comes back out through the middle of my finger, and I'm like. I just look at it, and all my kids heard was like, I didn't see anything loud. I was. I just kind of made a. Ah. And my kids. And who never paid, I'll be in there cussing, throwing things, whatever. They're like, dad, are you okay? Because they heard it, and they're like, that's not a sound that he makes. That's not the epiphany moment.
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Yeah.
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It's when you pull the nail out, and I do mean dead smack in the middle. It bounced off the boat.
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Yeah.
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It doesn't bleed. And you're like, I am soulless. There's no blood. And I was thinking, I know so much stuff about AI and all this stuff. What am I doing shooting nails through my finger? And anyway, so that's the epiphany moment. And I was like, there's gotta be something more I can do. By the way, just a side note. I went to go shoot that piece of trim again and repeated the exact same thing and just missed my finger by an inch.
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Oh, thank God. I have a very similar story. I was painting houses for a living. Living in Los Angeles. Oh, no. I was living in a. Above a printing press with a bathroom that they gave me with a lock on it, with only a toilet and cold water. And I lived this way for a year because I was going to start a community art gallery anyway. Excuse me. I was on an outside ladder, I think, a 20 foot ladder, painting the exterior of the house. And I remember thinking to myself, I got a full scholarship to DePaul, you know, because you went, I think, down.
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The street to Purdue, Indiana. I was iu, not. Oh, my God, that's, like, interviews over. I don't know how we continue from that.
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Someone scholarship. No, you went to iU. You didn't go to Purdue?
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I couldn't get in the Purdue. I wasn't smart enough to get in Purdue. Just to be clear.
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I had to think about that. Oh, whatever. You just wanted to go to a party school.
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True.
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But I remember. But similar to, like, your finger moment, like, even though I can paint the damn house and do a lot of the carpet, like, the stuff you're talking about can hang doors and do installations and cabinetry and stuff. Yeah. No, what? I was like, what am I doing? What am I doing? I think I quit the job the next day and went and got, like, a job job until I figured at.
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Least your ladder didn't fall over. That would have been horrible.
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That would have been horrible in your.
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In your current thing, though. So let's. Let's keep going with your endeavor. Um, what do you love most about what you're doing? And maybe talk in the context of the masterminds and stuff like that you're working on that makes money for you? Like, what do you love? What do you really just dislike about.
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It, about that one in particular or.
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Either one of your businesses, really, just one that's like, you know, it's like, man, I love this part of my entrepreneurship, and I really don't like this other part.
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Okay, what do I love? Okay, I love, especially, like, with the masterminds, I'm keeping them really small. Like, the in person ones are five to six, max. I usually like five with me six as the facilitator. And then online, I let about ten. What I really love about those is being able to provide a framework that I do the initial one myself to get everyone started, but then from there, I get a group consensus. At the end, I pull out themes, and then I say, hey, this is what I'm hearing. Agree, disagree. Want to add anything? How would we like to go? And then I come up with a framework for the next one and some exercises. What I really love is, like, by that third meeting, because you. What I do, the reason I'm keeping them very small is because I like to arrange them like you would a dinner party. You know, when you have so many different types of friends, not all. Just because they all love you doesn't mean they'll all love each other. So I kind of try and look to make sure there's not direct competition. I want there to be some psychological safety by, like, group, like, session three, when people are starting to get each other and they're trusting each other. Just, I think largely because of the size of the group, the conversation that begins to happen, the thought partner ring, the creativity. I really love that. I love the spark. I love the excitement. I love listening to really smart people in their respective fields talking about what lights them up. I get a lot of ideas. It makes me smarter and better so that I really love what I don't love. And you said it earlier, and when you said the word, it just, like, completely resonated with me. I hate babysitting. I do not. I didn't. I didn't like it as a teenager. I never did it to make money. I think I did it once. It is not my jam. So anything that remotely resembles babysitting completely turns me off.
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Yeah. When you think about this, and this is an entrepreneurial takeaway, if you know you hate babysitting, make sure you structure your business and life away from a company that requires it, and it may not get you there right away. There's always this switch between, hey, I need to do this to make money versus what I want to become. Because sometimes those take longer to get to from a status standpoint, from an offer. But you have to get to that point. Otherwise you'll hate what you're doing and you won't be. You won't be realizing your full self. I've been saying this a lot lately, where you're putting this earth to do something, and I truly believe that if you're current, you know, third of your life is working about an adulthood, at least. If you're not in a spot to be who you are, what you think you can add, or what to do, value makes you happy in the world. Unless, like I always joke, unless you're a serial killer, then don't do that. But. And don't visit my house either. But the point is that if you're not, you're not doing what you want to do and it doesn't make you happy, then go do it, because that's you'll give the best to the world if you can. So I agree. So let me ask you this. Oh, go ahead. I want a question. I would rather have a question that so rarely happens.
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Yeah, I have a question for you. I want your opinion on this. So that said, I feel like the common advice, at least for entrepreneurs, is to start fast. Don't be perfect, just get going. And while I agree with the perfect part, because we could get into this, we could get into a whole, you know, esoteric conversation about what perfection, what perfect is, and it doesn't exist, blah, blah, blah. That's not what I'm talking about. But I think that if entrepreneurs slowed down some thought a little bit in the future and set up processes, kind of, not that they'll get it all, but maybe slow down to get some quality processes in place, they'd be less, they are less likely to have to babysit and certainly work out some of the immediate redundancies that I think drag a lot of entrepreneurs under or keep them stuck at a certain level where they never, they'd actually be making more money and have less stress just going to work for someone else. What do you think about that?
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It's a great question, and I get asked that actually quite a bit. There is a balance based on what you're doing. And so if you're known industry, you're copying, I used marketing services, you're doing SEO, there's a million people doing it. Copy best practices the best. You can, automate as many things as you can, but from a sales, sometimes you're going to bring customers on before you've done it. And that's a great problem to have. You'll also discover your own view of the world, and you just need to incorporate the mindset to do this. So what I would say to you, the answer is, move as fast as you can to make money. And then once you have some, enough to kind of sustain, operationalize that the best you can. So customer retention over new acquisition and then get back into it as you think you've improved it and come back with a better offer that maybe you charge a little bit more for, there's more value. So take those cycles, maybe every 30 days. Depends on your industry. If you're an absolute, like, known thing, like, hey, I got this product coming out and I need to package it and just follow some of the playbooks. Don't, don't invent the wheel. Like, like, don't even, don't even pretend. Like, just go follow a playbook of some sort and do it and then come up with your own because that's the fastest way someone's also approved. If you come up with something completely new and you can search in Google and it doesn't come back with 2000 other people doing the exact same thing, then yeah, you know what, get going, do what you want. But most every good idea I've ever had except maybe there's Never Been Promoted thing, that's how I found the URL. But like besides that it's all been done and some and probably even.
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Yeah, yeah. To some degree. Yeah.
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No, I agree. I think you got to have a balance of it and you, but you do need to have the process is to have a process in place to completely improve and consciously say, I'm always looking to evaluate, I do mine every 90 and that's our cadence. But what about you? What's your take on that?
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Yeah, I think that there are certain things that I always run through and I don't always get it right, but I will give myself a deadline by which everything has to be looked at, has to be vetted a few times and I have someone who I trust completely as an editor who has that kind of mind and eye and then someone else from a perspective of kind of what is an outsider, how is this striking them? And then I hit go, but then I stay on top of it and I'm constantly iterating. I don't mind updating in live time if it doesn't completely throw the system out of whack. So I haven't been in business on my own long enough to say I have a 90 day cycle, but I like that. I think I'll probably adopt that. I think three is once a quarter basically.
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Well, it's once a quarter of action. What I mean by that. So I'm thinking for the prior three months of what's going well, what's not, and I'm implementing in the next 90 while thinking about what's going on and what's not. And sometimes there's some radical changes you make. You make pricing changes, you get away from markets, but you have to take action to do this. And I got to tell you what, it is a mental drain to do these things, but it's been critical to growing the company and doubling revenue and things like that. Let me ask you something, and you could take this anywhere, but what keeps you up at night?
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God, all the things that I'll never get to do, like I'll probably never go to Mars and I'm being dead serious. Right now, like, my appetite for learning, doing, experiencing as much as is humanly possible does not fit into a lifetime to a point where I have to literally, I have to not allow it to become this compulsion. And I know that, and it sounds crazy and it probably is a little bit, but that is something that has literally kept me up at night. From a more practical, less existential point of view, it would be, you know, not generating enough revenue to continue on my own. It would be, you know, like, okay, you've got all this talent, you've got all this drive, and you have this really sincere, sincere desire to really be in service. That's been a big driver for me, and it's just not going to take off, you know? And that worries me because I know I'll work hard enough, you know, but it freaks me out sometimes.
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There's a. If I self examine a lot of things, as we all know, people sometimes roll your eyes, but the truth is a lot of things tie back to your childhood, and if you grew up with very little or you lost everything, this. And this is where my fear of success times is. I'm worried it's all going to get taken away. And so every time I lose a client, it's really stressful. Every time I gain one, I don't have the equivalent of like, oh, that's so cool, because I'm like, oh, I know they're going to leave, and I don't mean it that way, but the truth is, I know they will. And even it's two years from now, and so. And the truth is it's going to be somewhere between not anything and way more than you want. But that fear of not being able to make enough meaning, like, oh, shit, I got to go back to work for somebody that's probably my number one driver, and not having the things you want or the success or the attach your identity to it and things like, you're in the psychologist world. I've just accepted that my identity is tied to my entrepreneurship, not the success of it, but that just you identify as a person. So I know how you feel. Please, you take the floor because you're way more educated on this. But that is a driver, and that is a fear, and that's in lots of entrepreneurs.
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Oh, yeah. And I don't think this is a matter of education. I think this is about, you know, Eq, and I think that you don't. Obviously, no one needs a degree for that. I think that what you're talking about is absolutely right. And I was thinking if I was being. If I could go a little deeper on what keeps me up at night and be even more honest, because I think that the top thought is, will I be a success at this? And underneath that is actually what that thought is really covering. The thought behind the thought is that growing up the way that I did, I have a lot of shame. Not mine, but I held a lot of other people's shame. And it's like when I was becoming an actress, I used to have nightmares about being a success. When I started to have a little bit of success, I would have nightmares about being. Asking me questions. And it's nothing about me, but about a lot of other things. And the responsibility I still feel after all these years of therapy, after all this time, and me tying that back to your point, your success or failures are all up to you and me recognizing what it's going to require of me to be successful in what I think of as success.
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No doubt.
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And that's not necessarily owning a yacht. That's not success for me.
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It's not. I think most people who get to that point are, why did I do that? I'd love to have. I just want the money to buy the yacht. I don't actually care about buying. I'd rather rent one.
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Right.
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So I'm going to ask this question slightly differently. So, fast forward a year from now, what's your proudest moment and what tip are you going to give to yourself as an entrepreneur?
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Okay, so a year from now, my most proudest, my most proud moment will be the release of a really big project that I'm working on right now that is going to require me to get pushed past a lot of my fears that will have fully launched. And it is something that has been percolating in some respect in my life and working probably for at least two decades now. Like this thing that I've actually concretely put money and time and effort toward. And the tip to myself, looking back, would be, don't wait to start. That's something I like. I coach a lot, quite a few men, too. But I think it would be mostly, I think in most of this kind of area there, women tend to be the majority demographic in general, I think in terms of coaching and stuff as clientele, but I do have a few men. But one thing that I find with women especially is that we tend to wait until whatever it is, whether it's five pounds or another certification, or I get this kid off to school or whatever that thing is. And I would tell my younger self, not to wait. Just start.
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That's good. I like that. That's a good tip to any entrepreneur. See, I cleverly snuck that in there like you always get. I'm a sneaker. Uh, all right.
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You like sneakers?
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You got two questions?
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Because I can kind of see them on one of the sneakers. Yeah. Don't you?
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Oh, no, no. We're a shoeless house. We've lost friends over it, for sure. But we are a shoeless house. When you come in, you have to take your shoes off.
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So that's because you're in.
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No, it's my wife, Slovak.
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Everybody in California is.
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Oh, okay. Well, we'd get along fine there. It's my wife, Slovak is why. But I actually enjoy it. Now, it's interesting. I'll leave this before I have two questions, but I'll give you this little throwaway on that one is that now, if I go out and I've, I'm home all day doing stuff on. So I never have shoes on, ever. And so when I have shoes on about, and I, like, a two hour max, and I want to throw them across the room, like, I'm like, oh, my God, my feet. Like, if I drive in, I'm like, oh, yucky. All right, here we go. Two questions left. The last one's how to get ahold of you. So don't, don't burn your answer on this. This, the other one on that. Was there a question I should have asked you that? I did not.
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Oh, my gosh. Well, you sent me such a great list. Speaking of which, when I saw that list, I realized you are not a babysitter, because I did email your team, like, hey, can you send me? And no one responded in the best way. And I was like, and then I looked at the list. I was like, I bet you they sent me the list, because he's that organized. And sure enough, there it was. I was like, they are not babysitters. I respect that.
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And also, I don't monitor my email very well, so I probably didn't even reply. So I'm sorry about that.
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No, it's okay. No, no, no. I, you know what? I took it as, like, we gave you everything you needed. You should have read the, it all changed.
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Just be clear. This is not the format I sent you at all. That's my, that's my gift of the world. I completely changed the format.
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I'm looking, I was like, let me think. What should you have asked me that? You didn't ask me. I think you could have. You should have asked me, what was the wild, like, the wildest thing I've ever done.
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What is the wildest thing you've ever done?
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Like, in terms of adventure, what is the wildest? Oh, you know, I think actually, other than, like, upping and selling everything I owned within two weeks to move to South Korea and be met by an old man with a sign on my name and then take a bus from the airport 5 hours into a town, into a country I've never been into for a year. But there's like a. There's a structure around that. The wildest thing would be, I woke up one day on a Friday. I was acting. So it's like bartending three nights a week, acting. I was actually making pretty damn good money. And it was Friday, and I was just like, what am I going to do with my day? It's another beautiful day in California. It's like I'm going skydiving. So I drove to Paris Valley. I got tied to a big, tall german guy who was, like, one of the. Cause when you go for the first time, you have to do tandem. And I'm on this little plane, and all these people in the plane, I think it was a bunch of stunt people. They were there for a group exercise or something. They were professional divers, because this is, like, just the most random time, like 10:00 a.m. On a Friday morning. And they're high five, and they're like, yeah, we're gonna do this jump. They're like, on jump number hundreds, whatever. And I'm really quiet, and I'm, like, literally sitting on this guy's lap because we're already tied together. I've never met this guy. I don't even know his name. And the guy who's like, the crowd, like, amper upper, turns and goes, you. Who are you here with? And I was like, no one. And he says, does anyone know you're here? And I said, no. He went, yeah. And then the whole place started doing. And then I jumped out of the plane, and then I told. I called my mom later, and it was awesome. I know that doesn't sound crazy, but I think.
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I think how it came about. I will tell you, I do not have any desire to jump out of prison. Perfectly fine airplanes.
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Oh.
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We'Ve had. I gotta. I gotta wrap up our podcast. I hate to see you go tell people how to get ahold of you and no one leave. Listen up. This is how you get aholder. Who should get ahold of you?
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To the best. The best. And surest way to get a hold of me is to go to doctor steech doctor, then stitch s as in sam teach teach.com. It's the best way to like see all the things, hit all the buttons. Email me directly. I will get back to you. Actually, I do check my emails because I'm not fancy enough for an assistant yet.
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You get to get an AI.
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I'll get there.
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Thank you so much for joining me and spending some time with me today.
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Thank you. It's been a pleasure and anybody who's.
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Made at this point, thank you so much. If this was your first time coming to, you know, on this show or listening onto the show, thank you. It means a lot. You know, do the apple, Spotify, Amazon, give us the five star. It helps the show. It helps the guests, helps the community. And if you didn't think it was five star, let me know. Email me, contact me. I'm pretty easy to get a hold of unless you're already a guest and I just don't reply to email. Apparently we just learned that. But the listen. Give us the YouTube subscribe ever been promoted? I really appreciate everyone who's listening. Go out there, help somebody get better at entrepreneurship. Go ask for help, but get out there and just go unleash your entrepreneur. Thanks for listening. Until next time on the Never Been Promoted podcast. Take care.
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Thanks for listening to Never Been Promoted with Thomas Helfrich. Make sure to check the show notes for our guest contact information and any relevant links. Connect with Thomas personally neverbenpromoted.com.