Cut The Tie | Define Success on Your Own Terms

“Don’t Sell Like a Wolf—Sell Like a Leader”—Alan Versteeg on Modern Sales Mastery

• Thomas Helfrich • Season 1 • Episode 260

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Cut The Tie Podcast with Thomas Helfrich 

Alan Versteeg, founder of Growth Matters International, shares how agency, conviction, and sales leadership transformed his life and business. In this empowering episode, Alan opens up about going from rock bottom to global contracts, how mindset outpaces skillset, and why professional selling is non-negotiable for any entrepreneur.

About Alan Versteeg:

Alan is the founder of Growth Matters International, a company that develops sales managers into world-class leaders. With a background in engineering and a journey that began with personal struggle, Alan has grown his firm from humble beginnings in South Africa to global partnerships with Adobe, Amazon Web Services, and more. His mission: drive impact through sales.

In this episode, Thomas and Alan discuss:

  • Cutting the Tie to Self-Doubt

 Alan reveals how stepping into agency—giving himself permission to lead—unlocked the breakthrough that launched his business globally.

  • How Sales Management is the Secret Lever

 He explains why investing in sales managers is the only way to create scalable, sustainable impact in sales organizations.

  • The Power of 10x Thinking

 Inspired by the book 10x Is Easier Than 2x, Alan shares how eliminating distractions and focusing deeply changed the trajectory of his business.

  • Conviction Creates Confidence

 Alan outlines a formula: Clarity → Conviction → Confidence → Agency—and how it helps entrepreneurs show up powerfully and professionally.

Key Takeaways:

  • Growth Comes From Elimination
    Focus is your greatest multiplier. 10x requires cutting what doesn’t serve your mission.
  • Agency is Evidence of Conviction
    You must choose to believe you’re worthy of success—and act like it.
  • Sales Training Must Start with Mindset
    Competency comes last. Without clarity and conviction, no training sticks.
  • Selling is Service
    If your offer changes lives, it’s your duty to master selling. It’s not sleazy—it’s service.
  • Build a Business, Not a Job
    Sales should serve your life—not dominate it. Structure your business to scale and free your time.

Connect with Alan Versteeg:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alanversteeg

Website: https://www.growthmattersintl.com/

CONNECT WITH THOMAS:

X (Twitter): https://twitter.com/thelfrich | https://twitter.com/nevbeenpromoted Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/hovienko | https://www.facebook.com/neverbeenpromoted
Website: https://www.neverbeenpromoted.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/neverbeenpromoted/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@neverbeenpromoted
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thomashelfrich/
Email: t@instantlyrelevant.com
InstantlyRelevant.com

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Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Cut the Tie podcast. Hi, I'm your host, thomas Helfrich. I'm on a mission to help you cut the tie to whatever it is holding you back from success. So I want you to become the best version of yourself, the best entrepreneur, and today we're joined by Alan Versteeg. I think I said it right. Yes, did I do it right, alan? You did it great. I'm trying to do the South African. I don't know you. I'm trying to do the South African. I don't know you, just showed me the accent. Thank you for joining us today. Do you want to take a moment introduce yourself, and what do you do?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, very quickly. I run a company called Growth Matters International focused primarily on sales management development. Started life as an engineer, went into sales, was useless, figured that out and then started our own business focusing on developing sales managers, because most companies take the top performing salesperson, promote them into sales management and then never prepare them for their role. So that's the niche we play in.

Speaker 1:

And there is a difference between being a good salesperson and a manager of salespeople. It's like I'd argue you should make a good salesperson a manager, because they're completely different skill sets.

Speaker 2:

There are different mindsets and skill sets and you can prepare them, but it doesn't happen automatically. I always say great hairdressers don't necessarily run great salons, great chefs don't necessarily run great restaurants. So the skill that got you promoted is the opposite of the skill you need to succeed. So that's the niche. We then go and develop and support them in becoming great sales leaders.

Speaker 1:

What's your power statement? Why do people work with you?

Speaker 2:

Fundamentally, we drive impact through sales because your number one lever is sales managers. Without investment in your sales managers, no amount of training, no amount of consulting, no amount of technology has any sustainable impact on your performance.

Speaker 1:

Give me a success story you guys have had.

Speaker 2:

Recently becoming the global partner for Adobe. That's been really successful. Considering we're two guys out of South Africa, so that's been a huge success. We've done some good work with Amazon Web Services. Some nice impact there. So really I think the big thing is we've 3.5 times our business this year on a mission to 10x in three years. So, yeah, on a good trajectory. But a lot of it was mindset. It was realizing we can 10X and read a great book called 10X is easier than 2X and it is, but it's still challenging. Scaling has its fears.

Speaker 1:

yeah, I already know an answer to one of our rapid fire questions then. So I was going to ask if you had read that. I'll take one level deeper that I maybe don't normally go is how do you find your clients and who is that client?

Speaker 2:

Fundamentally, we specifically target organizations with a large global footprint. We work with a lot of local companies, a lot of global companies, but we really want to drive that global impact because that's where you get the traction. So our target is are you in a space where you're managing a sales team of six to eight people or more and you have a global presence?

Speaker 1:

Do you guys do content development, direct outreach or conferences? I'm just curious how you guys go find that client.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, content outreach, LinkedIn posts. But then, the good old, if we had invented the telephone after email, we'd all phoning each other. So the good old outreach call just to call someone and say, hey, let's have a conversation because nobody's phoning them anyway, that's right?

Speaker 1:

Well, no one picks up anymore. That's the other piece. Yeah, Well, apparently they do for you. Well, okay, so let's get into it. In your own journey of doing this, you mentioned some things. You were an engineer, you went into sales, had no business being there, but then you became something. But you had to get over some things. You had to cut a tie, so to speak. So what was the tie you had to cut to find success?

Speaker 2:

The number one tie I needed to cut and I only realized after the fact that I'd cut it was agency. You have to give yourself permission to trust that you can create value. You can believe you can create value, you can know the value of your product, you can have conviction, you can have all of these things. But if you don't give yourself permission, give yourself agency to go, I am worthy of having these conversations and you don't cut that mindset of oh, but am I, should, I, can, I? You've got all the skill, you're already in the starting blocks, but you just haven't hit the gun because you haven't given yourself agency.

Speaker 1:

That's fantastic. What was the moment you realized that you'd cut it? Or?

Speaker 2:

did you realize?

Speaker 1:

you needed to and then you realized you had Because you had a weird approach to that. It sounds like yeah, and I didn't realize I had to.

Speaker 2:

So what happened was I'd won a large global contract for a provider or a supplying point in South Africa. So I had the South African license. I won a big international contract. They then came to me and said, sorry, you can't take on the whole international contract because you're regional. I said but you's my contract. It says I can. And then they went back and forth with me and they went quiet for about 20 days. I wasn't sure what happened. And then on the 1st of March they said oh, by the way, your contract has expired. And they took that client away from me and I was obviously wounded and upset and frustrated.

Speaker 2:

And about four weeks later that same company phoned me and said are you doing anything in sales management? And I just started building out a whole blueprint for sales management. So I spoke to them and I said at the end of the call I said listen here, michaela, who else are you speaking to? So she said no, speaking to this one and this one and this one. I said okay, next time you call me, only call me when you're only speaking to me. And that was a bold thing to say at a time that I desperately needed money to survive, but I knew the value of what I created Called me a week later she says no one's near where you're playing in this space. We're only working with you. And it was that moment I realized I gave myself permission to trust what I had. I gave myself the agency to trust what I had and it had an immediate effect and exploded us into an international contract and my own business as opposed to representing someone else's.

Speaker 1:

I think that's an incredibly powerful thing and I'll autobiograph it a little bit where we have this community called Cut the Tie and as we start getting the courses we're at ready and the one-on-one coaching and the things that I'll go do to help people work through this, the mindset I've had and I think you're giving me this might be my moment of agency to trust it is I just if you're not serious, don't even, don't even come Like, if you're not actually here to get help or be helped. You just want to kind of see what it is. Don't kick tires, get in and go all in, and I think that's the idea is, if you're not, I don't want you in the group because it just it's dead weight and it's so important because, sorry, carry on no, no, you're me, because I but I like.

Speaker 1:

It's also like you're trying to grow a group and be friendly and nice, but the truth is, I want people who are serious yeah, and the reality is the agency's evidence of your conviction.

Speaker 2:

So I always say we, we don't train competency. Competency is the last thing. The first thing you need is clarity of your value proposition and your clarity of your own value. Then you need conviction that I trust this and that develops confidence. And that bridge between conviction and confidence is agency. I have so much belief that this is going to create value that I can show up in a different way that say, hey, I know this is the best stuff you've seen without saying it, but the agency, when you've looked at all the other stuff, give me a call. So, yeah, it was a, as I say, the journey. It sounds romantic, but at the time I was getting my electricity cut, I was getting my car repossessed. It wasn't a time I should have been so bold, but something happened in me and, yeah, it set a whole new trajectory for my life.

Speaker 1:

Well, since then, what's been the impact of?

Speaker 2:

life, family, business, relationships. Well, massively I mean effectively I think I earned that year more than I'd earned as an entrepreneur in the seven years prior working as a licensee for someone. I could create a great family home. It was a different lifestyle. We say sales is the worst-paying lazy job and the best-paying hard-working job and when you crack through something like that, it changes everything. It doesn't mean everything was perfect. Seven years later I went through a divorce. I did not handle that well, went through a very trying time, internally caught up in rumination, and it was tough. But I'd built a business and I could always come back to that passion and that's been my partner all my life since then. This is the thing that I can have and do and build and have impact in other people's lives. And the other big thing is reach. I mean I've been to 17 countries. In COVID we train people in 49 countries. I get to meet people and impact people and I'm a social guy. It's as if the universe shined on me.

Speaker 1:

It's amazing, one could argue. The opportunity met you where you were and you saw the light, so to speak, to get it. Now some people miss it, some people just get bitter and don't try anything new. I think a good lesson here, too, is you tried something new without knowing you were you were doing it.

Speaker 2:

Well, a hundred percent, I think it was. I would love to tell everyone as well, plan thought out. I'd done a needs analysis on myself and I mean I read 60 books a year, so I treat myself like a project at the best of times. But it wasn't that there was. There was just something in that moment that had so much certainty that I said those words and it was like afterwards this is why you haven't won, because you doubted yourself.

Speaker 1:

So how can they trust you? I think that's actually you know. If you get to, you know what's the lesson for the listener. Why don't you go ahead and take that one? If I'm not mistaken, but I think you may have just said it- yeah, good stuff.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think going to be stating it, but I think you may have just said it yeah, good stuff. Yeah, I think it's, and it's not like it's always conscious doubt, because you're a salesperson, you're confident. But there's something different when you know and it's in you you create it. If you just think about the story of Steve Jobs and knowing what he needed to do at Apple removing them from 39 products to five I mean, how many people said to him are you crazy? This is not what you should be doing. But he had agency because of the conviction of what he was creating. It was bigger than just you know, I'm going to go train sales managers. I knew that this was the thing that was going to put a dent in the universe and because of that I showed up differently.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I think if you hadn't sold it it may have smashed your confidence further like oh my gosh. And so you take a risk. I think this is one of the lessons. I think that to maybe in a lesson extension is you know, hey, be bold, believe what you're doing, not in an arrogant way but in a confident way, but you don't let that crush your like. Don't let one no crush your confidence. Just learn from the no of why.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's so interesting you say that because in the after the moment of saying it and putting the phone down and, you know, sitting in the dark because of electricity, I was like I felt so certain that I'd done the right thing. So I wasn't expecting him to call me back. I didn't think it was about that. I thought it was about the lesson I had to take from it, which is when you show up, so you have to be before you can do, before you can have. So because I'd become someone who trusted himself, the outcome actually was irrelevant. I felt worth In that dark moment, I felt proud and I think I figured something out here.

Speaker 2:

And then a week later they called me and then we trained their sales managers in 22 countries for nine years. I mean, it was that. But you know, obviously it was a lot more a lot of work and content creation. But that moment going wow, if I never said that and I'd love to be lying to your audience saying I had so much courage when I said it, I just said it I was like I'm not working with a client that I lost the contract from and they're going to come speak to 10 other people and be in the same boat. I'm like, no way. I'm like that. When you're not speaking to me, I was going to call me. You know what I mean. Like I'm the prize.

Speaker 1:

Well, the thing is too, you point something out, have said that. But the fact that you've kind of ran around and then screwed with it's like, hey, listen, I'm not wasting time. If you guys want to do this, come in when you're ready, not when you're shopping, and when you're ready to buy, get your credit card out, kind of thing. And I think that's important of knowing when to maybe be more confident and when to kind of work the system. You worked it on the first one, you impressed. The first one, you impress somebody along the way. And the second one's like, hey, I'm not doing that again, because that's yeah.

Speaker 2:

But there's another lesson in there. As we're speaking, you know, usain Bolt says the easiest 10 seconds of his life is the 10 seconds he uses to win gold. It's everything else that he's doing. I mean, I had read probably 63, 64 books on sales management. I deep dived, I built frameworks, I took all the noise and so I knew that what I had had depth in it, I'd done the rigor, I'd done the work right. So that had built so much conviction and confidence in what I created.

Speaker 2:

I don't think you can have that statement throw away when you're not quite sure. So I think that journey and that was a tough journey it was almost three months of not earning anything but trusting that what I was building was going somewhere and I was in this tiny room with post-it notes everywhere. It was crazy. So that moment was more the what is that saying? My overnight success was the longest night of my life. It was that moment that kind of triggered it, but it was everything building up that. I said that because I was certain moment that kind of triggered it, but it was everything building up that. I said that because I was certain I'd given myself agency. This is world-class, al. So don't mess around with people who don't want to buy world-class.

Speaker 1:

Love it. Some rapid-fire questions here. Who gives you inspiration?

Speaker 2:

My mother. Oh my word. That woman is so strong. She's 76, still working, lives in the UK on her own, has friends. Both my sisters have moved back this side. She'll probably move back at the end of the year. But loss of my father, divorce from an alcoholic, I mean, if I had all her strength I'd be unstoppable. She is absolutely phenomenal.

Speaker 1:

That's a good one to get inspiration from Holly. What's the best business advice you've ever received?

Speaker 2:

I've got a lot of advice, but I'll say that it came from Dan Sullivan and Benjamin Hardy's book. 10x is easier than 2X Because when you read the book it makes so much sense. When you 2X you can still dabble in a lot of things. When you 10X, you have to eliminate, and growth comes from elimination, and it was hard to do. We had to eliminate products. We had to eliminate egos. I like being the star of the show. Suddenly I've got 12 people facilitating and some of them are getting better scores than me. You know my ego is like what is this? So elimination is the path to scaling. It was a big lesson in the 10X and it made a profound change.

Speaker 1:

I mean, I always ask what kind of book to recommend. 10x is easier than 2X. I assume is the one for you.

Speaker 2:

Definitely. I mean I'm talking, you know. It's now been two years. We've tripled every year. We're, on well-being, 10X within three, four years instead of five. And it's not that it's easy. It's just that when you're 2Xing you can still play everywhere. When you're 10X, you have to go everywhere else. I'll give you a simple idea. He explains in the book. If you're trying to play tennis for college points versus you're trying to play tennis professionally, the number of coaches you can go to diminishes dramatically. So the minute you go to 10X, the only way to get there is to eliminate. You can't be doing everything. You can't be saying yes to everyone.

Speaker 1:

You know to get an executive assistant, like a lot of things have to change and so they do a little bit of success across the board with this false idea that they're going to go 10x on all of them. But the truth is you can never. You know you can run that marathon as fast as anyone, or faster, but you can never get the last mile done. That's the 10x moment right there. As you go all in on that one, get it up, get it going hold on.

Speaker 2:

And I think there's another reason why entrepreneurs like sliding, climbing a slippery pole. When you stand still, you're falling. It's not something where I've arrived. So by 10Xing you're guaranteeing a future success because you can be okay now as an entrepreneur. But I mean in my field the amount of people that are sitting at 70, 80, 90 having to work because they just did a small consulting business. You know you don't want that, because the business needs to be your slave, not your master. So I'd say to all the entrepreneurs listening the one thing you want to do is you've got to have the courage to 10x, because the pole's always going to be slippery and you're always sliding down. So why take a small leap forward where you can go? No, let me just go 10x, 10x, 10x. And then I'm in a completely different financial space, mental space, impact space, and that's the other thing. If you have conviction of what you drive gives impact. Why don't you go play with the big boys and win the Adobe contract? Why don't you go do that? Because that's where you turn X.

Speaker 1:

I love it. I heard this at a church on Sunday If you're coasting, you're going downhill. Yeah, it's such a great statement. It's like wow, okay, You're not climbing anything.

Speaker 2:

And entrepreneurs it's at pace. It's at pace. I speak to so many business owners who then say, no, I'm winding things down, I'm going to get back time with the family. 10x forces you to build a business, not own the business. You build a business. You're not the business owner, you're a proper entrepreneur. The amount of free time I've gotten by doing four times more business is crazy, but that's because you have to, because I have to free up my mind for creativity.

Speaker 1:

And so it is great advice If you had to start over today. What part of your life do you start over?

Speaker 2:

And what do you do differently? I would choose my life partner a lot slower. I am a big romantic and a red flag is more like something a bull chases when it's me, and not because I have anything against the past relationships, just that I have a tendency not to just take a pause and read the room, because for me personally that's a big significant. You know part of my life. I like to have a witness around me and I'm sure I'll find one, but I've kept things a lot slower and I just say Al slow down. It's not a race buddy, just it's okay. You know it's embarrassing.

Speaker 1:

I think that's the quote. I'm a bull when I see a red flag. I'm a bull chasing it.

Speaker 2:

It's like oh that looks interesting.

Speaker 1:

I get stabbed in the neck a few times until I figure it out, All right. Well, not final question, but if there was a question I should have asked you today, but I didn't. What would that question be and how would you answer it?

Speaker 2:

The number one skill you have to develop as an entrepreneur? The answer would be you have to know how to sell, and what I mean by that. You have to realize that the only reason a business exists is to sell something. There's so many entrepreneurs that have a wolf of Wall Street view of what selling is, and it's not that I was saying selling won't help, but helping will sell. If what selling is and it's not that, um, I was saying selling won't help, but helping will sell if you believe that what you have drives impact in the world, it is negligent not to master the profession of selling. It is negligent because you're denying the world your value. You're denying it your value. So stop telling yourself you're not a salesperson. Go read dan pink's to sell his human and start learning how to master the skill, because if you't, then you can't explode a business. You have to know how to sell.

Speaker 1:

Was it Ford who said that Nothing begins until something's sold? Yeah.

Speaker 2:

The only reason a business exists is to sell something. You know, I don't need HR, I don't need finance, I don't need operations, I don't need any of those resources unless we've sold something.

Speaker 1:

That I don't need any of those resources unless we've sold something. That's right. I appreciate you coming on today. It is shameless plug time for you. Who should get a hold of you and how should they do that?

Speaker 2:

Easiest way is I've got a very unique name, which is fortunate. All of my content sits on LinkedIn, because that's where my audience is, the people who should be getting a hold of me. If you have a large sales team, you're struggling to create sustainable results and you know that you haven't developed your sales managers, give us a shout. That's our niche, that's what we do.

Speaker 1:

Wonderful. I appreciate it. I really do appreciate you coming on today and joining me.

Speaker 2:

It's been a great conversation, thank you. Some good questions.

Speaker 1:

I appreciate that. Thank you, and for anyone who's still listening and you should be, because it's a short podcast, we and you should be because it's a short podcast. We made it this way so you would listen. I appreciate it. Get out there, go cut a tie to something holding you back. Go unleash the best version of yourself. Unleash that entrepreneur that wants to come out. One small call to action Follow our podcast on Apple or Spotify and, if you're on the YouTube side of the world, hit the subscribe button Until we meet again. Thanks for listening to Cut the Tie Podcast. Have a.

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Thomas Helfrich

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