Cut The Tie | Own Your Success

“You Have to Reinvent Yourself or You Get Stuck”—Devon Gummersall on Taking Control of His Career

• Thomas Helfrich

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Cut The Tie Podcast with Devon Gummersall

What happens when early success makes you think the road will always be easy—until it isn’t? In this episode of Cut The Tie, Thomas Helfrich sits down with Devon Gummersall, former teen star of My So-Called Life turned director and founder of Authentic Content Productions. Devon shares the highs and lows of Hollywood, the painful lessons of waiting for permission, and why building financial stability outside the industry gave him the creative control he always wanted.

About Devon Gummersall

Devon Gummersall launched his career as an actor at 14, starring in the iconic series My So-Called Life. After two decades of acting in television and film, he pivoted to directing and writing, leading feature films, television episodes, and eventually branded content. Today, through his company Authentic Content Productions, he helps brands—from startups to Microsoft—tell cinematic, authentic stories. His journey highlights the same truth entrepreneurs face: reinvention and ownership are the only way to thrive.

In this episode, Thomas and Devon discuss:

  • The addiction of freelance highs and lows
    Acting feels like winning the lottery when you book a job—and devastation when you don’t.
  • Pivoting to directing and ownership
    How buying one camera and betting on himself launched a thriving content business.
  • The danger of trying to “do it all”
    Why clarity of brand beats scattershot attempts in both Hollywood and entrepreneurship.
  • Financial freedom fuels creativity
    Stability from branded work allows Devon to take risks and enjoy auditions again.
  • Hard-earned Hollywood lessons
    Why reinvention, focus, and saying no to bad fits apply equally to business owners.

Key Takeaways:

  • Reinvention is survival. Don’t wait—pivot before you get stuck.
  • Clarity wins. Diluting your brand makes you forgettable.
  • Stability creates freedom. Financial security lets you take creative risks.
  • Own your lane. In acting or business, trying to do everything means doing nothing well.

Connect with Devon Gummersall:

🌐 Website: https://authenticcontentprods.com
📸 Instagram (Devon): https://www.instagram.com/devon_gummersall/
📸 Instagram (Company): https://www.instagram.com/authentic_content_prods/

Connect with Thomas Helfrich:

🐦 Twitter: https://twitter.com/thelfrich
📘 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/cutthetiegroup
💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thomashelfrich/
🌐 Website: https://www.cutthetie.com
✉️ Email: t@instantlyrelevant.com
🚀 InstantlyRelevant: https://instantlyrelevant.com



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Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Cut the Tie podcast. Hello, I'm your host, thomas Helfrich. I'm on a mission to help you cut the tie to whatever is holding you back from owning your success and achieving it. Now you got to define your own success or you're chasing somebody else's dream, and that's just no bueno. Today, I'm joined by the amazing Mr Devin Gumbersall. Devin, how are you? I'm great Thanks for having me.

Speaker 2:

We're going to dive into your journey a bit Uh, but for the, for the people who don't know who you are, introduce yourself and what it is you're what you're currently doing. Well, I started my career as an actor and I was on a show that was a short lived but had a big impact and still is kind of a a cult show that has a lot of loyal fans. I called my so-called life. Um, that was when I was 14 years old, through 16 years old, and then I had a good run of lots of other TV shows and stuff throughout my 20s and 30s. But I pivoted to directing and writing pretty early on and directed my first feature when I was 30, directed my second feature when I was about 35. And then, shortly after that, started directing TV and then also pivoted to directing commercials and branded content.

Speaker 1:

You were. You're born in Hollywood, you're a child of Hollywood, fair enough.

Speaker 2:

Well, I mean, I only moved to LA when I was 10, so not a hundred percent, but yeah, pretty much. Let's be honest, I lived in LA for 30 years. I grew up there. 100%, but yeah, pretty much, let's be honest, I lived in LA for 30 years. I grew up there. I had lived in Northern California before that. But yeah, I was raised in Studio City, los Angeles.

Speaker 2:

My father was a painter. He still is. He's 79 now still painting, but he's had a pretty good run as an abstract painter. So it was sort of expected for me to do something artistic, which is the opposite of most families. But I did kind of follow in his footsteps.

Speaker 2:

But I was living in LA and I just happened to kind of be around all that world and I love movies and I got into an acting class when I was about 12 and found that I really loved it. And the guy who ran the class was also a manager and he said I think you have talent. I'd like to start sending you out on auditions. He's like we're off to see if it's okay with your parents. Obviously I was like, oh, let's do this. I mean I'm bored, school's boring, let's go, you know. And then, like two years later I got this huge part on this show, my so-called life that ended up having a really big impact. So it just kind of happened.

Speaker 2:

But definitely it's one of those things where, when you have that kind of early success, it can be very jarring when you find that you hit a brick wall at some point, which you're going to, and I think that's uh, that's probably the biggest thing that I've had to overcome was just the, the feeling of like, oh my God, my life is, my life is blessed. Like I'm just so lucky, like everything's going to fall into place for me. You know, I haven't had to have a real job. I was 16 and I'm making all this money and people are recognizing me on the street and I'm hanging out with Jared Leto. He's teaching me how to pick up girls. You know, I mean my life's going to be perfect forever.

Speaker 2:

Um, then, soon after that, you have a moment where you go oh, I'm actually in this really hard business and nobody really cares about me. There's nobody really there to be. Like, hey, oh, we love you, come do this job. You just run into down times and it can be pretty, pretty brutal, and then I think really, ultimately what people most successful people in the TV business or the entertainment business I would say some huge percentage of them have pivoted from their original job or the thing that they came to try to do in Hollywood. You know, so many people came to be actors and they and they ended up being other things. Or so many people came to be writers and they ended up being other things. Or so many people came to be writers and they ended up being other things. I think it's a business where you have to reinvent yourself and you can't get stuck. And I was stuck for many years and I was kind of like wait, it was so easy what happened. So it was jarring and I had to reboot many times.

Speaker 1:

Do you think in your industry too, where you have that early success or any success, you think you got to figure it out, is that the most vulnerable time? Or like, no, you got to keep. Like you know, take some ninja classes, you got to keep working on characters, or some kind of like? Is that? Is that when the time you can't let up and think you got it and you're like, no, you need to go all in now, you really need to push harder, you need to go learn more things? Is that? Is that one of the breaking points that people miss, or what's your kind of take on that?

Speaker 2:

yeah, I would say so. I mean, I think, certainly for an actor or really any creative in the entertainment business. You know it's a freelance job, so when you're not working you're absolutely stressed and miserable and terrified, and when you are working it's beautiful, like it's. The Acting is the best job in the world. It's very well paid, the hours are manageable. Sometimes it's a bit crazy depending on how big your role is and that can be exhausting, but overall it's a great gig. I mean, you pretty much just show up, you're in your, you know, learn your lines, show up and do your thing and then you go home and you sleep great, as opposed to when you're directing or writing. You never sleep. You know you're, you're constantly under pressure and that's you know. To me that's part of the fun of it. But anyway, the point is, when you're working, all these jobs in the TV business are the best jobs. It's amazing and the paychecks are great. And it's amazing working with this sort of big amount of people that are all really talented and all, a lot of times, very passionate about what you're doing. It's great camaraderie, it's all great.

Speaker 2:

But when you're not working it's death. I mean you don't know where your next paycheck is coming from. You start to question, mean you don't know where your next paycheck is coming from. You start to question everything you know. And I think it's essentially like people in normal businesses probably go through that, that feeling and that period in between jobs. Maybe they go through that five times in their life or something. But as a TV professional you go through that 20 times a year. You know that feeling of like my god, I'm screwed, like where's the next paycheck? So I think it's really highs and lows and ultimately it is kind of an addiction. I mean you're basically gambling, um, and when you win it's massive, but when you don't win it's terrifying and you start to feel very alone and you start to feel very like superstitious, almost. You question everything. You're like was I just lucky that one time? Is it over? Should I pivot? Should I get out of the business completely?

Speaker 2:

And a lot of people have, you know, and people that I know well have left the business in their twenties and they said I'm out and they started successful businesses in other fields and are doing great. And sometimes I go, oh man, I should have, I should have pivoted a lot earlier, you know. But the thing is insurance, damn it. Yeah, I could be selling insurance and and and have like a. I could have a new, exactly, I could have three mortgages. No, but it is kind of it's daunting, I think. I think anyone in the tv business would who's being honest with you would admit that there's a lot of superstition and a lot of question marks and you do kind of have to be delusional to some degree, you know, because you really have to believe in yourself and your value, regardless of what the marketplace is telling you, because a lot of the times the marketplace is telling you that you suck, you know. And then a few times the marketplace is telling you that you're the greatest thing ever, but most of the time it's that it's that you suck.

Speaker 1:

That's how it feels most of the time. You know a friend of mine, other friends who are in this. They're like you know, they get down to one or two people you know for like a netflix role or some series and they're like oh, it's always it's the same answer, because, but it is the, the director loved me, the producer loved me, but the executive producer wanted somebody else. Yeah, I was. That's a standard answer for you didn't make it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I was convinced and I still am, by the way that Steven Spielberg personally dislikes me because I was up for so many roles in his movies and projects where I was so close. You know, I had this one time I was reading I had a call back. I'm like, okay, I'm getting close on this one and it was for that show, band of brothers, the hbo miniseries. And I walk in and what's that? I'm living right. I walk in and tom hanks is in the room and he's this is when tom Hanks is the biggest star in the world. I mean, he just did Saving Private Ryan and all you know he was massive. So he's in the room. He's like hey, devin, oh man, thanks for coming back. You're such a great actor. We love you. We're so excited to work with you. We're going to find something for you in this project. We just don't know which role. So, hey, just sit with me. I'm going to read the other lines and we're just going to read through like 10 characters and just let's just go for it. So it's all cold readings, you know. But I he says that to me. So I'm like, oh, I'm good, I'm in. Tom Hanks just told me I'm a great actor. I'm going to have a part in this. It's going to be a 10 month job, that's it. My career is set. Like I'm back, you know.

Speaker 2:

And then I sat there and read 10 roles with him, cold readings, and it was amazing to be just acting with Tom Hanks on the other side and he's an amazing actor and just a sweet guy. And then I left and I was like, well, I can't wait for this one to come in. You know, it's just a matter of time. They're going to pick me for some of those roles. And then nothing happened. I never got a role and I was like it's Spielberg, he hates me, you know. He watched the tape and he's like this guy sucks. He just doesn't like my face, you know. And all these like you know actors that I knew that frankly, some of them I thought were not great actors. Like they all got roles. Like everybody I know got a role in that that thing, you know.

Speaker 1:

Anyway. So those things happen. Like he's too good, don't put him in there. He's going to overshadow me and it's very possible, but let's blame Tom Hanks. When I do a movie trailer for you on my Sexy Voice Guy channel, we're going to discuss this that there's a conspiracy between Tom Hanks and Steven Spielberg of the. Ai Sounds right, we're in his 20s.

Speaker 1:

Okay, now, anyway, give it out. And this is where you and I connected was with directing corporate stuff to just other things. That's a hard decision. It's because I cause you already got a foot in the door, but you made a decision to go steady income some way out in them. I'm summarizing, but talk to me about that, because if we think about metaphoric ties, so to speak, I mean, keep in mind, by the way, anybody who cries on the show gets more airtime as an actor. I expect that out anyway. Cut a tie to how you became into the directing world and that in in specifically the moment you're like you know, f it I'm.

Speaker 2:

That's what I'm doing yeah, I would say that, as I described, there's just so much, there's so much luck and there's so much stuff that's out of your control when you're an actor. You're just waiting for jobs. And I said you know what I I sick of this. I need to be the person who creates the jobs and I want to have control over the final product too. That's the other thing, because when you're an actor, you can do a project that has a great script and it can turn out lame and not not good, and you have no control over that, you know. So I said, okay, I'm gonna. I'm gonna take the reins, so to speak, of my, my life and my career. And you know, I can still act and I can still do that, but I'm not going to let that be my, my main source of income anymore, because it's just too stressful. Um, and I basically pivoted to directing.

Speaker 2:

Uh, and, honestly, the moment where I really, I think, where it really became the most real for me and where it really became a business that I was going to run, was when I made some videos for my friend, this guy, brian Vander Ark, who's the lead singer and kind of main guy in this band, the Verve Pipe and him and I had worked together various times. He had he had composed some music for me for my short, for short film and we had made a documentary together and where I followed him around when he was on this backyards tour where he was just playing in people's houses and living rooms, and that was his way of taking control of his financial freedom and his career, his creative endeavors, anyway. So I said to Brian, I said you know, man, I really need to get some equipment. You know I need a better camera. You know I really want to like start a business where I can really make my own content. You know I by that point I already had learned how to edit. I'd sort of taught myself how to edit just from making this documentary and from from watching people who were good at it and shadowing them. Um, I said I know how to edit, I know how to shoot, I just need a good camera, I need some good equipment. And he said, well, listen, I can't really pay you a lot. But he's like, why don't you come out to Michigan, come shoot some stuff of me and the band in the studio and I'll pay you enough so that you can buy this camera you want, and that was it. And I really I hold him in high esteem because I felt like he really believed in me as a director and also that he saw that I wanted to start this as a real business and I wanted to kind of free myself from this freelance hell. And that was really the beginning and that was it. And I went out there, I shot some really cool stuff with him with this new camera, and then I had that camera and then I could make higher quality stuff, you know.

Speaker 2:

And then that led to me making a video for my friend. My friend's wife was launching her brand. It's called by Rosie Jane and it was a uh, it's a makeup brand and a perfume brand and she was launching her company with sephora, which is for a brand is massive. I mean, it's like getting your stuff into costco, right. So I said, hey, I'm gonna. She said, can you help me make a video to launch the brand and that tells the story of the brand. And I made that video and it turned out so great. We had no budget. I mean I think she paid me $2,000 or something and that was just to kind of cover like just the filming and the tiny food. Basically Right, yeah, uh. But it came out so good that Sephora ended up asking her if they could use that video as the template for all onboarding of new brands for a year globally. Um, and she would go to things where they showed the video and people would come up to her like with tears in their eyes saying, oh, my God, your video is so beautiful, it tells the story, you and your family and your brand and all this stuff, and how did you do that, you know? So that kind of gave me the confidence, but never, none of it would have happened if I didn't have that camera. And so it there was. That was kind of a pivotal moment and since then I haven't stopped.

Speaker 2:

I make branded content for lots of different brands. I've worked with big brands like Microsoft and Stella Artois and tons of different big brands, but I also do stuff with smaller brands, like some stuff that you and I did together, so I can scale up or down depending on the situation, and that's been really the ultimate cut the tie moment for me. It was just like, hey, I'm going to own my own equipment, I'm going to have everything I need to be able to make content for people, because I know I have the talent, I know I have the feel for it and I know that I'm good at working with people, especially helping people feel comfortable on camera that have never been on camera before, those kinds of things. So that was the moment where I said, okay, I'm doing this for real. And the great thing is, now I have some clients, I have financial stability.

Speaker 2:

Um, and now when I do acting roles or when I get opportunities to direct stuff, it's more of a passion project, it's even more fun because I don't have, I don't have to do it.

Speaker 2:

I'm not waiting for the velvet rope of Hollywood you know these, these gatekeepers to let me in. I'm, I'm doing my own thing and basically I just needed to set up my life so that I was going to be happy and thriving, regardless of the TV business and the entertainment business. And I think, really, if I was going to give anyone advice that's kind of trying to get into that business or has a foothold in that business, so don't do it. No, no, I think. No, I think, run the other way. No, I would say, like, figure out a way to get financial freedom and financial stability with something that's adjacent to it, something that's not soul crushing, something that you still enjoy and that is hopefully somehow kind of still inspiring to you. But do not put your, your life and your financial stability in the hands of this business, because it will destroy you unless you're in the 0.0001% and get so lucky.

Speaker 1:

You're not going to be, you're not, you'd already know you're in that 0.0001% or you have such talent that you won't need it. You could probably write on and make. Anyway. There's a, and you and I've talked before like this and like I do some voiceover work, just as it comes from clients and and your own advice was just, if you get an agent, great like and it did. It happened through a friend of mine who is then and he's like he got me into a decent agent in atlanta and the best part is I'm not worried if I ever do a job. If I get one, that's fun and it's like that makes your auditions easier, Cause I'm just like oh, I'm just doing it how I want to do it. Now, I, you know, and and if they they pick you, it's great and you win stuff here or there or whatever. But I agree that it would be so stressful if I was like this is what I've made $600 this year.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean, you know people, people wonder why there's so many Nepo babies in Hollywood, and I think the real reason is that they have financial stability and they, they, they have a, they have a cushion, they have a safety net. You know, I mean, yeah, Also, they, they've grown up on sets and they know people and and Hollywood is oddly attracted to anyone who has a last name of someone they recognize. But it's not just that, I mean, I think honestly it's like hey, if you want to be in the entertainment business, either have a trust fund that's very significant or figure out a way to have financial stability and then do it. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

I wish you didn't mention talent.

Speaker 2:

Oh no, talent doesn't matter. You know, I wish you didn't mention a talent.

Speaker 1:

Oh no, talent doesn't matter, I would, but I, you know, friends of mine have moved out there and they're talking about all things they're doing. I'm like are you networking with anyone? Because I feel like that's probably what matters most is who you know, less so of how good you are I mean yeah, networking cream that we can call milk networking.

Speaker 2:

Of course that's a big part of it and that's not something I really ever excelled at or enjoyed, and I do have some friends who just are great at it and they love it and they that's a huge part of their success and god bless them, uh. But yeah, I mean, look, the reality is there's a lot of talented actors and there's a lot of talented directors and writers. So, yeah, there is an element of networking. But I think it's also really understanding your brand and kind of you know, understanding what rock you stand on in the sense of like, what makes you different, what makes you interesting, you know, and as a writer or director or as an actor and I think I made the mistake in my career a lot of times of trying to prove that I could do everything. You know, oh, I can do comedy and I can do drama and I can be the bad guy and I can be the good guy, and it's like you know what that's worked for like five people in the entertainment business and the history of, okay, like Tom Hanks is a good example, somebody who does comedy and drama really well. Name me like five more. You can't, you know. I mean there's not a lot of people.

Speaker 2:

So most people sort of they say, oh, this is something that people want to pay me to continue doing. I'm going to stick with that. You know, and like you know, in my case, I was my. I was known for this kind of nerdy, sweet character that people really related to and loved, and of course, I wanted to go and do the opposite of that. I wanted to play like bad guys and I wanted to play brooding guys and I wanted to really flex my, my acting muscles and that was the absolute worst thing I could have done. Like the casting directors and producers and stuff. They want to know you, they want to think of you for roles, right, and you want them to think of you for roles. So if they're confused, they're confused.

Speaker 1:

they're like wait, is devin the bad guy or he's, he's either good guys on a season 306 of gray's anatomy oh yeah, oh yeah, I'm still waiting for that one. You're like I'll take it honestly, that'd be great to be part of a part of that series. Um, you, you, I'm going to call it. Parallel out, though, what you just described isn't actually a core business. Problem of any small business is that people, when they have have a let's call it solopreneurs or even smaller businesses, they don't solve a critical problem. Typically, they solve, they try to solve lots of things that need revenue, and by doing that you get no revenue.

Speaker 1:

And you're right If you say I always give the example of Vince Vaughn and acting. He's not acting, that's just Vince Vaughn. I'm pretty sure that's just how he is, and he's just charged up on camera. And, if I'm wrong, you probably met the guy. I don't know, but my point would be only that every role he has the same kind of thing, and good for him. Will Ferrell, dumb character, funny, he's actually pretty talented. But why? Why mess that up? Cause that's what they, that's what people expect to see, the and it's easy. And do you struggle with that? Though, on the director side where, like let's say, you do corporate shoots or you do these kinds of cinematic things, you're like I really want to go do this Do you find that same problem going on with your, what you're doing in directing.

Speaker 2:

Well, I think, in when I initially started out, I still kind of had some issues with that, but that's been. What's so great about being an entrepreneur and having my own business is that there's no room for that bullshit. You know, you basically got to know what you do best and you got to be able to explain that and you got to have some stuff to back that up and that's ultimately. It's ironic, because that's kind of what made me a better businessman is that I learned that the hard way, from doing it wrong with on the creative side. You know, my first feature that I directed was a dramedy. You know it was sort of half comedy, half drama. And then I said, well, that didn't do that. Well, I was happy with it creatively, but it didn't do that well in the marketplace. So I said, okay, the next time I'm going to make a psychological thriller because I know that's a, a safe genre and that was more successful. Um, you know and, but like there's no, there's no through line there, right, like it's like I directed two totally different genres. So I still, as a as a creative, I do sometimes still struggle with that.

Speaker 2:

But when it comes to the corporate work and the the business that I have now in my work in advertising and branded content, it's different. I mean, I'm like, hey, I'm the guy who, who gets you, you know, authentic things. I'm really good with helping people tell the story of their brand. That's it, that's my thing. You know what I mean and I and I focus on that and I and that's what I sell, you know. Of course, I do other things, but the point is I think when it, when it comes to the corporate world, I've finally been able to really embrace the idea that you have to have a brand and you have to have something that you're good at and you have to be able to explain that to people and really lean into it, and I've been doing that.

Speaker 1:

Exactly and so, like you know, you Microsoft or automation anywhere and some other pieces that you do, it's like the, the corporate tech. We can make it look cinematic, like you bring that fill. That is a very niche good brand, cause there's always new tech companies and they have pockets and they have money and they have more budgets and it's like cool, cool that pays for travel houses. And then the other creative side is it's inconsequential how it does and if you caught a flyer on something huge role, that doesn't change. You still gonna have that company. It's just gonna make that even bigger and more expensive for people to work with you.

Speaker 2:

So yeah, no, it's true exactly no, there's no pressure.

Speaker 1:

You get the flyer. You don't like you it's and I love that, and that's you learn the lesson right of it. I often ask this question just just conscious of time on this, but I want to know if you could go back to any moment in your timeline. When would you go back? What would you do differently?

Speaker 2:

I go back and tell Tom Hanks that he's a dick. No, I'm just kidding. No, I made it. Keep it in, no.

Speaker 1:

I think he's a dick.

Speaker 2:

He's like the nicest guy ever. That's so funny. No, you know what it is. I would go back to when I was in my late teens and I had this idea that I wanted to. I didn't want to play high school parts anymore. I was like I've done it. I was on this iconic high school show. I'm over it. You know I'm older now. I'm not doing that. You know, I was like 19. I'm like I'm way too old to play high school. Like one year, you know, uh, and really what. What that meant was like it took me out of some other opportunities, but more so, more so I was. I was also saying, oh, I don't want to play nerdy characters anymore. It's like, hey, man, dance with the girl you brought. You know, like people like you playing that, you know, and not really.

Speaker 1:

Vaughn right, unless you're Urkel, I don't know what happened to him.

Speaker 2:

No, exactly. Look, when you think about I mean, vince Vaughn is a great example, and that absolutely is I mean I don't about it. So does Brad Pitt, and so does Tom Cruise, and so does pretty much everybody. I mean, there's not, there's only a maybe a handful of actors that are kind of chameleons, like Daniel Day-Lewis or guys like that, but it's very rare. I mean, look at Ryan Reynolds, he's Ryan Reynolds, that's what he does and he and he does it beautifully, and you know it's. It's like there are very few people who stray from displaying themselves or having their own brand and same with directors I mean, look at, like Wes Anderson, you know, when you're watching a Wes Anderson movie, because it looks like a Wes Anderson movie. And even Spielberg, I mean he still is very prolific and has done different genres, but his movies are always heartfelt, they're always kind of big concepts. You know what I mean. Or even Ron Howard, you always kind of big concepts, you know what I mean. Or even Ron Howard, like you get here at the movie.

Speaker 1:

You know it's Steven Spielberg, so that's an indicator, that's correct. That's correct, it's not Steven Spielberg. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

I have a lot of Steven Spielberg trauma. Apparently, I'm glad I got to work through some of it today.

Speaker 1:

We're going to. We're going to include some things with that. We won't say the word grooming, but we'll imply it and then we'll. I'm horrible. I'm a horrible person deep down and it's okay for me to be like that. Evan, if there was a question I should have asked you today, and I didn't. What would that question have been?

Speaker 2:

Hmm, I guess what's the what's the most challenging thing about acting? Maybe even though I'm more known as a director now, I suppose.

Speaker 1:

but I started waiting for it, but let's, let's catch it up. You just you hit a pretty good one recently. I'm waiting for you to tease that out here.

Speaker 2:

Talking about him, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, so I, I got this role on the pit, which is, I think, honestly one of the best shows on tv now. It's so brilliant, the way it's written, the directing, the acting noah wiley's amazing. It got nominated for a bunch of emmys for for good reason. Um, but yeah, I did two episodes on that show and it was it was towards the end of the season, which was great. Um, just because you know, it's always fun to be part of the season finale.

Speaker 2:

And I got to work with john wells, with him directing, and he's a legend. I mean, he's made shows, uh, the West wing and ER and shameless, which was one of my favorite shows. Um, you know, he's uh, just done amazing stuff in the business and he's great guy. But anyway, yeah, it was a. That was a big break. And you know, I was in Madrid. Man, I made that self tape in Madrid and I was like on my phone. I had a good microphone with me to use with the phone but but yeah, that's the great part about acting now. It's like, hey, I'm living my life, I'm in Madrid having a good time doing my thing and I don't have to get this job. It's not life or death at all anymore, but it was. It was a great experience and really fun to be part of. Huh, the character were you a nerdy guy.

Speaker 2:

Um no, but I was definitely like someone you root for. You know, I think that's the, that's the main thing that I've settled on now. It's like, hey, I don't want to play bad guys, I want to play people that you're rooting for, that are kind of smart people that are in difficult situations maybe, or maybe they may make some bad choices, but overall, good guys are the way to go. But yeah, that was a cool experience and but it's an example of like what I'm talking about, that if I didn't have my business and if I didn't have all this other work that I do in the corporate world, you know I never would have gotten that part, because I just would.

Speaker 2:

It would have felt too precious to me. I would have. I probably would have been just sort of trying too hard or or just I don't know it would. It would have, it would have had a different vibe, and I think that makes a big difference. You never, you just can't. You can't win the lottery when you're when you're when you're poor. You know you got to have a little bit in the bank.

Speaker 1:

I want to hear what the latest harsh thing about acting is. But I will say this would you have gone back to the audition of Tom Hanks and maybe as a 40 year old guy now to be like hey, which role do you see me in? And let's work on that one, let's go nail the one that you look at me and go. He is that, do you?

Speaker 2:

if you have the balls to go, do that in that role, or do you have to go do all 10 and just go with it? No, I think that's absolutely right. I think I would have got if, if I had my perspective now, I would have said hey, you know what? There's these three roles that I really like. Can I focus on those Right Like?

Speaker 1:

this is me. Yeah, yeah, exactly yeah. Same in the 20s.

Speaker 2:

this is me, right here, one of these three, yeah I think I would have said that, or I would have said, hey, you know, because he was having me cold read. So, yeah, I had any. I remember. Hey, I think he said do you want to like take a minute to go outside and look at some of these? And you're kind of stuck in the wind. Dude, go outside, maybe I don't know. No, no, he's, this is before I started.

Speaker 2:

But yeah, he gave me the opportunity. I said, no, no, let's just go for it, you know. But but, but now I? But now I would have thought, okay, let me go outside, let me remind myself all these different roles and let me pick a few that I think I'm most right for and let me go back and focus on those. I think that's the yeah. I didn't have the mental confidence, I guess, to say that at the time or to really be aware of my own brand. I was a little bit kind of just letting. I didn't have my hand on the rudder very much. I was just kind of going with the flow, which is not good enough.

Speaker 1:

Would that be like in the acting world? One of the things that we don't realize is that you, the earlier you can control that brand, the better. From from like hey.

Speaker 2:

I don't even want to read for that Cause. My my business in that in that field by um auditioning for comedies, and the cast editors would always say the same thing to my agents afterwards. They say we love Devon, he's so great, but you know he just he doesn't really feel broad enough for for this. You know he's, he's, he's too subtle, you know, and it's like every time you do that you're diluting the brand. You know, because you got to only audition for things that you know you're going to crush it. You know not stuff where you're like, well, I'm kind of right and maybe that, maybe I can be like the outlier choice, and it's like no, no, no, do the stuff that you know you're you're going to crush. Yeah, yeah, I think that's absolutely right and that you know it's like that business now is knowing when to say no and in what you described right.

Speaker 1:

And it's like that business now is knowing when to say no and in what you described right. And it's hard as a small business owner to say no to a project. You probably are in a half ass and probably ruin your personal brand Cause you're not going to do it very well. And the example might be like hey, I'll do your email marketing, I have a clue how to go do it, but you're like, I figured it out. I've sent an email. The directors and casting directors are like who is Devin? Like what does he want to play? Cause we don't know how to put them. He's showing up with these comedy things he never makes it, doesn't want to go do that. So, whatever, let's move on.

Speaker 2:

There's a million guys out here no-transcript different company and she said, hey, we haven't had any video content, but is there any chance you want to go to New York and just do some stills photography for us? And I said, well, I, I definitely love cameras. My cameras are versatile, where I can do stills or video. And uh, I said, you know, let me uh send me an example of the previous event that and so I can make sure I have the right equipment and I can do it. And she sends to me. I said, oh, yeah, I can totally do that. I said, okay, yeah, sure, but I'll come do it.

Speaker 2:

And then I'm like frantically calling my buddy hey, man, uh, you know he's a professional stills photographer, which I am not at this point, you know. I go, hey, like I'm doing this event. What do I need? He's like, okay, well, you're going to need to buy a flash and you're going to want to hold two cameras. You know, get it, have one strapped in your back with a long lens, the other one with the wide York, I went to B&H Photo, which is my favorite place to buy equipment. It's amazing, I went there, they're so good.

Speaker 2:

They're so knowledgeable. They're so knowledgeable. It's like the only place left in the world where you can call and get an actual human that can help you decide. I'll do video.

Speaker 1:

They'll actually put me in a store. The guy will go out on the floor and get something like hey, this is what you want to do and this is where it fits. I'm like, thanks, and they're not sponsoring this. Guys. I'm telling you B&H Photo like it's the same price as Amazon for the stuff, but they'll actually help you, it's like you know.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, they're so knowledgeable. So I go in there I say, hey, okay, this is the lens which is super expensive. But I'm like, hey, this job's paying for it, it's worth it, I'm going to do it. So I get this amazing lens and it helped me to go, obviously, do that job and then that'll lead to more, more jobs for stills and I actually enjoyed it. I was like, hey, this is fun. It's kind of like I like it as much as video really, and it's less equipment. So it's fun, it's easier. Those jobs anyway.

Speaker 2:

But that lens, I just shot a passion project which was a music video for my friend, brian vanderark, from the verve pipe um, it's called tattoo. It just came out and it came out so beautiful. But I used that lens a lot in the filming of that video, which really was a passion project, and I couldn't have had that lens or afforded that lens if it wasn't for this corporate gig, you know. So it's just cool.

Speaker 2:

I think the way things tie together, it's like, hey, the more that I do in the corporate space and the more free I am and the more I can have this sort of stability, the more I'm able to go do these passion projects that don't pay a lot but are really, like, creatively satisfying. And one of the reasons I want to be a director in the first place is because I love music videos, growing up, you know, and so that was a real thrill. But I think it all ties together and it and it makes me a better director. So the next time I do get an opportunity to direct a TV show or I'm kind of in the early stages of trying to get ready to do a third feature, you know, I've gotten so much better at using the camera and understanding lighting and all this stuff because I do a lot of it myself for these corporate jobs, cause I scale up and down as needed. So yeah, it's been an interesting journey, but so far so good.

Speaker 1:

I'll just, from the business, overlay right In. When you're auditioning out for comedy things when you're younger, you're saying I want to go do that. So they get you in because you had a name, you got a brand. You get in didn't work, hurt your brand a little. The reverse what you just described is someone asked you to go do it and you're like, okay, I can do that. Sure, like you know what I do, but I'll do it. And if the same thing had done, someone had said, hey, I'd like him to audition for this comedy thing, you're more likely to get it because they asked you. Now I'm not saying that didn't happen for you or anything else, but the with me to figure it out a little bit. Yeah, I can get it done. Do pretty well. You should take that risk. But if you're out there actually marketing or trying to do a brand that you are not, it's going to hurt. It's going to hurt.

Speaker 2:

Exactly. Yeah, I was really trying to force the issue, I think, to sort of prove myself, and I was trying to be way too broad with what I was good at. But yeah, I agree, I think if something comes to you and it's a slight adjustment from what you is your normal brand, great, go for it. But that's totally different than than having this sort of scattershot. Like you know, method of like, I can do everything. It's like that doesn't work in the corporate world. Why would that work in the, in the entertainment business? It doesn't. I mean, it's just there's no, it makes no sense at all.

Speaker 1:

All right, so listen, I usually to ask people to tell you who should get ahold of you and who should do that, so you can go to the corporate route of. Hey, listen, you really feel some awesome shit for you to do it or go watch your show. I mean, I'll leave it to you. You're a shameless plug.

Speaker 2:

Uh, my shameless plug. I would definitely like people to check out my website authentic content productions. Um, it's authentic content P? R OR-O-D-S dot com. That's where I have a lot of my work that I'm most proud of that I've done in the last few years within the corporate space and in the tech space, and also some of the music videos and some of the other stuff. So, yeah, check it out. I love working with new brands and I love working with people and kind of providing that cinematic quality for branded content. That's really my main thing. And uh, yeah, check it out. And also on instagram, I have my own instagram handle, which is just at devin gummersall, and I also have at authentic content prods. So, yeah, check me out and follow me and hopefully, come bring some, bring something to the table that I can help you with. You know, I love helping brands to tell their story.

Speaker 1:

That's right, just google his name. A bunch of shit comes up.

Speaker 2:

It's easy which we're going to do when we make his movie trailer his fake one yeah yeah, yeah uh, I have a book in mind too, if anybody's if, should I tell you the book thing, because you always ask about the book? Right, I'm gonna be about so. So, actually, when I was working on the pit this ties in, but I but I was working on the pit, I was talking to Noah Wiley. He's a great guy, great actor, great writer, director. He does a lot of stuff. He's he's definitely a storyteller and we were talking about directing and writing and he suggested this book by George Saunders and it's called.

Speaker 2:

Wait, hold on. I got to look at my bookshelf. Yeah, okay, just make sure I get it right. It's a book by George Saunders called A Swim in a Pond in the Rain, and he's a professor for writing and he's just a great writer. But it basically takes a look at like some classic literature and talks about how it succeeds and like why it works. And I think it applies to any creative endeavor, like whether it's like why it works. Um, and I think it applies to any, any creative endeavor, like whether it's, you know any any form of storytelling. But I thought it was a really inspiring and interesting read anybody who's at all interested in literature or writing check that out.

Speaker 1:

Appreciate it, devin. Thanks for jumping on here with me. I know I know you're busy traveling the world having fun just drinking margaritas wherever you choose. So, uh, or mojitos, you know it, it depends. But whatever he's like, you know shit, as always. Thanks for having me and listen anybody who made it to the show. Thank you so much for listening watching. If this is the first time you're here, I hope it is the first of many. Get out there, go cut a tie to something holding you back from your success. Thanks for listening.

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Thomas Helfrich

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