“As Machines Become More Intelligent, Humans Must Become More Wise” — Jeff Burningham on the AI Era

Cut The Tie Podcast with Jeff Burningham

Jeff Burningham has lived on the front edge of success. Serial entrepreneur. Venture investor. Builder of billion-dollar businesses. A candidate for governor. A life defined by scale, momentum, and achievement.

Then the stage collapsed.

In this episode of Cut The Tie, Jeff shares how stepping away from business and politics forced him inward and why the rise of artificial intelligence has clarified what truly matters next. As machines take over more of what humans used to do, Jeff argues that the real work ahead is learning how to be.

This is a conversation about wisdom, presence, identity, and why the future will not be decided by smarter technology alone but by whether humans evolve alongside it.

About Jeff Burningham

Jeff Burningham is a serial entrepreneur, investor, and former candidate for Governor of Utah. He has founded and sold multiple companies across real estate and technology and has been an early investor in several high-growth businesses.

Jeff is the author of The Last Book Written by a Human, a reflection on humanity, wisdom, and the choices we face as artificial intelligence accelerates faster than our cultural and emotional frameworks.

In this episode, Thomas and Jeff discuss:

• Why Jeff ran for governor and what the pandemic revealed
• The “stage of success” and why it eventually falls apart
• Becoming a human being instead of a human doing
• Defining success as living in non-resistance to what is
• Why attachment to outcomes quietly drains meaning
• AI as a mirror reflecting humanity back to itself
• Why wisdom, not intelligence, is the real bottleneck
• How love becomes the only fuel that doesn’t burn out

Key Takeaways

• Doing more does not create fulfillment
  Presence matters more than productivity.
• Success without wisdom feels hollow
  Achievement alone cannot carry meaning.
• AI forces a human reckoning
  As machines advance, character and awareness matter more.
• Outcomes are tools, not identities
  You can pursue results without being owned by them.
• Growth often begins with deconstruction
  Sometimes the stage must collapse to reveal what’s real.

Connect with Jeff Burningham

🌐 Website: https://jeffburningham.com
💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeff-burningham-15a01a7b/

Connect with Thomas Helfrich

🌐 Website: https://www.cutthetie.com
💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thomashelfrich
📧 Email: t@instantlyrelevant.com
🚀 Instantly Relevant: https://www.instantlyrelevant.com

Chapters

• 0:00 Mission And Guest Introduction
• 0:56 Why Run For Governor During Chaos
• 3:28 The Blessing Inside A Political Loss
• 4:47 Defining Success As Non-Resistance
• 6:53 From Human Doing To Human Being
• 9:12 Cutting Ego And External Validation
• 11:52 Love, Family, And What Matters
• 14:38 Detaching From Outcomes
• 17:42 Dirty Fuel Versus Love As Fuel
• 20:00 Worst Advice: Do More
• 23:06 A Wake-Up Call And Therapy
• 26:08 Old Game Out, New Game In

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:00

Welcome to the Cut the Tide Podcast. Once again, I am your host, Thomas Alperk, and I'm on a mission to help you cut the tide of whatever's holding you back from success. First and foremost, though, you need to define that success on your terms, otherwise, you're chasing someone else's dream. So own your own success. And today, Jeff, I'm joined by Jeff Burningham. Jeff, how are you? I'm good, Thomas. How are you doing? I'm delicious. Thank you, Brad. You are delicious. If you say that in particular, people are that's for sure. I like your studio. It's cool. Thank you very much. I uh it's it's a team Ubai. Um, you can just download it and it's there in your house in a week. It's great. Jeff, why don't you take a moment? Introduce yourself, where you're from, what it is you do.

SPEAKER_00: 0:44

I'm a serial entrepreneur. Start and sold several large companies in real estate and technology in 2020, felt lured into deeper waters. My subconscious was leading me somewhere interesting, and ran for governor in the state of Utah. So I grew up in Spokane, Washington, ran uh for statewide office here in Utah, lost. The most critical months of the campaign were March, April, May, and June of 2020. So the pandemic. So lost during that, went into the summer of 2020 with some space and time. And now I've become some kind of like artist and hippie. I'm releasing a book called The Last Book Written by a Human. That's what I've mainly been working on the last several years. So there's a one-minute snapshot.

SPEAKER_01: 1:34

Yeah, but it's uh, I mean, it's kind of crazy. Uh the did you blame? Did you think that the uh your opposing governor and it they started COVID? Did you have a fear?

SPEAKER_00: 1:45

No. No, absolutely not. I was running against two very well-known politicians, actually, one that had run for president of the United States, John Huntsman Jr., he's the former governor of Utah, and then the then lieutenant governor. No, when I did kind of my pros and cons list of like, I didn't really do it like that, but if I did global pandemic was not on the list. That is not something I foresaw or foreshadowed. But in any market, I've seen this as I built several billion-dollar companies in any market in finance and et cetera, there is always a flight to safety when there's that much disruption. And that definitely happened, uh, that happens politically as well. So there was no way that a political outsider like myself was going to win that race when the pandemic hit. It was going to be one of the two well-known political candidates. And that became a blessing in disguise, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 2:38

Well, yeah, it I to any candidate that's not one of the two main lines is difficult to win. I mean, it's I I don't even know if it's possible. Unless we change a system where no one party can win more than two times in a given time, then a third party must introduce, then you'd have a third party system. But it just creates a trifract of additional craft. So I don't think it actually solves it. Maybe in the short term.

SPEAKER_00: 2:57

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I I ran in one of the one of the main two lanes. It's just it's hard to run against political incumbents. Like it's all about name ID. And in a in a uh global pandemic, people have more important things to address, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_01: 3:15

Yeah. What what would I I just asked this question, maybe what was the motivation? Why did you feel compelled to run?

SPEAKER_00: 3:20

Yeah, that's so interesting, Thomas. Like, what was the motivation? I mean, there's there's a short answer, a quick answer, and a little bit longer one. But the quick answer is I I have built um several large companies in Utah. I've been the first investor as a venture capitalist in most of over a dozen billion dollar tech companies in the state. There's a lot of technology growth here in Utah. So I have a bird's eye view of kind of what's coming in the economy. And I felt like a an outsider perspective on that politically would be helpful. Utah's facing massive growth. That is our issue. So I think it was critical that we had a smart plan for growth. So that's why I thought I ran. Let me tell you why I really think I ran now in hindsight. My subconscious was taking me off my little stage. I mean, to mirror the name of your podcast, cut the tie. You know, I was running a multi-billion dollar private equity firm, investing$100 million in venture capital. I was on 20 plus boards, a father of four, et cetera, et cetera. I had built this little stage, especially of like business success. And that stage was being deconstructed for me. My subconscious was taking me off the stage in order to go inside myself instead of looking externally to go inside. And uh that's led to this book, the last book written by a human, Becoming Wise in the Age of AI. It's all about humanity and AI. I think that is the message for our moment. I think as we continue to inhabit a world with more and more intelligent machines, we as humans must become more wise. So it broke the stage and then focused me on what I think I really should be working on. That's great.

SPEAKER_01: 5:11

I mean, that's far the path. Um I believe, by the way, that as more and more technology and AI and I think people go back to things like nature and either things and live events. So I'm excited for that. All right, let's bring you a little bit. How do you define success?

SPEAKER_00: 5:29

I define success as living in uh non-resistance to what is number one. Number two, I I define success for myself in being able to be. So in that little stage of success, like I spoke about, this little mountain of success that I had climbed, I had become a human doing, even addicted to doing. And so I define success uh around being. We're human beings, not human doings. And in and in an age of intelligent machines that is going to do more and more of what we're used to doing better than we can, what are we left with, Thomas? We are left with our being. So there'll always be things to do as we're embodied here on earth. There's always stuff to get done. But what kind of being or presence or awareness are we bringing to our doing? The more being I can bring, that's how I define success. And then also, like I said, living in non-resistance to what is, which is not easy because reality is hard, change is the only constant, and that's how I define success in my life.

SPEAKER_01: 6:40

It's solid, it's a unique definition. It's the first one of its kind in hundreds of interviews. So two points for Mr. Dang, slammed up. Points. So you can spend them anywhere. And uh it's good. Uh take me on a journey here. So tell me a little bit more about you. I think you you talked about a little, you already set it up pretty well, but tell me specifically on that journey what the metaphoric ties were you had to cut to to achieve that success.

SPEAKER_00: 7:06

Yeah, um, in my book, I talk about climbing this little mountain of success. And I think again, as humans, we kind of look outside of ourselves for validation. We look outside of ourselves at for metrics, for a scoreboard, like you might say, of how we're doing. But what we're really looking for, Thomas, and I I've been an adjunct professor of entrepreneurship at the university down the street from me since the governor run for the last five years. I've taught thousands of students. And I often say to them that the most simple ideas are often the most powerful and therefore the most neglected. And I think this is one of them, which is what we are all looking for is inside of us. It's not external to us, it's not outside of us. Yet that is in the air we breathe. You know, in America, I grew up in a very high-demand religion. I was the oldest of six kids. Um, I, you know, I built business after business after business, et cetera, et cetera. Looking for external validation or some scoreboard that doesn't exist to prove that, you know, I was worthy, I was loved, whatever the case may be, that can only come from inside. So at the top of this little mountain, I say in my book, there's nothing but a cold, howling wind. And what are you left with? You there's nowhere to go but down, picking up the pieces of a little bit of a tattered life, not because of anything I did wrong, but just because of the pace that I was keeping. And you're left to go inside yourself and to sit with, like I said, that being. So I think the biggest thing that I've had to cut in my life, I'm still working on, especially the book launches next week. So I am in the, I've done 50 podcasts in the last two weeks. I mean, I am doing, doing, doing right now. Um, it's cutting the tie to being a human doing or to doing too much and instead relaxing into our being. That's the hardest tie for me to cut.

SPEAKER_01: 9:14

Yeah, I mean, it's that uh ties back to old principles of mindfulness and presence and uh you know, happy for you, like that. You could reference stuff in the Bible from stuff 5,000 years prior to that, that the human state is always consumed to what could have been and what should be. Yeah, not what is now.

SPEAKER_00: 9:34

Yeah, and I'm a strong believer in pronounia. You just kind of said the definition, which is things are not, this is what living in non-resistance, I think, brings. Things are not happening to me, they're happening for me. I think that the universe, I'm saying this in quotes, the universe is conspiring for our good, both individually and collectively as a society. And as AI shows up on the scene hardcore here in 2025, we're left with the real question of how can this you know powerful technology be pointed toward human flourishing instead of human division or destruction.

SPEAKER_01: 10:14

Well, I have a view that it's entropy, you know, introphy. And so entropy, sorry, entropy, rarity's down to break down the next and you see the universe, and uh so you sometimes have to build things to break them down. Yeah, yeah, I might be one of those things that's built to break down something else. So, you know, different discussion. Once again, another podcast. We're not starting. Uh okay. Sorry, I no, I love it. Just because I would go down the route. It's not you, it's me here. Okay, I'm telling you right now, it eagle. You gotta stay focused, Thomas. Stay focused here, bro. I'm really good at doing that, otherwise I would nerd out with you and it'd be two hours later, and we would be like, Okay, question three.

SPEAKER_00: 10:52

Yeah, let's just make this a two-hour podcast. Let's change it up.

SPEAKER_01: 10:55

I think the next two guests are gonna appreciate that. The uh so along the way, right? You you you identify whatever else, right? What you need, and the definition changes, but then there's the how. So, how did you kind of take those steps?

SPEAKER_00: 11:11

Yeah, I mean you spoke about breaking things down to build something more beautiful. I think that's the process of growth, growth, and that often happens, like you said, through disruption. So, what did I break down? I broke down my ego. I think this story that we've been telling ourselves for so long about division, you know, liberal, conservative, white, black, rich, poor. I'm I'm trying to throw, you know, Hindu, Christian, you know, like those divisions are beautiful in the diversity that they bring to life, but they're not the true underlying essence of our reality, in my opinion. I think that at the heart of it, there is a much more powerful divine unity that unites us. So um I think that understanding that anytime that we're with a fellow human being, there is always, we always share more in common than we do different, no matter our differences. I think that that's a key to our success. I think that that's something that will be broken down here in the age of AI. And did I answer your question? But that that that's what came out.

SPEAKER_01: 12:22

Yeah, you are because you're saying you broke down your ego. So it's yeah, there's a self-reflection piece. Uh, you know, we all struggle with that. Uh, and usually there's parts in your life and times in your life that make that happen. Uh, and it's they're not always positive, but it but that's I mean, that's a fantastic that's a real answer because there's one thing, oh, I made a list or the like the end of the day, you got to do something internally, change that. And and that's that's a course. Uh maybe maybe the different kind of question. Uh, what are you kind of most grateful for though today?

SPEAKER_00: 12:53

My wife, Sally, you know, my soulmate. Like you could strip everything away, Thomas. Like, strip everything that we just spoke about AI and podcasts and money and you know, whatever else. Just strip it away. And I think existence is about love and it's about a love story. We all have our own love stories, and so that's what I'm most grateful for, of course, Thomas. I'm grateful for my, you know, unique love story, my wife, Sal, my soulmate, and our we have four beautiful children. And I'm actually a grandfather. I have a grandson, a one-year-old grandson. Things happen quick out here in Utah. And um, so yeah, that's what I'm that's what I'm most thankful for. No doubt about it.

SPEAKER_01: 13:38

Which one of your kids is your favorite?

SPEAKER_00: 13:40

I don't have a favorite, Thomas.

SPEAKER_01: 13:42

You can't we all do rock. It changes day to day. There's a list. Yeah, the ones you can't.

SPEAKER_00: 13:49

Okay, that's easy. My my favorite, um, and my favorite is my youngest son, James, because he's still in in our house. Uh, my only daughter, Claire, is leaving for college in two weeks. So she's here now, but she'll be gone leaving us in two weeks. So we'll have three in college, one still at home. So my favorite is the one still at home with me. He's a freshman in high school.

unknown: 14:10

Nice.

SPEAKER_01: 14:11

I tell my kids uh they're I freak. I like one of you best and one of you least. I'm not telling you who. And and they're like, well, we know who's who's number one right now. We just don't know who's two or three. So I love you all, but differently because you're different people. Yeah, for sure. What's uh what's kind of the current tie in your life though? You're struggling to cut. I think I'll let me rephrase that, or you're you're struggling to admit you need to cut it.

SPEAKER_00: 14:38

No, I know what I need to cut. I'm I'm self-aware, Thomas. Like I've got a lot of work still to do. I've done a lot of work, but I'm aware. I I need to cut my tie to outcomes. Uh explain that a little bit. The joys in the journey. Like that we're on a journey, an adventure together. This existence is an adventure. It's a heroic journey that we're all on, again, individually in our own hero's journey. But I think humanity's on a collective heroic journey too. And too often we are tied to outcomes that we have too much of a vested interest in. So, for instance, right now I'm launching this book. I'm on the edge of the New York Times list. Does it really matter if I make the New York Times list? I mean, I it only does to me in as much as it gets the message out there, which I'm very passionate about. Again, I think it's the message for our day and moment, but that doesn't really matter in the end. And whether I do four podcasts today or five, it doesn't really matter. I'll tell you this. This is something I learned in the artistic process, if I could in writing this book. It was about the process. And in some ways, I'm already a quote unquote winner in writing the book because writing it changed me. I am changed because I wrote the book. Whether 10,000 people read it or 10 million people read it, it doesn't really matter. But that's hard to let go of. So that attachment to outcome, a number on a scoreboard. I was a quarterback in high school and point guard. So winning every game, whatever your bank account says, you know, how many deals did you close this quarter? Those are outcomes that we can work towards, but I think we should be a little less attached to, a little less grippy, like let go of um outcomes. That's what I need to work on right now. It's what I am working on as the book launches August 19th. So in like five days from when we're recording, that's what I'm uh looking to let go of.

SPEAKER_01: 16:39

You know, it's it's it's it's a balance of enjoying the present and not allowing yourself to get complacent with the excuse of I'm not worried about the outcome. Yeah. And so there's like there's a balance because you got to get some stuff done. And so, like, you know, I I need the I need to make that. I there's basics, but like you don't have to obsess on it. You can enjoy if it gets there or not. But I can see like if you misapply that, you might create the ability, fair enough to create an excuse. You're not doing it, it sounds like yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 17:04

No, I well, I think maybe change the motivation. We all burn on fuel, some kind of fuel. Some of it's uh I'll call it dirty fuel, you know. Let's call it coal, but it's like hate, greed, you know, like whatever, like showing something again, it's external validation. That's dirtier fuel that burns out. What I would say, Thomas, is the fuel that is inexhaustible is love. Love only multiplies. And so my point is we've got to infuse all our doing. And I've got to remember that I'm releasing this book because I love people, I love humanity. I want AI to help us become better together. And so, yeah, that that's the um that's the fuel behind everything that I try to do. And so, yeah, I think it's reframing maybe what our motivations are.

SPEAKER_01: 17:59

What's some of the um best or worst business advice you've ever received?

SPEAKER_00: 18:04

These are good questions. Point in. Do more. Do more. Work sorry, sorry, we're worst. Do more. We're on the work harder. Yeah, I think, I think, I think work harder, do more, something like that. You know, like you could always be doing more. You know, of another funny book. I told a little bit about my background. I was so busy. And some for some reason I decided to add MBA to my resume amidst all that busyness that I spoke about. And so I could only do that on nights and weekends, of course, because I was so busy. I was sitting in a leadership class, and this started to wake me up. I was seeing a leadership class, and our professor said, think of the most motivating thing to you right now. Think of what is motivating you more than anything. And I sat there fully blank and empty. My, you know, my colleagues around me started writing and typing on their key on their laptops. I could think of nothing. Two things finally came, neither of which I'm proud of. One was a I grew up in the 80s and 90s, so I'm like kind of a product of MTV. So you've maybe heard of yo MTV raps and a badass cribs episode. It was kind of a vision of that, a big party, very few, you know, scantily clad people, illicit substances. Now, as a very devout um Mormon and Christian, that is something I had no idea about. But somehow that freedom was alluring to me. The second vision that I had, which was even more scary and actually led me to start meeting with my first ever therapist, was me quietly closing my laptop, putting it in my bag, driving 15 minutes down the road to the Salt Lake City Airport, getting on a plane to the furthest imaginable. Place and just disappearing, disappearing forever from it all, from my soulmate Sal, my four precious children, my business partners, the companies that I love, the financial empire that I was building. I was under so much pressure and stress that I that was the only thing motivating to me. So I think the fallacy or the worst advice we can sometimes take is do more. No, we need to be more. We are, you know, like we need to lean into our being. This hustle culture, this I talk in the book about an old game versus a new game. This old kind of game of hustle, greed, hate, war, division, that game is crescendoing in humanity, in my opinion, or it needs to, because you can't layer on this godlike technology of AI and have our children and grandchildren's futures be better. It just can't happen. So we need to transition to a new game, like I've said, that's much more about being and about love.

SPEAKER_01: 21:09

You are humans are recreated in a pattern. Yeah. We will repeat history just because we're not that much different than people 5,000 years ago, just a different set of tools. And uh, and that's not a bad pick, it's just what it is. I believe we're not even on crescond, there's no circle. We're in the roaring 20s right now. And uh and it's so whatever whatever happened about 20, you know, 100 years ago is probably gonna happen again. Uh we'll see if we can stop a war or two.

SPEAKER_00: 21:37

But uh we need more pattern breakers right now, Thomas. Let me just we need pattern breakers. We need people to push the edges.

SPEAKER_01: 21:44

I think that the the hustle culture is a good thing because that's how edges get pushed, and then there's a rebound from it. It's like a ship that's rocked, it rocks the other way. At some point it settles, and then something rocks it again, some exterior fork. And so I think it's all it it is what it is because that's how it's supposed to be kind of idea. And so anyway, moving on, if you could go back to any part in your timeline, anywhere, when would you go back? What would you do differently?

SPEAKER_00: 22:11

Yeah, I'm not sure I would go back, number one, but number two, if you're saying you have to.

SPEAKER_01: 22:17

No, don't have to. Your answer could be I am good where I am.

SPEAKER_00: 22:20

Yeah, I don't think I would go back. I mean, but it but let me just say one thought. If I could, I would go back 20-ish years to a young married guy with young kids, and I would say, slow down, like breathe. Everything is gonna be okay, it's all going to work out. Enjoy it, you know. I won't I share another story about kind of missing the first year of my only daughter's life and how I held her in this pool and just she looked at me with her crystal green eyes and just was like, Daddy, like, are you here? Are you with me? Where have you been? And I had realized I missed that first year of her life, you know, largely because I was so busy, I could never get that back. So I would tell myself in my early and mid-20s to just chill out a little bit.

SPEAKER_01: 23:12

Yeah, you could have just said Bitcoin too, just buy it like that. That's true.

SPEAKER_00: 23:16

You yeah, I should have now, I all of us should have not built any businesses the last decade, not sweated out and just invested fully into Bitcoin, and we all would have almost all of us would have done better.

SPEAKER_01: 23:27

Yeah, live in an apartment for like five years and put everything into it. Um, you know, the kids' pieces, and anyone listening at this point, I will tell you listen, this is heads up. You you're uh you're gonna have the regret no matter how much time you think you give to your kids. It's either gonna be I didn't focus on my business enough, now I can't provide something. Don't sweat it. Uh I would it is crushing though when like videos come up and you're like, you see like my son or something, and like you know, he was a tough kick through his colicky, and then you know, whatever. It just was hard to settle. It was just like I don't remember those years either. Sometimes I'm like intentionally checked out for like four or five years just because I'm like, it was so hard to sleep because you for like four years, didn't kid sleep two hours time. It was like I'm sad. I wish I would have known about melatonin back then. Anyway, um well anyway. So my point is I I I apologize for saying that because the truth is many of us need to just take it for what it is, except that you know your first year that you you feel like you're absent gives you the lesson now to be present more often, and that might matter now. So it's all it's all good to go. Um if there was a question today I should have asked you though, and I didn't, what would that question have been and how would you have answered it?

SPEAKER_00: 24:34

Why why should my listeners uh check out the last book written by a human? Um, this is a book for our moment in time. Uh, I wrote it with my full heart and soul. You will feel that, even if you don't know me, you will feel that on every page. This book was meant to be, it's meant to be a conversation starter that leads to a human movement. The last section of the book is is around evolution. And I talk about evolving the most important institutions, you know, like human relationship, education, reforming religious religion, excuse me, conscious capitalism, and then a human political movement that I think is direly needed. So um that that's the purpose of the book. It's meant to get people talking. I think that AI is a cosmic mirror to humanity, it's a reflection to us. We get to look in the mirror and then decide what we change. Let's make a more beautiful future together. So that's what I'd say.

SPEAKER_01: 25:39

I love that. That's uh I'm excited to read it. And I promise I won't use just GPT to read it.

SPEAKER_00: 25:46

Yeah, will you please buy a cop and Thomas? I have no idea how I bled into this. And you told me before we started, I'm just gonna GPT it. Come on, dude. Let's go. Maybe I'll just be buying a copy, share it with your friends and family.

SPEAKER_01: 26:02

I'll read it. But but I generally do read books. The only ones I don't are the ones that are too thick.

SPEAKER_00: 26:07

You'll like this. It's not thick, it's like 40,000 words. It's a page turner, very short, about 30 very short, quick chapters.

SPEAKER_01: 26:14

I will I will I will do that. I like audiobooks, by the way. And so you want me to record you audio is my voice on he's a sexy voice guy. It will hit, I swear. Okay. Oh yeah. Who should get a hold of you, or where should someone go?

SPEAKER_00: 26:28

Yeah, anyone that's deconstructing right now, that's questioning uh why they're here, what is reality, and where do we go to build a bright future for AI? So I think anyone that has those questions should follow the journey, should order the book, should check it out. And then let me know what you think. Again, I'm trying to start a conversation here. The best way to follow that is just to go to my website, jeffburningham.com. That's like burningham.com. And then I'm a, you know, I have very mixed feelings about social media. I'm not great at it. I don't love it, but I'm trying to speak to the people where they're at. So pretty much every social media platform, including I launched a Substack earlier this week, I think TikTok two weeks ago, is just at Jeff Burningham.

SPEAKER_01: 27:17

I'm with you on the social media. You put a there is a number that I will put into a bank account with 5% interest that will require me to delete all social media. Yeah, so it's gonna I'll say goodbye. And they're like, what? Like it doesn't matter. I'm good. Uh thank you, Jeff. I I love these kind of conversations and I truly appreciate you just I know you're busy as hell. So thank you for coming on the show today.

SPEAKER_00: 27:37

Thomas, thanks for taking time. It's good to be with you.

SPEAKER_01: 27:40

I really appreciate it. And listen, anyone who's still here, still here, I'm talking to you now. Uh, if this is your first time, I hope it's the first of many. And if you've been here before, thank you for returning every time I say this. Go out there, get out there, cut a tie to whatever's holding you back from that success, which you define for yourself. Thank you.