Cut The Tie | Own Your Success

“I See Patterns Really Clearly” — Chuck Hall on Autism as a Leadership Advantage

• Thomas Helfrich

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Cut The Tie Podcast with Chuck Hall

What if the way you see the world differently is exactly what makes you a better leader?

In this episode of Cut The Tie, Thomas Helfrich sits down with Chuck Hall, a business coach and organizational consultant who brings a rare and powerful perspective to leadership. Diagnosed as autistic, Chuck explains how his ability to recognize patterns, communicate directly, and remember conversations in detail has become a core advantage in helping executives lead more effectively.

Chuck shares his journey from corporate communications into entrepreneurship, the moment he cut ties with corporate life, and how redefining success around contentment and clarity reshaped both his business and his life. This conversation challenges conventional leadership thinking and reframes difference as a strategic asset.

About Chuck Hall

Chuck Hall is a business coach and organizational consultant specializing in executive leadership and organizational dynamics. With a background in journalism, corporate communications, and organizational development, Chuck helps leaders identify the real issues holding their organizations back.

Autistic by diagnosis, Chuck leverages his ability to see behavioral patterns, communicate with precision, and retain deep conversational insight to guide leaders through difficult decisions, team challenges, and personal growth.

In this episode, Thomas and Chuck discuss:

  • Seeing leadership patterns others miss
  • How autism shapes Chuck’s approach to coaching
  • Cutting ties with corporate instability and burnout
  • The shock of transitioning from employment to entrepreneurship
  • The difference between the stated problem and the real problem
  • Why most business challenges are actually people challenges
  • Narrowing focus to do fewer things at a higher level
  • Using data and behavioral assessments to drive honest leadership conversations

Key Takeaways

  • Different perspectives create better leaders
    Pattern recognition and direct communication are strengths, not limitations.
  • Security can become a trap
    Corporate safety often delays real fulfillment and ownership.
  • People problems start at the top
    Leadership behavior sets the tone for the entire organization.
  • Focus creates momentum
    Eliminating distractions clarifies impact and direction.
  • Data removes defensiveness
    Honest feedback is easier when it’s grounded in evidence.

Connect with Chuck Hall

💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chuckhall18901/
🌐 Website: https://bizinuum.com/

Connect with Thomas Helfrich

🌐 Website: https://www.cutthetie.com
💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thomashelfrich
📧 Email: t@instantlyrelevant.com
🚀 Instantly Relevant: https://www.instantlyrelevant.com

Support the show

Serious about LinkedIn Lead Generation? Stop Guessing what to do on LinkedIn and ignite revenue from relevance with Instantly Relevant Lead System

SPEAKER_01:

Welcome to the Cut the Tie Podcast. Hello. I'm your host, Thomas Helfrick, and I'm on that mission to help you cut ties to whatever's holding you back from success. And to find that success, own it. That way when you get to what you call success, it's yours. And it means something more than um well. If you don't do it and someone else does it for you, it won't mean anything when you get there. Today I'm joined by Mr. Chuck Hall. Chuck, how are you? I'm doing great, Thomas. Great to see you. You as well. I I I I every time I see your name, I'm like, Chuck Hall reporting from Traffic Jam.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, I do have an undergraduate degree in journalism, but not broadcast.

unknown:

Right.

SPEAKER_01:

I feel like it's got that starring. Chuck Hall and the enforcer. I don't know. Something fun like that. Chuck, take a moment, introduce yourself and what it is you do.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so my name is Chuck Hall. Um, I am a Pennsylvanian by heart, but I've lived in Georgia for the last nine years. Um, I work as a business coach and organizational consultant. And uh I would say I'm probably not your usual uh coach or organizational consultant. I happen to be autistic, and so I see the world differently than most people.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah. I think everyone has some level of spectrum, to be fair, um, within it. Um, you know, tell me about dive in that just a bit. So it's a differentiator. I think some people might be like, whoa, what do you mean? I don't want to work with that guy. Other people would be like, totally get it. So what what do you do maybe define as your superpower on that side of it?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so um, so I think autism uh certainly comes with its challenges. And those of us who are clinically autistic versus people maybe just have some quirks, we do have some challenges in life. Um, but for me, I tend to see uh patterns really clearly. Um, I also tend to be a very direct communicator. Um, and so um some people find that to be wonderful and we can move forward quickly, and some people it unnerves. Um, and then the final thing I would say is I have kind of an uncanny memory. And so um, you know, when a client brings something up again, um, I remember our exact conversation and often can replay it word for word um to share back what I heard from them.

SPEAKER_01:

Be a frightening poker player. I mean okay. I'm not gonna invite you in my annual poker tournament. You'd like this guy, like Rain Man.

SPEAKER_00:

I've I've never learned to count cards. Uh it's it's really it's interesting. My memory is about people, and that's the focus of my coaching practice, really is the people side of business.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it's counting cards is easier. There's 52 of them. Next question. Um none of you have three decks mixed together or something like that. I think the actual card faces is a different. Uh I would say uh I always not that I I would call it a superpower, but uh I've always felt like myself, like you know, uh being on the ADHDA side of the world, had a really good read on people, what they're feeling, uh thinking, less so of what they're saying. And then you say stuff that kind of unnerves people, but you're like, well, I'm pretty sure that's what you're thinking, or and you you kind of and it makes people sometimes unsettled when you do this, but you don't do it maybe intentionally sometimes you do it intentionally to be a little, you know, you know, instigator. But other times you do it because you're like, I wonder if they're you're really thinking this. And it depends on sometimes the the mood or the environment you're in. It's appropriate and it drives a good conversation. Other times make people feel comfortable because you're like, probably shouldn't have said that out loud right now. Oh yeah, yeah, moment some filter.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, for so for me being autistic, it's almost like I had to study human behavior to figure out how quote unquote normal people interact. And so I've always been a uh someone who observes people, and that really comes in um to play really well with my organizational consulting work when I try to see how teams interact with each other.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, go through your journey a little bit. How did you get how did you get there and and maybe along the way identify a major metaphoric tie that you have to cut to?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. So um, so I grew up working in a family car repair business, uh, fixed cars, uh, with my dad, my mom doing the business, uh, the paperwork side of the business, did all of that up through high school, um, part-time in college, part-time for years after that, uh, and a little bit even into my 30s, but I never wanted to be in the family business. Well, I after once I went to college, I don't want to be in the family business. Um, I got a degree in journalism, worked in corporate communications and marketing, uh, realized that I really liked the people side of business. So I did my master's in organizational dynamics, which is really how people work together in organizations. Um, and so um my cut-the-tie moment really had kind of like two phases because I was so opposed to being in business for myself. Um, sometime around 2003, a close friend of mine who I ended up reporting to in a corporation said to me one day, uh, have you ever thought about going into business for yourself? Because you work too hard and you care too much. If you're gonna do all that, you probably should have your own business. So I was like, Yeah, no, my parents had their own business. I don't want to do that. Uh, but then in 2007, I went to work for a company, uh, or about 2005, I went to work for a company for a couple of years. Um, but the company reorganized three times um by August of 2007. And I came home and I said to my wife, I'm I'm done. I can't take this anymore. She's like, Oh, you're gonna look for a new job? And I said, No, uh, it's ready, I'm ready to start my own business. So my plan was January 2008, the way things turned out. Um, they reorganized again in 2000, uh uh, I'm sorry, October of 2007. And at that point, I was able to negotiate an exit plan and got the heck out of there.

SPEAKER_01:

Do you well what was uh you know, uh I I know I remember my first day after, you know, we'll call it being an entrepreneur, others would call it unemployed. Um it's a very fine, very it's just a mindset, is the only difference between those two statements. Uh, do you remember the first day after?

SPEAKER_00:

Uh like it was it was like it was beyond weird. Um, and it was much harder than I thought because for 24 years I'd gotten up every morning. I had a uh mission at work. Uh, you know, I had internal clients waiting for me to help them with stuff. And uh, you know, there I was. I had gotten a laptop computer because I had to turn in the company computer, and uh it was me in a spare room with a computer and like what's next? Um uh fortunately, a friend of mine invited me to visit his uh BI networking chapter. And so I joined very quickly, and that gave me um a sense of community and a place to go at least once a week. Um, but it it, you know, you still have to find your clients and get your business going.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, and you gotta find other people's clients in B and I.

SPEAKER_00:

So yeah, yeah. Not not as uh maniacal as La Tip, you know, there were no fines if you didn't have clients for other people, but oh I didn't do that.

SPEAKER_01:

I'd be on you it's funny, so it's you know, entrepreneurs, uh, BNI is a local chapter-based networking, for those who don't know. Uh and you show up every week and you tend to bring people to refer and they bring people to you. If you you're building a business that's very local, great idea. If you have a business that has like, I can help anyone in the world, and you might just focus on US, and and those kind of things are are not as well served. Unless you do the trick, you go visit every other chapter because you're a unique provider and there's no one else in those other chapters, then it works.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. So so yeah, so I had to join as a marketing strategist because it was the only thing available. And um, because you know, there's only one person per category. So I couldn't call myself a business coach, I couldn't call myself a copywriter, a web developer, you know, any of the things that I had done through the years. Um, all I had to do was sell business strategy or marketing strategy. And that was that was a challenge. Not a lot of small businesses are growing. You know, I think I need a marketing strategist today.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. They think I just I just need social media. They were decided decided what the strategy is typically. They've skipped that step.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Well, social media was pretty raw back then, and that's actually one of the things that I fell into because I would, you know, I was pretty heavily involved with digital marketing before I I went out on my own. And uh, so a lot of people were looking for social media help, which I did outside of of B and I.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Uh keep going though. So so you know, you're you're building your business. Do you remember the I'm sure you remember this? Your first client, how did you find them?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, actually, that's that's a uh great, great uh question. So my first client, I remember him well. Um, and I it's it's actually it's one of the my proudest clients. Um, it was the father of a friend of mine from my graduate program, had his own consulting business, and um he was struggling to bring focus to his business. So I asked him two questions uh on our first meeting. Um, what in your business do you like doing most? And he said, Oh, I have 10 services I offer. And I said, Okay, I want you to rank in order for us the next time we meet your from your favorite to your least favorite of the services. He goes, Okay, got it. And I said, if you do that, I want you to look at your books and rank which is the most profitable uh to least profitable service that you offer. And when I came back the next week, he's like, This is amazing. The three things that I like best are the things where we make the most money. And he goes, and I don't like them because we make the most money. I like them because I like them. And they just happen to be what makes us the most money. So I said, okay, there's the focus for your business. And so we build his business plan, his marketing plan, everything around what he loves and what he makes money most money at.

SPEAKER_01:

It it's uh, as a business owner myself, I I you know, I say, hey, this one thing made 100k a month, would I want to do it? And I'm like, you know, would I want to train all my time and go to a corporate office and basically have a job, but let's say it's a client. I'm like, okay, sure, it's a lot of money. You know, of course I'd show up. If you could do 100k a month, but never actually have to be involved in much of the work and just kind of manage your teams. I'd like, yes, 100% would rather have that. And so it, and and and and I say this because as you know, I've talked a little bit but uh offline, but you know, every year I try to cut a tie to something big. And this year it was adult ADHD. So I started taking medication and therapy and all the things you do with that. And in that time period, I've gotten hyper focused on what I really want and matter and what I do well and what what what do I want to build? Because when you're when you're ADHD, you don't realize quite the glass box you're existing in. And you think like, you know, you just don't realize until you're out of it a little bit, you're like, oh wow. And what I found was I need a product and service for my my company instantly relevant that someone else can sell and my team delivers. And so what we come up with, to be clear, was like exactly this. I was like, well, cool. That will basically run lead gen for people who and it costs a dollar an hour. It just runs 24-7. And so it's like, okay, well, that's a pretty good offer. Like, we're cool. I'll I someone to basically work on my lead gen for 24 hours a day, seven days a week for a dollar an hour. Um, it's a crazy value proposition, but we do that. And and now it's like, you know, you literally like this week, we just started kind of releasing the proposals on that and wrote like I think six proposals yesterday for that. Just send them out. And the point being is it's around that exact same thing. What do I want to do and what would make me happy? The question on books is if it doesn't exist yet, I like you said, shape up two different things that make it exactly the same. Which one do you want to go do? Um, I think that's such a brilliant strategy. Now, do you continue that strategy today? I think if you're letting me take a minute there to self-promote, but no point being uh it's so relevant in my world just today, what you just said, because it is truly like why I really don't like doing coaching. I do it as part of what we do, but I really don't because it's just it's a lot of mental strain, a lot of work. So I don't really want to do it long term. Yeah. Uh you do you take that same simplicity approach for the organizational piece, or does your stuff evolve past that now?

SPEAKER_00:

So what I do is I have I have no crookie cutter approach. And that's one of the things that I really pride myself on is I feel like each client I work with, um, I encounter where they're at and what their what their issues are. Sometimes people, there's there's an old saying in organizational um uh culture analysis, it's the problem as stated and the problem as real. And so, you know, a lot of times I'll hear like a business owner say, Well, if I could just get my people to perform better, I'd be happy. And then you start looking, and and there's an article I wrote a few years ago called, but what if you're the problem? Right. And that's often the case. So um, so I do ask questions like that, but there's there are different things with different people. One of the things I've started doing is I use a behavioral assessment um that is based on the big five personality traits and cognitive processing, which is how people think. And so I ask all my clients to do that. And then we start from a uh data perspective rather than my opinion versus their opinion. And if it says uh one of the reports is on communication, if it says, here are your challenges with communication, it's not like I think I'm a great communicator. No, I think you're not a great communicator. It's like here are the the some of the data behind this. As you reported in your questionnaire, let's unpack that.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, and I I think having a data approach today, data can be manipulated a little bit. Uh in today's business you have. It's got a long role, right? Gone from, oh my God, I don't want to be an entrepreneur. I got my first client. You probably got did you get a little bit of an addiction on that one? Like, oh, that was that was fun. I love that win.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, so yeah. So what happened with me is when I started my business, I started it right into the teeth of the financial crisis of 2008, 2009. And so by the end of 2008, in December of 2008, my total billings for the month were$350. Um, and all my projects dried up, everybody put everything on hold, and most of them never came back. Um, so that was a really scary time. You know, I had to dip into savings to survive. Um, I had a nice house, three kids, um, my wife now of 36 years, uh, you know, a mortgage, all the bills that you have, and$350 a month in income just is not gonna cut it.

SPEAKER_01:

No. Um, and as much as I tell people to be entrepreneurs, I will say, you know, my wife had a W-2 for my first year, so I could reinvest back in my business. And I will tell you, you do need some type of income or be very comfortable with I've saved this money. I'm gonna I'm gonna burn through it trying. Um as an entrepreneur, you know, you're gonna have a risk element. It's probably really no different than working for somebody, except that risk is pushed out till your mid-40s or early 50s when you're gonna get aged out, priced out, and that risk is much, much higher longer. It's much easier to do early than go burn through 30k of savings in a year, trying something and fail, not failing, but maybe just not doing what happened, and be able to go back into the workforce. It's way harder longer on later on because you're risking you have no time for recovery to do it. And and I would tell you, like you don't realize that when you're 20 something is maybe 30k at the time, whatever it takes to live for a year is a lot. When you get older, you're like, oh my god, I wish I would have done it then.

unknown:

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, you know, building out pretty a month or something.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I did I did it when I was ready. Um, you know, I probably should have forced myself to be ready a couple of years earlier, but um, you know, it worked out. My quality of life went through the roof. You know, of course you lose the corporate benefits and paid vacations and you know, affordable health health care or health insurance, you know, all of that stuff goes away. But um, I said to my wife afterwards, I said, you know, I think I probably would have died before I was 40 because I was working so hard and pushing myself, a lot of business travel. And uh so, so you know, it kind of saved my life, even though it was was a challenge, you know, at that time.

SPEAKER_01:

And you really don't know because I know what what the course of a life would have been if you hadn't done something. So you can you can take it, it's happened for you or to you. Uh how about today though? What's kind of the metaphoric tie in your business today you struggle with?

SPEAKER_00:

Um, so one of the things is, and and um this is this is gonna sound a little cocky, and I don't I don't mean it to be that way, but my challenge is I can do a lot of things. Um, you know, I'm I'm good at copywriting. Um, I've been developing websites uh since the mid-90s. Um I, you know, I'm I've got a lot of experience in marketing. Um, I've written a book and I've got a couple more books percolating. So the biggest challenge for me is to, much like I did with that client, is to focus in on what are, you know, really for me the one or two things that I want to do. Um so I'm proud of myself. I've officially stopped taking any editing or copywriting assignments. Um, I've stopped doing all website development. Um, I don't do marketing consulting for people. I really stick to executive coaching and organizational consulting. And those two really go hand to hand because a lot of the issues in companies are um are the leaders, right? The leaders need to take action, change their actions, um, you know, make hard decisions, etc. And then that affects the organization.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And and you know, as a marketer, right? It's a lot easier to market yourself on those two elements of service that are real interrelated. It's it's really how the problems frame to you is what ends up being it's the same service, effectively, right? Just different framing of the problem. Uh, I'll take all your marketing consulting, by the way. You want, you can send them right over. That's all we do. So uh but the uh I'll send all the executive coaching to you because I do not want to do any of that. Um easy. But the the it's not even an arrogant thing you said, or it's a it's uh I could do lots, but without knowing it, right? I built a website for my client in an hour with AI and it ran ads against it within four hours and have leads coming in within 24 hours. Yeah, good site, and it's SEO'd and it's like not that I care about any of that stuff, but it's like Google Analytics are hooked in, pixels are hooked in, and I did it in an hour. And it cost me a dollar, one dollar, and it cost me 50 a month when that trial's all over. My point being is AI copy for the middle sized small business, you know, like it's gonna do all that for you because you don't need anything more than what I just put up for a small business. And consulting though continues because it there's always new tech, there's always new things coming in, there's all always people involved. For that Away, my point. Being is it's you're gonna need consulting at all times. So I think the the shift, and uh you know, you're not a spring chicken, so your your swan song is is now set. You're you know what you're gonna go do from to the time you're like, I'm kind of done doing this. You're good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So yeah. So one thing I will say on AI is um I use it intensely in my work. Um and so like uh here's a quick example. Um, I had uh a company I'm working with had all the C-level people uh rate the CEO um on his strengths and how those affect the organization as well as its challenges. Um AI helped me build the rating sheet based on the values and uh mission and vision of the of the CEO, as well as uh strategic imperatives, the way he wants the company to operate. Uh so that created uh uh an amazing Excel sheet for me. I sent that out to all the C-level leaders in the company. They completed it, I uploaded their results, got it to tabulate everything, and then I got it to conduct a statistical analysis of um of all of the performance factors of the CEO. Um, and then I also I was not a great statistician in college. I loved the concepts, but I was not great at um manually doing the formulas. So um, but I understand data really well. And what I did was then asked it to adjust for outliers, um, to, you know, to give me a more accurate score. And anyway, it rated the performance of the CEO in the eyes of the C-level leaders, and I'm presenting that to him tomorrow. Um, and that's that's amazing. It would have taken me days to do all of it. Yeah, and it and it was hours.

SPEAKER_01:

It's it's funny how AI and you know related to like let's say marketing and consulting or strategy, when we produce podcasts or YouTube, and they're always like, hey, what should we be talking about? The amount of research we can do with AI and how we take their current data and competitor data based on what we know and say, hey, listen, give us the you know eight to twelve questions that people are searching on SEO based on this problem this person solved and the competitor data, it's amazing how much better the the content trends relative to what they were doing when we kind of focus that way. And it's it's stuff that would have taken me in a team hours and weeks to put together. It's done in minutes. Like it's crazy. It's so good. So if you're not using it for the purposes of research and strategy uh setup, you still shouldn't interpret it. Meaning, like it should give you some V because it's what you are seeing. You can ask it for strategy recommendations, but I'd be tell you on most prompts, it's probably better. Ask me questions as if I was a CEO, what you'd want to know before answering about strategy. It's really good about doing that. That way, if you answer more and more, it actually can really help you do some stuff. But if you if you just say give it to me, then it's pulling from blogs and you're just vanilla.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah. I use it a lot for um correlating different things uh and and doing kind of that that road analysis. And then I challenge it. I will I'll be like, no, you weighted whatever too heavily, you know, redo it, but reduce your reliance on this data set or whatever. I've I've fed it.

SPEAKER_01:

I've flat up called it a liar.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, I get pretty angry. So last night uh I needed it to produce part of this report I'm doing tomorrow, and it told me it was producing it after 20 minutes. I'm like, where's the Word document? And it said, Oh, you're absolutely right. I failed to do this. So anyway, it promised me last night. This is Chat GPT. It promised me last night that it would deliver the finished file to me by 7 a.m. this morning. So a little after seven, I got on my computer. I said, Where's the file? It said, You're absolutely right. I failed to do that overnight. I'll have it for you.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah. It was like, I was like, your performance is not meeting my needs, right? It was like, so it finally told me it couldn't produce the word file for me, but it would put it in text for me to copy and paste. And then it did. And then it said, Um, would you like me to email the file to you when I have it? I said, Yes, please. Uh, and a few minutes later, it said, I was unable to email you the file. So here's the file you ask for to download, which is what I wanted in the first place. So it it is it is like a poorly performing employee someday. Oh, it's like, I don't need that. I'm about to hire somebody for that point.

SPEAKER_01:

Uh you know, it's as uh we were discussing here today, but how do you define success?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so I have for me, right? I think every person has to define their own success. For me, I have decided success for me is enduring contentment, right? I don't need to like live life at like the absolute high peak, high point, like I'm at a party or celebration every minute, and I don't want to like wallow like Eeyore in uh, you know, and like woe is me. I just want life to be good. Um, you know, me to be able to support myself and my family, uh, plan for the future and do the things that I like. You know, that was one of the things when I worked in the corporate world. There were so many things that I didn't like. There were people who are difficult to deal with that I had to accept as as my clients. And now, like if I don't, if if I'm talking to somebody about working with them and I just I'm not feeling it, I will not accept them as a client.

SPEAKER_01:

Good. I I haven't uh turned one down, but I've barely fired one myself. So I I I know what you're kind of coming back from that.

SPEAKER_00:

Um, yeah, I've done I've done both, and I had one guy who got super angry with me. He's like, he's like, uh, do you mean to tell me that because you don't think we're gonna be able to get along, that you're not gonna work with me? I'm like, yeah, that's what I'm telling. We we just seeing things too differently. This is not gonna work. And then he kept calling me, and I finally had to block him because I was I was done.

SPEAKER_01:

See, I I'm there with there. There I go. Okay, fine. The price is triple.

SPEAKER_00:

He did that one time and they said yes, and I was like, oh no.

SPEAKER_01:

I meant quadruple. What's centillion, whatever it's seven is, I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. Uh so uh first of all, hey, where should someone get a hold of you if they want to have a conversation with you?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so um, so I'm on LinkedIn. I use LinkedIn a lot. Um, so they can find me there. My email, I made it tried to make it really easy. It is chuck at chuckemail.com. Um, and uh that's that's the best way to find me. Always happy to talk with people. Um, I love hearing people's stories, challenges, and there's a way we can help each other. Let's go for it.

SPEAKER_01:

Awesome. All right, last question. If there's a question I should have asked you and I didn't, what was that question? And how would you meet?

SPEAKER_00:

What was the qu what what is a question you didn't ask? That's a really good question. Um, so here we go. I'll just be really deep. What's the purpose of life?

SPEAKER_01:

Um, so it's only a 28-minute or so show, but we can go ahead and try if you can answer that in 30 seconds. I'm gonna say you've got to do both again.

SPEAKER_00:

I can. I think we are here to uh learn and grow uh and become a better version of ourselves every day. And that's what I strive to do. And that's really why I love coaching, because that's the that's how I focus. Um, how do we all be better human beings?

SPEAKER_01:

Somebody would answer the entropy. Which is the opposite of what you say.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01:

There's an argument, there's an argument for love, there's an argument for that, and they might be the same thing. We don't know what's destructive or constructive. We we don't know. We don't know, but everything built is designed to be destroying something else.

SPEAKER_00:

So exactly. In the end, in the end, we will all return uh to the earth.

SPEAKER_01:

Stardust. We will become stardust.

SPEAKER_00:

We will be dust in the stars at some point, and then and then we've got a single four billion years. Yeah, we are stardust, we are golden. Yeah, there we go.

SPEAKER_01:

Uh Chuck, thanks very much for coming on today. Uh I I really appreciate you uh taking the moment to spend with me.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, thank you, Thomas. It's been great talking with you and uh everybody who's out there listening to your podcast. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01:

Hey, look, get a hold of Chuck Hall on uh on in LinkedIn. It's easy. Chuck Hall. You'll see his gorgeous face, like some hair, got a lot of hair. Anyway, uh thanks for listening. Uh, if you're still in the show with us, thank you. Uh, if this is your first time, I hope it's the first of many. And and get out there, whoever you are, to to cutting a tie to whatever's holding you back from that success. But don't forget to find that success first. Thanks for listening.

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Thomas Helfrich

Host