“Shortcuts and Soundbites Don’t Work” - Dr Rosie Ward on Future Proofing Leadership in a Disruptive World

What happens when leadership advice sounds good on paper but fails the moment real pressure shows up? In this episode of Cut The Tie, Thomas Helfrich sits down with Dr Rosie Ward to unpack why quick fixes, check-the-box training, and surface-level leadership development continue to fail modern organizations.

Rosie explains why disruption is not slowing down, why human behavior is the real bottleneck in scaling leadership and culture, and what executives must confront if they want organizations that actually work. This conversation is especially relevant for leaders who feel stuck managing people problems that no strategy deck seems to solve.

About Dr Rosie Ward:
Dr Rosie Ward is the CEO of Salveo Partners, a leadership and culture consulting firm based in Minneapolis. She specializes in future proofing organizations by strengthening culture, leveling up leaders, and helping teams navigate change without getting hijacked by their own human instincts. Rosie holds a PhD in organization and management and has spent her career studying the intersection of leadership, culture, and human behavior. She is the author of Rehumanizing the Workplace and an upcoming book, Future Proofing Leadership.

In this episode, Thomas and Rosie discuss:

• Why shortcuts and soundbites fail leaders
  Rosie explains why leadership development fails when organizations skip the inner work and jump straight to tools, tips, and training modules.
• The “stuckness zone” that derails change
  How disruption triggers self-protective behavior, resistance, blame, and division inside teams and why this gap keeps widening.
• Toxic workplaces and the cost of bad leadership
  Rosie shares her own experiences in unhealthy environments and why culture directly erodes or strengthens human performance.
• The inner operating system behind leadership behavior
  Why most leaders are unknowingly operating from outdated internal programs that quietly sabotage decision making.
• Self limiting mindsets that block growth
  Rosie breaks down common faulty programs like the overachiever, martyr, perfectionist, and counterfeit and how they show up at work.

Key Takeaways:

• Leadership problems are rarely skill problems
  Until the inner operating system is addressed, tools and training will not stick.
• Human behavior drives culture, not policy
  If leaders do not understand how people react under pressure, culture will always break down.
• Growth requires ongoing internal upgrades
  This is not a one-time fix. Leadership development is an ongoing practice.
• Letting go is necessary to scale
  Leaders must release control to grow beyond themselves.
• Future proofing starts with courage
  The ability to face uncertainty and lead with authenticity separates effective leaders from struggling ones.

Connect with Dr Rosie Ward:

💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rward/

🌐 Website: https://salveopartners.com

Connect with Thomas Helfrich:
🐦 Twitter: https://twitter.com/thelfrich
💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thelfrich/
🌐 Website: https://www.cutthetie.com
📧 Email: t@instantlyrelevant.com
🚀 Instantly Relevant:

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome And Guest Introduction
• 1:02 What Makes Salveo Partners Different
• 3:04 Defining Success By Values And Impact
• 4:16 Career Pivot And Toxic Cultures
• 6:08 The Stuckness Zone And Human Instincts
• 8:14 Cutting Ties With Self-Limiting Programs
• 10:25 The Seven Faulty Programs Explained
• 13:05 How Long Real Change Actually Takes
• 15:18 Why Inner Work Beats Quick Fixes
• 17:23 Scaling A Firm Without Losing Yourself
• 19:06 Books That Build Courageous Leaders
• 20:35 Lessons From Dare To Lead
• 22:00 If Starting Over: Choose Alignment
• 23:10 The One Link And Who Should Visit
• 25:20 Closing Challenge: Define Success

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:00

Welcome to the Cut the Tide Podcast. Hello. I'm your host, Thomas Helfer. I'm on a mission to help you cut the tie to whatever it is. Holding you back from success. And you have to define that success yourself because you're chasing someone else's dream if you don't. Today I'm joined by Dr. Rosie Ward. Doctor, should I go Doctor or Rosie? Which one do you want? Dr.

SPEAKER_00: 0:16

Uh, we can be Rosie. It's fine.

SPEAKER_01: 0:19

Rosie, how are you today?

SPEAKER_00: 0:20

I am doing splendidly. Thank you very much. I mean, it's sunny. It's it's another day. You know, what does Pitbull say every day above ground is a good day? So here we are.

SPEAKER_01: 0:30

I can tell I'll take all the old I can get. Uh you would take a moment, introduce yourself, where you're from, what you do.

SPEAKER_00: 0:37

Well, I am Dr. Rosie Ward. I am the CEO of a company called Saleo Partners based out of Minneapolis, and we focus on future-proofing organizations by strengthening their culture and leveling up leaders and teams to better navigate change and disruption and the whole messiness of being human. So that's what we do.

SPEAKER_01: 0:56

Seems like a it's a a lot of people involved, not uh what you know.

SPEAKER_00: 1:00

The messiness of being people would have people involved, yes.

SPEAKER_01: 1:03

Those AIs run the companies, there's no people involved, and we're all golfing um or skiing, whatever you guys do up there in Minnesota. Uh cross-country skiing, it's lacrosse the former Lake Calhoun. Big sturgeon in that lake, just big sturgeon with the T show. Yes. Uh tell me why you guys get picked. Like there's a lot of people company, companies, people in the space here. But what's your unique uh take on it?

SPEAKER_00: 1:27

Yeah, I love this question because we actually did a ton of work with our business mentors and on ourselves over the years, evolving to go what makes us different from every other firm that does leadership development, that does coaching, that does culture, because there's like a gajillion out there. And I think what we've really come to is it is that idea of future-proofing. And so you brought up AI that in this world of disruption that is never going to stop getting less disruptive, what we do is care for what we call the stuckness zone or a gap. So the more disruptive our world gets, the more it innately triggers our biological human instincts to self-protect and cling tightly to what is familiar. And we could get into the whole science behind it, but that's what happens. And so as you start to see people resisting change, you start to see incivility, you start to see divisiveness, you start to see less connection and blaming and judgment and all of this that is going on in workplaces in our society, we believe a huge contributor is this gap that we call the stuckness zone. And what we do is we care for how do you recognize that messiness of being human and help people move through that stuckness zone and close that gap because it's getting wider and wider and wider. And so shortcuts and you know, sound bites don't work. And in a world of AI, everything you read right now says the future of leadership and the future of workplaces is we have to level up people's human-centric skills. And it sounds soft and whatever, but it's even more and more critical because of that disruption that AI brings to an already disruptive world. So we care for that gap. We move people through the stockness zone in a way that is sustainable and practical.

SPEAKER_01: 3:01

Well, so as you're talking today, give somebody one link to kind of just check out, you know, as you're doing the voiceover on our conversation. It's mostly for the AD and HD or who can't just listen now.

SPEAKER_00: 3:10

Yeah, they're like, Yeah. So if they want to go check us out, go to our company website, which is salveopartners.com, S-A-L-V-O partners.com. And that also links over to like my podcast and speaking page and blog, but it has everything about what we do there. It has our white paper that I'll probably be talking about. It has links to our books, it has links to everything. And so that would be the best place to go check stuff out.

SPEAKER_01: 3:33

Well, wonderful. Uh let's start with you. Uh, so how do you define success?

SPEAKER_00: 3:37

For me personally, I define success if I have done two things. If I can lay my head on the pillow at the end of the day and feel like I, even if the day was crappy as hell, that I showed up in a way that I'm proud, meaning that I am aligned with my values and that I hopefully added a little sparkle to somebody's day. And if I have done those two things that I'm like, if I got hit by a bus tomorrow, I'm good and I'm golden. So that's for me, it's really looking at each day, how do I ground myself in my values? How do I make a difference or add sparkle in someone's life? And that's that's the best we can do because the world is so uncertain.

SPEAKER_01: 4:14

Yeah. Well, let's talk about your journey a little bit. So you back up to wherever you like, but uh, you know, how did you uh how'd you get where you are today? And and then, you know, what's kind of one of the big metaphoric ties you had to cut to achieve that success you just defined?

SPEAKER_00: 4:28

I love this question and the re the reader's digest version for people who are old enough to remember what reader's digest is.

SPEAKER_01: 4:36

Yeah, it did.

SPEAKER_00: 4:37

It was a little little magazine. I actually just found one at my parents' house. I was like, oh my goodness. Anyway, uh, so I actually started out it thinking I was gonna go into psychology, changed a major in undergrad and went into kinesiology, exercise science, got a public health degree, which will be something that I would redo, but that we'll get to that later. And I started out in worksite wellness because I thought, oh, like help people be healthier and it seemed really good. And I realized that the way that whole field was going about it was completely misguided. And and I literally had this thought of I've just wasted 80 grand on two degrees and this shit doesn't work. What did I what did I do with my life? And I had the first experience, and I say this lightly of being in a leadership role. I had a title, but I didn't know what the hell I was doing. I had no one to mentor me and I was screwing it up left and right. And I uh it just sucked. And I got had my first experience of being in a workplace that was toxic and eroded my well-being. So I have fitness certifications and degrees, and I was gaining weight, I was getting sick all the time. And I thought, okay, this is backwards. So I decided to go back to school and get my PhD in organization and management and really focus on culture and leadership because I'm like, there's this intersection, right? If you have an organization that is not healthy, the individuals that work within it cannot be the best version of themselves. And you can be the best version of yourself and get put into a workplace that is toxic and has poor leadership, and it's gonna erode that quicker than you can think. So they they're very much interconnected. And so that really started my journey. Started getting into coaching, started learning how to consult and really testing out this theory of we have to do things differently if we're gonna have thriving workplaces. And so um, then I had my second experience of a toxic work environment in this consulting farm and decided screw this, life is too short. Uh, and so Seleo Partners was originally launched as a side hustle and then eventually grew into like, let's really let's be intentional about this and let's my hope is that we spend so much time at work that we can, if we can equip organizations by their leaders and teams and improving their culture to not get hijacked by their own humanness as much, then we're gonna have fewer experiences like I've had twice in my life. And by the time my soon-to-be 15-year-old son gets in the workplace full time, I really hope that we don't have movies like bad bosses, you know, horrible bosses one and two, and shows like The Office because they're not funny, because no one can relate. Well, they are that would be amazing. I'd work myself out of a job, but I mean, like, I'm like, this is just this is not okay.

SPEAKER_01: 7:03

As long as humans are involved, you're gonna have a job doing what you're doing. No question about it. Uh and you know, you you and I appreciate the piece, you know. What was though the you know, the major tie? Was it was it just letting go of the corporate job that you thought you were gonna have and you had to get through that? What was kind of the biggest, like how what did you have to fix out?

SPEAKER_00: 7:24

I will say the major tie that I had to cut, which feeds into the work that we do is a critical aspect of leveling up leaders and teams to move through that stuckness zone I mentioned, is I had to do a boatload of work on myself to cut the tie of self-limiting mindsets that were fundamentally holding me back and getting in my way way more than I realized. And that's the work that we now do with leaders. I don't care if someone is a CEO of a billion-dollar tech company because I've coached them. I don't care if somebody is a world-renowned surgeon or a student or anyone in between. It's part of our human experience to have these self-limiting narratives and self-limiting stories. We've identified, uh, we've identified the most common. We call them our seven core faulty programs. It's kind of like the operating system on your phone or your computer that is quietly working against us. And if we don't intentionally do the work to upgrade them, instead of us showing up as an adult, we're basically all showing up as insecure 10-year-old versions. Your colleague who's acting like a butthead, it's not their 30, 40, 50 self, it's their 10-year-old self in that moment showing up. You know, your neighbor that's pissing you off in that moment, they're probably not showing up as the adult version of themselves. It's the 10-year-old. And so when we can start to realize that we have a bunch of 10-year-olds running around on any given day trying to make complex decisions and navigate through strategy and do all these things, it doesn't work so well. So that's so for me, it was doing my own work and then using that to channel into our own research where we started to look at, we took hundreds and hundreds of leaders and started to look at the most common mindsets that they have that get in their way and what it, where are they trying to get better, but they get stuck. And that's how we came up with our faulty program. So I had to cut my own faulty programs in order to, in order to do what I'm doing. And I have to, it's an ongoing practice, by the way. It's not a, oh, I cut the tie, I'm done. You do an initial cut and then you have to kind of trim it along the way because it's not, it's it's a journey. It's not a check the box, be done.

SPEAKER_01: 9:14

It's uh it's interesting. You said that you had a you know kind of self-limiting beliefs. What was the big one that I'll ask, what was the one that was hardest to get over? And what was the impact once you did?

SPEAKER_00: 9:25

Yeah. So I always say that when I get hijacked, the description I give it is that I get into hyper independent, hyper productive, pain in the ass, get shit done mode. And then I take on too much, and it's all like trying to prove yourself. So the faulty programs that I had was one we call the counterfeit, and that's the most common, a feeling like you're not enough and you're you're don't belong and you're gonna be you're gonna be found out, and that you know, you have to be something other than you are and you have to hide parts yourself, et cetera. And then combined with overachiever, which overachievers, we believe that when that program is hijacking us, we fundamentally believe that our value is conditional and tied to our accomplishments and how productive we are. And so we're constantly trying to be more and more productive to add value and feel like we're worthy. And it's it's a recipe for burnout. And then you put that hand in hand with a faulty program we call the martyr. And the martyr is hyper-independent. It's either we don't want to appear selfish or a burden to people, or we don't feel like we can rely on other people. So we take on and do everything ourselves. And then the other one that I had was the perfectionist, which is fairly self-explanatory. And what I would say is I've done the work to upgrade most of them. I've gotten pretty good at that. The one that is still my kryptonite is the overachiever. But it's shifted. I no longer believe that my value is conditional on what I get done, but I am so hardwired for productivity and getting stuff done. And there's times it serves me well, but when it doesn't, I take on too much and then I get task focused and I don't have time for the things that matter for me. And it's hard for me to be grounded in my values. So I will say, as I let go of like the martyr and I started asking for help and letting people help me, it's like, wow, I have this amazing community. When I let go of perfectionism and I'm just like, I'm embracing my humanity today. Oh my God, the stress level and the pressure that I had on me, beautiful. When I let go of the counterfeit and trying to like fit myself into a mold or be something I'm not, and just finally admit, like my favorite color is sparkle, and here we are, and this is me. Um, it's it's like relieving, it's energizing, it's peaceful. So all of those are like, I'm so grateful that those are for the most part gone. It's the ongoing battle with this productivity overachieving wiring. But when you're an entrepreneur and you own your own business, you've got to, you've got to regulate because it can absolutely take you out and be the death of you. And you got to be really clear of how much you actually are taking on. Does this make sense? Does this not make sense? And so I have I have post-it notes all over my computer that help me regulate the overachiever.

SPEAKER_01: 11:50

Yeah, it's it's funny. I'm glad your martyr didn't didn't move into uh the Munchausen error where you start creating problems that you have to solve yourself, right? And throw you in the martyr for doing it. Um excuse me. Uh those are pretty big ones. Uh how long did that take you to kind of get to the point where you're like through it, knowing that you had to work on it? Yeah. How long did it take, I guess, to clear the path to that for us initially?

SPEAKER_00: 12:15

Yeah, well, I would say initially it's a good. So this is the coaching process that we put with people. The initial upgrade, I call it, is a good, probably eight-month process of intentional work and intentional exercises to identify what that those faulty programs are, how they show up, and then start to do the work to kind of poke holes in their validity and upgrade them. And then I will say that once you do that initial upgrade, then there's gonna be stress and life is gonna do what it does, and they try to kind of creep back in and take over. So I equate it to like when your computer gets stuck and you have to do like a hard reboot or your phone gets stuck and you have to do a hard reboot. Um, there's been subsequent re-upgrades, if you will, along the way that you that's when I say it's the ongoing work, but I would say the initial cringy was a brown and eight-month process. And then it's kind of being mindful of leaning on practices along the way to constantly be doing like mini, mini upgrades, if that makes sense, to the next to the next iOS.

SPEAKER_01: 13:11

If you if you take, well, I say if you take more on the Apple side of that, not Windows, because you can kind of swap components for a long time with Windows, and they'll still work slower than others, but they'll work. But if you're if you the Apple one's better, and the reason at some point what you have is no longer supported. Yeah. And so what you're doing at some point in the 70s was okay to smack them in the ass and do whatever it is. Like, can't do that now. You can't smoke in the office now. Like, I mean, like it's just not like that Apple model is no longer available.

SPEAKER_00: 13:36

So well, and we refer to the iOS as our inner operating system, and that's the work that we do. Like, if we don't recognize, so here's here's what we typically do is organizations want to level up their leadership bench strength. They want to have succession planning, they want to have good culture, and so, but they are also thinking about scalability and whatnot, and they don't understand how humans work. So, what do we do? Here, we have this nice learning management system where we're gonna send you to LinkedIn learning and you're gonna take this module on how to have better boundaries or time management and or how to have um better feedback conversations and you should be done. But I'm telling you right now, if you have somebody who has the martyr programming, all the time management and boundary books that you try to give them is not gonna work until they do the upgrade of why it makes it so unsettling for them to let others in. Or if you have people who have the People Pleaser program, all of the workshops you put them through on how to have courageous conversations are going to fall flat until they do the upgrade work of that inner operating system that tells them that, but if I speak up, people won't like me. But if I piss them off, then my value is diminished. Whatever that narrated, that head trash is that people have. So we talk about you have to do the inner operating system work or the upgrade work first. And then all of those skills and tips that you can lean on over and over for subsequent upgrades become more helpful. But we tend to do it backwards. We just want to jump to like the behaviors, the skills, the tip sheets, whatever, because it's tangible and it's easy. But then we wonder why it doesn't work.

SPEAKER_01: 15:02

Well, and I think part part of the challenge in that is is the organization want to appear they're trying to help the organization, or do they actually want to uh enable it and help the people in it? So there is a fundamental difference. Like we just want to check the box. We don't actually truly care.

SPEAKER_00: 15:17

Be great, you know, but or it's just it's too uncomfortable. Either they don't care or it's just it's too uncomfortable, or they're like, oh, this isn't scalable, or this takes too much effort. And it's like, well, you can come up with a strategy of how do you do this in a meaningful way. Um, but then but then when they're sitting there, you know, a couple of years from now or more and they're stuck and they are like, oh, well, you know, here you go. It's kind of that old proverbial frog in a boiling pot of water, right? You do these incremental increases and they don't see it, but all of a sudden, ooh, they're in hot water, and then they want you to like fix people overnight. Well, it doesn't work that way. So we have to turn over tsunami, we have quiet quitting, whatever term is the of du jour. And you know, they're they're they're struggling for talent, they're struggling for retention, they're struggling for engagement, and suddenly they want a quick fix and they don't realize what you need to do is your leaders need to do this inner operating system upgrade work, and your teams collectively need to have core and common language and tools so that they can work better together. And you also have to build in systems in your organization to support it. So if you don't have all three, it's not gonna work.

SPEAKER_01: 16:20

Now, in your own kind of world, business life, whatever, what is the current tie you're struggling to cut?

SPEAKER_00: 16:26

I would say the current tie that I am struggling to cut is figuring out the balance of how much am I in the weeds of client delivery work and how much am I of like the strategy grow, um, et cetera. So, you know, as we bring on more consultants, you know, it's hard because you have the clients that are like, but they're not you and you know, I want you. And it's like, and how do you maintain those relationships and introduce new people and you know, because your bandwidth is only so much. And so I think that um it's that scaling part of, you know, what parts do you hold on to in the interest of client relationships and where is it okay to bring somebody else in and nurture that relationship along so they feel good about it? And I think it's just an ongoing um challenge that I know I need to get out of the weeds more to give the consultants more opportunity and I am the face of the business. And it's hard because I don't want to fully get out of it because I also do like the delivery work to a point. So that's really the tie that I'm struggling with is like, what does that balance? Balance is nothing is balanced, but what does that, I don't know, that harmony, if you are that integration look like? And I haven't quite figured it out. So that's an ongoing, an ongoing thing.

SPEAKER_01: 17:35

You're you're moving on to my world where that's what we do for companies and and the leaders is help you do exactly what you're gonna go. So we'll talk that offline of of of how you, you know, the brand around the business and not you, and you're the it there's a lot of ways to do that. And uh similar to what you just described, it is not an overnight thing uh because you got to get comfortable decoupling yourself from it. But the bit but the tie you're trying to cut right is a major one because it allows you uh it releases control, which is frightening, but it allows you to sell, allows you to exit. And it it's getting through that. So so we do a lot of work with you know, from billion dollar to like solopreneurs on that exact tie. So listen up, that tie to cut of letting go so you can do the things you need to to grow the business and on the business. Um, once again, I don't think you can do the EOS, I don't think you can do these little like books, and this is a like every one of our clients work with me one-on-one because it's such an intimate process because it gets into the weeds of what you're really struggling with, that you're never gonna say here or what like we'll get into that. So we'll take that offline. I love solving that problem because I watch you go from like you know, a few million revenue to offers for 10 or 12 to buy it, and you're like, oh I'm out. Go to Florida, playing down. I'm just uprojecting that's what I would do probably at some point. Uh maybe not Florida. Some we'll figure it out. We'll talk about where I'm going next. Uh is there a book you think that any um I don't I want to go to the entrepreneur out, but just from from your client base. Yeah, like someone's listening to this, whatever. Like, what's the one book you think leaders uh who who are you know they're struggling with this problem that they should read first?

SPEAKER_00: 19:15

Yeah, well, besides our book, so my my I mean obviously shameless cloak time.

SPEAKER_01: 19:20

Go to the show.

SPEAKER_00: 19:21

Well, well, my new book, my new book is called Future Proofing Leadership, and it unpacks these faulty programs and how do you future proof at an organizational level? And that is actually coming out later this year, so it's not quite out yet. My previous book is called Rehumanizing the Workplace, and we kind of dig also into this interoperating system, and so that's a start. But if besides our own, I would say the one hands down is Brene Brown's Dare to Lead. I trained with her in 2019. I'm one of her certified facilitators. And so much of what she talks about of our need for courage, and it's it's database, but it's very practical. We weave that into a lot of what we do because a lot of what gets in our way is we're not going to lean into vulnerability. We we're not going to be authentic. We show up in ways that are not productive because our self-protective instincts are hijacking us. And so I think that that one is very eye-opening and practical for uh a lot of people. So I I always recommend that one as well.

SPEAKER_01: 20:14

Uh what did you most take from that book? Do you think? Like what was the really like you're like like even sometimes you read the line, you're like, I could stop now, but then you're like, I gotta do the how part, but you know, what was the what was the one?

SPEAKER_00: 20:25

Yeah, well, the well, there's two things. I will say the biggest one is just what she found from her research and where the book came from, is that the future demands braver leaders and courageous cultures. And that's the heart of the work that we do. Like we are not, it's the old saying, what got you here is not gonna get you there. If we think that we can avoid vulnerability, if we think that we don't have to lean into uncertainty, risk, and emotional exposure and we're gonna be future ready, like you're you're fooling yourself. And all the CEOs of global companies all concluded like this is what's needed for the future of leadership. So that's that was an aha of like I intuitively knew it and we've been talking about it. And it was like the affirmation of this is what we've been saying for what feels like forever. I will say the second thing that is I really appreciate about that book and her work in particular and being a steward of it is that courage is not some nebulous thing. It is made up of four very specific skill sets that are observable, measurable, and teachable. So it's not this far out thing, you know, oh, go be like the lion. It's like, no, like we can actually walk you through very practical exercises to build these skills. And that for me was is huge because if you don't have something actionable, what what it's not it's not helpful.

SPEAKER_01: 21:31

Yeah, and I've worked at those places myself where horrible behavior is encouraged at every level, and they're open about it. Like, well, you know, if you don't like that, you're not gonna live at work here. So you you quietly quit for three years, right? And and some point you have to recognize it's beyond what you can control. Like, right? You can't make the weather not rain today. It's always raining here, so you might want to move. So I think there's some like realization of where you are, not to fight through it, but you know, I think it's uh you can apply that to relationships, business partners, there's a bunch of stuff that it goes to. Yeah. If you had to start over today, when would you go back into your timeline and what would you do differently?

SPEAKER_00: 22:09

On one hand, I say I wouldn't do anything differently because it's it actually has shaped who I am and what I'm doing. But if there was one thing, I think when I went and got my master's degree, I fell into a public health master's degree because at the time in Worksite Wellness, there weren't other master's degree. I'm like, well, what I knew I needed, what what do you do? And I literally hated every moment of that degree, with the exception of one class. And the class that I loved was management and leadership and healthcare. And that should have been a sign for me that I should have like gotten my master's in organizational development or organizational leadership or something like that, because that was what lit me up. So here I spent a bunch of money. I think it was back in the day, it was probably 60 grand on that darn degree. And I got one class out of it that I leveraged. Um, but um, but I, you know, again, again, I got additional degree and certifications. But I think going back of like falling into what seems like you should do versus what I really was passionate about. Like everything about as I looked at the courses, I was like, ugh, but I just had this. I feel like I should. So I would go back and go, well, don't don't should on me, says who, and what really feels um aligned, and maybe talk to some more people uh before I made that decision.

SPEAKER_01: 23:20

Yeah, it's the that's a that's one you probably could still bump. It's probably probably doesn't change your trajectory that much. Just end of the day. Um but I understand the like the perspective on it. It's it's like uh it's hard to go back. You know, there's some certain things you could definitely go back. I I know I could do, but like that one I would say is that's you're in a good spot. You it sounds like you're really in it. These happened for me, and that's a nice place to be in life. Good energy, people, solid. She's improved. All right. If there's a question I should have asked today and I didn't, what is that question? How do you answer it?

SPEAKER_00: 23:53

I would say to ask, really, I mean, we kind of talked about a little bit, but really thinking about like what are the most common reasons that we get in our own way. And I we already answered it, which is really these faulty programs that you can identify. I will say shameless plug, which I know is coming. But if you go to my website under our white papers, we did release a white paper in January that is a precursor to the book that gives you a sense of like what are each of the faulty programs, how do you start the upgrade process? What are the most common goals leaders struggle with? And my intent of doing that is I want to normalize the messiness of being human, but also say, like, are you focusing on the right things for your organization? Are you focusing on the right things for yourself? Are you focusing on the right things collectively that will make a difference? And I think so often we spin our wheels because we don't know what that what that is. So I would say you actually we already kind of covered it.

unknown: 24:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 24:44

You could good job, good job. Yay, we covered it already.

SPEAKER_01: 24:48

Well, you know, shameless plug though. Like, you know, I I tell people you I always ask, just give me one link that people should go to. And usually people dump like eight or nine on me. But I'm like, what is the one link and who should be the one going to it?

SPEAKER_00: 25:00

Yeah. So I said it earlier at salveopartners.com, S-A-L-V-E-O partners.com. And there's links over to my Dr. Rosie Award website, which you can see speaking and my that's where my podcast is located and everything. And it has all my social links. So that's that's your go-to to find any other link about me. Just go there. Um, and I think, you know, it's a combination of people who really want to show up as a leader in their life, regardless of title or role, because I don't believe that leadership is about a title or role, it's about how we show up so we can be a leader in our personal life and at work. And I think people who work in the space of learning and development, in human resources, business owners, business leaders, because that's what we're all about is how do you future-proof leadership and future-proof organizations on an individual level and on an organizational level. And so people who care about humans, people who care about culture, people who care about being a better version of themselves, that's those are the people who we work with and who we partner with.

unknown: 25:56

Awesome.

SPEAKER_01: 25:56

Thank you so much for coming on today. Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00: 25:58

It was a pleasure. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_01: 26:00

And then listen, if you made this point in the show, thank you for being here. If it was your first time, I do hope it's the first of many. And if you've been here before, you know what I'm about to say. Get out there, go cut a tie to whatever's holding you back. First, own and define your own success.