The Spectrum of Relationships

Today we're going to be talking about the spectrum of relationships: friendships, hook ups, the healthy ones, unhealthy ones, and why they can be so complicated. We also discuss the importance of having healthy boundaries in all of our relationships.

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Marissa: Welcome to the Silver Linings podcast. I'm Marissa Whitaker. I work with students discussing the relationship between substance use and their well being.

Jen: And I'm Jen Talarico. I'm a senior mental health counselor. We work in Conley Counseling and Wellness, and we are passionate about understanding the human condition.

Marissa: Sometimes life can be tough. This podcast acknowledges life's complexities by using an optimistic and humorous approach.

Today we're going to be talking about the spectrum of relationships, the healthy ones, the unhealthy ones, and why they can be so complicated.

Jen: So first we're going to dive into what do healthy relationships even look like? And this can be different for everyone, obviously, based off of, you know, where we've been in life and what we're looking for.

But there are some common things, common threads that typically are in healthy relationship.

So when looking at healthy relationships, typically the most important components are feeling valued, feeling heard, having healthy communication, which often involves trust, honesty, and feeling safe, both emotionally and physically.

Marissa: Going along with that communication and trust piece, we need to examine what our roles and expectations are in relationships. For example, are you looking for someone or expecting someone to be your best friend?

Because sometimes we can have our friends that are fun to go out with. Doesn't mean we're going to tell them our deepest, darkest secrets. And then within your friend group, are you the honest friend or the mom, the caretaker?

When everybody's drinking, you're the one making sure everyone's getting home safe.

I know, Jen, we've laughed about, like, being the counselor friend.

Jen: I think, like, you know, even looking back, obviously I'm a counselor, but even thinking back, this probably was my role in my friend group a long time ago. Yeah, even within our group, I think we, you know, it's fun to look back and think forward and even, you know, currently examine, like, what is my role?

Right. Like, you know, am I. Yeah. I have a friend in my friend group that is the honest friend. If I want to know if I look good or not, she is gonna tell me point blank.

Where everyone else might sugarcoat it a little bit.

Marissa: But then also we have those friends who can be the emotional vampires that every time you're with them, they suck the energy and the life right out of you. It's draining to be friends with this friend.

And sometime whether that's they're complaining about everything going on, everything seems to be a storm cloud of just doom and dread that can get exhausting, especially if it's a really good friend who you've had for a long time.

And Then friendships are changing a little bit.

Jen: Right. Like, you might not want the role of being the counselor.

Marissa: Yes.

Jen: Or even to this friend. Right. Like, you might be. You might be being put in a role that you're not comfortable with or.

Marissa: Just, like, listening sometimes even just it's hard to listen when everything's a droning complaint.

Jen: Right. And not knowing, like, is this person always going to drain me, like you said, and are they there for me on the opposite end of this? Right. Like, we have these roles and expectations.

Are our needs not being met because that person's never there for us in the same way.

Marissa: Yeah.

Jen: Along with this, I think about, you know, as we're talking about friends at college also, sometimes you have your core friend group. Some people do core friend group established when young or in middle school or high school.

And sometimes it's wonderful. Those kind of stand the test of time. And are your friends through college and later on into life, which can be hard in some ways because then you come to college and you compare everyone to them.

Like, I've had a lot of students where, you know, I'm meeting people, but it doesn't feel like home. Doesn't feel like my friends at home. Or maybe the opposite, where that group is no longer the same level of spectrum, you know, the same level on the spectrum as when you were younger.

You start to get older, you outgrow, and then, you know, maybe you're only speaking every couple of months or checking in versus every day, touching base about your lives.

Marissa: Yeah, yeah. And. And it's okay to outgrow some of your friends from home. Maybe they were a fantastic friend, you know, in childhood. But you're changing. Your friends are evolving, and what you need out of friendships can evolve.

So there's nothing wrong with growing apart from some of your childhood friends. You have to have some room in your life for new friendships as well. And that doesn't mean cut off your friends from high school.

But if you're hanging on to relationships and you're not getting things out of it and your friends, just because you've been friends for a long time, that's not healthy. E.

Right.

Jen: Like, your needs might not be met.

Marissa: Right.

Jen: Anymore at that point. And we change. Right. I mean, that's life. Like, who we were three years ago isn't who we are now. It's not who we're going to be in three years from now.

And it's great if people also change along with us and that effort is put in. We're gonna talk a little more about that in a little bit. But Marissa says it's also okay to admit, you know, things are changing.

When we think of the spectrum, I think sometimes we're very, like, concrete. Like, we want everyone at that far end of best friends. And if it starts to slip, we feel slighted or upset or highly anxious.

And it doesn't always have to be that way. We can step back and just look at it from, you know, is this just healthy change and natural change?

Marissa: And sometimes you notice that there is that change when you try to merge your friends from high school with your friends from college.

Jen: Like, it's like bringing someone you're dating home to meet your parents. Like, you're like, hopefully everyone gets along well.

Marissa: Yeah. And then sometimes there can be some competition because it's like, well, we were best friends for years. Well, now we're best friends and we live in the same hallway. So proximity, it's sometimes hard.

Hard to balance all of that and.

Jen: Different parts of ourselves. I know in a previous podcast, we talked a little bit about just, you know, we're. The importance of connection. But how, you know, we're different people sometimes with different friend groups, different family, work, school, all of that.

So you might be, you know, really outgoing and wild with this one fun group, but, you know, more reserved. You know, it's just interesting, like, sometimes figuring out who, like those roles again, like, who am I in this situation with these individuals?

There's, like, another place where roles and expectations are huge. Is dating, like, romantic relationships.

Marissa: Yeah. Do we want to hook up with this person or do we want to date this person? What does hooking up look like to you? For some people, that's making out.

For other people that's having sex. We need to set up what expectations we have in relationships so we can set boundaries with other people and sometimes adjusting what those expectations are to meet the reality that we're living in.

Jen: Yeah, I love that you're saying that, too, because I think sometimes we think, like, you know, they're not meeting my needs, and it's like, do you even know what you want?

Right. Like, I'm upset because they're not committing to me, but I don't know if I want to actually be committed or I'm also talking to other people.

Marissa: Right. Or if the. The pretense of the relationship is we're going to hook up, but then you catch some feelings and you want a relationship. If the other person that was not their expectation, you know, there's nothing wrong with.

You feel that way. But that might not be Reciprocated.

Jen: Right. And just being aware of that. I think, again, looking at our roles in these situations, sometimes you. You might become more of the emotional partner or girlfriend or boyfriend, and maybe they're dating someone else or maybe they're talking to other people.

It's just that I can. I can change them and I'll give them time or this is why they're not getting back to me. Sometimes it's just kind of slowing it down and thinking, you know, looking at it from, like, an outside perspective, you know, what does this actually look like?

What are they actually offering me? And is my.

My role not meeting reality? Right. Is expectation not lining up with what's really happening?

Marissa: Yes. Like, there is unrequited love that you may be. And I know that this exists with all of you because I see it on Yik Yak that, like, I'm in love with you and you don't know I exist.

It's okay for you to have feelings about someone, but they literally might not know that you're a person.

Jen: And as we said in the beginning, it gets complicated. Right. Because then, you know, you want to hold out hope. You want to see where things go. And sometimes, again, like another podcast we previously done talked about gaslighting and ghosting and how confusing all of that gets, too.

So I think it's just. Yeah. Being aware of what your role is for yourself, for someone else, your expectations with this. And just, again, healthy relationships, you can communicate. You can say, like, hey, where do you see this going?

Or, hey, this is how I'm feeling. Sometimes we get so afraid that we're going to push someone away when really, like, if us saying we have feelings is going to make someone run away from us, it's probably important that we know that.

Marissa: Right. And know it early on rather than later. After you've invested time, energy, feelings into this, like, they might just not call you back, and that's okay. Or I can change them.

Jen: And maybe you can, but also maybe you won't.

Marissa: And tying this back to where we were talking about the roles in relationships between maybe romantic relationships and friendships, how do you balance friendships? In relationships, there's always that one friend that loses communication with their peers once they start dating someone.

And then once they break up, it's like, hey, back in your life again. How do you balance that? Or you're calling your friend for the 855th time because you broke up again.

What is that like for you? But then what's that like for that friend? Having to be that constant Vote of reassurance. When the same mistakes are happening the same. When the same patterns seem to be falling into play.

Jen: Right. Like, what role are we putting on to other people?

Marissa: Yes, yes, right, right. Which is a great segue into the role that we play within our family systems.

Jen: Yeah. So again, every relationship is going to have these same kind of components. So when looking at roles within family systems, I think, you know, we think of like, quote unquote, normal.

Like, what do we see socially, culturally, on TV or in our movies? Things like that. Usually there are caretakers that might be a mother and a father. Right. But we know that's not always the case in the real world.

Right. We're lucky to have caretakers however they look or, you know, we are often seen that you get to be the child. Right. And you get to have siblings. And, you know, even though there's normal life conflict, it's kind of harmonious.

Everyone gets along and is supported. We know in the real world that's not what happens a lot of the time.

Marissa: Right.

Jen: So sometimes with those roles, the child or even like, you know, it could be teenage or young adult, but even as a young child, sometimes you're kind of the parent. You're the caretaker.

You might be more aware of some things and taking care of your parent more than they're parenting you, which can be really difficult.

Marissa: Yeah. And that's. That's something I see a lot when talking to students who might not want to be drinking and their friend group cannot fathom why they just don't want to go out.

Why? It's fun. It's fun, but you don't know. Did that person put their parent to bed every night since childhood, since they were an adolescent, did that person have to make sure dinner was on the table because their parents were incapacitated to do something?

So there's usually a reason why if somebody doesn't want to drink and just really respecting that about people. And we have no idea the home life that people come from.

Jen: In a previous podcast, we talked about love languages and attachment styles. And our childhood experiences can really impact our attachment styles, which then go into these roles and expectations, whether with our family, our friends, dating.

Right. So, you know, really thinking about those roles and expectations are there for a reason. And if, you know, we're in a healthy place with them, great, that's fortunate. Sometimes it means we had healthy examples or we've just been really resilient and we've been able to learn and reflect and grow.

Other times, if we're struggling or Others are struggling, maybe just, you know, there's some attachment stuff going on that, you know, needs to be more examined or figured out or fostered.

Usually there's again, there's a reason why we're taking on the roles or having certain expectations where we are currently in life.

Marissa: Another area where there can be roles and expectations that are set are at work. Our work relationships.

Love those memes. When you see, like, we're a family here, and I'm like, well, families can be dysfunctional. And also sometimes that might be a red flag. We're supposed to have boundaries.

You can be close to some of these people. Your boss isn't your mom or your best friend.

Jen: Like, sometimes it can be confusing. If it's like after work we're all going out for drinks, it's like, okay, what, what's my role now? Right? Like, can I make it really confusing?

Or even sometimes, you know, like your best friends might be the people you work with, which is awesome and is wonderful, but it can also just change the dynamic a little bit of like, what are these roles?

What are the expectations exactly?

Marissa: Going back to what you were saying about being friends with your boss, I had a job once where I was friends with the boss. And I remember one Sunday, she's like, we need you to come in.

We're short staffed. And I'm like, girl, like, it's Sunday, it's the Lord's day. I'm not doing anything.

But she was serious. She's like, no, I'm telling you as your boss, you need to come in right now. And that was super complicated because of like, are you telling me this is your friend who needs help or are you telling me as my employer?

Because there was not a healthy boundary there that made things really complicated. So lessons learned. You can be friendly with your boss, with your co workers, but just remember at the end of the day what that dynamic looks like as well.

Jen: Right. And. And can you not say no?

Marissa: Yeah, it was so hard. I was there at 10 o'clock that morning and I was not happy about it because my friend asked me to do a favor. So.

Jen: Right. In all these situations, again, like all these different roles, there's different pressures and insecurities too that might pop up. Right. Like, we might really want our boss. Obviously, that depends if you get good shifts, if you get raises.

Marissa: Right.

Jen: Like, we really want them to see us shine and be sure they're aware of everything we do. So again, being aware of all these various different roles you can have in all these different systems that Person that was your friend, but also your employer.

Like, it'd be so important for her to be aware of that role too. To not put you in that situation. Right. Like, you have to think about it that way.

Marissa: Yeah. Because she knew I wasn't going to say no. I wouldn't say no to a friend. It's hard to say no to a supervisor. I mean, some people can say no real easy, but like, I wasn't able to do that.

And just what you said, that can be taken advantage of.

Jen: So sometimes when we get told no or a friend doesn't go out or, I mean, sometimes that's just a sign of like, man, like they're setting good boundaries.

Marissa: Yeah.

Jen: Maybe they're just in a healthy place. It doesn't always mean that it's a negative towards us.

Marissa: Exactly. And also, people can hang out without you too. It doesn't mean that they don't like you. That just means that you have an assortment of friends.

Jen: You know, we've talked about the spectrum of friendships so far. The spectrum of romantic relationships too. I think it really fits into that. Right. Like I think we talked about healthy relationships have trust and communications and, you know, sometimes that gets confusing.

You know, if they're not including me, they don't like me or they're sick of me or they're gonna break up with me. No, like, like you said, healthy, healthy friend groups can just know.

Okay. Like the three of us have this interest.

The other people don't. And that's okay. Like, it doesn't mean. Yeah, it does. It doesn't mean they don't like you or you, or you purposely don't like them. But again, this might come back to just healthy communication.

Inst.

Maybe if someone, you know, feels left out, just pointing out why you're not inviting them or, or just, you know, speaking your mind.

Marissa: So then, Jen, why do we hang on to people who are so unhealthy for our mental health, for our well being? Why is it so hard to kind of cut people out?

Jen: It's a great question. And, and I think we hear that a lot of. I know, I know this isn't a healthy relationship or I know this is toxic. I hear the word toxic a lot.

But there's always like a but. This is why I'm holding on to. And I think like, the but is really interesting. Again, coming back to that, roles and expectations. It's often, you know, what do we want to happen?

It's like our fantasy. Right. Like in my head, ideally, like, this is who they were the first week we met, or this is who they can be. Sometimes I think sometimes it really comes back to just what again, what's was our hope?

What are we wanting versus, like, what's our expectation versus what's reality? So I think sometimes it is just a hard look at why. Why are we holding on to this and what's it serving?

Right. Like anything in life, whether it's an unhealthy coping strategy or something, or a person serves purpose, what is that purpose? And is it actually serving us?

Marissa: Yeah. And, you know, looking at maybe more romantic relationships or friendships, too. There's this whole time investment theory. I've been friends with this person since kindergarten, or I've been dating this person for five.

You've invested so much time and energy into the relationship, you want to make it work.

But looking at. Yeah, those five years you've been together, two of them were great. But then maybe someone's true color started to show, or maybe you've changed, maybe you've evolved and they haven't.

We can be at different places in our lives. And even though you've invested time, you know, a lot of our listeners are college age. You're young, so you've put five years in.

You could have another 60 more years. Do you want to stay in a relationship that's unhealthy, that isn't adding anything to your life, and it's taking things away. You got to reevaluate that sometimes.

Jen: Right. It's not healthy. Now, what makes us think there's a guarantee it'll get better?

Also think sometimes, too, there's this, you know, I'd rather go through this even if it's not healthy, than be alone. Whether that's any. Any kind of the relationships we talked about.

But there's a difference with just being alone on your own and trying to reflect and grow and foster healthy relationships versus being, you know, laying right next to someone or being in a crowd of people and feeling alone.

Marissa: Yes.

Jen: Like, that sometimes feels so much worse. Right. Because you. The facade of I'm dating or I'm connecting or you're not. You're right again, like, it just highlights how much you're not connecting with anyone.

Marissa: Yeah. And there's a difference between being alone and being lonely. I mean, you can be alone, but just as you said, you can be lonely in a crowd of people.

Jen: Yeah. So then. Right. But then we jump into these patterns of, like, I'm gonna call up my ex. Right. I'm gonna, you know, go out with that friend who Maybe, you know, the only connection we have is that we drink, we smoke.

Marissa: Yeah.

Jen: We can kind of be drawn into some of those patterns.

Marissa: I mean, I talk to a ton of students that I don't even like smoking weed as much as my friends do, but that's just what I have to do to socialize.

Or especially with drinking, like, I don't like to drink. Or, you know, you can go out with your friends and everybody else is drinking and you're not. But sometimes it's difficult for people to be the sober friend when everyone else around them is drunk.

But if people are drinking or smoking or engaging in any sort of behaviors that maybe you don't want to engage in, if they're not respecting the boundaries that you're setting, maybe sometimes it's okay to reevaluate and say goodbye to some relationships.

So it's okay to have some healthy goodbyes, to grow apart with people. Like I said, if you're taking a tea break or stopping drinking and your friends don't want to, you might lose some friends over this.

And I would argue they probably weren't terribly great friends in the first place if that was the only thing that tied you together. And they're not respecting the choices that you make.

But it's also okay to lose some friends, too.

Jen: Let me say healthy goodbyes. I think we're so afraid of endings and so afraid of goodbyes. And sometimes the experience is that they're all kind of negative. Right. You might have a lot of just sad or, you know, chaotic experiences with goodbyes.

And like you said, it can be really healthy if we just set that boundary and we're walking away. There's so much growth and strength in that. So just for us to be proud of ourselves, but also, like we talked about earlier, if people are just doing different things with their life or becoming, you know, spacing out a little bit, that's healthy, too, right?

Like, certain friends come for a season. Certain friends will be with us for our life. It just might not be our best friends. They might just, you know, again, you know, be in our life in a different way.

So it's healthy to think about that idea of goodbyes. Or, like, do I want to see this person less? Like, if it is only someone that I party with, should I go to them every time I'm having a breakup or something devastating?

Or is it like, maybe how. How rarely should I see this acquaintance because that'll keep it healthy for me if we do that. Marissa, what are your thoughts on how to set A boundary like that with someone.

Marissa: Yeah. And I mean, at the core of all of this talk about unhealthy relationships, oftentimes it's because a boundary is being crossed or something just doesn't sit right, something doesn't feel right.

But we have boundaries, we set boundaries to feel safe. So really, what are your non negotiables? So you could have social boundaries that I'm only going out on the weekends.

You could have physical boundaries like I'm uncomfortable when you touch my arm.

We also have financial boundaries that we can set. So if you're the friend that's always smoking up your other friends and nobody else is reciprocating, are your financial boundaries being crossed?

And then, you know, we discuss boundaries a lot more extensively in our healthy relationship styles episode. But what's normal isn't always healthy either.

Jen: And coming back to that, non negotiables. I think this is our opportunity too from all the above, to learn and grow. Like we, we get to a certain place because we've been, we've learned what works, what doesn't work.

Right. So if we're growing out of some relationships where we've had some bad experiences, hopefully going into those next relationships, whether romantic or friendships or even work, I know family is a little more difficult obviously to, you know, just end and walk away as a whole nother nuanced conversation.

But the idea is to know what are my non negotiables. Now if that comes to substance use, that comes to trust.

Marissa: Right.

Jen: Like maybe previous relationship you weren't allowed to talk to people of the opposite sex or there were, you know, some rules that just felt like as an individual is stopped, like your identity and your growth.

So really thinking with those non negotiables, not only what you want them to do or act to be healthy, but what you need for yourself to be healthy when you're in a relationship with anyone.

Marissa: Sometimes we can see some pretty big red flags in relationships. And just logistically that's very difficult not to talk to other people in friendship.

Jen: Sometimes there's control too, right? Like, you're my best friend. There's like a I wasn't ownership, but kind of is kind of what it feels like. They're going to be mad if I do this or if I don't include them, if I guess that's kind of the red flag is if you're feeling, you know, emotionally unsafe.

And what does that mean exactly?

Marissa: And just as you said, like, unfortunately that is normalized in a lot of relationships, but that is not healthy. Like, that's just not healthy and not a way to live. I mean, if you're in a relationship at college aged and they don't want you talking to other guys, talking to other girls, even as classmates, that's a very controlling characteristic to have.

Very early on, how much time do you want to invest in that relationship and your safety in that relationship, too? So what if you are caught talking to someone else?

Then what happens?

Jen: Right. And then, you know, thinking, are there some boundaries that are immediately non negotiables? Like when it comes to safety?

Marissa: Yep.

Jen: Right. Like if there's physical harm, physical abuse, sexual abuse, even emotional abuse. Right. I know we just talked about a little bit about feeling like, you know, emotionally aware you're not doing okay.

Well, that's that confusion. But emotional abuse is a whole nother category. Right. So if it's getting to that level of, you know, maybe it's not healthy, maybe you're working on things, but getting to that level of unhealthy, unsafe, those are hard, hard boundaries.

Marissa: Yeah.

Jen: So thinking, like, what do you, like, do you end the relationship? Do you get resources? You know, if you need to Talk to Title 9 or an advocacy helper, the police, obviously this is something we could go more into also.

But at the end of the spectrum is a very unhealthy, dangerous arena to be in.

Marissa: Yeah. And, you know, bringing it back maybe to the middle of that spectrum when your boundaries are consistently crossed, evaluating what that relationship looks like and how to move forward. And then, just as you said, Jen, connecting with those resources, if it's beyond what you yourself can do or what you can do with the help and support of your peers and loved ones.

Jen: So silver lining, we can't improve our relationships.

So a lot of that starts with examining what are our roles, what are our expectations, and then just putting effort in. Right. We talked about this spectrum in communication. Not everyone's a mind reader.

You know, we did another podcast again on love languages, attachment styles. It's all about communication. You know, start with just what, identifying what your own needs and hopes are and then communicating it with others.

Right. They're either going to not do it or they're going to do it. And sometimes it takes time. Sometimes, you know, that's when you see a healthy relationship. It continues to grow and foster and your needs are being met.

Marissa: And a spectrum means a variety of things, so you can have a variety of friends to suit the needs that you have. So find the connections and healthy relationships wherever you can find them and be open to new ones.

Jen: We'll see you next time.