Where Service Becomes Story and Story Becomes Art

What happens when a veteran’s truth is shaped by a writer, interpreted by an artist, and transformed into something the world can finally see? When the silence of war is met—not with politics—but with art?

With unflinching honesty, Marine Corps veteran and writer Robert LeHeup shares the story behind Bullets and Bandaids, a nonprofit that pairs veterans with writers and artists to turn lived experience into collaborative, soul-grabbing works of art.

This isn’t therapy-it’s something else.  It’s agency. It’s healing through connection. And it’s a bold refusal to let any story—or any veteran—be left behind.

From WWII to Afghanistan, Robert explores the alchemy between trauma and creative expression—and reveals how art becomes the bridge between the unspeakable and the unforgettable.

These stories don’t stay on the wall or the page. They stay with you.

BulletsandBandaids

Today's episode is brought to you by the Joan of Arc Scroll Medal, a beautiful brass alloy medal, designed by award-winning artist, Pat Benincasa. This uniquely shaped medal is ideal for holiday or as a special occasion gift!    Visit www.patbenincasa-art.com

Please Note: The views expressed by our guests do not necessarily reflect the views of the podcaster.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Bullets and Band-Aids
• 4:29 Truth as Healing Connection
• 11:03 Breaking Through Veteran Stereotypes
• 19:09 Art as Universal Communication
• 27:39 Agency Over Pathology
• 37:33 Personal Ghosts and Legacy

Transcript

Pat:

Before we begin, a heads-up: This episode includes intense stories of trauma, war, and loss. Please listen with care.

Pat:

Hi, I am Pat Benincasa and welcome back to Fill To Capacity, Episode 111, “Where Service Becomes Story and Story Becomes Art.” Today's guest doesn't just talk about change, he builds it one story at a time. Robert La Heup is a Marine Corps veteran, a writer and the founder of Bullets and Bandaids, a nonprofit that connects veterans, writers, and artists to turn lived experience into powerful collaborative art.

Pat:

I've gotta tell you guys, as an artist, this story hits me hard because art holds truth. It, it builds bridges and it makes the unseen scene. So this isn't a soft landing kind of story. It's veterans telling it straight and turning that truth into art that moves, connects and breaks down the walls from World War II to Afghanistan, from poetry to metal work bullets and Band-Aids is closing the gap between veterans and civilians and reminding us what we all share. So, welcome, Robert. So nice to have you here.

Robert:

It's an absolute pleasure. I haven't gotten a better introduction ever. checks in the mail. 

Pat:

Whoa. Thank you.

Robert:

Thank you so much.

Pat:

Let's start with, for folks hearing about Bullets and Bandaids for the first time. What is it and what sets it apart from other veteran focused projects?

Robert:

It took me a while to be able  to trim this down into something that's, much smaller because we cover so much. One of the cool things about what it is that we do is it's never been done before, at least to the depth and breadth of what it is that we're doing as far as I know. But basically, what we do is we guarantee veterans a platform that speak their truth and guarantee that that truth is heard. That is the closest thing to encapsulating what it is that we do. In one sentence, we interview veterans or people that are veteran adjacent to friends, family, people that were affected by veteran circumstance. And then we, uh, we hand that to a writer that then writes something through their voice that is inspired by that interview. They have the interview as well as direct access to the veteran.

Robert:

And then we hand that written work as well as access to the writer, the interview to an artist that then creates an original work through their voice that is inspired by these other things. And then we have a voiceover created of the written work. And so that can attach a QR code so that when we take all of this artwork and the books that we put together from the written work and the, uh, visuals and tour, we can have little blurbs on the museums that have a, like a quick breakdown of the story. But once you scan the QR code, you have the entirety of the story and voiceover so that you can listen to it while you're looking at the artwork.

Pat:

That is amazing.

Robert:

It's a lot. I'm certainly grateful.

Pat:

Now, Robert, you've said that "Art is truth. Tell yours, "when did you first realize that telling your own truth could shift the ground beneath you?

Robert:

That's, that's a great question, actually. Obviously, like truth is something that you know, we shouldn't hesitate from one way or another. And I always subconsciously knew that it was important to tell truth and be connected and all the, all the rest of it. But it wasn't until I, like the first time that I wrote something that actually had happened to me, which was in a TEDx talk that I did in 2010. And by the nature of writing this story, which is, a moment that happened to me about two weeks before we left Kabul, in 2003, like I wrote it and I felt a sense of ownership, which is important. That really was extraordinary. But one significant step further was when I performed it, because that's when I knew I had been heard. And then all of a sudden, the connections made sense that we as a social species need to be heard. And that so many of these issues that have been plaguing me personally, as well as so many of the other people that I've served with, that I've spoken with since, could be addressed by acknowledging and addressing these profound feelings of isolation.

Pat:

That leads me to my next question. In your TEDx talk you said, and you're talking about it now, performing your story felt like exercising a demon. Robert, what do you think happens in the body? The psyche, the soul, when someone finally tells the truth they've buried for years.

Robert:

If we are going to go down the existential path, which I'm entirely down for, I think the profound amount of different things that happen, it's multilayered, multifaceted. One of them is that you plug back into the social species that you are in fact a part of. We are as a society, you know, again, like as a species like so much further ahead because we not only have to hear stories, but we have to tell ours it's the third level of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. Knowing that you're a part of a community.

Pat:

Robert is referring to Abraham Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. His psychological theory that outlines five levels of human needs arranged in a pyramid. So, from the bottom to the top, one, Physiological Needs, food, water, shelter, two, Safety Needs, security and stability. Three, Love and Belonging, relationships and connection. Four, Esteem, Respect and Recognition. Five, Self-Actualization, fulfilling one's potential. The theory suggests we must meet lower needs before pursuing higher ones. Okay. Back to Robert.

Robert:

It relaxes you so that you're less defensive about certain things, so that those conversations can happen more. It reinforces both support and responsibility that we have with one another. But as importantly as anything else, we are supposed to share one another's burdens. Again, the social species aspect of it. And just by listening to someone's story, you're helping change this trauma into healing dialogue. So there's a nobility to listening to somebody else to give them space. Which by the way, thank you again for allowing me the opportunity.

Pat:

Oh my God, it's my honor. But you know, as you're talking Robert, I kept thinking about isn't there a Marine Corps belief or duty? You leave no man behind or you leave no marine behind?

Robert:

There is no man left behind is definitely a thing that's across the board. From what I know, like both Marine Corps and the Army. I do also think that this is very important that though that is applicable. There is no one statement that is a hundred percent. We might as well be called caveats. 'cause whenever there's a broad and sweeping statement, we're like, yes, but also this.

Pat:

Of course, but I only meant it in the spirit of what you are doing now. It's like the sweep of veterans that you are bringing up. You're not leaving them behind. That's how I meant it.

Robert:

You know, we're more like collecting them, we're like, yeah, that's how I go this way.

Pat:

And you know, so many veterans feel invisible when they return home. What happens when someone sees their story? Not as a case study or a headline, but as a living, breathing work of art.

Robert:

I love that you're putting it like that. That it's not a case study. That it's not an editorial or something like that. It's, profound. Consistently. We've had people say, you know, I wasn't able to tell my wife this story. Were it not for the disconnect that Bullets and Bandaids provides. 'Cause I'm the one that does the interviews most of the time. I've had people that I've served with say, I wouldn't be here today. Were it not for Bullets and Bandaids. Whenever we go to a museum beforehand, I'll tell people, like, the people are gonna come up to you with tears in their eyes thanking you, saying this is the most profound art show that I've ever been to. This is so powerful, I'm gonna have to come back. And they always think that I'm trying to sell it. You know what I mean? Sure. Instead of me just like preparing them for what is going to happen, because the scale of what it is that we do, you know, everybody wants to approach thinking that we might have forgotten something, that we might have left something out, and then we can just be like, no, because in this overall human cannon, in the diaspora that we're trying to cover, there truly is no man or woman left behind.

Pat:

You've worked with veterans across wars ranks and even opposite sides of the conflict. What does that range tell you about the human experience?

Robert:

If I'm being honest, this is gonna sound, I don't know.

Pat:

Go for it.

Robert:

It's nothing I didn't know already. Fundamentally, in regard to us all sharing a common human journey, I think all of us realize that I think part of the grind of life is kicking and screaming. We have to fight off that idea. But yes, I think it was just a reinforcing that we are basically a conglomerate of genes and means, like pressed through the organ grinder that is, context. You know what I mean? It's literally just this happens, we feel sad, this is threatened, we feel angry. It's a psychological and sociological reinforcement of the Jungian collective unconscious is the idea that we're all sharing a common human journey, those support and responsibility within that understanding. It's interesting because I know some cultures, like for example, there are certain places in the East that like tones when they hear like a higher pitched, like more quickly rhythmic tone, like from where we are coming from, it's like, oh, okay, it's happy, it's exuberant.

Robert:

It's all these other things. And to them it's like dark and depressing. So that's like the biggest switch that I could imagine in regard to being a different person. Fundamentally, the emotions behind those prompts are the same. Yes, we all want the same. We all wanna be happy and healthy, and we all wanna have, I hate to bring back Maslow's Hierarchy, but the potential is self-actualized, you know? But even then, like some people can't even hope for that. If you don't have basic needs taken care of, then how can you have a, like a foundation, a platform to in fact reach this, this best life?

Pat:

We're so much more than our social construct, basically. Absolutely. There is a commonality just in being human.

Robert:

A hundred percent. And to me, it's surreal that it's not more pointed out or that it's not more lauded or that collaboration isn't something that we teach. It's a necessity by the nature of, you know, human nature.

Pat:

I wanna ask you something, and I I would like to know your thoughts about this. Lately we've seen contributions from Native Americans, women and people of color quietly removed from official veteran histories, Bullets and Bandaids seems to lean in the other direction, lifting up stories that are often ignored. Now, Robert, is that by design? And how do you see your role in telling the full story of those that served with all this going on?

Robert:

We do not have a political or a religious affiliation, inclination, agenda. It's not there. And also, like I don't shy away from any questions. Like, feel free to ask me anything that you would care to.

Pat:

I'm not trying to put you on the political spot by asking that.

Robert:

No, I know. I was just pressing. You know, just so that you are comfortable with my answer.

Pat:

Go for it.

Robert:

As much as I might say, I think the evidence of what it is that we're showing reinforces it more, which human is more important than another human, let me know and I'll, and I'll, you know, like, try to, that's not even true. I wouldn't, I wouldn't even listen in order to shine a light on their humanity, we don't pick anyone up or put them in their place. You know, we don't put 'em on a pedestal or put them in their place. We show who it is that they are, and we don't flaunt any aspect of it. Like, for example, for volume four, because we put these together into volumes, like each, so we're working on volume five now. For Volume four, we had, uh, a guy from the Netherlands that wrote a story about an Afghan interpreter that was in the Battle of Shok Valley, which is the most awarded battle since Vietnam.

Robert:

And the person that did the artwork is a Russian sculptor. So we had a Russian and an Afghan that working alongside one another when both of 'em were roughly nine years old when Russia invaded Afghanistan. So we don't point that out, they know that. And in the conversations that we have with people, museum tours and stuff like that. But what's important is the story and the collaboration. If people want to make these connections, absolutely. We point them out in different ways for giving tours and stuff like that. Here's a great example. So about three weeks ago we had a fundraiser, and we had the chief of the Waccamaw at the fundraiser. He and his wife were guests of honor.

Pat:

Is that a tribe? Is that a group?

Robert:

It's a tribe based in North and South Carolina. We have, I think five different Native American tribes for volume five alone. Well, I don't wanna get sidetracked, but about a month before that, I interviewed an Afghan interpreter that worked with us for 13 years, and he was terrified because he thought he might get deported within like a week of me interviewing him. It's all about humans one way or another. And I feel as though it is important for everyone to be valued. And if they are not, especially acts of service, because that is not just a sacrifice at first, but it starts as a sacrifice and stays that way. A lot of the time. Our organization is fundamentally based on people's stories and people's experiences. So the idea of taking those away at all, I find it difficult to imagine something that's more evil.

Pat:

You know what, Robert? I think you've answered the question.

Robert:

Yeah, I think that last part was it.

Pat:

You got it. Okay. Yeah,

Robert:

Yeah. I don't want to, again, not politically or religiously inclined, like I don't mean to be that guy, but I also own a bunch of guns and I hunt and stuff like that, and like, I don't fit into a thing. But then again, none of us do.

Pat:

No, we don't.

Robert:

You know what I mean? So off we go. I've had some of the best conversations with people because I am like, I don't have a political or religious inclination. I might, but my organization doesn't, and my organization is bigger than me, <laugh>, you know what I mean?

Pat:

I understand. Actually, Robert, I feel the same way about this podcast. This is not a soapbox. Whatever I feel personally, I want my guests to come on and tell their story. No agenda. Just tell your story. So I do appreciate how you are navigating. As we say in Italian, capisce ?

Robert:

Okay.

Pat:

Now you have walked through combat addiction and you could say, well, running, walking, shooting, diving. Okay.

Robert:

<laugh>.

Pat:

And you've also experienced a kinda creative rebirth. . What's the biggest misconception civilians have about what it means to come home from war?

Robert:

Hmm. Honestly, I think the first and foremost is putting us in a box. There's the litmus test questions that people ask to see whether or not we are broken or we're a man in and of ourselves, or a person in and of ourselves. Either we are an island that needs nothing, or we are just and only broken. And there is no gray area whatsoever. That whole humanity thing, it's like, no, no, no, no, no, just, just fill out the survey. Don't get me wrong. I think people saying thank you for your service can often be great, as long as it's not like a check in the box and then you continue on as long as it's mint. I think the idea of putting us into boxes is one of the first things that enforce that we are in fact isolated. And when that happens, like veterans need to talk about other things beyond just their service to other veterans.

Robert:

But a lot of the time it's part of the culture that also the litmus test to see who has or has not done more is so that they know the dynamic when in fact, what it is, is a human being talking to another human being. Like for example, I've done 150 ish interviews for people regarding Bullets and Bandaids, right? Delta Force people, Vietnam veterans that had brutal things happen, like the gamut of life experiences. Two of my favorite stories were about people whose jobs while they were in the military were administration. All they did was paperwork. And their stories were incredible, just incredible. One of them was an orphan that was abused consistently, eventually became practically homeless and was like, what can I do? Says, okay, I'm gonna join the army. She joins the army and then goes to bootcamp.

Robert:

The school where she learns her trade and then immediately to Germany. And I'm like, oh my gosh. So from homelessness to Germany, like what was the biggest culture shift without skipping a beat? She said, having my own source of income. So by the end of this story, like fast forwarding through, like her finding God by walking through, you know, miles of flowers or finding family where she didn't expect it, the end result is that she now has, I think it's three doctorates focusing on DSS service, department of social services, looking after people that were in the same position that she was in. Because this woman who has three doctorates was put into remedial classes when she was a kid. That's a human living life, happened to be in the army. So I got to speak with her.

Pat:

One of the things that really amazed me about what Bullets and Bandaids do, and you specifically, you're working across divides, military, civilian trauma, creativity, silence, storytelling. And I'm curious, what's the most surprising thing you've learned about listening in this process?

Robert:

The journey of  it is more extreme than you might think if you're actually empathizing. There have been several times where, like, including the one, the interview about the woman who, that I just spoke about where I just like, I didn't like out and out weep or anything, but I was crying. When you hear stories, I mean, everything is on the spectrum and it's a sliding scale. And, and it's hard to say that there is a right answer to most things. One of the recurring themes that I've gotten, there's just epiphanies that are harsh, like realizations or gifts one way or another. Yeah. But the idea of like in war, the key thing to me that really stands out is luck. Like, that's it. Like, I was supposed to do this, but somebody else took it. Now I'm talking to you and they're in the ground.

Robert:

That's, that's sobering. I mean, because you can prepare and prepare and prepare and then something else is gonna happen. And there's also like, you know, people are bigoted in different ways that a surprise you and be like give it time. And that goes away in time. They're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, in fact this, but this is the culture in which I live, and so this is how I'm gonna speak. Yeah. It, it's really quite something. And then sometimes I'll talk with people and they'll think that I'm thinking that I am the conglomerate of my definers, okay, you fit these categories. So in fact, this is who you are. A bald white dude, you know, has a wonderful girlfriend. It's just, it's not, it doesn't always sit well with some people because it's like, how is this guy taking advantage? Which totally makes sense. I do think it's kind of interesting that as open as we are, that it's more difficult for us to, it is surprising what ends of spectrums we have to go out of our way to convince, like some people are like veterans. Gotcha. That's all they need.

Pat:

In other words, you're talking about pigeonholing. Oh, he's a, he's a bald white guy wearing olive green. Hmm, olive green, fill in the dots. So you're talking about you don't like this idea of cardboard cutouts? Yes. But then that leads me to ask, I have to, I really wanna know how the hell do you not lose yourself? I mean, you're empathetic, you're compassionate. How do you handle this magnitude of other people's life experiences? How do you not drown in it? How do you keep your feet on the ground?

Robert:

I love that. All of these questions, I feel like I should also be asking you <laugh>, you know what I mean? Like, these are great and also, uh, how do I handle it? I could have a better work-life balance. That is true. I'm often told that I should pay more attention to the life aspect, but I think, well, this has never been done before. So it needs to happen somehow. Like the extent of what it is that we're doing, the depth and breadth of it needs to, to happen. And no one else is doing it. And what it is like saves lives. I've had so many more people die from suicide than, uh, combat, like by far, you know, atrocities that, that I need to, uh, make sure never happened again. Like this, the whole thing is based on trauma and also is profoundly effective and also is beyond me.

Robert:

So the idea of once we have a larger staff, then I'll be able to take some time. But in the meantime, it's like, don't fill everyone else's cup with water if you don't have enough for yourself. Right? I am making these connections. No one person could do all of these things. I'm doing the interview and then I'm introducing that to a writer that then puts forth their effort, and then I introduce it to an artist that then puts forth their effort. So out of these smaller bits of effort that I'm putting forth, we're getting a great deal back. I put in a thimble full and someone's cup is filled up entirely, which makes it more difficult to stop pouring.

Pat:

You are also saying here is when you understand that you're doing something that's so much bigger than yourself, that's a guiding thing that stops from overly emoting. You know, I taught for 30 years and I had kids who were living in their car with their families. One student who was on the move because he would ride his bike to school every day for 10 miles to and from. This is Minnesota!  And he does that because he can't live in one spot because his mother was a undocumented worker. So all these stories, and you get to know kids when you're working in art, as you know, I know you know this, working with creative people, artists, writers, there's a way we connect with one another. You just cut through the BS. It's about real life, real heart to heart.

Robert:

I know there's a thousand different definitions for artwork, but the way that I look at it is basically sensory metaphor,

Pat:

Say more.

Robert:

We are trying to convey something through we'll say visual for example, like a visual art. Well make it two dimensional. The things that you are putting down wherever it is coming from, whether it be for you to know yourself better or your place in the community better, your place within the great mystery, one way or another. If you are investing yourself in this thing and the creation of this thing, like you are sharing it, even if no one else sees it, like you're whoever it is that you're doing it for. Not just yourself, but knowing yourself better, knowing your society, knowing your place, right? Like there is a conversation there that is happening that acknowledges something that is greater than just you. And by acknowledging that greatness, you recognize even on a subconscious level your place in this larger occurrence. So if you are trying to get something across through this and somebody else attempts to understand, then there is a conversation within that which actually literally goes beyond time and space, which is why we can look up what Van Gogh did back in the day and be inspired by it. 

Pat:

You can go into a museum and see something that was done maybe 900 years ago, and as you come around the corner, you see it and it knocks the wind right out of you. And it's a communication that goes beyond borders, nations gender culture, and hits to the heart of existence of who we are. And so you don't need a translator. All you need to to do is be in that moment and see it.

Robert:

How about this perfect example when you're listening to music, right? Three things are happening. One is that you are recognizing what you just heard. The second is that you are digesting what it is that you're hearing. And the third, which is as important as anything else, is the notes that you expect. Because within that expectation, you are in fact having, having a conversation with the musician that put it together. When you look at art and you're like, ah, why did they do this or this or this, I would have done this. That is your artist. And just as your heartbeat when it comes to music is going to slow down or speed up depending on the music, there's also that style of communication with visual work to the point where it literally changes you physically. And you don't necessarily need to know another language. You don't have to be profoundly educated to get something from it. That is a significant reason why we we do that. Why bulletin bandaids incorporates artwork is because some people are gonna see this and some people are gonna see this, but it all is giving agency to the one person that is speaking their truth. We've got a bunch of pretty things. We've got poet laureates and Pulitzer Prize winning fill in the blanks and all of these different things, right? But it all trickles back down to the person that's telling the story. Sorry, that was long-winded.

Pat:

Oh no. It was wonderfully long-winded <laugh>.

Robert:

You're generous.

Pat:

Well, well, when we're talking about art, do you have about 10 hours? Okay. Come back. I digress.

Robert:

I might One day.

Pat:

I know you. Yes, you would. Okay. From a working artist point of view, I thought being an artist meant only the time I spent in the studio making art. 'cause in art school, they kind of put your head that way. Like nothing else matters, but you have to be in the studio making art. And it was like a couple years ago, I was on a podcast, and someone asked me about being an artist. And I said, yeah, I'm an artist and my canvas is life. And I heard myself say that Robert, and in my head I thought, what the hell did you just say? It just shocked me. And then I realized when you're a writer composer, when you have this profound need to, to express, I love how you put it. You're putting a conversation into the universe and there'll be those people that will go, oh my god, yes. But the idea of being creative, if you've been in a war, you're a veteran or whatever, you've done this life of ours, that's our, our form of expression. That's where we could make something of it that's so much bigger than ourselves.

Robert:

It's one life that we're given.

Pat:

That's it.

Robert:

Yeah.

Pat:

Okay. I gotta get back to the podcast here, Robert. Stop it. Just stay on track. Will you? Okay. Now, so with each exhibition, Bullets and Bandaids invites the public into this living archive of memory and art. And you've been talking about it so beautifully, but have there been moments when audience reactions really caught you off guard?

Robert:

There has been one time where my reaction to an audience member caught me off guard. There is a guy that had been drinking heavily that was in the audience, and he kept on poking fun at, uh, people that had told their stories because he had been caught in an explosion and apparently is the only one that ever has, you know what I mean? He thought that somehow he deserved special treatment, even though he was talking with other people that had also seen combat. That's part of the charm of what it is that we do in this, in this like leveling of the playing field. In this giant round table for volume five, we have the deputy chief of the general staff of the, of Ukraine, but also the people that just did administration. One of those people that did administration also got anthrax, saw combat and delivered her own baby.

Robert:

Don't get me wrong, like you've been through some stuff, but we are a part of a group. Instead of me saying, see, this is exactly the style of, of mentality that we're trying to break through. Like, thank you for your service and your sacrifice. I do sincerely appreciate it, just as I appreciate this person's, this person's, this person's, this person's. So I didn't handle that as eloquently as I feel I could have. I had a friend of mine at one point who was, uh, who called me up. We were just, you know, shooting the proverbial and he said, uh, man, we haven't seen anything. And I was like, what are you talking about? This person died and this person died and this person died, and all of these messed up things happened, you know, explosions and rocks and like all of these different, like messed up things happened.

Robert:

And he was like, yeah, but compared to some of these people in like Vietnam, like that's nothing. So, a few years ago, put that to the side for a second. Put that whole like side, you know, that story to the side for a second. About seven years ago, I was part owner of a media and production company and somebody came in, his name was Quanuquanei Karmu. He was, uh, he had written a book about being eight and nine years old during the last Liberian civil War. And previously I had written a graphic novel memoir because it was like, uh, I'm a writer and, and that that's a whole different story. But, uh, by the time I was done, I was like, this is the hardest thing I'll ever have to write. And then Nu Carou came in and handed me his book about being eight and nine years old during the last Liberian civil war.

Robert:

And I read that and was like, oh, darn this is gonna be the hardest thing that I ever have to write. And then COVID hit and Bullets and Bandaids started, and off we go. I told 'em, I was like, listen, those people in Vietnam that saw all these different things are wounded and are still feeling the effects of all of these different things, et cetera. But like, if anything like that candle that they're holding is directly bare minimum or like at most adjacent to the entire country of Liberia, the entire country, like the amount of like casual atrocity that happened in that is like, yeah, there is no right answer, there's only truth.

Pat:

We hear a lot about PTSD and your work centers on agency, not pathology. How do you keep veterans in the driver's seat in terms of their own stories, especially after they've had this, this experience. With Bullets and Band-aids. How do they move on from that?

Robert:

We manage expectations. We give veterans a platform to speak their truth and guarantee that truth is heard. We can only say that because the writer will write something. You'll be like, okay. And then the artist will create something. You'll be like, okay, we don't say that we're gonna tour. We don't guarantee that we're gonna tour. We don't guarantee any of these different things. So we try to manage expectations as best as we can. We've shown like 60,000 people over the last like year and a half, something like that. Like, we're not doing bad managing expectations. All of the veterans that tell their stories got a high-resolution print on canvas of one piece of their choice from our collection, because not everybody wants something based off of their story. All of our participants get free entry into our exhibitions wherever it is that they are, uh, being shown as well as fundraisers and stuff.

Robert:

But in perpetuity, after they have been given the opportunity to speak their truth, and after we have done our best to convey that truth in all of these different media, the journey after that is up to them. But it's like when I gave the TEDx talk, we're not holding anyone's hand at all. We are adults living in an adult world and off we go. But when I gave the Ted Talk and I spoke about some stuff that had happened to me, all of a sudden that doorway to conversation opened. So I was a little bit more calm about telling people about my experiences and, and people were more calm about approaching me. So that we could have these conversations one way or another. We aren't claiming that we are gonna have a counselor tagging along with them from day one or any of these other things.

Robert:

We are giving them an agency to speak their truth with the understanding that it's susceptible to laws of stolen valor and stuff like that. I I had an Afghan interpreter on of the year before last that pointed over at me and said, it's like bullets and Band-aids found a zipper over my heart, pulled it down and allowed me to tell my story to a country I fought for and my friends died for. That's verbatim. I know that beyond what it, you know, I've had Vietnam veterans, I've had so many like Vietnam veterans saying that this is saving their life. I guess it's, it's one of those, I don't know.

Pat:

Okay. Now, listeners listening to this podcast, where can they find you? Where can they get information about bullets and bandaids?

Robert:

You can go online bullets and bandaids.org. That's B-U-L-L-E-T-S-A-N-D, not ampersand, bandaids. B-A-N-D-A-I-D s.org. You can buy books there, you can keep up with this. Right now we're, we're revamping the website. We're adding and tweaking a few things, but you can can buy merch there. You can buy books, you can donate. We very much need public support. It's difficult to find grants that fit into our program when what it is that we do has never been done before. It would be great to have donations, recurring donations, especially sponsorships, anything that anyone could do to.

Pat:

Okay. And I'll put the link in the show notes as well. So as we, uh, get to the top of the hour, I wanna ask, what's one story you've carried with you, one that just refuses to leave you, and what does it continue to teach you?

Robert:

Hmm. I don't know. They would be my own stories, like things that I had lived, because otherwise it's hard to explain. Like we've had a direct descendant of a Samurai stories being told by a jazz blues musician, the deputy chief of the general staff of Ukraine. We had a guy in the American infantry that was, that went and fought on the front lines of Ukraine and was captured and tortured by Russians for three months. And this person who's got three doctorates to help out with DSS stuff, there is no one thing that really stands out except for just the people that I've lost that I would still have if they had been given the Bullets and Bandaids treatment. You were saying earlier, what do I do for mental health stuff? Let me just say that I feel as though if I were to do this hard enough that I might be able to bring one of 'em back. Does that make sense? I know it's not true. Like rationally, I recognize that that's not a thing. I would say it would have to be personal experiences that set this whole thing up and how the ghosts of those people have, how, how my mirror neurons, or how my brain has incorporated, how the ghosts of these people would react to where it is that we are. Like for example, there was one guy that's always in my head. 

Robert:

Well just to say that there was one guy that there's a reason why there, there's an international aspect to what it's that we do that there's like, like sprinkling of people from outside of the United States. And the guy that really like sank it for me, who obviously was, well, he was killed in a horrible way before volume three, which is our first volume that we did as our own nonprofit came out. I was under so much stress that half of my body went numb and I didn't care. I was like, it doesn't matter. This book needs to go to print. Finally went to print, we get it. And I had this lucid moment where the guy is looking over my shoulder and I'm super excited and I'm like, what do you think? He's just like very proud and like exhausted catharsis and all this other stuff.

Robert:

And he's like, you, Fuck you, I'm dead. Fuck you- I am dead. And that like messed with me a lot. And then Babroz Mahmond, pointed over at me and said, “it's like Bullets and Bandaids found a zipper over my heart, pulled it down and allowed me to tell my story to a country I fought for and my friends died for.” That was volume four, by the way. Two or three days later, I had this like another lucid moment where my brain was being a little bit hyperactive and I basically like gestured to the idea of Bullets and Bandaids and said, please, please. And I felt like he tapped me on the shoulder and said, it's a good start. So look at that however it is that you would care to. Again, maybe I react to mirror neurons, maybe it was a ghost, maybe it was like something from who cares. The end result is that it is a direct evidence of the functionality of what it is that we do. Because even I, given all of these different things that I've been steeped in could heal and not just heal, but allow myself the opportunity to, you know, and a guy that's like, so much of this has been about trauma, including my own, and this is the end result. What more proof do I need? You know, what more proof do I need that I don't need sleep?

Pat:

There you go. Listen, Robert, you're talking to someone who believes and knows that my ancestors are always with me. They're right next to me. I don't do anything without their help. And my daily prayer is help me and let me honor you by what I do. People can roll their eyes and say, “Ghosts?” or be skeptical— I live what I know—and I know they’re with me. Love is eternal.

Robert:

Yeah, I think that's a, that's a great note to, to leave on. Uh, honestly, yeah. I do know though that like, uh, yes, we, we share that. I so imagine it's this like film, I guess, right? And underneath that film is a bunch of liquid, and then you like pick your fingers up from, and the, and the film just kind of like gathers around the fingers and it's, that's humans. And then we die and we go back into it. Does that make sense?

Pat:

Yeah, it does.

Robert:

So it's like there's this miasma of things and then all of a sudden we're people for a second and then we go back out.

Pat:

Yes. That does make sense. Whoa. Well, Robert <laugh>, thank you. Bullets and Bandaids through Art and collaboration is a living archive reminding us that when truth is shared, it doesn't just heal the storyteller, it heals us. Robert, thank you so much for coming on Fill To Capacity today.

Robert:

I'm so grateful and honored. I love this. I'm, uh, and this has been one of the best interviews, if not the best I've ever been through. I'm so grateful, your questions are so poignant. So thank you so much. This is a pleasure

Pat:

To say. It's my honor is an understatement. Okay. Just so you know,

Robert:

It's reciprocated, I promise.

Pat:

Okay, listeners, whoa, I don't know about you guys, but I need some time to kind of think about what just, what just happened here, <laugh>. So thank you for joining us and see you next time. Bye.