Fill To Capacity (Where Heart, Grit and Irreverent Humor Collide)

Psychic Knowing in a Changing Mind With Echo Bodine

• Pat Benincasa • Episode 128

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What happens when a lifelong psychic begins to lose memory — but not intuition? 

Nationally recognized psychic and teacher Echo Bodine reflects on life after an Alzheimer's diagnosis — and what it means to trust intuition, presence, and surrender as memory changes. 

She talks about the relief of finally understanding what was happening, the unexpected gift of living one day at a time, and how vulnerability has brought her closer to people. Echo shares what an "Alzheimer's day" feels like, why she refuses to let fear spiral, and why intuition — not memory — feels most reliable now. 

We also talk about staying grounded in difficult times, fighting the dark with light, and listening for the steady voice inside when everything else feels uncertain. This is a conversation about presence, courage, and what remains when certainty falls away.

Today's episode is brought to you by the Joan of Arc Scroll Medal, a beautiful brass alloy medal, designed by award-winning artist, Pat Benincasa. This uniquely shaped medal is ideal for holiday or as a special occasion gift!    Visit www.patbenincasa-art.com

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Please Note: The views expressed by our guests do not necessarily reflect the views of the podcaster.

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Pat:

Fill To Capacity where heart grit and irreverent humor collide. A podcast for people too stubborn to quit and too creative not to make a difference.

Pat:

Hi, I am Pat Benincasa and welcome to Fill To Capacity. I'm so glad you're here. Before I begin, I wanna acknowledge what's happening here in Minnesota. It's a stressful, tense, and charged time. So I'll take a cue from my Minnesota neighbors. Fight the dark with light. That's why stories of care and possibility. Whoa, they matter now more than ever. Okay, so Episode #128, "Psychic Knowing In A Changing Mind with Echo Bodine," my guest, Echo Bodine. She is a Minnesota based psychic and teacher who spent more than 40 years helping people use intuition as a tool for healing and clarity. She began teaching in the early 1980s, has appeared on national TV and radio, hosted her own shows, and founded the Center for Intuitive Living, where she continues to teach intuition, healing, and spiritual development. Echo is plain spoken and direct about what she asks of people. Now, recently, echo has been posting on Facebook about her Alzheimer's diagnosis and how it's changing the way she's moving through daily life. Her memory, her focus, and her sense of presence. And what so moved me when I saw those postings is that she's chosen to speak openly about this and stay connected. So this conversation isn't about a diagnosis, it's about how someone whose life has been built around intuition is meeting change. What's shifted, what's remained steady, and what she's learning along the way. So, echo, I am so honored to have you here. Welcome.

Echo:

Oh my gosh, honey, what a wonderful introduction. Holy smokes,

Pat:

Listen, I've been following you for many years, so every word of that introduction is true.

Echo:

Aw, honey. That is so nice. That is so nice. Where do we go?

Pat:

Okay, let's start right at the beginning. When the neurologist said to you, you have Alzheimer's, you said you felt relief.

Echo:

I did.

Pat:

Why relief and what did that relief make possible?

Echo:

You know, honey, first of all, I had not even considered Alzheimer's. It wasn't even in my brain, but I went to her for migraines and I said to her, you know, my memory has gotten pretty goofy. And ha, I have to say, I should back up a little bit and say, for two years, whenever I would go to a doctor for anything, I would say, you know, my memory has gotten weird. And well, and the answer has always been, well, you know, you are 75, 76, 77. Okay. That's the answer, always my age. Okay. So she said, you know, let's do some blood work and rule out some things first, and then we'll deal with the migraines. Oh, cool. Okay. It wasn't even in my consciousness. Yeah. That she would say to me two weeks later, well, echo, you have Alzheimer's and there's four different kinds, and you have the worst kind.

Echo:

And honey, you know what? I looked at her and I said, oh, I feel so relieved to know why my memory is like this, honey. Really? It was like a blessing to me. And it didn't really click like, wait, Alzheimer's, what? Okay, I what? And so I came home, called my sister, and my brother told them, and we were all like, wait a minute, what does this mean now? Okay, what do we do? And God bless the Minneapolis Clinic of Neurology because honey, they just walked me through every step. Like, okay, this might happen, this might not happen. And honestly, you know what? I feel, honey, I feel like I've surrendered to it, instead of fighting with it and pretending it doesn't exist. And some people said to me, don't tell people, keep this a secret because it's going to hurt your career. My, what do they call? Oh, my brand. I'm like, my brand

Pat:

your brand.

Echo:

Yeah, my brand honey. Really? And, and I even said, I don't really care about my brand. I said, I, I don't wanna carry this secret and worry that people are gonna wonder what is wrong with her. She can't even finish a sentence sometimes. Okay. And so it was really important to me, really, I listened to people for about two weeks, and then I said, screw this. No, I'm not keeping this a secret. So that's when I started blogging about it, honey. Oh God. It helped so much to talk about it to people.

Pat:

And that's when I, you know, I follow you on Facebook, of course. And then you start posting about it so openly. And I, I was so heartened by that echo because I kept thinking all the people who have been diagnosed with illness, who are afraid to share with others, and that becomes a weight. And here you are talking about it. And so that's why we're here today. Chatting. Good. So my next question to you is, you spent a lifetime helping people trust their intuition. Yes. Now that your memory works differently, what part of you feels most reliable?

Echo:

Intuition. For sure, honey. You know, I am so grateful for my path because honey, I'm so used to just going right to my intuition when I need to make a decision. And so it isn't even an effort for me, it's just really, I mean, I wake up in the morning and I just say to my intuition, okay, guide me. Where do we go today? What do we do today? Who do we talk to today? And honey, that's how I get through the whole day. I go right back to intuition when Okay, I need to make a decision about something and okay, that'll help me with this, and then I'll do this. And yeah. I don't know how people do this without intuition.

Pat:

Well, in a sense, what you're talking about is that still voice inside of us. Yes. Which I really believe is the divine. I believe we're divinely guided. Whatever form that divine may be. And anyone can fill in the blank. I'm, I'm not saying any particular religion or it's spiritual, but the fact is, there's always that voice that will just very gently nudge or say something. And I, for one, when I don't listen to it, echo, I have gotten into big trouble. Okay.

Echo:

You don't have to tell me girl!

Pat:

So ee're on the same page. Now. There was a sweet post that you had, you noticed yourself shoveling snow. Okay, folks, we live in Minnesota here. So snow could mean six inches, two feet. Okay. You get the picture. So you were shoveling snow, and instead of asking for help, and you were thinking about that, here I'm shoveling instead of asking for help, and you realize this is not about the snow, it was about, as you put it, not wanting to be a burden to others. Oh. So how do you negotiate that? How do you, how do you work through that echo?

Echo:

That was, I would say, my biggest issue with Alzheimer's. Like, wait, I'm gonna forget someday, all of this. Yeah. What? And really, honey, it was about, you know, I mean, even my sister said, well, now what does this mean? Do we have to come and take care of you? Uh, do, do you know how to do stuff? I'm like, uh, geez. Uh, yeah. But honey, it was just like, oh my God, I don't wanna burden people. I don't wanna, no, I don't want peop No. And you know what, it was a slow process for me of getting to the place of, okay, guys, I do need help. I do. And I don't wanna burden you. So now I kind of walk a tightrope still with this of, okay, echo, can you do this yourself? Yeah, I can. Okay. And then some days I look out at six inches of snow and say, no, I can't do that today. My mind isn't clear and not funny. It's been, yeah, that's been, I think, the biggest challenge.

Pat:

Oh, I can imagine. Now you're talking about how your mind works one day at a time. One thing at a time. Yep. And how that's, it was amazing. Your writing, you talk about how it brought a surprising sense of presence. What has that simplicity given you that busyness never did,

Echo:

Honey, I can't, I can't tell you how cool it is to only have one thing on my mind at a time. Okay. I used to pride myself in being the multitasker of multitasks. Okay. I could do five things at the same time, get everything done. Okay. Now, I sit in my chair and I, I write things down. Okay, I need to do this and I need to do this, and then I need to do this. Okay, so, uh, which one should I focus on first? And that's how I live now. And it's so much easier when I'm not trying to do five things at the same time. It's like, oh, this is a blessing. Okay. You know, I've been praying for healing on my head. And the one thing I found myself last week, talking to God, saying, okay, you know what? I really want this healed, but I don't wanna go back to multitasking. Okay. I really need this simplicity in my life. It's really nice. Okay. To just focus on one thing, pat. It's like, wow, if I just have one thing to focus on, I can put all of myself into that instead of it gets a fifth of me, you know? Yeah.

Echo:

Honey, I don't know any other way to describe it, but it's really a blessing.

Pat:

Okay. I wanna go further with that. In your writing, and as you're talking now, you describe living more simply one day at a time, one thing at a time, and a feeling less frantic and more present. Yes. Now, some people describe that as a kind of experience, as a state of grace and Christian language, grace is being aligned with God's presence, something you receive, not earn. Now, in Buddhism, it's more about waking up to reality as it is, and letting go of the struggle. As you live this season of your life, which of those both are one feels closest to what you're experiencing?

Echo:

Both honey, both Grace. That's the best way to describe this. You know, when I was first feeling all this, I remember thinking, what is this? I know I feel protected, I feel safe. I just have to focus on one thing at a time. I feel supported on a different level. And is this God's grace? Is this what this feels like? And best word to describe this, but you know what it is, pat? It's about I'm not fighting it honey. Really? Because I think normally, you know, if somebody told me I had some kind of a disease or illness, you know, I'd be like, oh no, I'm gonna fight this. Oh no, I'm gonna get better. Oh, no. But with this deal, it's been a surrender of, no, I'm not gonna fight it. I'm gonna learn to work with it. And I think that's God's grace.

Pat:

I also think what you're touching on Echo is in our culture, there's this pressure to always put everything in positive speak.

Echo:

Yeah.

Pat:

And so that would mean Alzheimer's. Well, you know what? A little memory, forgetfulness, I'll be all right. I can handle that. You know, we, we, no, we do, we have this way of either minimizing something or packaging it in this positive speak. Yes. And what you are talking about is taking away the veneer of language. And in your heart of heart saying, I surrender to, to what's happening. And in that surrender, it seems like your world opened up.

Echo:

Yes. That's how it feels, honestly. I mean, honey, I have days. Okay. Like I told you earlier, I'm having an Alzheimer's Day.

Pat:

Yeah, you did. So, okay, Echo, what does that mean?

Echo:

That means that I wake up and I'm kind of confused. Okay. I'm kind of confused. Alright. I have to look at the calendar, and then I have to look the day before. Oh, yeah. Okay. I did that yesterday. Okay. Then that means today's Wednesday. Okay. Alright, honey, I have those days and yeah. But then I'll wake up the next day. I'll be as clear as a be. I'll know that it's Wednesday. I know that I'm gonna talk to Pat at one o'clock, but today, oh wait, I have to Oh, oh, pat, one o'clock. Oh gosh. Okay. Oh, gee. So, you know, when I get like this, then I start to think, uhoh, I'm getting worse. But you know what, honey? The, the occupational therapist said, okay, I go, you're gonna have days where, uh, your memory isn't that good, and you're gonna think, oh my gosh, I'm getting worse. And he said, no, it's just another day on Earth. All the people that don't have Alzheimer's have those days. They wake up, oh, gee, what day is this today? He said, don't panic, don't decide. Oh God, this is getting worse. Okay. He said, just let yourself be okay. You might have a rough day, okay. Be patient with yourself. And that's really what I'm learning to do. Be patient.

Pat:

You're also talking about, if I go in my head, sometimes echo it is a runaway freight train of what ifs. Oh my God. I can do the work I'm an artist. So of course, my worst case scenarios are filled with all these horrible little details. So I've gotta be careful about going in my mind. Yes. Yes. And what, what I love about what you're talking about, because I wanna apply it right now. People are feeling such stress, anguish, rage. It is so hard on the heart. Yeah. And the soul of people right now, it's so stressful. It is. And I'm taking from your words, basically. Okay. All of this is happening. Stay in the moment, present moment, present time, present moment, present time. I'm sitting here, I'm having a conversation. And as opposed to, and this is happened to me where I, I'm watching, I'm going on the socials, I'm seeing too much. I have to stop.I can't, my heart can't take it.

Echo:

I know, I know.

Pat:

And it's not to, not to say to stick my head in the sand, I'll be damned. I'm not gonna do that. But how we pace ourselves and what you're talking about with Alzheimer's, you're talking about the beauty of pacing yourself. Like, oh my God, I'm not remembering this. Instead of panicking, I'm having, like, when you sent me that email, pat, I'm having an Alzheimer's day. I loved, first of all, you trust in me that you would even say that. And the second thing is, okay, I don't know. I got it. I got it. I thought, okay, today might be a day for her to have some issues with remembering things. That's fine. We'll just fly by the seat of our pants. Yeah. So full circle, what you're talking about is a little bit of a template echo for all of us dealing in this, in this, uh, stressful world of heartache.

Echo:

I know, I know. God, do I know honey? You know, this morning, that's one thing I, when I turned my phone on today, and there was something from our governor, it was something like, our president is attacking Minnesota. I thought, okay. So first of all, when we read anything on the news these days, I think all of us Minnesotans are feeling a little powerless. Okay. Like, when is this gonna stop? What are we gonna get our whatever back? And so I found myself feeling really vulnerable. Like, uh, oh, gosh. Uh, oh gosh, we're being attacked. And then it's like echo, echo, echo. Stop, stop, stop. You're not being attacked. Okay. Yeah. There's some really heavy duty stuff going on right now in our state. But then, you know what I do, sweetie? I just kind of turn it around and go, yeah. But look at how strong we are.

Pat:

Yes, yes.

Echo:

You know? Yeah. Yeah. Look at what everybody's doing. I mean, look what's happening. And then I just get really joyful about it.

Pat:

I came to the same thing as well. When I look at the neighborliness, the power of standing up for each other. I'm so proud to live in Minnesota. I can't even tell you. I know I'm in St. Paul, I'm not in Minneapolis, but we're getting it -to everybody in Minnesota's getting it, but we're together in it.

Echo:

I'm on the same page as you. Yeah. I just feel so happy to be part of it at the same time, feeling powerless, but powerful, you

Pat:

Know? That's right.

Echo:

It's just like every day we, us Minnesotans, everybody that's watching this, we have two choices. Am I gonna feel like a victim or am I gonna be the, whatever the opposite of being a victim is,

Pat:

Am I gonna be active? Am I gonna be powerful?

Echo:

Yes. Yes.

Pat:

Yeah. So let's talk about vulnerability in terms of having an illness. Sometimes vulnerability can be very powerful. And you've said in your post vulnerability has brought you closer to people rather than isolating you. Yeah. Now, when you first were diagnosed, people were saying, no, no, no, don't tell anybody. Yeah. No, no. Don't do that. Because of your brand.

Echo:

My brand.

Pat:

Which I'm still trying to figure out what the hell is a brand for someone like Echo. Okay. I digress. So you talk about vulnerability, allowing yourself to be vulnerable, uh, brought you closer to people. What do you think we misunderstand most about vulnerability, especially when it comes to an illness?

Echo:

This brings me back to the days of therapy. When I went to a new therapist and, I don't know, I took some tests and blah, blah, blah. She came back and said to me, she said, you are not a friend of vulnerability are you? And I said, vulnerability? No, I don't want anything to do with it. And she said, mm-hmm. She said, you think that you're in control, don't you? And I said, yeah, yeah. I'm in control of my emotion. Yeah. And she said, Echo, you are absolutely out of control. And I didn't understand that at all. What? No, I'm in control. No, no, you're not. You're out of control. And honey, you know, I swear to God, I thought, I'm never coming back to see this woman because she's totally crazy. And, but my intuition was like, oh, no, you're going back. And so I kept going back and I, I remember her saying, you need to surrender to vulnerability.

Echo:

And Pat, that was probably the last thing in my life I ever wanted to do. Okay. Honey. And now though, I feel so much better just being vulnerable with people. I mean, honey, I'll go to my teaching center and, and I'll say to, let's say I'm in the front room, and then I'm going to go to the kitchen. So I look at the people in the front room and I say, okay, here's the deal guys. I'm gonna go in the kitchen now because I'm gonna go take the salad out. Okay. But when I get in the kitchen, I'm gonna forget why I'm there. So I'm gonna holler and you're all gonna say, put the salad out out. Okay. And they all giggle. We all giggle. And then I go to the kitchen. Totally forgot why I was going there. They all yelled, take the salad out.

Echo:

Okay. So honey, people are getting so used to me doing this that I used to take post-it notes with me. If I was in the kitchen and I was going to go to the bedroom to do something, okay. So I'm in the kitchen, I'm writing why I'm going into the bedroom. Okay. Take the post and Oh, with me. Okay. Get to the Okay. Oh, oh, really? I for, oh, I forgot I came in here for that. Okay. It just makes it so much better to just be open about it instead of try to be this strong in control woman. Yes. So I tell people, you know what? I'm having an Alzheimer's day or nope. Today I'm good. You know?

Pat:

That's perfect. Then people can meet you where you are.

Echo:

Yes.

Pat:

And that to me is a form of control.

Echo:

Yes.

Pat:

In a sense. But to get to that, you have to be vulnerable to get that kind of control.

Echo:

Totally. Honey. Totally. I totally agree. The more vulnerable you are, the more in control you are. Yeah. 'cause you're being real and saying to people, I'm having a rough day. Okay. I can't remember anything. Or, no, I'm good today. Thanks. I'll let you know if I need help. Yeah. That's how I'm approaching it. Yeah.

Pat:

I'm really curious, as someone with psychic gifts and intuition, in a way, you're a world traveler, and I'm not talking about this world. You go into other worlds, you go in and out, you see people, you talk to people who have passed the time travel that you do, I'm gonna put over here and then I'm gonna put on the other side, Alzheimer and having an Alzheimer's day or forgetting. How does that work echo with, with the way you travel in different worlds and past, uh, people who have passed and then figuring out with Alzheimer's that plays with your memory. How do you juggle that,

Echo:

That one, that's also a challenge right now. But Pat, what has been so interesting is that since the diagnosis, my psychic abilities have gotten much stronger.

Pat:

Really,

Echo:

Honey, the readings I'm doing right now, they are blowing my mind. They're blowing the client's mind. I'm just going so deep, like into their past lives, going deep into health issues. And it's almost becoming more comfortable when I'm doing a reading than when I'm not doing a reading. Okay. It's like when I open up and I do a reading, I just go to some kind of sacred place. That's what it feels like. And then at the end of the reading, I come out of that and, oh, okay, here's yes, here's life again on earth. Okay. You know, one of the hassles for me, my whole life really is when I have something physically wrong and I go to a doctor, I can't tell them, well, I choose not to tell them that I'm a psychic, because, because of people's opinions. So I always leave that part out.

Echo:

And finally, with this neurologist, I said to her, I need to be completely open with you. I am a psychic, a professional psychic. I see visions. I get information. I see the future. I see the past. I communicate with the deceased. And I told her, I said, I don't really understand what's going on here, but ever since the diagnosis, my abilities have gotten stronger. And she said, bless your heart. She said, you know, Echo one part of the brain isn't working like it should, other parts of the brain pick up their activity, they get stronger. Okay? So that's probably what's going on here. You know, that's such a good question. And that's one thing I I'm juggling with every day is, okay, living in this world, living in this reality, but then I have this other reality over here and trying to bring them together Yeah. To let's all work together. And that's kind of how it is every day.

Pat:

I also think that as we age, we become more spirit and less body. Yeah, I agree. As we get older, uh, our bodies become frail and our spirits, you know, and if you have a big spirit and your body's starting to get frail, you, you're walking around with this big spirit. And so it seems to me that, and I, I don't know anything about your world, and I'm not trying to suggest that I do, but I have the feeling that when you say you're going deeper, it's that you can enter spirit more freely in this state for some reason.

Echo:

Yes. Yes. That's a good way to put it. Yeah. Honey's like, I just walk into this whole other world and I've got these spirit guides. I can see all of 'em. Oh, they're talking to me so clearly. Oh, I can present the information clearly, everything's good. And honey, I can, even when I'm in that space, I don't feel this headache that I constantly have. I go in, I do psychic work, I don't feel physical pain in my body. Then I come out of the psychic world, ah, there's that headache again. Yeah.

Pat:

So Echo for listeners facing memory changes, either personally or with someone they love, what do you want them to know? That fear tends to hide.

Echo:

Fear is the absolute worst. It's the worst, honey. It's like you said earlier, our minds just start going when, you know, we start with a fearful thought. Oh my God, our minds can take us in a direction we don't wanna go. And, and it'll keep going. Oh, well, what if this happens? Yeah. But what if that happens? Well, then this could happen. Oh my God, then that would help. It's terrible. So, oh God. That's why we have to, at least for me, honey, I have to watch that. I don't go down the fearful path. Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. Okay. It's like, no, no, no, I'm not going there. I'm not, I don't wanna go there. I don't, no, I can't. I can't go there. I mean, we have to stay out of fear.

Pat:

Yes. I find when I, when I go there, I just start saying to myself, "I am guided, I am loved, and everything will be all right." That's my mantra. I calm myself down like that.

Echo:

That's really good. That's really good, Pat. Yeah, honey, it is. Because we can control that.

Pat:

Yes, we can.

Echo:

A lot of people don't know that. I talk to a lot of people, honey, and they are so stuck in the what ifs and they can't get out of it.

Pat:

So Echo, when you look ahead, not far, just gently forward, what feels steady enough for you to trust?

Echo:

Hmm. Wow. Well, isn't that an interesting question? What feels steady enough for me to trust, oh God, honey. Oh, intuition and faith. 'cause I've got really good faith in the universe, and God, I wanna say clearly not a religious God. Mm-hmm. A spiritual God, okay? Mm-hmm. And, uh, the daily conversations I have intuitively that I will always be able to rely on. That's the one thing I know for sure. That's what's gonna get me through all of this, honey, is that internal guidance. I can't imagine going through life with just my mind, especially my mind right now. It's like my, my mind is like goulash, okay? And it's like, no, no, down here I've got this voice and it's so steady and it's always there, and it never goes away. And the only thing I have to do is shut up and listen and I'm gonna get the guidance I need. And that's, that's what's steady for me, always. I don't know any other way. Oh God. I hear people talk, and again, it's all fear. Well echo what if, what if echo? What if you completely forget your son? How are you gonna deal with that? I'm like, what? What? What if Will you remember your grandchildren? Well, yes. Well, what if you can't? Well, shut up. Don't talk to me like that. You know?

Pat:

Exactly. I,

Echo:

I know what if. Yeah. Yeah. So I have to be strict about that.

Pat:

Well, you're talking about something very important about when you listen to what people say to you, I taught art for many years. I would tell young people, look who you hang around with and listen to what they tell you. Because you do not wanna be around people who will say, well, why did you think that? Why are you making that? That hasn't been done before? You always want to arm yourself with people who believe in the possible, who have that belief system that they trust that when you say something, well, you'll figure it out. Or, wow, what a great idea. And I had 'em do an assignment for a whole day. Write the names of all the people that you encountered that were positive, and then write down all the people that were negative. And don't show it to me. Just look at it. Okay. And just think about those conversations and how you felt when you left each one. That's all you have to do.

Echo:

Excellent.

Pat:

So what you're talking about when people say, well, you, you might forget your son. Well, yeah. A ton of bricks might fall on me too. Okay. So shut the hell up.

Echo:

I know. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. What if I don't forget my son? What if I don't forget my grandchildren? You know? Yes.

Echo:

Shut up. Yeah.

Pat:

Basically

Echo:

Take you stuff and go, don't talk to me like that. I can't, I can't handle the, I, I don't wanna handle that.

Pat:

Yeah. But you know, Echo, there are some people that have to spill their anxiety all over whoever they're talking to. Do you notice that?

Echo:

Oh yeah.

Pat:

Like you say hi, and all of a sudden this torrent of their anxiety comes smashing at you.

Echo:

Yes. Yes.

Pat:

And you just find yourself backing away.

Echo:

Yes. Yes I do.

Pat:

Yeah. I'm sure you do. Well Echo, as we get towards the end of our conversation, I wanna thank you for coming on Fill To Capacity and I'm so grateful for your openness and your willingness to meet this moment out loud. And it's really been an honor to have you here. I wish you all the best as you move forward in your new journey.

Echo:

Thank you, honey. Yes. Let's talk again and in a few months and

Pat:

Just I would love to. And listeners, thank you for joining us today and take care. Bye.

 

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Pat Benincasa

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