How I found a bridge from my passion to my purpose. Interview with creative and entrepreneur Anne Alexander-Sieder

 This is an episode for all creatives, anyone trying to find their passion, and anyone wanting to here more about how you can sustain an income while pursuing your passion.  Anne Alexander-Sieder, an actress currently featured in A Heidelberg Holiday on Netflix, shares her adventures throughout her career journey in the entertainment industry. She discusses how she got back into acting later in life, moving from a successful voiceover and presenting career to relaunching her on-screen acting career after raising a family. Anne emphasizes the importance of adaptability, entrepreneurial thinking, and self-driven opportunities. To help relaunch her acting career again later in life and bridge the gap of inactivity -  she discovered how to curate experts and coaches and craft workshops locally.  The workshops she crafted, and now helps others craft, serve to (1) bring top-tier acting coaches to her\you locally to help brush up on acting skills, (2) earn income, (3) build community, and (4) network on a completely different level.  Anne also speaks about how fear and limiting beliefs can hinder progress and how actively pursuing one's curiosity can lead to unexpected opportunities.  You can find out more about how Anne helps actors, and other creatives, take control over their careers and use workshops to master skills across a variety of topics like acting, art, furniture rehab, cake decoration, etc..., all while earning an income at Act-Bold.com. 

@JobGuppy, find show notes and other important links from this episode.  Look for Anne Alexander-Sieder.

Key Takeaways

• Curiosity Leads to Passion – If you don’t have a burning passion, follow your curiosities and take action. They often lead to unexpected career opportunities.
• Entrepreneurial Thinking Enhances Creativity – Anne built a business by organizing workshops, allowing her to train and make money at the same time.
• Fear Never Disappears, But You Can Control It – Fear often sounds like logic, but taking action is the only way to build confidence.
• Community is Key – Building relationships in your industry opens doors and provides support through career transitions.
• AI is Changing the Creative Industry – The entertainment field is being reshaped by AI, making it crucial for actors and creatives to find unique, irreplaceable human skills.

Chapters

02:46 Target audience description
03:44 Job role description
04:28 Anne’s career journey
16:31 using workshops to brush back up on acting skills
17:48 The role of curiosity
19:18 How to find your curiosity
21:25 Anne’s multifaceted life roles
22:30 work-life-balance
24:44 Entrepreneurship
26:30 Adaptability
28:02 Misconceptions about creative roles
28:34 Maslow’s hierarchy of needs
30:24 Using workshops to meet needs
39:47 Mentorship
42:17 Education
43:33 AI impact in the creative space
48:46 the importance of community and connections
50:12 how to discover your passion
51:27 Income as an actor
54:43 Act-Bold.com workshop walkthrough
56:25 what would you do different and how to deal with fear

#careerjourney #careeradvice #careers #jobguppy

Transcript

Speaker 2 (00:00.078)
Hi, we have Anne Alexander-Seeder with us today. She is an actress who you can catch right now in the Hallmark Christmas movie, A Heidelberg Holiday, streaming on Netflix. It's worth noting this episode was recorded around Christmas holidays, so it's kind of relevant to mention that. How are you today? And go ahead and introduce yourself.

Hey Chris, I am great. My baby's in town. He's no longer baby. He's 27. He's in town with his girlfriend and I'm definitely enjoying, you know, the holidays with my son and my husband.

Well, thanks for joining the show today. This interview will be maybe a little different. We'll see how it rolls itself out. Most of my interviews, I think, are geared kind of toward a college-age audience. But what Anne explained in her introduction and bio she shared with me was later in life transitioning to different career path.

think actually college age kids might find this useful too, especially how I found a bridge from my passion to my purpose, which I then turned into my profession. Because it's something that doesn't require a lot of startup money. It just really kind of requires sweat equity and a little bit of ingenuity. And so it's really something that anyone can do at any point.

in their life.

Speaker 1 (01:35.63)
Actually, we don't need to. mean, because, you know, it's a creative career and it's something that I think is very specific to be an actor and not everybody wants to be an actor. But I think that there are a lot of people that want to have more creativity in their lives. And so I'm happy to do that. I do help actors. I have a program that helps actors. But I really focus on trained actors who've been in the business for at least a couple of years. So it's very, very specific.

So I don't really help people who are complete novices become actors. But with Passion Project, maybe it helps if I sort of back up. So I had been a professional actor in the States, which is where I'm from. And I was SAG-AFTRA, which are the two main actors' union. Then there's a third one, which is actors' equity, where, you know, that's more for theater. And I was working on my equity card as well. And I was making enough money as an actor that I didn't have to have a...

bartending job or a side hustle or whatever it is. So I was really feeling pretty good with all things considered. And then life threw me a curve ball in the shape of a hot German guy. That was about 30 years ago. And I ended up moving to Germany about 29 years ago. We started our family right away. I didn't speak German at the time. So I really didn't see a way forward with my acting career initially. But our son was probably two years old.

And I had seen a poster somewhere for the American Drama Group. I thought, okay, let me go check that out. This was in Germany in Munich where I still live. And so I went down to their office. I auditioned. It went well. The guy's name was Grantley Marshall. He's welcome to the, you know, the family and pulls out this huge paper calendar a long time ago and starts showing me their touring dates. And I was like, you know, my heart immediately sunk because

This is in Germany, right?

Speaker 1 (03:30.656)
I had a little boy and a husband, a young family. There was just no way that I could go touring around Europe nine months of the year. That just wasn't going to happen. And so I thanked him. I apologized for wasting his time. And I'm just about to shut the door. And on a whim, I leaned back in and I said, Hey, Grantley, you don't happen to know anybody here in Munich that I could speak with, you? And he gave me two names. And I just want to stop here for a sec because I think this is something it's, was such a good lesson.

me to put the ask out there, you know, and especially when it's an easy lift for people. So it was nothing. He literally just thought for two seconds and gave me two names. I don't even think he gave me their numbers. I think he was just like, here are these names and go look them up. And so was a really easy thing for him to do. And I think people like to be useful and they like to have their advice asked for. And so it was sort of a win-win situation for both of us.

was really a win for me because both of these people became pivotal for me in launching my voiceover career in Germany. And I had a really prolific voiceover career for about 20 years doing all sorts of jobs for any kind of major German company that you can imagine and think of, including probably companies you haven't heard of. So, you know, some of the smaller names and things like that.

So sometimes I was doing five studio jobs in a day, but they were really fun. They were really lucrative and they were really flexible. So I could show up at the studio with my little boy and my dog and I could do it all on my own schedule. And even when I had a ton of jobs in a day, I still could take my son to the playground, get home in time to make dinner, know, do all the things because we had a very traditional relationship. And so that was kind of life.

For the first 16 years, the voiceover led to presenting. Also for all of these big German companies. I also did some Canadian television, game shows, those kind of things. And then that led to commercial work. And it was all acting adjacent, but it wasn't very creative. Wasn't what I signed up for. Wasn't what I imagined when I went to acting school. And...

Speaker 1 (05:49.644)
I did that for about 16 years. then one day my son and I had a standing movie date on Friday nights. And on Thursday, he came to me one day and said, mom, I don't want to hang out with you on Friday nights anymore. And so, yeah, that day. So it was kind of bittersweet. I mean, you know, we all raise our kids to be independent and to live their own lives. so. it was really Chris, it was like the first time I could think about just me.

How dare they do what we taught them to

Speaker 1 (06:19.404)
What do I want? Not like what should we do as a family? What should I do with my son? What should I do with my husband? But what do I want? I think my husband was away golfing that weekend or something. So it was just me. And I thought I just want to have some fun. And my idea of a good time is taking an acting workshop. And so I just sat down and on a whim Googled Acting Workshop Munich English, which it was not normal to have any of that. And one popped up. There was a coach out of LA.

teaching a workshop, there was one seat open and starting the next day. So I whipped out my credit card, I saved my spot and showed up to it the next day with my packed lunch and my full thermos. Really excited, really hopeful, little bit nervous and it was amazing. I often wonder what my life would have looked like had it not been amazing, but it was amazing. And what I realized was I had this pilot light burning inside of me for 16 years. And during that workshop,

It just combusted and reminded me about everything that I loved about acting. Except that I was rusty. know, acting is like sports or like music. You have to continually make sure your instrument is tuned. Otherwise, you're not going to sound very good or look very good when you're playing. My first thing was like, wow, I really want to get back into acting. But first things first, I need to...

get over being rusty. So that was my first challenge. And I find that the solution you will often find within the problem itself. So my problem was I was rusty. So the solution was to get training. So then the next problem was, well, I wanted the training to be in English because I didn't want to add that extra layer of having to act and react in a foreign language in something that wasn't my tongue. I just wanted to be able to spontaneously...

React and I could go to London, New York, LA and get the training that I wanted from these amazing instructors that I wanted to work with. But that obviously would have been cost prohibitive. So it would have limited me to one or two times a year and time prohibited. So that presented the second kind of opportunity, which was, okay, how can I get the training here in Munich? And that's when I started reaching out to these amazing coaches that I...

Speaker 1 (08:43.692)
wanted to work with and just feeling it out. You know, would you be open to coming to Munich? How can we make this happen? And I knew I only needed a handful of other actors to make it viable because my original intention was just to get the training at the same price that I would pay in Munich. But what ended up really quickly happening was I got amazing training for free. I was building a community and this is before community, the word like the idea of community, this was...

know, 13, 14 years ago, it was not a thing like it is today. So I didn't realize how important that would be when I actually launched my career, having a group of other people who were on this journey with me, who were already involved with acting, and how important that support is and having those people around you when you're starting something new.

And lastly, I was also earning like a thousand to two thousand euros per workshop. So I was doing that once to twice a month, bringing in coaches to Munich. And then I was organizing workshops in between for whoever had taken those big workshops, I called them. I was organizing little workshops around that so that we could practice whatever we had learned in the big workshop. So I did that for about a year and a half until I felt like I was ready.

And because I was so kind of myopic about the whole thing, I was only interested in getting the training, getting to a point where I had my confidence back and I felt strong in my skills again. And then it was like, okay, done with that. That served its purpose. And now I'm ready to launch my career. And that's what I did. And it was very interesting because now in retrospect, I see how useful this bridge was to getting the skills I needed.

which is why I'm starting a whole new program around it called Passion Project to Pro. But maybe I'll sort of stop there because I saw you writing a lot and so maybe you have some questions.

Speaker 2 (10:45.96)
One one's a technical question equity card. What is that for a listener who might be listening and not know what that means? You mentioned that early on. Yeah

As I mentioned, there are three actors unions, SAG, which is Green Actors Guild, AFTRA, which is American Federation of Television and Radio, and the Equity, which is theater. That's all.

Is that a website or a network name?

It's an actual union, like the Teamsters or whatever.

Where did you start before Germany? Because you were in Germany when kind of this bridge started manifesting. And before you met the hot German guy, like where did you start your career journey that eventually moved around? But kind of where did that start off in your life at?

Speaker 1 (11:18.808)
Yes.

Speaker 1 (11:28.344)
So I had a very traditional theater training. Back then, we're talking, God, almost 40 years ago now. So I mean, it was a long time ago and the training for an actor was pretty much based in the theater. So it was like how to walk across stage, how to project your voice, how to speak from the mask, how to breathe, how to do all of these kinds of things. We did a lot of very classical things, Shakespeare, Moliere, Marlowe, the American classics, Tennessee Williams.

Edward Albee, those kind of things. When I finished that, the school that I was at used to bring in instructors from RADA, which is the Royal Academy of Dramatic Arts in London. A bunch of us, when we finished our studies in Chicago, we did a semester abroad at RADA. And I did that with my best friend at my school. And then afterwards, we backpacked around Europe for a few months. And I fell in love with Europe.

I knew that I wanted to get back. So after backpacking around Europe, I came back to Chicago, did some theater, you know, was doing stuff. But I was always like had in the back of my mind I wanted to get back to Europe. And my sister was studying at the Sorbonne, which is in Paris. So I went and stayed with her for a while. And then I went on to Rome and ended up there for about two years, which was amazing. And I was doing all sorts of different things. I was modeling, I was...

acting, was, you know, whatever, like tour guiding. was, you know, doing just like, I was 22, 23. Yeah, but I was still concentrating on acting and, you know, and acting when I could when I was there as well. And I came back to Chicago again, back to theater, started writing, had written a couple of plays, had those produced. Then I started getting into the writing for theater, got me into screenwriting, which

You're just enjoying being there.

Speaker 1 (13:24.12)
which got me interested in directing. So then I was off at NYU, tish for a little bit. And I think it was around that time that I met my husband and yeah, ended up here.

Yeah, that's what I was looking for. it sounds like you've had this kind of as life has moved through, you've had a parallel path that's flowed with it and that always a little bit associated to some degree at some level with acting, theater, know, screenplay, you mentioned voiceover. You've really been in the industry throughout your career. It's just kind of what you did in the industry along the way that's moved around a little bit into where you are today.

I've been acting since I was professionally since I was probably 22. I started studying when I was about 18, 17, 18 and it's always been what I how I self-identify as an actor.

No, and that sounds legit too. So bring some credibility to it. You mentioned on your workshop setup that you had started where you started reaching out to people to bring in some coaches. At first I took it as these people were just like, yeah, I'll come take a trip or you might've even paid them to come over. But it sounds like, cause you mentioned at one point you were making a thousand euros or more on some of these workshops. So was this something you actually like a structure you set up where you brought people in and people signed up for the workshop?

Yes, I was bringing people in from London, from New York, from LA. I have this whole system now because I've been doing it for years where I would structure in the price. knew exactly how many participants I needed to cover my costs, how many participants I needed to make a profit. And as I said, initially, my goal was just to get the training. So all I wanted was to get close to covering my costs, because even if I didn't entirely cover my costs, then I would just be paying what I would pay.

Speaker 1 (15:10.156)
to go to that workshop if they were already immune.

But that's very ingenious. You brought them to you, still got what you wanted out of it, accomplished your goals of staying around with your family, and somehow figured out a way to make money off of it too. So that's actually very ingenious.

Yeah. And this is why I say it's something that, I mean, I think that anybody could do it. You know, I mean, I college kids can do this too. I truly believe that your, your passion, your curiosity, because not everybody has a burning passion, but most people have curiosities. My son didn't have a burning passion. And so I always used to say to him, honey, follow your curiosity because your curiosity is going to get you on the road to somewhere.

and you may find your passion along the way. And he has. He's super into outdoor things. He loves nature. He loves hikes. He loves survivalism. He loves all that kind of stuff. And so that has become his passion, but he wouldn't have known it if he hadn't followed his curiosity. So I truly believe that your curiosity, your passion, whatever you want to call it, is your key to finding your purpose on this planet, in this life.

And I like the way you phrased that. One question I like to ask people is how did you know this is what you wanted to do? You've answered it already, you know, but people struggle I think with that of how do I know this is what I want to do? But I think that's a great way to describe it is some people do have a burning passion. Like I always knew what I wanted to do. once I started going into high school on into college, I never questioned it, never struggled. And I've always enjoyed it my whole career. But then other people don't have that burning passion, but the curiosity is there for different things. And so yeah, telling them to

Speaker 2 (16:51.874)
whatever your curiosities, you know, that's another way they can figure out, well then what do I want to do? Well, like you said, it's not that you don't have a burning passion, but what are you curious about? Like start self-reflecting on those things and that could lead to something.

Even more than reflecting, like get on the road, like start moving towards it. I know this is geared towards college kids, so they're doing a lot of studying, which is great. Don't stop your studying, but it's the actual doing, like start messy, especially when we're talking about living. So I help people turn what they love into what they do without having to be an expert, an influencer or a coach. And the only way to do that,

is by starting messy. Yes, I give people a structure. I hold their hands. I literally will walk them through all of the steps of everything that I learned about creating these events around your event, around your curiosity, around your passion. But it's the action that creates the confidence. So actually taking the action, not preparing to take.

Yeah, and I can kind of relate to that because the podcast me getting started was a little hesitant you see all the shiny polished things and I was like I'm never gonna get there though if I don't just start doing something and figure out what it and doesn't work along the way Exactly. Yeah, I would say messy was a good way to describe the beginning I've changed several things since then but I would never would have known it if I would have just kept watching YouTube videos on how to do a podcast and what equipment do you need things like that? You know, you don't know until you do it. So yeah great advice there. I'm

Except.

Speaker 2 (18:25.528)
doing.

So true. Yeah, I always say imperfect action is better than, you know, no action. If you're waiting to get that A plus before you even start, you have to think of everything in life is a question of, I don't want to say trial and error because I don't really believe so much in errors. I believe we learn, right? That was like you tried something and okay, maybe it didn't work. So you learned not to do it that way.

I think it was Thomas Edison that had, he didn't call them failures, he was like, I learned 1,072 times how not to do it before I figured out how to do it.

So if we were to kind of move on through the interview, like how would you describe your role that you would like to speak to today if you were to break it down from somebody doing stuff? But if you were to say if somebody wanted to do what I do, would you focus more on the actress or would you focus more on the business model that you've set up and coaching?

We are all multifaceted diamonds. Nobody is just one thing. And I'm no exception. So I'm an actor. I'm an entrepreneur. I'm a coach. I'm a mom. I'm a wife. I'm a dog mom.

Speaker 2 (19:38.37)
No, that's perfect. That is perfect because it doesn't have to be a one word answer. I'm not looking for like, what is the one word answer? It's you're all of these and how do you blend that? So then it becomes, that's great. So we have all those roles. And then how do you blend all that together? So if I kind of went through, like if somebody wanted to, they find this interview really interesting and they want to consider something like this and kind of shape, maybe they've had ideas about something similar and that resonated with them.

and they find themselves relating to you a lot and everything they've heard that you just described. How would you say your last few weeks, holidays aside, let's maybe step outside of the holidays, but what would you say your lifestyle is like then on a day-to-day basis? How much time do you spend between all of these if you were to kind of break it down a little bit for someone listening to get some insight? if I wanted to do that, this is what I should be prepared for. More time here, more time there.

An actor's life is not like a CPA's life. We don't have a set schedule unless you're on a show, and then you have a set schedule. Even then, though, that changes week to week. I get an audition. Sometimes I get a bunch of auditions in a week. Sometimes I don't get any auditions in a week. Sometimes I get booked off those auditions, and then I'm off shooting. So that's what the life of an actor looks like. The life of a coach. So I have a program that I...

have running right now called Get Better Roles. And that's for actors who are trained and who have been in the business for at least a couple of years, but feel like even though they've been doing all the right things, they may have an agent, the casting directors know them, they are sending out their quarterly blast to the casting directors to let them know they're still alive. They're still not getting the roles that they deserve, that they feel they're ready for. So I help them with the business.

of being an actor. I think I'm lucky in a sense that my brain really is, I'm really kind of half and half. I have a very entrepreneurial brain and I also have a really creative brain. I think in both of those directions and I, but a lot of artists, they're just like, no, I didn't, that's not what I signed up for. just, you know, I just want to act. But the problem is that only works if you have a whole team around you who's

Speaker 1 (21:56.43)
all invested in you and only you. And that doesn't happen until you reach a certain level. Most actors, I'm a working actor. I'm not a household name. So I can make my living as an actor. I can pay my bills as an actor. But I'm sure, you know, most of your listeners have never heard of me or would even recognize me if we passed each other on the street. And there are many, many, many actors.

like that. of the questions I have are what we don't have to get exactly into them. But I think some of these you're just answering organically, you know, but it is what are the surprises? And I actually was going to come back around and kind of ask you some of that about your entrepreneurial side. You know, like what the word that came to my mind was you probably want to be a little more business minded than you probably assume one would be to get into this is kind of how I was hearing what you were saying is the number of people walking around on the street you don't recognize that are

pursuing the passion and they're having a good lifestyle. Not everybody is as starving, working, bartending. In Hollywood, there's many people who can have successful lives and sounds like you've had a successful life throughout, but you had to bring some business savvy to it. It wasn't just sitting around and auditioning.

I mean, and that's great. If you can just sit around and audition, you are going to book some stuff. So, but a lot of actors are not even getting those auditions.

But do you think people getting started, and don't know if you know this for a fact or not, but do you think people getting started in the beginning of their journey realize that that's a good trait to have or that they should maybe leverage that more often?

Speaker 1 (23:32.662)
Most definitely not. Most of the actors that I work with, to be very honest, are 40 and up. I was 47 when I decided to relaunch my acting career. At a time when a lot of people are like, okay, it hasn't worked yet. Maybe it's time to hang this up and actually get a real job. I was like, no, I need to see where this goes. don't want to get to the end of my life and wonder where it could have gone.

Yeah. And I think your business sense and entrepreneurship has helped you stay related to it and be happy this whole time in a field that you're enjoying what you're doing. But it's that side of the entrepreneur side of you that has helped us keep going so that you could jump back in at this point.

really adaptable. This is how I've been able to live in different countries, living in Italy, I lived in the south of France, I lived in Paris for a while, I lived in London, lived in Germany, LA, New York, Chicago, Detroit. I am adaptable. That probably just comes from bouncing back and forth between my parents as a kid and always changing schools and things like that. And also, I don't like to be told no. I am going to figure out a way. And I don't like to be dependent. So yes, my husband, he makes more money than I do.

I would never want to be 100 % dependent on anybody. I like to know that I'm here because I want to be here and not because I need to be here. Like when I first moved to Germany, it was like, okay, I didn't have a work permit or anything, but I immediately started putting up notices teaching kids English, teaching kids theater, just English through theater, you know, doing theater games and like trying to like, how, can I do to take the skills that I have?

and the things that I enjoy and find a way to get what I need out of that. And I think I've always been pretty good at finding that, you know, which is how I was able to get into voiceover, which led to presenting, which led to commercials, which eventually led back to acting. And yeah, I think it's important to kind of stay light on your feet. But your question was, how do creative people, and it's not just actors, because artists, musicians,

Speaker 1 (25:43.958)
writers, you know, it's all kind of in the same bag. How do you make a living at a lot of these creative endeavors and a lot of the misconceptions around creative endeavors? And one of them is that I was certainly sold as a young theater student, young acting student was that you needed to suffer for your art. And there are, there's a lot of people who still believe that, that if you're not suffering, you're not really, you don't really want it bad.

things like that. And I don't think that that's useful. So I think that that's a big misconception. I think that it's important to find a way to sustain yourself, to create income in a way that supports your career so that you can be free. Because when we're worried about our existential life, right? How are we going to pay our rent? How are we going to put food on the table? That doesn't leave a lot of room for creativity.

I'm sure you're familiar with Maslow's pyramid. It's Maslow's hierarchy of need. And it starts with, you know, we all as human beings, we have our existential needs. We need shelter. We need food. Those are just our base needs. Then it goes up, I don't know it by heart, but it goes up and it's something like then we need to belong. We need community. And then it goes up to we need love. We need to feel like we're making it.

impact, we need to feel like we're making a contribution. And it keeps going up as you get higher up the pyramid. These are the things where you don't need them, but they become what gives you that fulfilling life. So a lot of actors are just, they're trying to live in the top of the pyramid. They're trying to reach their full potential as a human being, but they're dealing with these existential needs.

I don't know where I'm sleeping. I don't know what I'm going to eat. I don't know how I'm going to pay my rent. I don't know how I'm going to feed my kids. I don't, you know, and that doesn't, it, they, don't go well together. It makes you very nervous and desperate. Like I need this job, right? And that's, people can smell that. They don't, it's not attractive. So anything that an artist can do and a creative person can do to alleviate that desperation is good.

Speaker 1 (28:09.782)
And that's why I've used these workshops, these events, because sometimes they're online, sometimes they're seminars, sometimes they're workshops, sometimes they're retreats. So I'll just call them events, like as a blanket thing for them. For different things, initially I just use the events to get the training I needed. But then later on, as I relaunched my career and I started to notice there were many things that I didn't know about the business of being an actor.

you know, I wanted to get more and more control over my career. And there were things that I, different things that I did to do that. One of them was making, producing short films and that's expensive. Filmmaking is expensive. So I was just like, hmm, how can I just get some extra money to produce these films? And then I would host a few events, you know, whatever they were, or if I needed some specific training, like I was hired as a lead in a film where I was supposed to be playing a sheriff. So I had to.

be good with guns and there was a lot of sort of fun stuff that went along with it. And so I needed to feel very comfortable with guns and I'm not a gun person. So I hired a weapons expert to come in and teach me and other actors how to handle weapons in a way that looks authentic. So they became very useful for that kind of a thing. And then most recently, I also use the workshops to network with people who I wanna work with because

It levels the playing field. So for instance, if I want to work with a specific casting director or a producer or a director, whatever it may be, I may invite them to do a workshop, to do a seminar, to do something where I'm able to pay them because that is literally offering, literally, very literally offering them something in value. And it also levels the playing field. I'm no longer just this little actor.

asking this big-time casting director to do something. Now we're just two people. I'm offering something. They've got something to give.

Speaker 2 (30:13.912)
Yeah, it's not a favor, it's a transactional at that point. Like we're equal here, like in a sense, like you said, level in the playing field.

It levels the playing field. I don't like transactional, but you're right. It is transactional.

It's not a favor in that sense, know, like where I owe you now because you did me this favor. You're just like, I'm helping you, you're helping me. We've leveled the play on Phil.

And I also try and make sure that I'm able to have these conversations with the people and really let them get to know me. And if it's something, you know, like I will also participate in the workshop so they can also see me as an actor. So it's really great for networking on a whole nother level as an actor. So I could imagine it for other things as well, or other, especially other creative things or other people, but.

Here's the other thing, you're building authority. So you start to get associated with that level of person because you're bringing them in by the community that you are also naturally building.

Speaker 2 (31:15.678)
It's almost like you're showing some leadership to take in leadership and people will look to that as a position authority kind of speaking of that It's a good lead into a question half like you mentioned how you have provided for yourself some of this I guess mentorship is not the right word but how you have gotten experience along the way Did you have any mentorship yourself like that? You look to other people along the way How did you find that and how well would you recommend for people there? I know you have your service, you know, but for somebody who's not

may be able to participate in your service, but how would they find those specific tangible mentorship type?

So it really just depended. mean, as most artists, most creatives don't have a problem taking a class and what they like to do. So that's kind of a no brainer. And those are mentors. Those are coaches. It wasn't until I realized, for me, I had a lot of limiting beliefs around my age. As I mentioned, I was 47 when I started the, when I decided I needed to relaunch my acting career. By the time I was ready to do it, I had finished.

the year and a half of trainings that I had kind of put myself through. I was almost 50. So I had a lot of limiting beliefs around my age and also my lack of perfect German, even if I could really... My German is really good now. I've been here for almost 30 years, so it should be, but you can still hear that I'm not a native speaker. And so, and I'm never going to change that. You know, I learned German when I was in my thirties, so it is what it is. And instead of like...

Initially, I think I was really trying to fight that, fight my age, fight my accent. And it's a losing battle. These were two things I can't change. And so I realized that I needed to get over these limiting beliefs. At that point, I had become a, I decided to become a life and career coach initially just to help myself. But what it was so interesting about it was it made me realize that if I could just adopt somebody else's framework and strategies.

Speaker 1 (33:11.916)
then I could condense my timeline. And that really kind of opened my eyes. It was like, who, what else don't I know? And that's really set me on this odyssey of like, well, I don't know anything about the business of being an actor. It is just a business. So let me get a business coach. Let me get a branding coach. Let me get a marketing and networking. And I've had coaching in all of those areas. And I still have business mentors that help me with my...

business with my, you know, with Act Bold. Yes, I'm like a mentor or a coach's dream because if I like what you are selling, I will buy again and again and again. So it depends what you're into, right? So for instance, with Passion Project to Pro, it's a six week program where we start with ideation, then we go on to what kind of an event would be good for you.

How did you find these? What do you look for?

Speaker 1 (34:08.322)
The following week is all about finding your people, finding your experts, your coaches, your influence, whatever it may happen to be that you need. For instance, I have someone who's signed up who's interested in furniture renovation, furniture, refurbishing furniture, I guess you would call it. So that's everything from woodworking to upholstery, things like that. And you literally just start with.

Those things, one of the things I would recommend, and I do have a free workbook. It's a pretty comprehensive workbook that your listeners are welcome to download. It doesn't cost a thing. And if they're interested in learning how to do these things for themselves, it will certainly get them started. They can find that at actballtraining.com slash P as in passion, the number two. So small P number two.

Yeah, and just for the listeners, I'll put this on the web. We'll have a webpage for this interview specifically, so listeners can go to that webpage and find this information too.

Yeah, so depending on what your thing is, right, for someone who's interested in reupholstery, furniture refurbishing, start on Facebook, start on Instagram, start on Reddit, start where you hang out. That is always the best place. And reach out to those people. Start in your community. So if you are in a city, a town, I'm sure there's a furniture upholsterer.

So, you know, if you're not interested in that, I have somebody else who's interested in cake decoration with the intent of possibly starting a cake decorating business. This other person I was just talking about with the furnitures wants to do a furniture flipping and, you know, finding something really cheap at a flea market and making it gorgeous and selling it. So reach out to the people in your community, whether that's a virtual community or an actual community where you live.

Speaker 1 (36:06.048)
In this day and age, we have so many people who are coaches. They've been sort of sold this bill of goods that they only need to be two steps ahead of whoever they're coaching. And so what you have are a lot of coaches who are not very successful because they have a lot of imposter syndrome. And yet they probably have a lot of valuable information to give. And they're struggling to make ends meet. So reach out to those coaches, because I'm sure that you could work something out to hire them.

to do a workshop with you, to do an event, to do a seminar, to do a supper, to do a hike, whatever your thing is. And that's kind of the beauty of this. And what I love about Passion Project Pro is I'm bringing all of these people together. Yes, I do have some actors who will definitely be taking it, but there are also, as I say, like somebody who's interested in furniture reupholstery, someone else is interested in cake decorating.

My son is going to be participating. He's interested in survivalism. So organizing these events where they go out into the wild in sort of a two or three day thing where everybody goes out with, I don't know, a knife, some flints, or I don't even know what's all involved with that. But in a safe kind of a way where people are learning how to set fires in a safe way so they're not setting forest fires, how to.

maybe catch something and do whatever you need to do to eat it.

We've covered a lot of good things here try to recap some of you know, like you have a multi-dimensional Career path, you know, you talked about how you got started mentorship along the way, know what you do right now how you supported your passion throughout it and also, know how you found mentorship and what you would recommend for others to do by the way that was I interviewed recently a kind of a career coach as part of a this interview series and she's the one that turned me on to

Speaker 2 (38:00.93)
go look on Facebook for finding podcast groups. And I'd been doing this for like a year and it's kind of like it made so much sense when she said it, but if somebody hadn't actually spoke it to me, I was struggling at that point with looking for how to find guests. I'd run out of my list of friends and family and second connections. And it was that kind of networking that led me to you, was just going out and finding a Facebook community group that's got a similar interest in.

And you know, if you follow someone, you know, like whatever you're interested in, obviously, this is not for people who won't need a higher degree, but there are so many things that people can do.

that don't need a higher degree that you can actually make a decent living on. We all have people that we follow on Instagram, on YouTube, whatever it is. Reach out to them. You would be amazed at how accessible people are. People who you think are not accessible. I mean, maybe Mr. Beast might not have time for you. You know, there are going to be lots of people in whatever you're into who would be more than happy to share their passion.

with your community as well.

That came as a surprise to me actually because a lot of people feel like they want to be out there but not have any level of participation or get pulled into other people's lives so to speak or maybe that's just me, I don't know. I found that as I talked to people there were several people that are like I put on my LinkedIn to hit me up for mock interviews. I list that as an offering not even for my job but for people that are in cybersecurity and want to...

Speaker 2 (39:36.45)
do interviews or practice their interviewing skills. Like I had a guy tell me that, another one was a pilot and he says, yeah, feel free to have people get in touch with me. Like I would love to talk to more people. And I was surprised that these people are being open and making themselves accessible. Just click on the connect button and send me a message. Let me know what you want to talk about. And I was like, wow, that's pretty neat. Like I was kind restoring my faith in humanity that people are willing to do that. So I'm glad you brought that up too.

Why I was recapping was leading up to the next topic we'll talk about a little bit is education. And so you actually kind of jumped on into it right there when you mentioned what people's assumptions on educations are. You mentioned you did go through some classes in college. What level of college would you think is needed nowadays to pursue some of this, if any? And are there named colleges that are like, I call them golden tickets, the top three, you go here.

chances are very high for you versus if you just go to some, you know, non unknown school like is there that kind of distinguishment as well?

think a university is really useful for many jobs, but I also think it's a huge waste of time and a huge burden. know, people get into these huge financial burdens to learn something like filmmaking. I mean, we could use that one, you know, where they're spending a quarter of a million dollars to get this degree in filmmaking, where if they had just spent that...

learning how to make films, like actually making the films. They wouldn't even need to spend that much and they would be so much further ahead. Obviously, I don't want a doctor who doesn't have a degree. There are a lot of jobs where people do need to have a degree, but there are a lot of jobs where you don't. And I think that in this day and age, especially in this day and age, and it's changing very, very, very, very quickly with AI.

Speaker 1 (41:28.354)
So I'm not sure what the jobs of the future are going to be, but I do think that because of the advent of AI, and AI is going to be taking a lot of our creative jobs away, but it's not going to take away the desire to be creative in human beings because we are creative creatures. We're also not going to want to stop having community with each other, belonging. That's a very important part of being a human being is belonging to family, to friends, to groups.

It's important for us. And so that's not going to change. The question is, what is the shape of that look like? And we are already living in a niche world, and I think that it's only going to get more so. But I don't know. Are you familiar with the article, 1,000 True Fans?

not that article specifically, Definitely.

You should look it up. It's a great article. can't remember the writer of the article, but it's a great article. And the premise of it is, is that to make a living at $100,000 a year, you only need 1,000 true fans who are willing to give you $100 a year. And when you think about it in those terms, that's not that much. That's not that much to make a decent living. That's assuming just that people are giving the base $100, right?

There are, I think that we are going to be living more and more in a niche world and that people are going to be able to make their livings more and more on their passions and on their, by following their curiosities. And I think in a lot of ways, it's going to be a lot more fulfilling as long as people are using AI and not letting it rule us. So I think AI definitely has its place. It's definitely very useful. I use it all the time.

Speaker 1 (43:13.304)
But it's not a replacement for our creativity and it's not a replacement for our community, for our conversation. But it is going to replace a lot of creative jobs. It already has started to. So it's already started to replace actors on commercials. It's already started to replace voiceover in commercials and industrial films and things like that. So that's, it's already started to, you know, replace paintings and...

All sorts of things. So it's definitely coming.

And that was part of the question is, you specifically, then generally speaking too, for the industry, how do you feel AI is affecting you? And like in your role, you have very tangible, you you put workshops together for people, you talk to people, you coach people specifically. AI can help you, but I would venture to say you're not going to get replaced with AI with what you do. And as far as the workshop setups and stuff like that, but then like you mentioned other roles in the industry, creative industry.

are already being impacted and you mentioned some of those roles too. And just like my engineering field, don't feel necessarily threatened by AI if anything, it's a tool to help me versus I do know other engineering disciplines that have been 100 % affected by AI. does sound like people that want to get into this creative venture in their life would probably want to pay a little more attention to AI if they have been blowing it off and not get too far into something or invested financially into something time-wise and realize if they had thought about it.

five years earlier AI was already playing a role in that. Like my son wants to look into voiceovers and two years ago that was a conversation like yeah that sounds interesting but now like you seriously need to reconsider or not reconsider. No that could be the answer I haven't looked into it but it's like I know AI is direct as now come into the picture you should be looking into it so for the listeners if this is this is something to pay attention to and not just assume you can ignore it you definitely do some research on your part about what your

Speaker 1 (44:53.698)
Yeah, you should reconsider.

Speaker 2 (45:09.836)
getting into and see where AI plays that role.

So I think that what's not going to be able to be replaced are things that we do with our hands, things that we need to have interaction with. This is also why I'm so passionate about Passion Project Pro. I'm trying to stay light on my feet as an actor. I've already noticed that the voiceover work has dwindled. I've already seen major commercials. Coca-Cola just made their Christmas commercial with zero living people. It's all AI. I've already seen these things happening. But you're right.

the human interaction, helping small groups of people to do something meaningful to them and building community around that, I think is not only going to be the future, but I also think it is a way to create more meaning in your life.

It's almost like that becomes a job in itself that kind of didn't used to have to be there, but is almost a need now to create these community groups because they used to happen organically, internet, virtual world, you know, a lot of that's been taken away and people don't organically do it anymore. And so you're, one of your roles is you're actually making those community groups now that don't organically happen anymore like they used to. There's a need for that in a sense. Yeah.

The world is open and the more open it gets, the more isolated we become in some ways. And it's not healthy. I think that we need, you know, again, I've said it like 5,000 times, I think already, but we need that connection. It is a way to build connections around what you love. And I think that that's so important because another thing I used to tell my son all the time when he was going through his angst phase and all of that.

Speaker 1 (46:51.416)
was, know, honey, you just need to get on your road. You need to choose a direction and start off. You don't have to stay on that direction, but you need to start because on that path, you're going to meet other people. So if you have a curiosity around woodworking, get on that path. You're going to meet other woodworkers. That may lead you in a whole nother direction. It may lead you to lacquering furniture or building instruments. I don't know.

but you won't know either until you get on that road. And it may be something that's very broad in the beginning. I just like working with my hands. I don't know what that means. Some people come to me with a very specific idea of what they want to do. Yes, I have a passion around knitting. I have a passion around yoga. I have a passion around self-help. And these are all things that you can create events, retreats, workshops, seminars.

all of these things around. But some people come and they're like, I don't know. And I think that that's a very valid thing. And I think especially a lot of young people today really struggle because we're told we need to have a passion. You're supposed to have a passion. And then they feel like they're inadequate or something because they're not mega passionate about something. And I think, again, it goes back to follow that curiosity. But I also love to prompt people with, what's your perfect day look like?

What does that day look like getting up from morning to night? Or if they're like, I don't know, playing video games, right? Okay. What is it that you like around those video games? What video games do you gravitate to? Or let's take it back. What was a class that you really enjoyed in school? Maybe there was a game. Is there a game that you really enjoy playing? Is there an activity that you really like to do?

Is it outside? Is it walking? Is it playing a sport? Is it, you know, is it painting? Is it, what is it that if you could just do nothing else and get paid to do it, what would you want to do? Because there is a way to get paid to do it. It may not be mean you are the expert at it. It may just mean that you are the organizer of the experts, the curator of the experts in your learning alongside them.

Speaker 2 (49:12.598)
So I'm glad you brought up the word paid. We've talked about making an income, but you have a wide breadth there. Normally if I'm talking to a lawyer or a engineer, I can kind of specifically ask them some questions about ramp up time. Schools that help you have a more lucrative lifestyle. So I'm not sure how to phrase the questions here, but I would somehow like to kind of touch on the income. Well, that's what I'm wondering, like, because you kind of had some different roles here.

of what, being an actor?

Speaker 1 (49:36.91)
As an actor, you know, you can make nothing all the way on up to hundreds of millions of dollars. So I mean, and there's a wide span in between there. Most actors, I think, like, like if you're earning 50,000 to 100,000 a year, you're doing okay as an actor.

Would you say that a lot of actors that people may not know their names are able to have that kind of lifestyle? is it the top 1 % of the people are these multi-millionaires and then maybe 1 % make nothing and 98 % of the people make this comfortable lifestyle? Or is it more like only 10 % have a comfortable lifestyle and 80 % don't and 10 % are millionaires?

Yeah, it's probably like that. 2 % are making amazing money, millions of dollars per film, per series. Then another 10 % are making a decent living anywhere between $50 to a million dollars a year or whatever. And then the rest are not.

And you said only like 10 % of people probably in that bracket. It's kind of near. Okay. No, that's helpful because that brings more importance back to the having some entrepreneurial.

For sure, it's super important to find another way to support yourself. For me, I'm so passionate about Passion Project to Pro. It is a way to support your acting career while you support your acting career. We have to pay for training. We have to pay for actors work photo shoots. That's another thing. You you could easily organize a photo shoot with one photographer, pay him for the day.

Speaker 1 (51:10.816)
and get three different looks with five other actors. And then you've got, you're paying for the photographer, you're paying for a makeup artist, you're paying for the studio. Everybody's chipping into that. We are all creative. I do truly believe that we are all creative human beings, just to varying degrees. And using that creativity to think outside the box. Like think about what do I need and how can I get this? Because most people stop at, I can't get it because I don't have the money.

Or I can't get it because I don't have the time. Or I can't get it because it's too far. Stop looking at the roadblocks and start thinking, what can I do? How can I do?

And I'm okay with you mentioned in passion project to pro because I think that's kind of the theme of this particular episode is not so much what you do specifically, but the amount of information you have brought into this episode for somebody listening to, to reconsider their approach to things. If it's not working out like they expect it, that that's not a roadblock. That's not the end of the road. So I do think the passion project to pro just keep reiterating that over and over and what that means.

how that can manifest itself in different ways is actually very pivotal here. So yeah, it's fine if you mention it because I don't know how else to kind of like describe the show.

I don't mean to do the shameless plug all the time, but this is why I also offer the free workbook. Yes, obviously I would love your listeners to reach out to me and I would love to guide them through getting their first workshop launched, because that's what the program is. I take them from ideation. The next week we're looking for finding their experts, their coaches. The following week we're figuring out their costs and all of that. The following week we're finding the participants. All the way up to week five where

Speaker 1 (52:54.626)
They are launching their event. Then there's a two week hiatus in between to give everybody time to launch their event. And then we come back in week six and we do a debrief. What went well? What would you like to do differently next time? So it's literally taking them through, giving them all of my templates for the finances, for the emails, for the marketing, all of that stuff. So they're literally.

By the end of it, they will have earned back their money for the program. And more importantly, they'll have the confidence because they will have done it. Because I think that's the biggest roadblock for so many people is they don't see the end. They don't see the finished product. And it's so important sometimes to just have someone say, just take my hand and I'm going to show you how to do this. And then once you've done it, you've done it. Now you know. In any case, I always offer.

through Get Better Walls and also through Passion Project to Grow. Once you're in, you're in. Once you've paid your investment to join the program, you're always welcome to come back without an extra fee and be a part of the community and get questions answered. Who knows, maybe you're trying going from online to a retreat or something and you have questions.

I think that kind of wraps up most the last section is there anything that you would do differently?

Though for me, and I think I thought when I was young that like grownups had it all figured out and they weren't afraid to do stuff. And what I realized is, not that I'm a full fledged grownup here, is fear doesn't go away. know, fear will accompany you everywhere in life. And it shows up sounding like logic. It's like, ooh, you know, now is not the right time to do that because of X, Y, and Z or, you know,

Speaker 1 (54:43.53)
that I would do that, but I just don't have the finances to take that trip, to invest in that program, to get what I need, whatever it is, right? There are sort of these main eight kind of blind spots that people have. But the thing is it always shows up sounding like logic. And it's really there, it's that limbic part of your brain that's trying to keep you in your comfort zone. It's not a bad thing. Think of it like a helicopter, mom.

It's just trying to keep you safe. And safe is what it knows. But I can tell you, all of your big dreams, and we all have them, they're not inside your comfort zone. So you must begin to take those small steps to expand the boundaries of your comfort zone every day. And then what scared you yesterday will now lie behind you.

And sure, new things are gonna come up, but as I've said kind of throughout this, it's the action, doing that actually builds the confidence. So whereas I used to let fear get in front of me and maybe bullying me into not doing the things that I wanted to do, now I say, okay, you are welcome to stand beside me, but you are no longer going to stand in front of me. And that's something that I wish I had known when I was younger. I wish I had really considered.

when I was younger because really the biggest risk is not having lived up to your potential.

It's not on the scale you're talking about, but talking about fear, like I like the mountain bike and one thing I've kind of maybe learned the hard way. It's good to know everything that could go wrong. I do wear a helmet because I might fall. I'm prepared to accept if I go out ride, something bad may happen. But when it comes down to it, when you get ready to make that moment happen, it's more on focusing on not, okay, I'm going down and making this turn and doing this curve. And here's all the things that could go wrong while you're in the moment. But you just.

Speaker 2 (56:37.972)
go ahead and do it, take that action, and then what I've learned is just focus on how to make it go right. Because all, sides of it are there. What could go wrong, what could go right. And for me, when I get ready to commit to it and take that drop, it's like, all I can think about now is what can make this go right. Because if I think of anything else, like, yeah, I gotta look at where you wanna go, what you wanna hit. Because if you look the wrong way, you look at the tree you might run into, or the side of the cliff you might fall over, that's probably where you're move to.

You gotta be thinking about what you can do to make it go right. It doesn't mean they're not there, you haven't thought about them, but at that moment, you're just, once you've committed, making sure you're paying attention to what makes it go right. I've kind of learned the hard way that it turns out pretty good most of the time when I think of it like that, more than worrying about while I'm doing it what might happen. There is a fear factor there for sure, and how you approach it is there's psychological ways to get through it that actually do...

manifest for better results sometimes. sure. Very pointed thing to bring to it that's across a lot of dimensions of life. So, I appreciate all your time and experience you shared and advice. I've enjoyed this. I learned something from each of these. I've got a few notes here I'll leave them follow up on myself for my own personal well-being. Thank you for all those.

Thank you, Chris. This has been a real pleasure. All right. Bye bye.

We'll end it with that's a wrap.