Pop the champagne and cue the confetti because it's a milestone moment for Sanya On-Air! We're celebrating our 100th episode with an exclusive chat that you won't want to miss. We've got the powerhouse duo, Jocelyn Bioh and Whitney White, the playwright and director behind the Broadway sensation, Jaja's African Hair Braiding, in the house. As they share their journey of creating this groundbreaking play focused on black women and the immigrant experience, you'll get a front-row seat to the exploration of their casting process, community response, and the ripple effect their work is making.
As we glide through our star-studded celebration, we're not just sticking to the script. We're also dissecting the latest buzz around celebrities like Jada Pinkett Smith and Will Smith, and Shannon Sharp's eyebrow-raising opinions. Plus, be prepared to delve deeper into the conversations around black hair. Our special guests, Jocelyn and Whitney, illuminate how their play introduces hairstyles as characters, igniting discussions on potentially damaging beauty products. They're painting a vivid picture of the beauty, power, and complexities surrounding black hair, and you're invited to be a part of this enlightening conversation.
To round off this landmark episode, we're stepping into the realm of self-discovery and authenticity. Together, we'll explore the significance of nurturing creative careers and standing resolute in our truth. You'll learn why the pressure on young people to take the traditional college path can limit their potential, and how art, like Jaja's African Hair Braiding, holds the power to influence perspectives, all the way to the voting booth. So, join us on this transformational journey, and remember to hit the like button, and follow Sanya On-Air on all streaming platforms to stay in the loop!
Pop the champagne and cue the confetti because it's a milestone moment for Sanya On-Air! We're celebrating our 100th episode with an exclusive chat that you won't want to miss. We've got the powerhouse duo, Jocelyn Bioh and Whitney White, the playwright and director behind the Broadway sensation, Jaja's African Hair Braiding, in the house. As they share their journey of creating this groundbreaking play focused on black women and the immigrant experience, you'll get a front-row seat to the exploration of their casting process, community response, and the ripple effect their work is making.
As we glide through our star-studded celebration, we're not just sticking to the script. We're also dissecting the latest buzz around celebrities like Jada Pinkett Smith and Will Smith, and Shannon Sharp's eyebrow-raising opinions. Plus, be prepared to delve deeper into the conversations around black hair. Our special guests, Jocelyn and Whitney, illuminate how their play introduces hairstyles as characters, igniting discussions on potentially damaging beauty products. They're painting a vivid picture of the beauty, power, and complexities surrounding black hair, and you're invited to be a part of this enlightening conversation.
To round off this landmark episode, we're stepping into the realm of self-discovery and authenticity. Together, we'll explore the significance of nurturing creative careers and standing resolute in our truth. You'll learn why the pressure on young people to take the traditional college path can limit their potential, and how art, like Jaja's African Hair Braiding, holds the power to influence perspectives, all the way to the voting booth. So, join us on this transformational journey, and remember to hit the like button, and follow Sanya On-Air on all streaming platforms to stay in the loop!
This is not an episode. When I was coming out, we had to go outside the city. We had to go to the family water town. We downed doors. This was the first time Bill had ever gone on this family, he said. His girlfriend told him this is not a family and out of my mouth I said F.
Speaker 2:you Fans are asking for a positive women and a family and business life. That's what we're going to show, and we're going to show you how she's born when I was speaking my real story.
Speaker 1:this is the day that I am. I filled myself up with all the dreams, without a man's help, without a basketball player. This is what's taking me to the Patriot for a box White cisgendered girls have defined for us should be how we define ourselves.
Speaker 1:That's what they were saying on the street. I didn't say it. That's what they were saying on the street. It's the bad news and the bulletin. Welcome, welcome, welcome.
Speaker 1:You are now tuned into another amazing edition of Sanya On Air. I'm your host, sanya Hudson-Pain, and how do I start a feature in every single show? Well, you won't guess it this time. Today, sanya On Air is celebrating its 100th episode. Give it up for your girl. Give it up for your girl. Around the board Standing ovation. Okay, it is not easy.
Speaker 1:Sanya On Air started when podcasting was considered taboo. It was considered not a real job, not a career exploration. But I said you know what I see something about to happen in this podcasting space and I jumped right on it, and this is why I am able to bring you all new celebrity interviews, unpacking their pivotal moments and their milestones, each and every single week. So, before we go any further, what do I always ask you to do? I need you to subscribe, subscribe, subscribe. This social media space is so crazy. There's an algorithm and you really lead the algorithm. Social media pays attention to what you're watching, what you're liking and what you are reposting and who you're following. So if you are following, if you're liking, if you're reposting all Sanya On Air content, guess what More similar Sanya On Air content is driven directly your way. But once again, black girl in media. We do not see enough black women in media, especially black women of my age. We don't see that too often In this whole digital space, even in the world of television, film, music, beauty, fashion. It is all led by 20-something year olds, 30-something year old. They're starting to look at you like you might want to go and apply for AARP. So when you have seasoned women such as myself really just trying to not bring salaciousness but bring intelligent, educational, entertaining content, we need you to keep following. So let me tell you about today's guests, because you've already given it up for your girl for 100 episodes and I appreciate you so much. So, coming up on today's Sanya On Air, I'm so excited, so so excited.
Speaker 1:Two females If you have not yet heard or even seen the Broadway play Jaja's African Hair Braiding, make sure you do so. Immediately following this conversation, I have none other than Jaja's African Hair Braiding, the playwright Jocelyn Bio, and I also have the director Whitney White. They're going to be joining us in just a few short moments, so just make sure that you stay tuned. So what I want to jump into right now is let's just talk about a few things that's been happening in celebrity news, most recently over the past few months. Jaja Pinkin and Will Smith cannot stay out of the news when I tell you, I want to know who Ms Jada's PR is, who's her publicist, because this woman stays in the news all the time about salaciousness, salaciousness, the pettiness, the drama. Well, this time, honey, you know, because Will Smith and Smacked another brother and Smacked Chris Rock. That happened, but they are still trending in the news because Jada Pinkett Smith has recently announced that she and Will Smith have been separated since 2016.
Speaker 1:I love a relationship like that. I don't know if this is just. You know how seasoned women should be living their intimate relationships. Don't nobody know nothing, but y'all do. I love it. I love when you just don't know anything except what they want you to think so anyway. So she said that she and Will Smith have been separated since 2016. Sign me up, I'll take two. I want a man who I don't claim I don't love, but he will smack the out of anybody who talks about me in a disparaging way. Give me two of those, give me, matter of fact, give me three, because I need one on the weekends too.
Speaker 1:What is going on in the world of celebrity news? So let me tell you. So, ms Jada Pinkett Smith. She has a new book coming out. So this is why. This is why she is trending. Ain't nobody even talking about that book? No one even knows the name of said book. It could be called your mama. Nobody would know the name of this book because she is just talking about solaceousness, because she knows that you all will be clicking and reposting and following the nonsense.
Speaker 1:I don't understand it. I am just waiting to see how is she going to be in the news next week? Because not only she talking about how she and Will Smith have been divorced since 2016. Shea, tupac, tupac, he might as well be alive. He might as well be alive because the way Jada Pinkett Smith always has his name rolling across her lips and tongue, you would think that they just got here last night and the loving was just so good that she woke up in the morning and said let me tell you all about it. She talks about that man so much, so now she is also saying that they were never involved romantically. But that's not what she was saying. For decades and centuries she's never said that. She made it seem as if she was Tupac's first and only love, the one that got away. Well, now she's saying they were never romantically involved, they were only friends, and if they had gotten married, that he probably would have divorced her the next day. I just can't keep up. But whoever her publicist is, if you are looking for a new client, how about your girl? I am right here, okay.
Speaker 1:So another thing that happened in celebrity news. So you know Shannon Sharp. He has a very, very popular podcast. So recently he had Chad Ocho Sinko, I believe that's his name, on his podcast and they were going back and forth. So Shannon Sharp was saying that a woman can't pass gas or do number two, boo boo, that she can't do that in front of him because he would just let her go. So I really had to think about that, like, and even my daughter asked me this question Mom, have you ever passed gas or did number two in front of a man? And I'm embarrassed to say all of the above. All of the above.
Speaker 1:Now, it wasn't on purpose, but it was after a very intimate tonight. Just picture this. Okay, it was late at night and the stars were just as twinkling, and we came in from dinner and I was spending night. Now, mind you, I've had dinner, champagne, a few other cocktails, and we got intimate and my stomach said no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm not going to hit that high note. But my stomach said no, and there was no way that I was going to sleep overnight and possibly fall asleep, and then, you know, I'm just singing a whole other song in my sleep and waking up, and he looking at me like so we didn't want to do that, so I said you know what? I have to use your bathroom and I need a candle.
Speaker 1:Now, mind you, I did this when I was in my 40s, you know, because the older you get, the more unabashed you are, the more unfiltered you become. But I had to, I absolutely had to. I think I understood it, though, and I'm not with him, and he's still ringing my phone. Okay, so that tells you something, but let me, I would not purposely like pass gas in front of a guy. I just would not.
Speaker 1:I think that because I'm a lady. I'm a lady and I just think it is so un-lady like to just be like yeah, so you want to go like who was doing that? A woman with no home training, that's who. So, ladies, do not pass gas or do number two in front of a man. Now, exception to the rule. Now, if I'm with you for years and we know each other, then we know each other.
Speaker 1:Okay, I'm passing gas, I'm using a bathroom, number two and it's going to be okay. So you know, it's a shame that you have to put you know the representative when you're dating until he gets to know you. That's when that bonnet comes on. You passing gas, you doing number two. So, ladies, don't pass gas or do number two in front of your man. Wait a little bit until you know you get that ring, or until you know he ain't going anywhere, because doing those things it doesn't define who you are, but in the beginning it does. He's looking at you like you a bad she-chow, so don't do it, okay. So that is all that I have for trending celebrity news. So why don't we do this?
Speaker 1:We're going to take a commercial break and we'll be right back with the playwright, jocelyn Bio and the director, whitney White, of Broadway's all new play, jaja's African Hair Brady. Make sure you subscribe and we'll be right back. We're talking about completing the Chinas. You're crying inside. You're crying inside Chai. You're crying inside. On the outside, you like it? It's too much. Don't turn the camera off. Okay?
Speaker 1:So, just like I promised you, we have two amazing guests, and what these guests don't know is that this is Sonia Onair's 100th episode. So, without any further ado, I have the playwright and the director of Zha Zha's African Hair Braiding, jocelyn Biyo and Whitney White. How are you two young ladies? We're good. Thank you for calling us young ladies. We're always going to be young ladies. I don't care how old we are. We are young ladies. So let's just get right on into it. Like I said, this is Sonia Onair's 100th episode and having you two on was so intentional.
Speaker 1:I ran into I believe it was Whitney I'm not sure if it was you two, jocelyn when I was on my way to the theater. Yes, I think it was both of us. We were coming from getting dinner and we were on our way to the theater and you had like some beautiful braids, right, whitney? I can't remember now. Yeah, they'll be back next week, but let me just tell you about the experience.
Speaker 1:I was having a conversation with my daughter, who was 28, about the importance of going to see this play because it is for us and by us, so just intergenerational. So my first question is for you, jocelyn why write Jaja's African Hair Braiding? Why, well, I always write stories that center black women, so I knew I was always going to any play I write is going to be about that. But I really wanted to write a love letter to my hair braiding ladies. I wanted to write a love letter to Harlem, who I feel like. These ladies are the heart of Harlem.
Speaker 1:You can't walk up and down 125th Street without running into a hair braiding shop or like an African hair braiding lady trying to like so let's see you to get braids. You have braids in your own head and they would still ask if you are braids. And they're lifesavers, they're aunties, they're mothers, they're therapists. They've been everything to me at any single moment in my life, and I grew up in New York and uptown in Washington Heights, but I went to the hair braiding salons in Harlem and it kind of dawned on me some years ago. I was like this is like a ripe place to have a play.
Speaker 1:I didn't know what the play would be about. I didn't know you know where the story would go, but I knew I wanted to center them, and so rarely do we have opportunities like that to write stories that center us in that kind of way. And I certainly did not anticipate that Broadway would come calling when the play was done and I was ready to share it. I did not think that an opportunity to do it on Broadway would happen. So when it did, it just felt like. It just felt like that was God's promise on the play and I was really happy that I didn't fall back on that, and we are happy that you didn't fall back on that either.
Speaker 1:And, as you mentioned, it is a love letter. Let me tell you my hair is a whole other person. She has its own social security number, birth certificate, everything, and I too get my hair braided on 125th Street. So this was so new and I know when you talk about black hair it is such a nuanced conversation that is so triggering and traumatizing for so many women of color. So my next question is for you, whitney. So Jocelyn wrote the play, but you kind of orchestrated the rhythm of the play. So when you were handed the script, how did you decide to bring the imagery to life?
Speaker 2:Well, similarly to Jocelyn, I've also spent the bulk of my young adult childhood, young adult and adult life in a braiding salon. It was in Chicago, but when I read it I immediately saw things I recognized and women I knew and I knew that the play needed to feel real. It's a real story about real people and therefore the initiative of it on stage had to have a sense of realism to it. And also I had been a fan of Jocelyn's work and I've seen her plays and I think I had been to the school of Jocelyn BO a little bit and was like, okay, I can get in here on this rhythm, but you know, when you're in the salon things move at a mile a minute. Those women don't wait for you. You might be in there all day but you'll see a whole lifetime go by Lovers, peddlers, friends, fights, squabbles and money made. So I knew I just wanted to put something on stage that reflected the reality that I knew to be true, you know.
Speaker 1:Yes, and even before the stage curtains went up, there was a story within itself with the images of the corn rolls, the twists, and I looked at my door and I said, okay, we had that hair. It's just had a conversation before the play even started. So thank you to the both of you for starting a conversation even before the words of the play even began. So the next question is for you, jocelyn. I know that Taraji P Henson is a producer for Jaja's African Hair Braiding. How did that come about? Well, that's really Whitney, actually. Well, I'll say a couple of things happened.
Speaker 1:Whitney and I separately worked with Taraji's production company on different projects over the course of the last couple of years. We both had separately developed a relationship with Taraji and her company because she has this production company where she produces film and TV projects as well. She had not ventured into theater and then, over the course of the pandemic, she decided to start her hair care line and we all came to learn that, prior to her having success as an actress, she actually was going to be a cosmetologist and go and do hair, and it just happened that her acting career took off. So she always was going to get back to doing hair and hair care products and all of that. So she started her hair care line.
Speaker 1:So when the opportunity came up, when we were looking for other producers to come on board for Jaja's, whitney was like well, what about Taraji? She has this hair care line. She's really passionate about it. I think she really loves your work and I think if we send her the play, maybe she'll at least she can say no, but potentially she might be interested in coming on board, and this being her first venture into producing for theater, and so we sent her the play. I feel like that guest came back so fast. I don't, I'm trying to.
Speaker 2:Miraculously fast. It was so great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was miraculously fast and she was really kind to just kind of jump on board and then, because of the hair care line as well, it just felt like a really easy yes. So that's how she got involved. It was kind of like organic in a weird way, but that speaks volumes to I feel like we tried to create it. Go ahead, I'm sorry, whitney. Okay.
Speaker 2:But that's so. They felt like we had a lot of oh, there's a delay on my end. I apologize. Go ahead, whitney, go ahead. I was saying we had a lot of dreams and thankfully the bulk of them came true and that's like a testament to Jocelyn's writing. It was such a powerful calling card and I just thought to myself, like Taraji, think of how many iconic roles she has had. She's such a beacon in the community for fabulosity, for excellent acting, and it just felt like the right fit. So we were very lucky to be in partnership with her and so many other wonderful black female business owners and artists.
Speaker 1:I like that. But let me tell you also how I knew that this was going to be a spectacular play, because it isn't led by Taraji P Henson is the producer. It is just Jajah's African hair breeding. Oftentimes people want to tie in the celebrity factor to generate the audience. I'm glad that you just led with the work, but that was no small feat. Every time I go to Broadway and I've been going to Broadway play since I was in elementary school I don't see enough plays about us and for us. Talk about that. Talk about having a play around black hair for people of color on Broadway. Yeah, I mean already you've said so many things that would like put an X all over it for most producers and most theater companies who are looking to have a quote unquote successful play in their Broadway house. What I would like to like big up is both me and Whitney's like producer acumen.
Speaker 1:We have a real understanding of this business, as not just like playwright and director, we're both performers as well. We have an understanding of how to cultivate an audience. We have an understanding of kind of the old things that they have done. Typically to market a show they just send out like an email blast. They send out like a flyer in the mail or something like that. Perhaps they might be like a one interview here or there in a publication that not many people read or at least not many of our audience members, the people that we would want to come see our shows read and then they kind of just like let it go.
Speaker 1:We were really from jump like early on we're very forceful is not quite the word but we were pretty adamant that like we had to do things differently with this show. This is a different kind of show and we knew that we could get the right audience to come see the show if we did things in a different way and did it in a smarter way. And that was the first thing that it started with was actually the advertisement for it, the key art that you see, that black woman kind of looks like me right now, like black woman with the like giant, you know bun on her hair or whatever you know, just kind of looking up and like. We went through several different iterations of what that key art would look like. But we're like it has to be iconic imagery. We can't just like take a picture of the cast, slap on the title of the play and like hope that people will recognize someone in the cast. They may not, so we actually have to sell what the play is about. In that case, make an iconic imagery, you know, image that people would be apart, people's interests, and then, you know, of course, bringing on the right kind of producers who would earmark enough money for good advertisements. That thing is like all that girl with the bun is all over the subway, yes, all over social media. There's radio ads as a TV commercial going. We just, we just spread the wealth in terms of like where we were reaching and, of course, really targeting non-traditional theater audiences, like they would classify you somebody who's not like a normal theater goer, right, just because of like your age, demographic and that you're a black woman. We were like you're exactly who we want to come and see this show and all of that, I think, was really helpful. You know it's a testament to the theater, to MTC, that they also said yes to so many of our ideas as well. It wasn't like they were combative to it. They recognized what we knew, what we were educated in in terms of audience cultivation and development, and really came on board with many of our ideas, got it Well, the imagery definitely worked, because that's what drew me in was the woman on the cover with the hair, and I said, oh my God, this is not great for me and I don't often frequent Broadway plays because it's not a message for me.
Speaker 1:I want to attend events, now my daughter's 28, where we can have a conversation after we watch the edutainment. That's important for me and my culture. So, once again, thank you for creating a cross-generational conversation full of imagery. But what I did capture when we went to go see the play was some common themes. So these are the themes that I caught Undocumented immigrants, loving men, cultural expectations, black hair and black breeding salons and politics.
Speaker 1:So let's just talk about the cultural expectations first. Okay, because I work in education in an area that has a high African population and I hear high school students always telling me oh, I can't pursue that career because my African mother says my African mother and father says that's not a real job. So in the play, marie's mother well, marie wanted to be a writer, right, but the mother wants her to be a doctor. Yes, why did you decide to explore cultural expectations? Because once again, these are so taboo conversations in African, in African American households, like this podcasting radio space that I do as a 51 year old woman, my parents will still say that ain't a real job. Talk about that.
Speaker 1:The cultural expectations that you decided to include in your play. Well, I think that. Well, first of all, I'm first generation Ghani and both my parents are from Ghana, in West Africa, and so, like that was an expectation that I had as well. Like I was expected to kind of be a doctor, lawyer, school teacher, engineer or a government official or something like that, like going to politics or whatever. Those were kind of the only jobs that my parents saw as credible work and jobs that sustain you financially.
Speaker 1:And there's like a big thing when a lot of immigrants, especially I'll speak for myself black immigrants, come to this country there in search of an American dream and that comes. That's to me, I think, synonymous with financial stability. If you're doing anything that doesn't come with that automatic financial stability. Like art, like writing. In the play, our character, jha, jha's daughter Marie, she wants to be a writer, she wants to write romance novels and it's like really sweet and fun. But in what world does her mother deem that as work that will sustain her financially? And that's kind of the divide.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, as you said, you're in your 50s now, like you're doing really beautiful work. That is for the culture, and sometimes that doesn't necessarily mean that it's going to be financially stable it can, but it doesn't mean it will and there's a kind of fight between cultures. I think of coming and having a particular dream and that dream becoming a reality and being a first generation kid who actually dreams a big dream and wants and actually goes after that thing wholeheartedly, and that's just not a luxury or privilege that I think many Black immigrants who come here feel like they have. So I mean, god only knows how many lost artists we have in all of these incredible women, and I think that that's part of why I'm exploring that in some of the braiders' stories is because I don't know, I think there's a world. My mom would have been the most incredible entertainment manager, like she would have given Chris Jenner and Matthew Know like a run for the money I'd be beyond so many Gosh.
Speaker 2:that's amazing.
Speaker 1:Now I've actually known that that was something where she could put that kind of like tough, no holds barred business acumen that she has. If she could apply that to being an entertainment manager or an entertainment lawyer like she, would have been incredible. But she doesn't ever thought that that was a dream she could have, or even a financially stable job. So I don't know, whitney, you have a lot to add to this. You as well, whitney, because you are the place director and that is also a non-traditional job. And when I asked you both this question, speaking to your non-traditional jobs, it's because there's some small girl watching thinking that she can't pursue a career as a playwright or director. So, whitney, what about when you decided to become a director?
Speaker 2:Well, OK, first of all, I'm really happy to ask this and just second of all, again just blowing Jocelyn up more. It's why she's so amazing, because she's always writing about real things that speak to us now. But I think it's important for my homegirls and homeboys and home people out there that might be dreaming of a quote, unquote, non-traditional job for you to know that both Jocelyn and I I feel Jocelyn, if I may go so far is like we both got to where we are because people said no, like we started out as performers and singers and this and that and trying to do the thing until we were just like. You know what we need to make our own stories.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean, because playing the token friend or random kind of violent character or over-sexualized character you know, mammy Jezebel, all those tropes kind of wore off very quickly and so it was through a series of kind of doors closing that I was like I have to direct, and I think that's an important message, because I do have an undergrad degree in political science and then I got my master's in the arts and it's like sometimes for us we have to go through.
Speaker 2:It's not to sound cliche, but it's the path you have to chart out your own path sometimes, and sometimes those big nose or the big I remember, those big rolls I never got and those big doors closing are the best thing that will ever happen to you. Sometimes that person telling you actually I don't think you can do this or I don't have faith in you, it's the best thing that can happen to you Because you'll then find a way to make it happen for yourself. So I think that that's kind of advice is you just got to keep going and make it happen, you know.
Speaker 1:Yes, and there will be challenges, there will be obstacles, but for us, we do have to persist through this conversation of staying true to ourselves. There was another nuanced theme that I noticed in Jaja's African-herb rating politics, and that's something that people tend to shy away from. So the play is set during, I believe, the Trump era. Am I correct, or was it post-Trump? Yeah, 2019, so toward Vienna.
Speaker 1:The Trump era yeah, so I remember when I believe it was Marie came on stage finally, like she was a character and we knew her even before she appeared on stage, but she said something so prolific. She said when should we go back to Africa? Is it when, after we finish taking care of your kids?
Speaker 2:Watching your kids.
Speaker 1:That's when Jaja comes on stage. The role of Jaja yeah, that was so powerful and I looked around like, oh my gosh, is anybody? Is the white folks upset up in here? Who? Are you scared to touch such a sensitive topic, talking about Trump and how this world views African immigrants, only to be hair braiders and caretakers? Were you scared? I was not scared. I was not scared at all.
Speaker 1:I mean, even though the play is pre-COVID and in the midst of the Trump era, I think we've all been through a lot. Any single audience member who is walking into that space can acknowledge that whatever has happened to them their lives can understand that they're markedly drowned byELLEK from that summer in 2019 to this fall, when they're sitting in that Broadway theater. A lot has happened and I think they've all overcome a lot, so including fear. So I was not scared at all and I feel like there's a lot of power in saying something without saying something. So, like sure, we're talking about. She's really directly addressing Trump and the people who had a lot to say about immigration. However, there's no names mentioned. There's no whatever. So it's like you can interpret it however you would like, but it was important to share that because I think that, particularly during his presidency and his administration, there was only one face of immigration that they were kind of peddling out, and for all of the hair braiding ladies that I went to go see during that time, I had actually been working in and out of Los Angeles at one point, so I was getting my hair braided back in LA and New York wherever All of them were really in deep fear about what these policies were perpetuating and what kind of hatred it was inviting into their world, and I think they were the invisible immigrants in a lot of ways that people weren't really paying attention to and who were also being equally as affected by all of these policies as well. So there was no fear in that. I think we have to really, if there's, if anything, I would like for people who come to see the play, who maybe haven't thought about immigration in a nuanced way, that they leave having had an education on that, and perhaps that will even influence them right down to like who they're voting for in our next election.
Speaker 1:It's important to be able to humanize these people and these stories, because the moment you don't, they just become news articles, they just become things you swipe by on social media and they don't become fully formed. 360 human beings. And that's the power, sometimes, of art is that we can like, really humanize something that feels like a news item that can influence people all the way down to the voting booth. Got it? So I move this directly for you, whitney. So Jocelyn just mentioned, you know, just bringing things to life, and I just want to ask you specifically once again when you received the script, how did you bring to life the word so that we could see the story, even if we didn't want to hear the word? What was your thought process behind that? Because you did an amazing, amazing talk about that.
Speaker 2:Well, you know it's funny. I always I have always have a bone to pick when I go see theater and I'm like, wow, nothing in here sounds like real human beings. And so I guess, like whenever I'm reading a text, I'm like how can this sound as human as possible at the speed of thought, lived in, like it's happening just now for the first time? And I think number one, jocelyn, is a master on the page. It's like there's not a single period or colon or comma out of place and she's truly writing text for performance, which is a very specific thing. Not all plays actually play that well. Some read better, some play better, and Jocelyn's do both actually.
Speaker 2:So I found like when I was trying to make it come to life, if I just really worked with what she gave me, then it started to go, and I think a lot of this is casting to our ensemble of players are incredible, and Jocelyn and I went through an incredible casting process. We watched so many tapes. We we workshopped the play twice and it's like we really were looking for each woman to feel like an iconically different person. I wanted you to have a full snapshot of who this woman was, where she was coming from socioeconomically where she was at in terms of cultural specificity and like where she was coming from in the continental diaspora, and so that that was like a big process to cast both the braiders, the immigrant women and the three actors who play the four actors who play the Americans you know, because each kind of paragraph snapshot she gives you is very specific.
Speaker 2:So like how do you land that some characters only have one scene to be a whole person in a whole world? So I think shout out to our cast and our casting process was a big part of the directing vision, I think.
Speaker 1:Wow, well, you both did the damn thing. I don't have anything else to say about that. But not only just the character selection. Like I said, the hairstyles were characters in itself. Like I literally watched one character to say let me see how long it's going to take for them to braid that hair, like I know how long it took in the salon, I was like, oh my gosh, they did an amazing job. So what was the feedback from, let's say, the African community and also the black community? What was the feedback?
Speaker 2:Worst thing, that has been really positive. I mean, yeah, gargoyle with me, we're still getting it. We've been extended. We've been extended, which is a wonderful blessing. And I will say, you know, I love sneaking in the theater and being in the back, because I haven't seen that many of us in a theater in a long time, and I'm not talking about African-American people in the entertainment business.
Speaker 1:I mean.
Speaker 2:I overhear people brothers bringing their girls on dates, mechanics, sisters who do hear themselves. So I haven't been in a kind of room in a theater in a long time that drew so many people, so that to me feels like positive feedback.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, let me tell you something as I sat in the theater with my daughter. When we first got there it wasn't full and I was nervous and I said, oh my gosh, I need people to show up. But by the time those curtains lifted, there was not a single empty chair in the theater, and for that alone that was a successful moment for me, and I even asked myself. I said, I wonder if they come behind the stage and they kind of peek out to get the audience's reaction. So what was, let's say, the most entertaining audience reaction that you've ever heard or seen? Oh god, we've had many. I think every show has different reactions that are really funny. I mean, a lot of people react to the stage as if they're also in the shop, and so what I really love is that I wanted the whole theater to feel like they were either a customer in the shop or a fly on the wall, like they felt like they were part of the shop, and I feel like that has also invited that element of audience interaction too. There's so many people who you know when there's like a moment with like a character who has like a pretty tempestuous relationship with her husband, and so when he comes into the shop, you could feel the women in the audience are like girl, just get rid of him. Yes, it's kind of like, that's kind of fun Certainly the magic of the hair, I think, when people get their hair braided like. There's one girl who's really dead set about looking like Beyonce when she comes into the shop and so when the reveal of when her braids are done, people are really with her, like they're clapping and cheering with her. It's like like all of that stuff is really, really exciting. It's for the culture, for the Diaspora culture. There was a girl yesterday who tagged me on Instagram, who came to the show for a second time and the second time she brought her hair braiding lady with her. I just thought that was like the most incredible thing. And you saw the like hair braiding lady like dancing, like she was so thrilled to see herself represented on a Broadway stage and I yeah, it just moved me to tears. Yeah, well, let me tell you, I was seated by a couple who were on a date and I asked them afterwards I said what made you come on a date here? And she said I need him to understand what I go through every time I go to the salon and I'm gone all day. Or I come back with these amazing stories, or I come back with some products that I bought in the salon because somebody came for the door. So it is a play for every everyone.
Speaker 1:So, jocelyn, what's next for you? Oh, what is it? What's next? What is it next? I don't know, I'm just going to grab the limit right now. I'm truly thrilled to just get this play up and off and that the response has been really exciting. I'm also a member of the Writers Guild and SAG, so my one union is now longer on strike and my other union is still on strike.
Speaker 1:So I'm kind of in a mid space here. But right now it's all about Jaja's. It's all about continuing to push the play forward, get as many audiences as we can, even as many people have come already. I want to double that, triple that. How can we get any and everyone in there while we still are running and then explore the world some more? There's many people who have come to me just fully requesting that I make it a TV show, as if I have that power of myself alone to do it. So I'll think about that. And then family. Honestly, if I'm being real, sonia. I'm spending time with my family. I have a newborn that I had, thank you, just before we started this rehearsal process. So also just connecting with my little baby and doing all the things and kind of collecting all the memories for when he can figure it out and understands even where his nose is that I can explain to him all the things I was doing while he was like a little infant. So that's amazing. What about you, whitney? What's next?
Speaker 2:I mean, similarly to Jocelyn, I just feel like this play is so special and I just, you know, I think everyone in the world needs to see it in their own way, and I don't know, I'm just I'm very passionate about getting the word out there. I mean, you know, remember we were walking down the street and I came out, was like hello, ma'am, your brain is so good, I'm directing this beautiful woman's play. You know, I literally go up to people on the street begging them to come see our play, which has embarrassed Jocelyn many times. But I'm just excited to see, I can't help myself. I haven't felt this way about a play in a long time. So I'm just trying to stick with it and I'm excited to see where it goes because, you know, once again, jocelyn is, she's one of the best that we have and I think everybody needs to come and be in the shop with us.
Speaker 1:Yes. Well, just like you, whitney, no matter who I come across, I am incorporating that into my conversation. You have to go see Jaja's African hair braiding. Like I'm saying this about 50 times per day because that's how much I believe in this play you two. Look about. I know you're younger than me. You're like in your 30s. Yes, yes, I just I just turned 40. I love it because you know, like I said, I'm 51 years old and I'm looking not only looking in front of me, but looking at who's coming up next and I just want to make sure that there are enough responsible conversations about us, about our nuanced conversations that really need to be unpacked. I'm glad that you both had the audacity to bring Jaja's African hair braiding to the audience because, like I said, this is a conversation that we don't discuss. This is a conversation about 4C hair. That is a character of its own. So, thank you two ladies for being socially and civically responsible and for creating content for us and by us. I really appreciate you two.
Speaker 2:Thank you, Sonia.
Speaker 1:No, let me tell you something. After I met you two randomly on the street, I told my daughter I said look at God, you look like you don't know how much of a blessing it was to meet you before the play I was supporting anyway. So to run into you randomly on the street, it was nothing but God's blessing. So continue to be blessed, both of you, thank you. Thank you, Sonia. Thank you for being such a supporter of the show. It really that really meant a lot, like I was actually surprised when Whitney was like going to give you the flyover. Oh Lord, I'm like what is this? And the fact that it was it was a powerful moment for me when you said I'm already on my way there now with my daughter. It just I couldn't even have fathomed something like that growing up. So it was magical for us too. So thank you, no problem, and the marketing will continue.
Speaker 1:I just took her to. I was covering media for CultureCon and Jaja's African hair braiding was everywhere and I said y'all better go and see this play. So I wouldn't even be surprised if the play was extended and I wouldn't be surprised when you launch your next projects, because it is going to have as much and even more success as Jaja's African hair braiding. No matter where you both land, your steps have already been ordered and the sky is the limit beyond the sky. So, like I said, continued blessings and thank you so much for joining Sonia.
Speaker 2:Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1:So that's that. This is the end of the conversation. Continue. Blessings, you too. I'm just going to end this so that I can continue on with the show. Take care, okay, thank you, bye, bye-bye. There you have it.
Speaker 1:So we had. We had Jocelyn Bio and we had Whitney White. So Jocelyn is Jaja's African hair braiding playwright and Whitney White is the director. It's not just about putting words on a piece of paper, because how will it translate onto the stage, onto the big screen? This play translated very, very well on stage, when I tell you, even before the curtains lifted, the curtains were images of African or black women in different hair styles cornrows, twists, box braids and I love to, I loved how we were highlighted, showcased on this huge, huge stage.
Speaker 1:If you are a woman of color I don't know if you aren't having nuanced conversations about your hair Jaja's got to be slipped right with the edge control. You want to make sure that your wave pattern is patterning Child. Now even the FDA is about to ban all chemical perms which a lot of women of color use, but it has been so toxic on our hair for years and now they are understanding that it has been toxic on our hair and wanting to ban it, but what about all those women who are affected by it? When I first started podcasting and I told you at the onset of this show, I started podcasting when podcasting was considered taboo. It wasn't a real thing. And I remember I hired a celebrity publicist and she really told me, like, don't put your hair in braids, don't wear your natural hair. And it got to a point when I just said, girl, you fine, you no longer work yet. So I took her to the board room and I said no way. And I started to represent myself how I felt I wanted to represent myself.
Speaker 1:So I'm hoping that for all of you who has listened to and watched this conversation with Jocelyn BO and Whitney White, that you take a lot away from this conversation about standing in your truth, being unafraid to have those uncomfortable conversations, and also about exploring those nontraditional jobs, especially for this younger generation. You go to school and everyone is just like go to college, college, college, college, college. Become a doctor, become a lawyer. And I'm not saying that no to college, because you know I have a college degree, but I do know that college is in mint for every single one and we need to start exposing a lot more creative careers to the conversation. As a creative, you can have a lucrative life being a creative. So now that this digital space is kind of strengthening, and especially with podcasting and this whole AI social media, there are a lot of jobs that are opening up. So you would be crazy not to jump on it. Like I said, I jumped on podcasting. It's been over 10 years, it's been like maybe 12 or 13 years.
Speaker 1:So please, please, please, get a ticket to go purchase Jaja's African Hair Breeding. I'm telling you it is a play that will have you having conversations with your friends, your boyfriends, your lover, your cousin, your auntie, your uncles. It is a conversation for the young, the middle aged, the more seasoned individuals, because who is not a black woman, a woman of color, who doesn't have conversation about her hair? I wait, whoo. Every single woman of color is having some conversation at some point in time about her hair. There was a huge episode that I did in celebration of Juneteenth and I had the author of Black Hair, tamika I believe her name is Wellington go back to that episode and we really unpacked the nuanced conversations about black hair. So I'm so happy that there are so many women of color deciding to address this nuanced conversation of black hair, because if you leave it to the online vitriol, jaja, we are nappy headed and breaking the fist comb. Let the online people tell you this.
Speaker 1:So, once again, please go check out Jaja's African Hair Braiding and, while you're at it, make sure that you hit the like button. If you're watching this on YouTube, sanya and her streams across every major streaming platform. Not only like and hit the notification button, make sure that you follow, make sure that you subscribe. You can also follow me on social media at Sanya on Air, that's on Instagram, that's on Ticket Attack, that's on my business Facebook page, that's on LinkedIn, it's on Thread, it's on Twitter, you name it. Sanya on Air is there? So what a way to have a 100th episode. We did it. So I just want to dedicate the closing of the show to my mother, deborah Hudson-Pain. May you Rest in Power. Well, that's all, folks. Thank you so much for tuning in to another amazing edition of Sanya on Air. Smooch yourself, take care.