Sanya On-Air
Sanya On-Air hosts intentional conversations with celebrities and influencers unpacking their celebrity pivotal moments while simultaneously sharing tools/resources on how to provide pipelines to access for marginalized communities.
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Sanya On-Air
'A Different World,' actress Dawnn Lewis Talks the Transformative Power of Representation
What if one television show could shape the educational aspirations of an entire generation? Join us as we explore this fascinating possibility with the brilliant Dr. Dawnn Lewis, best known for her role as Julissa Vincent on "A Different World." Dubbed a "culture texturizer," Dr. Lewis shares her journey of enriching our cultural landscape. We discuss her achievements, the inspiration she has provided across generations, and her continued impact on today's society.
Take a nostalgic trip through Brooklyn and beyond as Dr. Lewis recounts her early years growing up with a single mother who instilled a passion for art and performance. From local stages to national fame, her story is one of resilience, determination, and the transformative power of representation. Reflecting on shared experiences at Talent Unlimited High School in NYC and the University of Miami, we discuss the challenges of navigating college life and confronting racism, while pioneering new opportunities for students of color.
Celebrate the enduring legacy of "A Different World" with us, as Dr. Lewis recounts the behind-the-scenes stories of writing its iconic theme song and transitioning to "Hangin' with Mr. Cooper." Discover her ongoing commitment to empowering underserved youth through her A New Day Foundation, and the importance of joy and celebration in our lives. Join us for a heartfelt, inspiring, and joyous conversation that honors the contributions of a true cultural icon.
This is not the only when I was coming up we had to go outside the city. We had to go travel, go out of town, be down doors, like this was the first time Bill was ever gone on the set and he said here comes the token dirt boy. And out of my mouth I said F you Fans are asking for a positive women and you know, with family and business, it's like you know that's what we bring to the show and yet still it's like oh, she's boring.
Dawnn Lewis:It's my real story. This is really who I am.
Sanya:I made, I build myself off a dollar dream without a man's help, without a basketball player, or a dream without a man's help, without a basketball player.
Dawnn Lewis:Particularly the patriarchal boxes that white, cisgender males have defined for us should be how we define ourselves.
Sanya:That's what they were saying on the street. I didn't say it. That's what they were saying on the street, the streets, the avenues and the boulevard. Hey, hey, hey. You're now tuned into another amazing edition of Sonya on Air.
Sanya:I'm your host, sonya Hudson-Pete, and I know I've been gone for a minute. I had to get my life together because you know how life just be lifin' Child. So you know what I'm going to do. I'm going to give myself a round of applause for pulling through, won't it do it? And it'll do it for you too. So hit the round of applause for me. While I let it marinate, I will tell you something. Do not wait for anyone to acknowledge all of the storms that you have navigated through and you have a smile on your face to say God pushed me through, won't it do it? So let's give the round of applause again. I love having fun, love having fun. But before we get to today's guest, I need you to do me a quick favor. It costs free 99, nothing out of your pocketbook. Okay, All I need you to do is subscribe Sonya On Air streams across every major streaming platform.
Sanya:Did I say every major streaming platform. Yes, every major streaming platform. So make sure that you subscribe. And if you're watching this on YouTube, not only subscribe, but make sure you hit the notification bell. That way, every time I upload an all new Sonya On Air celebrity interview, unpacking their pivotal moments and milestones, you'll be the first ones to know.
Sanya:Now on to today's guest. Let me tell you something. I'm humbled and I am honored when I tell you about today's guest. I came up with a new term as I was researching her and just trying to figure out how to engage in this conversation. She's accomplished. So so me tell you what that means. What that means is this personality, this icon, this living legend. She has added layers. She has added the firmness, the thickness, the softness, the zest, the fierceness, the intellect, the power to culture, because she was one of the main characters on. I know my parents love me, stand behind me come what may. Yes, a different world. I have none other than Dawn Lewis who played Julissa Vincent. Come on, you know Julissa, you know Julissa Vincent.
Sanya:On A Different World, a show that really let the community know college is possible. College is possible. It is accessible. I know watching that show as a high school girl growing up in Brooklyn, new York. It reminded me and it confirmed that college was definitely possible. So it really inspired a generation. Well, it inspired my generation and that show is so powerful that it is relevant today. So I have Dawn Lewis. Matter of fact, let me rewind, she is Dr Dawn Lewis. The work that she has done is so amazing and we're going to unpack all of those layers because, like I mentioned, she is a culture texturizer. When we have this conversation, trust me, there's going to be so much information that you weren't even aware about, and this is the purpose of these conversations. On Sonya On Air.
Sanya:Once again, I want to unpack celebrity pivotal moments and their milestones. We watch so many of these celebrities on television, their milestones. We watch so many of these celebrities on television, on film, we listen to their music, we read their books, but we need to know how did you get there? How do you remain relevant? Share the secrets of your success so that our communities can expand and once again believe it is accessible. So we're going to bring Dr Dawn Lewis in in just a few moments, but, like I said, please make sure that you subscribe, make sure that you like and make sure that you reshare. So we're going to take a quick commercial break and I promise we'll be right back with Dr Dawn Lewis. Stay tuned.
Sanya:Let me tell you something Before I even start this conversation. Dr Dawn Lewis, I am so honored. I am so humbled no, no, I really am. Wait, that's my daughter calling me, because she knew I was about to have this conversation, because I love to talk to individuals that I don't not only poured into my life without even knowing it, but I was able to show my daughter you as an example, because to me, you are a culture texturizer. I came up with that term, yeah, yeah, I came up with that term just for you, came up with that term just for you, and I want to share with you why I'm calling you a culture texturizer. The culture is what it is, but what you have done and I don't know if you know that you've done this you've added layers, you've added shape, you've added firmness, softness, education, fierceness and beauty to the culture. So for that I call you a culture texturizer. Thank you for your presence.
Dawnn Lewis:My absolute pleasure. I'm so glad that you wanted to talk today. It's a pleasure to meet you. Come on Brooklyn.
Sanya:Yes, that was the first thing. I'm a Brooklyn girl, you're a Brooklyn girl. What part of Brooklyn did you?
Dawnn Lewis:grow up in Bed-Stuy, born and raised in Bed-Stuy, we moved six times, but always in Brooklyn, from Bed-Stuy to Park Slope, back to Bed-Stuy, to Crown Heights, up into Utica for about three months while we were waiting to move into our house, and we moved in Flatbush, about five, six blocks from Brooklyn College in Flatbush, about five, six blocks from Brooklyn College.
Sanya:Wow, Wow. So what type of Brooklyn girl were you or are you? I am the true epitome of the LL Cool J song Around the Way Girl. What type of Brooklyn girl are you?
Dawnn Lewis:I'm a kind of around the way. Girl, with a touch of European finesse. I've been where I've been you know and I'm exposed to what I've been exposed to. So at the heart of me is the let's just, can we just get to it? Person, and what you see is what you get person. But on the other hand, do you also learn how to play certain for lack of a better term games? Yeah, there are so many aspects of life that are games that people play but it's really about strategy.
Dawnn Lewis:It's really about how do you present. How do you present what you present, to whom and at what time, in order to achieve what it is you want to achieve. And that's never about being fake. It's about being genuine but using wisdom and discernment about when to do, what to do that you are trying to accomplish.
Sanya:So I love it. I love it, A true testament of a Brooklyn girl and what I want to remind people of, because we're both from Brooklyn the cultural landscape of Brooklyn. There are so many institutions in Brooklyn that introduced me to the arts. At what age were you introduced to the arts and how were you introduced to the arts?
Dawnn Lewis:I was introduced to the arts when I was very, very young and I got initially introduced through television. My family's from South America, so I'm the first female in my family to be born in the States. I have three brothers. Ultimately from the time you were eight, nine, raised by a single mom, so we stayed inside a lot. That's not. That's not true.
Dawnn Lewis:We were inside to be safe but wanted to be outside. Because when I was growing up, you wanted to be outside, you wanted to be playing in the street with with your friends, whether it was handballs, stick balls, skellies, whatever hot water low water, hot peas and butter, whatever it was, hopscotch, double dutch, whatever it was. So, my brothers, we had that sense of community. So we couldn't afford to go to the theater, really didn't afford to go to the movies much so it was about television.
Dawnn Lewis:So I got drawn to musical theater, musical movies on television, those old movies where I would learn all the dance numbers, all the songs. So I was singing by the time I was four, did my first concert at four. It sucked because I got on stage and was so afraid I forgot the words. I was amazing in rehearsal. You should have seen me in rehearsal, but when I got on stage in front of all the people, I froze. My first introduction to major theater was the Brooklyn Academy of Music.
Dawnn Lewis:My mom took me to see a dance recital that I later learned where her dear friend from where she worked at Brookdale had a daughter that was in that dance school. And I was like mom, I want to do this so badly Because everything I did I had to do with my brothers or I wasn't allowed to do it.
Dawnn Lewis:I had to stay in the house. So I was this real tomboy, me, tall for my age, in the middle of all these boys all the time. So my mother said I've got to get my daughter out from in the middle of all these boys. So she put me in dance class, singing at four, dancing at seven, acting at 11. That was the beginning for me. By the time I was 11 or 12, something like that is when they opened the Billie Holiday Theater over at Restless Duration yes, a half from my house. So I wanted to. I knew if I could be on the stage at the Billy. I had arrived, and now your advisory board.
Dawnn Lewis:The first show I auditioned for. I wrote my own monologue and they said how old are you, baby? It was the show called Young, gifted and Broke. I didn't get it, I was too young, but whatever I just I was determined, I was committed. So that's been my journey for most of my life. Started professionally performing, I was on the stage at the Brooklyn Academy of Music, that same stage that I was excited by and enticed by. I was on that stage by the time I was nine.
Dawnn Lewis:I was dancing point, jazz, ballet, tap, and haven't stopped since. So singer writer, lead singer in my own band, at 14, had my first record released, and I was 21. So that was how the rest of it came.
Sanya:TV just blew up first Wow, that's a similar story, you know just watching you on television. This is why I love to have these conversations, because when we watch people like you on television we feel as if we're far removed and there are no similarities. But in speaking to you just now, very, very similar expressed to my mom that I wanted to be involved in the arts. So she started me off in dance and acting classes in the fourth grade. My brother also went to restoration for acting classes and also the Paul Robeson Theater in Brooklyn. We went there. We went to performing arts high school. Where did you go? You went to PA. No, actually I went to Talent Unlimited. Talent Unlimited, Okay. Unlimited, okay. Yes, because we had a traveling troupe section that Performing Arts LaGuardia didn't have. So I wanted to tour for six months out of the year which Talent Unlimited had and LaGuardia didn't. So I chose that school.
Dawnn Lewis:That was where I went. I went to Music and Art when it was still up in Harlem, before it moved, before the buildings joined. Pa was on 46. Music and art was on 135th and convent, and they they were always one school but never had a building large enough to put everyone in. So they finally got the lease to the building that's in Lincoln Center, right across the street from Juilliard, so now all of the students are in one facility. But yeah, that was where I went to high school.
Sanya:So when you went to college, did you still major in the arts? I did.
Dawnn Lewis:I did when I was in high school. I'm still playing cello. I played cello for about seven years, singing opera, and I went to the University of Miami. I had applied to Oberlin Berkeley Cal Arts University of Hawaii. I just really wanted to get out of New York. But all those other conservatories, while they were so reputable, you weren't allowed to perform until you were a junior or senior. But I had been performing since I was a kid, so I didn't see the sense. The University of Miami had a very progressive vocal program where you could start working right away as a freshman. That was where I went. So I left New York. I was 16 when I graduated high school and started college and went as an applied voice major and learned that half the courses they wanted me to take were courses I had already had in high school. So I didn't see the need in taking those like sight singing and music theory et cetera. So I happened to buy a pencil that had an eraser and I was taught how to use it.
Dawnn Lewis:So I erased half of what they instructed me to take in dance classes, acting classes, all of those things I was already accustomed to doing. About one month into my freshman semester, I got called into the dean's office and got the speech. Young lady, I'm going to say this to you one time we were reluctant to admit you because of your age, but we will not stand for you not going to class. What are you? What are you talking about? Since you haven't been this class, this class or this class, I said, oh, I'm not in that class, I'm in this class, this class and this class. I said well, who told you to do that? I said, well, nobody told me what I'm in for school. I'm on college, work, study and student loans. I figure I'll take the classes I want to take Me and my wise 16-year-old self Right.
Sanya:Yeah, Brooklyn was showing up. That's what that was.
Dawnn Lewis:The Brooklyn came right out on top, and that's when they let me know that, unbeknownst to me, the School of Music and the School of Fine Arts have been in discussions for a couple of years about starting a new degree program for people like me with cross-dressing influence.
Dawnn Lewis:So they asked me if I would be willing to be the guinea pig for this new program. I said, well, what would I have to do? They said, well, basically what you're already doing, but we have to do this officially. So I had to do a performance jury for all the classes I was already in and acing for the entire faculty of the School of Music, the entire faculty of the School of Fine Arts. It was a 45-minute jury. I had to do a dramatic monologue, a comedic monologue. I had to choreograph a dance. I had to sing a jazz song, a Broadway song, two arias, one in Italian and the other one in any language of my choice. No pressure, right, no pressure. That was what I did. And when I was done, I was terrified, I was exhausted and they said okay, we can now officially begin this program. So I am the founder and first graduate of the musical theater degree program at the University of Miami.
Sanya:See, that's what I told you, just another evidence of why you are a culture texturizer. But that was a very pivotal moment in your college experience. But I was also reading that there was another pivotal moment in your college experience the first time that you were called the N-word. Talk about that, because combating racism this is something that still exists today and I know when I entered college it was also a experience for me as well. It really made me think about my hair texture, the color of my skin, the way that I showed up in rooms as a girl from Brooklyn who grew up in the projects. It really made me face who I was as a young girl, growing up into a Black woman, and it kind of minimized my self-confidence to a degree. So when you recall the N-word, talk about that. And how did you navigate through that experience?
Dawnn Lewis:That was a combination, because when I was in school in Miami, although it was an international university, it was a predominantly white student body. There was, there were a number of students of color, but we weren't considered part of necessarily the mainstream, whether it was the sororities or the fraternities, et cetera. When I was called the N-word, it actually wasn't on campus, I was shopping at the mall and this little girl, as innocent as she could be, said mommy, is that a black person, apparently had never seen one in the mall. And the mother, the mother, the mother said baby, we don't associate with those N-words.
Dawnn Lewis:And the little girl was like, oh, okay okay and moved on and I sat there shocked, not because, not because she thought of me that way, but because it had never been directed at me before Coming up in New York. You see, some of everybody. I went to public school. We had Asian kids, we had Italian kids, we had African kids, we had Haitian kids, we had white kids. We had some of everybody. Especially in an environment like music and art. You had some of everybody.
Dawnn Lewis:The whole common ground was our creativity, and I grew up in the 60s and 70s, so I knew what the civil rights movement was. I understood the disparity, and it's not like I didn't know racism existed. Of course I knew it existed, but that was the first time it had been directed at me. Yeah, so I received it for the ignorance that it was. I received it for that poor little girl, what she is being taught Right, 16, 17 years old. That was what I felt. I felt it's too late for her mom, but that poor little girl, what she is being taught, because one day she's going to grow up next to some person of color that she's really going to want to have as her best friend and not know how to approach it. She's going to miss out when I was in the? U some of the. When I got there we were doing shows like Camelot and Carousel and all those Oklahoma all those kinds of shows where I was relegated to be in the ensemble.
Dawnn Lewis:I said but I don't want, I want to audition for Guinevere. I want to audition for Julie and they said well, no, dawn, you're never going to be cast there because the theater at the time was not, it's still not, funded by the university. It's funded by the Friends of Theater, by subscriptions. So the paying donors decide what the curriculum will look like. But eventually they had to admit that some of the most talented students in the department were the students of color.
Sanya:Yeah, yeah.
Dawnn Lewis:My freshman year, myself and one of my professors, dr John Soliday. I will love him forever and appreciate him forever. We've made history at the? U when he cast me to play the lead role in no, no, nanette, I was the first person of color to play a traditionally white role at the University of Miami. The cover of the Miami Herald that said that summer said once you get over the fact that Dawn Lewis is Black, you realize she's really quite talented.
Dawnn Lewis:Go and see her in no, no, nanette. Now, mind you, by the time I graduated we were doing the Wiz, we were doing Equus, we were doing, you know, working, we were doing those kinds of shows that really supported the diversity that was in the program. So I'm really proud to have been a part of that growth. And now when you go to the? U they've got an amazing Black student government and union and the fraternities and the sororities are thriving on the campus and I'm just really glad that I was part of a foundational beginning for change and for awakening and for growth.
Dawnn Lewis:That was never my intention. I just wanted to maximize my opportunity. School was expensive.
Sanya:Yes.
Dawnn Lewis:School was expensive and that was where I chose to be. So it's like well, if I'm going to be here, I'm going to make it worth my being here and, gratefully, through the four years that I was there, the school grew and learned at least the department did and I guess it spread throughout the university. So I'm very very happy that that happened and proud to have been a part of it.
Sanya:Yeah, what doesn't break us only makes us stronger. So you had an amazing foundation. You were able to optimize on your opportunities. You know high school college. Able to optimize on your opportunities? You know high school college. Do you feel as if, once you graduated from college, it further prepared you for professional work as an actress and singer? Were you really prepared?
Dawnn Lewis:Absolutely, because, starting so young, you learn how to play bills, you learn how to get your hustle on, you learn how to set yourself apart, and I learned that I set myself apart by doing my best and being my best not necessarily being better than you because, you bring something special to the table.
Dawnn Lewis:That's something that my mom and my grandmother instilled in me. They were always very impressed upon me that I have what I have and I do what I do by the grace of God. But just know that you're not the only one. God is blessing. God is blessing everyone, so don't waste your energy or your time being jealous of someone else's blessings or outshine someone else's blessings. God is positioning us so that we can all shine, so that his kingdom and glory is revealed. Okay, so while you're trying to shine and be respected and be appreciated and be included, don't resent that in somebody else. We're all trying to do the same thing. So do what you do in order to walk successfully in your path and please don't try to do it at the expense of someone else, because it's only going to come around to bite you in the butt. Yes, the truth is, a lot of folks don't like you just because everybody else likes you.
Sanya:And in this space of social media. I'm so glad that you said that message, because people are looking at other people and wanting to be just like them, not understanding that you are an individual. You have your own gifts, you have your own talents, you are unique. You don't have to be like anyone else. So I'm glad that you mentioned that so that we can disrupt this narrative that's being created on social media, where everyone is trying to be the same individual. So life after college.
Sanya:Or pull other folks down yeah, yeah, stop, please, stop hard, stop. So you graduated from college. How soon thereafter did you land your first professional gig?
Dawnn Lewis:yeah, immediately immediately grateful. I immediately got home, became lead singer. Well, I was already lead singer in a band, but now some of my colleagues, classmates, were now in New York and so we were recording music. I was professionally singing demos. I had my own record out. I performed at the Apollo. I won the Apollo. I was a session singer, I was a jingle composer, so I was writing music not just for myself but for commercials and for other recording artists.
Dawnn Lewis:Yeah, I started working right away.
Dawnn Lewis:I started working right away doing shows off Broadway and in two years I had booked my first national Broadway tour. The Tap Dance Kid with our kid, 10 years old at the time, was Dulé Hill, who's now a grown man with his own family and just being so amazing at his craft with the legendary Harold Nicholas of the Nicholas Brothers Hinton Battle God Rest His Soul who just passed away, Ben Harney, the original Curtis in Dreamgirls on Broadway. The show was amazing and that led, indirectly but directly, to my then transferring to a different world, because the same people who cast that show also cast the Cosby show, so they cast me to be in it after begging them for about three months to let me audition, and the musical director was aware of my music background as a singer and songwriter, so he called me and asked if I'd be willing to work with him on the theme song for this new series. I said okay, sure. And they did not know that they had hired the same person to do two completely jobs on the same show until after they hired me.
Sanya:Wait, I want to make sure that people understand what you just said, because I don't want that to go over people's heads. You wrote the theme song to A Different World. I don't think that a lot of people knew that, but you know, even before we harp on that, I just want to kind of go back, because I had a full circle moment, because I saw myself as a high school girl, because I want you to know that when you were in the tap dance kit, I was a high school student sitting in the audience watching. Oh, wow, yes.
Sanya:So you know, having this conversation with you and individuals like you who really poured into me without even knowing it, fills me with such graciousness. It makes me kind of tear up because you know you didn't have to be here. You could have chosen any other platform, but you chose this one. So once again, you know, I want you to really understand the impact that your presence, the impact of your work, has had on so many people, so many generations my daughter's 29, and she knows who you are. So that speaks volumes to your persistence and your passion that you speak about because people are about to graduate from college and for you to have a testimony that after college, you were able to still land successfully. These are the stories that we need to hear about, because sometimes we think that rooms and spaces are not accessible, but when you speak about your journey, the honesty of it and being unapologetic in it, you know going to classes that you weren't even registered for in college.
Dawnn Lewis:I love the opportunity. No, I wasn't registered. That's just not where they told me to go. I went where I was told to go. I didn't go where they told me to go.
Sanya:So don't try this at home, people. Well, don't try it at home.
Dawnn Lewis:Don't say well, dawn Lewis said that.
Sanya:No, no, no, so wait a minute. Okay, so you wrote the theme song for A Different World. Was that at the same time that you were auditioning for the role of Julissa it?
Dawnn Lewis:was. It was Within the same seven days. I wrote the theme song and booked the spot. Like I said, I had bugged the casting directors for almost three months to let me audition. When I heard about the show, I was still on the road with the tap dance kid and they said no, we love what you're doing in the show. You just stay right where you, where you are, it's like. But okay, everybody can't be a freshman, somebody has to be a sophomore or something. So I got off the road, the tour ended. I was absolutely collecting unemployment checks, was down to my last unemployment check. When they called me back, this was on a Wednesday. They said are you still interested in auditioning? I said absolutely. Can you be here tomorrow? Absolutely.
Dawnn Lewis:Less than an hour later, the musical director, stu Gardner, called me and said are you available to write this song for me? And he told me what it was and what the concept was that the Lisa Bonet character, denise Huxtable, was going to be going off to college and she's got the support of her parents. And I was like, ok. He says well, all right, so fine, I'm going to send a messenger with a cassette with my thoughts for the music and let me see what you write over that and I'll see you in the studio Friday. I said, well, don't you want to meet first to see what I come up with? And he says no, if you're the same person that wrote the stuff that I heard, I think you can do what I need done. I'll see you Friday.
Dawnn Lewis:So sure enough, at that point I thought my friends were playing a joke on me, because that just doesn't happen. So I was casting directors back and said did you call me to come into Mar? They said yes, is there a problem? I said no, not, I can be there. So I immediately, god's honest truth. I immediately thought to myself okay, this is big, this is bigger than anything I've done before, meaning the theme song. I audition for stuff all the time.
Sanya:But as a writer.
Dawnn Lewis:I know what it is to copyright music. I know what it is to be mindful of the business of show. It's called show business for business twice as long as the word show, for a reason.
Dawnn Lewis:So you can get caught up in the show and get run over by the business, or you handle your business and the blessing and the grace and the gravy is the show and what it manifests. So I went into the yellow pages and started looking up lawyers and to see who I could get to represent me. And I remembered I had one of the courses I studied in school was music merchandising, and I had a book called this Business of Music. So I looked at the front of the book. It was written by two lawyers. I had an office in Manhattan. I caught 411. What's their number? I called them. I said do you by any chance have a free paralegal service, because I just graduated from college? But I need your help, but I can't afford you. They said well, can you come in tomorrow? Tell us what's going on. So after my audition to be in the show, I walked over to their office and told them what it was. They said we would be happy to represent you.
Dawnn Lewis:I said okay you missed the part where I said I can't afford you, I need to speak to your secretary or your godchild or somebody who knows a few things. And they said no, we're actually impressed that you didn't just go ahead and sign something, that you really want to do this the right way, so we will handle this free of charge. All we ask is that when you get the opportunity, you be willing to pay it forward. I had never heard that term before.
Sanya:But what?
Dawnn Lewis:I'm saying is, when you are in a position to be of service or help to someone else, you be willing to do that and that's all the pay that we need. Help to someone else, you be willing to do that and that's all the pay that we need. And until they passed away for the blessing that those royalties have been to me, they would never accept a dime. And when things got complicated with the theme song, because one of the things that they negotiated was that I would get on-screen credit, I would get paid 50-50.
Sanya:I would get on-screen credit.
Dawnn Lewis:I would get paid 50-50. And the director said well, mr Cosby gets, you know, 50% of everything that I do, so we'll have to split it three ways. And my attorney said no, mr Cosby can have 50% of your 50%, but Dawn Lewis wrote the lyrics, she wrote the music, I mean, she wrote the melody of the song. Technically the song is hers, but we get this, she will split it 50 50 and she will get screen credit. So they said, okay, yeah, but when the pilot aired my name was not on the screen. It just said Mr Gardner and Mr Cosby. So my lawyers had to get involved again and no charge to me to make sure that that was corrected immediately no charge to me to make sure that that was corrected immediately.
Sanya:Yeah, but did that cause any controversy for you as an actress? Because I'm sure it did. Like you're taking them to court and you know, suing over the song while you're acting.
Dawnn Lewis:We didn't go to court, we didn't end up having to sue, but it was like I got the response I got even when we were doing Hanging with Mr Cooper and they had us sing the opening theme song. It's like what do you mean? You want credit? You're in the show, what else do you want? It's like no, you hired me as a musician, as a composer, you didn't hire me. No, I'm sorry, you hired me as an actor, you didn't hire me as a musician, a composer or a singer. That's a completely separate reality. So, yes, and it's in my contract. So the attorney said you know what, you take whatever time you need, but until then you are in breach of contract and can't use the theme song until you fix it. So it went from this could take months to it was fixed the next week.
Sanya:Wow, where does that come from? Where does the audacity, the audacity, the being unapologetic, you've entered into spaces and rooms and you've kind of changed what they thought they could give you. Where does that come from?
Dawnn Lewis:I'm not entirely sure, but when you know you've got right on your side, when you know you're not fighting the uphill battle entirely by yourself, it makes a big difference. It makes a big difference and from my vantage point I just got there. So the thought of I don't want to make any waves, it's like, yeah, but I don't want to be taken advantage of either. And if I say yes to this, if this is how we're going to start, where is this going to go?
Dawnn Lewis:All you're going to do is just keep walking all over me. And who wants to do that? Who wants to do it? And I didn't, and it just. It put me in a frame of mind for the remainder of my career, even today. It's not necessarily the most popular position. Sometimes it gets you blackballed when you insist on being treated equitably, and that's not even with any extras, that's not even with any gravy. That's like come on now, y'all, y'all make billions and millions, millions and billions of dollars and you're going to begrudge me what I work for Seriously, while you pay someone else exponentially more for their participation, which isn't even as much as what I'm doing.
Dawnn Lewis:But I'm supposed to suck it up and just be grateful to have a job Come on.
Sanya:So that makes me think of another question when we talk about disparities within the industry. As an actress who is a woman of color, have you encountered other situations or experiences where there was a disparity in the way that you were treated just based upon the color of your skin, and how did you navigate around that?
Dawnn Lewis:You finish your contract and do what you can to get out. Yeah, so I've done a few of those jobs. I've done a few of those jobs. You know, a different world was a blessing and a real challenge. Being in that environment a real challenge.
Dawnn Lewis:Number two show on television, not number two black show, not no number two half hour show between us and the Cosby show. We went back and forth between number one and number two for almost six years straight. Our show. We were never nominated for an Emmy. We were never even invited to the Emmys to hand a trophy to somebody else, never had a commercial, never had a billboard, never had an hour-long special. The love that we are getting now as we are going around to different places almost 40 years later, is more than we ever saw, than when we were actually on television. We knew the show was a success because of the ratings, but we weren't treated like a success. We weren't paid like a success. There were several shows that weren't as highly rated as ours, that featured predominantly white casts, that were exponentially more than we were. We were basically at that time treated like we should just be happy to have a job. We can get some more y'all in here in a minute if you make too much, too much noise, yeah.
Sanya:Things always come right on time and you just got to trust in God's timing and not lean on your own understanding. So you've been saying we've been seeing it all on social media, all on television that the cast of A Different World is now getting the accolades and the awareness that they deserved back then. But there was a time where you didn't hear anything. Did you ever think that A Different World would now resurface to receive the attention today?
Dawnn Lewis:world would now resurface to receive the attention today. Well, I didn't. I wasn't anticipating it getting the attention that it's getting us, getting the reception that we're getting, but the mere fact that in 37 years there's not been one hour of one day, of one week, of one month, of one year, that that show has not been on television somewhere in the planet, and in several cases, multiple times a day, already speaks for itself. The fact that people still find it relevant, the fact that people still find it entertaining, the fact that I walked in, I was the keynote speaker at Harris Stone University a week ago for their commencement and I sat and took a picture in between two young lay ladies named Jalisa who were graduating. The influence that the show has made, the impact, the empowerment that the show continues to give no, that no longer surprises me, it's just a huge blessing.
Dawnn Lewis:It is amazingly humbling when I see people of all generations, of different nationalities, singing the words to the theme song like it's a personal anthem. They know every single word. I got to tell you how emotional that is. We were just on the View not that long ago and everyone in the audience was on their feet, didn't matter what color, what age, what gender, singing the words out, and I started crying. They had to bring me tissues on the set because I wrote my personal story at 16 years old, leaving Brooklyn, going across the country, with all I was empowered with were what? The words and wisdom and traditions and warnings that were deposited in me by my mom and my grandmother and my teachers and my brothers. That's all I had and it was okay. Go figure it out. And that was what I did and that was what I wrote.
Dawnn Lewis:I changed it slightly. You know to say that my parents loved me, but in my mind, my parents were my village. Whether it was my mom, my grandmother, you know it wasn't my biological dad and my mom, although you learn lessons from everyone of what to do and what not to do. Yeah, that was all I was armed with. So to hear people sing those words out. It does. I was armed with so to hear people sing those words out.
Dawnn Lewis:It does. It makes me emotional, but it doesn't change the realities of what happened back then, whether it was different world or hang with Mr Cooper or any other job where it was just a real challenge. Sometimes it starts from the top down, Sometimes it happens right from side by side by the people who are supposed to be your friends, colleagues. It can be very, very interesting. It's a very interesting industry, the entertainment industry, but we're still here and continue to be grateful.
Sanya:Good, good, yeah, you spoke about a different world airing all the time. When I get dressed in the morning, at seven o'clock in the morning, I'm watching A Different World on TV one. I'm watching A Different World every single morning, even now. I'm situated in a high school building and I had a few high school students linger around because they was like you are not about to talk to Dawn Lewis. I said yes, I am. They were like we don't believe you, so I had them come in just for the introduction and I had them leave. But everyone knows about this cultural phenomenon. The cast were amazing. Thank you. Were you able to develop strong relationships with the rest of your cast members on A Different World?
Dawnn Lewis:Yes, yeah, some of them stronger than others. Everyone has succeeded so well. Everyone is continuing to thrive, personally as well as professionally. I mean, as you can imagine, I'm closer to some than others. You know, back in the day, I'm not going to lie some of it was a challenge, because the goal of the producers, from the top down, was to divide and conquer, play us against each other. You know what I mean that kind of it was. It was very interesting and unnecessary, which was, for me, a big part of the reason why I wanted to change shows.
Sanya:That was why I left A Different World to go over to hang with Mr Cooper, um, and that ended up actually being, uh, a more difficult environment yeah, because hanging with Mr Cooper, like we didn't see you after season two, and for me, for me, it just seemed as if the show took a different direction. I don't think that the network was ready to have two Black women living with a Black male and it just be a platonic relationship and they wanted to kind of whitewash it and make it a more friendly show. Am I correct in assuming that?
Dawnn Lewis:No, no, it was the Black version of Three's Company. True, it was the Black version of Three's Company, so that wasn't the issue coming out of the mouths of people of color that we, as people of color, would spend countless hours every week telling them. This is not funny, this is demeaning, this is embarrassing, this is insulting. You're writing things that we don't want to have come out of our mouths, and I apparently was the most vocal person about that. And so, yeah, by the end of the first year, the show was one of the was the highest rated new series on any network during that first season. But it wasn't without work. It wasn't without challenge, challenges. We worked through every single script, every single week, and the show that was produced was funny.
Sanya:However, getting to that part was emotionally challenging, week after week after week, and yeah, yeah, yeah, I can believe it, because I do know that when we have people seated at the table who don't look like us, they do want to create this narrative that kind of portrays Black people in a way that isn't really true of who we truly are. So I'm glad that we have individuals like you navigating through the industry, speaking up and changing the way that the world should view us. So thank you for that. I do know that we have to close out this conversation, but I do have two things that I want to discuss.
Dawnn Lewis:Talk about your foundation, a New Day Foundation junior high school, high school, as I was growing up, to talk to my tea teachers, to thank them for their encouragement and pouring into me, and as well as to answer the questions of those students to say, well, what's junior high school like? Well, you know, this happens and that happens. What's high school like? Well, this happens, and that happens. What's college like? Well, this happens. So, as was my custom, when A Different World aired, I went back to my high school music and art and this time I walked into the lobby and all I heard was oh my God, it's Jaleesa. And I got in the lobby and I spent the rest of that day going from one class to the next, answering their questions about the business and how to participate and how to find yourself within it and not be completely overwhelmed or intimidated by it. And that's when a light went off for me that this wasn't just about me and what made me feel good, but that I actually had something to offer. So after that, subsequent years, I would fund workshops, masterclasses, et cetera, to impart information.
Dawnn Lewis:About eight years ago, I wanted to do some national programs, and so I went to the organizations and corporations that I've been supporting over the years and they said, dawn, we love you. We know this isn't a fly by night idea for you, because we've watched you in the community for more than three decades. But we can't just give you money. You have to be a nonprofit. So that was how I formed the A New Day Foundation, which is a play on my name, dawn A New Day as well.
Dawnn Lewis:As our vision is to be a new day of opportunity for young people, for underserved youth and communities. That where you were yesterday is not where you have to be today, nor will you end up tomorrow. We want to be your new day of opportunity. So that's what we do, and everything we do we do free of charge. So all of our fundraising, every single dollar that anyone donates to us, goes to providing the programs and the conferences and the materials, entrance fees, insurance all of that for our participants.
Dawnn Lewis:So all they have to do is register and commit to showing up.
Dawnn Lewis:We feed them, we introduce them to different cultural and career opportunities that they're not normally exposed to, everything from taking them camping or rodeo. I do a lot of voiceover animation work, where I've taken them into the studio and taught them how to produce and develop their own animation and video game projects. And we give out scholarships at our annual conference, which this year is June 15th on the USC campus. So if you go to the A New Day Foundation website, wwwanewdayfoundationnet, you'll see the flyer with the QR code. Registration is required again because we need a headcount to make sure we order enough meals, we order enough workshop supplies all of that that we have enough classroom space and you can register. And the conference focuses on financial literacy and technology and we give out anywhere from six to 12 scholarships of $2,000 each and a brand new laptop. And so our youth programs that go throughout the year or the annual conference, most of the kids, once they come to one of our opportunities or programs or experiences, they keep coming until they age out, until they can't anymore.
Dawnn Lewis:So the conference is for high school juniors and seniors and their parents we have workshops for the parents to get them informed as well as college freshmen and sophomores. So that four-year demographic preparing to go to college and having just arrived. Now what?
Sanya:I love it. I love it. You know, once again, people would not understand your philanthropic work. I, too, work in the education system as a high school administrator. I definitely want to stay connected with you to see how we could potentially bring this program to the students here in the Bronx, a community that is very, very marginalized and disenfranchised. But as an educator from Brooklyn, I'm committed to going into the different boroughs and making sure that children see us, because I'm a firm believer that children can't be what they do not see. So thank you for being in spaces, like I said, with the fortitude. You for being in spaces, like I said, with the fortitude, with the intellect, and because you are a culture texturizer, you are once again adding layers and shape and fierceness to a conversation that is so deserving in our spaces. What's next for you? What's going on?
Dawnn Lewis:More work with the foundation and the work with the foundation goes wherever I go. When I was there in New York doing Tina, the Tina Turner musical, I sponsored kids from the Renaissance school there in the Bronx Renaissance EMS to come and treated most of them to their very first Broadway show.
Dawnn Lewis:As well as we did programs and empowerment workshops while I was there with some Brooklyn schools. I went to the Billy and taught some acting classes during my days off while I was at the Billy. So I have created and developed a couple of new TV series projects. I was fortunate enough to sell one to a network a number of years ago, so I'm in the process of developing that now and getting that one sold a new one sold now and still doing my voiceover work.
Dawnn Lewis:I must do like about a dozen different shows now. I do Star Trek, lower Decks as Captain Carol Freeman. I'm Bernice Hibbert on the Simpsons. I am LaBarbera on Futurama. I'm Miss Patty on Apple and Onion. I'm Granny McStuffins on Doc McStuffins. I'm in Duncanville. I'm in. Mcstuffins on Doc McStuffins. I'm in Duncanville. I'm in.
Sanya:Yeah, I'm grateful oh my gosh, I love it. I love it. I love to see us show up and show out. Let me tell you for the past I would say six months I've been writing down lessons that I've learned in my 50s and I wanted to ask you about a lesson that you've learned, but doing my research, ask you about a lesson that you've learned, but doing my research, I came across a lesson that you learned I will never show up and not show up, and everything that you talked about really explains how you have been showing up in spaces.
Sanya:Dr Dawn Lewis, please keep showing up in these spaces, because we need you. We will applaud you, we will hold you up in moments where you don't feel your strongest. I guarantee you because I'm one of those people. Thank you, I wish you nothing but continued success. I pray over the trajectory of your life because we need you, sister, and I applaud the work that you have done and the work that you will continue to do. I say I say thank you so much, take care and continue blessings continue blessings to you too, thank you, thank you, thank you bye-bye, bye-bye.
Sanya:This is amazing. I mean bye-bye, oh, and that's you again, I'm trying to. So there you have it. Oh my gosh, another amazing edition of sonya on it. It was truly humbling. I almost teed up a few times. I'm a thug, I'm not supposed to cry. I was crying on the inside. I was crying inside. Ok, dr Dawn Lewis, I'm not going to call her Dawn Lewis. Dr Dawn Lewis.
Sanya:She worked hard for that doctorate degree in humanities, ok, do you? Did you not hear all of the amazing things that she has done, things that you weren't even aware of? So you know, a proverbial graduate of Hillman college, she still goes into schools imparting her wisdom to students. I'm in awe. I didn't know all of these things about her. Did you know that she wrote the theme song to a different world? Did you know that? I was going to ask her to you know just about more, about the relationships with her and the cast of a different world? But the conversation I love when conversations with my guests just take on a road and turn of its own. So make sure that you stay connected to Dawn Lois. I'm telling you, when we see people navigating in spaces and showing up and showing up and being unafraid well, maybe being afraid a little bit, but still being unapologetic, pushing through, being afraid and telling people no, that's not right, I won't do it this way, I'm going to do it that way. She was in college and although she was registered to take other classes, particular classes, she said I took those classes in high school. These are the classes I need and because of that, because of her vision, because of her vision, she created this conversation and they created a whole new lane for a major for her and other students coming after her.
Sanya:When I talk about trendsetters, this is what I'm talking about. You just can't wake up every single day breathing, sucking in air and not pouring in and not giving back. You know, I love when I speak to celebrities and it's not just about the glitz and the glamour. Darling, I'm starring on this new HBO series and I'm starring in this new Lionsgate film. Yeah, that's good girl, that's real good. But what I love to hear is how they are giving back to the community. So, a Brooklyn girl she has my heart because us Brooklyn girls, when I tell you God broke the mold when he created the Brooklyn queen, there's nothing like us. Nothing like us. Don't hate. Don't hate, because I know y'all gonna be in the comments like uh-uh, mm-hmm, boo, mm-hmm.
Sanya:So I'm gonna close out this conversation because I just need to let it marinate a little bit. I just need to let it marinate a little bit. I just need to let it marinate that I was in the presence of Dr Dawn Lewis and I'm really going to connect with her. Stay connected with Dr Dawn Lewis to see how I can get her program in additional high schools in the Bronx, manhattan, brooklyn, queens, because it is so, so necessary and needed. A lot of you probably didn't even know that I'm an educator. I've been in education for 25 years or something like that, and I'm committed. I'm committed to marginalized and disenfranchised communities because I do believe that children can't be what they do not see.
Sanya:So when you wake up every single day and you step out your front door, do something for someone else other than yourself. Okay, but I need you to do something for me right now. I need to make sure that you subscribe to Sonia on air. Okay, let's put that there. Make sure that you subscribe To Sanya On Air. See it streaming. You see it streaming on the bottom. Make sure that you subscribe to Sanya On Air. Make sure you like, make sure you share, make sure you leave a comment. This has been another Amazing edition of Sanya On Air. I'm just going to play the applause Song music right now. And we're just going to play the applause song music right now. And we're just going to dance our way out of this edition of Sonya on Air. Let's dance y'all, party it out, smooches. We're going to keep dancing. We're going to keep dancing. This is Sonya on Air.