A Deep Dive into Golf Performance with Donal Scott

Ever wonder why some golfers can bring their best game to the green under pressure while others falter? This episode aims to dissect that very question, promising to help you learn the mental, technical, and strategic aspects of golf that can transform your game and elevate your performance. We're thrilled to have performance coach Donal  Scott, who share his wealth of knowledge on golf, coaching, and performance.

We embark on a fascinating journey, charting the path from Donal’s early days as a golfer to his current role as a performance coach. We discuss the shift in golf and coaching over the years, the demanding PGA certification process, and Donal’s  valuable insights from his experiences coaching high-level amateurs and professionals. In a deep dive into the women's game, we uncover the significance of custom training and goal setting. Our guest coach, with over a decade of experience, shares the intricacies of coaching the women's team in Ireland, including developing individual player plans.

Finally, we delve into the crucial role data plays in golf performance, its role in decision-making during training, and tournament preparation. We shine a spotlight on acceptance, commitment in golf performance, and the challenge point framework for designing golf training. The importance of routines, practicing under pressure, and adapting your training to match the tournament environment are emphasized. We wrap up with a discussion on the courage required in golf, and a timely reminder to enjoy the process and embrace the challenges that come with it. We guarantee that this episode will be a boon to golfers of all skill levels, offering strategies, insights, and lessons to enhance your game.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:05

Okay, welcome back to the Irish and podcast. This week I'm joined by performance coach stone and Scott doing how are you? I'm good, thanks for having me, no problem, all right, before we get into nuts and bolts, doing what you kind of currently do and and all that kind of stuff. So, like, we've chatted a little bit about how you got there. So when did you get into the game of?

Speaker 2: 0:22

golf. I got into it probably quite late in normal standards. I got into it when I was about 12, I think. And then the usual thing, practice and obsessed with it and played. I played all the boys championships. And then I went to UCD to study sports management and after that I did my PGA in Evan's time got up Okay, I realized that I would make more money coaching the game than playing the game. So that's what led me down my my current path.

Speaker 1: 0:52

So the sports management stuff I suppose like is that kind of weird that PGA taught first came for you, like what? You kind of seen that avenue of it.

Speaker 2: 0:59

Yeah, like I guess I took a year out after leaving cert and like I've won older brother and he was doing computer applications in DCU, so I actually that was my number one choice. That was on the year I realized I don't like computers. What am I doing? I was literally doing one brother was doing so it was. Then I decided, okay, I love sport, specifically love golf, so let's go study something that's kind of related. And during the during that we had a coaching module and I loved it. That was the ball of stuff we did during that time, like the sports, science and coaching stuff. I couldn't get enough of it. So that's why I then said, right, okay, well, let's, let's do the PGA and try and make a career out of this if we can.

Speaker 1: 1:40

And you kind of touched on the boy's championship stuff there as well before you went to college and I suppose like there's massive changes in coaching and golf and everything else in the times, I suppose, since you were playing golf to eventually taking up the coaching. So I got what kind of point? Are you thinking about going into coaching or specializing in coaching?

Speaker 2: 1:57

I think pretty soon really like I was. I was never the best player in the world, but I was always like really interested in the theory behind everything, probably a bit too much to my own detriment, I would say always found myself even when I was a kid, like when I was about 17, 18, I remember helping the local under 16s pitch a pot team. So me and another friend of mine that were like pretty, pretty decent at the time would take them and do bring them out and train them and all that kind of stuff. And I loved it.

Speaker 2: 2:23

And it was probably during my time at UCD and when I started doing my PGA training I started like doing a lot of junior coaching and stuff. I realized like this is what I want to do. I had no interest in the retail business end of things or, you know, going into like golf and management or whatever. I was just always I suppose. Like I think for a lot of coaches, it was probably a little bit to understand my own lack of success initially and then it became really taken a lot of pleasure and and enjoying seeing the success of those that you work with, and that's kind of what led me down the coaching route.

Speaker 1: 3:02

I would say we go through college and you kind of come out and then like I suppose touching on the PGA stuff before we kind of get into the kind of what's going on for you know, but that training, so like you're actually the first person I've talked to that's kind of done, this will say in this format so like it is very intense, like in terms of like there's lots of avenues there, like isn't there.

Speaker 2: 3:17

Yeah, like I did my training with Gartham Shea and Evan Steng Offsub and yeah it was really intense. Like I used to do, I would have done like 30, 40, 50 hours a week in the shop and then outside of that then I would do another maybe like 15, 20 hours coaching and then try and play a little bit as well on top of that and you go over and back to the university of Birmingham to do your exams and you have like.

Speaker 2: 3:44

suppose you have club technology, you have retail, you have golf coaching, you have, you know, I suppose, golf club management as well, and I like to the director of golf program that you can go down, so you get. You get a really nice kind of broad, a broad sense of what the options are. And then for me, I think really early on I realized like the coaching piece was the one that that appealed to me the most.

Speaker 1: 4:12

Yeah. So I suppose coaching and like it's something as, like I said, it started apart, like it's kind of performance coaching is where you've ended up in, kind of like working with a lot of high level amateurs and pros as well, but you don't get there and meet like people are going to put their trust in you like initially. So early days are quoted like how did you find, I suppose, trying to learn on the go or on the job? You want to put it that way.

Speaker 2: 4:33

I think I was quite lucky where in Evan's time, initially way back, I started coaching which wasn't much of a junior program. We kind of built one up and I did an awful lot of junior coaching and I love that because, like a, the kids were really enthusiastic and be like kids get fast, quickly and a lot of the time maybe they get the despite advice as much as as a result of it. That was initially and I did loads of coaching and then any chance I got to coach I did it. I spoke coaching is no different than playing or any any other craft or skill is like. The more you do it, the better you get, because you know you learn through experience. And then, like I did a lot of the junior stuff that went really well.

Speaker 2: 5:20

And then an opportunity came up to work at the Darren Clark Goll School up in Northern Ireland. So I did that. And then a job came up as to become part of the Lenser ILGU coaching which was like the regional coach for the LNGU as it was then and Dave Kearney saw enough potential for me to give you that role. And then from there then that's, I guess, like still about how to to become in the women's coach, then after a certain number of years with the LNGU and maintaining that role, and when Gulf Ireland came together, and then yeah, and it just, I suppose it's like anything, it was by chance and I suppose lucky enough to get opportunities, but then being eager enough to put myself forward as well and those opportunities that would come up.

Speaker 1: 6:12

Yeah, I suppose, like opportunities have to come up again and again, like your work ethic has to kind of match the opportunities that are coming up or they don't come up. But like thinking back to, like, I suppose, a couple of years ago, like when you started with ILGU, like there's only particular moments in your career, you kind of say, okay, that's where I'm starting to get a handle on like the next, like going to the next caliber of player letter.

Speaker 2: 6:33

I don't. I don't think there's any moment I can remember. I can remember lots of times, like you know. Say, the first time an Irish international comes to you for help.

Speaker 2: 6:43

I think the big thing for me is probably when and then happened earlier. He was like when players who were competing at a level much higher than I ever competed at start coming to you for help, and those can be intimidating moments, obviously, but it's almost like as you go up levels in the game I think people really recognize that the most important things that the person in front of me is providing value, the value that they're providing has helped me perform better. So I think I had a few moments where I was definitely the first Irish international, the first professional, the first player on the added up on PGA, the first player on DP World. All those moments are kind of like they're exciting and you're nervous about getting to work with these players. But I think you just have to focus on the person in front of you and just doing work that you could be proud of and doing the best you can, and then put them in playing the game. Just let the results take care of itself.

Speaker 1: 7:42

Yeah, and results. I suppose results are kind of at that level it's all driven by, so people will come back as long as they're seeing some results. So with the performance team stuff. So how long are you with the women's team, though?

Speaker 2: 7:53

So, first event I did with the women's team was the 2014,. So we've come up in 10 years. So I did the home internationals in Aberdelevi in 2014. That was the first event and then, yeah, I've been with them ever since.

Speaker 1: 8:06

Yeah, and that's it like 10 years with that team, with any team in particular, like as massive. But I suppose it shows the kind of again the results that they are getting and you're getting with them.

Speaker 2: 8:14

So I suppose, for those that might know what is your role within the Irish camp, so I would be our women's team coach, so I helped design and develop the training that we do with our HP squad over the course of the year, and then I attend a certain number of events with them over the course of the year as well. So, like home, internationals, european teams, world Championships, and, yeah, I'm making sure that, as best we can, that each player has the support that they need to develop in line with the goals that they have.

Speaker 1: 8:47

Let's say one of the players on the squad comes in and says okay, I look down and I'm coming into the winter once and I want to set up a plan. So there are 500 in the world, let's say just as a random number, and I want to get to 300. Like, is that a case of you're looking at what they've done well last year and can potentially improve on, or how would the training kind of work out for them?

Speaker 2: 9:04

What we do is I guess golf is an individual sport, so you have to treat every interaction. Even though we have a squad of players. Each plan should be very specific to each player and individual to each player, because none of them are the same. So I think one of the first things that we try and do is we sit down and usually around this time of year and we look to the year ahead and we create, okay, what's the big vision for this year, what's the number one motivating factor and that could be getting on a certain team? It could be playing a certain way, it could be anything. And then we try and break it down and go well, okay, well, what are the associated outcomes with that? So let's say, like your example, I'm 500 in the world and I really want to get inside the top 250. Okay, well, what are the kind of outcomes that we would need to see over the course of the year to make that happen? Well, I'll probably need a few top fives. I might need to win one. We kind of will figure that out and then, underneath that, then we'll look at and go okay, well, what are the kind of measurables or metrics that we're looking at? Last year's data Okay, well, what are the kind of things that you'll need to achieve on average, round by round, to achieve those. So we'll look at okay, well, it could be maintaining some strengths or pushing them on a little bit, and then also identifying maybe a couple of weaknesses that we'd love to strengthen. And then, when we have that done, then the next piece then is looking at maybe the values and standards that they want to have.

Speaker 2: 10:31

So one of the things that's challenging, as in our sport, is, like it's very easy to live and die by the results, but the results fluctuate a lot over the years. So what we try and have is establish what are the values and standards by which, if I play this way, train this way, show up in this manner, I can live with the result no matter what happens, like I can accept whatever comes. We'll set that out and then, after that we've done is what we try and do is break the year into phases. So one of the most challenging with our sport is they might have 26 tournaments over the course of a year and then you look out, it's very difficult to peak 26 times over the course of a year, 100%.

Speaker 2: 11:11

What we try and do is break the year into phases. So for the ones in college in the States, let's say they might they have three natural phases every year, got the spring phase, which is from January to around May. They have their summer phase, which is from their back home playing an international tournament back home, and then they have their fall they call it over there the autumn phase, which is from when they go back to college until kind of November time, and then within each phase then we try and identify, okay, what are the key priorities of work that we need to do in each phase that will contribute to the bigger goal over the course of the year and then that allows them to stay focused on the day-to-day work, knowing that that work is feeding into a bigger plan that they're trying to achieve over the course of the year.

Speaker 1: 11:57

Let's say, one of these players comes to this year and it's their first year on the Irish teams. Would you be asking them to track certain stats for you to kind of come back to you at the end of the year with her?

Speaker 2: 12:08

Yeah, well, all the players in the States that are in college in the States, like it's mandatory pretty much in any vision one or high level college that you keep stats, so they'll all have their stats from college. Then, within Golf Ireland, we have a partnership with Upgame so they'll use that stat system for the home base players. So, yeah, we would definitely be looking to keep some level of data to be able to identify, just make better decisions in terms of, okay, on a week to week, month to month basis, what should training look like? And I think, as we know, data is getting bigger and bigger across the world and specifically in sports. So it would be unusual for and it's rare someone that's their choice, but it would be unusual for somebody to get to the national team level without having certain level of data compiled up to that point, like they're were introducing it all the time at the underage level.

Speaker 1: 13:04

Now, like Chris does a good job with the underage teams and getting them used to keeping stats round by round, yeah, and this was actually yeah, I guess was, when you think of it in that context, like the underage setup within Golf Ireland, within Ireland in general, in Golf as a whole, has become massive, like I was talking to someone recently about it, and the caliber of a 15 year old today versus a caliber of 15 year old 10, just even 10 years ago, let's call it. It's completely different in terms of, like, what's available to them and all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 2: 13:32

Yeah, I think like information in general, like even I think back I'm sure you're the same, gar, you think back to when we were younger. It was like you have to wait for a book to come out, or maybe get a set of videos or golf monthly and golf digest, to be like whipping it off the shelves to see what was in it, Whereas now, with social media and YouTube and you know, you could literally sit, we could sit here on our computers and watch like Tiger Woods lay out, you know his, how he practices, the way he trains, the way he prepares for tournaments. So they're just so much better informed than we were, yeah, and so I think, like everything that gets better over time. So just think they're, they're, they're, they have, they have professional processes way earlier in life and we would have seen in the past.

Speaker 1: 14:23

Yeah, as well as like, yeah, prep like you would. Just before he came on he was actually watching a video of Tiger doffing a chip and it's just funny, like you know, because obviously you don't see it a whole lot. It doesn't probably do it all on us either, but like social media is mad in terms of how like it, just the reaction to it, like it's like I actually post, kind of shared it myself and said, oh, he's human because it's tiger and he just stopped the chip, and but you get access to obviously all of the good stuff as well. So like you'll see everything that he does well in his game or Rory, and like there's hundreds of coaches breaking down swings every day on social media. So access has become massive in terms of prepping for stuff done.

Speaker 1: 14:57

And so let's take it like in a kind of two-perp question. So let's take the average weekend hacker like myself that has two kids downstairs. So like my warm-up on a Sunday morning is usually can I get out of the house without waking the kids in the Mrs and get to the first T? So if I can get out without waking the Mrs and the kids, I might get a couple of bottles in there If I wake the Mrs and kids there's probably no ball. But if I was to say it to you, like so for me prepping for one of my big club competitions that's called what would your kind of main go to be on that stuff?

Speaker 2: 15:27

And so I always try and work. I think like there's always a performance cycle. So the performance cycle is you have an intention, an execution and a reflection, and that can go from the like the micro scale of shot by shot to the macro scale of year by year, right down to say, for a whole, for a round, for a tournament. So the first thing I would say is, okay, well, you need to create a tier intention. So what is my intention for this event? I think one of the things that I've learned of the last one is good research on is like one of the mistakes I would have made.

Speaker 2: 16:00

I think a lot of people would have made a tendency when they would be creating this intention. They would just look at all the things that they wanted to go well, oh well, I want to do this, this and this. But I think to a lot of research to say you'll be nearly twice as likely to achieve your goals if you anticipate all the challenges you're going to face in achieving that goal. So I would say, okay, if you can find five minutes the night before or the morning off, sitting maybe just sitting in the car waiting for the windscreen to defrost and go, okay, what's my intention for today's round? So, let's say, if it's one of your big tournaments, let's say you say, well, my intention for today's round is to have this amount, have no doubles, no three puts and, to you know, beat my score on average.

Speaker 2: 16:46

That's what I'd love to do, yeah, okay, well, what challenges am I likely to face? And you might say, well, the biggest challenge I'm like to face is, if I'm going well, thinking about it too much, yeah, and if I'm going badly, chucking the round in, and then you go, okay, well, what is the top one or two strategies that I can implement to overcome those challenges, and that might be maybe a bit of breathing, like really focus on my routine. If I find my mind wandering, to kind of remind myself to come back in the present as quickly as possible and if I do those things as well as I can, that would give me the best chance of achieving my goal for the day. So that would be in terms of prepping is like what's my intention, what challenges am I likely to face and how will I overcome those challenges?

Speaker 1: 17:28

If I'm going well, how do I stop my mind wandering part? Let's kind of try and break that one down a little bit more if you can. I would definitely be one that's a pro on to that and I know a lot of people that would. That would be a question I would get asked a lot actually, when I'm at events and stuff is, what do I see different than players at the elite level Versus even myself, let's say are even just watching players, and I think something I find very interesting is watching the ones that don't crumble under pressure, so they're not thinking about the outcome, as you're talking about here as well. They're kind of taking off the shot as it comes along. So like what would your main kind of advice be to like the people on the high performance team or anybody else that's kind of like in the heat of battle?

Speaker 2: 18:04

The best strategy I find for dealing with that comes from acceptance and commitment therapy, which isn't like a psychological therapy that people use for everyday life, but it's really applicable to sport. So the first thing is accepting that at number one, you worry about what you care about. So those thoughts, all those thoughts you're having, are totally normal. There's no way of getting them. Like you said that these guys aren't thinking about the outcome I guarantee they are. They do a better job of letting go of those thoughts and refocusing on the task. All these thoughts come into them the same as everybody else. They're worried about chocking, they're worried about, like, duffing the shot in front of them. They're worried about making a mess, they're worried about what people think of me, they're worried about all those same things. But they do a better job of just letting those thoughts go and focusing on the thing they want to commit to. So the thing that I would say would be focus on acceptance and commitment. So, number one accept all, don't fight any thoughts that come in. Just accept them, notice them and then be really clear what you want to commit to.

Speaker 2: 19:03

So what that would look like in a practical example would be okay, like say for yourself. Let's say you're one under three, four D and you're on for like your best score ever, and the thought hits you like a ton of bricks. So if I could just par in here, happy days, like I'm going to shoot, like I'm going to get this thing around and under par, or if I could just pick up one more birdie and shoot some 70. Yeah, except in that. Okay, that's interesting. But what's important, well, what's important now is that I commit to my intention on this shot. Okay, well, let's just focus on doing that for the best of our ability and that, whatever come, that whatever is going to happen, happen. So it's like, let's say, acceptance, those two pieces working hand in hand. That's what I would recommend. That was a good dagger to my heart at 114.

Speaker 1: 19:50

I was 112 a couple of weeks ago. We might have seen my story or not. I was like 9 on the next haul. I snapped 2 in the OV and I think that is something that it's mad in terms of. I've become very interested in watching people today. Obviously, you kind of know what I do. I'm on the course of that, watching people. I've become very interested in actually watching them rather than kind of just seeing the scores or what's going on. So, like when I'm walking on the fairways and stuff, I talk to a lot of people and you can definitely see it. The guys that will deal with it like for me it's almost that they don't feel it, but, as you're saying, they obviously are but the guys that deal with it really well, I always find it very interesting, as well as I do with the guys that don't, in particular, and you're kind of watching to see like routine changes. So I suppose would you be a big advocate of routines?

Speaker 2: 20:35

I think routines are really important. I think what's actually what's really important, though, is to recognize you'll never perform better in competition than you do in training. So like nobody rises to the occasion, like if you're not performing certain skills in practice, they're not going to all of a sudden appear when you need the most. So I think what's routines and these things it's like is building them in in your practice and training and then just not trying to do them any better in tournament, but just trying to do them as you normally do. I think, like you know, I think that's a big one that I got I think it was from Joan Oliver, who is Cameron Smith's performance psychologist.

Speaker 2: 21:17

He always says, like you know, great performances are just ordinary performances on extraordinary days, if that makes sense. So it's like going out in your big tournaments and not trying to do anything better than normal, but just trying to do your ordinary stuff to the best of your ability. I'm just going to be my ordinary self, have faith and trust in that and know that that's going to be good enough If I do what I do for the best of my ability 100%.

Speaker 1: 21:43

So like, what would you recommend then, as, like, structuring training, to be under pressure, I suppose?

Speaker 2: 21:48

I think when it comes to training design, there's a best framework that I've seen, for it is called the challenge point framework, which is basically you've got three types of training training to learn, training to maintain or training to transfer. So training to maintain would be where you're trying to maintain skills that you already have, right. So like, let's say, for example, which is a part of your game that you're already good at, that would be going out training it. It's not going to take a huge amount of energy out of you, but you're just maintaining the skills that you already have, because it would be like the result matches your expectations. I expect to hit a fade that turns about this much through the air at this flight and it does exactly what you expect. So you're maintaining what you can already do. Training to learn would be where you're trying to learn a new skill or a new shot or a new. It could be a new psychological process, but certainly gap for training to learn has to be a gap between what you expect and what you get.

Speaker 2: 22:43

So that might be if it was a technical thing, okay, I feel like I'm doing this, but when I look at video, I'm not. I'm nowhere near it. So that gap creates a learning, because the gap you expected what you saw. So you learn every time that gap appears to learn. And then training to transfer would be where you're trying to take something that you can do in practice and transfer it to the performance environment.

Speaker 2: 23:08

So when you look at that, if it's on a graph, the x-axis, you've got how difficult the task is, and then on the y-axis you've got how specific the task is to the tournament environment. So for training to transfer, the difficulty should match the difficulty level that you see in practice or you see in tournaments, and the training environment should be specific to what you see in tournaments. So, for example, let's say if you're saying, well, I struggled to maintain, you know I struggled to keep a good round going, well, then in practice that should look like going out and you should be practicing that on the course. You should have a goal. Okay, I'm going to go out today and my goal is to shoot, let's say, level par for the last six.

Speaker 2: 23:55

So specific to the same level of difficulty that you want to have when you compete. And number two is very the environment replicates the same environment we're going to face in competition. So when you're looking at design and training, you should just get clear on okay, well, what skills do I want to maintain, what new skills do I want to learn and what pieces do I want to transfer to the tournament environment? List them out and then prioritize which ones to work on when. So let's say, for example, if it's the couple of days before a tournament, probably you would want to be learning too much new stuff.

Speaker 2: 24:31

It would be just like let's maintain what we already have and let's work in the kind of processes and routines that we want to transfer into the performance environment. If you've got a few weeks off before your next big event, you can probably put in a little bit more learning stuff, building up the skills that you want to build up that you want to have over the next one of events. So that would be my advice, would be okay. What am I looking to learn over the next while? What am I looking to maintain and what skills do I want to transfer that I can do in practice? That's what I'm not so good at in terms of the play and then designing practice based on that.

Speaker 1: 25:01

Okay, that makes sense, I suppose. Again, the thing with all this stuff don't. Realistically it's going to be very similar message in all brackets, in terms of whether you're a weekend hacker or you're at elite level. They're very similar, just maybe a bit more intensified as you go through the grades.

Speaker 2: 25:19

Yeah, look, I think developing skill is the same, no matter whether you're Just. The only thing that will change will be the task difficulty will change. For example, what you find challenging would be easy for one of the lads that you watch throughout the year, if that makes sense, yeah. But then the only thing that changes is the challenge point. So they just think they challenge themselves a little bit more what they're looking for themselves than you do, but the processes in learning and developing and getting better are exactly the same. The other challenge maybe would be just like the time available. Like you said, you've got two kids and you're trying to manage all that a job and this adventure that you have with providing the amateur golf info. So the big one for someone like yourself, I would say, would be prioritising. That's the hard thing when it comes to training. Design is like all the things you could practice. How do you choose which one or two or three things to focus on?

Speaker 1: 26:15

Yeah, 100% Time management for me is pretty good. It's kind of after my job anyway, but there's not a lot of it left for a lot of it. So we just kind of go what we have, we turn up sometimes on the course and you're just going to hit it and go up and see what happens from there. But one of the main questions I would get asked a lot, though, and then like, what's the difference let's say a first off, between a five handicap and a scratch handicap? And then what's the difference between a scratch handicap and someone like that can compete at a championship Like, from my limited knowledge, the five in the scratch it's generally just ability to score a lot at a time, like you would have a lot of like a lot of transferable, and it's kind of similar as you get down the bracket.

Speaker 2: 26:48

But I think yeah, I think that that's probably part of it. I think a large part of it too is you can be fairly specific about it is like there's a really good chance that as you move through those, like those handicap brackets like there are greens in regulation will just increase. Like greens in regulation score an average has probably the highest correlation through going to pick any one step. That's about it. So, like I think your five handicap is probably hitting, you know, double digit greens. Yeah, scratch, handicap is probably moving into double digits. And then you're the guys that compete at championships. They're able to hit, like you know, 12 to 30, 40, 15 greens across a variety of environments. So not only do they do it in their home course, they can. They can transfer that skill into multiple courses around the country and internationally. And that's I said that's, those are the grades that you can eat in a goes through the greens and reguines actually is an interesting one because it's a stash.

Speaker 1: 27:43

I suppose it's a fact that's been around for a long time and it's something that's so simple for everybody to record, literally as you're doing your score, just an extra while or whatever makes you feel comfortable, like if you hit the green or not, and like it is one of the biggest correlations. To score like as greens and regulation, like I think people it's almost not sexy enough anymore for people to kind of be interested in it and it's just kind of crazy. But it's definitely something that I think people should be looking more at is like we all want to hit it as far as we can, we all wanted to the ball, to look at a certain thing, but like if you're a five handicap or which I'm kind of in that bracket, let's say, and you can somehow like there's loads of ranges with trackman and things that I know is like learning dispersion, like that's the first key to like getting your handicap done.

Speaker 2: 28:23

Like isn't that definitely and I think, like remembering that, like you're, when you're choosing your target, you're targeting a shotgun, not a rifle, if that makes sense. So like when you hit this shot, imagine the range of dispersion hundreds of these shots would take and then place that dispersion in the most sensible place possible. And I think, I think that I think one of the biggest mistakes that your average, you know, say three, five, six handicap makes is like they play to their best shot too often instead of their average shot, if that makes sense.

Speaker 2: 28:54

And it's like they play the thought. They play the shot they think they should play versus the shot that they know they know they can play if that makes sense. And you know they might have a shot over like a soft shot over a bunker and just be like, well, I'm really good at this, like stock medium flay the chip shots, so I'm just going to hit that shot to 15 feet and just making the cut back, but instead a player to top the thing they should play, put it in the bunker and take a double. So it's having that, those kind of strategies and the self awareness to recognize that as well and go. Well, that's one of the challenges I'll face will be taking on shots that I shouldn't take on. How do I? How do I deal with?

Speaker 1: 29:31

that, yeah, like, and I think that's something I think across the broad the brackets really would definitely something in that kind of in that range, like I know myself, I've stood in the course and I've had a shot that requires a draw, let's say a 10 year draw around around an obstacle, and I may have done it once in a range, but I'm going to pull it off in the course and I'm going to hit the tree and I'm going to go be like. You know, I suppose understanding your capabilities is massive for anyone in that bracket or in any bracket really, but like the dispersion is a big thing I think that people don't think about. So, like for me, let's say, or for anyone that plays golf of 120, even from the middle of the fairway, yes, I should be aiming somewhere really relative to the pin, but if the pin is on the right hand side and my miss is to the right, I should probably never be aiming at the pin even from that straight shot link, yeah exactly.

Speaker 2: 30:12

And I think one of the great skills that everybody can look to develop is like playing each shot for what it is, not what it's for. So, for example, like, let's say it's a short par four but you don't hit great tee shot, you're in the woods. Sometimes you can think this is a birdie hole. You know, I need to get this in the green to have a chance of making three. I shouldn't be taking a bogey here. But, in essence, like, well, what is the shot? This is a shot where I'm 140 from the flag in the, I'm in the rough and in the trees and you know the most, the most sensible shot from here now is to give myself an approach shot from my favorite wedge range. That's like. That's what the shot is. It's the shot where I need to recover from.

Speaker 2: 30:49

And in the same way, to put it's like, if I have a 12 foot put, you know is recognized, well, what, what is it? Well, it's 12 feet, it's left to right. I want to start two cups out and glue them at a medium speed. It's not for par, it's not for birdie, it's not to get the 300. It's not to stop going, you know, stop going back to one over. If you can get into that space, work on it, I think that's. That's a great skill that anybody can develop.

Speaker 1: 31:12

No, 100%.

Speaker 1: 31:13

I think anyone listening like that's the kind of stuff that you need to be, you need to think about and I know myself I do as well but like, because it is like it is a game, like the amount of time that I've stood on a pair of five and I've said it, or someone in a group has said it, or I've heard something like oh, per five is the birdie hood.

Speaker 1: 31:28

Well, we haven't even got off the tee yet. No, we could do anything from here, and me personally, I could do absolutely anything off the tee, in particular to kind of stand going and like I've seen guys do it. We're like, and pretty later in rounds where they're going well and they want to make a birdie on one of the last pair of fives and by the time they come off it with a pair or potentially ball, you, let's say it completely derails around. From that point on, we're like, yes, there should be an outcome based on what you do, but not immediate, like in terms of the outcome should be the shot and then the overall kind of accumulation of score, let's call it. And getting into that frame of mind is what I'm taking, for what you're saying would make a lot more sense to a lot of people.

Speaker 2: 32:03

And if you look at the players that we admire most, right, all the guys on the very top of the game on the PGA Tour and DP World Tour, right, well, the LPGA Tour, well, what, what do they have? That helps with that? Every event they play, they have to have a carry. So every shot that they hit, they have to state their intention. So they'll say to the carry okay, I'm going to hit a grip six and it's going to start on the left side of the TV tower, I'm going to move it to the right side, so it should finish about 50 feet, 50 feet left of flying, maybe 30 feet past. Okay.

Speaker 2: 32:34

So the state they're emerging, they execute as best they can and then they have a reflection.

Speaker 2: 32:39

You might oh, geez, like I couldn't feel that much wind up there I got, I've got a bit more junked out of the rough than I expected, and then they move on and then they perform that cycle all over again. So they're having all these mini like intention, execution, reflection cycles and everything they do that they're getting better. You're like, like at an amateur level, you take a double, you're on to the next tee, you haven't picked the target, you've no idea the kind of shape you want the shot to take. Yeah, you've just human with yourself over what you did on the last hole and then you hit another bad shot and the compounds and compounds and points. So if you could, you know if one piece of advice would be that priority of intense pieces, like the next time you play our practice, like how many shots in a row can you have a clear intention for and Notice what are the kinds of things that prevents you from having that clear intent and trying to eradicate those things as much as possible.

Speaker 1: 33:35

And would you be very much a kind of a reflection course as well? Dawn so like, let's say, whether it be someone of whatever handicap or I want to deal with players, so like if they came to a lesson which you the following week or month, whenever it was, would you want to know what has happened in the positive and negative in the tournament, instead of Proceeded to visit with that?

Speaker 2: 33:56

Definitely like. It's loads of research, not just in golf but the cross sports is like Reflect, the ability to reflect and develop self-awareness and self-regulation is like one of the number one keys of developing expertise in ending. So I think you know, as a coach, especially at the upper level of the game, you know it's not so much my job is mainly just asking questions. They already know the answers, or the answers they need are already inside of them. Yeah, it's just my job to help ease those out. And so, yeah, like, with the ability to reflect, the ability to develop the learnings from, you know, successes and failures what, if those is, it allows you to keep that objectivity, if that makes sense.

Speaker 2: 34:38

Yeah, what you don't want to do is you don't want to get too low on your losses and too high in your successes.

Speaker 2: 34:44

You want to kind of stay somewhere in the middle where you could you could Succeed, but to still be stuff you can improve on.

Speaker 2: 34:52

You can fail, but there still could be stuff that you did well and you want to be able to pull those strands out as much as you can. And so like, yeah, the ability to reflect, the ability to like honestly look back on your performances, is a huge part getting better, getting better at anything, and that's again like that's what these top players that we see have. Yeah, they have caddies and people around them that help that process and help them. We say, like the ability to let go of the thoughts that you had is important, but the ability to let go of your results is equally as important. So by having somebody or some method of reflection whether it's writing in a journal or somebody that you pick up the phone and call, it allows you to let go of the past and then refocus on the future, out of you and your next Tournament, your next practice day, whatever the case may be, and you know Arbor or Tarry as much forward.

Speaker 1: 35:46

Yeah, I think there's definitely that, like in terms of and that's kind of what I was asking the question for Like I was kind of thinking it was some sort of answer like that Well, again, like I did a lot of levels people will, they'll get, they'll reflect immediately. So, like walking to the next to your angry, as you were kind of saying earlier, maybe not let it go for a couple of holes and then when you finish your own, you almost you don't forget it, but you don't think about it, that's it. The next time that reflects or comes back up is when you're gonna have that shot again, and then, subconsciously, I'm guessing, that's where these kind of continuous mistakes would happen much.

Speaker 2: 36:17

Yeah, I think, to the difference between reflecting and reacting. Yeah, so I think we will. We say, on the course is reactions? No, it's like I have a double and you react to the double. You get emotionally gonna say you get annoyed. You like grip it a little bit tighter in the next hole. You might even change your mechanics to avoid the shot that he had to let you down, and so that's that's reacting. Reflecting, okay, is a little bit more objective. It's like what happened, yeah, what caused that to happen? What could I have done differently? What would I do different the next time? Okay?

Speaker 1: 36:53

No, makes sense. And then I suppose, like we're talking the next bracket and I'm conscious of time, for you know as well but and so like the guys that are scratching, kind of improving. So like one thing you mentioned and it's something I've seen a lot of is like this transfer are not being able to transfer your game from. Like guys are kind of a championships or girls are talking about championships playing off a certain handicap because they can get around their own golf course relatively well, and then you go to Linge or Portlush or wherever and they're big golf courses would look last year and they not, that they get found out with their struggle. So like what would be like your biggest advice is your biggest advice in terms of learning to transfer your game is boss.

Speaker 2: 37:30

I think the biggest one is probably no one making, I think some people, some people have a transfer problem. People have a transfer problem of people who they do a good job of tracking their performance in practice or in In training and they can objectively see that my performance from the play tournaments is lower than my training performance. That's a transfer issue because they have the scales. They just can't seem to do it. In that context, I, some people, have a skill issue which is like they just, at the same skill level they have in practice, is the skill level that they have internally. Some people don't, I would have put it. They don't put themselves in those uncomfortable positions and training enough to find out whether they have a skill skill issue or a transfer issue.

Speaker 1: 38:17

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 38:17

I mean it's like that would be somebody who just kind of like it, beats balls. They don't really learn a lot of their practice. They don't do a lot of competitive practice. They don't. They don't test themselves, they haven't got clear goals that they're trying to hit in practice as well as in tournaments. So that would be the place that I would start is like if in any in anything that you want to transfer from practice to performance, you have to make practice look as close as possible to the performance. If that makes sense, yeah, so you have to. Maybe like for us it would mean you know you have to be on the golf course competing against others, keeping the score, having a clear target for what you're trying to achieve. They would be.

Speaker 2: 38:58

That would be the most realistic form of transfer. But if it's in the range, it can easily just be as well replicating certain shots that you feel uncomfortable with in the range and going through your routine and imagining the scenario. It's like there's a tenor made put out a thing recently there was a tiger talking about that and he was explaining, and he's like I always found small pockets of time in my practice to engage in visualizing and imagining these scenarios that I might have not leaving until I successfully completed them, and he said that that really helped them because then when he was in those environments he felt it wasn't that alien to him, wasn't that new, because he prepared for it. So the biggest piece of advice anybody who's looking to transfer is look at how you train and how you practice and how closely does that resemble the environment that you compete in? And if it doesn't resemble it like I'm hitting, just like the biggest one here and go off, is like I'm trying to build a technique that will hold up under pressure and like technique doesn't hold up under pressure.

Speaker 2: 39:58

People do so. It's like it's. It's it's developing. Okay, well, how can I, how can I design environments, scenarios? That puts me in the same situation as I do when I compete and then work there, reflect on it and develop the strategies and practice and then just try and be ordinary when you go compete. Don't try and do anything special, just do the stuff you've been doing the whole time in practice.

Speaker 1: 40:20

Yeah, and then I suppose for that, for that kind of bracket again, I suppose, like going to a championship where it would be an Ireland or abroad or anywhere, so like what would be the one non-negotiable, that you would have all your players doing a practice round, or is there any?

Speaker 2: 40:33

I definitely wouldn't try and have any non-negotiables that everybody has to do. I think everybody is different. They're perhaps should look different and be different, because they're all coming with different skills and challenges and stuff. I guess I guess the main thing that I would say would be that they have some kind of intent, like I said, yeah, that they have some kind of intention for what they want to do, some kind of sense of the challenges they might face and they have some sense of the strategies that they want to implement, overcome those challenges.

Speaker 2: 40:58

So I'm not going to apply for the preparation as well. Well, what's my intention? So, for example, let's say my intention is go to go play. I'm going to go play the South in the H, but predominantly for the last three, four weeks I've been playing, you know, scratch cups on my home course and park line courses. Okay, what's my intention in prep? Well, I really want to get used to using lower lofted clubs around the greens. I want to get used to how much the ball is releasing when it lands. I want to get used to flight and down the iron shots a bit more. I want to get used to having a more, you know, tame it down the ball a little bit lower on my driver and having more flight and shot on my

Speaker 2: 41:36

driver. So they would be my intentions. I would have those four things ticked off and I'm going to go down to practice and prep. I'd be lucky to try those shots out on the practice rounds and then I would be reflecting on which ones I feel they've been progress, on which ones I'm ready to take into the tournament itself, and if which ones I might need to go to the range that evening and spend a little bit more time on. So that would be like you know, but it would be different for everybody but, that would be the only non-negotiable, I would say.

Speaker 2: 42:00

It would be that you have some sense of an intention for what you're trying to do.

Speaker 1: 42:03

Yeah, 100%. And like I think, in this layman terms I'm kind of breaking some of it down. A lot of it is like what you're saying is like learning to feel what you're going to feel, learning this kind of see what you're going to see, and I suppose it's just getting yourself again when you can't be at that particular place get the reps in a different environment or in a different way, but in the same kind of vibe that you would be on the course, almost like no.

Speaker 2: 42:25

Yeah, and it's like, it's like, like, like your example, not to drag a pack up a Gingo like when you were one under three, 12, it's okay.

Speaker 1: 42:31

The nightmares are still there, don't they? They were not going to make them any worse.

Speaker 2: 42:34

Right. So, like when you were one under three, 12,. So the question I'm going to be like okay, when you're under par and you know, made or made into the back nine, what do you think is the number one challenge that you would face in that situation?

Speaker 1: 42:45

For me. So it's actually mad even that round we're talking about. But, like for me, it was the whole that I made a mess of. I absolutely hate the tee shot and the 13 tall. No, if you ask me, like if we're just chatting about it, I didn't walk the 13 tee thinking I'm one under par. I can't make a mess to the tee shot. I didn't consciously think that. Whether I was subconsciously or not, I don't know. So for me it was a case of there's a particular part of my course I don't like which would be 13, like 14, is this easy pair for even everyone's terms? I absolutely hate it. I don't need to teach our end up to once. So for me that's always going to be.

Speaker 2: 43:15

The challenge is like figuring out them to tee shots playing well or poorly and can you think of anything now like adapting strategies or anything that you could have done or you could do in the future to make those holes more playable for you? Yeah, I could hit less club.

Speaker 1: 43:30

off the tee I put the driver away. So like for me, driver is the weakest part of my game and on them two holes. The shape of the board holes don't suit the shot I hit, so like for me, that day, or any day probably, off the tee is probably hitting rescue, maybe treewood, depending on.

Speaker 2: 43:47

Perfect. So then that would be an example of the game. My intention is to get more comfortable in those tee shots, right. So that would be maybe entraining, really going into like making, like you're like working on a driver with those two holes in mind yeah, very specific and visualizing, but then actually playing to your strengths. So when you go out and play those cool, the next time is pretty round, excepting right, I'm just going to knock rescue down there.

Speaker 2: 44:11

Yeah, I'm going to put the grain of the game myself, a chance for par, but like you know what I mean, I'm going to take a big number out of play. Yeah, so copy the data. Even though it's a par five and people think you should hit driver, I'm going to be happy. Nothing rescue down there, maybe clipping another rescue up there, getting that on the green, not our car away. I haven't talked to dirty, but over time I'm going to like develop this in training so that over the longer term I'm able to stand up there and hit the shot shape that's required on that, yeah. So that would be an example. Even for you would be taking what you've learned from the past experience and then building a new intention or strategy around how to train and play, to be in a better position to deal with what you dealt with the last time.

Speaker 1: 44:50

Yeah, Well, it makes sense. I think one of the reasons why I don't do it enough is the 13,. The whole 13 is the longest hold on the course as a par four and the next is a par five. So like to take the driver out of my hand is always just definitely a mental struggle. They're kind of going, but I can just about get to 13 and two with two rescues. I have to hit two perfect ones as color and I can get the 14 entry and have a birdie, but like without it in drivers. That's not. That shouldn't be an issue. I think it's more of an ego thing than it is an issue with Lenton.

Speaker 2: 45:21

And that's one of the big things. Like even in the map, I did my own masters recently and it was on the performance strategies of professional developers, and one of the biggest challenges that young professionals face during the transition is comparisons and one of the biggest causes for them to struggle is looking around them, comparing what they do to others and then doing what other people are doing as opposed to doing what they do themselves. But doing that better and I think like that is you know, it's not only a challenge that you face every weekend, but like it happens at the tour level as well, and it's like to be successful, the more you can do, do you know you can do versus what you think you should do. Yeah, just be happy getting better at what you know you can do over time Not it's my opinion, but also kind of considering the research as well Like that's key to being successful in our sport.

Speaker 2: 46:06

Like is picking shots that picking the shots that you know you can play.

Speaker 1: 46:09

Yeah, this is the shots you think you should play, based on what other people expect of you 100%, because I actually remember like when I started on this and they kind of started getting popular it's one of the questions I got was like I would get off and still. Is that like he must be getting so much better at golf watching all these top amateurs play about like no, I'm actually probably getting worse because like I'm standing on a tee and whoever it may be and let's, let's talk under lads that can hit a tree, tree, 10 in the air, I'm going, I don't have that in the locker. But when you watch it for seven hours of a day and you go play golf the following day, I swing like a Kyle Brookshire and five foot odd and not exactly the tallest man or the biggest man. I try to swing like one of them. Doesn't work for me.

Speaker 1: 46:47

So again, like learning over time to kind of go okay, that was yesterday, Gary, don't worry about what happened there and try to play golf like you. Can I? You poke it out and kind of rely on your wage game kind of a scenario. But it is something you would see and I would see that championship level as well, that like guys would have certain club in their hand and somebody else would stand up and hit this perfect drive or this perfect shot and all of a sudden the tree and goes away and the driver comes up for the next player and nine times out of 10, it doesn't work out as good as they are. It doesn't work for them. So, like as an average amateur, like if you're looking in that kind of space, it's not going to work for you, it's not working for these guys and, as you're saying yourself, it doesn't really work at all as a leader.

Speaker 2: 47:24

That's commitment. It's like commitment to the game plan and like accepting, accepting, like accepting that I have certain limitations, then committing to the stuff that I do. Well, and having the courage takes more courage. As you said, it takes more courage to like like not to rescue down there, not something up there, wedges close to make birdie that way. Yeah, it does. It lashed the driver because that's what's expected of you, and hit it in the trees and then come out and you take seven and you kick yourself and stuff like that. But you know, it takes more courage to actually hit hit less club, because that's what you believe in Than it does to do what everybody else is doing.

Speaker 1: 47:59

You know 100%. I think that's. That's a very good nugget and I think the only we leave it on that point. I think there's enough care for people to work on. And so visualise, practice your intentions and just kind of get very comfortable. Get as comfortable as you can with being uncomfortable at things as well.

Speaker 2: 48:16

Definitely definitely enjoy the process as well. Yeah, Thank you.

Speaker 1: 48:23

Don, thank you very much for your time.

Speaker 2: 48:24

Cheers guys, thanks Mo.