Every golfer knows that the journey from the first swing to the greens is never a straight shot. That's precisely what Caolan Rafferty, our guest this week, proves as he recounts the swings and roundabouts of his golfing career. From flipping his stance at eleven to stepping away from the sport, only to return with a rejuvenated love for the game, Caolan's story is a testament to resilience. We delve into the pressures that once pushed him away from golf and the mindset shift that would bring him back to the Irish amateur scene with a flourish. Caolan's narrative isn't just about overcoming obstacles; it's about rediscovering joy amidst competition and the transformative power of finding your passion.
Imagine balancing a business management degree with reviving a near-professional golf career. This episode peels back the curtain on how Caolan did just that, thanks to a scholarship at Maynooth University and the mentorship of Eugene Smith and Barry Fenley. The collegiate greens provided more than just an education; they offered a sandbox for perfecting chip shots and indulging in trick shot challenges. Even amidst the pandemic, Caolan drive led him to play in the Palmer Cup, a reminder that opportunities can still bloom in the face of adversity. His experiences show us the lighter side of training and the importance of mentors in guiding us through the rough.
Wrapping up our roundtable, we tackle the complexities of balancing personal life with professional ambition, a dance familiar to many high-level athletes. Caolan shares insights on the selection process for prestigious teams, the electrifying thrill of a Walker Cup nod, and how life's milestones, like marriage, can redefine one's trajectory on the fairway. His journey illuminates the tightrope walk between golf and life, the joy of the sport, and the friendships forged along the fairways. It's a conversation that celebrates the birdies and bogeys of a golfer's life, offering a front-row seat to the heart of what makes golf such an enrapturing pursuit.
Follow amateur info
https://instagram.com/irish_amateur_golf_info?igshid=OGQ5ZDc2ODk2ZA==
Every golfer knows that the journey from the first swing to the greens is never a straight shot. That's precisely what Caolan Rafferty, our guest this week, proves as he recounts the swings and roundabouts of his golfing career. From flipping his stance at eleven to stepping away from the sport, only to return with a rejuvenated love for the game, Caolan's story is a testament to resilience. We delve into the pressures that once pushed him away from golf and the mindset shift that would bring him back to the Irish amateur scene with a flourish. Caolan's narrative isn't just about overcoming obstacles; it's about rediscovering joy amidst competition and the transformative power of finding your passion.
Imagine balancing a business management degree with reviving a near-professional golf career. This episode peels back the curtain on how Caolan did just that, thanks to a scholarship at Maynooth University and the mentorship of Eugene Smith and Barry Fenley. The collegiate greens provided more than just an education; they offered a sandbox for perfecting chip shots and indulging in trick shot challenges. Even amidst the pandemic, Caolan drive led him to play in the Palmer Cup, a reminder that opportunities can still bloom in the face of adversity. His experiences show us the lighter side of training and the importance of mentors in guiding us through the rough.
Wrapping up our roundtable, we tackle the complexities of balancing personal life with professional ambition, a dance familiar to many high-level athletes. Caolan shares insights on the selection process for prestigious teams, the electrifying thrill of a Walker Cup nod, and how life's milestones, like marriage, can redefine one's trajectory on the fairway. His journey illuminates the tightrope walk between golf and life, the joy of the sport, and the friendships forged along the fairways. It's a conversation that celebrates the birdies and bogeys of a golfer's life, offering a front-row seat to the heart of what makes golf such an enrapturing pursuit.
Follow amateur info
https://instagram.com/irish_amateur_golf_info?igshid=OGQ5ZDc2ODk2ZA==
Hey, welcome back to the Irish and podcast this weekend, joined by Keelan Rafferty. Keelan, how are you, my man?
Speaker 2:Not too bad, gary and yourself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, man, all good, and we're just chatting a bit off camera there. So it's just started a new year, raf has done a bit of training online and then just back in from work, so a little bit busy tomorrow, and so thanks for taking a bit of time out to get it done, raf. All right, so before we get into the present day, raf, and watch your potential plans are going forward, let's chat a little bit about how you got into the game. So where did you first take it up?
Speaker 2:So when I took it up, when I was probably six or seven, carrying for my dad, he was a member at Green Org Golf Club so I used to get with him every Sunday morning at seven o'clock and carry for 12 holes and then head to the range. Well, he played the last six because it kind of looked really nicely to it.
Speaker 2:But I actually started because I knew he didn't need a seven wood for the last six holes. He's left handed so I used to take it down the range and play left handed back in. So I actually started golf left handed because obviously I was just using dad's clubs. He didn't know if I had the interest or what not. But yes, that's kind of the way I kicked off for a man, seven wood left handed and just played balls down the range.
Speaker 1:And did you play golf a little bit left handed after that, like kind of on the course or anything? I was just under range. No, it was just in the range on.
Speaker 2:Sunday and then when I got to probably 11, that was my first lesson with Robert Giles pro there at the time still is and he said what about giving this game a go right handed? I think it might be a little bit better off of it. So that's kind of where we went from there then took a lot right handed and stuck with it.
Speaker 1:Did you get into pretty quick after that, like once the lessons came along, or?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was just I used to. When I eventually got in as a member, then out there in Green Org, I used to get the boss at eight in the morning from town out there. We'd be there for nine o'clock, play 36, 54, whatever it was in the day. We literally didn't stop. There was a few of us there at the time and then my dad would come out with me now and my grand and collect me at six o'clock in the evening and then I went home. So yeah, it was just nonstop then once they did get into it.
Speaker 1:So when you come play, I know about not wanting to play golf. That's where the Borno came a bit early, was it?
Speaker 2:Probably is yeah, just played too much when I was too young and then just kind of want to play whenever I want to play now, yeah. And what was Boy's golf league for you? Oh, horrendous, I was cat and barely get into events. And when I did get into events, missed. Well, I say cat, I miss most cuts. There used to be top 39 and no ties.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I just happened to be 40th, I think, in three of them.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:And I remember one of them in particular. I think it was in Castle Dog and that time he was shot 16 over first round level power second round to miss it by one spot. But I used to just put a lot of pressure on myself when I was that age and thought I had to be better than I actually was able to be, and then when the scores didn't happen, I was a bit of a thought head. So, yeah, bad combination.
Speaker 1:No, it doesn't work on the golf course. So I put myself a bit of a bit of a team where, like there's like there's obviously a betting in period but, like you'd often hear, like lads think that they have to be better than they need to be, and that continues true men's golf as well a little bit. So like, at what point do you think you start freedom golf out? A little bit.
Speaker 2:Probably. I gave it up for a while. So when I sort of when I finished secondary school, I didn't know what I was doing and I had a career guidance teacher who told me I wouldn't be good enough to get that scholarship time, so I didn't even apply for it. I was off one or maybe two and I was just getting frustrated with so I just acted in for the guts of a year. It was about nine or 10 months.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:And then I just decided one day I'll go back and just enjoy it because I have no pressure on myself anymore and see what happens. I started walking full time in a range just getting coached with Brian Carey at the time, and different things were kind of walking out and I just said, look, enjoy it and see what happens. And from that point on there's really. 2015 was probably my springboard year, I remember, I think, semi finals at the North maybe and there was a bit more confidence, a bit more belief in myself that when I enjoy it and just do my own thing, I can get around the golf course and lower scores. So just stuck with that then and eventually broke into the air scene.
Speaker 1:From that point on, yeah, so it was like the first big kind of change, for you are kind of harder to get over with that mentality stuff, really, wasn't it Like it was just kind of one. It's either having enough belief, and the second part is just kind of like allowing yourself to play golf?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was. It wasn't my job, it wasn't my career. Definitely the pro, you have to do it. But I was still only an amateur playing off. I think I might have been back out to two when I came back then, or three. I was like still nearly playing junior cup goals. So I was like why are we getting so frustrated with this? You're not doing this for a living, so just you're meant to do it as a past time, as a hobby, and enjoy it. And I said that's kind of what I done from that point on and it's just hit me well, so you're saying you're playing off too, just to kind of go off topic a little bit.
Speaker 1:But what was the lowest? You got that in all money, let's say, before WHS.
Speaker 2:I think I got to plus four, maybe plus five, you still, and they're very brief time at it. Well, I was thinking it was like plus five, point one for a couple of days and then obviously got the few point ones back, Plus something similar, something around that in here and then got me, got back was plus four, plus three for a long time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because, like, in fairness, like you're a serious man to throw in some lower scores and that's kind of I wanted to get that one. And they're like there's a lot of chat online about WHS and whether it's been good or bad for the game, but I suppose you've been doing it at that level for ever before it came in, like yeah, like it's still.
Speaker 2:I know people said to give it two years and it'll bet itself in, but I still think it's a bit of a bit of a problem with a bit of an issue especially and it's not even just our end of it, it's probably the other end of the scale, the higher handicappers at the minute. Too much manipulation of handicapping. It's very easy to do it now People have got the grips with how I can get rid of that one good score to win the captain's prize in a very quick time. But then again our side of it, the casual golf, probably ruins it for the low men because championships are hard enough to get into without people playing nine holes here and there and you shoot two on the front. I know somebody got a go to four on that, but no one knows how, or everyone knows how hard it is to finish it around the times, especially if you get a go on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, 100%. And like, as you said, like I'd put up a poll or I'd kind of make a comment on it. It would just come up on social and I definitely get different boardings, like, and I probably get a lot more from the guys that camp. Like we say, even in my own handicapper I kind of face six, just like you're just in complete no man's land because you're not high enough to win a prize, you're not low enough to play anything decent, and you see it like in my own club and other clubs, like let's just win in competitions off 20 and they're going yeah, I played before, you're not off 20. But anyway, that's a completely different part of it. You could probably go on and off a rabbit hole with that one. But back to you a little bit. So you said you came out of school and you didn't go for a scholarship initially, but you end up in the minute after a while, don't you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I done, maybe I think I went to DQIT for a year and then I decided I was going to go to PGA route.
Speaker 2:So, as I say, it was full time working with Brian Kerley at the time and he was in a driving range five minutes from the house so it was so easy for me to get to and we spoke about it and I'd say around that time then I kind of scored, got better, got in, was into all the championships, done decent then that year at the North and it was kind of like there was a gun to your head. Do the PGA or you're going to try and take advantage of being on diverse team for a couple of years and see what it brings and see where it gets you. And I remember sitting at home. Actually Brian came over to the house with me, had a conversation with me and my parents was like which can be a life, all the respect that the time he had to run his own business. He couldn't be giving me three months a year off to go and enjoy myself and play golf for.
Speaker 2:Ireland. So it was around that time Eugene Smith actually got back in. He was in Manus doing his first year and he just said it to me. He was like what would you ever think of coming back as a mature student at Manus? So around Barry Fenley and fairness, barry couldn't have done enough for me at the time. He walked me through everything I had to do, sat with my parents and said, look, this is what I want to do. I want to give golf a go and see what I can do with it Because, as they say, I was enjoying the day at the time again. So Barry, step by step, took me through the whole process and ended up having the scholarship in Manus and done a business management degree out of it as well. So it was probably the best decision I made. Yeah, especially looking at me, dolphin career and where I've got me and Definitely was something that I always think back to if I didn't do that I probably wouldn't have got as much out of the games they did.
Speaker 1:No, I'm not great and like Barry's a. I've met Barry couple times. He seems like a great lad and fairness to me and I suppose you're well aware of it Like you've played paramal cup and Barry know was going to be captain, it Lehench like that's a massive honor for a lot of hard work that he put in like is not unbelievable, like when I was there and it's just before, even with the orna series.
Speaker 2:That's in and out. Yeah, he was one of the chief instigators in this, him and Dean and staring the two boys Constantly. Any event, we were asked to meet, know how we doing this, the events we are playing in at the time Well, awful like. There was a student series event in England and I remember I came second and there was prizes and it was a 10 pound voucher and I kind of just left it and was like what do I do with this?
Speaker 2:I remember going into the shop. Remember going into the shop and buying me something in a Griffon two bottles of coke and a Snickers and walked out the door and said thanks a million lads. Now it's really good. I got to play it on my final year. Lads have it Like it was. It's initially here when I played it and it was great then. But where the boys are getting to play now and the standard of golf that they've brought up is unbelievable like for especially the likes of men out staring St Andrews College, all of them sort of places that don't have the opportunities to go and play in Florida, play all these lonely places, so no barrier. I'm delighted to hear that he got that, that role, and especially with that competition, it's unbelievable.
Speaker 1:So like I know what kind of jump in order place and kind of end up here, but what's your recollection of a hammer cup?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So it was messy because I was meant to play in the Hinch that year and COVID came, so it was looking like I wasn't even going to get the play upon a cup for a long time and then the decision was made to bring it to be ill. So it was a question would you like to travel? And COVID was ripe at the time and no one knew what was gonna come out of it. And again.
Speaker 2:So I was Haley and sat with my parents, was like what do you think they were? Actually can't miss us. It's massive opportunity, and sure that's we read about it. You're young, you're healthy, ish, and You're not like if you get over when you come home, we're just lucky in the room, you'll be fine. Mm-hmm, I don't miss this opportunity. So that's where I came about and I Tuck it up, and it was the best decision I made for that, because the week was unbelievable. Just even having a bail then as well made even more special because we were up in Palmer's office and all these little side things that you never get the opportunity to do again like so 100%.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like it's and that's like again minute like has been kind of great, like given that pathway, like with the RNA series and stuff and kind of like, as you said, it's propelled your golf. So like, from the time we're going into minute, we'd say it to kind of like really contending in championships, like what would you say was the biggest tea to your game.
Speaker 2:It was just the fact that I was able to play golf on the Friday when I was in minutes, meant to be a lectures and TGA for me and a Griffin drag me out you just met for a long number of years as well. The four of us played More golf then. I think we'll ever been alive. But it was just a case of we could open the morning, we had breakfast or we went to the gym or whatever happened to be on on the day. We went, got a coffee and then it was a 50 50 decision.
Speaker 2:I do have to go to that lecture or we going for a chip and competition, and it wasn't 50 50 in the end. Really, it was always a 95 5% sort of one chip and but no, like that's. As you say, I got to play golf more than I could have dreamed to play. It's wake up in the morning to do my best. Come lunchtime I was somewhere, I was in carton on the range Well, probably not the range, but the chip and green, or is that playing tree holes or four holes, whatever, I could get in on the Monty and so Definitely just got to play a lot of golf with a lot of access. Then the coaches and.
Speaker 2:Got to pick their brains a lot. I know they'll all laugh because we always didn't see I day is. You know my sort of my way of going about things as a wee bit different the most. So we always kind of burn cities off and I remember I think it got to the stage where my Lessons turn into trick shots when no one fucks for a long time. And who could do the best trick shots?
Speaker 2:So yeah all these little things just always add to your, add to your talent, add to your skills. But I know definitely like it's the pathway that's not being used enough and I already don't think yeah and a lot of good players. Maybe not good enough to go to the States. Going to Lesser College is just to say they were there.
Speaker 2:Yeah whereas you go to minute now and you have the best of the best there and the opportunities. It's probably not gonna say it's easier, boss, to get onto the likes of that Palmer Cup team. You don't have to be how many hundred thousand college kids.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and over here you have the chance to do it by beating maybe 50 lads. I mean, it's kind of it's one of them things that if you're trying to make yourself better, it's a tough on the call. I understand America's amazing and from all accounts, all the lads can't speak highly enough about it, but I think what we have on our doorstep here is pretty good as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no hundred percent. I think it's definitely something that probably needs to be looked at more, and we mentioned a couple times they're going on to the Chipping Green arm s thing around with no Fox in the sharkium. So is this where all these magic hands kind of horned?
Speaker 2:Well, like growing up as a young fella, that's all I wanted was new edge, everything. It was a case of fall. I won a new club and It'd be all you want to drive, or a quarter. I was like no, a new love wedge or a new gap wedge or whatever. It was just I spent days and days and days just chipping at something I really enjoy doing. Yeah, imagination ways. That's probably why I like it more, because the harder the shots, the more fun it was gonna be to To do it. And then, if you can do it Well, just keep repeating it until you perfect it and eventually I have a few of them that I have done pretty well Over the time, and only for them I probably would have shot a lot more 90s and 80s.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you definitely have something in your arsenal that will get you out of a lot of trouble and fairness. Yeah, and the shot. Actually I don't want to go back there. And again we're gone miles ahead of where we're supposed to be. To put it up a top, more shark game, but the one you hit into the drivable power four and lay at home last year in the scratch cup Is it nine or ten is the power for down the hill?
Speaker 2:Down to the left.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, you went, you missed it. You missed the green will say left. You run the fairway for the next hole and you shipped it across the orc Like I remember looking at it, kind of just going yeah, it's just like, oh like, and I'd seen a lot of people over there that day and you were probably as close to the hole by about six or seven feet and anybody else like even got there. But I knew like you look so comfortable with a wedge in your hand. It's actually scary sometimes. It's just, it's just like an extension of your arm and fairness and as far as that's it, it's just reps, like it's not.
Speaker 2:It's just that it's like people get into them shots and get afraid of them and worried where I get excited and yeah how can I get this to stop?
Speaker 2:or how can I get this close enough to to make the pasta or whatever most of the time and take it? Can I hold it? And the heart of the shot it was actually we only talked about that at Christmas. Haley's mom wouldn't watch a lot of golf and stuff and I walk a cop. She kind of turned around and said that that American guy, so boring, he just hits it down the middle and hits it on the green and two pots. It's just like at least Keelan's exciting. He's way over there and they're off, and then he's up further in the rough and he gets up and down for the same scores. I just kind of like, well, that's, it's not great when you're doing that because, as you're always in a bit of a lot of it, no, I have that little bit of an ability to get out of trouble.
Speaker 1:Well, I probably shouldn't yeah, I think you're selling yourself a bit shorter to. You're not exactly wild off the team. Fairness, you're fair.
Speaker 2:No, I was that week. It was that we.
Speaker 1:Okay, I get to walk a cup in a minute. I mean, give it the time it deserves. Let's go back a little bit. So like, well, I think it's back, but like was it your first championship win? What do you remember of it? First was the south.
Speaker 2:And I think it was. It was either 17 or 18. Again, I'm used to it could be 19, but I'm just used to it here and All I thought was and I think everyone that was there and they that I couldn't have won us playing 18 Do a role and played. We both played scrappy to start off with, then sort of the middle 10. They got really good. There was a lot of good golf played and I took me chances when they came and then he would take his chances when they came losing.
Speaker 2:They've been talk all the way, but I remember being one down on 18 and just saying, well, I have to go for it. And again, not that I would be the longest hitter, but they played it off the new tee and I mean you go up and to had to be to me some the best they just remember hitting to. The probably best driver and tree was whoever hit me life to, maybe 50 feet, just scraped onto the front edge, pinned back left, and I remember only enough and I'm standing on the green just saying please give me a chance to take it in 19, hit it on the road or do something mental here. And he hit probably on the best way shots under the pressure that you'll see.
Speaker 2:Hmm pass it by about 15, 20 feet and spun it back to for it was not unbelievable shot. And I'm standing on the green just clapping them because when you appreciate, yeah, good, like it's so good. I remember putting mine up stone dead saying, look, make him half the whole it's yeah pressures on it's.
Speaker 2:I know he had a bit of issues with the health over the years and he didn't get over the line when he probably should have and, in fairness to me, had a good pot. It just didn't break, caught the, caught the left and spotted out. So I had to head off ready to shake his hand because they didn't think he'd miss it the way he was playing all day and Locking off, cut off 19, shoulda won it on 19. They did bad lip out from maybe 10 feasts. They don't know how it didn't go in still.
Speaker 2:And and then I drove it in the fellow bunker down the second and I remember turning to own and I actually walked down the hill On to the fourth because I was just raging, knowing the second to get a bit of half-eye. You need to get your drive down there. You can always reach it to go and hit one way left, which is a smart play to do after me doing what I don't but I like to do was chip out. And then I had probably one of the probably the best for anyone who ever hit me, life to 25 feet and Rowan kind of not made a mess but didn't pay the whole as well as he probably thought of, left himself about 30 feet then for barley. He missed. And then I held the long one across the green and I just remember seeing videos of it still getting how he gives you chills, thinking like that was your first one and what a way to do it and and the feeling after it, like to win your first championship is, is pretty special.
Speaker 1:I know and like again inches kind of holds, that kind of special way If you like an in a great place to do it, but like, how long is that after you go back to me? No, that's the wrong. The same time Is that.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, it was probably around that time. I might have been there actually, and I'm at a minute, five, six years Maybe, yeah, so I would have been in minute at the time, I mean, and Even my first year there.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So again, like coinciding with that kind of the way I thought the correct decision from that kind of call, which are all about the kind of look, let's give it all ago and end up there and kind of put the work in, like you get the reward and something that I would know what is rough watching a lot is that like, as I said, like I kind of mentioned earlier, that like you're not while after you seem to be very repeatable, and it's something I think a lot of people would say about you when they're chatting. So like going for someone that wants to kind of see the shot, like you want to be, like you like to be a bit of imagination and stuff Like how do you then kind of go back through your game, like onto the tee and just kind of see I suppose the right job, but you don't tend to kind of cover the whole pile after deal of yeah, no, and that would have been something of all.
Speaker 2:They would have had a lot of right to left movement in my ball flight. I used to hang back and turn the hands and hit a big hook down the fairway and but I put a lot of walking Probably in around. Even at that time I was still doing Me own golf swing. I didn't really change much.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And still played with a bit of curvature at the end times. More recent times. Yeah, I done a lot of work when we had no golf In covet. And when I say a lot, of a lot of work, I probably spent a bit of month dollars max and walking with Dougie and walking on trying to have a lot more face control and being able to hit it straight, because you can hit it straight and I know I'm not that long, I'm never going to be that long. So if I can keep hitting the straight and hit the fairways, I have enough length. That'll get me around any golf course that we play and Pro levels obviously a bit different, but for any course that we play as an amateur, that's never really an issue. Yeah, it's more so. Who can? Who is the better brain? Who can play golf better? Really? Yeah, what's the carry numbers? Uh, it's, it's slightly increasing. Seven rounds up just over the 170 mark now and driver, I wouldn't have the clue it's probably Burr into 260 mark. I am more than enough.
Speaker 1:That's kind of, as I said, I think you think you're shorter than you actually are, like.
Speaker 2:I'm efficient. That's what I always say. Definitely efficient, 100% revision.
Speaker 1:But what I have. You don't be that far behind a lot of the lads. In fairness, you know and it's a conversation I've had it before it will be in short and like I'm short draft, I'll go for the game with you someday. You see what you are after At least a nice, low and nicky kind of sleazy thing that goes about 180 in the air. But the west talk to you about that one. So the first year the west goes to straw play, that suited me down to the ground.
Speaker 2:That would add to the me down to the ground like crosses to me. Straw play course. I was in the element when I heard it was going that way Um, because I could done quite well in this straw play, qualifying the two previous years. And when I heard it was stroke play, I was like right, let's go enjoy this. And I can't remember if that's the one that me. Yeah, I stayed in TJ's house that year.
Speaker 2:We actually came home from st Andrews the day before the practice round, got into doubling that like half 12 at night and me and TJ drove to sligo, got in at like four in the morning and we slept. We got up at nine o'clock we were like, right, go for a practice round. And the weather was absolutely horrendous. We were like we sat in the clubhouse thing for five hours drinking tea and having the crack, a lot of the lads and it kind of that suits me, that sort of chilled out. If I you've not really I'm not wanting to put in a lot of walking and doing all these sort of prep sort of things just turn up, take off, see what happens. So it probably helped me out in a way that we could just take it easy. We didn't have to do a whole pile Heated up. You don't know what to expect then because You're after doing all that travel and they didn't have to come for the. Unlucky enough, I kind of paid off. But, as I say, ross is suits, my idea like it there.
Speaker 2:Um, it was actually raging that year because the Irish arm went as well. I couldn't do us with college Sam's on so I couldn't explain it. So it's at the one in the west and then Not been able to pay Irish arm with a second out. But uh yeah, it was a good event.
Speaker 2:I remember having a ding down with Aaron Edwards Hill and Connor Purcell in the last round or getting into the last round, the five shot lead maybe going into it and after maybe eight holes I was only one or two ahead and I remember, just like my cousin carried for me that I think how he would carry for me I remember just kept saying to him the boys haven't put a foot around here for the first eight holes it goes, the crew game is going to bite someone at some stage. So he just kept chipping away and made a birdie here and there. A lot of parts, I just remember it was one time I I might have held a really long pot and Connor actually three put it and it was a massive swing in momentum. Then it just kind of killed him because he was out of the potting and all the walk all day to do this and me do what I done.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And Aaron kind of just struggled a little bit then as well. But I remember getting the play the last with like a five shot lead and it was the best feeling ever to have no stress. Especially when they put that pin at the very back and it's tiny to gap into it, it goes hitting the nine out from under. George, I was just trying to get it anywhere on to that tier, but yeah, it was nice to beat like eight pots or whatever was from 20 feet. So there was a lot of pressure on me at that stage.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that must have been a very nice walk. Like this again Ross is like I suppose it can fry anyone's brain like but coming up 17 and then like to be able to kind of walk up there in what where it might look like one of the hardest holes in the course, as you said, like if the pin is back there it can just do silly things sometimes, like so, like it must have been a very enjoyable walk for you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was. It's maybe in 17 as well. I made a birdie and 17 a driver and two iron into it and I kind of that. Again, that added to the whole thing. You're so relaxed about 18 then and then walking over the hill and there was a good crowd around the green. A lot of people I knew made the this, made the travel over and again. Have your second one in short time, sort of after the set, and hold to them at the one time was a lovely feeling to, and I remember driving home from the drive no, I actually drove from there to Dublin Airport to head to sort of Grand Air with the Irish team the next day. But when I came home made a bit of night in the club and have two trophies there and things like that. They are always nice memories to have.
Speaker 1:Something you mentioned there support. You tend to kind of have a very good network around. Your own choice was like whenever you're playing, people turn up and they're watching. That must be very nice, for that people kind of will give up their time to come and watch a game.
Speaker 2:Life and Dark has been unbelievable to me and support me every time.
Speaker 2:Even when I was working there, they gave me the extra days off to go and play events, like last year for a move job. But everyone wants to see you do well. And then someone said to me it's kind of brought a new life to the club, me doing well at events as well, because people's interests are. People of eight years of age found a heavy use Google to look up scores or look up your page now, which is even better for them, because before that they hadn't got a clue how to do it or even what was on, but now they just they weren't really open to it. A lot of the lads that would have played championships were a bit older and not playing them as much now and different things. So brought a new lease of life to the club, which is nice too. And, as you say, they do travel very well. They go everywhere if they could.
Speaker 1:You've won the West, you've won the South, you've run us up in the East and you've a semi final in the North. Which one is your favorite championship?
Speaker 2:Well, because of where it is, I'd love to win the.
Speaker 2:East. I've told that now for a long number of years. It was kind of second. I finished third, second, second, then the last three times playing it. It's a course again, bit like Ross's, it just suits me. I played a lot of it. It's always an unbelievable condition and I just got picked by Alex the last two years to come out like a train in the last two years ago and then obviously last year I had the chance to get him on 18. I made a massive effort. That's the early story. And then he had a good part to get into the playoffs and, to be fair to him, through everything I had Adam on the night that day they get up and down from 50 yards to make him have the hole as three for the shot. It was special for him to get to shoot two on the three holes in the playoffs. He's pretty good goals.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know what it is. I was thinking you were going to say the East won, just the location as well. But like I suppose it's the one that has the most history is Strupp-Stroppler. Like you are, as I said earlier, you're the man that likes to go low, or you're a man very careful of going low, so like the Struppler stuff, really kind of I suppose it lends or you lend yourself to it a lot better, I suppose.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it's like, as you say, I can go low at times, but again, I was on it. I've done it once. I remember shooting 61 at the British Arm one year in Princes and literally from that point on it was kind of like someone hit a switch, that you're not afraid to do it anymore.
Speaker 2:And they're kind of at the right time, especially with sort of events with Ireland, the six man and different things. They've kind of come out with a good score at the right time to sort of propel the team. But again it's. It's something that I'm good at, because if I'm in trouble I can get out of it and when the putters walk in it's quite hot that I give myself a lot of chances. It's just the days that the product goes away, be cold and I shave a lot of edges or whatever else, 30 days that I don't shoot alone. But the thing I probably would say I'm better at is keeping the big numbers off the card is my big thing, like my bad score used to be your 81s, 82s, but a big thing that Brian told me when I was playing with him. He said if you want to be better, your bad score has to be 73, 74, which I feel like kind of improved on a little bit as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, you're massively consistent. So you touched on Ireland and we kind of touched a little bit on team violence and kind of Ireland and stuff like that. So cut Ireland for a second. When did you get your first call up for Ireland?
Speaker 2:So my first call was actually a trip to Columbia with Tiana McLaren back 2016, 2017. Again, tony Good came up to me I had inter-prose in Carlo and said look, because I kind of was a bit hard done by that year, I would have felt maybe a year before even, because I had done the scores the AM was leading qualifier, the true couple of stages and match play. And I remember being told oh well, I just don't think it's enough, I don't think you're ready, the pressure would be too much for you to be on the six man team. I kind of was taken back by what you have to do here to get into these teams. But even all the lads that said it to me were a bit hard done by so and so, and that's the way it went.
Speaker 2:But the first call or cap if you want to call it that was head to Columbia on a 25 hour trip with Tiana McLaren. He had opened an event the next day, but it turned out to be probably one of the best trips I ever had. Didn't really know Tiana that well at the time and probably one of my best friends now. The crack we had from the minute we met in Dublin airport the minute we finished. We actually I was lucky if I won the individual and then we won the team aspect of it as well, so it was a good week. To kind of step myself up Now, it wasn't that major of an event. It ended up being the handicap section of it.
Speaker 1:The net scores was more important than the gross scores, but it was still a good event all the same 100% and like you said, like getting hair done, with the hair before or whatever, and then kind of being sent out to represent them and was coming back with a win, like there's no better way of saying, look, I should be here. Like you know, yeah, and something you touched on there with the travel with Tiana and stuff is that like and that's kind of a net, there's a massive Bradree in amateur golf, like isn't there, like it's there's a good network of VR. Was kind of traveling to get on stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like at the time, obviously, with the GUI used to travel as a team. So it was six lad cent and you met up in the airport and, years old, went together and shared rooms or whatever it happened to be. But even though that's not happening, lads are still organizing among themselves to meet up together, share a house, share a car, do this. Irish people are very friendly. Even all the lads get on very well with each other.
Speaker 2:I'll be get on with each other because they just like each other and abuse each other from the minute to meet to the minute to finish. And it kind of spurs you on as well because you don't want to shoot a bad score, because you would have had the likes of Rob morning. You're here the next day. Abuse you better than tell you all about what you done wrong and everything else and but a yeah, don't like all the lads they give in make. John got set it to me at one stage. He was like how do you, saw, like each other so much? Yeah, you might think we abuse each other that much. People think we don't like each other just that's just the way it is.
Speaker 2:Everyone gets on very well, and everyone wants to see everyone do well too, so it is a nice sort of setup to be a part of, and you make a lot of good friends out of it too you get him a bit of a going over our own dealing as well.
Speaker 1:In fairness, you're like he wasn't left out of all of them no, john.
Speaker 2:John got a plenty of abuse that day and a good friendship with John. Now he deserves it as well, to be fair to him yeah, but the other stuff then.
Speaker 1:So like you come back from Columbia and I like did you play six man first or homes I might have played six man first.
Speaker 2:I only think now it could be wrong and saying that because I remember playing homes in Morton in again not sure if that was 2017 or 18 okay but I can't. I can't definitely recall which was first and I remember winning homes the first year I played in it yeah and I remember having a brutal European six man the first year we played in it.
Speaker 2:So yeah, look, as you say, they're getting to be part of a team. We don't get to do it enough. It's always. They're always the best weeks, if you ask me so do you remember much of that home?
Speaker 1:so you obviously do like your first kind of big win, yeah.
Speaker 2:I remember standing on the first tee I was very nervous and they took a divot of about four inches behind the ball with driver and Colin fell where I stood up and hit it. Three was a par five. I only it managed to catch the failure and run about 150 yards. The Colin fell where I must have hit a tree with about 340 yards in the middle of the brief. Never seen anything like it and I went five from six that week. Then I thought to be first match of Connor Pursl and then had a good week after that, but again to win it that week being the first time there was fast with all the lights and I used to play with the lights that.
Speaker 2:I played it for years, but like so Paris Gleason, paul McBride was there, robin Dawson these lights were played so many times and it was like their first time winning as well, you know, because I don't think Colin was there that year, but like he might have been, actually he was there when he came in the 70s, Colin was there, Peter was there as well, I think yeah, he would give out three for sure.
Speaker 2:And he wasn't there because I remember hitting his shot into 18 on the clubhouse roof and, even though it was nice, it didn't matter and he still drew wildly at the end of the box. That's just Colin.
Speaker 1:That would be the promo to this anyway. Team Galf Raff, because, again, like you're as it's kind of mentioned, but you're like you do enjoy the cracking fair in a show, like, even in the heat of battle you enjoy a bit of crack, like. So, like, have you found the team Galf like to be like a real asset to your own game?
Speaker 2:Yeah, like again getting to play with the lads, like that week, as I said, my first one with Ireland it was me and Terno in the same group every day and we were spurring each other on because we knew we had to do well as a team if we were going to do it. And it does. Like you can't say, even though it's an individual game, you're there to do it for the lads like six man especially, that's every hole. You're just fighting because you know you don't know what the other lads are going through, you don't know how they're bad breaks and golf is all it can be some days. And then, obviously, when you shoot a good score and you come in and the lads were like, well, how did you get on? And you were able to tell them it's, it just lifts everyone and as lucky enough to have done it a few times and lucky enough to be there when other lads have done it as well and we needed them there to shoot scores. And probably the best feeling was the year that we were dead and buried in St George's. I think it might have been St George's. We had like a mad 26 shot turnaround or whatever it was. Maybe it wasn't St George's.
Speaker 2:But I remember going out to first day we were all like deflated. We hit the shot, maybe never the power as a team, which we didn't think was too bad, but maybe a couple over. But we were all like what's going on? We're second last here and this isn't where we want to be. And we all went out the next day.
Speaker 2:We all didn't say anything to each other that evening. We just kind of went back through the hotel. Everyone was raging about it and we're going for dinner across the road. Now you didn't say anything to us, no one that was with us, none. The selected round, they just kind of walked over. I had the chats, had dinner, as if we were after shooting 50 on the power of the team. And at the end of it, well, I think I remember who was now turned around and said you know what you have to do. It might have been Mick just said you know what you have to do, lads, and that was the only team we had that evening. And we all went out the next day and that's the place. And then we're getting into the car place and gave it a great run that year.
Speaker 1:We should have had spin yeah, and I get, as you said, like six man and then like it is definitely like something. I think that like people are obviously responding to and like again, there's levels to it and stuff. But like six man with that, with the initial stroke, the element, it can make it very challenging in terms of like as was, everyone is relying on everybody else to kind of perform. It's not just on you, like, as in would imagine stuff. But so three questions here on your Irish stuff, your favorite moment from your homes favorite moment homes probably.
Speaker 2:Well, we mean TJ getting a win or we only got a half in Hankley Common, actually down 18 either either. Good, bus stop with the English selectors. Well, we come off the tee and it kind of had to be separated because they were doing stuff that I didn't agree with and we were deep in the shit as well and I said, dj's, we are not losing these two boys, we are an unbelievable half over the time. But that's probably what the memory sticks with me because again fired up for representing your country and different things like that there, but again going back to the wee man Robmore and had to just keep sticking his nose in afterwards and that's probably why it sticks out more than that now.
Speaker 2:Favorite moment from six man Six man again probably shooting the score shot a great score last year and then obviously finishing third. Probably the pick of that week was me and Matt against Denmark on 17 and Matt hit an unbelievable second shot in, but he hit it too well, flew the green into a forest and we just about found the ball and I remember saying everyone was looking at it was a low bump and run out and me, being me, decided to flop it up over the trees through a guy and Matt held the 34th down the hill and I think I'm the first man ever to get a fist pump out of Matt McLean. He gave it socks down the green.
Speaker 1:So again, that's an unbelievable memory to have the best partner you've had for Ireland.
Speaker 2:Best partner. Funny enough, I've done quite well with Robmore and we've had a good sort of good set up with foursome's golf. We played pretty solid together. Yeah, I kind of haven't really had a bad one as such and anyone I've played foursome's with, it's kind of been pretty good. We've always gelled well together and, like as you said earlier, I think we had a lot of laughs and jokes. They can't really pick anything out in particular, but I know more recently I would have been with Rob quite a bit and we've done quite well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, two, similar enough lads and fairness to be a lot of nice, nice comments.
Speaker 2:you know, yeah, you wouldn't want to have too many people around you.
Speaker 1:No, you wouldn't want to hit a bad shot like because like it wouldn't be good a player to be talking about it. Like you'd be robbing of a nice going over walking down the fairway like.
Speaker 2:It's not worth it when you're with him.
Speaker 1:Sticking with team golf ref. So all of this great golf we're talking about, you've got to play walker cup and, first off, talk to them about getting a phone call to say you were selected.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I actually I missed the phone call. I was in Pinehurst at USM and I had no sort of data right, and so I was just an up and over the week and I remember getting an email. I was like what's the email about here? And it was just from Craig. It's time to say just giving you the heads up. This is going to be on SkySport News tomorrow. You're selected. I've been trying to ring you for the last three days. No answer. Yeah right, whatever it was.
Speaker 2:So I was actually traveling home and never really I was in the car when I had to leave straight away and again with no signal. I couldn't get any signal on the phone, so I couldn't have anyone at home for a good few hours and they were all here and so, and so was on it, and this was on it, different people. So the usual and I ran and they got an email. You didn't get a phone call and I was like no, I only got an email. It's not great. I gave them the sub story and then I was told them the opposite. But yeah, unbelievable feeling to get that call, something I never tried to do and because, as we said earlier, I was never really good enough up until I don't know years. If I got the lens back half years ago, I would have been delighted to be able to say that for GB and I then was even better again.
Speaker 1:And how much is that? Do you remember that week? But like again, like what's your kind of would say, your top trip, take away from that week.
Speaker 2:Again meeting all the lads that you don't really play with every week. And again the slagging joke and we were lucky to have Tom Plum and Tom Sloman, who were just two lunatics they were sort of the life and soul of the team and Sandy Scott, but getting to meet all lads and feel like we knew each other for years and we all had the same goal in mind. And obviously then just a whole week of watching experience arriving to get see your name on the bag and all the bits and pieces to go with it and memorabilia that you have for a lifetime. They're all nice things. And then obviously, just the crowds.
Speaker 2:The crowds are unbelievable and, as I said I think I might have said it to someone else's podcast about how close they got to us. So just crazy. And I remember saying a fellow was recently we've had the Nick and Miles bar over at one stage and I'm fairly sure he might have got a couple out of it, but it was just mad that they were that close. At times you were saying, remember, you're gonna be able to swing the club here, but it was.
Speaker 2:It was an unbelievable week that obviously I was good when Sugey heard us back because me and him were partners and again our game. Sugey chatted down to the ground. He doesn't miss many fairways. I gave him a lot of chances and he was being great that year and but obviously just didn't walk out that way and I only got a pair of two singles. So it would be the only downside to it all, but again winning the first eight singles the crowd there are chill. You get.
Speaker 1:It's just mental and you get well pumped up really and it was this time Raph I run the same time as that. Like there's a lot of talk, definitely externally, I would say, about Raph potentially turning pro, or does his Raph turning pro, or Raph should turn pro and Raph decides not to turn pro. What did you decide not to turn, bro?
Speaker 2:so I only hides to finally here in college, left in Malouse. So I was like what's the point in wasting two years? I'll just finish college, hopefully get a little bit better again, and these opportunities will still be there for me come Maytime. And that's something that I think is probably that's what the Americans do very well. There's a lot of opportunities when they finish college in Maytime, whereas over here we don't get that. You're just you're out into the big bad world and figure it out yourself. But I said, look, I'll take the chance and go back, finish college, see how I am, maybe play one more year as amateur and then maybe turn pro. That September Still was probably 70%. Sure he's going to do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Getting COVID hit and I remember sitting doing the exams at the kitchen table at home and saying to myself, well, where would I have been now? And not to say the lad's done decent out of it there, like of course it's going well. But he put a lot of hard work in during tough times there where it was nothing happening for him and it's great seeing getting rewards now. Whether you've been able to do it, my mentality probably not. I would have just got pissed off and went away about my own business, probably love for something else anyway. But I might still look. I don't have any regrets and what I've done probably won't at this stage, won't ever turn pro either. I'm happy to just enjoy myself. I'm happy with the job I have at the minute and be able to play one or two events a year. Haley's great there. She's fully understanding and whenever you want to play golf, just go play golf. So I'm good enough to see her right now. And would I be in this position if I don't play for all? Who knows?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and that's it, Like it's not, like it has to come with, like, the want to do it, like the same as everything else and we mentioned numerous times in the past there's portions of your life where you've just got the opportunity to play more golf or you've played more golf and, as a result of playing more golf, you play better golf. But if you're not, if you don't have the full drive to kind of want to be a pro, you're never really going to work out as a pro, regardless of how much talent you actually have. Like you said, you're going to play one or two events a year. Raph, please tell me it's going to be a few more than that.
Speaker 2:Like I said last year, it wasn't going to play any and I ended up playing full schedule.
Speaker 2:So, even though I said that I always end up finding myself, the one saw was there to go when when the enter dates coming up, I'll start entering and see what happens, and then you know, right, well, they're going to go, but no, I will be kind of playing a little bit less than I normally have played. And, as you say, I have a job now, I'm enjoying and it's quite busy and it's going to be demanding and I feel like to give them sort of full respect as well. So that's going to take number one place for the minute between that and golf, obviously. Then just that married as well. So happy life to happy wife. I have to keep that in mind too. But no, it's all good at the moment.
Speaker 1:It can be very happy when you're on the course too, because you're not a one bothering only you know.
Speaker 2:Well, in fairness, I'd say he'd be more happy if he was on the course and stuff and I had every day. So yeah, I think that's why he wants me to play more golf.
Speaker 1:She loves you, but just a little bit, like the sense she loves you a lot more when you're on the course, you know yeah.
Speaker 1:This year. I suppose I was surprised that it maybe not. And again, I don't mean that as a kind of smart remark in terms of like book back on the high performance team again with the schedule you're playing, I suppose, but I know you haven't been on it officially for the last number of years, but you get picked on the sixth man. You get picked at home because of the quality of golf. Are you going to try to play any bit earlier in the year, or is it just the case of if your schedule fits and you can get the results when then you take up the spot later in the year?
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, it's just kind of see what happens. In one way, I'd say that it's probably golf. Ireland's hands are tied because there's obviously criteria you have to meet to make the high performance panel and at the time of picking I might have been one on Waggon. I made every criteria and, in fairness to them, it's a very hard call because they pick me. People are going to say he's not going to play for the schedule. But if they don't pick me, it's a case of why he wasn't he picked. Look at me, this and the world, and he's that and he's the other. If it's true, if you know him behind it all, I probably would have much preferred someone younger. But give them the opportunities that I've been given over the years, like a young lad coming up there, for example, there in our club. I'd love to see him get the opportunity to go to all these events because he's getting better, he's the interest in it, he's going to be available to play a lot more than I am.
Speaker 2:I'm going to be, but, just as I say, definite reasons. I don't know why, but I'm sure that there's a reason why I was put on the panel. Obviously, they'll be hoping that I'm going to play a lot more golf and I'm going to be available for all the teams. But I kind of said said from the get go that I can't commit to a full schedule, that I fully understand another and but we're going to just take an event by event and see what happens.
Speaker 1:And look the last number of years, as I kind of said at the start, like you've qualified for the events just to kind of play anyway, so like you're certainly not taking anybody's spot. You know what I mean and that's definitely not what I meant by it either. But yeah, it was just that it was this kind of schedule conflicts or look, life becomes life and, as you said, you just got married and congratulations on that one as well. But new job, new wife, she's been around the world, she's that brand you know, like life is kind of. I suppose you're at that stage of life where it's kind of looking at the next chapter a little bit as well, like, but Irish Amazon and county sligo so you've mentioned stroke, then sligo a couple of times.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I just think I have to do a fitting day over in sligo that week and see if I can be there for it. And, yeah, no luck. You said our life was on, but I'm going to try and take a leaf out of Kali's book and try and do what he's doing. It's just after shooting through the roof when he started his sort of full time job and everything else. So hopefully, if I can follow in his footsteps, we'll be flying in a couple of years as well.
Speaker 1:Well, kali was driving around in that van for a while, and he was playing enough golf too.
Speaker 2:It's doable, and getting a nose callie callie next quite hard, so he'd be able to get away with more than most human beings.
Speaker 1:You're talking about Waggar there Raph and selections and stuff. And I have to ask you, like the Walker Cup one this year definitely a surprising one I think you were heard. If not, I think you were heard maybe four ranked player in Waggar and playing some phenomenal golf on a limited schedule. So like every time you turned up you performed like that must have been a massive disappointment for you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like I am quite open about that one that I thought it was a disgrace just from my own side of it and to the point where I feel like I must have done something on the captain and he doesn't like me because that's twice now. He's kind of overlooked me when probably should have been on the team. Really, fair enough, I didn't play as much events and didn't play a couple of the early ones that all lads had went to, but anything I teed it up in last year. I bet 95% of the panel Like I'll expect me to couple of them St Andrews. I done well and good record around St Andrews and to be not picked.
Speaker 2:And when I seen who did get picked then like Jack the Geese is on. So I think he could have played Jack the Geese and built up a bit of experience instead of getting picked on the main event. But again, look, as you say, I asked questions after I was fuming about whether the phone calls I got were it's called a spade of spade nonsense. That's just my opinion. On everything else, obviously they'll have their opinion and they'll say what they say. But even then to be called second reserve, not even the first reserve, was just a kick in the stones but, as I said, the idea before in Semmler, the previous work up, I should have been on it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I was second an automatic pick leading up to the last day of of Wagon being updated, and Alex Fitzpatrick actually overtook me that day and the team was announced then that evening and I got a call to say I imagine you were nearly an automatic pick.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And now you're not on it. And I remember, just like you can imagine, what I said when I came off the phone. Yeah, I said the hothead's still in there. So this time round I said if it's a Semmler phone call, I'll be making sure my voice is heard. And I said what I had to say is I don't hold back if I feel I'm right and they say not too many people could believe it because, as you said and everyone else is going to say it, I don't have to say it myself that I played really well last year, made the cuts in all the big events and lads that missed the cuts at the three main events in the middle of the year, one of them being in San Andrews Getspec the Hell of Me is nonsense, as I said here, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:They say it was so a point. But all I kept saying was imagine if it was a pre-first one, that I never got to play one and that's the way. I was treated, it probably would feel a lot worse. But to set back and say it's the same thing, that I could have potentially had treated him on the rebuild but only one is probably still a second or as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like I suppose there's like an unfairness there is that positive that you got the one and look, there's definitely the tool there that, as you said, questionable is probably even too nice a word. So, with all that, raf, and you've kind of mentioned already that you're going to pay a limited schedule next year, but how?
Speaker 2:limited. Are we talking? Well, as you said, it's just an event to event to see what happens. I don't even know kickstarting, because obviously we've the honeymoon is up forward now in March, in the March time, so we only recently booked that, so that's kind of going to take a lot of time out of me holidays.
Speaker 2:And obviously I had a busy year's time of the year for events, but, as you say, look, there's still plenty of events that I can go to and once we don't have any other holidays planned, I can use the annual leave days now for for playing what I want to play in. But I said, yeah, I'm happy kind of back doing a little bit of social golf and being able to play when I want to play. And that's to me a lot more than having to play, I think.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So just make sure you keep a week's office like for the Irish and definitely keep a week for Bali Liffen for the amateur championship. You have a fairly stellar record in that, particularly in the last number of years. So I think and you like Bali Liffen as well- so, yeah, I have to keep that one in mind. There's two big ones there for you, Raf. Thank you for your time. Hope all goes well. I hope all the settling into married life is going well for you and the new job.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the Hoover's my best friend.
Speaker 1:I said I shall catch you on a fairway in 2024 at some point, hopefully.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, Gary. Thanks a million.