Sober Curious, Mindful & Alcohol-Free Drinkers Podcast: Low No Drinker
The Low No Drinker Podcast is the place to come and meet the people, places and brands leading the low, no and light alcohol revolution! It’s your introduction to a life less intoxicated with no judgment, no pressure and no expectation.
Get closer to the people behind the drinks that make it possible for you to live a life less intoxicated, whether that’s for a night, a week, a month, a year or a lifetime, and the industry experts bringing it all to your door.
Find out what motivates them, what their own journey was like and why you should try their amazing drinks.
Then, in our second weekly episode, it's time to dive into the hows and whys of low, no and light drinks, drinkers and drinking.
In these solo episodes, I help you answer questions like:
- Why do alcohol-free drinks cost the same as full-strength ones when they don't have any booze?
- Why can't I find a non-alcoholic red wine that I like?
- What the heck is ABV anyway?
Join me, Denise Hamilton-Mace, the founder and editor of Low No Drinker Magazine, the leading GLOBAL magazine for mindful and sober curious drinkers, as I help you find, understand and enjoy the drinks that allow us all to live a life less intoxicated.
Sober Curious, Mindful & Alcohol-Free Drinkers Podcast: Low No Drinker
#84. 5 Hours of Sober Clubbing Bliss with The House of Happiness
This week I'm thrilled to be joined by Neil Hudson-Basing, the “chaotic, queer and kind” co-founder of House of Happiness - London's sober clubbing extravaganza. Neil takes us behind the scenes of creating London's first queer-led sober rave, from its humble beginnings to becoming a glitter-filled, music-pumping daytime party at one of London's top clubs.
We dive into the challenges of launching a sober event in traditional clubbing venues, the careful curation that goes into creating an inclusive space, and the emotional moments that have validated their mission.
From the pre-meet pastries to the confetti cannons, Neil paints a vivid picture of what to expect at their events - and trust me, there's nothing boring about this sober party! With their expansion to Manchester and collaborations open across the UK, House of Happiness is proving that you absolutely can still smash it on the dance floor without a drop of alcohol or drugs.
WE CHAT ABOUT
2:00 Neil's story
18:02 The House of Happiness experience: what to expect
27:21 London to Manchester
33:25 Sober in the queer community
39:27 The bar & managing alcohol in the venue
55:40 Tips for non-drinkers on a night out
1:05:22 The BBQ-Q
HOUSEOFHAPPINESS.CO.UK // @houseofhappinessofficial
WE ALSO TALK ABOUT:
Pause & Rewind Podcast
Neil’s Substack
Myth*
Three Spirit*
Thatcher’s*
Stryk*
Lyre’s*
Goat
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Head to lownodrinkermagazine.com/subscribe and start your free trial today!
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Hello, hello and welcome to this week's conversation on the Loner Drinker podcast, bringing you closer to the people, places and brands leading the low, no and light alcohol revolution. Today I am very honored to be speaking to my guest and friend, the lovely Mr Neil Hudson Basing. Neil describes himself on his socials I love this description as chaotic, queer and kind and still smashing it on the dance floor, and I've seen Neil throwing a few shapes and I can attest he is definitely smashing it as well. He should be, because he is one third of the founding team of House of Happiness, which is what we're here to talk about today.
Speaker 1:Among other things, house of Happiness is London's sober clubbing extravaganza. They've been going for a couple of years now. I've been to a couple of their raves and they are phenomenal, and I want to talk today about where the inspiration came from, the trials and tribulations and the challenges and the successes that he's had. See, I said to Neil when I started if I don't write my introductions, I ramble, and now I just fluff my words, but you know, it happens it happens.
Speaker 1:I'm a public speaker and it happens all the time and that, of course, was the lovely Neil, and he's going to share with us so much about what he's been up to, including the great work that he does bringing together this event that puts a sober LGBTQIA plus event in the mainstream, and his amazing, relentless work to make drinking sober or sober curious or mindfully accessible to everyone, no matter where you drink, what you drink and who you drink it with. So thank you very much for joining me, my darling. How are you today, neil?
Speaker 2:I am great. Thank you so much for having me. It's always lovely to see you.
Speaker 1:Oh, bless you. You too, my darling. No, it is good fun. You were one of the first people that I met in this whole sober, non-drinking, mindful drinking sphere many moons ago, because you launched House of Happiness roughly around the same time that I did the magazine. I think you were obviously first and you've done some amazing stuff with it so far, so congratulations on all of that. I think it's brilliant.
Speaker 2:Well, congratulations to you too. And, yeah, you were our first rave. You were the first our first venue, um, which was, which was back in October 2022, which just feels like a lifetime ago, right when you look at the world now and how, how fast uh, time is flying as well, um, but, yeah, I remember chatting to you shortly after that, after, because we had, you know, but when we first launched, we had no context for what we were trying to achieve. We had no content, no context and no idea. Quite frankly, um, and I've been in events for nearly two decades and I can tell you, launching a clubbing event is very, very different from the corporate background that I, that I come from, and I know that when you were launching the magazine, this was just a whole new world for you too. We spoke really, really early on, and you have been so supportive since we first began, so you know that congratulations very much goes both ways.
Speaker 1:Thank you, my lovely Thank you. Yeah, no, you're right, it was. I absolutely had no idea what I was doing and I remember speaking to you and you were like, yeah, we're just going to, we're just going to figure it out as we go along, and it gave me the confidence to go right. Ok, he seems to know what he's talking about and he doesn't know how to do it. So we're all just going to figure this out as we go along. And look at us now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, we had no blueprint right, like when, when you think about, kind of, you know, sobriety and the pace that it's gathered, it's constantly changing, it's gathered, it's constantly changing, is it's changed so much? And I know that when we first launched the house happiness, when we first very first started talking about it towards the end of 2021 and it, you know, bear in mind, it took us quite a while to get to our first event and everything around sobriety not quite everything, but most things were either geared around kind of your recovery and addiction or mindfulness and well-being, and obviously you had Club Soda that were doing a lot around kind of mindful drinking and such. But when it came to a lot of the content out there and certainly the events, they were quite two track and there wasn't anything for general people, for lifestyle purposes, general people for lifestyle purposes, and so when we talked at first about launching the house happiness, we didn't want to go down either of those routes because it wasn't our story and it wasn't our skill set passion, whatever. When it came to the mindfulness and well-being, it also wasn't my interest. You know I'm not, I'm not a woo-woo person, I'm not on that side of things. People. People were already doing that very well.
Speaker 2:We wanted to create something that everyone wanted to come to. It was just a proper rave, just without alcohol, without drugs, and so something very much for everyone. And we were very clear from the beginning whether Tito or so Be Curious, or just taking a boo snooze and that and that term when we when we I'm not saying we coined the term booze snooze, but it's very something, very something that we, we have built into our brand doesn't matter whether it's for the day, because you're just coming to support your sober mates, whether it's sober october or dry january, or you're just simply taking a break and want to give sober clubbing a try. So it's it kind of.
Speaker 2:It is for everyone, and what we love on our dance floor is you get people from 18 years old up to eight year olds coming to their first ever sober rave and it's really beautiful to see that intergenerational mix of people from all walks of life as well. Obviously, we are a proud and loud queer led and delivered event as well, so we have a beautiful mix of people from, you know, from the lgbtq plus community through to allies, and it's just this wicked melting pot of people on our dance floor that is amazing and I do recommend anybody who is wondering what to expect is to go on to, uh, the house of happiness socials, which obviously I will link to everything uh below, and I will give neil a chance to shout them out.
Speaker 1:But you're very good, you guys, at grabbing pictures and grabbing moments and grabbing connections and then showing those to people. So if anyone's wondering what it's like, obviously Neil's going to tell us about it today. But go and have a look at some of their socials. Go and have a look at some of the videos and really get a feel, and also some of the amazing DJs. We're going to get to all of that because I definitely want to share all of that with Lone Own Nation.
Speaker 1:You've mentioned a little bit about the thought process behind why you set it up, and I want to say that I'm completely with you. It was. I think that was why we first bonded, because it was exactly the same for me with the magazine. It was never about being sober, it was never about being in recovery. It was never about saying that what you're doing is wrong. It was simply about saying, if you decide, you want to drink differently, did you know that? These are the things that you could do whilst you're doing it, whether that is, as you say and I love it for a booze snooze or whether it is for a bit longer yeah, I mean, mine only started as a booze snooze, right, I only gave up for five months and I've still not said forever.
Speaker 2:You know I talk about that all the time. But yeah, it is for, it is for everyone, and I think these spaces that we're creating, whether it's the space in the form of a publication or an event, it is for everyone. And saying to them this is for you too. The definition of sober, you know, while still maintaining the respect for what sobriety is, it has changed and it has shifted and there's space for all of it.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. So take us back a little bit. Wherever you want to start, then, because you've got quite an eclectic background. You said you've worked in events. You mentioned before that you're a public speaker, and you've also said that you had no experience. You know putting on a rave. So, wherever you want to start, tell me what was the journey that led you to go. Do you know what I'm going to put on a club.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it wasn't. You know, the house happiness was very much something that came from me being brought into the conversation purely because of my background in event management. Rightie and Emma, my wonderful co-founders. They became friends on the sober scene and I remember when Janie is one of my best friends in the world, right? So we've we've known each other for about over 16 years now, which is crazy, and we very much met not on the sober scene, and when we think about the venue in which we hold the house happiness, we used to go to that venue back in the day, um, back in back in the 2010s um, very, you know, not sober, and we used to stay, be there for three days in a row. So when janie went sober a year before me, she'd often say to me oh, do you want to come out with my kind of sober friends? And I'd be like now, you're right, you do your sober thing, I'm gonna stick to one, two in and what. What happened?
Speaker 2:I eventually got bored of my own shit and ended up going sober, um, and so a year later, I went to my first sober rave, uh, with Janie, um, and, and quite liked it. Um wasn't my bag in terms of vibe and stuff. So Janie and Emma used to go to all these different sober events and they loved them, but it wasn't quite what they were looking for. And so they had this idea to create something that was a little bit more along the lines of Glitterbox, mighty Hoopla, those kind of vibes, but for sober people, because there wasn't anything like that. Um, and also we kind of like before well, you know, we're all, we're all from the lgbtq plus community, there's nothing really geared towards queer sober people and so we just, you know, emma and janie kind of said to me do you want to come in on this? Because we've got this idea. Emma was a dj, so she found she pursued her love of djing when she kind of went sober. Janie loves the party, and so they asked me if I wanted to be involved to support on the event side of things.
Speaker 2:Now there's me naively thinking that, oh yeah, I've got all these event management skills, it'll be really easy. Nothing prepares you for working with clubbing venues whatsoever. Uh, the corporate turnaround for an email max, couple of days clubs the limit does not exist. So you know a lot of anxiety and you know, for being in the hospitality background, it varies from venue to venue, right, but clubbing venues, they are a rule unto themselves. Um, no shade to our, to our host venue, because love them to bits and they turn it out. But sometimes the communication is hard yeah, yeah, it's hard work, yeah yeah, and it's a totally different.
Speaker 2:It's a totally different sphere to the corporate sphere which I'm, which I'm used to working in, um. So, yeah, we, we got the conversations going, um, and we kind of, really, really kind of like put our heads down and thought what do we want this to feel like? You know, we wanted it to be flamboyant, we wanted there to be dancers, and we kind of thought we started going down this route of creating something quite small. And then we just thought along the way, fuck it, if we're going to do it, let's do it. And we approached our first venue, which was Electro Works, one of London's top clubbing venues. Right, we just decided at that point, we're all in, we're gonna make it, we're gonna make it happen. Yeah, um, and we did um, and we have a couple of setbacks, um, everything from kind of like rail and tube strikes through to the queen die in um was, which, so. So the date shifted and, like you know, and then there was a strike on the actual day of the event, anyway, despite the fact that we changed it, but over 175 people came to our first event and that's huge. It was huge, it was, and and I don't think anything, I don't think we were quite expecting it to be what it was. That wasn't. That was october 2022 and I'll tell you what. Since then we say it every single time after each event that was even better than the last one. Like the vibe, like the energy that people bring just keeps getting better.
Speaker 2:So when you think about back to those first days, it was all very naive. None of us really knew what we were doing. We all knew we had a goal in mind. We were very values driven as well. We knew what we stood for for. We knew that we wanted safe, inclusive fun, a kind of the pillars around of our event. We've got our house rules, which are promoted on our website and on every event registration page. You know zero tolerance for any isms, phobias, any similar bullshit. You know we, we, we re-echo that on our socials very, very regularly, so that we're telling our new audiences all the time what we stand for. And we've just kind of gone from strength to strength since. I mean it is challenging. You know I know we were chatting just a little bit beforehand about the challenges in the hospitality and events and entertainment and tourism. You know it has struggled, particularly since COVID. You know it has struggled, particularly since COVID, but what we have delivered is consistent, reliable events content that hopefully appeals to everyone.
Speaker 1:And I think, I think you absolutely have. You know, we could. We could talk on the challenges that that many industries are facing at the moment, but there's nothing that you and I can do about those right now. But what we can do is we can celebrate the efforts that the three of you have made into creating something that is truly unique.
Speaker 1:Yes, there are other places where people can, you know, go and have a sober drink and listen to some music, but you, literally, I love the fact that your tagline completely fits you are a sober clubbing extravaganza, because it is decadent and it is glamorous and it is exciting and it is full of colour and sound and light and you've got a glitter face paint artist and all these things going on. I remember, actually, after going to that first one and then having, I went with my husband and we had our faces done and I managed to talk him into getting his beard done and then, after we left because obviously your events are during the day we're walking down the street to go to the pub to have some food and everyone's staring at us and I was like, just embrace it absolutely.
Speaker 2:You feel like. You feel like you're when you, when you finish at five o'clock so it's 12 till 5 pm you feel like you're leaving the club at like3 am. It's still. You've still got that vibe like, and that's the thing we chose a proper clubbing environment to give people that feel so. Your loss is pure escapism.
Speaker 2:Everything that we do it hasn't just happened by chance. Everything has been really carefully curated and you know why? Because we give a shit. We created something that we wanted to go to ourselves that wasn't out there at the time. So everything, through to the way people are greeted by us you know there's not many people. You know emma is our resident dj, but janie and I are janie and I host. There's not many people to walk through that door that we don't speak to, either one of us or sometimes both of us, and we always make time to have a chat.
Speaker 2:The glitter artists, the dancers you know everything is very thought through, even the time of day when you think about the sober community. It's often a lot of people coming out by themselves, particularly women. You know that kind of come to these events by themselves as well, that kind of come to these events by themselves as well when you think about the queer community. So there's an element of safety that was considered in the times of day that we chose as well into that daytime rave, that feel, and people say that people want to be home at a decent time. Right, don't get me wrong, I still love clubbing at stupid o'clock.
Speaker 2:I don't do it as much as I used to but it's all been very carefully thought through to create that all-round experience for people, um, and we love the joy um that people get from getting their glitter done with our glitter artists, you know, um, and getting to know our dancers and having a chat, because I think sometimes when you go to events, the promoters, the entertainment is so inaccessible, right, they they're, they're literally many times on a podium and so there's something, and there should be something quite all like and wonderful about them that that creates that extravaganza and that flamboyance.
Speaker 2:But also there's a lot of heart to our events. So when we recruit a new DJ or we recruit a new dancer, we make a big fuss of them on social so that people can get to know them before they walk through the door, so that there isn't a hierarchy. You're never going to get a VIP area at our events, because everyone on our dance floor is on the same level. It is a place for everyone is on the same level. It is a place for everyone and we love that our DJs, our dancers, our drag, our glitter artists get proper involved in conversations with everyone who walks through our door. It's a really loving place and, like I said, there's a lot of heart behind what we do.
Speaker 1:That sounds wonderful. So you've mentioned DJs, glitter artists. Do your best. You have a podcast yourself which you'll mention, so you're very good at painting word pictures For those who are listening. Take us through an event. So, from the moment we arrive, what can we expect to see, feel and experience at a House of Happiness extravaganza?
Speaker 2:Oh, I love this. So, yeah, and yeah, I'm a storyteller. You know I like to paint a story. I really believe that if people can see themselves in the story that you are trying to create, they will buy into what you're doing. They'll buy into you, and sometimes it is about being a little vulnerable and putting yourself out there as well, but no, I love a story. So what can you expect when you arrive at the house? Well, firstly, you are invited to our pre-meet. You know whether you are part of a big sober crew or a solo, a solo raver, like many of our people are. You know people that come from traditionally big drinking circles that don't have tons of sober friends. You are invited to our pre-meet.
Speaker 2:Our pre-meet takes place an hour before each event, so from 11 am to 12 pm, and in our London events it's actually just outside the venue where we host, where we hold the rave, and we we bring croissants and pastries for people gluten free and vegan, because we consider it like that and and people just get together and have a chat. We do a bit of hosting, we introduce people to each other and it's really about kind of giving people that opportunity to make new sober buddies, um, but also ease their nerves if they are coming on their own before they hit that dance floor, so that they are either made make a couple of friends before they hit the dance floor, um, and they're not going in there feeling like I've come something by my own, I'm not going to have anyone to speak to. So, um, yeah, um, the venue isn't technically open till 12. So we say to people grab a coffee from, from one of the shops on the corner I'm not going to promote, promote the one that's next door, but grab a coffee, grab a tea on your way in. We'll provide the pastries and let's have a bloody good chat and get to know each other. So that's the first thing that happens.
Speaker 2:Before all of that happens, janie and I arrive really early and Janie always poses for a picture like this, um, outside the venue and that goes on our socials, just so that people know what the venue looks like. Okay, we try and create this guided journey as to what people are doing. 12 o'clock hits the doors to open and you are hit by lights and music straight from the off. Uh, from 12 we generally have a mixtape just while people start warming up. Uh, when you go to the right, you've got a fully stocked alcohol-free bar. We do not fuck around with our bar. Like you know, denise you and I have had conversations about kombucha before actually a little bit. I'm actually a little bit swayed on kombucha since those early conversation I am a little bit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's a few that I quite like, but you have a fully stocked alcohol-free bar with a decent selection of adult drinks. You've got your spirits. You've got your beers. You've got your alcohol-free guinness, um. You've also got your energy drinks, um, and your soft drinks as well, if you want those, um. But yes, and we've. We've just introduced free spirit at our events as well, so you can grab a free spirit livener and I know we'll come on to drink favour drink options later. So I was really chuffed when we got free spirit. You can get your cans of goat energy drink as well. So you've got a fully stocked alcohol free bar.
Speaker 2:The cloakroom is open and the glitter station is open from 12. And the glitter is free all day. And what I really love is when people line up for the glitter station is open from 12 and the glitter is free all day. And what I really love is when people line up for the glitter and they kind of make, for you know, you've got probably half the people that rock up early will hit the dance floor straight away, um, and then the other half just hit the glitter station. And seeing people make friends while they're getting their faces glittered up is really, really beautiful.
Speaker 2:Um one o'clock, our first DJs come on and we generally have about three to four DJs throughout. We have go-go dancers doing sets, we have our sober icon, drag queen showgirl, heidi Licious, running around greeting people, and it's just a really fun day. I'm there, I'm snapping, I'm getting content, I'm taking pictures of people with my selfie light. Then we have our photographer come. There are confetti cannons going off. You know people, people suddenly like they'll start to feel a little bit brave and then they'll hit the podiums themselves.
Speaker 2:Once the dancers are taking a break and it's non-stop from 12 till 5 hey, we don't cut a break. It's literally boom, boom, boom. The music is blaring for those hours. That's not to say you can't take a break, it's literally boom, boom, boom. The music is blaring for those hours. That's not to say you can't take a break.
Speaker 2:We have a really comfy seating area, just where the glitter artists are, so that people can put their feet up. And as you go outside our venue there are food vendors where people can grab a bite to eat, refuel and then come back in and hit the dance floor. And when it all finishes at five o'clock, quick pack down and then we generally go over to the food market and those who want to come come over to have a bite to eat before heading home, and that's yeah, that's it. It's an action packed day but, as I said, it's all very, very considered in terms of this all round experience. But so so much fun. You meet so many many different people, faces with all, with all such incredible stories to share, um, and people love a chat. People love a chat that is.
Speaker 1:I did say you'd paint a word picture and you certainly have that sounds. I mean, I've been so I know what it's like, but just listening to you explain it I'm like that is a hell of an experience.
Speaker 2:I want to go yeah, I mean, you know it from the from the off, from the social media messaging we put in the build up to the event through to the email communications on the day, and I haven't even got going on the themes yet. Like you, look around that audience and there's so much colour. Now our themes are loose. Right, people can interpret the themes however they want. Right, people can interpret the themes however they want. But people love the theme and we like to think that our themes bring a little bit of extra fun and a bit of kind of again that flamboyance to the event. And we always say to people you know, whether you adhere to the theme or not, we don't care, as long as you're comfortable and having the best time on our dance floor. But some of our most popular themes people have got. People have gone all out on the costumes. Like I did not think that outer space would be the most popular theme. People went wild for outer space. They absolutely loved it. Yes, yes, they really loved it. We I mean janie was, um, a raving princess. Leia, which was random, I mean I was an astronaut, but people went wild with it. Um, we had one shortly afterwards that was um, feathers and fur um, and people really loved that one. We had disco recently. We had neon was our new year party. We had our first neon party back in january, on the 4th of january. It was so popular that we've we immediately put in a new year party for 2026. That's how popular it was and we'll probably end up doing another neon one. So people love that.
Speaker 2:They always come with a caveat as well. We're always quite mindful with our themes as well. So when we said disco themed, we were really really clear no afros, unless that's part of your heritage. Because as an event that builds itself, as a safe, inclusive event that has no space for isms, phobias, any shit, it's clubbing, but it's clubbing with a conscience as well. We don't want anyone to come and feel alienated or isolated because of something like a theme or someone's choice or inconsiderate. So we always we're always quite uh we try and be as informative and helpful as possible along the way that's wonderful.
Speaker 1:That's wonderful and it also means if you do that theme again, I can go and be the only person with an afro you absolutely can.
Speaker 2:You absolutely can, but we do you know what we also did with we? Sorry, we did it. We did it with feathers and fur. We were really really specific. No real fur, right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So we always try and consider for every attendee that's coming and I think what you do, you do really well as well, because when I went to my second event with you um, I'm not one for getting dressed up myself. I always get it wrong. I always feel like I look like a pillock. That's just my own, my own issues. But I went and I didn't feel at all out of place just because I wasn't dressed up. You know, I was still greeted with just as much warmth. I was still brought onto the dance floor. I remember dancing with random people and you know so it doesn't I like that. It doesn't matter. It's just going and expressing yourself and having a good time. And if yourself happens to be somebody like me who's just comfortable in jeans and a t-shirt, then wear jeans and a t-shirt absolutely.
Speaker 2:I always say jeans, t-shirt, favorite little black dress, pajamas, whatever you want to come in, I am still gonna be there with my little light, capturing a picture of you from our socials, regardless of what were you wearing, because what do I care? I care about seeing happy, smiley, glittery faces on our dance floor. And hey, not everyone likes glitter. You find it for ages. My pug poops glitter. Do you know what I mean? I like glitter, but not everyone does listen. As long as you're having a good time, we're having a good time. That's a win for us, regardless of what, whatever you've come in. So yeah, it's, it's just. I'm really glad to hear that, because that's exactly what the message that we want to give across you come as you, you come as your whole self and be free on that dance floor. That's all we give a shit about absolutely.
Speaker 1:You've mentioned the phrase in our venue a few times, so I normally do this towards the end, but just if people are listening and they're chomping at the bit to know where this takes place, if they want to know, if they can get there. So where? What is your current venue at the moment of happiness?
Speaker 2:so we hold our venue, hold our events at fire. That is our London, um, or at least for the rest of this year. Um, as I said earlier, I used to spend a lot of time in fire definitely not sober, um, and getting a sober event under fire's roof, um, is a big deal like when you think about fire, when you think about those legendary arches and the kind of parties it is famed for, right, um, getting a sober event under their, under their roof was something that we're really proud of. It's something that we really want to do. We wanted that dark, grimy, proper clubbing event.
Speaker 2:Feel, if anyone comes and moans about the toilets, I'm like you're in a club, what do you expect? This is, you know, this is what. This is what we're supposed to get, um, so, yeah, no moaning about that, please. It is a dirty, dark, grimy club, um, but exactly it's what people want that proper, proper clubbing event. I'm not even going to call it a clubbing experience anymore. It's proper clubbing. It is a night out out, it's just during the day, with no alcohol, including a grimy club. And that's our London venue. And we recently obviously held our first event in Manchester and we held that at Area, which is the sister bar to FIRE, so I have to say FIRE and Orange Nation it falls under. They've just been so supportive. They take our guidance when it comes to alcohol free drinks and getting those in as well, on what's popular. Obviously they have to play ball with their retailers and the companies they use, but they've been so supportive, that's amazing, that's amazing, that's amazing.
Speaker 1:So you did the Manchester event, uh, not that long ago. Tell me a bit about the decision to to reach out into other parts of the UK. What was it like? How did you find the venue and how did it all go?
Speaker 2:it went brilliantly, um, and we and we had a great turnout, um, and it was so well received, uh, you know everything. I've been in the events industry for a long time and I get really bored of how London centric it is, and I say that as a person from London as well. So, when you think about, we were looking at the kind of people that come to our events, and so many people were coming to our event from the north, and obviously there are some sober events up north as well north, um, and obviously there are some sober events up north as well. I know flamingo af is no longer around, but you know um steph is doing events up there, who was put one part of flamingo af. Um, they've got dry wave up there, but we were getting a lot of people coming from the north to our events, um, and so we thought, well, manchester has a wicked clubbing scene. It has tons of sober people in and around Manchester. Why not, let's give it a go?
Speaker 2:And the venue were really, really supportive. But what we were able to do, having had that first event, is it was really beautiful to be able to literally pick up the House of Happiness, take it to somewhere and replicate exactly that same feel-good vibe, that and and all of the things around that, um, the warmth, the energy, the love in the room, um, and I think that's that was really telling for us, that we were like we know who we are, we know what we're, what we're trying to put out. We don't know what we're trying to put out there. We know what we're putting out there.
Speaker 1:Yeah I love that. I think that's wonderful and I love that you are branching out. I'm a londoner myself, um, but I do think you know everything happens here. You're right, it's very, very london centric, um, and the rest of the uk wants to do stuff as well and when I uh talk about events and things, people will say do you know anything that's happening near me?
Speaker 1:is there anything happening anywhere else? And I think it's important that we spread this out because it's a london thing, you know. Deciding that you want to go and have a great time without getting pissed is not centralized to just one part of the country so, no, it definitely shouldn't be, but but it is a lot of this, a lot of the time when it.
Speaker 2:You know, as I say, my background in events, most conferences are, when you think about the big events, industry, trade shows and stuff. You know, generally they're situated at excel, like it is very, it is very london-centric and I think that, um, I think sometimes it comes down to the limitations with venues as well. You know, getting venues on board with stocking alcohol free can be a challenge, um, for us. We strive to be an inclusive event, but finding accessible venues is often hard. So our manchester venue isn't fully accessible and that's a real shame. Like we, we always strive to be inclusive and and um, and one of our, one of some of the wanted to come to our event, reached out and just said you know, you say you're inclusive, but actually you've chosen a venue that isn't inclusive.
Speaker 2:Now, we hands up, held our hands up to that and it was featured on our website and I went around the houses trying desperately to find a way to make that event as accessible as I could and I couldn't.
Speaker 2:So I think it's about recognising where, always, where you can improve and where you can bring more people in as well, um, and bring more up people on the journey with you, um, but it's also about knowing that if what you want isn't there, create it. But also reach out to people for support and we've touched on how support if we we've been with each other, but there's so many sober people, uh, people in the sober community and the sober sphere who would be just as supportive. So if anyone's thinking about creating something, reach out to me. I'm happy to talk it through with you, um, because I know we wouldn't have been able to do what we did without the support of drinks brands, who provided us with shit ton of free stock for our first couple of events. People like yourself, club Soda, who really help spread the word. So, yeah, reach out to people, create what you need.
Speaker 1:Definitely, it's always much easier when you do it with someone. Don't try and do everything by yourself. It's not going to work as well.
Speaker 2:No, we're a collaborative. You know, sabre, people are very giving, very collaborative on the whole. And yeah, you don't have, you don't have to struggle as much as you think you might.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'd like to have a chat a bit about the challenges and triumphs that you might have faced bringing something like this to a community which you said beforehand. The LGBTQ plus community doesn't have a lot of space for sober events and it doesn't have a lot of. I know we've spoken about this before and whether it's that feeling of acceptance, whether there's a deeper rooted issue as to why alcohol is so ingrained in the community. How did you find introducing this? You know, obviously you guys are a queer-led uh proudly so and rightly so queer-led initiative. Um, was it a challenge? Did you find there was a lot of pushback? Or was it a case of people going, oh my god.
Speaker 2:Finally, I think it was a case. It was more a case of, finally, you know, there's always, there's always trepidation at first. Are we going to have a big enough audience? Um, and that was, I think that was a lot of. The biggest thing was, like you know, there's always, there's always trepidation at first. Are we going to have a big enough audience? Um, and that was, I think that was a lot of. The biggest thing was, like you know, are we going to attract enough queer people to this event to deliver an event? Um, and so that was very much the the thinking behind making sure that it was for everyone, whether part of the lgbtq plus community or allies, um, but there was one instance that really, really stood out to me, and I think it was.
Speaker 2:It was on our third event, which was, uh, which was love shack themed. Um and I, and it was, it was a gorgeous event, um, and we'd moved to fire at that point and someone come up to me, um, in tears, and said, um, I didn't think I'd ever get to, I didn't think I'd ever experience this again. Um, they had been through addiction and recovery, um, and so didn't think that those spaces were for them anymore. Um, and I think that that really hit home quite early on around the importance of of what we're doing um, beautiful, and, and there's been lots of conversations like that. We share feedback regularly.
Speaker 2:Um, and there's there's lots of conversations like that. We share feedback regularly and there's lots of conversations around, you know, people saying this is the warmest, the warmest, most inclusive space I've ever been to. We have a lot of people from the trans and non-binary community come to our events again because they know it's a safe space, because we're really really fucking clear on our messaging that this is a space for all identities, um, no matter of who you love and how you identify. So we, we do hear that um a lot, and I think that's probably the fact that the fact that we can say this house is your house, our dance floor is your dance floor, and genuinely mean that. I think it helps to overcome some of those barriers that people might feel going to a regular clubbing event that isn't sober, particularly if they have a past with alcohol and drugs and I think that's wonderful and I and I do, like you, know that you say it is um queer and allies.
Speaker 1:So you're not again with what you're doing, you're not restricting it and you're not saying that it's only for queer people. You're saying it's for everyone. Yeah, as long as you're not again with what you're doing, you're not restricting it and you're not saying that it's only for queer people. You're saying it's for everyone, as long as you're within our umbrella, of just giving some love and giving some respect and, as you say, keeping your isms away.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, no, zero fucking tolerance for them. But even when you think about someone like me, I don't have an addiction or recovery story, right, that's not, not, that's not my story. It's not, it's not. It's so. Other people might feel differently about their interpretation of my story, but I do not. That's not how I identify.
Speaker 2:But when you think about it, I can still. There's a real privilege here. I can still go to regular clubbing events, right, and I'm not tempted to drink because it's you know, if I did, it wouldn't disrupt my whole life. I'd probably be really, really fucking disappointed in myself, but it wouldn't throw my whole life into pieces again. That's a privilege. However, I still want to go to a queer, sober space because I know I don't have to be around drunk people. So the space is for everyone. The space is for people like me who have given up for a lifestyle reason. The space is for people who do have that addiction and recovery story. The space is for people who want to be an ally to the queer community. You want to be an ally to their sober friends. So it's, it's very, very inclusive.
Speaker 1:I think that's wonderful and I think that one of the great things about the mindful, sober, curious, non-drinking, alcohol-free, whatever you want to call it in this space is that I found that when people aren't necessarily as marred by feeling grumpy themselves because they're hungover or you know they did something stupid the night before, there's a lot more space in people's hearts and minds to be more considerate of other people and to be kind and to have a nice time. I realized that actually I'm not a jackass. I was just really grumpy because I put myself in a really shitty situation yes, there's, there is so much joy.
Speaker 2:I think that, like, what I get so frustrated about is this rhetoric around sober being boring, right, and I always say to people you think sober is boring, come to one of our events.
Speaker 2:But you're right, people's hearts are open. I think when you create that space, when you kind of like set the ground rules for what you want your space to be whether that's the tone, the vibe, the conduct, whatever it is I love seeing the relationships develop on and off the dance floor at the house of happiness, you know, and when you see those friendships really, really blossom, um, outside of our events. We're so proud of that as well. It's not just about ticket sales, it's about creating something for people, and I I think me and janie and emma often talk about it um, we, I never thought I'd go into the House of Happiness and make a ton more friends, right, I thought I'd, because that's not my experience of working in events, in corporate events, but what I've made is this entire sober friendship group, loads of different groups and loads of different relationships and people that I genuinely have lifelong friendships with now as a result of launching this, and so that is is that goes far beyond just ticket sales and getting people onto the dance floor amazing.
Speaker 1:Um, this podcast is all about low, no, unlike drinks, drinkers and drinking. So I'm going to circle back to the drinks for a little bit, because you've mentioned a couple of things which I find really interesting. Um, I know that you have a quite a range, because you've mentioned that you cover a few different types of drinks. Could you just go into a little bit more detail for me about what sort of drinks are available at your events and how they're positioned in terms of people that come along and you know, if somebody felt like being cheeky and going, oh, I might just have a glass of wine, you know what, what happens there in terms of the bar and how you got that all set up and managed for people yeah, so there's no alcohol at our bar?
Speaker 2:there's, there's none. It is a fully stocked alcohol-free bar. Fantastic, uh. We work really closely with our venue to make sure that all posters of alcohol are taken down, any tv screens, any display bottles, whether that's your big, big moe's or fridges full of smell of ice, whatever. Yeah, and that is the. The fridges are either emptied or if something can't be emptied, it has a bag over it has like a black bag, over it is covered up with a tablecloth or a bag and so that people can't see it.
Speaker 2:Um, on display on the optics you will see a range of spirits and everything from kind of strict vodka through to liars, through to Miss Coconut, and then and then your free spirit. So you've got all your different kind of, you've got your spirits laid out and then you'll just have fridges full of different beers, soft drinks, energy drinks. So there is an alcohol in our actual venue where we hold our rave. Um, again, not just a ridiculous addiction or recovery things. We want to show that you can have a fully stocked alcohol-free bar with alcohol and still have a range. Um, we again, we work with fire. They print off a menu with all the different options because I think sometimes people they don't know what sober drinks are. On option, yeah.
Speaker 2:They don't know what's available. So FIRE, print off a menu that basically has everything, the range of things, and they group it with under ciders, beers, wines, proseccos, so that people have that full choice. That full choice, um, there are. There are bars outside because obviously it's part of a food garden. So there are drinks outside if people, if people, um, if people that are not our event want them. But generally, if someone comes to our event, they don't go outside to buy a drink. Um, and we're really clear, you know, if you, if you feel the need to go and have a drink during our event, just don't come or don't have a drink beforehand because it's not the space for you. There's enough places to do that. We've found, on the whole, people have been really, really respectful and it's not to say it hasn't happened, but what has happened is when we've found people who've just said you can't come back in because this is not the space for you. So we're really, really clear is a hundred percent alcohol and drug free space I love that.
Speaker 1:I like that you've um, you've made it clear as to what you're trying to achieve and what you're doing and the lengths that you're going to go to to make that a space where people can feel confident, because for me, it's all about making sure that people are comfortable and confident in their choice to to drink less. And if you are somebody who wants to go clubbing, for example, but is worried about being triggered because clubbing is uh, it's, it's a feeling you know it happens inside of you.
Speaker 1:You hear the music, you feel the bass, you see that the the lights going down, you know if you've got things like glitter cannons or smoke machines, it takes you back and to a to a time when you were doing this on a regular basis and at that time you may have been doing it with drinks, you may have been doing it with drugs, and so for those people who want to know that they can go and not or if they get triggered to feel like they want to have a drink that they're not going to be able to be tempted to just go to the bar and have this or that. But you're going to make it easy for people and I like that because at your event I did see you had menus printed and it was so good to see people looking at the menu and be able to make a choice without having to feel awkward saying to the bartender um, do you have, do you have anything like this, you know? So people could feel confident in that.
Speaker 2:I think that's because that's so. That's where so many people fall down right when they're doing kind of, when they're doing dry January or sober October or they're just giving you know, sober, curious life a try. It's just easy. We snap back into what we know so easily. And when you're put on the spot, what do you want to drink? Oh, go on, just have one. You know that's just not an option. We just take that option away for people. It just makes it easier.
Speaker 1:And you, you know, that's just not an option. We just take that option away for people. It just makes it easier. And you've got a really good range as well. So you mentioned you've got vodka, you've got spirits, so you've got, uh, you know whether it was a vodka or gin or a risky rum alternative.
Speaker 2:No, vodka, red bull. You know people can get all your regular drinks. They're just not alcohol in that's fantastic.
Speaker 1:That's fantastic. I think that what you guys are have done and are doing that what you guys are have done and are doing is is phenomenal, because I don't know of any other spaces that do what you do, especially not the way that you do it. Um, you mentioned that you are in Manchester. Now are there any thoughts of of going anywhere else?
Speaker 2:so I mean, we're going back to Manchester, okay, um, and so that. So that's definitely on the cards For the summer. We've actually not released the date yet, so this is a bit of an inclusive, but it is going to be taking place in the summer and we're going to get the date out there shortly, and it is going to be a Pride party, because it falls during Pride season and you know, manchester massive, massive LGBTQ plus scene why not for a Pride party? Our Pride party is going to be in london in june, um, so, yes, I think that it's about being realistic, right with what we can achieve. We all do this on top of full-time jobs, so it and it's expensive to do, as well, like you know, these events, they don't make a ton of money. We're not in it for the money, um and so, um, we have to be able to cover all the costs and and we're throwing an ultimate sober clubbing extravaganza that doesn't come cheap, right? You've got the glitter artist, you've got the photographer, you've got all the dancers, the DJs. So what we always want to guarantee is consistency and a really good time. So we would love to be able to roll this out in all the main cities, for example, but unless we find a venue that we can work with, that work that works well for the event. You know, it's about building up our audiences, making sure that we've got a solid audience base.
Speaker 2:So, but what I will say is we're always open to collaborations so people can always reach out to us. So since we joined, since we started, we've not only delivered a whole range of events our own events but we've also featured in loads of collaborations as well. We host a, we host a pride, we host a pride party on on pride in london day with club soda, and we've supported the first ever pride swim. We've done the london marathon. We did our first festival last year, um, we've we've worked with the london transport museum. So we are always up for collaborations, whether that's in london or outside of london. So, and there's a couple of people, um, in various different cities who we're kind of scoping out working with. So you never know where we'll pop up. We're always open to collaboration. But hey, world domination would be the dream, right? Um?
Speaker 2:But what I will say is people have to buy tickets. You know, because what happens to these spaces is is what we've seen with many kind of grassroots venues in london. It's certainly what we've seen on the queer scene in london and the big cities. If people don't buy tickets, if they don't show up, these events can't continue to run. So we have to know that we've got our basic, our proper basis, sorted first before we decide to go elsewhere, because otherwise it just becomes not sustainable. And I think that's a lot of the problem with sober, with many different movements from the, from the well-being through to the sober scene, is that people go all guns blazing but there isn't always sustainable and we want to be around for a decent amount of time, so we have to be realistic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're right. You know it's all well and good saying that this is a fantastic idea and people you know follow me all day long on social media but what really makes a difference is you actually putting your hands in your pocket, buying a ticket, coming to the event, buying a drink from the bar so that the venue makes money as well, and a drink from the bar so that the venue makes money as well and it's worthwhile for them. Because I think that's one thing that people don't think about. They'll look at you doing this event and and not recognize that actually you're doing this in partnership with the venue and that there are expenses that the venue has and that it needs to be worthwhile for them. And I think there's a knock-on effect as well is that if venues like FIRE, like in Manchester and anywhere else that you go, see that an event without alcohol can bring in a good crowd who will spend good money, they will put more alcohol-free drinks and options and events on so that people can keep coming back right absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 2:You need to. You need to really, really kind of cater for the audience that you, that you're, that you're serving, but the audience is a two is that two-way partnership and I think a lot of this and um, it comes down to the events industry as well, and the events industry and tourism and hospitality need to get behind low and known and sober events more. Now I sit across, uh, I sit across the events industry. I sit across diversity, equity, inclusion, and they're sitting in the sober sphere right. So I have a really unique viewpoint of all of those things and within those things, I sit in events, I'm a public speaker and I host, so I have a really cool. I really love the, the viewpoint that I get of all those things and what I see is the events hospitals, hospitality, tourism just not getting behind it the way that it should.
Speaker 2:So I recently host a main stage, a big expo in Excel, and they had zero alcohol-free drinks other than your typical warm orange juice and a couple of bottles of Coke. That was literally back in February, and now I was hosting an event. I was hosting a session on stage talking all about belonging. I won't stay at an event anymore unless there's a decent option for me, and I'm not talking about a glass of elderflower fizz. I'm talking about a decent, decent alcohol free option. So I think the events industry need to get behind low, no, and sober spaces and mindsets more, because I've been in events for nearly 20 years now and it hasn't really got any better.
Speaker 2:There are some stellar people who do it really well. A big shout out to a couple of people Diageo, as they should, but also Clifford Chance, which is a law firm, and I went to an event there last year and I've worked with Clifford Chance since and they have absolutely nailed it. Like they had. They had two or three different different different wine versions. They had loads of different ciders, plus they had your cans of kombucha and your kind of more healthy kind of soft drinks as well.
Speaker 2:So there are some people that are doing it well, but it's just not enough drinks as well. So there are some people that are doing it well, but it's just not enough. Um, and when I was doing, I was doing a little bit of research, um on this, and there was a study by the cipd recently, um, and it said 84 of employers um, uh, they're off their official work. Events feature and prioritize alcohol, um, and they feel that alcohol is a major selling point of their event. That should not be. You should not need alcohol to get. You should not need alcohol to get people to your event. Your content, what the messaging, the story that you're trying to tell, should be strong enough to get people there.
Speaker 1:It's interesting because a lot of the numbers that you see in various places are all talking about how things are changing and how things are moving on and you can get more alcohol free drinks in pubs now and they've got more events, but actually in reality, is it just that there, as you say, is a small pocket who are doing it really well and the majority still have a long way to go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. I don't drink beer and I don't drink gin. Right now. Every pub that I go into, well, they'll have an alcohol-free beer, they'll have an alcohol-free gin, but I'm just out there with my coke or if I'm feeling a little bit where, hey, I'll have a red ball right, but but that's it, because most of them are just so like oh, everyone drinks beer, everyone drinks gin, absolutely not so when when it comes to pubs. But when it comes to big events, small events, we're still nowhere near where we need to be. It's getting better, but it's a you're right, nail on the head small pocket.
Speaker 2:And when you think about workplace environments and this prioritizing alcohol, the ramifications of workplaces and work on workplace culture and workplace conduct and behavior, from that, never mind productivity is huge and so it just makes sense. It makes. It makes sense from a productivity and a business sense of view to look at your workplace culture and your policies around drinking and alcohol, but from a belonging and inclusion. We know that more and more people are not drinking. So when you think about belonging and inclusion, stop prioritizing alcohol, because you're not just excluding people that have given up for health or lifestyle or addiction or recovery. You're excluding people on parenting duties or pregnancy. You're excluding people who are going through the menopause, people for religious reasons. So there's again. The definition of sobriety has changed, but there's so many industries that need to just get get on board with it so what do you think?
Speaker 1:what? Where do we start to tackle this? I mean, I don't know. Start is the right word, because obviously things are beginning to change. Is this down to me as an employee to go to my boss and say hey boss, you know we're doing an event. Where's my drinks? Or is this down to the boss to go and say does anybody want alcohol free, or should I just get booze? What's the route that we need to take?
Speaker 2:I think it's again with everything. It's a collaboration, right. Right, you know, if I go to an event and there's not a decent option in whatever feedback or evaluation or whatever kind of decision maker I can collar, I'm probably not because I've been in events. I'm not going to collar them during the event and complain because that's just not, it's not etiquette, right. But afterwards I'll say just want to flag. There was no decent alcohol-free options for me. So I'll say just want to flag. There was no decent alcohol free options for me. So I think it's a two-way thing.
Speaker 2:But like anything when it comes to inclusion whether that's around kind of awareness on issues around gender and sexuality or menopause or age or whatever there is enough education out there for organizations to, and managers and decision makers to get into the and not just education public discourse around these things. You shouldn't have to be begging to be included. When it comes to an alcohol-free drink, I went to a massive award ceremony, um, back in March and I listed my dietary requirements as alcohol-free, would like our, and still nothing on my table for me. I had to pay for a coke no right.
Speaker 2:So even when organizations are asking, they're not seeing it through because they're not taking it seriously yeah, yeah, absolutely I.
Speaker 1:I reminds me I went to an award ceremony. I was up for a nomination for the magazine uh, a while ago. Uh and um, I went and we got there and had welcome glasses of champagne and everything. And I knew I hadn't won because when I asked if they had anything alcohol-free to drink, the answer was no. You have to go and ask someone. And then I went to ask at the bar, which was just a table, you know, as it happens, a table with a black tablecloth, with rows and rows of fever tree sodas, you know coke, a tonic and a lemonade, uh, and they had to track down a manager, to go and track down a bottle of alcohol-free beer from the back of some fridge, in the back of some function room, somewhere else, which he brought out in a really big wine tulip glass because they didn't have anything else. It's like this isn't that difficult, you know, it's not that difficult just have some options in a fridge and then put them on the table.
Speaker 2:It's the same thing that you're doing, yeah, but just a slightly different product line yeah, janie works in the travel industry and she's had it at the same venue for the past two years running where she's where they literally just have nothing, not even water. So it's, it's, it's um, it's just, it's just slack and actually there's, it's just not good enough slack, yeah absolutely.
Speaker 1:uh, you uh mentioned a couple of times that if you're at an event, then if you're at a venue and they don't have anything decent to drink, then you're not sticking around, and I love that you are a very confident young man, you are quite happy to say, though this isn't good enough.
Speaker 1:You're not serving me, I'm leaving, but I wonder because you've written some amazing articles for Loner Drinker magazine.
Speaker 1:I wonder because you've written some amazing articles for Loner Drinker magazine. You covered many, many topics, including how people can face their social life when reducing or removing alcohol in any way, shape or form. So I wanted to bend your ear on that a little bit. I wondered if you had any tips for people who are still going out and still wanting to hang out with their friends. But perhaps, as you mentioned about some of your guests House of Happiness, they might. For people who are still going out and still wanting to hang out with their friends, but perhaps, as you mentioned about some of your guests house of happiness, they might be the only one in their group who is not drinking, or they might still want to go to the pub because they like going to the pub but they don't want to consume alcohol. What do you say to those people who are looking to still enjoy that social aspect, but do it with less alcohol, but might not feel as confident as you do?
Speaker 2:hey, I mean, it hasn't always been that way. Um, firstly, I'll take the young man. Thank you very much.
Speaker 2:Um at 42 um younger than me still um, hey, what, what the fuck is age, you know, especially when you're on a dance floor, you know it is. It literally just doesn't matter. Um, but I am so, firstly, it hasn't always been that way, right, you know, I found my voice and I, you know, I alluded to it in the recent article that I've written for you where I just don't really want to be around drunk people that much anymore, but obviously I also don't want to cut off my social life completely. So what I have found is that I will either find a wingman, so that might be one of my friends and this was very much in the early days Like luckily, you know, janie was my best friend and she'd given up alcohol. But sometimes people don't have that. So learn to lean on the people that you can lean on, in which case say to them you know, I'm feeling a bit uncomfortable about this, lean on. In which case say to them you know I'm feeling a bit uncomfortable about this, can we have a get out plan? Or, you know, I'm going to set this time. Can we leave together, or can you help me, kind of like, you know, get out of any situation at that time.
Speaker 2:I've got to the point now where, with some of my friends, I will literally say no to do something, to doing stuff, or I'll say do you know what? What I'm going to come for one or two, see how I get on. I'm probably not going to stick around for long if I know that it's going to be a boozy affair, um, because it's, and that might be, um, that might be a kid's birthday party or it might just be a catch-up, but either way I'm not going to stick around. If it's going to be centered around alcohol, um, and then it's asking those people if they'll come along with you to a sober space. And yes, by all means, come to the House of Happiness, but there are other sober spaces out there for you as well. So try what's out there. And if there is nothing out there, if you've got the spoons to do it, create something yourself. But one thing that I always said, from the very beginning when I started to suss this out, is um, be prepared to sit with this the discomfort a little bit, because actually sometimes what I've done is I've gone home and I felt really shit about myself because I'm like, actually I was having a really good time. Yes, it, yes, some people were a little bit annoying, but actually I've kind of gone home and now I'm just at home feeling sorry for myself.
Speaker 2:Sometimes it is about sitting through the discomfort and knowing that you are going through a period of change. Right, you know it's not. It might not feel comfortable Initially. You are learning to navigate this whole way of being around yourself, being around other people in these new environments, without alcohol as a crutch. So sometimes, sitting with the discomfort and pushing through it, it's the same as when you start exercising.
Speaker 2:Right, you're flexing a new skill, a new mindset and Brené Brown talks about it a lot and she calls it the three f's. Fucking first time and the fucking first time you do it. It's probably going to be hard, you're probably not going to be do very be good at it and it's probably going to be quite uncomfortable. But actually sometimes there's sometimes we need to sit with the discomfort. I talk about that a lot when it comes to getting your head around diversity and inclusion and allyship. Right is that? Sometimes when you you have to get comfortable with being uncomfortable because soon it's not it, it won't be uncomfortable anymore. So sometimes it's worth pushing through and thinking oh, actually they might have been drunk, but I still managed to have a really good time yeah yeah, absolutely right saying that recognize when time is done and go home.
Speaker 2:You know don't you know, do an irish goodbye, do whatever you need, but um, but, but. But look but, look after yourself and and reach out to people, because people do want to help you. And that might be a friend who's a drinker. It might be someone who, who you meet through the sober community and throw yourself into the sober community because everyone's friendly. But do, um, give yourself a chance to like the things that you used to like, because you can still like them without alcohol I love that.
Speaker 1:that's, that's a lovely sentiment and I think that that's really good advice as well, because it does change.
Speaker 1:It completely changes, you know, I remember the first few times going out with some of my best friends and they might still be drinking and you can see them when you're not drinking. You can see how the alcohol is starting to impact and take effect and your first instincts might be to actually no, I'm just going to leave. But actually, if they're still your friends and you still care about them and you still want to spend time with them, then there are ways that you can do that. But yeah, there'll be a cut off point. There'll be a moment where it's like, ok, now I think I've had enough, but you guys crack on and tell me all about it tomorrow.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and make yourself OK with that, because you're probably not missing out on anything.
Speaker 1:Not by that stage.
Speaker 2:no, but not by that stage. No, but like you said, like you pointed out at the beginning, my Instagram bio says still smashing on the dance floor, Yep yep.
Speaker 2:I wasn't always sure that I'd still be smashing on the dance floor. Right, it took me a while of being sober to get to that point where I still smash it on the dance floor or a podium, or when I'm walking around the supermarket. Because what mash it on the dance floor or a podium? Or when I'm walking around the supermarket? Because what have I discovered? I just love singing and dancing and being a dick like.
Speaker 1:So you know, you can do all that without alcohol and I will say, people, if you're listening, sober dancing, you might think that you need a bit of Dutch courage to get up there. But there is nothing quite like letting loose to your favorite tunes, whether that is clubbing, whether that is dancing around your living room to a bit of yaz, whether that is listening to your old school rave stuff while you're cleaning.
Speaker 1:Whatever it is that you're doing, there is nothing like dancing and just letting yourself go and knowing that you're still going to feel fantastic afterwards absolutely, you can dance anywhere, and I do right, let's tell people where they can find out about um house of happiness yourself as well, because I realize I've kept you talking for ages, but you've got a few other projects that you're working as well. You've got your own sub stack, so there's lots of places that people can connect with you. Let's start with House of Happiness and getting those tickets in people's hands. Where should they go to find them?
Speaker 2:Yes, please, please, do come and party with us. We would love to rave the day away with you. Yes, please, please, do come and party with us. We would love to rave the day away with you. You can buy tickets from the houseofhappinesscouk, which is our website. We launched it last year and it's been wonderful seeing new audiences come through as a result of having the website.
Speaker 2:The website has all of our values. You can check out pictures of previous events and it's got all of our upcoming events on there. You can get to know a little bit about myself, janie and Emma on there as well. On there, you can get to know a little bit about myself, janie and emma on there as well. So that's the house of happinesscouk. And follow us on instagram at house of happiness official, where you can stay up to date with all of our events. You can meet our dancers, djs, on there. We give all of them like a little bit of a spotlight before they join us, and so that's where you can stay tuned for events. We also sometimes have um, our insta lives on there, which you've been on um, and so, yeah, do, uh, do, do, check us out on socials because we we, we try and post engaging content on there as well.
Speaker 1:it's not just plug-in events, we also want to post cool stuff as well you do, you do, but I think it's the event stuff is really good because it you give people a real feel of what it's like to to be there, so they can qualify themselves straight up and go. You know what? That's me, that's a bit of me.
Speaker 2:I really want to want to go and check that out yeah, it's important that, like you said, if people see themselves in your story on your dance floor, they'll come, and that comes from everything from making sure that your pictures showcase your diverse audience through to the stories and the testimonials, that testimonials that you share uh, so I'll make sure that's in the show notes now.
Speaker 1:I've mentioned that you do frequently, frequently write for loner drinker magazine, neil and I love it. You're a fantastic writer and I love your attitude. I love the, the like you say you're a storyteller and the way that you communicate and, as people will have gleaned from listening to this conversation, you don't hold back. You know you. You put it all out there, um, so obviously, people can go and check out some of your articles inside the magazine, but you also have your own sub stack as well, don't you?
Speaker 2:yeah, I do have a sub stack. It's called neil talk. Uh, real talk, neil talk, because I do just put it all out there. You know it's kind of. You know I'm, I am, I'm an open book, and not unnecessarily, you know. It has to have a point and it has to have a purpose, and that's um, either educating people or bringing them along on a journey or making them feel seen and celebrated, um, so do check out my sub stack. But, um, check out my article my previous article was for lono drinker, because they've all been such a joy to write and I also host my own podcast called pause and rewind, where I chat to queer, queer change makers and role models who are striving to make the world a more inclusive place, because, because let's face it, we really need that right now. So, yeah, check out Pause and Rewind and my sub-sack, neil Talk.
Speaker 1:Well, the easiest thing to do as you're listening to this on your podcasting app of choice is obviously just to go and search for Pause and Rewind, and then also in Neil's show notes, you'll be able to find his links to all of his stuff as well. Now, neil, before I let you go, because I realize I've taken up, far more of your time than I said I would.
Speaker 1:But it is time for my final question, which is one that I ask everybody who comes on the show because, as you know, I believe in spreading the love of low-no and light drinks around the world. So it is spring, mid-spring, it's just after Easter, the sun is starting to shine, it is warming up, barbecue season is upon us, or it will be very soon. So imagine that you are off to a barbecue at a friend's house maybe you, emma and janie, are getting together to listen to some tunes outside, while the burgers are flipping, and you're bringing along a couple of alcohol-free drinks that you want to enjoy on a day like that. What is in your drinks basket?
Speaker 2:in my drinks, but you're gonna get a couple of things in my drinks basket actually. So, firstly, there will always be a bottle of myth coconut um. I have a sweet tooth and I love coconut um, so you will always find a bottle of myth coconut? Um and pineapple juice? Um, and that's actually that's that that suits me in all kinds of environments. It is my sitting in a bubble bath on a Sunday evening with just mith coconut on ice. But certainly at a party you'll find me with a mith coconut and pineapple juice. If it's getting a bit later and we're going out afterwards, you'll probably find me with three spirit live nut and lemonade.
Speaker 2:Again, sweet tooth has to be with lemonade, not soda. I need that extra little bit of sweetness to it. Um, and especially the three spirit spicy version um, because it is lush. Doing shots of that is good fun. Um, but if it also, I like a cider, but I like a dry cider. I've gone off my fruity ciders for someone with a sweet tooth. So I like a thatcher's gold and I like a fact. I like it that I can sit in a weatherspoons pub garden with a thatcher's gold as well oh, do they do them at weatherspoons?
Speaker 1:they do yeah that just aren't bad. You know I actually because they do them in the in the beer garden that my local uh park pub has got some massive beer garden and it's quite nice to get thatches and go and sit outside in the sun, pour it into a pint glass and you have a cider with you yeah, yeah, I love it. So those three are my go-to and my go-to three excellent, and the and the myth and pineapple, you know that's very much.
Speaker 2:We're getting pina colada vibes going here right I love a pina colada and you know what, like you know, don't, if you're going to make a pina colada, put stick some myth in it. Please don't just serve me a pineapple juice and a and a coconut milk like, put some myth in it, give it a little bit of substance again, and and never scrimp on the umbrella like we've got.
Speaker 2:I have a stock of them and they're always busting them out. In my ikea flamingo glasses, um, but yes, I, yeah, those. Those are my go-to free um, but especially, especially, the myth my, my, my cabinet's always got a bottle of myth coconut in it, but I also love the cans of myth sundowners as well.
Speaker 1:Oh, yes, the um, yes, yeah, no, myth is myth is amazing. Um, uh, the lovely colette saffel, who is, uh, a powerhouse of alcohol free drinks pioneering, who launched both a spirits brand and an energy drink brand at the same time because, you know, she felt like she really wanted a lot of work to do.
Speaker 2:Yes, and who doesn't love a can of goat right, Like the different flavours?
Speaker 1:Such an award-winning brand. She's done phenomenal I had her on the show quite a while ago. Definitely check it out and see what she's all about. She's an interesting woman.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she really is, and one of the people that supported us was just literally like yeah, what stock do you need? When we first launched, and now we stock them at our events and our venue. Buy them from Colette. So it's about facilitating those relationships Collaboration all the way.
Speaker 1:Brilliant. I love to hear it, neil. The three of you have done something phenomenal. I know I've said it a couple of times, but I genuinely mean it, as an old school raver myself who spent many, many nights and many, many hours shaking a foot in very dark clubs, regardless of the state of the toilets. That's not something we need to dive into, but you know that feeling as I was saying before, it's visceral. Going into a club and being able to have that experience, and you have recreated it exactly. It is not a clubbing experience, it is not like clubbing, it is going clubbing. You just get to go home at a decent hour and I think that's brilliant absolutely or sometimes.
Speaker 1:Like me, I'll carry on and then it's yeah keep up the amazing work and Lono Nation. I encourage you to go and check out all of Neil's link and to get yourself a ticket and go and experience this clubbing extravaganza. It's like nothing you would have experienced before. Thank you very much, my lovely Thank you so much.
Speaker 2:See you on the dance floor.
