Mindful Drinking & Moderation in Midlife: Low No Drinker Podcast

107: Masculinity, Mental Health, and Moderation with Performance Coach Ben Hill

• Denise Hamilton-Mace • Episode 107

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This week I’m joined by Ben Hill, founder of Ask More, a performance Coaching service for professional men looking to up their game across the board, to talk about masculinity, midlife, and moderation.

We dive into why so many men still struggle to open up, how beer o’clock has quietly become the male equivalent of “mummy wine culture,” and the surprising amount of time and clarity Ben reclaimed when he stepped back from drinking.

From breaking outdated norms to learning how to “stand in your power,” Ben shares practical strategies for creating a life you don’t want to escape from – whether or not alcohol is in it.

0:00 Ben's story
4:19 Is it toxic masculinity?
8:20 Questioning marketing messages
12:10 Daddy beer culture
15:32 Standing in your power
18:26 Is midlife moderation the answer?
21:34 How to get the most of your booze break
27:17 Reclaiming your time
31:16 Peeling back the filter
34:29 Find Ben
36:17 The BBQ-Q


HTTPS://WWW.LINKEDIN.COM/IN/BENHILL1/


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Peroni 0.0*

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Speaker 1:

Hello, hello and welcome to this week's conversation on the Mindful Drinking and Moderation in Midlife podcast brought to you by Lono Drinker, bringing you closer to the people, places and brands leading the Lono and Light Alcohol revolution.

Speaker 1:

Today I am in conversation with Ben Hill. Ben is the founder at Ask More Coaching, where he helps to remove the stigma around and help improve the image of men's masculinity and mental health in the corporate space through awareness and coaching. As part of that coaching, Ben is a certified positive psychology and alcohol-free performance coach. Today I've asked him to join me to discuss a couple of the areas that he helps with that I just thought were super interesting and super fascinating for the low-no drinker audience, such as the amount of time that Ben was able to return to his life when he decided to take a break from drinking, why moderation could work for you and why the male equivalent to the mummy wine culture peer pressure that seems to be rife in midlife isn't discussed as much as it should be. Thank you very much for joining me today, Ben, and excusing my introduction as I coughed and spluttered all over you, which hopefully I'll take out for the listeners, but it's lovely to have you here. How are you doing, my lovely?

Speaker 2:

Lovely to be here. Thank you for having me and really excited to have this conversation, thank you.

Speaker 1:

You are very welcome, very welcome. Now. I've said a lot of great stuff about all the amazing things that you do, which I'm definitely fascinated to dive into, but I always like to start the podcast by asking my guests to share the adventure, the journey that led them to where they are now in terms of you starting your coaching business. So what was it that led you to where you are today?

Speaker 2:

to where you are today? Great question, happy to share For me. I was in corporate for 20 plus years. I was following the path that was laid out, based on society's rules, based on the societal matrix, if you like, working nine to five, working my way up the ladder matrix, if you like, working nine to five, working my way up the ladder, chasing the things that I believe were the right things to chase. Money, success on the outside I had it on paper, but internally I was unfulfilled. And that got to the point in my late thirties where, like a lot of men, men I was questioning is is this it? Financial success, internally unsatisfied, questioning more and you know six figures in corporate spam.

Speaker 2:

My wheels hit the skid, burnt out, fixed. It changed my life forever and for me, I always knew I wanted to give back the needs. I just didn't quite know how. That started a little bit with coaching and training within CrossFit. I developed a little bit of self-awareness. Really. I reached out for help.

Speaker 2:

I started my diploma in positive psychology coaching about 18 months ago. I enlisted the help of a coach and now I help successful men in and around their 40s who are busy making a living but not designing a life, who are ambitious but struggling with a destination. You know stress, trading time and energy. They've got more responsibility but they're really struggling to to switch off and you know the inner critic is is is a constant that's powering self-doubt, um, and there's disconnection as well. So things like alcohol and overwork sometimes are masking something deeper, and this comes from a place of my own personal transformation and theory, and that's helped me start and create my own coaching practice, ask more coaching and go on to to uh, to help other men align with and create a personal strategy that aligns with their goal, with their purpose and their meaning, because it's in our d. We need those things in order to thrive and sometimes we just need a listening partner to create that space in a non-judgmental environment to help us get there. I'll take a pause there. Any questions?

Speaker 1:

And I like that. I like create a listening partner, because I think that there's a lot of talk, isn't there, about the way that we as a society are moving on in terms of what we need to do to help each other to be there, sit together, but there is still always this stigma. I think, looking at my husband, looking at the circles that he moves in my big brother, there is still a bit of stigma. I think correct me if I'm wrong about men opening up and talking to each other honestly about things that might be considered a bit more sensitive. There seems to be a need still for that bravado. I don't necessarily like the frame toxic masculinity, I think it's too too generalizing and too sweeping, but but there is definitely says when my husband talks to me about the work environment.

Speaker 2:

there is that sort of need to be sort of top dog, which doesn't leave space for a lot of men to talk about the things that are really touching them agreed that there is still, um, there is still a stigma around men and opening up and speaking up and lads culture and hustle culture, whatever you want to call it right, and I posted about that today on linkedin about having deep male connections. How many friends can you count, on one hand, that you can have a real deep and meaningful with the coffee shot test? I call it. We're surrounded by acquaintances and drinking buddies, but who can we have a real conversation with? We're too scared about judgment, we're scared of being found out if we open up and expose what we're really thinking.

Speaker 2:

What we're really thinking, um, there was a really interesting podcast, steven bodlet, steven bartlett, about how the need for men to have connection, to have challenges to have and set goals is is in our dna, but we're we're taught from a very early age in school, to sit still, to be quiet, to suppress our emotions, to not be demonstrative, and that compounds and carries into into our later life and and we're told to sort of speak up. But what we need is somebody to to listen non-judgmentally, uh, in a, in a safe space and environment, and there are places like um. Andy's man club is one and there are groups around, but there's still a stigma associated with that. Um so so when we, when we bury those emotions at least when I did that manifests itself in poor standards, poor behaviors and poor relationships, alcohol, anger, frustration. Um, first of all, just you mentioned linkedin to relationships, alcohol, anger, frustration.

Speaker 1:

First of all, just you mentioned LinkedIn. To anyone listening, I will put it in the show notes. Ben's LinkedIn is a great trove of information and inspiration and I highly recommend people go and give it a follow. So I'll put a link in the show notes for you there. Thank you Mentioning Stephen Bartlett Diary of a CEO any time my podcast is in any way associated with that, it's absolutely fine.

Speaker 1:

So you keep going. But I'd like to take what you said and relate that Obviously, the topic of this podcast and my main focus is on alcohol-free drinking or low-no and light drinking, and when we first spoke I said to you I really like to focus on midlife moderation because I think that that's a really important area. And you put your hand up and said that is me to a T, 100%. So I 'd really love to get your thoughts on how that lad culture that you've been referencing, you know, then equates to the way that men are using alcohol. As you said yourself, you know, perhaps it's a bit of a crutch, perhaps it's a little bit of a habit forming. Perhaps you want to look at is this the right thing for me to be doing? How do we bring those thoughts together in a positive way.

Speaker 2:

I think the shift well, I know the shift is changing with Gen Z, alcohol-free options and low and no are up. You know this more than me. I read this the other day about 35% year on year in the UK and there are more and more options and choices that wasn't there and we were a product of parents who were brought up in an environment there were. There was none of that, and so we're just following those, those same patterns. Alcohol is in our dna. It's been there for thousands of years and it's marketed heavily to us, psychologically as well, very cleverly. And, for instance, I was watching tv the other day and there was a uh bit of moretti whatever it was um being advertised on tv and they chased the sun and sat up there and it was all glistening and sexy. And then we went out for lunch on the saturday and I saw the moretti there and I was like and it resonated so subliminal and it's as I said, it's in our dna and we're taught that it's sexy.

Speaker 2:

Couple drink it, you need it on holiday, you need to have fun, um, you need it to be successful, but you don't uh it it's typically, you know, when the fun stops. Stop as they, as they say, as you get a little bit older, you physically just cannot cope with it. It impacts your sleep, your mood, your skin, your performance, how you show up, your cognitive ability, the brain fog. Even just two drinks destroys your sleep and impacts how you feel the next day. So your energy and your mood. For me in particular, I was carrying that through to a monday and I was just questioning like what, what is this and this feeling and do I? Do I need to do it? Do I have a choice? Thursday is the new friday. In in corporate world, just go and have a beer. One turns into six, 50 quid down the drain, smoking a few cigarettes, eating crap, getting the last train home, leaving my car at the station, missing dinner with my family, with a load of people for a load of people that don't really well, don't love me, but we'll put it that way and then your performance is hampered the next day until five o'clock and you can have another beer.

Speaker 2:

But if you don't know, if you don't have a strategy or you don't know your why, then you just keep going with the status quo, and I think that's part of what, and the work I do is unraveling those limiting beliefs that are associated with it could be past trauma, it could just be poor standards around that drinking culture. To give people a choice. I'm not saying because that's what we want is control and for some people, you know there's no. The WHO says World people, you know there's no. That who says world health organizations? There's no safe limit of alcohol.

Speaker 2:

Okay, however you've, you know people, when you, when you understand your triggers and your reasons for and you have a strategy, then life becomes a little bit easier. It's not an automatic decision like oh yeah, I'll just have a. Yeah, go on, mate, I'll have a lager. When you don't really think about it. You don't sometimes want one, but there's also I'll pause for thought in a minute there's also that, that that sort of stigma. It's like god, mate, I'm gonna just have one, just have one. That person is ultimately and I've been that person is ultimately asking their own insecurities and probably questioning this exactly the thing. So, standing in your power, knowing your why and having a really good reason and a strategy whether that's driving or spending time with your family or signing up to a gym class the next day is really, really important. And there are other options now, like the low and no alcohol options no alcohol options Standing in your power, that's.

Speaker 1:

That's a a wonderful phrase, um, do you? Do? You think, then, from from what you're saying, would you consider the sort of that that after work pint, that that you know whether it's an office environment or a a factory environment, you know whatever it is? Is that the the equivalent to the mummy wine culture that we hear so much about on social media? For mums, and for anyone who might not have heard of it, that's the sort of all the memes you get. You know, oh, hard day with the kids. You deserve a glass of wine, or off to a kid's party. It'll be OK if you bring a bottle of Prosecco to make it better, you know, and I wonder if for men it's that's the equivalent space for it.

Speaker 2:

Exactly, beer o'clock. It's five o'clock somewhere. You're absolutely right, it's whatever you want to call it. Yeah, gin o'clock, mummy's wine glass, daddy's beer glass. It's a societal sort of norm or expectation, same as we're told that we need to work certain hours and uh, follow, follow the, uh, the, the educational system, or you won't be a success. That's changing a little bit. Um, now, but, but, but again, it's. It's. It's chasing those, though, living by those outdated constructs. And well, if we, if we really sort of question it, then you know we probably consider another option. But yeah, it it is. Is that you know, it's that hustle culture, it's meeting down the pub at five o'clock for a, for a couple of beers, because that's what's always being done. Um, so so yeah, it effectively is on, in my opinion.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah. And so what's the next phase then? Because there'll be a lot of people listening to this themselves, men or women who are thinking about their partners, or whatever. Is the next phase then to say, right, okay, well, we need to just knock that all on the head, or is it a case of you need to go out and make an active moderation plan? Do you need to start with taking a definitive break? You know, in your practice, when you're speaking to people who've come to this realization and understand that it's time for them to find a way to stand in their power, is there a a starting point that you often recommend?

Speaker 2:

there's a couple of things. There's three things. I'll keep it brief. The first one where do you want to be in 10 years? And it's not a throwaway question. What do you want to look like? How do you want to feel? Where do you want to be? Who do you want to be with? What do you want to have achieved? Because if you carry on down the same path, you ain't going to be there or you could still be standing outside the boozer with john and james drinking pints at five o'clock. If that's what you want, no judgment. I'm not anti-drinking. I just know from my experience and what I've been able to achieve since I took a break.

Speaker 2:

Second is we'll do an audit. What are your reasons for, what are your reasons against? And we'll outweigh the pros and cons. There's a bit more to it than that. You can do that at home. Just challenge those beliefs, and that's quite enlightening.

Speaker 2:

And the third thing is I'd recommend is a 30 to 60-day break. That's it. Then decide what you want to do. But if you're open to re-evaluating your relationship with alcohol, if you've got that, that quiet tension inside of you, that's saying not, something's not right, I'm not feeling my best, I'm not performing at my best, and you know, in the gym, um, my relationships aren't the best, my sex life is suffering, my body shape isn't what it wants to be, I'm not at my best at work, and so and so is performing better. Whatever it is for you, then consider a 30-day break. Weigh up the benefits after that. Then make a conscious decision is my recommendation.

Speaker 2:

And there's lots of apps, free apps and free books. I can recommend these and give it all away on linkedin. It's not just about alcohol free, by the way, um, because there's a lot more to it than that in some instances. Um, but yeah, it's, it's all there. There's one year, no beer. There's the dry app, and you can be part of a community to take a 30-day break, and then you might just introduce it back with a lower volume. Just snap that sort of automated habit that you have and have a bit of a circuit breaker.

Speaker 1:

And in terms of people in sort of this midlife phase that yourself and myself and probably all of our friends are in, how important do you think is moderation is to part of that midlife journey? When it comes to improving your performance as you mentioned so many places, didn't you Whether it's your physical, mental, work, performance, family, sex, life, all of these things. What role can moderation play in that? Because quite often people moderation either gets a really bad rap or people say is the be all and end all solution to everything. I'm not quite sure it fits into either one of those categories.

Speaker 2:

I think you're right, I can't moderate. I'm a quite sure it fits into either one of those categories. I think you're right, I can't moderate. I'm a guzzler. So if I have a glass of lemonade, I'm going to drink it pretty fast. Same with alcohol. If I had a petroleum-grade cocktail I would probably drink it faster than most. It's just who I am.

Speaker 2:

Some people can. My partner can nurse a glass of wine for three hours and I used to have a glass of what drank, mine and then look at hers because I just it's knowing, it's self-awareness. So you can take I do train myself to do that to eat slower, to be present, to enjoy. It's just another decision. How much, what brand, when, how do I want to feel, what time? It's just another stressor that I personally I don't need.

Speaker 2:

But moderating in life in general, if you can moderate, if you can moderate, you don't really need to because it's natural to you. The ones that talk about moderation are the ones that are probably a bit more not gluttonous, but need a bit more help. So in those instances there are other options where a low alcohol beer which there are some really great ones now offers you that option to feel like you've got an adult drink in your hand, but it doesn't trigger that thirst for, for more, it doesn't shut off your frontal cortex and and mean that you're just gonna end up um drinking six pints and, you know, getting a taxi home yeah, I think you make a a really important point now.

Speaker 1:

I often um reference difference between what I call active moderation and passive moderation, and active moderation being your things, like your one year no beer, which I know you did and made a huge difference for you. Your dry month challenges sober spring, all of those sorts of things, dry January, and I think that those can be great for people. I myself tried several. Can be great for people. I myself tried several. I don't like to say I was unsuccessful, because I think that trying it is a success. Going into it and knowing that you're ready to make some changes is a great thing.

Speaker 1:

How it comes out might be different for different people at different times, but the worry I have about active moderation like that is that the sort of the white knuckling through the countdown to February 1st or November 1st when you go out and you just go right, that's it. I've done my dry month. Let's get pissed and the my worries with those is that they just undo all the great stuff during that time. You recommend that people do try a 30 or 60 day break. What can people be doing during that time to make the most of it so that on February the 1st. They don't just go hell for leather down the pub and make up for all the days that they haven't been drinking.

Speaker 2:

It's a really good point. That was me and I did a year and I made up for it. But I would recommend, because I didn't have the right strategy in place, I I would recommend working with a coach where there is past traumas. Trauma sounds like a really serious word but you're likely drinking for a reason to to forget, to pause. If you're not aligned with your job, your values, your purpose and your, then it's just nice.

Speaker 2:

At the weekend, you pop a beer or a glass of wine, you forget, you're not responsible, you switch off. But then Sunday rolls around, you get the Sunday scaries and you go into Monday. So when Christmas comes around and you think, oh, I'm going to do it for dry January, you do your month and then you go back in. That's where some of these apps are scaled to really really help you now for what is next. And it's about who you're becoming and knowing that. Why that I said earlier. It's like why am I taking a break? Because I want to realize X, y and Z and when you get back, having a strategy for I don't want to say moderation, but for that person that you want to become, so you don't revert back to type.

Speaker 1:

I really love that, because that to me sounds like and correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like the goal of a 30 or 60 day break isn't about going teetotal at the end. It's about taking some time out to find out who you are, what you want and how you're going to achieve it, and within that you can consider whether alcohol plays a role in that or not.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's fair, I did. I've done various, various stints and I did a eight, eight months and then I I went and had a couple of beers and I told myself, I'm not, I wanted to, I felt like it, and there was no guilt or punishment behind that. My sleep suffered the next day, my energy really suffered. I didn't beat myself up with a shitty stick and and then the monday I wasn't underperforming. I could feel it in in myself. So then it's that question of how do I want to feel?

Speaker 2:

So it goes back to doing that work on the, the, the pros and cons of why am I actually drinking? To relax, to socialize? But when that thought triggers a thoughts, actions or beliefs, the only things that we're actually in control of. So when that thought pops up oh, it's a boring day, I need a beer, or there's that stressor at work, I'm going to drink. It's it's like do I believe? You know? Thinking about that belief, like, how is that going to serve me? How do I to feel? Pay it forward because you're stealing from tomorrow effectively.

Speaker 2:

Then consider your options and take action based on that. Don't just, you know, white knuckle it, as you say, and go and have a strategy. But yeah, the options for me having an alcohol-free beer, uh, I try and do that. I do that first because it just it hits the spot for me and uh, if I do feel like a beer, I have a choice personally. But then I think about where I'm going. I do, I question it like I think how do I want to feel tomorrow? And I'm like I've got gym at six o'clock. I don't want that pain in my life, so it's just a trade-off.

Speaker 1:

I'm 100% with you. You know, regular listeners will know that I haven't come in this journey from a recovery or sobriety phase. Mine has been a choice, and my choice came from me deciding that I never, ever, wanted to have a hangover, ever again. And so those times when I do think, oh, I might like to have a drink, I think to myself right, am I going to have just one? How is it going to make me feel? What have I got to do tomorrow?

Speaker 1:

How annoyed am I going to be at my age just for being in the same room as me. Am I going to slap at my husband and just weighing up all of those things versus having an alcohol free alternative that can do the same thing, because sometimes it's just about having something in your hand, isn't it?

Speaker 2:

exactly it's. It's a habit. It's almost like smoking effectively and you hit the nail on the head. Listening to you, it sounded stressful, all the, all the decisions that you had to go through. And and I'm not, I'm not a sobriety coach you have a uh dependency on alcohol. Then I have a list of support I can refer you to. This is this is about creating a life you don't want to walk away from and performing a hundred percent, even if you drink. You got money, you're exercising, you are still not performing a hundred percent. And and many people will hear you when you say, even after four beers, the kids the next day bouncing around, they're up at seven jumping on the sofa, wanting their breakfast, wanting to play. You're shouty a bit, oh no, now I feel bad, and you personally, yeah, it's just not worth it yeah, 100.

Speaker 1:

Um, I wanted to. Um, I mentioned in the introduction there's something I wanted to talk to you about. I was really really interested in your perspective on time, so we've kind of touched on it a little bit. But you have an interesting theory about the 10 hours. Tell me about that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So I want to under-promise and over-deliver in my coaching. Depending on where you're at will be dependent on exactly how much time. But if you were the person I was, which was probably drinking Friday, saturday, maybe Sunday, I can save you 10, 15 hours over the weekend, and that doesn't mean you're never going to drink again. It just means you've got the choice and the strategy to make your own decisions.

Speaker 2:

If that isn't so much of a problem with you, then realistically, five hours a week what? What would you do with with that time? Focus on your, your time and energy, on your, on your health. Get fitter faster, work on your relationship, start that side hustle and perform better at work, put the kids to bed on time without guilt. Because of all your emails and teams, it's yeah. There's a lot of time to be saved, and how much even.

Speaker 2:

We're all out of social life, right? So you want to go to the pub and you want to have a beer, whatever. That's fine, that's your choice. If you want to have a low-no beer, that's also fine, that's fine, that's your choice. If you want to have a low no beer, that's also fine. But so I guarantee for me eight, eight or ten, eight to nine times out of ten I was. I didn't really want to be there, and so it's like what? What can I be doing with that, with that time in?

Speaker 2:

Instead, um, repairing and rebuilding my, my mental health and my relationships, and being the best father and husband that I can be, and also, within that, as your health improves your mental health, your well-being, your self-awareness everybody else benefits. When you're serving your own cup, your wealth increases. You're saving not only time, you're saving money, and when your performance improves, then you're increasing your revenue options as well. Then you're more in alignment with your strengths and your values. You're purposeful. You're creating meaningful challenges to keep yourself focused. You're in control. Crystal clear clarity. You can know the destination. I've helped people running marathons and doing high rocks. I'm doing another event graphics games with somebody in August and it's all there.

Speaker 1:

I've gone off on one, but yeah, but I get it because I think that the time thing is really important, because it's not just the obvious time, it's not just the time that you spend in the pub or with the socializing. That's probably the time that's best spent in this whole uh sort of uh timeline of things, because there you're socializing, you're interacting with people, you're building social connections, for whichever way you do but it's the time that's wasted afterwards. And for me it wasn't just the hangover, because I mean, the hangovers are pretty bad. I was known to be very ill for many, many hours and it just wasn't worth it.

Speaker 1:

I brought it all on myself. It's fine, but thank you. But for me it was sort of the time after that. It was the day after the hangover, and the day after that I would still be feeling groggy, but not realize it until Wednesday when suddenly I felt, oh, I feel really good, I feel good today. Why is that? And it took me a while to realize that it was because my body was still, and my brain was still operating at just a lower capacity.

Speaker 1:

Uh, and it wasn't until I went on on on my moderation, low, no journey, whatever you want to call it I realized that I've been operating at like 60 70 capacity for most of my my adult life, and so actually the amount of time that was able to get back was immense what?

Speaker 2:

what would you do? What metaphor would you describe that feeling? As that you carried through on the on the Monday to Wednesday? Just curious.

Speaker 1:

Oh, that's a good question. I, I, I feel like I was. I was there and I'm present, but there was a film that there was. There was like a you know, you know that the the thing you get on your phone that covers your phone and it looks clear and you can see through it, but it's only when you take it off that you realize how shiny the phone is.

Speaker 2:

That is how I felt, and it was only when I just I peeled that off and I went oh, oh, okay, no, this is what I feel like when I'm feeling great life in HD yes, there you go I mean it feels like a cloak rear for me, a really heavy cloak, and that I'm, that I'm carrying around, and then it there's a, as you mentioned, there's loads of resources. On my linkedin I did a linkedin live with with a colleague, a fellow coach, who runs a recruitment firm, and we talk about alcohol in performance in business and presenteers and what we were talking about there denise that it's. It's a big thing in businesses people aren't performing at their best. It's a huge problem. And so there's there's so much money being left on the table in in in that world. So that's that's park that for another conversation, but that's a consideration absolutely.

Speaker 1:

I think you know I mean in my career before this was in hospitality, so drinking I was running bars and restaurants and clubs. So so you know, turning up with a hangover or having a drink on shift was part and parcel of of what you do. But even there, um times when I did have a bit of a break, you could tell that there was a difference in your ability to serve your customers, to to, you know, communicate with my boss, to to motivate my team. So there is there's a definite impact, I think, on on our economy from the way that we don't recognize the impact that alcohol can have on us individual performances. But, as you say, that is a a big topic. I know that's one that that you help people with. So if somebody did want to come and reach out to you, ben, can you tell us um a little bit more about what they can expect and where they can find you, because I think the stuff you shared has been fascinating.

Speaker 2:

I really appreciate that and just piggybacking off what you said as well confidence that what you were describing there to be able to deal with life stresses, but also going back to that standing in your, in your I was almost you know these self-limiting beliefs I would hold myself differently, and removing that just gives you that confidence. So when you get a taster for some of that, yeah, you don't really want to go back, but yeah, people can find me on. Linkedin is where I live and my website's there. It's search for Ben Hill or ask more coaching.

Speaker 2:

Part of the work that I do really is to install it is to listen right, but to install a proven, repeatable framework that helps people build that personal strategy and lifestyle code so they can take that consistent daily action and make measurable progress to their goals.

Speaker 2:

So, say, it's regaining five hours a week so you can perform better, so you can spend more time with the family without guilt, so you can train for that marathon. And we do that using using the ask more method, so we map out all the goals and so they have a daily workflow, which naturally leads to that we take action, we upgrade the mindset, scale personal strengths, clear outdated thought patterns and align to those routines and then, with that all cleared, we strengthen the resilience, reinforce self-belief and confidence beyond the 90 days initially, and create an alchemy of self, if you like, a personal philosophy of who you're becoming that reflects your values, your goals and then the identity of the person that you want to become. So people have that repeatable framework and personal strategy they can carry on with beyond our time working together if they, if they choose so it sounds.

Speaker 1:

It sounds wonderful and really beneficial to people uh, and I would stress to listeners that this isn't a an alcohol uh reduction program. This is a lifestyle uh coaching program that you help people with. Alcohol is just one part of that journey that people can take. When it comes to asking more and I love that the ask more approach and asking more of yourself, asking more of your life giving more as well so I think that sounds fantastic.

Speaker 1:

I'll put that all in the show notes for people who want to reach out and get in touch Before I let you go. It's time for my final question. I ask everybody who comes on the show because I believe in spreading the low, no and light alcohol love far and wide. Um, here in the uk we are in the middle of a heat wave so obviously none of us can cope um, but there'll be many a barbecue taking place. So imagine this weekend you are off to a barbecue at a mate's house and you are bringing with you some low, no and light alcohol drinks. What would you like to enjoy on a sunny barbecue day?

Speaker 2:

there's a couple. Now I'm gonna get shot. I'm gonna get shot down because there'll be some purists out there saying, no, all these magical ipas, they're low and no, tend to be. The crafted ones have some. They have a few additives in sometimes and may not sit. Well, they are, they are great. There are loads out there. Okay, I do like lucky saint. Okay, my, my favorite is just a plain and simple crisp. Peroni zero or corona zero, those two. I've got them in my fridge. Now I'm gonna have one at the end of the day and I'm looking forward to it and I cannot taste the difference. So that's what I would. I would bring and I'm gonna take the labels off when I come to your barbecue and people won't know which one they're drinking.

Speaker 1:

Do you know what? Do you know what? Peroni Zero was actually the first alcohol-free beer that I ever had and I was blown away that they were so similar and I think it's absolutely fine. You know the Peronis, the Coronas, the coronas, the heinekens. Yes, they're big alcohol, but they let people know that this is okay. You know, if the big business is doing it, then I can jump into and then you can go and explore brands like lucky saint and others that are out there it's a cool brand as well.

Speaker 2:

Peroni, heineken and heineken zero was splashed all over the latest brad pitt movie, peronia, advertising Zero now. So it's not long before more and more people and I see it just chilling out with a Zero, no judgment, no stigma and just having the same conversation. Any anxiety goes away after 10 minutes.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely, and that's a really good point, that after a few minutes nobody cares, and that includes you.

Speaker 2:

We're all just trying to figure it out.

Speaker 1:

We are, we are and we will get there one day at a time, as they say. But, ben, thank you so much for joining me. I've really enjoyed your insights and it's really nice to get different perspectives, so I really appreciate you coming on the show and sharing that. As I said, I will make sure all your links are in the show notes for people who want to reach out and get in touch and keep up the amazing work that you're doing.

Speaker 2:

Thank you very much and I hope it helps just one person. Keep up the good work.

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Denise Hamilton-Mace

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