A Quick Podcast about Podcast(s) with Andrea & Fotis

Andrea and Fotis (a guest host of L&P) explore the intricate world of podcasting. Fotis, returning from a previous episode and getting ready to do his second podcast for L&P, asks Andrea about the podcast's growth. In this unplanned chat, the two talk a bit about what podcasts mean to them, Game B, the intersection of various disciplines, and the broader impact of podcasting as a medium. They discuss the research and connective side of podcasting and reflect on this new journey, sharing insights on authenticity, community-building, and the challenges of navigating complex topics. Tune in for a quick half-hour chat that delves into their motivations, the evolution of their podcast, and the significance of having meaningful, open-hearted conversations that come from a place of love, even when they are challenging.

01:13 Discussing Podcast Growth and Community
02:02 The Philosophy Behind Podcasting
05:25 Challenges and Responsibilities of Content Creation
07:30 Interconnectedness and Network Building
11:15 The Unique Nature of Podcasts
12:14 Exploring Diverse Podcast Communities
26:02 Future Directions and Personal Reflections
34:31 Concluding Thoughts and Next Steps

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Transcript

fotis and andrea check in

 [00:00:00] Hello everyone. Welcome to Love and Philosophy. This is a little talk about podcasts podcast about podcasts with Fotis, who you may remember from the podcast he did with Yogi Johannes. Yeager. Fotis will be doing a few other podcasts in the future, and so will some other friends and colleagues. So we just decided we would get on.

Line together, have a little chat, and after a bit of talking, we thought, why don't we just record it and share it with everyone, and also just have it as part of the historical document of this podcast in formation. We're about 57 episodes in now, so it's still fairly early, but it's becoming. Quite a beautiful community.

So Fotis and I [00:01:00] just decided to talk about it a little bit and share it with you. So that's what this is about, half an hour and hope you're doing well out there. Wherever you are in the world. Sending you good thoughts today. I.  

Fotis: All right. So yeah, from, uh, we have this discussion as we've already started, and when it comes to how you view your position now, like having this baby and, and seeing it grow. Uh, and how many subscribers are there on YouTube right now? there were a lot.

Andrea: There are a lot. I actually don't know because it just kind of went out of control, but I, I don't actually know how many right now, but a lot like 70,000 maybe.

Okay. 

Fotis: Yeah. Yeah. Like I was, uh, surprised. 

Andrea: Yeah. Yeah, me too. 

Fotis: uh, so you said also you phrased it interest in an interesting way that, uh, it went out of control. Is this how you feel about [00:02:00] this kind of right now? 

Andrea: Uh, I just feel like it started as research, but that. There's always been an I mean, I write books and things, right?

And so there's, okay. I wanna communicate with people. So it's not that I was just thinking of it. Okay. It is just research. It was like, I wanna share it because I think that the truth is a lot of the ideas I'm working on and the philosophy and the books are just very hard to express and trying to make all the different connections.

Across them. It's very hard to just say that to someone. So I thought, okay, I could demonstrate it through these conversations because. If you really look at all the conversations, you can find all the links and in the books, I'm doing that in a different way, but I wanted to try to perform it. Um, yeah, but not as an act as here are all the conversations I'm having.

So maybe in the future if you read the book, you can look back and go, oh, okay, now I see the, the things. And also just [00:03:00] because, this whole idea of like, giving credit where credit is due. You know? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Because a lot of you don't, nothing comes new, right? When you work on some philosophy or a new thing, you probably know this too, with your science, and when people invite me on other podcasts, and I feel like I'm saying all these ideas and you can't.

Put little references to all of them and like quote everyone and, and then it sound, and then they'll put like a title and it sounds like, oh, it's all my idea. I've come up with it. And of course not, you know, but, with the podcast, I just thought, or the channel, I thought, well, this is just, you can see clearly where the ideas are coming from.

I'm putting them together, but it's a wide spectrum across all these disciplines. And then it just became popular. And I don't know, I think it's might to be very honest, and maybe I'm being a little, I think the title is just really good. And I think people just click that. They just click because I mean, I, I wanna think, oh yeah, they really love all this [00:04:00] philosophical, neuroscientific kind of smorgasbord content, but.

Pardon me, thinks it's just very easy to subscribe to love and philosophy because who, who doesn't want love and philosophy? What do you think? 

Fotis: Yeah, I, I'd say, uh, I am quite sensitive to memetic, uh, potential of, uh, and the, and this is actually the case. I think like it is a really good, um, meme love and philosophy and, and, uh, really attractive.

Uh, for a lot of people. So, and it seems it's, it's successful. 

Andrea: and it's kind of across the board. I think a lot of people probably just click without, you know, it could, it could relate to a lot of different people. And actually it does, because, you know, a lot of the conversations are sometimes we're talking about design and sometimes we're talking about the hardest neuroscientific ideas So, For me, it all connects, but I, I'm not sure if it all connects. I'm not sure if that's obvious to [00:05:00] people who listen. I really don't know. I get a lot of emails. Mm-hmm. and they're very supportive and that helps me keep going, but 

Fotis: Oh, that's, that's always nice to have, right? Yeah. I think that's their reward.

Like at this point, I think that's, uh, um, I guess a big part of like, what keeps this going? I dunno, how, how, how do you, you experience it? Um, but I guess like you, you've mentioned before on our, on informal discussion about this aspect of responsibility, this being a sort of responsibility right now.

Yeah. Um, and with this kind of responsibility, I guess. the emotional cost, the time and energy cost is much greater. So it has to be balanced out in some way. And so I think from a, an outsider perspective, uh, what I see, uh, let's say from [00:06:00] that perspective is, um. Only what is being put out there. Uh, and there's all these kinds of interconnections that keep on going because I've also like doing this episode with Yogi, like doing this other episodes that I've also, uh, preparing, 

Andrea: which is so great.

I'm so glad that that happened, by the way. Oh, 

Fotis: thank you. 

Um, yeah. uh, it can seem like this, um, peak of the iceberg, this transient moment that, oh, this thing got out and it's, it's artifact and you can see it publicly, but actually there's so much attached to that.

There's so many conversations attached to the conversation. It's, that is already there on the episode, the between email threads and mm-hmm. Whatever and other kind of calls and Yeah. Conferences or just like co coffee kind of, uh, conversations. Yeah. 

Andrea: Yeah. I was [00:07:00] wondering if it'd be that kind of experience for you too, because. Yeah, as you described it is for me too. It's not a little one thing that's put out. I think that's the nature of what we're trying to do, you know, too, which is still, it's, well there's only 55 epi episodes, but, it is about conversations and there's not a single conversation I've had that didn't open up new threads in my life, you know, in all those different ways you were saying.

So, 

Fotis: yeah. And, um, I guess. When you have enough of them, this is like, this network gets more and more complex and expands and, yeah, it is not very, transparent, to anybody. Uh, for example, as a podcast listener, uh, especially for people who are really into podcasts, I'm, I'm really into podcasts.

Mm-hmm. Uh, I actually get a lot, I, I'd say like I get a lot of my [00:08:00] information from podcasts as much as I do from texts. Mm. I really work in that way. but especially with podcasts, because there's this aspect of content creation. You get this parasocial relationship, like, I guess like, uh, there's this dynamic between listener and audience, but there's all this world, this whole world of interconnections that already exist.

This is not just like, one on one-to-one conversations that, uh, end. Just end there. Mm-hmm. Um, so yeah, like it, um, this has also transformed my perspective when it comes to stuff I've already listened to or, other kinds of podcasts, other kinds of content creation in general. I'm like, okay, what happens with all these networks that are invisible?

Andrea: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I, I think that's a, a good point and it's good to talk about that. I mean, I was just thinking even after you had your conversation with Yogi, Yogi and I talked [00:09:00] and, you know, that even infor informed that which we would already have done, but it it's like it. Yeah. And I think a lot of podcasts right now and a lot of people in the world feel the way you do, in the sense that it is becoming the way we get a lot of our.

Information. and it is kind of weird that it's this long form thing often and you have to kind of invest time in it. but you want to, yeah, and there's a personal side to it and yeah, you don't necessarily see that at first, but I do. I don't know about you, but if you really stay with podcasts, I think you do start to see that relationship a little bit, right?

I mean, maybe not in the way that, you know, you're seeing it because you're helping me do the podcast now, but the. You start seeing patterns, I guess, right? And relationships. And it does kind of open you up to, to worlds. 

Fotis: I, it it also depends on the, kind on the form of the podcast, right? Because there's some that actually are like, have this aspect out there.

This, for example, like voice [00:10:00] craft. Which I really like. Mm-hmm. Uh, where it is, it is also like this, it is very challenging to do like this, uh, like three or four people in the conversation. Uh, and you have the flow between all of these and you see like the same people coming back and back and back. So like, what changed?

This is not like the person or the, the, the one that is invited, uh, but the topic of the conversation. And it can be like the same people. And like there's other ones that I've seen the same person like go over and over and over again and do a new podcast. For example, like a, one example is Jim Ratso, and I think that there's a lot of e episodes with, uh, Jim Ka, porta, uh, uh, uh, and there's some, Some, you can see this relations, you can see like this continuity happen. Um, uh, so I guess [00:11:00] it's also a matter of time for these two actually. Mm-hmm. For this relationships that keep on going to,

uh, come to the surface. 

Andrea: Yeah. Yeah. There's, there's something different about podcasts, which I haven't figured out yet either in the way that I. I mean, often when I'm listening to podcasts, I'm doing, I'm walking or I'm going somewhere. Yeah. And it, it really becomes a part of my day that I look forward to, you know, the, having those kind of.

hearing the meaningful conversations in whatever way. I I think one thing I struggle with a little bit is that these worlds can also become very insular. 

Fotis: Hmm. 

Andrea: And part of, I think there, the reason I struggle with it is because the whole one point of this whole project is trying to open up to a lot of different, so-called polarities or worlds or, or whatever.

Mm-hmm. Whether that's in philosophical community or that's, you know, in different, you [00:12:00] know, among different kind of academic disciplines or just. Whatever. And that's not, it's hard. I think it's like, 'cause I, I, I have, I'm obviously coming from a certain orientation. Yeah. And, I can find, it's kind of hard.

But, but I wonder with, with what you listen to with your podcast, are you, do you find that you're listening to, do you think there's other people who are listening to the same podcasts as you, or are you more eclectic? Do you know what I mean? Like, is there like a kind of group that listens to these three or four or five podcasts?

Fotis: That's an, that's, that's interesting. Um, definitely. I, I, I definitely see it in that way because I am, I tend to be the person who's like very cross-cultural, like, I mean various different, uh, subcultural bubbles at the same time. And I can go between them like a sort of. Of modern day salmon or so.

Mm-hmm. Um, I, I can do that and I like that. And that's part of, I [00:13:00] guess, my mm-hmm. Personality. Mm-hmm. Uh, and in doing that, I can actually, it's very clear for me that there's, um, specific, uh, plexes or like cultural mattresses that are attached to certain kinds of. Platforms and episodes. Mm-hmm. for example, with, uh, Yogi, I mentioned Meta Modernism.

And Meta Modernism has that. Uh, there's a few platforms that are for that, and then there's the game B and there's like, mm-hmm. There's, uh, and kind of cluster around that. And then there's like very domain specific stuff. Uh, you can be, you see Quantum Technologies like that area has like some podcasts around it.

Uh, even very niche stuff. So for example, I've, uh, been. but I'm drawing a lot of literature from, for my PhD is this, uh, interdisciplinary kind of, uh, intersection and [00:14:00] field called computer supported cooperative work. Uh, and it's so nice, uh, and this turns out there's a podcast around it and it's really important because it has, it is part of the network that has formed around this community.

Um, that's great. And it supports it in a way. Um, so definitely I, 

Andrea: yeah, 

Fotis: I, I can see this bubble sometimes They also become very insular and not only in this very domain specific ones, like even when, there's this openness when it comes to the themes that are being explored. Mm-hmm. Um, and the. Kind of people that are being invited.

Uh, the same with, uh, like, um, for example, like the ranges can be very, I interdisciplinary, but still it can be part of a certain kind of community that has its name and identity. Mm-hmm. Uh, but I, I've already, I've, I've [00:15:00] also seen intersections happen, for example. Um, uh, and also very. explicitly to cross pollinate between these diff different communities.

Mm-hmm. I've seen it a lot happen in this whole like, liminal web kind of territory where there is all of these micronics and they weren't very, uh, connected. And there has been, um, a kind of. Meta effort on a more higher level to actually make these interconnections happen. And even very conflicting ones, uh, sometimes.

Andrea: Can you, do you have an example? 'cause that makes sense to me. 

Fotis: Uh, 

Andrea: or what were you thinking of? There's, 

Fotis: there's this, this, there's, uh, I have two very interesting ones. Like one, one of them was, I remember like, you know, how, how much into the whole. Game b kind of territory where I was, this is how I came game.

You mean 

Andrea: game B kind of Jim Rut kind of sense, right. [00:16:00] Complexity. Um, or 

Fotis: it's Jim Rut and uh, like it had mostly, let's say, but this kind 

Andrea: of gaming and business and that, that side of the community, or is it physics and I guess it's all of that, but 

Fotis: for the way I, I see it. Game B is more like this, uh, kind of.

Civilizational level thinking of how our, um, like really naming what the large scale problems, uh, are in terms of like this, uh, mode of modernity that we used to industrialist mode of production and capitalism. Um, kind of very, uh. A line go up kind of ex uh, s uh, resource exploitation and saying like, okay, maybe we can have a different kind of lifestyle, uh, completely outside of this urbanized, uh, visual life that we are used to and think [00:17:00] it's the end of history, you know?

Mm-hmm. This is kind of what game B is. It's not just like about some physics, uh, some interesting, uh, physics, uh, uh, ideas or whatever kind of. Entrepreneurship is kind of like getting all of that to support, um, this. 

Andrea: New societies in a way, saying, yeah, yeah, yeah. It sounds utopian 

Fotis: for practic. This kind of, it's practical, uh, transition towards that kind of possibility.

Andrea: Mm-hmm. 

Fotis: Um, 

Andrea: but anyway, you were saying an an example, I just wanted to bring that, yeah, because yeah. 

Fotis: for example, it was this documentary that came out. I think also like some worked on that, uh, for about, uh, not documentary actually. It was kind of this. Animated sort. It was like 15 or 70 minutes about kbi really like describing what it is, which is really nice and neat.

Yeah. Uh, but there was a little bit of backlash from this community called Dark Renaissance. That's as a way too naive way to Kumbaya. [00:18:00] Okay. And kind of like, it's like there's some, it seems way too tech optimistic. Like Yes. The solar bank ideals of like, we're gonna mix. Um. It kind of ideals of rationality with ecological, uh, with supporting ecological systems and living in this close, uh, relationship.

And then that we've gonna transition to this more comparative, decentralized modes of governance and organization. But then where's the psychoanalysis? Uh, the kind of, um. Um, deep, uh, understanding of pain and suffering in that where all of these elements, where, where is like transgressive art and punk.

Mm-hmm. Uh, it is not in that, it seems to be way too neat and, uh, cute and like I've seen this happen. And then there was, there were some approaches like that. There is some, there is a podcast from this, the, the Doc Anderson cycle that that. Techno social. [00:19:00] There were some, uh, attempts to bring like people from meta modernism or people who are in this more solar punk kind of style than people going back and forth.

Uh, I say like, the connection hasn't been made. Totally. But there's all, there's always attempts to do that. Like even if there's opposition, like, and we, in this case we're talking about a really. Radical opposition, even politically. Yeah, yeah, 

Andrea: yeah. And one that's quite important these days. 

Fotis: Yeah. 

Andrea: Yeah. So, yeah, that's my round of this.

No, it's good you brought all that stuff up, because it can get very kind of messy. But I like it when people try to dialogue about it, because I can understand, you know, I mean, as you were talking, I'm thinking. A lot of people think love and philosophy is sounds too sweet, you know? 

Fotis: Yeah. 

Andrea: Just even the title and then, but we were also talking about that's probably why it's so widely appealing, you know?

Yeah. [00:20:00] Um, or why it, it easily kind of trends or whatever, so Yeah. But, but when you really look at the content, I mean, it's not so easy and it's not always so sweet. I mean, I do talk about love, but I try to, I, I really mean it in a. Almost, you know, sometimes it's a, it's, it's not easy at the end. I don't, I don't think love is like an easy thing to talk about or, or deal with.

So it's almost uncomfortable, right? Yeah. Instead of sweet, but, but, but your example I like a lot because game B right now, and also dark Renaissance right now, those are. If you really look at people who are engaging with that kind of stuff, it's a lot of very important people in the world. in terms of where the world is going.

And so I like to think that podcasts, because of the format can at least is more likely to, Open up some of those bubbles or get that discussion going then, right? Yeah. Yeah. Other forms of media, right? Like just if you just watch a documentary on TV or [00:21:00] something. Mm-hmm. You know, you can't just go and start.

Commenting about it, or I don't, I don't know. It, it feels like podcasts are, something is different, you know? Now when you wanna research something, including me, I, and I think you just said you did this too. I often search podcast directories for the the subject, because I often find that's gonna give me the best overall understanding, and then I'll know where to go deeper and find the books.

Fotis: Right. Yeah. Yeah. I also, I also do that. Yeah. Um, and it's interesting, there's, uh, there's two, uh, tangents that I find very salient here. I'm trying to see which one Yeah. Where to navigate which one to follow. So, uh, so you do both. Uh, I, I, I, I want to pick up what you said before about like this love and philosophy guide of being in this cute and mm-hmm.

Nice kind of category. Mm-hmm. But I think, like lately, I. Uh, uh, both with. The, my podcast with Johannes, where he talks about tough love. 

Andrea: [00:22:00] Tough love. Yeah. That was a good addition. Uh, 

Fotis: mm-hmm. And with the Mike Brock, which I, I found this, uh, an incredible episode. I, I really liked that, uh, it, it really felt, uh, that it was being right in the middle of the tension.

Um. And, and it was, there was a lot of care, uh, in that, there was a lot of openness and humility, but at the same time, it, it is, it kept, kept being there in a very, in this very unca spot. And I found this very valuable and it kept on, uh, being there for the whole thing. This is how it felt. And I'm like, wow, that's, uh, a lot of time spent in this, uh, territory.

But it is. By the end of it, you feel like you actually get a lot of value out of being that, uh, especially after, with Mike being so articulate, uh, and, [00:23:00] and you just really pressuring, um, him on certain points, how like this, um, uh, if it is done in a very, uh, in that way, um. It is. Yeah, it is, it is great. So I wouldn't say it is like very flowers and 

Andrea: No, 

Fotis: but 

Andrea: those are the kind of conversations that, I mean that just, that, that happen in a natural way.

But Mike is willing to go there, right? Mm-hmm. And he's, yeah. And I mean that, but that's also one of the ones that you get pushback on too, and which is okay because usually it's because people haven't listened to it. It's more like the keywords which is understandable, but I think that was, that's kind of the whole point and what I, what feels like the heart of what we're, what I'm trying to do.

And when I we're having conversations, me and whoever is, yeah. Because we talked about a lot of hard things in that, you know. Yeah. [00:24:00] Very hard subjects that a lot of them, But it wasn't, you know it, I think it opened up both of us to understand each other more, and those are hard conversations, but they feel very important in a way, and I think they can be very stimulating and Yeah. Why those happen and how those happen. Exactly. Has a lot to do with both people being in able to show themselves in an authentic way, you know? Mm-hmm. Which is not easy. 

Fotis: I think that's the, is a value proposition. Love and philosophy is as a, as a medium. Yeah. And as an approach, uh, because you can really get into this very hard issues and tensions with love.

Uh, and we had like, through this openness that it, it can open up this kind of conversations that usually are being done in a very. In a mode of frustration and anger and uh, uh, [00:25:00] partisanship, uh, which is what is usually the case and what I see and what I'm really tired of, very honestly. 

Andrea: Yeah, I think we all are no matter where we are right now, but it's hard not to get stuck in that, or you feel like you're, you end up having to defend some side or something, or you get angry or.

But yeah, there's, I, I think that's, what's the ti in the title that I hope evolves out? I mean, that's the way, I mean it is having critical thinking, talking about. Difficult things, and it doesn't always have to be so emotional. I mean, sometimes with you and Yogi, those are not easy subjects, but you both care about them, you know?

Fotis: Yeah. 

Andrea: And so you get to a place that's very meaningful in discussing them. That's the love for me. It's, you know, it can be many different things, but I think that's what ends up being a good conversation is when both people actually care about whatever the subject is. And it's not just, oh, we're gonna do some press for my book.

which is [00:26:00] fine too, but that's kind of not. Not the thing, but you're coming into this and so we don't have a whole lot of time and I wanna hear what would you like to do from your PO point? Because it's, this is an open possibility, of course we have this orientation, love and philosophy, but you did something different with Yogi, which is wonderful.

do you feel like you can explore other spaces like that or, Do you feel kind of, do you see the horizon or are you just kind of taking one step at a time with your contribution? 

Fotis: Like, my initial intention was to learn and to understand this world better because I've always.

Had this, I had some small experimentations with podcasting and stuff like that, and recording, uh, interviews. And also as part of my own research, which involves, uh, ethnographic field work, uh, I do like interviews for, for that. Mm. So, mm-hmm. Uh, and like doing that as part of my research, [00:27:00] having to do that again and again.

I, I realized that I really liked that actually. 

Andrea: Oh, good. Yeah. 

Fotis: Especially like seeing some, uh, people who would. Be very afraid, who have never done this before in their lives. Uh, I was doing interviews of agriculture researchers in Greece locally, various different disciplines. There's people who were like scared in the beginning.

Yeah. And then after a while after breaking that, I could hear like, such insights, uh, and so much like, and, and them speak with, um, so much comfort. And I'm like, okay, so. What if, like, there's so many people who have stuff to say and they can be incredibly valuable and it's good for them to be, uh, heard. Um, so that's also another motivation.

And you know, I have my own kind of, um, uh, [00:28:00] uh, preferences in terms of. Uh, the people who all also think deserve to be heard. And it'd be interesting to explore conversations in this kind of medium. Uh, so yeah, that's how I navigated it initially and to this point still. And, um, I'm not, I'm not sure, I do not, I do not have like a very specific.

Uh, projects or endpoint to this. Uh, but because of what we discussed about this network aspect, I always found out I, I al also found out that. This is how you can create an intellectual network, in fact. 

Andrea: Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's true. 

Fotis: Um, especially in, um, because my own work is very eccentric and I tend to have work with this kind of colos of things.

I [00:29:00] cannot really fit into a specific discipline or approach or. Intellectual community that is really localized. I want to be able to, uh, create the network that comes out naturally from what I'm already, from all of these sources. I'm already trying to collapse. And I find this is, uh, a very good way to do it.

It and, uh, I didn't know that, for example, you've initially, uh, used it as a medium of research. And, and it didn't seem that like it makes sense, but it didn't seem that way. I was like, if you did more as content creation, but now I'm like, no, actually, like it is not being recognized as such, but it is very powerful in doing that.

Andrea: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I, I agree, agree with all, I understand all that. And I think, as I was saying, I don't know if it was what we were on camera or off camera now, but there's a kind of performative sense of it. So [00:30:00] I, I'm doing it for research, but as, as I said, I do, you know, I want, I don't always put all the stuff online or, you know, up there.

That's for the research too. I try to make it so people can enjoy it a bit. and I guess. I mean, a lot of these I did aren't, weren't recorded, so, but you know what I like what you said is that you about with your ethnographic research, I can see that in your questions and also in your patients and the way you listen and pause.

I really like that. And for me, when you're describing that, that's a kind of love, you know, that you see that people have so much to say and give if they're ever given the chance, and most people aren't actually, you know? Mm-hmm. In life. Mm-hmm. Somebody doesn't just listen to all this expertise that they've gained over whatever their careers, but, and that seems, there was something about, I just, I felt like you have these amazing conversations and don't you want other people to gain what you gained from them?

You know? [00:31:00] Right. Who, who, even if it's like five people, but that's, you know, in terms of these threads and these, the ways that these things spread the way we've been talking. If you did a great re conversation with someone in a very niche field, but five people really needed to hear that, that's gonna multiply, you know, over lifetimes.

So, yeah, I mean, for me that feels like a good kind of basis. For conversation, you know, and then how it all evolves. You never know. I had no idea it would go like it is. And I just talked to Tim Ingold. Right. So your, your lines are weaving together with, with this right now, and who knows what you do with it or what, what becomes later.

But it seems, yeah, there's a lot in common there too in what you said it's a great research vehicle for sure. 

Fotis: Yeah. And yeah, like, um, like, uh, for me, I'm also interested in, um, the whole traject. I, I don't think we'll [00:32:00] have time to get into that, but, um, you've all already said that you try to scale it down a little bit, uh, and.

I'm wondering how this feels from the inside, like this, like understanding that this grows, like how does the growth feel experientially, and how I. Do you deal with that once, as you said, like it kind of has gotten a little bit out of control? Uh, 

Andrea: It's a good question and it would be like a long discussion if I was really gonna get psychoanalytic about it because my early in my life I had, I was around a lot of like really kind of famous people and I've always had this, a bit of a hiding away from anything that looks like it might become.

Really popular and okay, this isn't, who knows what happens with this. It's like we're having millions and millions of viewers or whatever, but even just 70,000 seems [00:33:00] like a lot when you, you know. But I think I've, that has changed because I was just taking myself too seriously and I, I think for me it's just about having some faith and staying authentic to why I am doing it.

I don't feel very conflicted about that as I did when I was young. I think when I was really young, this is when I was like 18. I, I wasn't so solid about who I am and what I was doing and stuff and Okay. You know, and now it feels like as long as I'm doing this from the place that feels authentic.

And that means those conversations too. Yeah, because it's a risk, you know, you put something out there and it's vulnerable and you know, some people are gonna love it. Some people probably disagree. Some of the topics are so tough. But for me, as long as I'm doing it from this place of, I. What feels to me now, like my, sort of my research project that is my life, which has to do with all the stuff we're talking about, but love and philosophy sums it up pretty well.

Then it's, I don't need to know exactly where it's all [00:34:00] gonna go. I just wanna stay open to, that's why when you came to me and we had this discussion about learning, I was like, let's just, why not just do it, right? 

Fotis: Yeah. 

Andrea: Just do it, do a show. because to me. Who knows where this is supposed to go. I don't need to control it fully.

yeah, and as you said, all these other threads open up and it's, there's this whole other world around it that you don't see or hear in the, in the podcast, and that feels like the important part and trying to share that as much as possible with the audio and the video. yeah. I actually have to go now, but.

I'm glad you're doing it and I'm looking forward to the next one. It's coming soon, right? 

Fotis: Yeah, yeah. Okay. It's uh, two days. Um, yeah, this conversation. Well, thank. 

Andrea: Okay. Well we can do this again sometime, but it's just good to talk about it. We'll see. We'll see what happens. What goes next? 

Fotis: Yeah. 

Andrea: Anything else?

I have to go, 'cause I have another thing, but anything, yeah, you 

Fotis: told [00:35:00] me this is like a three sarp. Uh, I'd say let's, um, also, uh, schedule for another convers uh, conversation and a chat. Um, because yeah, like this was like a little bit squeezed. Squeezed a 

Andrea: lot. That's kind of fun to talk about podcasts too.

I didn't, we didn't expect that. But yeah, maybe we'd just do another one. We'll do some. More conversations and see what comes. Mm-hmm. 

Fotis: Yeah. Yeah. All 

Andrea: right. Well, have a good Sunday. Enjoy the sun. 

Fotis: Yeah, you too. 

Andrea: Okay, [00:36:00]