STAND with Kelly and Niki Tshibaka

Courage in the Courtroom: AG Taylor’s Stand for Alaska's Rights

• Kelly Tshibaka and Niki Tshibaka

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Attorney General Treg Taylor reveals how abandoning his Air Force fighter pilot dreams after a spiritual experience in the Canary Islands led him to become Alaska's legal champion. Under his leadership during the Biden administration, Taylor has secured major victories: winning four of five COVID mandate challenges, saving Alaska's cruise industry, and launching over 80 lawsuits defending state sovereignty. His "statehood defense" initiative fights federal overreach in endangered species designations while protecting educational choice for 22,000 correspondence students. Taylor champions the principle that "Alaskans should decide Alaska's destiny—not federal bureaucrats."

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Kelly Tshibaka:

Welcome to Stand. I'm your host, Kelly Tshibaka, and this is where we help make courage contagious. I'm joined today by my amazing co-host and husband, Niki Tshibaka, and we have an outstanding episode for you. You can catch all of our episodes on our website, standshoworg. Become one of our subscribers, our standouts, and join us on social media. Today, we are excited to have the Attorney General of the State of Alaska, Treg Taylor, join us. Treg, thank you so much for joining us on our show. We are so excited to have you.

AG Treg Taylor:

Thank you so much, Kelly and Niki, for having me on the show. I'm excited to be here. Nothing going on in the state of Alaska right now, so it's an amazing time to be in the position I find myself in a fortunate position, to be in a position that I can help the state of Alaska, and so it's a great time to be the attorney general.

Kelly Tshibaka:

We know that you are joining us from Juneau today, so we appreciate you calling in. Tell us a little bit about your background story and how you came to become our attorney general.

AG Treg Taylor:

Yeah, no. As a kid growing up ever since I can remember, I wanted to be a private lawyer. That was my goal, that was my dream, and I worked really hard for that. Actually, I grew up primarily in a single-parent home. My mother was raising four kids and teaching full-time, and so I had a lot of free time on my hand. I could have made a lot of different decisions, but I had that goal that I wanted to go to the united states air force academy and be a fighter pilot, and so that cut me out of trouble for the most part. I think that was that was that goal was key. I think that my ability to move forward and not fall for some of the pitfalls that certainly were not there around me and it led me to want to be excellent in academics and to get the grades that I could be accepted to the Air Force Academy. And so I was living the dream and, lo and behold, I get accepted to the Air Force Academy. It was one of the best days of my life. I loved the Academy.

AG Treg Taylor:

I spent two years at the Academy before they had a deal sort of with churches that if you're going to serve a mission, they wanted you to go and talk to your second year, because your first year is you're not even human. They beat on you. It's not great, it's not a fun, it's fun to look back on, was not fun to go through. And then your second year is your hardest academically. So they wanted you to get three or two years before you have free permission. So I applied for a mission at the end of the two years and was sent um to the canary islands, which is off the coast of morocco and africa and the coast, and spent two years there and reapplied to get back. You know you have to reapply while you're on your mission because that's the timelines for the academy but reapplied and got back in and they sent me a letter and I apologize ahead of time. I had a hard time getting through this story, but sent me a letter. All I had to do sign my name, sent it back in and I was going to be a junior at the United States Air Force Academy. I was living my dream. I was pilot qualified physically and one of the very few pilot qualified physically in my class. Because the DOD had come down and said hey, if you've had LASIKs, you're not going to fly for the Air Force and of course half my classmates had L you're not going to fly for the Air Force and of course half my classmates have Lasix just to fly and so um, but I got that paper and I had the hardest time trying to sign that.

AG Treg Taylor:

I tried to sign that thing so hard for about two weeks and I felt bad because here I am, I'm a missionary, I'm supposed to be serving the people of the Canary Islands and I can't get my mind off of this paper that I would love to sign. And so I did all kinds. I did all the people of the Canary Islands and I can't get my mind off of this paper that I would love to sign. And so I did all kinds. I did all the tricks like the positives and negatives for returning, and actually the only positive I could think of not returning was I could marry a girl I've been dating for many years. Right, and that was the only thing I could put in a positive. And despite all that, after about two, two weeks of not being able to sleep, not being able to focus, I'd had enough and I finally got dropped my knees and really look at me and I feel bad about it now, but really flippantly, I said, fine, I'll do what you want me to do and I knew exactly what I was supposed to do at that time. And so it really changed the course of my life and I apologize again, but literally one of the biggest decisions of my life and I'm so glad that I listened so glad that I listened because I've been able to do so much good as an attorney. And, oddly enough, I got back from my mission. I enrolled at college and I met my wife the first week, not the girl I've been dating for several years. So God has a plan. That's what I learned and I know that if I follow that plan I'm going to be in the right place to do the right things. So I feel very fortunate to be in this position. But that was part of his plan for me and you know my legal career.

AG Treg Taylor:

You know I started out in litigation. I did five years of litigation in Anchorage. You know came up my wife's from Anchorage, so we came up right after law school and so I started that five years of litigation at a firm called Lucy Moran, garrity and Zobel. Michael Garrity, who happened to be an attorney general for me, was my supervisor. And then I decided I'd go in-house because I really wanted to be part of a team. You know, I grew up playing team sports. I wanted to help grow a business, help a business solve problems, instead of just kind of be a hired hitman. And so I went over to McKinley Capital that was Bob hired, a hired hitman. And um, so I went over to mckinley capital, um, that was bob gilliam's bob gilliam shop and he was a. He was a great boss, a great mentor and uh spent uh five years there before going over to the src. Um, you know oil and gas division, who I knew.

AG Treg Taylor:

If I was going to stay in alaska and make law career, I'd eventually have to get into the oil and gas and energy arena. And so it was there that the governor reached out and asked me if I'd apply for the position of the attorney general. And so I did. It wasn't something that I'd ever thought of before. I mean, mike had gone on to become the attorney general. So I kind of had that relationship with the position.

AG Treg Taylor:

And then, when it came down to it, I did not get the attorney general spot. I remember thinking okay, and they offered me to be the deputy of the civil division, I was like, okay, if I'm going to do this, I'm going to do this through the deputy of the civil division, I'm not going to do this trying to, you know, work my way into the attorney general spot. So that's what I did. I accepted the position as deputy attorney general and then, two years later, I ended up being in this position as attorney general and I feel very fortunate because I've been an attorney general four years, almost corresponding to the Biden administration, which has been a whirlwind. So that's how I ended up where I am, you know, and I had to make Alaska my home.

AG Treg Taylor:

I know, when we were thinking about where we wanted to go after law school, jody was. The first thing she said to me was anywhere but Alaska. It's like what you know. We'd come up and work in the summers, I'd fallen in love with the state and she's like well, I've lived there my whole life. I want to see something different. But again, through divine intervention, we came to realize that Alaska was where we were supposed to be. That's where we were supposed to be as a family, our six children, and it's been a great blessing to be here at the state.

Niki Tshibaka:

That's an amazing, amazing story and I really appreciate your, just your vulnerability and your transparency, because you know, in those, it's those pivotal decisions in our lives that are the most emotional and profound and transformational, and we could hear that in your voice, but also in the story itself, just the weight of that. I have fond memories of the canary islands. I traveled there as a as a child and vacationed there with my parents, and it's just, it's a beautiful place. So, um, awesome to hear that you're on on mission over there.

AG Treg Taylor:

um, I'd like to when I made that decision not sign and to go elsewhere, that it was like a massive weight lifted off my shoulder. And it was really cool because that afternoon you know the spanish air force they have a base there on there on canary island, but I never saw any of the aircraft flying, always grounded. And that afternoon, I kid you not, two migs took off from that base and it's right over us as we were working and uh, and that had that return of that feeling where I had made the right decision, that burden had been lifted from me. And it turned out there was somebody bought a russian sub and we're going to use it as a tourist uh attraction, but didn't bother to tell uh, the governor of spain that they were going to bring that sub into their port. So that's why it was too big a scramble. So really happenstance, but another like just a reaffirmation that I was doing what I'm working to do.

Niki Tshibaka:

That's that's incredible and so thankful for for your service and wow, you know it's. It's one of those I call it the pressure cooker moments where you just feel it's it, there's this, there's this almost like holy discomfort, where you're just like you know something's not quite right. I've got it, I've got to make a decision either way, and then, once you make it, and you know it's the right decision, that that pressure just kind of fizzles and you and you just feel this complete peace and you know, you know you're headed in the right direction.

Kelly Tshibaka:

so that's that's amazing, wow we're coming close up to a break, but, treg, I would like for you to tee up for us what some of your greatest wins are as Attorney General. What have you taken the most satisfaction in?

Niki Tshibaka:

Yeah, and if we tee those up, maybe you can list a few of them and on the other side of the break we can go deeper into them let's talk about covid litigation.

AG Treg Taylor:

Let's talk about shape saving the cruise ship season. Uh, statehood defense has been a fabulous thing that we've done, um, and then obviously we've had that recent litigation over there for respondent schools, uh, so those are some big ones that I'm proud of, because, and mostly because of the amount of people that are affected for good.

Kelly Tshibaka:

So, yeah, I'd love to talk more about those. That'd be great. So we're coming up on this break, so stay with us on the other side. I think it's really important. A lot of people don't really keep up with how much the law and litigation and even just how much a strong letter from an attorney general can affect the course of our daily lives. And if you've never heard of Treg Taylor before, he is very much all up in your business defending and advocating and protecting us as Alaskans and even signing on to litigation across the United States that affects what's happening in other states, and so we definitely want to tune in and hear about what you're doing, treg, and find out all that's going on, because the Attorney General has a huge impact on the rights, the civil rights and even our pocketbooks here in Alaska and across the United States.

Kelly Tshibaka:

So this is Stand. You're with Kelly and Niki Tshibaka on Stand. We're at standshoworg. We're with Treg Taylor, the Attorney General for the state of Alaska, and he has been for several years. I had the honor of working with him when I was Commissioner for Administration in the Governor's Cabinet. We'll pick up just on the other side of the break. Stand by the Emerald is Alaska's first multi-level senior activity program made specifically for elder Alaskans and those with physical disabilities. It's located in Midtown Anchorage and the facility offers unprecedented views of downtown Anchorage and the Inlet from a newly renovated building. The goal is to encourage a spirit of independence and foster community integration. Experience a new senior care program built by Alaskans for Alaskans.

Niki Tshibaka:

Call Julie today at 907-830-8212. We are back on stand with General Taylor. Attorney General Tregg Taylor, state Attorney General for the State of Alaska. Such an honor to have him on here with us on stand. General Taylor, on the on the previous segment, you had just teed up for us some of the incredible work that you and your staff have been doing in the Attorney General's office On behalf of the people of Alaska. You referenced some of the COVID litigation. You referenced some of the winds as it relates to the cruise ships issues, and you've also talked about what is a huge issue right now related to correspondence schools, which is something of great import for many Alaskans, because we all know that education is a big issue for all of us right now. So could you unpack each of those things and what you've been doing in those areas so that more Alaskans can hear about the incredible work your office has been doing?

AG Treg Taylor:

Yeah, no, I'll kind of go in order. I've been the attorney general for four years and, as I said in the previous segment, it seemed to have just overlapped directly with the Biden administration, which gave us plenty to do here, including defend against some of the COVID mandates that they were pushing out. So we entered five major COVID mandate pieces of litigation. Of course it wasn't the last one alone. One of the great parts about being the Attorney General during that time is I got to know my counterparts in the United States really well and worked really well in the United States and had sort of a division of labor because there was stuff coming at it so fast that it was really easy to lose track of something or not notice something. And so I have 26 sets of eyes, 26 attorneys general with their eyes on it. We've been helping to convert everything situation. So the one.

AG Treg Taylor:

So the CMS mandate, which was basically the vaccine for all healthcare workers, successful in getting that thrown out, which I think was huge. And then OSHA that was another big piece of litigation because they wanted to mandate any employer that had over 100 employees. They were mandating that employer, force all those employees to get the vaccine, and we were successful in that relationship. There was one that was directed at federal contractors, and so if you had any no matter if you're just a mom and pop shop that had a federal contract any federal contractor would have to mandate that all of their employees get the vaccine. And so, working with other states, we were successful in getting that thrown out. And then the last one, Head Start. You know they're forcing everybody teachers, these Head Start programs to get the vaccine, and we successfully got that impossible.

AG Treg Taylor:

And one we lost on it. We knew it was going to be an uphill battle, but we thought it was a worthy battle, and that was the vaccine requirement for all, uh, the military person. And that's because, clearly, the president has a lot of direct authority over military personnel. And so we knew that one was an uphill battle and we fought that one uh, lost in the courts, but it had the desire to affect, because Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin rescinded that mandate soon after that intervention. We managed to put it out there and sort of tried it in the American people's lives as well as the courts, and so that was the COVID intervention. So I think we saved a lot of people in this country from being forced to get the COVID shot and lose their jobs, which should never, ever, ever occur and hopefully will never occur again. Hopefully, we as a nation have learned that lesson.

Kelly Tshibaka:

Yeah, Treg.

Kelly Tshibaka:

It reminds me of a phrase that Niki and I will say to each other often, and I just want to remind our audience of it that some causes are so worthy that it is noble even to fail in their pursuit.

Kelly Tshibaka:

And so, as you were just saying, even though you knew it probably didn't have legal cause to be able to order the commander in chief to not administer the COVID shot on the troops, by pursuing that legal civil right for our men and women in service, we put so much social pressure on the Secretary of Defense that they were able to rescind it anyway. You knew you were probably going into a losing battle legally, but you won it in the court of public opinion and therefore we were able to protect a civil right freedom for the men and women in uniform. And I appreciate that, because we know that we're not going to win every battle, but it's still noble to pursue some of these battles anyway, and that's what it means to take a stand. I appreciate that you mentioned one on the other side of the break as well, which was about the cruise industry, which has such huge consequences for Alaska. What one was that about?

AG Treg Taylor:

So that one was basically through the COVID mandate for requirements for vaccine cruise ships, ports of entry, all the different requirements basically were going to shut cruise areas. There was sort of a double whammy at this time in that not only that, but for the Alaska cruise season all of the Canadian ports were closed and so that under law they didn't have to stop at these foreign ports in order to make the voyage to Alaska. And so it was twofold. On that we joined forces with Florida, which obviously has a big concern about cruise ship stoppage, and so we joined forces with Ashley Mooney down in Florida, who's now the senator representing Florida, and we were successful in that litigation. And then we worked very closely with both of our congressional delegations to get a waiver for that requirements delegations, to get a way for that to be a requirement. So those acts prevented cruise ships from coming directly from the Seattle ports to Alaska without stopping in the field of course. So that was a big win.

AG Treg Taylor:

Because you know the Southeast, you know we don't have the timber industry and the things to have and a lot of these small towns, a lot of these small businesses, small restaurants. They live and die by the food industry and having that disrupted for multiple years would have had devastating effects. I've already seen. I'm sitting in Juneau in my office and I can look at restaurants that no longer exist, just because of the time here. There's other litigation I could talk about too. The statehood defense stuff's really kind of interesting. Those are the potatoes of sort of Alaska's response to all the Biden executive orders and the against the record in Alaska.

Niki Tshibaka:

Yeah, please unpack that.

AG Treg Taylor:

Yeah. So we knew right away that Alaska was going to be a target of the Biden administration. He did what he that Alaska was going to be targeted by the administration. We made it. We did what he said he was going to do during this campaign. So we knew Alaska was going to be a target. So we came up with the other state, the Defense Fund. We went to the legislature for additional funding to help that fight because we knew the battle was coming and we basically pulled the group. It was the commissioner of DNR, commissioner of Fish and Game and commissioner of DDC and myself.

AG Treg Taylor:

We met every week and continue to meet every week on these issues to try to figure out what battles are coming, how to prepare for them, what science do we need Fish and Game to do or DBC to do in order to win, to ultimately be successful in these legal battles? And again, because of that extra funding that the legislature gave us to take that on, we have been very successful and we currently have over 80 lawsuits against the government and the basis of statehood defense is hey, alaskans should decide the destiny of Alaska, right? Not a federal bureaucrat in Washington DC. And so this is all about making sure the feds respect the promises they made in Alaska statehood and allow Alaska to determine its future. And so that's sort of what statehood and allow Alaska to determine its future? And so that's sort of what state of defense some of our big wins, you know, might not seem like a big deal to most people that aren't even know that, like the polar bear incident, will take.

AG Treg Taylor:

If that had gone awry we'd literally have stopped production on the North Slope because polar bear critical habitat. We were successful in that. We were able to preserve and have enough capacity for that operation on North Slope to continue and also to allow for willow to go in Because again, if that had gone a different way, willow would never have been allowed to move. We kept commercial Chinook pushing going on in the southeast Alaska to take on some of the environmental issues that wanted to shut that down in the federal government.

AG Treg Taylor:

And then we have a critical habitat for ice seals. You know there's millions and millions of ice seals. It's a healthy population. But what the Biden administration was doing with all this critical habitat and endangered species listings is they were taking the science and they were looking, they're modeling it out. 100 years For 100 years could ice seals be in danger and, of course, using their model and their logic, they came up with the fact oh yeah, in 100 years they're going to be a species that's almost extinct. And so we fought that. And if you look at the designation for critical habitat, it basically shuts down any type of commercial use of those waters or land that encompasses that critical habitat.

AG Treg Taylor:

And what's really unfair is that it encompassed, like, the entire coast of Alaska. Now if you look at critical habitat on the east coast, different story, right, because again, alaska is an easy target. So critical habitat for species like the Atlantic right whale, there are little tiny pockets of critical habitat that allow still commercial activity to continue to go on around it. But in Alaska they were using that as a weapon. They were trying to weaponize critical habitat and prevent us from doing any additional mining in that critical habitat, any offshore drilling that may occur in the future, and so that was a big win for the state as well.

Kelly Tshibaka:

They were doing the same thing with how they were expanding definition of clean water and anything that was essentially defined as a puddle became protected waters and just these really expansive regulations. You heard you were talking about it, the governor was talking about it, Senator Sullivan was talking about it, about how expansive they made the regulatory authority to just really shut down and target everything in Alaska to just turn us into a national park. It was their 30 by 30 agenda to have 30 percent of the United States water and land shut down by 2030. And the main place they were targeting was here. So, yeah, you were on full defense. It's you. You got to be that fighter pilot, but from from the courtroom. Yeah, For the state of Alaska pilot, but from from the courtroom.

AG Treg Taylor:

Yeah, for the state of Alaska.

AG Treg Taylor:

Luckily I've got a great cohort of attorneys you know, yeah, people don't realize we do both the criminal prosecution side Alaska's kind of community to them, to all criminal prosecution at least all felonies, some of the municipalities, maybe some of the misdemeanors, but then the other half of the Department of Law does all the civil stuff. So all this defensive, defensive statement um that that went on was with our folks and with the additional funds from the legislature we were able to bring in the outside counsel with the expertise um to set some of these cases up for um us supreme court. And I still think that some of these we're still hoping some of these lawsuits that serve to play the US Supreme Court will be heard.

Kelly Tshibaka:

It would be good if they do, because I think we need the legal precedent to be able to stand on for 10th Amendment purposes for states' rights, so that we are able to draw that line in the sand. We're up on a break, so let's take the break audience and we'll come back with Treg Taylor on the other side. And Attorney General Taylor, we want to talk to you about education and we know that Trump is looking to disband or will be disbanding. I'm sure that there will be some legal challenges to that to the Department of Education. We want to talk about how that's going to affect Alaska and some of the challenges that we've faced here in Alaska to homeschooling and private education and funding for education. We want to get all your thoughts on that on the other side of the break, so stand by, we'll be right back after this.

Kelly Tshibaka:

You're on stand with Kelly and Niki Tshibaka. At Holquist Homes. They believe in providing the highest level of quality at the lowest possible price. Over 40 years and 4,000 homes later, value and pride continue to be the core of their philosophy while building for Alaskan families. They currently have a variety of new developments in South Anchorage, upper and Lower Hillside and Eagle River. At Holquist Homes. They value the satisfaction of their buyers by building homes that their buyers are proud to own. Holquist Homes. They value the satisfaction of their buyers by building homes that their buyers are proud to own. Holquist Homes. Welcome back to Stand with Kelly and Niki Tshibaka. We're with Attorney General Taylor. I'm totally starting with that. Over the break, the Attorney General told us that he has been awarded by the Anchorage Daily News as Worst Legislator of the Year because he's actually been doing things and making an impact, which I really appreciate, because when you take a stand, people are going to give you flack for it, and I think it's important to wear that as a badge of honor. So I'm very proud of you, Attorney General.

Niki Tshibaka:

For being effective in the executive function that you have so much so that, yeah.

Kelly Tshibaka:

When your adversaries give you a badge for it, it's something to wear with pride, so just hang that on your wall.

AG Treg Taylor:

I just want to. It's the importance of being grounded right and always knowing what you stand for and what you value Because, man, there's so much pressure to do the wrong thing sometimes or ignore things or let things go. It's constant pressure, especially from a BBA.

Kelly Tshibaka:

Yeah. So I have people who care about me very much and who watch the hate that I get on social media on a daily basis from what people would call trolls, and they reach out to me with great concern regularly. Would call trolls and they reach out to me with great concern regularly and I tell them that I don't care, because if you're effective, then you're going to get more comments against you, but if you're ineffective, then nobody is going to comment at all. So I actually use it as a measure of how effective I'm being at influencing and affecting things, and that's what I take your ADN badge as being. If you weren't doing anything, you wouldn't be getting any heat.

Niki Tshibaka:

So it's good for people to be in a position where people are coming against you when you're doing the right thing. At least like your conscience is clear. That's right you have a clear conscience. All of that noise just doesn't matter, Because you know that you're on the right track.

Kelly Tshibaka:

So you've really taken a stand on things like parental rights and on education here in Alaska. For those who aren't caught up, we do have a major education problem. Many times we're rated 51st in the nation of 50 states as far as our education quality. When I grew up here in Anchorage, we were around the top 20. And so it's been. I would say maybe an intentional decline in the last several decades in order to drop from where we were to where we are.

Kelly Tshibaka:

So, General Taylor, I wanted to ask you what have you been doing to address this? What's your take on Trump's effort to abolish or diminish the Department of Education? He's sending some of those functions over to other departments. How will that affect us? And then, Niki and I have been particularly concerned recently about the efforts in the court system and in the legislature. To well, I would just say create a monopoly of public school funding only in Alaska and stop all funding for homeschool efforts, private schools. I think many of us participate in the stipend funding from the state to help our kids in extracurricular activities. I just wanted to kind of toss the ball to you and see what's your take on this as our head attorney in the state to protect education and school choice and parental rights for Alaskans.

AG Treg Taylor:

Yeah, no, you know, one of the blessings of COVID was the spotlight on our education system, that's right.

AG Treg Taylor:

You know, without COVID we probably wouldn't have this uprising that you see, as far as people demanding results from their education system, demanding choices, and you know I, obviously, obviously, you know I've got six kids, so I constantly worry about what kind of education they're getting. Uh, and then you know, as a parent of six kids, you also know that each kid is so different, so one way of doing things isn't going to be the best for each kid. Prime example my oldest place, um, she, she did a highly gifted program in the West. Now she was likely the only conservative person in that entire program. She took care of us constantly.

AG Treg Taylor:

But I knew, because I knew my daughter Quincy, I knew what she was made of, I knew her personality, I knew she could form a map and that she could rise to the occasion.

AG Treg Taylor:

She could rise to it, rise to it right, and um, the occasion. And so some of my other children, I probably wouldn't put them in that position, right, because I know them and I. They're still growing, they're still learning, they're still developing sort of that backbone and so, uh, it's really nice for a parent to be able to have educational choice like should I play? Where is gonna be the best of this. So it's gonna be like this and you've mentioned it the dreadful scores that Alaska gets, despite being one of the highest funded states out there and so you wanna protect what is working and right now and we'll talk about that in a little bit but first I want to address what you talked about with Trump and the Department of Education and his wanting to sort of do away with the Department of Education. I'm going to pick up and read to your audience what the US Constitution has to say about education. It's not in the US Constitution constitution, right, because it was clearlya matter for states and uh, I was holding my breath.

Kelly Tshibaka:

I was like what's he gonna read?

AG Treg Taylor:

yeah, that I like I I'm like, oh, maybe they've added something our founders clearly wanted education to be controlled by states.

Kelly Tshibaka:

And in.

AG Treg Taylor:

Amendment 10, right, that's right. Hey, whatever powers are not reserved for themselves, are reserved for states. Education is a state issue.

AG Treg Taylor:

And what makes something like the Department of Education so dangerous is because it forces uniformity throughout the entire United States. Right now we're seeing this on an economic side. Right, we're seeing states explore with tax deductions or tax relief or implementing certain policies or deregulating. We're seeing states competing for economic growth and if there was an edict from Washington DC that said you can't do that, then we wouldn't see this, this gloomy, going around the United States and people are voting with their feet. Right, we're not European. We don't stay in the same place our entire lives. We're going to move where we can live the American dream best, right.

Kelly Tshibaka:

Well, it's a good point. If none of your kids are the same, why would we assume any of the states are the same about education?

AG Treg Taylor:

Well, yeah, no, exactly Well, Alaska could be exhibit one of them. What's good for a kid in Plain Hope isn't necessarily good for a kid at West High School, that's right.

AG Treg Taylor:

And any time you get, you know the federal government has so much control, not because of what they're allowed to do in the Constitution. They have control because they give out just free money, right, and you and I both know there's no such thing as free money. We pay for it, right, we're the taxpayer, so we're putting the bill, and that money comes with requirements, it comes with restrictions, it comes with duties and obligations. So, um, and that's how they've been able to control what goes on in the classroom so closely. And so I guess what I'm all for, right, I'm all for taking that money and sending it to the states to learn states to use it and to have the ability of states to experiment with what works best, try different programs, try out different things, and then we as a state can look around who's doing it. Well, I mean, we saw that with reading right. Florida reading scores used to be one of the worst Alabama reading scores used to be one of the worst.

AG Treg Taylor:

Yet all of a sudden, in a few years they're at near the top of the nation. It's like when you look at a state you say, well, what are they doing right? State to say, well, what are they doing right, and why can't we do that? And so we saw a little patent legislation that was passed. Now we didn't get everything they were doing in that legislation because we had to compromise, because that's how legislation worked, um, but we got some of that and uh, and hopefully we'll see a corresponding increase in the ability of our children to read that level right, because right now it was.

AG Treg Taylor:

The numbers for Alaska are dismal and that affects not only our future workforce, because we're going to need a future workforce. If we get half the projects that President Trump imagines for or wishes for Alaska, we're going to need a workforce and it also affects current. I don't know how many times I've tried to recruit attorneys from out of state friends, people I know good work and then you reach out and the first thing, one of the first things they do is do what our schools do because they want the best for the kids, and I've been told no many, many times. Because they look at our school performance and they say there's no way I'm going to move my family to Alaska. So it affects future workforce, current workforce. So it's a big issue to grapple with and we've seen that just increasing spending isn't the answer. That's what we've been doing and our scores continue to be great. So I think the Department of Education probably never had a place under the Constitution and so seeing that go away is not going to be. They're not going to be. It's going to be a good thing for the states. It'll give them more control, more ability to experiment, more ability to do things. They know that their kids need um and so um. That's that in that show on the correspondence school. So we do. We do have a pretty good system. In Alaska we have a correspondence school in the Lopins. We've got 22,000 kids that are sort of tailoring their educational needs, and the correspondence is a lot more problem. It is a public school, it's guided by a public school teacher, you get a public degree. It's a public school education. But it provides a lot of choice and so, as many well know, if anybody has anybody in that program, they certainly know.

AG Treg Taylor:

But the NEA decided they didn't like that choice, they didn't like the parents being able to take their kids out of curriculum school. They wanted to force those kids to be in a prison, and so, and they hired Scott Kendall to go out and attack that authorizing statute for them. And so they did, and we defended that and ultimately we lost to the in the Superior Court, which was surprising. And but we won the Alaska Supreme Court, where we were able to say that that statute is constitutional because they were trying to get the whole program. Now they've come back since then. Right, they've come back and sued based upon what we call an as-applied charge.

AG Treg Taylor:

So, as school districts implement this Correspondence to Memorial Law Program per statute, as they implement it, they might be implementing it, according to Scott Kendall and the NEA, in a way that violates the Constitution. So we're getting ready to defend that. Obviously, that's ongoing litigation. That barely started. They brought in four school districts and so we're gonna be defending school districts' right to be as nimble and as uh, as, uh, as open as they can be in that program because, again, the more choices you have, the better off that kid's going to be. And so we'll see what happens over the next. Uh, it'll probably be a pretty slow moving litigation because they're going to subpoenaed out there because they're asking for all these documents, and so it's gonna be a pretty document intensive fight, but hopefully at the end of the day we can preserve those that program for the 22,000 skids that are using it. We'll see what the courts say Again. It's quite worthy to be a part of.

Niki Tshibaka:

That's amazing. Well, you know, I just listening to all of that. It just reminds me when you're in a fight like that and you and you know that you're right it makes all of the difference Because really the folks on the other side of this Kendall and the NEA it's more about power and money on their side, and the fight that the Dunleavy administration and you and your office are doing is for the kids and their futures, and so hopefully the court will get it right the Superior Court level this time, at least on this particular issue and you won't have to go all the way up to the Supreme Court. Want to wrap this up, sweetheart?

Kelly Tshibaka:

Yeah, I appreciate you taking up the fight. You know you think about the students involved in there. A lot of the kids who have learning disabilities, special needs they don't have all their needs met in the brick and mortar school or a lot of times. Also, the kids who need accommodations, they're the ones who are competing in our sports programs or at the Olympic level. And they're the ones who are competing in our sports programs or at the Olympic level and they're the ones who are out of state or, you know, are our best students in a lot of ways and they can't show up Monday through Friday at a public school and so they're needing that accommodation and we want to support students at the different ends of the learning spectrum in these accommodations.

Kelly Tshibaka:

And that's Alaska is known for its libertarian lifestyle for a reason. Accommodations and that's Alaska is known for its libertarian lifestyle for a reason. And forcing people into conformity, as we were talking about earlier, is kind of antithetical to our Alaskan spirit. So appreciate you taking up that fight and thank you for being with us today. Attorney General Taylor, we appreciate all the fight that you're taking up. This has been, attorney General Taylor, with us on stand. We're going to pick up on the other side of the break me and Niki and we wish you all the best this week in Juneau Treg. We hope that it goes well as you take up the fight with the Juneau legislature.

Niki Tshibaka:

Thank you, General Taylor, and thank you for the stand that you're taking for the people of Alaska.

AG Treg Taylor:

No, thank you for letting me get the message out. This is fantastic If I could give accolades to all the attorneys that work so hard and the department of law, day in and day out to make sure that you get these things that we need in Alaska. If there's any opportunity I can do that, I'm going to go back and do it. So thank you so much.

Kelly Tshibaka:

Yep, absolutely, we'll be back. We'll pick up on the other side of this break. Stand by. Welcome back to Stand. We're on our last segment. You're with Kelly and Niki Tshibaka.

Kelly Tshibaka:

That was an amazing interview we just had with Treg Taylor, our current Attorney General for the state of Alaska. The part of the interview that stood out to me the most, or that had the biggest impact on me, was when he told his story about that big sacrifice he made at the beginning of his journey, when he gave up on his lifelong dream to go into the Air Force and instead pivoted and became a lawyer and in a sense, you know he followed his dream and has become a fighter for all Alaskans and has actually stood up for all Americans in joining these lawsuits against the Biden administration that are going to continue to play out into the Trump administration's tenure, as we set precedent for law across the country. But it was a really hard decision to have to sit there without any cause but follow what he really felt like the Lord was telling him to do and walk away from that dream. And we saw how much emotion he has, even all these decades later, of giving up on a dream like that. How did that affect you?

Niki Tshibaka:

You know, it was just a really stirring reminder of the importance of courage to follow through on our convictions and that when we do that, good things happen. It doesn't necessarily mean life is easy, but we can lay our heads on our pillows and our consciences can be at peace about it. And I really appreciated this in particular about it. I appreciated General Taylor's vulnerability, his transparency and, of course, the courage he showed in that decision, because we are all benefiting right from that decision. All these years later I will not say decades, because, general Taylor, you are not that old but I will say all of these years later, alaskans are benefiting from the courage of that decision. And in addition to that, when we make those little in this case it was a big choice but those decisions to follow our conscience, to follow what we believe we're being led to do and to do what's right, it becomes a pattern in our lives. It eventually becomes our character and ultimately becomes our destiny.

Kelly Tshibaka:

Yeah.

Niki Tshibaka:

And I think we heard that in General Taylor's story because, like you said, he went from, he always had that fight in him, right where he wanted to do something to serve his country to serve his fellow man and it was like God just redirected him and said this is where I want you to go and this is what I want you to do.

Niki Tshibaka:

And he's been doing it ever since, and we just heard about the amazing work that he and the Department of Law have been doing, along with other attorneys general across the country, to not only undo what the Biden administration has done to really unravel the fabric of our democracy in a lot of ways and harm Alaska, but also to take more of a proactive stance, I think, going forward with the Trump administration. We have an administration now that is you can say whatever you think of it, whether you like it or not. One thing you can say about this administration is they are taking incredibly strong, bold, proactive moves to establish the vision that Trump has for America and America's future and that we all voted him into office to execute.

Kelly Tshibaka:

Those are all hard decisions. I was curious if you had a story about a time you had to make a decision like General Taylor did. I know I have two stories I thought would be interesting to share and I imagine that you have a story or two as well, having shared life with you. I remember at the beginning of our marriage I was accepted to Oxford, which at the time had been my lifelong dream, similar to what Treg Taylor shared with us.

Niki Tshibaka:

Well, I was going to say that was my first major courageous decision was choosing to ask you to marry me. That took a lot of courage.

Kelly Tshibaka:

Actually, that might be a really good story to share.

Niki Tshibaka:

I will not share that publicly yet Go ahead, our engagement story. That's a really great story. Oh my goodness.

Kelly Tshibaka:

For another time maybe. So, having gotten into the PhD program at Oxford, we faced a decision where we could have been separated for several years, while Niki started his law career and I pursued the PhD, or we could have chosen to do what was best for our marriage, and instead I made the choice to do what was best for our marriage, and that required laying down this big dream. And the big dream would have been to have had a PhD in theology and got accepted to one of the colleges at Oxford, and that was all in the bag. But then, all these years later, as Niki knows, we ended up planting and pastoring a church, and we've now been doing that for 19 years, and so we have all the benefits that would have come with the seminary degree, but without having sacrificed our marriage. So, in the same way that Treg Taylor's story worked out, he ends up fighting for Alaskans and Americans, but in a different way than he thought his path would originally go.

Kelly Tshibaka:

And another one that I thought that came to mind was just about how, in my first job out of law school, I worked for the Department of Justice and my boss brought a case to me where he asked me to reinvestigate an investigation that had been done by our inspector general's office.

Kelly Tshibaka:

I was supposed to just edit it and finalize it, make sure it was good for publication. The investigators had looked into allegations that there had been physical abuse by guards at a prison in New York against inmates that had been arrested after September 11th on suspicion that they'd been involved. They hadn't been involved, but they said there had been no abuse and the inspector general thought that there were some holes in the case, so he asked me to reinvestigate it. I was just out of law school and there were some things I thought really needed to be pressed in on and I just you know, like you said, Niki, with that dogged determination, that there was just something here that didn't seem right. I ended up really digging into the case and not letting go until I got to the bottom of it, including finding hundreds of videotapes that the heads of the Department of Justice had said had been destroyed, but they hadn't been, and they showed evidence that the guards badly abused these detainees.

Niki Tshibaka:

Was this the Department of Justice or the Bureau of Prisons that said they were destroyed?

Kelly Tshibaka:

The Department of Justice had said they were destroyed, as well as the Bureau of Prisons. But the BOP is in the Department of Justice and this case involved the FBI, the DOJ, the BOP and people even at the head of the Department of Justice, and so it goes all the way up to the US Supreme Court because of what we found in this investigation that I did and it ends up. I just recently realized it took 20 years for them to resolve and finalize this entire case. Several of the guards ended up getting terminated. Later one of the guards, one of the prison captain, ends up going to jail and they ended up paying out the detainees over a million dollars who were the defendants in the case or who brought the case. So I thought that was an interesting example as well just things early in my career of you know, taking a stand and taking courage and saying you know there's something here worth fighting for and not backing down. What's a story you have?

Niki Tshibaka:

Well, I mean, I, you know, I mean I don't like to talk about my stories too much, so I, I, I'd like to actually, like I said, my biggest one is and my best and wonderful, most courageous decision was marrying.

Kelly Tshibaka:

Most courageous. That was terrifying.

Niki Tshibaka:

And it takes courage every day to walk along this side this formidable and amazing woman. But I wanted to get back to General Taylor's work as an attorney general. He talked about education.

Kelly Tshibaka:

Oh yeah.

Niki Tshibaka:

Being an incredibly important thing that's near and dear to his heart. Near and dear to the hearts of, I know, of all of us Alaskans and, of course, across the country, because right now we're seeing a huge sea change and a seismic tectonic shift in how education is being handled now, with the Department of Education effectively from a practical standpoint, the Department of Education effectively from a practical standpoint, essentially being wound- down Right and such, so that the federal monies can actually be placed in the hands of our states, our state leaders, because we're the ones who know best how to take care of and educate our kids.

Niki Tshibaka:

We have a very diverse system across this country, very diverse communities struggling with different kinds of things, and so to have one size fits all kinds of approaches coming up from the federal government has never been the best way.

Kelly Tshibaka:

And I agree that we will do a better job with determining that if everybody's involved. I'm very concerned about decisions that are being made at the local level in education in Alaska when we have dropped so substantially from ranking pretty high when I was in public school here to now being often number 51 in a United States of 50 states in terms of education scores.

Niki Tshibaka:

Yeah, no, that's, that's.

Niki Tshibaka:

But what I was really gratified and encouraged to hear was General Taylor's passion for that subject and seeing what we can do, you know, from a policy standpoint, what are the things that he can do in his position and in working with the governor and working with the Trump administration, to really up our game, Because we're denying our kids the future that they all deserve to have when we don't meet our basic responsibilities of just educating, just teaching them how to read and do math Rather than some of the other. I'm not even going to get into it, but the other things that we seem to have been focusing on getting back to the basics and the foundations of what are the things that they need to know in order to flourish.

Kelly Tshibaka:

Succeed, that's right.

Niki Tshibaka:

The things needed for human flourishing, and reading and writing and arithmetic has always been at least a basic foundation of that. Leave the values to the parents.

Kelly Tshibaka:

Right.

Niki Tshibaka:

Focus on the basics of what they need to feed their brains.

Kelly Tshibaka:

I think that's a wonderful example of how well this attorney general has fought for the values and rights of Alaskans and I appreciate, like you said, the courage that Treg Taylor has demonstrated in taking on the fight with the Biden administration and the overreach of government in Alaska and on behalf of Alaskans, and in partnering with other Attorney Generals across the United States in order to protect and preserve the rights of all Americans. We are so grateful that Treg Taylor came on the episode. Thank you, Treg, and we are looking forward to having another amazing episode of Stand. You are with Kelly and Niki Tshibaka and we are hoping to make courage contagious. You can find all of our episodes at standshoworg and we will be happy to see you on our next show. Stand by and stand strong and stand firm.

People on this episode

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Kelly Tshibaka

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Contributor

Niki Tshibaka

Host