Untamed Pursuits
Embark on a wild adventure like never before with the groundbreaking podcast, "Untamed Pursuits."
Join the intrepid duo of renowned author and outdoor enthusiast, Ridr Knowlton, alongside the seasoned professional fishing guide, Jamie Pistilli, as they traverse the globe in pursuit of the world's most exciting fishing and hunting destinations, and the fascinating creatures that live there. From the lush rainforests of the Amazon to the icy depths of the Arctic Circle, each episode promises heart-pounding encounters, captivating tales, and invaluable insights into the natural world.
With Ridr's profound storytelling and Jamie's unparalleled expertise, prepare to be transported to the front lines of adventure, where every roar, splash, and rustle ignites the senses and leaves listeners on the edge of their seats. "Untamed Pursuits" isn't just a podcast—it's an adrenaline-fueled odyssey that will redefine your perception of nature and leave you craving more. Buckle up for the ride of a lifetime!
Untamed Pursuits
Episode 7: Bucket List 2
Remember the thrill of your first fishing trip or that unforgettable taste of Breyers Mint Chip ice cream? Join us as Jamie Pistilli and Ryder Knowlton take a walk down memory lane, sharing stories that bring back the joy of childhood and the simple pleasures that bind us all. From the practical repurposing of Chock Full o' Nuts coffee cans to the never-ending quest to organize fishing gear, this episode is a delightful blend of nostalgia and the spirit of adventure. You'll be transported into moments that remind us of the importance of planning and dreaming about new angling destinations.
Ever wondered why catching a barracuda could be as thrilling as a tarpon? Discover the exhilarating world of predator fish as we recount stories of acrobatic barracuda battles and the unforgettable experiences of fly fishing for sharks. With tales of spinner sharks in the Keys and mako sharks off the West Coast, this episode captures the essence of an angler's spirit—always seeking the next big catch. We even explore the wild allure of tigerfish, comparing their fierce nature to muskie, and adding them to our ever-growing bucket list of fishing conquests.
Embark on an African adventure with us as we dive into the untapped hunting and fishing hotspots of the continent. From the Luangwa Valley to the Okavango Delta, we share tips on planning efficient trips that make the most of your time and resources. Journey with us to South America, where the excitement of targeting peacock bass and golden dorado in the Amazon awaits. Reflecting on these unique ecosystems and cultures, we celebrate the enriching nature of outdoor adventures.
Back in 2016,. Frank and I had a vision to amass the single largest database of muskie angling education material anywhere in the world.
Speaker 2:Our dream was to harness the knowledge of this amazing community and share it with passionate anglers just like you.
Speaker 1:Thus the Ugly Pike podcast was born and quickly grew to become one of the top fishing podcasts in North America.
Speaker 2:Step into the world of angling adventures and embrace the thrill of the catch with the Ugly Pike Podcast. Join us on our quest to understand what makes us different as anglers and to uncover what it takes to go after the infamous fish of 10,000 casts.
Speaker 1:The Ugly Pike Podcast isn't just about fishing. It's about creating a tight-knit community of passionate anglers who share the same love for the sport. Through laughter, through camaraderie and an unwavering spirit of adventure, this podcast will bring people together.
Speaker 2:Subscribe now and never miss a moment of our angling adventures. Tight lines everyone.
Speaker 1:Find Ugly Pike now on Spotify, apple Podcasts or wherever else you get your podcasts.
Speaker 3:Welcome back to the Untamed Pursuits podcast on the Outdoor Journal Radio Podcast Network. I'm your host, Jamie Pasilli, here with Ryder Nolte down in the Carolinas. Ryder, what's going on?
Speaker 4:Hey Jamie, how are you doing this morning?
Speaker 3:I'm doing great man. We're into the peak of things. Fish are biting, the weather's beautiful and, yeah, it's just enjoying summer. What about you? I?
Speaker 4:had a blast in the past. The other day we were grocery shopping and when I was growing up on the farm in central New York, there's three things that I always remember from our kitchens growing up that we always had, you know, in the kitchen or in the freezer. One was a half gallon of Breyers Mint Chip ice cream. We always had a half gallon of Breyers Mint Chip ice cream. We always had a half gallon of Breyers Mint Chip. And then my folks would always have this giant gallon steel container of Charles potato chips. And then the only coffee we could afford was the can of chock full of nuts, another steel can of chock full of nuts coffee. And those were like staples of my childhood of choc-full of nuts coffee. And those were like staples of my childhood.
Speaker 4:And we were shopping the other day and going down the coffee row with all the fancy you know, all the new fancy coffees you can get and right in the middle was an old steel can of choc-full of nuts and I was like, oh my God, we've got to get this, and so I just finished up. I just finished up. All the chock full of nuts coffee took a couple weeks. And the real fun part of that, as you know, man is. Now I get to decide what to do with a steel can. Am I going to put worms in there? Am I going to put nails in there? Screws, what do I get to use it for?
Speaker 3:Well, that's funny, those little cans right. I think it's funny. You mentioned that I was going through my garage and just trying to get organized because in the middle of fishing season I got stuff everywhere. I got walleye trip, muskie trip, and I'm kind of, you know, unpacking and packing up the boat and I, I too, have a bunch of cans right and I have that one bag full of wires like from like 1987 that I can't throw out, and the cans too. I got some old flies. I got some old flies, I got some old rusty hooks and I guess I'm on my way to being a hoarder in the garage. I really need to just get rid of some stuff.
Speaker 4:It's such a fantastic thing. And what's really great is, I mean, obviously I'm having a cup of coffee right now talking to you, but I love a good cup of coffee and it was fun to reminisce having the old chock full of nuts coffee. But I was thoroughly and very sincerely excited about getting the steel can and I'm like, oh man, this is going to be awesome. I can figure out what. Does you know? What am I going to throw in there? Right now? It's just got a bunch of old pennies and nickels from the you know the baseboards of my pickup truck. But, um, anyhow, it was, it was. It was so cool and I, and even I even called my folks and I talked to my mom and dad.
Speaker 4:I was like you're not going to believe what I'm hanging in my you know, holding my hand right now, I got an old steel can or chock full of nuts coffee. It's fantastic.
Speaker 3:Oh, that's awesome. I'm enjoying my coffee and I hope our listeners are enjoying a cup too, as they listen to us chat and tell stories here. Our last time we got together we were talking about bucket lists and as soon as we hung up I started thinking and dreaming again, and I think we need to kind of keep going down that rabbit hole of places we like to go. I think our podcast, Untamed Pursuits, is really about the pursuit and we've been blessed to have gone on some amazing trips, and we've been blessed to have gone on some amazing trips and I think the planning and the you know, putting stuff in the calendar is really what you know brings us together and really what makes life important.
Speaker 4:Well, you just, man, did you hit on an interesting thing? It's, you know, the pursuit of new adventures is so foundational right To the idea of this podcast and what we talk about. And obviously we meet interesting folks, we get a great chance to talk to fascinating people in these different areas. But it all comes back to, you know, the interest of pursuing new adventures. And one of the really fun things for me, I would say it's sometimes I enjoy it almost as much as the trip itself, you know, is the planning.
Speaker 4:You and I talk about leaning back in the chair and looking at a map and figuring out, oh man, you know where could we go next, or you know what's a place that would like to go someday.
Speaker 4:And then we talked, I think on the last show, about getting it written down in the calendar. You know, just that simple little step of writing it or typing it into the calendar kind of, you know, makes it more real. But once you've decided to do it and you actually, you know, book that trip, whether it's, you know, booking a guide or just booking a, you know, a room in a cheap motel, you know near the stream, it doesn't make any difference. Then you get a chance to start really researching and planning it and you know some of these trips we do. You know we're planning well over a year in advance. You know, and God man, how much fun do you have just preparing for the trip by reading, you know watching pod watching, you know YouTube shows or listening to podcasts about that area? Or what I love to do is just read endlessly about the place. You know, sometimes six, 12 months before you even go. I love the preparation.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so do I, and you know I usually do get a guide when I'm in a different part of the world. But I also do really spend a lot of time kind of planning out my trip. I'll always bring a spinning rod and a fly rod and, you know, have kind of a trusty box of my kind of patterns, fly patterns and lures that work all over the world and try to. It's pretty cool to go on a place and catch a fish by yourself without any guidance and then usually the guide will point you in that direction. You realize that half the stuff you brought is stuff that doesn't work there, but that's half the fun of the plan.
Speaker 4:Oh, it's half the fun. Oh, it's half the fun. And you know one of the things I know where I think today we're just going to keep, you know, jabbing about bucket list places and talking about these different interesting places. And you know one of the really neat things you know we've called them. You know you call it a twofer. You know, kind of doubling up is where you can take a trip. Maybe you're going somewhere and realize, holy cow, while I'm there, you know there's a great stream. That's not far. You know why the heck wouldn't we just stop and check that place out? And we'll talk a little bit about that, combining trips right into bucket lists. And then you know a comment you just made that's so true, is those magic flies. We can almost do a podcast just on this, jamie, but talk about the flies that can, truly can work anywhere.
Speaker 4:I mean you know whether it's clousers or woolly buggers or just obviously your classic streamers. I mean there's, it would be fascinating to do a deep dive into those. You know what are the half dozen or what are the dozen flies that you could literally fish anywhere in the world and catch fish, and that's, of course, that's another whole podcast. But all that comes into the prep for these trips is so cool.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I remember I was down in the Bahamas and I'd never caught a bonefish before and I brought down an eight weight and you know a couple of little shrimp patterns and this and that. And I was also told that there was a lot of told or read that there was a lot of Kudas there. So I brought Kuda supplies too, so kind of hit the beach and then, sure enough, I see a school of kudas and I had my bonefish stuff on. So I retie everything and by the time I got going kudas were gone. I kept walking down the beach looking for more. And then, sure enough, school of bonefish. So I had to retie again and you know, I ended up catching my first and second bone. But you, you kind of have to stick to the plan right, because the bonefish setup and then the akuta setup is way different. And you know, sure akuta might take anything but bonefish definitely won't.
Speaker 4:Oh for sure. Well, as you said, with akuta, you know it's not only the fly, but you've got that bite tip. You know some element of wire or something. But what's great about akuta? It's kind of like what you've talked about. You know you and I have talked about the difference of Pike and Muskie. You know Muskie is a journey and Pike's just fun and and and and this is. You know there's a lot of similarities there. You know the CUDA are just so darn fun, you know, and you throw. You know, put 18 inches of wire on there and you can throw whatever cool fly you want to see if something will leak. You can tie that to the end of 18 inches of wire.
Speaker 4:Chances are a kuda is going to absolutely destroy it. And then what's so great about kuda? Totally underrated fish, you know, falls into that category, like carp or, in your case you know, garb, which is such a fun sight cast. Kuda is the same thing because they jump. People don't realize what an acrobatic aerial fight, a kuda fight is. You know barracuda, cool fish and definitely one of those fish you know you can add on to some of these bucket list places where you're like, hey, we may be going there to try to look for tarpon or permit or bonefish, as you said. But heck, yeah, I'm going to bring in maybe an extra stout rod and definitely bring in, you know, a couple of wire leaders.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, the kudas I think for for a lot of guides down south too, are the oh well, the target species you wanted to catch ie the permit or the, the tarpon are not available. So I, as a guide, I want you to catch something right, and usually the kudas are already available. I had, uh, I was down in the keys and trying for for uh tarpon one day and they weren't going and the guide said, hey, I got a good cuda spot and I said all right, and I hooked up with a little snapper and it was coming in and sure enough, cuda came up and ate it in half and right at the boat, right. So I kind of did my Canadian or musky technique. I just started figure-eating the snapper head really quickly and sure enough it came back and I ended up getting a 51-inch Kuda oh my gosh On a figurated head.
Speaker 4:On a figurated head.
Speaker 3:The guy looked at me like that's a new one. I'm like ha ha.
Speaker 4:Tell me this At the end of that trip, when you look back at all those, did you get a good picture of the Kuda?
Speaker 3:when you look back at all those, did you get a good picture of the CUDA? I sure did, hoping you did, I sure did. I'll have to find it. It is uh not in the digital format. It's in one of my old, uh you know, scrapbooks of, of yesteryear. But uh, I still go through those once in a while if I need a little, uh PFA, you know, positive fishing attitude, uh, excitement in my life going through, uh, some of the old trips that we had it's so funny because you know when you find that picture, first of all I want to see it.
Speaker 4:You and I are going to be together fishing in a couple of weeks. Maybe we can you throw it in your bag. I'd love to see that picture. And what's funny is you know you go on a trip like that and that Cuda picture may end up becoming your favorite picture the whole trip, because they're such a cool. I mean, what a great fish to get a picture of. It's kind of like the carp pictures and the gar pictures, right, I mean you look at it and you're like holy cow. It's an incredible fish and for me and the saltwater it's the same thing. I had a friend. She had just done a pretty hardcore bonefish permit trip. She's a very accomplished fisherwoman and she also had landed about a five and a half foot, six foot barracuda. And of all the amazing pictures that she was showing, the picture of the five and a half foot barracuda was just so badass you just have to look at it and go. That's the shot of the trip, right there.
Speaker 3:They're really cool. You know those teeth and they just and the funny thing they smell exactly like a muskie Muskie kind of stink, and so do Kuda. So that led to, I wonder, you know, thousands of years ago, if there was, they're somehow related. I don't, I'm pretty sure they're not, but it's amazing to have the exact same stench.
Speaker 4:Well, and it's there you go. I mean, it's like the saltwater version of a muskie, for sure. So you mentioned teeth and that's a. You know we were. I want to, I want to dive back into you had talked about. You know, we're just we're kind of continuing our discussion on bucket lists, right? You know what are these places that that would like to go, and everybody has their own bucket list, their dream list. You mentioned a couple of awesome ones. You mentioned Panama, and then you also mentioned tigerfish. Talking about teeth, I can't imagine a cooler, toothy fish to go after than a tigerfish. Let's go back to that for a second. And why did you add that to your bucket list? What was it about tigerfish? Obviously it's. You know that's an African species, but what was it about that fish that got you interested in it, was it? I mean, is it? How do you not say the teeth, right?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's the teeth and the danger and the. I've always been, you know, really obsessed with sharks and kind of fish that can hurt you in a certain way, right? So it's that oh boy, I can't believe you're fishing for this or fishing for that. So I've always had this fascination with kind of the predator fish. You know, sure, I love catching trout and bass and all the things, but I do like fish that have teeth. That's something that's always something I always love. I've caught 10 different species of sharks now, and I'd like to expand that list as I go forward in my angling journey.
Speaker 4:Now you're going. I know you've got a couple trips coming up Western, maybe Western side of the US and there's such they are really dialing in On the East Coast of course I live in the Carolinas and on the East Coast. Of course I live in the Carolinas and on the East Coast you know there's really some exciting now fly fishing. Obviously there's been shark fishing, legendary shark fishing, you know, for decades and decades, all the way back into the early days in the Northeast, off of Montauk and areas up around. You know, long Island, for the big sharks. But the concept of fly fishing for sharks, you know, has really come into its own. And obviously the site, you know the visual game of that.
Speaker 4:In the Keys, places like that, where you're going to be on the flat seeing sharks every day, all day, you know it's so cool and fun. We, you know, in the Central Atlantic, Southern Atlantic fisheries, we tend to get muddier water. It's not as clear as you get down into South Florida and the Keys, and so you know, for that, one of the amazing adventures you can do is you can follow the shrimp boats. You know the big shrimping boats are coming in or they're. You know they're dragging nets in and of course there's just massive wads of bottlenose dolphin and sharks, you know, following these stripper boats, and so the fly fishermen have learned to just tuck in their you know, kind of a safe distance behind those shrimping boats and you're just getting these amazing shots of spinner sharks and black tips and others.
Speaker 4:The West Coast of the US and maybe up into southern Canada. I want to ask you know they are really dialing in on some incredible species of acrobatic sharks like mako and subspecies? Are you thinking maybe on one of these trips you're going to be doing, that'd be a pretty incredible thing to give it a try?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's funny, like we were saying, you know, you book a trip family trip or business trip or whatever and then you kind of start looking deeper into restaurants and then it always comes up when can I go fishing? Right, so, heading into Las Vegas for a couple of days and then hit the West Coast, so it looks like San Diego is going to be, hopefully, the place where we do wet align, but yeah, this Mako shark on the fly, place where we do wet align. But uh, yeah, this, this mako shark on the fly. I was uh flipping through instagram there before bed checking out some reels, and sure enough, I saw a picture of a 700 pound fish you know that ate a fly beside the boat. I just that. Now I'm, I'm in with two feet. I'm gonna make a couple phone calls a little later today and see what we can muster up.
Speaker 3:But uh, I think the sharks down on the West Coast are kind of like the sharks that we have in the northern part of Canada, so they're like the pelagic species. You know the blues, the threshers and the makos, right, but all through the East Coast there's a whole bunch, like you mentioned, the spinner sharks. They're an absolute blast and when they're coming through, there's thousands and thousands of sharks and they'll hit a fly, no problem. They'll hit big topwater musky lures too. So it's you know what's really wild is you just you mentioned the topwater action form.
Speaker 4:It depends where you're fishing for them, you know. If you're lucky enough to get them in clear water, the visual for that is so cool. But imagine, I mean imagine, imagine a six foot spinner shark coming up and just nailing a muskie plug, I mean. Or a big, great big tube sock muskie fly would just be so fantastic.
Speaker 3:Oh, it's so good and it's so visual, right, and they do jump and twist out of the water, just like makos do. That's why, you know, even if we land I don't even know if landing one, I just kind of want to hook one and see the jump and be attached to it for a few minutes, I know bringing it in, and then that's a whole other can of worms and hopefully we can see what happens when you get one even close to the boat.
Speaker 4:When we're down in the flats in the Keys, you know we're looking for, let's say, bonefish or tarpon and of course the you know the classic question right for a day of fishing in the Keys is did you see life on the flats? You know, not so much did you catch a fish or did you land a fish, but you know, was there life on the flats that day? If you're heading out in the morning, you're not seeing sea turtles and rays, you're probably in for a slow day. You know, you can tell there's the whole thing's connected. The whole ecosystem is connected. And you know and if, and you know there's days where you just don't have the life isn't up on the flats. But there's also days where the life is up on the flats and you get. You know the sea turtles are all up there, it's amazing. And the rays are up on the flats by flats. You know we're talking about you know two, three, four feet of water, crystal clear. You're seeing everything like an aquarium just pulling along and for me that kind of stuff's as fun as the fishing. But you get these optics at sharks and of course you know the flat species are going to be more like the bonnet heads instead of the hammerheads, but still cool to see One of my favorites to cast at. And I love, like we talked about a second ago, using these flies right that you can use for multiple species. I always bring some of those and I always tie a couple feet of wire onto it so I can, you know, make a quick cast at a shark or a barracuda. And the lemon sharks, you know they're such a beautiful fish and obviously you know it's a great fun. You know optical cast catch the fish, you know quick in and out. A lot of times you just take a picture where the fish is just kept right in the water, good release. But the lemon sharks, you know for us and the Keys to me are, I just think, one of the prettiest. It's just so fun, you know, so fun to go after these different species. You know, one of the um, one of the trips you mentioned, of course, was tiger fish and as I was looking at my, I had written some thoughts down on bucket lists and we both that's we, you know we cross over on a bunch of these, at least on a couple of them, I think. Um, we definitely crossed over on the tigerfish and you know the cool thing about that we talked a little bit about.
Speaker 4:I've been fortunate to spend a decent amount of time exploring different parts of Africa and, as I'm learning about, you know Africa and how that sporting world continues to evolve. We talked a little bit earlier in the show about. You know how wing shooting and fly fishing you know are two parts of the African you know sporting experience that are just just getting started. You know fledgling levels and I think they're just going to continue to explode.
Speaker 4:But what it's what's interesting is you learn that species like the tigerfish there's all no surprise. There's different fisheries. I've got buddies in Africa who are really hardcore fishermen and there's groups that focus on the Zambezi River system, coming below out of Vic Falls through Kariba and Kohora Basa, through Zimbabwe and Mozambique, that whole Zambezi system loaded with tigerfish. And then of course, you're seeing pictures of these just monsters getting caught in the Congo system. And then, from what I'm learning, I'm just kind of getting started on the tigerfish thing but learning that maybe the best tigerfishing of all might be up in Tanzania.
Speaker 4:So what's so cool, jamie, is you and I talk about these different parts of Canada or the different parts of the US. You can go after the same species. It's no different in Africa. You know, if you and I are going to try to go chase tiger fish someday, man, you know that'll be part of the question, that'll be part of the fun. Planning is all right. Well, that's cool. Now you know what fishery do we want to focus on. What area do we want to go try to explore?
Speaker 3:Right, that's so awesome. You know you've been to Africa, You've been kind of all over the world, right. So it's amazing. You're not only an avid angler but also an avid hunter, so when you're planning your trips, you have lots more to look at. You know, in terms of species, you harvested some wonderful animals, and I'm sure there's more on your hunting bucket list too. Is there any places that you're looking at for your next hunting adventure?
Speaker 4:You know, I think for me the bucket lists are more about the places, sometimes even than the animals or the fish. You know, yeah, there's certain fish I want to catch and for sure there's certain animals that I want to pursue as a hunter, but if I really am being honest about it, the thing that gets me most excited is finding, you know, new places to explore, right, and it's definitely about the place as much as the game and the pursuit. You know, as a, you know, when you think about Africa, you know it's such a vast oh my God it's. You know you can spend a lifetime and not even scratch the surface. But you know, I think more about places I think Jamie than specific animals. You know, when we're hunting over there, we're hunting animals, we're going to eat in camp, right, antelope, buffalo, things like that. But there, you know, places like the Luangwa Valley in Zambia, right, that's just an incredible. You know it's one of the, it's an incredible area of, you know, the Luangwa River just flowing down through this vast valley, arguably the greatest concentration of crocodiles in Africa. Incredible history, all the old capstick books. You know a lot of that took place in the Luangwa. So you know whether it's just history, or the lore, the legend, or for me, a lot of times, it's just places that I know are rich in wildlife and, you know, even if we're hunting, you know certain species of antelope, I'm there looking for birds, I'm looking for other wildlife. So, you know, I think about the Luangwa Valley, I think about, you know, for whatever reason, it's a little harsher condition, but, god, I think it's just fascinating and incredible wildlife.
Speaker 4:You know the northern savannah of Cameroon, you know, and that's more central, not quite Western Africa, maybe more Central Africa Very arid, very challenging, harsh environment. You know, tough, tough trip, tough place to go, but just incredible endemic species that you're just not going to find in other places. Again, focusing as much on just seeing the wildlife and experiencing the place, you know as hunting up in that area. You know it's a famous area to hunt for eland, which is a big antelope and one of the best eating animals. You know in Africa, specifically the Lord Derby, eland.
Speaker 4:Very challenging, long, long days of long. You know hiking and tracking. You know 100 kilometer tracking, you know days before you get, you know before you get a shot, or 100 kilometers, you know, on the ground before you get a shot. Kind of a trip, very hard, hot, challenging, but you know. But again, just incredible place. You know, the Yoko Vengo. How can you not think about the Yoko Vengo in Africa, right, and in Botswana, one of these, you know, just incredible natural places on earth where you've got the rivers flowing out of Angola and literally getting, you know, turning into a giant floodplain in the desert of Botswana. Never gets to the ocean and so, as it floods each year, you get this massive concentration of wildlife. I just can't imagine the birds and the wildlife to see. So you know, when I think as, even as a hunter, when I'm thinking about bucket lists, you know I'm thinking about places probably as much as the animals.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's amazing, and just like when you're out there fishing, sometimes it is the animal or the bird that you see that makes the day right. I was out on July 4th with two guests from America and I was like, wow, I'm so happy you're up in Canada celebrating, you know, july 4th and sure enough, we saw the most beautiful eagle and I thought this is amazing, like it was like meant to be right. So, you know, just enjoying the bird, and you know, I've had moose, I've seen, I saw lynx when I was in gas bay on a drive, so sometimes it's, it's the, the animals I don't hunt, and I talked about that before.
Speaker 4:I better I should start, or maybe I definitely shouldn't, but I love seeing animals and I love seeing birds and and, like you said, it's about the pursuit and about the journey oh for sure, and I don't care if you've seen, you know, if it's your first bald eagle or golden eagle, whatever it is, wherever you are, you know North America, but if, if it's your first or your hundred and first, I I still get excited about every single bald eagle I ever see. I just and of course, golden eagles for us are, you know, more rare. When I get out west sometimes you see the goldens, but every eagle I see I still get excited and to this day I still write everyone down in a bird book. You know, I've got notes from 40 years of birding and I still, you know, like you said, it's such a highlight and you can't help but just stop and appreciate. You know an animal like that.
Speaker 5:What brings people together more than fishing and hunting?
Speaker 6:How about food?
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Speaker 6:And whoever else will pick up the phone Wherever you are.
Speaker 3:Outdoor Journal Radio seeks to answer the questions and tell the stories of all those who enjoy being outside Find us on Spotify, apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 4:The other thing, you know, as we're talking about trips, both of us, both you and I, are always comparing notes on. You know, how are we, how can we be most efficient, right in planning these trips so that we can do them. It's one thing to sit around and daydream, but it's another thing to really do it, you know, get it written down in that calendar and start researching it and then being able to do it. And part of that is, you know, managing time and money. You know how can you be crafty and smart. Those are the two resources time and money that you know most of us have to be most focused on carefully managing. And I think you know one of the neat things about some of these trips, some of these bucket lists, is you do get a chance to plan it, and part of that can be researching. Hey, can I add a fishing element to this hunting trip? Or can I add a hunting element to this fishing trip? And yeah, as somebody who enjoys both, I absolutely look at trips that, if you can, if you're going to go hunt for antelope for two days and you're right next to a great river and you know why not add one day, you know, and dive into that river.
Speaker 4:I think about, you know, trips, like, you know areas like the South Platte system in Colorado which is world-class trout fishing, but you can tie that so easily into a you know a couple of days of antelope or mule deer hunting or, um, uh, up in Calgary, you know, um, you know you've got the um, you know some some incredible river systems out of Calgary, that um, you know that if you're up in Canada, say, you're up doing a whitetail, uh, early season, you know, um, you know, if the seasons work out, obviously with fishing and hunting, you can't be up there in the middle of November and everything's frozen over.
Speaker 4:But if you're, you know, a classic, for example in Canada is if you have folks that are, you know, do some spring bear hunts. You know they're always. I've never done that but I I know that. That's um, uh, that's a classic combination. You know where you're hunting certain times of the day and then you're fishing for pike and walleye times of the day. So yeah, man, absolutely, it's a great way to combine both and a lot of times you can save time and money by just taking advantage of already being there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I think you know you have so many stories. You know many great hunting stories in your book, the Guides, and if you're listening out there and you want to do some reading, ryder's book is one heck of a good read. I've spent, uh, I've spent a couple evenings going through it and it's uh, you have to read it again. I just those stories are amazing and it just goes to show it's basically that book is the reason why we're here talking to each other. It's all about the pursuit and all about the adventure and, uh, we got an adventure coming up up together. It's going to be great Looking depending on the weather, we'll have to see what's going on but maybe some gar, maybe some pike, maybe some muskie There'll be laughs, for sure, and maybe we'll get together and do a live podcast too.
Speaker 4:That'd be pretty cool. And the beauty is it doesn't matter. You know, like you said, that Ottawa fishery it's so deep, you have so many options. You know you can. The day before you'll you'll tell us what you think's best. And heck, it may be smallies, might be pike, it might be gar. That really doesn't make any difference. We'll just have fun being out there like you said, life on the flats.
Speaker 3:We'll see what's out there. And that, uh, I meant to bring back the life on the flats. It's funny up here too, when, uh, things are moving. If I'm driving to the, the river, and I see a deer or a couple deer or a couple turkeys, and then I get to the river and there's one river that's got cows, if the cows are in the water, fish are going to bite right. So whenever I do see animals, you know, moving out in the big world, it usually means better fishing as well. So I step on it as well.
Speaker 4:So I step on it. That's funny. You say that we. You know, one of the great fish runs in the Southeastern US and it's maybe the most historic. It goes back to colonial days. There's great books about the history of it. A lot of the communities that have now turned into cities you know, along some of these rivers in the Southeastern US you go back to their foundational years. Some of those locations were tied around the annual spawning of the shad. You know shad is a very historic fish and a very important fish to the early colonial days and just a super fun, sporting fish. You know, on light tackle, light little. You know on light tackle, light, um, little. You know gosh, three weight, four weight doesn't make any difference If you're finding the fish, you're in them and uh, we went down and uh, each year we have, you know, different spawns as you go up the Southeastern US and they go from Virginia, maybe even further North than that, um, but the Southern most is the St John, maybe even further north than that, but the southernmost is the St Johns River that flows out of Jacksonville, florida, and the St Johns actually starts in central Florida, flows north and then dumps into the Atlantic in Jacksonville.
Speaker 4:So as you go south into Florida you're going actually further and further up the headwaters of the St John's and each year you're looking at water levels. And it's so funny, jamie, the cows. You know Florida is a surprisingly incredible ranching state. You don't think of Florida as a ranching state, but it's a major ranching state and it was great big areas along the St John's that you know. You have cattle and this year was one of the first things we noticed, man, when we went down and started figuring out our drifts and what we're going to do.
Speaker 4:You know it was pretty obvious the water was high, it's over the banks, there's cattle, there's cows in the river and for us that's a negative because it means the water levels are high and the fish, the spawning fish, aren't being concentrated in certain bends in the river, which makes it easier and, sure enough, fishing the shad fishing, you know, this year was tough. Water levels were high and I love the fact that you know two totally different places. You're up there in Canada, I'm down here in Florida and both of us are making fishing decisions based on cows in the water.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's funny. You know, Brad, another guide in the area whenever if I'm on the river and I see the cows down, I'll always take a picture of the cow and send it over. I'm like hey man, if you're not out here, it's time to boogie the cows are. They're in the river and I know it seems weird, but it I don't. I can't even say it out loud because I'll probably curse myself, but usually I've got action when, when there's a, there's cows in the river.
Speaker 4:You and I had remember when we were fishing with maybe two years ago, and we had that amazing small reaction and then we were up chasing some muskie and the cow. Remember that the cow we did have cows in the river, yeah yeah. You and I stopped and grabbed a bologna sandwich or something like that and just kind of threw out the anchor.
Speaker 3:and we're chewing out our sandwiches and, as I recall, I think there were some cows moving down in the water. Yeah, it's funny. I remember that day that was such a great time targeting bass and you had that one fish that kind of followed the shadow of your fly in the air and then it hit as soon as the fly landed, which that was such an amazing moment. We were kind of fishing this sandy beach in the shadow from the fly. The fish just chased the shadow and as soon as it landed it smoked. The fly it was so awesome.
Speaker 4:You know what was crazy about that day and we haven't even talked about this in your fishery but we caught. So that day I caught and I'm not a small mouth fisherman like you know. You, ange and Pete, I mean you guys are hardcore, but I love it and I go smallie fishing every chance I can, but you know, I caught the biggest smallie of my life that day when you and I were together. Yeah, and then the other fish. That was fantastic. I'm wondering if that was the one that actually followed. I think it might've been the one that followed the fly, but remember we hooked into a great big largemouth.
Speaker 4:Yes yes, absolutely In the same day we had a trophy picture of a smallie and a largemouth, both in the same water system. I just remember both flies were casting big musky flies, so both fish looked like they had a giant salad of feathers coming out of their mouth. It was just fantastic.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm not the biggest bass guy. They do provide a lot of fun. But that made me also think you've been down to South America targeting peacock bass, which is another fish that's on my bucket list. I know Miami has got some smaller fish, but what about South America? I know you got some great tales from down there.
Speaker 4:Amazing. It's, you know it's, it's, I would say South America is. You know, people are aware of it, it's, and they, you know Africa is is probably where South America was 20 years ago. It's. South America is one of my favorite adventure. You know, fishing trips you can possibly do and the whole process of getting to the places is an adventure. Obviously, if you're going to fly into Manaus, brazil, and spend a day in Manaus before you head up the Amazon or the Rio Negro, you're going to have an adventure and it really is the two of the most popular fish, probably of the jungle fish. Now there's another whole world of South America fishing as you head down into the you know the Patagonia, interior del Fuego and you get into the incredible trout fishing right of Southern South America. But if you're talking Central South America and the jungle species, absolutely peacock bass and then, of course, the golden dorado. I've been very fortunate to be included in a group that'll be heading up to some lesser fished areas for Golden Dorado later this year as we get from, I think, as we go from August into September, and we'll hopefully, hopefully, you and I'll have some good stories to talk about that. But on the peacock man, it's very similar.
Speaker 4:There's times on the St John's in Florida where I look around and it reminds me, you know, of being in some of those Amazon systems. The water levels drive, you know, they're the most important thing. If the water's high, and this is, you know, let's say, if you're fishing the Rio Negro system, you've got the Amazon River, of course. And then and then of the other massive river that flows through the Amazon, especially through that part of Brazil, is the Rio Negro. Fascinating rivers, very fascinating to see from above, because they each flow different colors. The Amazon tends to be muddy. The Rio Negro is full of tannic water, which makes it dark, almost a black, but clear. It's like a clear tannic water, almost a black but clear. It's like a clear tannic water. And, as you're coming into Manaus from the air, it's one of the most to me it's one of the most amazing views in the sporting world is coming in from the air at the junction of those two rivers, two of the biggest river systems in the world, and you have light, brown water coming in from the Amazon, you have black water coming in from the Rio Negro and both rivers are so powerful the water doesn't mix for miles and miles and miles and so for as far as you can see from the air.
Speaker 4:You look at the joined river, which then of course is the Amazon, and one half the one bank and this river is probably a couple miles wide at that point. One half of the one bank, you know, and this river is probably a couple miles wide at that point. One half of the river is black and the other half is milky brown. It's just an incredible sight. But the water levels drive everything.
Speaker 4:If the water is super high, if it's above the banks, then the water is going to get back in the jungle and those peacock bass, jamie, are going back in the jungle hunting. These are predator fish. You know voracious predator fish and you know whether they're eating other fish or amphibians or small mammals. I mean, these are just aggressive, voracious predators.
Speaker 4:But if the river gets high enough that it overflows the banks and the water gets to navigable depths right back in the jungle, if you get two feet of water back in the jungle, those peacock bass are going back into the trees hunting for food. And of course, as a fly fisherman, you're in deep trouble because those fish are up out of the riverbanks and it's really hard to find fish. So yeah, when you're planning a peacock bass trip, you're looking for low water levels, ideally dry season low water levels August, september kind of thing and it's one of the most amazing fish in a place that the area is as exciting as the fishing. Whether or not you're catching a peacock, you are surely appreciating the macaws and the wildlife and the pink dolphin and chance to see an anaconda all the amazing other wildlife you see on a trip like that yeah, it's.
Speaker 3:It's hard when you do plan a trip and go fishing. Sometimes conditions are not ideal, but you really got to enjoy the travel there. The people, the and you know the fish are obviously just a bonus. But if people that concentrate too much on the catch are often, you know, disappointed. They see, you know, the biggest of the biggest fish. Those are the ones that most captains and people post on the internet. But it's all about the journey.
Speaker 4:Oh, it's all about the journey, and you know we talked about that. You know, before we started recording today, that you know a really healthy perspective and that's really what I think Untamed Pursuits, you know, is about. That's what this podcast is about. Is the journey, the sporting journey, not necessarily about catching and landing the biggest fish or shooting the biggest whitetail, but it's the journey of just enjoying the sporting life and all the other incredible, you know, life enriching experiences you have by just spending time in the outdoors. You know, as you're, so as you're, you know, guiding clients and you're going to be out there with folks who have a goal right. They're after, maybe, a certain species, or maybe they're trying to get a certain size, all of which is exciting and great. You know, I would guess you probably get the whole gamut right. You probably get folks that are just say, hey, you know, let's have a nice day on the river, but you know doesn't mean it's not okay to go out there and try to. You know, beat your personal best on a pike or a muskie.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you always want to be successful and you know, being a fishing guide, you're always competitive and trying to, you know, build your photo library, so to speak, and create memories. I love watching people catch, whether it be their first fish or their biggest fish or just any fish right. It's the help make their day and their trip that much better. I got guests this year from Finland, sweden, south America, so it's going to be amazing to have listened to their. You know the other side of it hey, how did you find planning your trip to Canada? And for them that's their big trip, trying to come where we are right.
Speaker 3:So, and I'm sure those conversations are going to lead to me wanting to go to Europe and some other places too, right, so I think you know, in our podcast here, we've been getting a lot of great comments on our Instagram page at Untamed Pursuits. If you've got any questions, comments, queries or concern, or if you are a guide and you want to come on the show and talk about your neck of the woods, we'd love to discuss that and get you on. We'd love to it's. You know, we talk about the nature side of it, but part of it's the people and you get to meet some wonderful people with some different perspectives, throughout the world too.
Speaker 4:Well, you know you guide in an amazing place. Canada is one of the absolute, you know, last great wildernesses of the world and we've talked about this before you, pete and Ange and I have all talked about it. Just how lucky you know, lucky you guys are to live in that incredible place. But that, what a great destination it is. You know, canada is just, it's absolutely.
Speaker 4:When I think of my own personal bucket list, both as a hunter and as a fisherman, you know, so many of my top places are in Canada. I've talked openly about wanting to go for the big brookies, you know, up in Labrador or Newfoundland. And then, of course, I'm an absolute, you know, wannabe steelheader. I'm not a steelheader, I want to. I'd love to become a learn, you know, learn how to pursue. That's a hard, you know, that's a hard fish. That's a. That's a long day or days with a hope of getting what could be the fish of a lifetime. And that's a journey I haven't even started yet, you know.
Speaker 4:And whether it's the Great Lakes or up in the Northwest, you know, maybe it's up in, you know, bc just classic places to go after steelhead as a hunter. I can't imagine a better place and I know I'm going to. Probably you can't talk about one place without angry people from another place. But I'll say it this way as an American deer hunter, you know, looking at Canada, you know Alberta and Saskatchewan are just you couldn't pick two more legendary, incredible places to go and have a chance to. You know, see some of these just you know, otherworldly whitetail how both of us live in places with vast, diverse. You know areas, as a sports person, that you can spend a lifetime exploring and never scratch the surface of the US and never scratch the surface of Canada. It's just, it's fantastic.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and that's what's going to make this whole podcast work. We have kind of endless locations, endless species and endless people to talk to and talk about, right? So if there's a also if you have a question for us, feel free to hit us up on Instagram. We'd love to maybe do another mailbag show, and if you have a suggestion on a guide, too, we'd love to have them or her as a guest. And here's some new stories.
Speaker 4:Hey, jamie, what we talk about big fish, and you know, obviously, musky, pike, heck, a gar you know that's going to be the same size class. What is a? I'm going to throw out a couple ideas and I'm curious to see what you say, because for you guys in the US, you know, when you think of brookies you're thinking small fish, but of course in Canada you're thinking Labrador and you're thinking giant brookies. We had a show recently where we talked about some of the lakes on the northern side of Superior right where you got a chance to catch some real world-class brook trout. But what is a? You know what's a smaller fish, what's maybe a less sexy in the camera, but just the adventure.
Speaker 4:You know, I think about being in the southeastern US and we have, you know true, southern Appalachian brook trout, native brook trout, that at the end of the day, if you're lucky enough to get one of these fish, by getting one, that means we talk about getting above the waterfalls. You know we have river systems down here that have been stocked and so to get work your way from stocky fish through wild fish all the way up to the native fish, you basically just continue to hike up the river system. In other words, you're hiking up the waterfalls and eventually work your way to native water in the hopes of catching a four-inch you know, a four-inch per trout. Out west, of course, it's the golden trout man. Is that a bucket list for me? Is there a small? Is there maybe a less? You know, a less sexy size fish? That's kind of got your eye as something you'd like to do.
Speaker 3:One thing that I love to do in the spring is get an ultralight rod or like a four weight fly rod and go out spring black crappie fishing, which is not only are they delicious, but when they school up you can have a day where you catch 40, 50 fish. Oh man, I think with any angling adventure, if you have the right tackle to you know, a tackle appropriate for the size of the fish, you can have an absolute blast out there.
Speaker 4:No doubt.
Speaker 3:No doubt you have to return to Montreal and hit up the American shad too.
Speaker 3:Oh for sure, when they run up, the banks are are really really busy, like the Riviera de Prairie and some of the rivers up there, and you know, thousands and thousands of shad come through and people are shoulder to shoulder, which I don't like.
Speaker 3:But uh, it is cool to see. You know, somebody hooks up and then three or four people hook up in a row and then you know the shad are moving through and then, you know, oftentimes a lot of people will get some fish. But uh, you know, besides the shad and I I love trout too, even, like you said, hiking there's nothing better than, uh, sometimes, if I have a day off, I'll drive north in quebec and kind of try to find a little brookie stream that maybe has never been fished before. You know, thank god for google earth where you can kind of try to find a little brookie stream that maybe has never been fished before. You know, thank God for Google Earth where you can kind of look and go. This looks like a nice area and sometimes you don't see anything or don't catch anything, but it's always good to go for a hike and see. You know, even you go catch a little five-inch trout. It's pretty rewarding by doing it yourself and catching a little tiny fish too.
Speaker 4:Well, and they're beautiful, and how fun man is a three-weight or a two-weight fly rod. I mean, my God, as a bird hunter, we talk about four tens, you know, and even a 28 gauge, you know, just being so fun. But as a fly fisherman, how fun are those two and three weights? I mean, it's just, it's awesome.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know there's a fish of of every size to catch and I know we do focus a lot on the big, scary fish.
Speaker 3:But you know I I enjoy catching them all and I think you know when I do a lot of trips multi-species, family trips, like you said before some people you know, sure, I want a big muskie, but oftentimes I get people I had a great group last week that never fished in their life and they said, hey, we just want to troll around, we want to catch whatever you know. And we're catching little small mouth and we got into a nice big pike and then caught some little walleyes too and just seeing these little kids face, you know they've never had anybody take them fishing before. You know creating that new little monster that's going to be invading tackle stores and spending all their heart and money. It's such a rewarding feeling seeing kids that are into the sport and for them it doesn't matter whether it be, you know, a channel catfish or a perch or a rock bass. It's more about, you know, the feeling of getting that rod to bend. Oh my gosh, it's priceless.
Speaker 4:And you're changing lives. You know that. You know the feeling of getting that rod to bend oh my gosh, it's priceless. And you're changing lives. You know that. You know you take your kid fishing and then they might bring a buddy. Well, maybe that friend of theirs doesn't have the opportunity, you know, to get out and go fishing or hunting or even just spend time outdoors, and so they get an opportunity. It's not just time with your own child, but their friend gets an opportunity and you've changed their life. It's just, it's priceless stuff.
Speaker 4:You know we talk about bucket lists and you know, and yes, there are these incredible exotic places to go that are fun to talk about, fun to dream about and fun to research and really fun to go if you can figure out how to, you know, to make it pull it all together. But you know, when I think about the trips I've got coming up that I'm really looking forward to, you know we're going to be fishing. I've got some buddies. You know we've got a. You know a two-day maybe I think it's a two-day camping trip on the James River in Virginia. Southwestern Virginia has got world-class, really world-class smallie action and of course I'm talking to a Canadian fishing guide who literally really lives in real world-class smallie water. But I tell you some of these rivers in the southeast will surprise you. We'll have some guests on. I'm excited about some guests we have coming up that live in the southeastern US. Guide, in the southeastern US, in the mountains, whether it's the mountains of southwest Virginia, western North Carolina, north Georgia, you know, the southern Appalachian Mountains allow the habitat of many northern species to get surprisingly deep into the southeastern US, and that's whether it's brookies or woodcock. Obviously they're more of a migratory bird but a better example, you know, would be brookies maybe, or rough grouse, you know, even you know legitimate grouse hunting. And southwestern Virginia has got some just really surprisingly amazing, destination-worthy, world-class smallie action Places like the New River and the James River.
Speaker 4:Anyways, we've got a camping trip coming up on the James for smallies, you know, and I don't know, I think it's early August, we'll be there in a couple weeks. But you know, my son and I are both going and he's never smallmouth fished before he's grown up hunting and fishing. We've, you know, my son and I are both going and he's never smallmouth fished before he's grown up hunting and fishing. We've, you know, done a ton of it. But just, for whatever reason, this will be his first trip going after smallmouth and I'm so excited to see him do that and just experience it for the first time, and then, of course, and then he'll take his buddies. It's just, it's a great thing.
Speaker 3:Oh, man, and it's funny when you're talking it's like sitting in a campfire, where bringing up one area makes you think of something and think of something. I actually reached out to a guide that I guided up here, who is a Muskie and Smallmouth guide down in the James, so we'll talk when we get off, and he would be a fantastic guest too. So we got some amazing guests coming in kind of from different continents. You know you're going to hear some different accents for sure, and hear some wonderful tales. It's uh always great chatting with you, ryder, and uh I hope uh, ryder and I provided everybody out there with an amazing uh gets you excited about fishing and hunting, and hope we spark some ideas for your next adventure.
Speaker 4:Yeah, we just wrapped up our cup of coffee. It was a fun way to have a cup of coffee in the morning, for sure that's it Well.
Speaker 3:on behalf of Ryder and myself, thank you so much to the Outdoor Journal Radio Podcast Network for doing all the wonderful things they do and for hosting Untamed Pursuits. It's been a blast.
Speaker 7:As the world gets louder and louder, the lessons of our natural world become harder and harder to hear, but they are still available to those who know where to listen. And louder, the lessons of our natural world become harder and harder to hear, but they are still available to those who know where to listen. I'm Jerry Ouellette and I was honoured to serve as Ontario's Minister of Natural Resources. However, my journey into the woods didn't come from politics. Rather, it came from my time in the bush and a mushroom. In 2015, I was introduced to the birch-hungry fungus known as chaga, a tree conch with centuries of medicinal use by Indigenous peoples all over the globe.
Speaker 7:After nearly a decade of harvest use, testimonials and research, my skepticism has faded to obsession and I now spend my life dedicated to improving the lives of others through natural means. But that's not what the show is about. My pursuit of the strange mushroom and my passion for the outdoors has brought me to the places and around the people that are shaped by our natural world. On Outdoor Journal Radio's Under the Canopy podcast, I'm going to take you along with me to see the places and meet the people that will help you find your outdoor passion and help you live a life close to nature and under the canopy, find Under the Canopy now on Spotify, apple Podcasts or wherever else you get your podcasts on.
Speaker 6:Spotify, apple Podcasts or wherever else you get your podcasts. How did a small-town sheet metal mechanic come to build one of Canada's most iconic fishing lodges? I'm your host, steve Nitzwicky, and you'll find out about that and a whole lot more on the Outdoor Journal Radio Network's newest podcast, diaries of a Lodge Owner. But this podcast will be more than that. Every week on Diaries of a Lodge Owner, I'm going to introduce you to a ton of great people, share their stories of our trials, tribulations and inspirations, learn and have plenty of laughs along the way. Meanwhile, we're sitting there bobbing along trying to figure out how to catch a bass and we both decided one day we were going to be on television doing a fishing show.
Speaker 6:My hands get sore a little bit when I'm reeling in all those bass in the summertime, but that's might be for more fishing than it was punching you so confidently. You said hey, pat, have you ever eaten a drum? Find Diaries of a Lodge Owner now on Spotify, apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.