Untamed Pursuits
Embark on a wild adventure like never before with the groundbreaking podcast, "Untamed Pursuits."
Join the intrepid duo of renowned author and outdoor enthusiast, Ridr Knowlton, alongside the seasoned professional fishing guide, Jamie Pistilli, as they traverse the globe in pursuit of the world's most exciting fishing and hunting destinations, and the fascinating creatures that live there. From the lush rainforests of the Amazon to the icy depths of the Arctic Circle, each episode promises heart-pounding encounters, captivating tales, and invaluable insights into the natural world.
With Ridr's profound storytelling and Jamie's unparalleled expertise, prepare to be transported to the front lines of adventure, where every roar, splash, and rustle ignites the senses and leaves listeners on the edge of their seats. "Untamed Pursuits" isn't just a podcast—it's an adrenaline-fueled odyssey that will redefine your perception of nature and leave you craving more. Buckle up for the ride of a lifetime!
Untamed Pursuits
Episode 8: Wes Hodges VA Pt. 1
What if your favorite breakfast spot could spark an enlightening conversation about the environment? Jamie and Ryder did just that after a delightful morning at the Antrim truck stop, relishing donuts and blueberry scones. This led us into an earnest discussion on the rising temperatures' impact on muskie fishing and Jamie's conscious decision to pause his angling pursuits to safeguard fish health. We unpacked the importance of conservation and the need for responsible fishing practices to protect our aquatic ecosystems.
From there, we transitioned to an extraordinary personal journey that began in rural northeast Texas and spanned military service with the 82nd Airborne Division, leading to an unexpected passion for fly fishing in Ecuador. Our guest shared how this new love culminated in establishing a guiding business in Virginia, powered by resilience and family support, especially from a devoted mother back in Texas. The story underscores the challenges and rewards of pursuing one's passion against the odds, proving that with encouragement, dreams can indeed become reality.
Finally, we delved into the diverse fishing opportunities along Virginia's Jackson, New, and James Rivers. Wesley Hodges joined us to discuss the thrills of wild game fishing and the technical challenges of catching wild brown trout and smallmouth bass. We explored prime times and techniques for bass fishing and shared vivid stories of topwater action that will leave you eager to cast your next line.
What brings people together more than fishing and hunting?
Speaker 2:How about food?
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Speaker 3:Each week we're bringing you inside the boat tree stand or duck blind and giving you real advice that you can use to make the most out of your fish and game.
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Speaker 3:The hey, welcome to this week's episode of Untamed Pursuits. I'm Jamie Basile here with Ryder Knowlton. We got a special guest coming up. We got a guide kind of in between us, well, maybe a little bit closer to Ryder coming up, but yeah, pretty pumped. We got together, Ryder and I, last week, just for a little breakfast action and it's good to catch up here on the interweb again. Ryder, what's going on down in your neck of the woods?
Speaker 5:Jamie, I tell you what I'm thinking about. Are those donuts and scones we ate when we had our little business meeting last weekend outside of Arnprior? What's the name of that truck?
Speaker 3:stop. Oh good old Antrim, truck stop. Yeah, they put many calories in my body.
Speaker 5:That was the best. That was some of the best donuts and, without any doubt, the best blueberry scone I've ever had in my life.
Speaker 3:Yeah, nose, breakfast sandwiches fuel many a fishing day for me. I got to say, oh, I love it.
Speaker 5:How are you doing, man? It's good to catch up, good to be back home.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's always good. It's been a busy week here, but things are slowing down a little bit with the heat.
Speaker 5:You know, I saw you had posted something the other day and I've been hearing and I'll be curious to see as we get into discussion with our guest today, I'll be curious to see his thoughts. But it sounds like the temps, it sounds like it's another super hot summer. I was really happy that, you know, even though we're having fires in Colorado. I know you guys are having some fires up in Canada but you know you and I had no issue with smoke last weekend but it sounds like the temps, and maybe the water temps, are starting to push the limits on the muskie a little bit. You know, I know each year you guys kind of watch that closely. Yeah, you know what, each year you guys kind of watch that closely.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know what? I don't think there's any scientific number to where it's not safe to fish for you know catch and release muskies. But I was out last week and the water temperature hit 83.3 in 10 feet of water. I know that's the surface temperature, but that just made things feel kind of uncomfortable for me. So, yeah, I'm going to shut her down for probably two weeks here just to let things cool down a bit. Our air temperatures that's another thing people think about. Even though the water temperatures are in the high 70s, the air temperatures are 90, 100.
Speaker 3:It's really, really stressing on the fish and you know what we fish to be able to create those magical memories, and the last thing you want is to catch a beautiful fish and have it not make it through the day. That's not why we fish. We fish for catch and release and, you know, in order to protect the resource as well. So I made the executive decision. I hope some other. You know guides, follow suit, but you can only do what you got to do. You know guides, follow suit, but uh, I gotta you can only do what you gotta do and uh, I think, uh, spreading the word and trying to make people aware of the dangers. Muskies are not the as much as they look like the big mean fish they're. They're pretty fragile and we have such an amazing resource up here in Ottawa that, uh, I think it's time to just let them have a little bit of break with this. This hot, I can work on my tan and uh get some other stuff done and there's other species to catch too, you know.
Speaker 5:Um, well, you just hit. I was going to ask you. You know musky, you know you see a picture of a musky and you picture this. You know voracious predator and this big, tough fish. But they are a delicate fish and you know talk about, you know you've got a number of species up there you fish for. Are there some species that are more resilient with the water temps that you, you know you just keep hitting them all summer. Or is muskie is specifically a delicate fish with water temps like? How do they fall into the whole category?
Speaker 3:yeah, so muskies are are probably the ones that are the most impacted. Unfortunately, I saw a fish from dow's lake which is, you know, the world's biggest skating rink we have here in ottawa of a 48 inch fish that had passed this week. A friend of mine found it floating and it was. It was recently caught. There was a couple of holes in his face and unfortunately that fish didn't make it. So not too sure what happened, but if I think, if you are out there listening and if you are still targeting muskies, you know, please consider just, even if you are fishing for them, a water release.
Speaker 3:You don't have to take a photo of every fish. You don't have to measure every fish. It drives me crazy when people have to bump board every fish like it's 36 and a half or 36 like here. That extra half inch is not going to really change your day too much and you don't even have to measure every fish. You can kind of look at it and eyeball it. I can understand if it's a massive fish, but you can even, you know, measure it inside the water and go from there. You know, try to think about the resource and think about the long terms, not just about your satisfaction in the moment.
Speaker 5:Well, it's so funny. You know we're talking about water temps and you and I, you know, from time to time and I've talked to Pete and Ange about this too you know where I am and call it. You know, central to western North Carolina, if you will. You know we have the Appalachian Mountains obviously come, you know, down the east side of the US and they filter straight through southwestern Virginia, down through western North Carolina, beautiful mountains, and then really get as far as kind of those far northwest foothills of South Carolina and of course they're still quite meaningful mountains in North Georgia. You don't think about that when you think about the southeastern US, but those little corners are very mountainous parts of the southeast and what it does is it creates dynamics with temperatures that allow a lot of species that you normally associate with what you guys are doing up north. You know where we have some of those species in the southeast and you know, obviously you think about you know, you know things like, you know, grouse hunting, which we're going to talk a bit about today, and you know, and then some really surprisingly great brook trout, native brook trout fishing. But one of the fish that is so interesting that we have in this far south is the muskie and the kind of the classic southern edge, I guess, of their, really their native, the muskie and the kind of the classic Southern edge. I guess of their, really their native, if you will, their, their, their, their, their real habitat. Right, their native habitat is that French Broad River system that eventually goes through the Asheville North Carolina area and it's amazing to think that, you know, you're up there in Canada talking about temps and we're down here in North Carolina in the South and obviously also have surprisingly really robust quality muskie fishing and I'm sure the guys are talking about the same thing down here. It's a perfect transition.
Speaker 5:To talk a little bit about our guests today, man, we've got a great one. We've been so lucky, jamie, with some of these incredibly knowledgeable and a variety of guests from all over the place, all over the world. Yeah, absolutely yeah, we're very blessed and we've got a fantastic guest today. Our guest is one of those unusual people that is equally respected in the fly fishing world as a guide and an outfitter and a professional, as he is in the hunting world and in this case, and a professional as he is in the hunting world and in this case, specifically bird hunting and you know it's not typically you find somebody who is so respected in both of those areas and on top of it also runs an outfitting business that has just an unbelievable list of loyal clients.
Speaker 5:I want to ask him. I want to say it might even be an Orvis endorsed outfitting business, but in any case just a fascinating guy, a great friend of mine. I'll be fishing with him in about a week. We've got a whole group of people going up to his area to fish for smallies and so, without further ado, our guest today is my good friend and very respected fishing and hunting guide, wes Hodges from Southwest Virginia. Wes, good morning.
Speaker 6:Hey guys, Thank you all for having me. Listening to you all talk about the heat reminds me how hot it is right where I'm at right now it's 95 at 1030 in the morning. Yeah, it's hot and humid. So, yeah, thank you guys for having me on. I appreciate it Go ahead, jamie.
Speaker 3:Yeah, thanks so much for coming on, and I'm so curious to hear about all your local waters. You got a beautiful spot on the James River and we share a lot of passions for some of the same kind of fish.
Speaker 6:Absolutely yes, so go ahead, ryder.
Speaker 5:No, no, I was going to say I want to. You know we're going to dive into the fish and Absolutely yes, sir. I mean, tell us about your path to becoming a guide and then an outfitter. And then, of course, I know you also served in the military and, man, I do want to dive into the fishing. But, gosh, give us a background on your path that took you to where you are, because it's such an interesting story. Yeah.
Speaker 6:And you know I'm kind of intrigued by the fact that people find it interesting. You know, when you're the one that walked it it just feels like it's just a long, long damn path. But as I talk to people about my story and how I got to where I'm at, it is kind of interesting In a kind of summarized version. I was born and raised in northeast Texas on my family's property. I have four brothers and I legitimately had what I feel is the best childhood in the world. Honestly. I had thousands of acres to roam and hunt and fish and I was really the only one of my brothers that did it to the level that I did it at. I was consumed by it.
Speaker 6:At an early age I spent almost every waking moment either hunting and or fishing on the lakes and rivers and creeks and woods of my family's property. It was the mecca for that. From wild pigs to squirrels, wood ducks, bass, pickerel, you name it. And if you're in the outdoors you could pursue it on that property. And you name it. And if you're in the outdoors you could pursue it on that property. And it was a good childhood because I was raised rural and kind of old school where when the sun comes up, you can either work for your dad or get the hell out and stay away from him and go play. And you know, sometimes work was forced on us but most of the time we could sneak out early and we just run the woods by ourselves for 12-15 hours hunting water moccasins, chasing raccoons. I mean, we were. I would go as far as to say I legitimately lived a lord of the flies story through high school. It it was wild, it was very, very wild. You don't see that anymore. It's a shame, but you just don't see it anymore. Some of that's because the world has kind of changed a lot. But my senior year in high school my life took a major turn. I went, I was in a history class when 9-11 happened and I remember watching the Twin Towers fall and I knew instantly that well, I shouldn't say instantly I knew shortly after that that I was destined to go into the military and I did.
Speaker 6:I left after I graduated and went to the 82nd Airborne Division, did quite a few deployments with the 82nd Airborne Division, got involved in snipers and reconnaissance and did that for just over seven years. When I got out of there I moved to Richmond, virginia, moved in with a girl I was dating. About as fast as I moved in with her I moved the hell out and from there I went to school at Virginia Tech. While I was at Virginia Tech, I still had this passion for serving the country. This desire and that kind of got me on this pathway into one of the three-letter agencies in the government. I didn't end up going that way, but it drug me down about a year and a half worth of interviews and paperwork and all kinds of stuff and ultimately made my decision that I did not want to do that path while living in Ecuador for I don't know, five or six months, something like that. And while I was in Ecuador I fell in love with hand-rolled cigarettes, tequila and surfing and said to hell with working for the government.
Speaker 6:I came back home and started a fly fishing business out of nowhere I mean out of absolute nowhere. Um, everyone thought I was crazy. They probably still do. Um, and that's really how the fly fishing guiding story began. Is is is being a 27 year old single guy living in a cabin in Blacksburg, virginia, who got back into fishing and hunting after the military and said I'm never leaving this sport again and I started a business and I've been running it ever since 2013. Um, and it's been great. It's been really good.
Speaker 6:And about five years ago, I decided to start a lodge, not because I'm a great business guy I don't think I'm a great business guy. I started a lodge simply for the fact that I got sick and tired of telling people what hotel to stay in. And I got this lodge, this big house, and converted it to what it is today, some of which you know. The conversion happened, you know, out of necessity for my daughter. You know I had to be home with her a lot, so the only way that I could keep doing this business was by having additional income through lodging, and that really is what jumpstarted the lodge piece of it. So I took it serious and it just flourished after that.
Speaker 5:Hey, wes, I know you know and I want to, we're going to dive into your outfitting and lodging business because that's as candidly, that's as impressive as the fishing and hunting side of your business. Was it your passion for fly fishing that took you down this path? I mean, when you made that decision, I want to keep doing this and I'm going to make a living doing this. You know, as you said, it wasn't until later that you started. I want to almost say the lifestyle slash, hospitality slash. You know outfitting business, but was it your passion as a fly fisherman that said this is the path that I'm going to take?
Speaker 6:That's a good question and I think ultimately the answer to that question is yes. But up front it was just because this is fun and I'm making some money and I don't want to work for anybody. I think that's really what started it. But then I don't think I ever saw it as a legitimate business, mainly because it's not like it's. You know, starting an IT company where society's like good call, that's a great decision. Go start an IT company, you know. You go to your family and you say, hey, I'm starting a fly fishing business. I'm like what the hell is that?
Speaker 5:Well, you know what I love about your stories. You've told me in the past how your mom is. You know, obviously a very important part of your path, and and and she's obviously a you know, a tough lady who says it like it is, and she's there's been a couple of times where she's, you know, said hey, man, if you're going to do it, do it. You know, and I know, those are important moments for you.
Speaker 6:Absolutely. Yeah, she is, you know, mentally, physically she's not in Virginia, she's still in Texas, but she is a godsend to my brothers and I. She really is. And the one thing, her number one rule was when you start something, you don't quit it, period. I mean, she'd make us ride out the entire baseball season, just drive us to the games and make us sit there on the bench, even if we weren't playing. She didn't care, like no, you chose a commitment, you do it.
Speaker 6:And when I started the business, you know she was like good, that's fun, you know, have a good time doing it, you know, whatever. And then I kept growing it and growing it and I was like I don't know, mom, I'm not making a whole lot of money and she goes well, yeah, you better keep going. You got to get all in there. First you got to put everything on the table before you say you're done, and so I'd reinvest everything back in the business and it'd grow more. And then I started the lodge.
Speaker 6:And then you know my daughter, who's perfectly healthy, but I had full custody of her for a short while and it was like, you know, I don't know, mom, if I can make enough money doing this and she said well, now's the time you thought you were all in. Now it's all in and you have someone depending on you, so now let's see if it works. Yep, so I dive all in again, put every bit of money I had back in the business and it just took off again. Um, so it's it is, it is, it's important. Um, there's some life lessons there too. It's just, you know, a lot of times people want to pack it up and leave when it's hard, uh, but that's probably the moment you really have to stick it out.
Speaker 5:Um, well, and you had, as you said, you know you had a lot of things driving you there. You know you had your own family, you had your parents, you had your own passion for the business. I mean, and candidly, I know you well enough to say this you're just an incredibly driven person yourself, and so you know you had all that energy pushing you to make this thing work.
Speaker 6:That's correct. Yeah, I really did. Sorry, guys, I had to start my truck back up. I'm sitting in a Kroger parking lot about to buy groceries for the lodge. Yeah, I am a driven person. I'm ambitious, sometimes to my detriment, you know.
Speaker 6:I come up with, you know, crazy off the wall ideas that I spitball out to my guides and my marketing team, other people in behind the scenes in the business. There's no way I could do what I do. There's absolutely no way. They are the absolute most critical component to the business, and that goes for any business owner in this world. If you are the CEO and you think you can run it by yourself, you're out of your mind. The key component are really good employees. That's the key component to this whole operation.
Speaker 6:My ideas can be crazy and my rule of thumb is if I can't stop thinking about it for three weeks, then we're going to do it. That's how I roll and it's been great. Honestly, guys, it really has been. We're about to make a big adjustment. You know, ryder, I'll see you next week and you'll see some of the plans and what's going to happen next. And our trips are going to continue to get, you know, somewhat off the wall and they're not off the wall. It's just unheard of in this area of Virginia, and what I mean by that is there's no reason why outfitters out west can do what they do and why we can't do that in Virginia. What I mean by that is backcountry grouse hunting or pack-in turkey hunting. There's no reason why we can't do that with the amount of public land we have in Virginia, and I'm really leaning into that right now.
Speaker 5:Well, tell me, let's start talking fishing. Let's talk about you. Know we started the show and you know talking about water temps, air temps. You know musky. You know, tell us about you. Know you again, you, just you're one of these unusual outfitters that is equally well regarded in the fly fishing world as you are in the hunting world. I know your passion is chasing those crazy. You know Southern rough grouse. But let's, let's talk about you know fishing this summer. You know what's what. How have the muskie been? You know what? What are you guys seeing on the river right now? I know you're fishing the James, maybe the new, obviously prime smallie season. You know what do you? How's? How's the fishing been this summer? Has?
Speaker 6:the fishing been this summer. The summer has been a little bit weird, to be honest with you. We had super high water temperatures as early as June. Our water levels got down to we're talking the James River specifically right now. The water levels got down to the type of levels we see in September, late August. That happened in June, right after the spawn. So the water temperatures got really high and as soon as the water temperatures hit above 80 degrees we noticed a huge slowdown in the fishing. The fish are still there, but it's just they really are honing into these overcast days in which it's a little bit cooler. They're really feeding like crazy after rains Because, like I said, we've had sustained temperatures in the mid-90s for about two months now.
Speaker 6:That's crazy for Virginia. We typically only see that maybe twice a year. Normally we're in mid, mid eighties as the highs usually. Um, I remember last year I was wearing a big puffy Patagonia jacket in the middle of June because it was still cool in the in the in the mornings. So it's just there's.
Speaker 6:There is a environmental change you know occurring this season in particular. Uh, not to get into the any kind of political and environmental stuff, but there's the effect of the fishing on the James. Now the New River has been crazy good. It is shit hot right now and Rod, you guys will see when you come down we're going to do a day on the New River for sure. The New River is special because it's hydroelectric, so you have huge surges of water that keep the water temperatures down. That's not their focal point, but it just naturally occurs because of the dam it gets really good water flows, consistent water flows, and the smallmouth are happy on the New River. As far as the muskie fishing is concerned, we start doing that some in late September but we really won't start doing it until those water temperatures get down in the low 70s.
Speaker 6:You know, listen, y'all talk about the sensitivity of muskie. It's very, very true. You catch a muskie today and the water temperature is in the 80 and you fight it on a fly rod. That fish will die because of the lactic acid buildup that you get and it can't recover fast enough. So you know, that's just commonly what we see.
Speaker 6:So if we do hook a muskie accidentally meaning that we're not actually pursuing that fish, we're catching smallmouth we'll cut the line off in the water and just let them both go. Um, we won't even fight the fish all the way to the boat. Um, so we do. We're cautious about that and we're not a super you know? Um, we don't. We don't.
Speaker 6:We're not a prolific muskie guiding team. Um, we're mainly this. We'd mainly do small mouth, and we do a lot of trout fishing, and we do muskie fishing more out of a passion than a guiding thing. Uh, but when, when certain clients come up for muskie, we do take them out. Um, but yeah, I mean, the fishing's been, it's been good. Um, the new river has been the hot topic this year. It's been on fire. Everyone's loving fishing that the James is really good, but you've got this long window midday, and which is pretty slow. I do think, though, the New River is sorry. The James River is a better fly fishing river because it's a slower, more gradual gradient than the New River, which makes it super fun to sight cast for these big smallmouth in super shallow water, which is what the James River is known for.
Speaker 3:That's awesome. So what size of smallmouth bass are you guys getting down there in Virginia?
Speaker 6:Oh man, leave it to a guy from Canada to ask me that question, yeah.
Speaker 5:I knew as a matter of seconds, right off the bat with his first question how big are the smallies?
Speaker 1:in Virginia. Oh yeah, you can tell the guys from Ottawa I love it, it was at our glamping.
Speaker 3:We'll go down to glamping later. We'll go fish first.
Speaker 6:So in Virginia you know where we're at. You know a true trophy is a 20-inch smallmouth. A true trophy. In Virginia it's known as a citation smallmouth. You can send in the measurements. The state of Virginia will send you back a plaque that says congratulations on your Citation bass.
Speaker 6:We consistently I won't say consistently, but we have shots at those size fish every day, at least one or two shots at them. On average we're catching 14 to 16 inches on the James On the New River you will typically have multiple shots at fish 20 inches or bigger. Amazing, yeah, typically speaking, the biggest smallmouth that any one of my guides and I have ever put in the boat ever was 24 and a half inches and that's about a six and a half pound smallmouth, about six and a half, and that was on the new river. The biggest I've ever caught on the James was about 22. Um, there is um a guy by the name of Blaine chocolate. I think that he caught a smallmouth.
Speaker 6:That went. I think it was two years ago. He was guiding a trip and the guy caught. I think it was either 25 1⁄2 or 26 1⁄2 inches on the James. So they're in there, they're big fish and they don't really look like the fish you see in New England. Up north, up into Canada, those fish truly look like big fat footballs. Our fish are typically slender and longer than the ones you find up north, because correct me if I'm wrong, though catch a 20-inch bass up in your area is a big deal as well, correct?
Speaker 3:Oh, absolutely. You get 20-inch bass. You're getting high fives all around on the dock for sure when you get back.
Speaker 6:That's right, and you do trout fishing as well, we do yep, we do a lot of trout fishing. We have a really special trout fishery right about 20 minutes from the lodge that's known as the Jackson River. Interesting story about the Jackson River is when they built the flood dam at Lake Mumaw. They built that back in roughly 85. It was to stop the flash flooding that was blowing out a lot of these Appalachian towns. So they built this dam to hold back the Jackson River from flooding. They did that and it actually created a really good trout fishery. So they started stocking trout in there.
Speaker 6:The state did to build up this trout fishery, make it a world-class trout fishery, which it was. However, there were some landowner issues that came up on. It's formally known as the King's Grant lawsuit, which is still in effect today. That lawsuit prohibited anglers from passing through and fishing the entire river. Okay, so when they did that, the state backed out Trout Unlimited backed out and said look, we're not putting taxpayer dollars into a river system that's not truly open to the public, and I actually agree with them on that. I agree.
Speaker 6:Well, what happened was they pulled out and all these breeding rainbows and brown trout, they were left to the wolves. Well, they survived and these fish are truly wild trout. It's the only wild trout fishery in Virginia that you can float down the only one. Now there are other wild trout fisheries you know around, like native brook trout fisheries, stuff like that, but you can't float them. Now why this river is so special to me is because there is zero human manipulation or management that goes into this river system. They don't touch them. These fish are as wild as you will find anywhere and I love that about this fishery.
Speaker 5:And Wes, when you're just to be clear, you're talking about the. Is it the Jackson River? Now you're talking about, that's correct, the Jackson River? Yep, you know it's. People associate, you know so much of your fishing, with the New and the James, which are, you know, hell, the New River. You know that's a world famous, small, at least very famous around the US Smalley River, but you don't hear the Jacksons talked about much and when I'm talking with you, that's the river you talk about all the time. You know it's obviously, and of course the history and the story is interesting, but obviously you know you think it's a hell of a fishery and and I know that's when you, you, you lead a lot of discussions to that river.
Speaker 6:I do, yeah, and I and I love it. I love the technical aspect of it, um, and I love pursuing, as you know, a rider wild game. I don't like going after stock stuff. I personally me, we don't mind guiding on on stock stuff, but I personally prefer to go after wild fish. Um, kind of that fair chase mentality that I have. Um, and it's a hard fishery, it's very difficult and I've caught trout all over this world, um, but it's my favorite trout fishery. Um, I would, I'm more happy catching one 20 inchinch wild brown out of the Jackson River than I ever would be about catching 50 20-inch browns out of the South Holston or the Watauga. That's me personally, because it's that technical. It will test you time and time again as a fly angler.
Speaker 3:That is amazing. So you do most of your fishing out of drift boats right.
Speaker 6:So like you drift right down and then hit all the pools, and that's correct, yes, sir, and sometimes we just guide clean through. I mean, we'll guide, we'll float down 10, 12 miles and never stop. And the other beautiful thing about our area is, you know, it's hard to imagine this in the continental US, but most of our river systems you can float down and you won't see a single home on the river. It's a wilderness area where we're at and there's very few guides. I mean there's only maybe five operating guide services within two hours of me, within two hours of me, and I'm the largest operation with eight guides total and everyone else is just a single guide operating. So we rarely ever see anyone on the water. Rarely. I mean to the point that if you do, it's because you're kind of shocked, it's like oh hell, who is that? But we'll do that for days and days and never see anyone else in the water. It's really unique. It's really unique.
Speaker 3:So typically your guests that come will they go for trout maybe for a couple of days and then for smallmouth or muskie another day or two.
Speaker 6:That's correct. Yeah, most of the packages we sell are three night two days or three night, three days, so they try to get the Jackson, the James and the new all in one trip, typically speaking, yeah.
Speaker 3:That's amazing. And then, if water temperatures are weather, there's always a place to duck out and fish, eh.
Speaker 6:That's correct. Yeah, and the Jackson. We kind of shut that down about mid-June until about October, usually once our first frost hits of the year. That's when we go back to the trout fishing, just because the water's low there right now and we don't want to put any pressure on those wild brown trout.
Speaker 5:Oh, that's awesome. You know, jamie, you and I talk all the time about I'm always bragging on your fishery up in the Ottawa River and it's such a diverse fishery and I love the fact that you know you can wake up in the morning and you and I have done this before where we're like all right, what are we fishing for today? And you know you can kind of say, well, you know, based on conditions today, this is what we're going to do and, wes, you've got a lot of that too. I mean, you're well, just not just species or where on a river you're going to go, but both of you guys are lucky in that your areas, you know that you focus on, have multiple, literally multiple river systems and you know, is that something you know? Like I know we'll be fishing in a week or so, wes, is that something you're thinking about a week ahead of time? You know, a couple of days ahead of time, because you can play play a couple different hands based on what water's doing.
Speaker 6:That's correct. Yeah, when we look at like this time of year, we're looking at water levels consistently. That's the number one focus and we're looking at them. I mean the guides, and I talk almost every single day. I've got five guides out right now that they'll all report back to me at the end of the evening tell me how things went, that they'll all report back to me at the end of the evening tell me how things went and we can almost plan it. You know these consistent data points. We have that build up over the season so we kind of know what's the hot river system and what's going on.
Speaker 6:Yeah, a week out is a pretty good call looking at the rain forecast, looking at the projected flows from the dams, to let us know what we're going to be doing. And you know, we have seven river systems within an hour drive of us. That's crazy. It's crazy, that's amazing. Yeah, One side of the mountain can get a lot of rain and blow out two of our rivers. So we go the other side of the mountain and we fish those over there instead. So it's really unique.
Speaker 6:But our you know, truth be told our main focus and our passion in fishing my guides and I, we love smallmouth bass. That is, that is really what we. We love it. Um, yeah, we're physically exhausted right now after going. You know, I don't even know how many, I don't even know what day of the week it is, to be honest with you. Um, but we're physically exhausted from going so hard since April on the smallmouth, um, and we've still got all of August, all of September and almost all of October still for smallmouth fishing, so another three solid months of of bookings, um, but we love doing it. And the guys are tired, uh, but they don't care, they love catching big, small mouth on top water.
Speaker 5:Hey, when, jamie? When is your? I'm really curious. I want to ask both of you guys this um, jamie, what, when are your prime times? If you're one, if you're focusing as a, as a smallie fisherman, okay, uh up in your systems in in Southern Ontario, what, what are the? You know, what are the time, what are the month or two that you go to try to get a shot at a big fish, and what's? Maybe is there prime time for topwater action? What are your two windows of the year that you focus on? And then I want to, Wes, I want to get the same thoughts from you to kind of compare those two different areas.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's a good question. I'd say early season, so I don't know about, I think, west. Do you have a year-round season for smallmouth?
Speaker 6:um, we do, we got about 10 months, about 10 months yeah, you're lucky, ours is a little limited.
Speaker 3:So we start the third week in the june and that's always a great time, you know, the fish haven't seen flies or lures for a while. And then, once the water temperatures start to drop in the fall, I love. You know, mid-september, early October, that's a great time to be on the water. A lot of the pleasure boaters are off. We do see people every day, but you know there's a lot less traffic and wakeboarders and jet skiers and stuff like that in the fall. So I think the fall is great. The air is something magical, getting up and having that cold, crisp air in the morning.
Speaker 6:Yeah, and for us, you know we the best shot at consistently catching big fish is going to be probably that pre-spawn April into early May. You know, when we go on the water then that's when we're expecting to get five or six fish over 20 inches in a day. That's what we're expecting Consistently catching 17s, 18-inchers and then— and Wes is that all subsurface?
Speaker 5:Are you? Are you throwing big streamers, I guess? Is that what you're doing in March and April?
Speaker 6:We a lot of times, yes, sir, A lot of times. But then, um depends on how warm it is, we get a lot of frogs that come out and we'll throw big deer hair frog patterns right against the bank and they will explode on that. Um, uh, and we do that, the frog stuff. We'll do all the way until almost almost May, late May, Um, I think those frogs get over top of their nesting area and those fish just get so pissed off.
Speaker 5:They just rip them to pieces. Dude, that is wild. That's almost like mousing, is that I mean? Are these, are these like deer? Are these like spun flies? Literally surface spun flies. You're stripping across the surface like a mouse.
Speaker 6:Yep, exactly, right, yep, exactly. And we throw them right against the bank and you just rip them, just big chugs, boosh, boosh. Yeah, because there's frogs everywhere at that time, and these smallmouth they hate frogs. I think it's because frogs eat their eggs, I think. But yeah, these bass just go nuts on them.
Speaker 5:So the bass are killing the frogs. They're not just doing it for food. What I'm hearing you say is it's like a defensive response to a frog going through the area.
Speaker 6:Oh, yeah, coming clean out of the water after them, exploding on them.
Speaker 3:You're getting me excited here, Wes. I'm all shaking in my chair.
Speaker 2:Exactly, james is getting all riled up, it doesn't take much, but that works.
Speaker 6:We had a day this spring I guess it was early May we caught, I don't know, 30, 40 bass on nothing but topwater frogs, just ripping them right off the bank. Yeah, it was amazing. Yeah, it's so much fun.
Speaker 5:That's fantastic. Well, and I know that you were saying you know summertime. Of course you know the chances of big days going after big fish. You know, and the great thing about those rivers is you can catch a big fish any day. You never know. But obviously in the summertime you're looking at numbers and a lot of surface. I'm assuming when we're fishing in a week or so, you know a lot of that I would expect will be topwater action, right.
Speaker 6:That's correct, yeah, and we fish our topwaters this time of year. Completely different. It's a dead drift. We cast it out, we let it slap in the water pretty hard and then we just let it drift. We cast it out, we'll let it slap in the water pretty hard and then we just let it drift. If you're on a good drift over a good rocky area, we'll let it drift 30 seconds sometimes and just give it little small twitches and this fish will just kind of sneak up to it and you'll physically watch the big bass swim up to it, inspect it.
Speaker 6:Sometimes they follow it down river and just watching the fly and keeping clients patient enough not to move that fly is critical. You know, it's like don't move it, don't move it, don't move it, let it sit, let it sit, let it sit. Okay, twitch it, twitch it A little more, let it sit, let it sit. Yeah, it's incredible, it's very intense when you see these big bass do this. It is so much fun Because we're throwing these poppers in, sometimes a foot and a half of water, and you think that you know a lot of times you're casting. I'm looking at what I think is a rock and you land it and that damn rock moves.
Speaker 5:That's always a good thing, you know you sound like a permit guy, by the way, wes, when you're saying that Don't move, don't move, don't move, Let us sit let us sit.
Speaker 6:Yeah, it's so fun. That is my favorite time of the year. I mean, guys, I throw four flies, that's all I throw. I throw crayfish, I throw topwater poppers, I throw topwater frogs and I throw baitfish streamers, that's all. I throw bait fish streamers.
Speaker 5:That's all I throw, nothing else. My box is so ordinary and bland because that's all I do. I love it.
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Speaker 5:Let's switch gears a little bit. I want to dive into something you and I both love Wes, it literally flows in your blood and me because I'm a weekend warrior that likes to pretend he can do it effectively which is grouse hunting. But before we do that, I do want to talk a couple of minutes about this third part of your business that I think is so smart and you're doing such a good job, which is the lodging and the accommodation and I hate to say lifestyle, but God, it's almost what it's, almost you know what you're creating. You told me one time you said a great comment one time about, about your relationship with your clients, and I would imagine Jamie senses some of this too. But I remember you said that you know these, these are obviously these are great friends and you've got you and your business. You got a ton are obviously these are great friends and you've got you and your business, you've got a ton of repeat clients, but that your relationship you know.
Speaker 5:You mentioned that some of these fishermen or hunters, you know they may only spend one or two days with you a year, but obviously they think about that day or two every single day. I mean you're out doing it every day, but you are very aware of the fact that your clients only get you for a day or two, you know, and they and that moment and that interaction is so important to you because it has to carry them until the following fall. You know, and talk about that a little bit because before we go full bore into kind of that lodging part of your business, talk about your relationship with your clients, because I thought that was one night you and I sat up drinking whiskey and talking about that. I thought it was so interesting.
Speaker 6:Yeah, and it is absolutely critical. And I do. I admire and I do love my clients. I love every one of them to come in. I mean, without them I couldn't do it in the first place, and I respect them. Um, you know these, these guys, a lot of these guys, they don't have to come with me, um, and they choose to, and it means a lot when they they make that decision that they want to go with me. Um, and it's an intimate relationship in the sense that when they're there, you know, I don't want them to have to worry about anything, I don't want them to have to think about anything. I want them to enjoy their time and I want them to really get back to the root of who they really are, because after that weekend, they go right back into the board meeting or they go right back into the bank or wherever it is they're going to, and they don't get to act themselves, you know anymore, for until the next year or the next trip they take with me, and I want them to really feel like they are at home with their extended family, if that makes any sense. Yeah, because it's important to me.
Speaker 6:I don't want a big, massive lodging operation where there's 30 people running amok and wait staff everywhere. I want the staff that I do have. I want them to know the client name. I want the clients to know their name so that they feel like they're a part of this little operation. It's a little operation that makes a huge impact and that's what I want.
Speaker 6:It's quality over quantity and it's good. It's enjoyable. I'm super passionate about it. It's enjoyable and I'm super passionate about it. You know my role now is more on the hospitality side than the guiding side. I still get out with guys, you know, as much as I can, but you know my guide team. They're probably better guys than I am, honestly, and my role is to keep them busy, keep them going and making sure the clients are having just a phenomenal time while they're there. That could be making my world famous. Old fashioned to, to pouring glasses of red wine to, I don't know, helping their son, you know, learn how to chop firewood. So, in all the above, that's what I love. I love it. I really do.
Speaker 5:Tell us, before we dive a little bit more into the actual kind of the experience right that you set up for your clients and say you know fishing on these rivers. Tell us about how people get in touch with you. Tell us about you know Wesley Hodges Fly Fishing and Bird Hunting. You know, I know is the name of your company and Wes. Am I correct in that you're now an Orvis-endorsed?
Speaker 6:That's correct. Yeah, we've been. We're an Orvis-endorsed outfitter. We've been that way, for it's the third year now that we've been doing that and that endorsement is absolutely phenomenal.
Speaker 5:Well, it doesn't come easy. I mean, it's an amazing accomplishment. Two questions, and then we'll get back to some of the sporting questions. Two questions just for our listeners. If people wanted to come to Southwest Virginia and experience fly fishing in the James River, the New River, et cetera. Two questions One how do they get a hold of you? Is there an Instagram? Is there a website? You know what's the best way for them to get a hold of you? And then two, just logistically, where are people flying into? Do they fly to Charlotte, north Carolina, and drive up? Do they fly into Blacksburg, virginia? Tell us about those two things.
Speaker 6:Yeah, so you can find me all over the internet. You can just Google Wesley Hodges and again, my name will pop up with all the links and all the stuff, thanks to my incredible marketing guys. My website is WesleyHodgesFlyFishingcom. That'll take you to the website. On the website is my cell phone. I answer every single call that comes in. Each client speaks to me directly about the trip they're looking to do. So that's one of the key pillars of my business is making sure that I talk to each and every client. Social media, facebook, youtube I'm on all those things Again, thanks to my marketing guy. I'm on all those things Again, thanks to my marketing guy. I'm not a very cocky person, but he's done a good job putting my name everywhere. And as far as logistics, you know, we have the Roanoke Airport, which is about 45 minutes to the east of us. Richmond is about three hours away. Charlotte's about three and a half hours away.
Speaker 6:Charlottesville- about an hour and a half. All those locations have airports. Dc, you know, if you're a driving kind of person, we're three hours from DC, three hours from Charlotte, three hours from Richmond Just a pretty unique location because we're three hours from most of the major cities in the area and you can easily fly to those as well.
Speaker 5:I love it. That's perfect, Go ahead.
Speaker 3:Jamie, incredible man. So, wesley, if it's all right with you, I think we're going to wrap up this week's show and if you got a couple, got a little bit more time. I know you're in the parking lot, the engine's running, I don't know what the gas prices are over there, but love to love to keep going with this conversation, maybe do a little two-part action here and, uh, kind of dabble a little bit more into your, your actual. You got some pretty unique accommodations and also we gotta gotta go with all the the hunting as well. So if that works for you, um, we'll wrap this one up right now. I'm jamie bacilli, here with my co-host, rider nolton and our wonderful guest Wesley Hodges, down in Virginia. Thanks for listening to Untamed Pursuits on the Outdoor Journal Radio Podcast Network. As the world gets louder and louder, the lessons of our natural world become louder and louder.
Speaker 8:The lessons of our natural world become harder and harder to hear, but they are still available to those who know where to listen. I'm Jerry Ouellette and I was honoured to serve as Ontario's Minister of Natural Resources. However, my journey into the woods didn't come from politics. Rather, it came from my time in the bush and a mushroom. In 2015, I was introduced to the birch-hungry fungus known as chaga, a tree conch with centuries of medicinal use by Indigenous peoples all over the globe.
Speaker 8:After nearly a decade of harvest use, testimonials and research, my skepticism has faded to obsession and I now spend my life dedicated to improving the lives of others through natural means. But that's not what the show is about. My pursuit of the strange mushroom and my passion for the outdoors has brought me to the places and around the people that are shaped by our natural world. On Outdoor Journal Radio's, under the Canopy podcast, I'm going to take you along with me to see the places, meet the people. That will help you find your outdoor passion and help you live a life close to nature. And under the canopy. Find Under the Canopy now on Spotify, apple Podcasts or wherever else you get your podcasts.
Speaker 2:How did a small-town sheet metal mechanic come to build one of Canada's most iconic fishing lodges? I'm your host, steve Nitzwicky, and you'll find out about that and a whole lot more on the Outdoor Journal Radio Network's newest podcast, diaries of a Lodge Owner. But this podcast will be more than that. Every week on Diaries of a Lodge Owner, I'm going to introduce you to a ton of great people, share their stories of our trials, tribulations and inspirations, learn and have plenty of laughs along the way. Meanwhile we're sitting there bobbing along trying to figure out how to catch a bass, and we both decided one day we were going to be on television doing a fishing show. My hands get sore a little bit when I'm reeling in all those bass in the summertime, but that might be for more fishing than it was punching.
Speaker 2:So confidently you said hey, pat, have you ever eaten a drum? Find Diaries of a Lodge Owner now on Spotify, apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.