Untamed Pursuits
Embark on a wild adventure like never before with the groundbreaking podcast, "Untamed Pursuits."
Join the intrepid duo of renowned author and outdoor enthusiast, Ridr Knowlton, alongside the seasoned professional fishing guide, Jamie Pistilli, as they traverse the globe in pursuit of the world's most exciting fishing and hunting destinations, and the fascinating creatures that live there. From the lush rainforests of the Amazon to the icy depths of the Arctic Circle, each episode promises heart-pounding encounters, captivating tales, and invaluable insights into the natural world.
With Ridr's profound storytelling and Jamie's unparalleled expertise, prepare to be transported to the front lines of adventure, where every roar, splash, and rustle ignites the senses and leaves listeners on the edge of their seats. "Untamed Pursuits" isn't just a podcast—it's an adrenaline-fueled odyssey that will redefine your perception of nature and leave you craving more. Buckle up for the ride of a lifetime!
Untamed Pursuits
Episode 10: Our Favourite Pursuits Pt. 1
Is tarpon fishing the ultimate test for any angler? Brace yourself for an action-packed episode of Untamed Pursuits with Ridr Knowlton and Jamie Pistilli, as we unravel Jamie's vibrant escapades across Las Vegas and Los Angeles. From enduring the scorching heat of Death Valley to rocking out at a Sammy Hagar concert, Jamie’s journey through contrasting landscapes sets the stage for his thrilling tales. Our conversation takes a fun twist with a story about Pete Bowman's one-of-a-kind Van Halen-themed fishing reel, blending music and fishing in an unforgettable way.
Shark fishing enthusiasts, this one's for you! We recount the electrifying moments of catching unique shark species like the stunning leopard shark. Listen as we share our passion for these majestic creatures and the heart-pounding experiences they've provided. Through interactions with devoted anglers on California's piers to savoring a mouth-watering calico bass barbecue, this segment is a testament to our deep respect and admiration for the ocean's wonders.
Back in 2016,. Frank and I had a vision to amass the single largest database of muskie angling education material anywhere in the world.
Speaker 2:Our dream was to harness the knowledge of this amazing community and share it with passionate anglers just like you.
Speaker 1:Thus the Ugly Pike podcast was born and quickly grew to become one of the top fishing podcasts in North America.
Speaker 2:Step into the world of angling adventures and embrace the thrill of the catch with the Ugly Pike Podcast. Join us on our quest to understand what makes us different as anglers and to uncover what it takes to go after the infamous fish of 10,000 casts.
Speaker 1:The Ugly Pike Podcast isn't just about fishing. It's about creating a tight-knit community of passionate anglers who share the same love for the sport. Through laughter, through camaraderie and an unwavering spirit of adventure. This podcast will bring people together.
Speaker 2:Subscribe now and never miss a moment of our angling adventures. Tight lines everyone.
Speaker 1:Find Ugly Pike now on Spotify, apple Podcasts or wherever else you get your podcasts.
Speaker 3:Welcome to the latest episode of the Outdoor Journal Radio Podcast Network's newest show, untamed Pursuits. This is Ryder Knowlton, and I am joined by my partner in crime freshly back from Las Vegas, jamie Pistelli. Jamie, are you awake with us today?
Speaker 4:Hey, I'm a little jet-lagged, I won't lie. The three-hour I gained three hours going there and I don't think I ever want to go to bed again. I'm having a good time, Good to be back, but my clock's a little messed up. How are you doing, Ryder?
Speaker 3:I'm sensing some serious energy coming from you and I'm interpreting that as a lot of adrenaline that hasn't worn off yet. You sound like a guy who's just come back from Vegas, probably has not slept much in the last several days, and you're riding that high, and what that tells me is two things One, you're going to have a lot of energy for the show and then, two, you're going to probably pass out for about four days as soon as we get done with the show.
Speaker 4:That's the plan. Like we, you know, we were over there, my wife and I, and it was the hottest I've ever been in. It was 118 degrees for our American listeners and I'm not going to do the Canadian conversion, but it was so hot. We drove through Death Valley and the rental car hit 118, which I was like how is this even possible?
Speaker 3:but uh, dude, you drove through Death Valley in August. That's got to be under the like the National Park Safety Protocol. That's got to be like number two or three on. Don't do. That's amazing, you did that.
Speaker 4:But it was like, hey, let's go on a vacation, oh my God, Vegas is so cheap and hit the send button without realizing that we're going to Vegas in August, which is a desert right, it's hot in Canada in August.
Speaker 3:It's hot in Canada, let it's hot in Canada. Let's hit Death Valley in August. That'll be a nice, refreshing getaway from the heat in the Canadian summer.
Speaker 4:Let's go extra hot and spicy you know. But you know we hit Vegas for a couple of days Once you see Sammy Hagar, holy jumping. Hey, if I have half the energy as Sammy at 76, I'll be good to go. You know that guy, what a show. And then he brings.
Speaker 3:So much energy man.
Speaker 3:I was listening to an interview with him the other day because you and I both I know you and I are both hardcore like legit. You know Van Halen guys from the old days and and and obviously you know there's there's David Lee Roth fans out there, there's Sammy fans out there. But either way, whatever you are man, you cannot argue the fact that Sammy Hagar brings it every night and he's just a fun, easy, easy kind of guy that you can picture walking up, sitting next to a bar and just hang out with you all night.
Speaker 4:That's it. And on our podcast network, Mr Pete Bowman has a fishing reel. He's got a Van Halen Baycaster. No way, I saw it live. Yeah, I saw it live in action and it catches fish.
Speaker 3:When you say like Van Halen, do you mean like a diver down painted reel, or it just says Van Halen, oh, guaranteed.
Speaker 4:It's like the. This is going to hit our socials hard. It is like a Van Halen fishing reel. That's fantastic. So you know, pete and I like the heavy shit. There'll be a new song that'll come on the radio and we'll take a screenshot of the you know, uh, xfm, whatever and then fire it across and oh yeah, yeah, peace down with that. But that's pretty, I gotta say, seeing a show in vegas unbelievable like.
Speaker 3:And then you drove and then you drove right. You drove from vegas to to la, which is obviously you know you. You mentioned death valley, but that that is. That's an incredible adventure in itself and we talk. This whole show is about adventures, right places to go around the world, cool people, interesting places and you did the legitimate drive from Vegas to LA. So many, my God, talk about stories hidden in the desert, but you did that. Tell us about that drive. Death Valley was 118 degrees, but tell us about the drive.
Speaker 4:So it's weird. In Canada we have different plants and different scenery when you're driving right. So to go through a desert for me was unbelievable, Like there's lack of plants, lack of animals, lack of everything. And then you start Googling what lives here, what's here, Like it was really cool to be in a different part of North America.
Speaker 3:Well, I can't imagine any place more different than Ontario, right Than literally the desert of Nevada. I mean, my gosh, what a you know. It's just you're so remote and what's crazy is out of the blue. Then you show up and you're in LA, or out of the blue, you show up and you're in Vegas. But between those two, man, there's a whole lot of nothing.
Speaker 4:It's just there's a whole lot of nothing. It's just talk about a remote drive. It's pretty crazy, yeah. And when you get to LA LA, I'd never been to the West Coast before the people were unbelievable. There was no bugs, the weather was good and the ocean is cold. As much as it's south, the water is very cold. Everybody's wearing wetsuits. We, we went for lunch and hunting the beach and people were in wetsuits. There was a national I don't know what the national surfing championship of the world. But it's pretty cool to see a whole different. Like you're south but but it's cold water, the water's cold.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah, our water is hot, I had to shut down the muskie fishery, but down there it's, it's cold. You know what's so crazy, man? Well, and you were in southern california, you know, of course, northern, you get up into northern california and it's cold.
Speaker 3:You know what's so crazy, man? Well, and you were in Southern California, you know, of course, northern. You get up into Northern California and it's famous, right, the waters around San Francisco are famous for being icy, icy cold. You guys get to LA and you go to see some of the spots and, you know, you kind of get your arms around the place, hit some of the highlights, but what's, you know? What's funny is, you know you're obviously you checked out Hollywood. You checked out, you know, probably, the Venice beach area, maybe got up into the Hills a little bit, but at the end, and I'm sure, hit some of the music spots. But what you were telling me is just, you were so excited about getting out there and trying to get some of those West coast species right, and in other words, get out there and go fishing, and were you guys able to pull that off? I mean, I'm hearing some stories that it sounds like you guys actually were able to get out there and do a little fishing.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so it's tough. It was like when you travel you get a lot on the plate and if you don't book in advance like I'm a fishing guide, people book me months in advance but at the same time you get a lot of hey, I'm in town, are you free tomorrow? And sometimes that works and sometimes it doesn't right. So my wife and I kind of pulled in and we're like I don't know what the weather is going to be like.
Speaker 4:I know what it's like to be a guide, right. Like should have been here yesterday, come back tomorrow, type mentality, right. So we booked a place in Oceanside. So we're in Oceanside. There's a couple of great boats that came out of there and I said, listen, let's go down and have lunch. Came out of there and I said, listen, let's, let's go down, have lunch, watch the boats come in and talk to the captains and see what's up and then, if things are good, we'll go tomorrow. So a couple of boats came in. The first one was like ah, you could just see, you know, people were walking off the vessel with their head down and, like, you know, not good. And then the second boat came in. People were high-fiving friends for life.
Speaker 4:I'm like, okay, this is the boat we're going to head out with, yep, right. So they got off and, you know, chatted with the captain and I said do you guys head out tomorrow? He goes, ah, tomorrow's a really slow day. I said, well, we're up from captain, you know, we're up from canada. Love to get out with you. And, uh, kept chatting. He goes ah, forget it, you know, two, three more people. We'll, we'll let you know. So I said I kept texting him like what's up, what's up, what's up, and then I guess he moved a full day to a half day and that whatever. Anyway, we got on this drift boat. Captain ricky, I'm not gonna give him a big plug until he he's a guest on the show which might be in a couple weeks yeah, there you go.
Speaker 4:But we got out and, like you said, like you're in a new place on the planet, there's new species. You don't know how to, how to conquer those fish. You don't know how to like. It's totally different right.
Speaker 3:So what's, what's the weather like? Is you're heading out the boat, is it rolly, is it choppy, is it calm? I mean you're talking about, obviously, you know, direct ocean waters, you know, versus, uh, the Ottawa River. So, like, what are the conditions as you're heading out? How far out are you going?
Speaker 4:We're going out like two miles, like pretty easy Yep, and there's like one two-foot waves, Like it's ideal conditions for vacation right, the cooler's full, people are happy and there's also so many different fish, like it's a different ocean, right. So we went out. I said what's biting? I said, uh, uh, there's sand bass. There's a different kind of like the Barracuda, which is not the Great Barracuda I don't know what the actual formal, it's a smaller Barracuda and then the Calico Bass or. But anyway, we went out not knowing quite what to expect.
Speaker 3:Well, it's interesting what you say about the barracuda, and I never knew that. So you're saying there's a Western barracuda because the one that you know you think about is the sailfish. Right, you know, you cannot compare a Pacific sailfish to an Atlantic sailfish. The Pacific sailfish is probably what two or three times the size of an Atlantic sailfish. Sailfish is probably what two or three times the size of an Atlantic sailfish. But you're telling me that there's a species that the barracuda out west is a different species and it's smaller than what we have on the East Coast. I never knew that.
Speaker 4:It's interesting, yeah, and they were kind of skinnier, the color pattern was different and I saw them and I'm like it's a barracuda. Like you know, if you listen to the show, I love toothy fish, right. So we caught one and it came up. It was kind of like a needlefish meets a barracuda. The guy was saying they don't get much bigger than maybe 36, 40 inches.
Speaker 3:Wow, that's interesting yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so they fought great, but it's a different, it's, it's they don't get that big but they're out packing your bait and if you, you know, kind of dragging behind the boat, they it's, it's over. So but the uh, the bass fishing was unbelievable. So we got out, we're drifting and everybody was lit up and each spot we went to we kind of went further and further from the dock and each spot got better and better and better.
Speaker 3:And how many folks are on the boat. Is this a big charter with, like another you know, 10, 15 other people on the boat off each side, or is it a smaller boat? How many people do you go out with? Yeah, so normally they get up to like 30 people?
Speaker 4:Sure, but they did. They kind of made an exception for us. So there was maybe 12 people. Oh yeah, man, you can't beat that. And the crew was unbelievable, like they had burgers going, they had cold drinks, like it was unbelievable and the bite was great, like we probably caught 30, 40 fish, oh, my goodness, you know. And we caught my wife caught a leopard shark, which is such a beautiful animal. It kind of looks like a nurse shark but it has the most amazing color pattern, kind of like, if you're a musky angler, like the tiger musky of sharks.
Speaker 3:I can't believe. You know, and you and I are both species nerds, right, and that's going to. I mean, that's kind of interestingly, that's kind of the topic of the show today species. We'll get to that in a second, but let's talk more about this leopard shark. You and I are total species nerds and and and we appreciate unusual ones. And you were telling me that, like that is that, and I know you've done a lot of shark fishing, you've caught lots of different species of sharks, but that was one, not that it's a big shark or not, that it's a big danger shark they're not. But man, are they interesting and they're beautiful and it's just an unusual shark and that's one you would want to catch and darn it if you guys didn't get one. That's amazing.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it was super cool and before we went out the night before ran down to the pier because if you're kind of like a grassroots fishing guy. So like fishing peers throughout north america, especially florida and california, you get to meet some unique people.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, man, oh yeah, that's the real deal, that's that's. Those are real folks yeah, we got down in the end and my family grew up being peer folks, so I can say that as a as a you know byproduct of pure folks. So yeah, no, I'm with you oh, hell, yeah.
Speaker 4:So like we get down on the beach, you know the end of the pier and I was like what are you guys fishing for? And they're like sharks. I'm like, okay, man, so kind of, sit down, have a coffee, and then we're watching everybody. And then, as you get to know people, they start to, you know, open up a little bit. And I was like what's the craziest fish you ever caught off this pier? Man buddy's like. I got a 400 pound mako shark. Can you imagine like off a pier, are you?
Speaker 6:kidding me?
Speaker 4:yeah, but they had all the red gear. They had two carts full of gear. They're pulling out and I guess the Oceanside Pier had a huge fire a couple months ago so you can only go out maybe 75% of the way. But they were saying they even caught great whites off this pier like juvenile great whites. I've always said to myself, when I catch a great white, like juvenile great whites, Like I've always said to myself, when I catch a great white, I'm done fishing Like I'm retired.
Speaker 3:I think catching. Can you imagine catching a juvenile great white? That's almost cooler than catching, that's. I mean, I don't know what you do if you hook into a big great white, but imagine catching a 60, 70 pound great white shark. You reel it in. You think it's a big tuna or you know Lord knows what it is and you pull it in and you see the shape, you see the belly and you see the head structure and you're like holy smokes, that's a damn great white shark. That's incredible.
Speaker 4:But even just to have a photo with a great white that you caught like I don't know Exactly exactly so you know, southern california, there's lots of great white sharks and we're sitting there watching people surf.
Speaker 4:We're in their seal color bathing suits and I'm going and there's seals and and I don't know if it's a seal or sea lion, but it's crazy to watch people out swim in there. Like after hearing all the stories from the guys in the boats and the people in the pier, I'm like there's no chance in hell. I'm going swimming.
Speaker 5:Forget it.
Speaker 3:I can't imagine. I can't imagine reeling a fish in and I guess, right here at the end of the pier. I mean, I just remember the old days. You have to walk the fish, you know, back to the beach, get off the pier right, figure that maneuver, and then you bring it in. If it's big enough, you bring it in on the beach. I just can't imagine going through that process and the end of that whole thing. You look down and you see this. You know the sturdy, you know dorsal fin, and you look down there and there's a four-foot, you know great white shark right in front of you. Obviously you want to get it right back in the water. I mean, they're such a delicate and special animal right, they really are. But I can't imagine what an amazing experience it would be to have one and maybe hold it by the tail as you let it go. I mean, geez, that's just incredible.
Speaker 4:And they're protected species so you can't and and fish for them on purpose. But if you hook them you gotta be careful and right and release them, but and release them right away and what a, what a crazy fish to catch, especially from shore.
Speaker 3:It's a it's just incredible, it's unbelievable and it's like you know. Well, it's like your leopard shark. Well, it's like your leopard shark. You know you weren't targeting the leopard shark, but you got it and you know you'll never forget that that may be the fish you remember of this trip. You know of all the stuff you did. You know you may forget about driving across Death Valley, but you'll never forget about catching that leopard shark. It's just amazing.
Speaker 4:And the calico bass. We caught a bunch of them and we had a barbecue at the Airbnb. Get a little fish fry. I haven't harvested a fish in a while, so it's nice to have some fresh fish, especially from the ocean. You know, the water's cold and nice. Oh, I love it. I love it.
Speaker 3:Gotta love eating fresh fish, but normally I put them back. There's nothing like it. We, you know my family, grew up chasing bluefish on the Outer Banks and we did it for food. You know, we grew up on a little farm and we were self-sustaining and my dad was hunting deer, turkey and squirrel and rabbits and that's what we're eating. And twice a year we'd head down to the Outer Banks of North Carolina and try to hit the bluefish runs and that was usually in April and November.
Speaker 3:But the part of those trips, one of my most memorable parts of those trips, you know, even as a little kid, and that's where I really got my, it's surely where I got my intro to saltwater fishing, you know, starting at gosh, probably five or six years old. You know, all the way through my teens up till I was surely in my late teens. But what I'll never forget are the piers and you know, in those days the Outer Banks of North Carolina had these rickety old wooden piers and a lot of those have been lost in hurricanes and, you know, rebuilt with these. You know the new modern, you know concrete piers, but this was back in the 70s, maybe early 80s, mostly late 70s, and those old rickety piers were just, god, the stories you know. You could just see the stories just etched in the slime and knife marks, you know, on the edges of those old piers and I'll just never forget at night going up there at night and you could walk out. You'd have you know kind of the story.
Speaker 3:Probably in those days you'd have a little you know pinball games and stuff in the in the fish shop. Then there'd be people fishing, you know, and then way out at the end you'd look out to the very end where the pier would kind of tee, at the end and there'd be these scary looking dudes with coolers of Schlitz beer, you know, and and all these big heavy reels. And in those days they used to. They did two things they would either float the bait out on big either balloons or big trash bags that were inflated, or they actually would kind of draw straws and one of the guys would row the bait out.
Speaker 3:Now this is central Atlantic and of course nowadays you realize there's great whites all over that area too. But the species you know back in those days the species you were thinking about, you know off of North Carolina, were like the dusky shark or you know great big tiger sharks and, of course, hammerheads and things like that. But the dusky shark was probably the most common for big, big sharks coming in and you'd see the guy you know and these guys would be out there at midnight, one, two in the morning doing this and one of the poor guys would, you know, pull the short straw and have to row that bait out. Can you imagine getting in a little dinghy and rowing a tuna head out, you know, 300 yards into the cold Atlantic at 2 in the morning, knowing that you know you're fishing for tiger sharks and stuff like that? Can't imagine.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's a straw you don't want to have, right Like you want to be the net guy? Or the rope guy or the photo guy, but you don't want to be the paddle, the big guy.
Speaker 3:No, I'm going to sit on the cooler, drink a Schlitz and then crank the reel when I need to. I don't want to be those other guys.
Speaker 8:What brings people together more than fishing and hunting? How about food? I'm Chef Antonio Muleka and I've spent years catering to the stars. Now, on Outdoor Journal Radio's Eat Wild podcast, luis Hookset and I are bringing our expertise and Rolodex to our real passion the outdoors.
Speaker 2:Each week we're bringing you inside the boat tree stand or duck blind and giving you real advice that you can use to make the most out of your fish and game.
Speaker 8:You're going to flip that duck breast over. Once you get a nice hard sear on that breast, you don't want to sear the actual meat. And it's not just us chatting here. If you can name a celebrity, we've probably worked with them and I think you might be surprised who likes to hunt and fish. When Kit Harrington asks me to prepare him sashimi with his bass, I couldn't say no. Whatever Taylor Sheridan wanted, I made sure I had it. Burgers, steak, anything off the barbecue. That's a true cowboy. All Jeremy Renner wanted to have was lemon ginger shots all day. Find Eating Wild now on Spotify, apple Podcasts or wherever else you get your podcasts.
Speaker 3:Hi everybody. I'm Angelo Viola and I'm Pete Bowman.
Speaker 7:Now you might know us as the hosts of Canada's favourite fishing show.
Speaker 5:But now we're hosting a podcast that's right. Every Thursday, ang and I will be right here in your ears bringing you a brand new episode of Outdoor Journal Radio.
Speaker 7:Hmm, Now what are we going to talk about for two hours every week?
Speaker 5:Well, you know there's going to be a lot of fishing.
Speaker 8:I knew exactly where those fish were going to be and how to catch them, and they were easy to catch.
Speaker 7:Yeah, but it's not just a fishing show.
Speaker 3:We're going to be talking to people from all facets of the outdoors, from athletes.
Speaker 5:All the other guys would go golfing Me and Gar.
Speaker 8:To scientists, to chefs.
Speaker 5:And whoever else will pick up the phone.
Speaker 7:Wherever you are.
Speaker 5:Outdoor Journal Radio seeks to answer the questions and tell the stories of all those who enjoy being outside. Find us on Spotify, apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 3:Hey, listen, we got a really fun. I love our topics, you know, sometimes we just dive into these topics. We did a show recently about bucket list trips, which was super fun. And you know, today we've got another really fun topic, which is species. You know, and talking about our favorite species, whether it's hunting or fishing, whatever it is, you know we're going to talk and compare notes on.
Speaker 3:You know, what are the species of all the different types of sporting pursuits that we've done, what are the ones that you know really stand out to us as memorable, and why is that and where have we done it, and all that kind of stuff. And so I'm excited about this show, man, because you and I are definitely species nerds but we also appreciate, you know, all those parts of a trip beyond just the catching and the shooting, all the other stuff. And so, you know, I'm really interested to kind of, to kind of hear you know and compare notes on, on, on, on how each of us kind of look at whatever, whatever. What are the species that for us stand out? And why don't we start? Why don't we start, man, with you? Take the first one what is? Tell us one of your, what's, one of your favorite species to pursue as a fisherman, and then maybe you know why like to pursue as a fisherman and then maybe you know why.
Speaker 4:Like, what is it about that fish that you just love? All right, I'm going to go a little off board here. I'm a guide up north, so I'm going to go my vacation, but the fish that gets me excited when I'm not fishing for clients or I'm not netting fish, I'm going to have to go with the mighty tarpon. Oh yeah, so you know, down south, tarpon and I had a love-hate relationship. Yeah, I worked on a cruise ship. I hooked one in Puerto Rico off where the side of the ship was, and it was only like 40, 50 pounds but it broke me off and that drove me crazy. And then a year later I hooked one off Cozumel.
Speaker 4:I was working on the ship at that time and I hooked a tiny little bait fish and tarpon came in and nailed it and I got spooled. And the problem with that was I knew I couldn't get back to Fort Lauderdale until Saturday so I had no line all week. So that kind of pissed me off. But tarpon for me. Until I landed one.
Speaker 4:I hooked another one in Cuba while on a family vacation on a popper, and it was like you know, the tide was coming in this little canal and I was throwing the topwater and this fish erupted and busted me off. Same situation where, you know, didn't get the fish in, went back, couldn't sleep all night thinking about the fish and I think the mighty tarpon has always haunted me in my dreams and has always, until I caught my first one, which was probably about 15 years ago. We did a a guy's trip down to the Keys and you know, we got a guide out of key west and I got 120 pound fish. Oh, that's man, that's a great fish.
Speaker 4:And this fish was I don't know if it, I don't know what happened, but it we had to chase it. We landed it, I think a mile and a half from where we hooked it, right and it was on conventional gear. But we got off the side of the boat and I took my shirt off and I was just about to jump in and the guy pulls me over and he's like don't jump, you're gonna die. He's like there's hammerheads underneath.
Speaker 3:I was gonna say yeah, exactly, welcome to that. Welcome to the 13 foot hammerhead that's following the poor tarpon around. Exactly, yeah.
Speaker 4:I mean, look at the fish finders, Like we're in 40 feet of water and I just see this like screen lit up and I'm like, oh okay, we can do a little boat release.
Speaker 3:It's all cool. How long so you talk about those first couple ones you lost and those fish that you lost. Did you get some good jumps out of those early tarpon? You know, was it a take and just a screaming run and then you kind of lost them, or did you get to experience a couple jumps?
Speaker 4:Yeah, so the one in Cuba, the last one, we were in a tiny little canal and I had a popper out and I threw it out and I don't know what happened. I was on vacation so I cast it out, I think I probably let it sit, let it sit in my Cuba Libre and then waited a bit and then all of a sudden, when I did the first pull, it was like boom, and then the, the water erupted like nothing you've ever seen, right, and then the fish screamed and jumped, jumped, jumped, jumped, jumped and then snapped. And then, you know, a Canadian unpleasant word came out of my mouth, but at the same time I was like I knew it wasn't the land of the fish anyway. And you just kind of enjoy the moment of the take, right, like sometimes the take is the greatest part of the fight anyway. And you just kind of enjoy the moment of the take, right, like sometimes the take is the greatest part of the fight anyway.
Speaker 3:No, and you could argue, tarpon, it is the greatest part, I mean, for a lot of people. There's a lot of guys that love to fight. But man, I, I just, I really think with tarpon, that take, meaning the visual, especially if it's a visual right interaction, you know, you just the, the approach and and then the take is just so exciting with those fish, that big upturned mouth and they kind of turn and go up at it and the big gulp, it's just, it's just an amazing thing yeah, and there's such a hard fighting fish too.
Speaker 4:So especially it was like a little tiny canal and I'd caught a couple of kudas there before then, so it was cool just to see the fish jump. And then it broke me off and I reeled in my line and went okay, tomorrow's a new day? Yeah, exactly, but ultimately hooking them is almost just as great as landing them. I had nobody to take a photo and it didn't really matter, you don't really need a photo, it's the memory. I closed my eyes. I can picture that take and that run, every single day.
Speaker 3:So the one you landed in the Keys, you're saying 120 pounds, that is a great, that's an enormous fish and you know tarpon's one of those things. Man, I think it's such an exciting fish. I know that there's growth right there's. You know they talk about whitetail hunting and you know antler shrinkage as you walk up sometimes. You know tarpon, you know I'm sure there's a lot of 80 pound tarpon that people think are, you know, 100 pounds and there's probably a lot of. You know fish that people think are in that 140 to 150 pound range that probably are maybe 120 pound fish. 120 pound tarpon is an enormous fish and and that's you know, that's what a six and a half foot, seven foot fish I mean. That's an incredible thing you caught.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that fish was one of the greatest catches of my life, right. So, and then I hadn't been after charpin, and I saw one last year when I was paddling, you know, on the west coast of florida, but I have not targeted them in a couple years. That's got to be a trip that I got to do again, you know oh my gosh.
Speaker 3:And you know what's interesting. I'll just roll right into. It's funny, dude. My first number one on my list, baby tarpon, and I'll explain that in a second. But I think it's so funny that you and I, of all the species, fishing species, hunting species, of everything and we didn't compare notes on this, we just kind of wrote down our thoughts Both of us happened to pick tarpon as our number one.
Speaker 3:So I had a chance to go, like you did. I had a chance to go to Cuba and fish, maybe two years ago, and for me the focus was probably permit. But what I've realized is that they've got, you know, we were fishing southwest Cuba, down off, kind of to the southwestern corner, some of the islands off the southwestern side of Cuba, and that area has these incredible resident fish that are in that 30 to 50 pound range, and so they're real accessible. They're pretty predictable, meaning they're, you know, the locations are pretty predictable and it's just this awesome size man, it's just incredible size to fish for, right, they're big enough to. You know, a 50 pound tarpon, a 30 pound tarpon hell, a five pound tarpon still looks and acts like a 150 pound tarpon. A 30-pound tarpon hell, a five-pound tarpon still looks and acts like a 150-pound tarpon, but it's just smaller. But you know, these 30 and 40 and 50-pounders are such a great size and I never realized.
Speaker 3:I talk to guys now that are really hardcore tarpon guys. You know I'm more of a weekend warrior but you know my buddies who are really legit tarpon guys have seen this. I'd never seen this before. The water was so clear. We're fishing some of these deep canals and I never realized that the tarpon light up when they hit a fly, you know, and so I've seen that right with Mahi offshore, I've seen it with billfish offshore and obviously they talk about, you know, people realizing the science of the luminescence, right with fish. But I'd never seen in such clear water, a tarpon turn, come up and hit a fly from below where you can see the gill plates open up, the mouth open up and the gill plates in the face just light up, green and blue. It's just incredible and, god man, you almost wish you didn't have to fight it Cause you just want to see that take again. Like you were saying, the take of a tarpon is so exciting.
Speaker 4:We were, we were doing. We hooked a whole bunch of big fish off bridges. One time when a guy's trip and that was the only time in my life I ever said, wow, I really hope we catch a small one yeah, because the big fish were kicking our asses and you know, especially a bunch of canadian guys that don't know how to reel, don't know how to handle the fish. Like when you're fighting them, they beat you up like 100 pound fish is 100 pound fish. We don't have any hundred pound fish around here, so it's a whole different animal.
Speaker 3:I mean, yeah, well, I mean it's, and, and you know you got your sturgeon out West in BC, but that's more of a, that's like hooking into a fricking Mack truck it's, you know it's not like a ski, do you know like a tarpon is? Know, that's the acceleration, the jump. That's a whole different animal. Um, you know the um, obviously there's incredible history with tarpon. You know you were down on the keys. They talk about the migration of tarpon coming up through the, you know the west side of florida and trying to study kind of exactly how that works and where they go.
Speaker 3:Um, but you do learn that there's areas you can go, you know, for if you want to target some of the bigger fish, you know, obviously in the old days homo sassa was famous and now you get up around Apalachicola, you know, and and kind of that. You know loop, um, uh, in the bend of Florida. Uh, the Keys, you know, has the whole variety from big fish coming through all the way down to baby fish back up in the. You know, back, uh, uh, closer up into the Everglades. But, um, you know, for me I don't know, jamie, I think if, if I had given my choice, I'm I would, I like that 20 to 40 pound size range. I think a 20, you know, 30 pound tarpon is about as all you know. It was about as fun as it gets for me, yeah.
Speaker 4:I can imagine, and then you can get a quick photo and everything else. They're such a cool photo, such a cool fish, yeah, man. So in terms of other species. So we both had tarpon.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I blew mine there. That was a twofer right there on tarpon. Give me your second species.
Speaker 4:Oh boy, I love the gar species. You know long-nosed gar up here. It's such a unique fish. I'm fixating right now on getting down to Texas to go for alligator gar. But I think a fish that breathes water. It's got crazy, crazy teeth. It's hard to hook. It's like a different. It's like I love the trying to dissect the pieces of the puzzle right so to get them to hook.
Speaker 3:Gar, for me, is they're cool, they smell like hell, they're fun. So I know they smell, so you know what's funny is so you're, you know a big part of your business, your clientele, is focused on gar. I mean, that's a big, that's a big part of what you do. You're a musky guide. You're a smallie guide. You know you got lots of species in that Ottawa system, but you know, gar is one of those unique things that people can come and experience and candidly have a really fun day without, maybe, the pressure of muskie, right, or, you know, some of the pressure of smallies sometimes. Sometimes, tell me, are you getting to the point where people are calling you and asking for Gar, or do they call and just want to go fishing and you're like, yeah, man, you know this is a super fun day. Let's maybe we'll hit you know, hit smallies this morning and then we'll spend the afternoon. Who's kind of introducing the concept of Gar now? Is it you or are your customers really starting to kind of figure them out?
Speaker 4:I think you know people are seeing the photos, right, people want a photo with a fish that's different, right, like they got big teeth. They're very photogenic fish, right? So, and they're hard to catch. Yep, and as a guide, it is pretty cool to go, you know, be on the water and see 50, a hundred, 150 fish and guests are casting at them and they hook when they lose one. It's not like musky, where if you hook and lose one, that might have been your chance for the whole day, whereas a gar it's like you know what. It's okay, we've got five hours left.
Speaker 3:There's going to be another one.
Speaker 4:Exactly, we're going to hook some stuff here, so I I think guiding wise. Not only they look cool, you know that you're gonna see multiple fish in a day which it's gonna be a fun day.
Speaker 3:you know what I mean exactly and that and that's what I meant by some of the pressure, you know is that you know you and I both love musky fishing but at the end of the day there's, you know, it's kind of like tarpon fishing for big fish. You know, if you're, if you're, pulled up on a flat looking for a string of tarpon to come by, you may get one, may get one cast all day, you might get one cast for the weekend. You know, and and with that comes the pressure of that cast, I'm assuming, you know, with gar fishing man, you know, if you, if you throw it across their back and spook them or yank them, you know, or just miss the take, you know you're going to get another shot.
Speaker 4:Or a walleye or a pike or something that will steal the fly, like that's happened more times than not, where you catch a walleye in two feet of water and go what the hell happened?
Speaker 3:right, you know what's so funny dude is you know you got species like gar and then the other one that's you know. What's so funny, dude, is you know you got species like gar and then the other one that's you know has come into its own. So much is carp.
Speaker 3:And you think back about these fish that were, you know, in the old days and I hate to even say it, but were considered trash fish right in the old days and people are realizing, no man, these fish are not only fantastic to fish for, but they are incredibly challenging. I mean, I would challenge you to find two. We're going to talk about one in a second, but we're going to challenge you to find two species that are tougher to actually get hooked up with, you know, than a carp or a gar. And then, man, you talk about photos. Obviously we were talking about barracuda earlier, another great, unusual fish that makes a great picture. A gar makes a great photo. And then the big scales on a carp. I think you know it's funny, these fish kind of coming into their own now that in the old days people wouldn't even want to go after.
Speaker 4:It's funny, I don't know, the first ever fish you caught on a fly rod was probably a trout or something similar. Right, I grew up the other way, where I started fly fishing for carp and then musky and then I kind of Carp and musky my God you couldn't have picked.
Speaker 3:You couldn't have picked two harder fish anywhere. I can't believe. You then stuck with it and became a pro.
Speaker 4:And then I went the other way and then like went to go oh, let's go catch some trout, and everything else.
Speaker 3:But I don't know.
Speaker 3:Those are two tough ones, man. Well, I'm going to add a tough one here too. So you've got tarpon, you've got tarpon. I had specifically baby tarpon and then you added, added gar, which is so cool. Um, so I'm gonna go back, I'm gonna add another tough one and I hesitate, I don't know, I almost hesitate putting it on my favorites list because I don't know that I call it a favorite, but it's been such a big part of my life and that's the permit.
Speaker 3:And you know we talk about a, a journey. This is a fish. It's like a, it's like a musky. You know it's not. It's not, you know it's not a fishing trip, it's a journey, meaning it might be many trips, it might be many years, but it's a journey With a muskie. It's 10,000 casts, the permit, who pursued permit in one case for 20 years and believe it or not, I don't know that it was 30 for the other guy, but I know for a fact it was 25. 25 years of trips and pursuits and trying to get his first one on fly and oh my God, you talk about a frustrating fish but just legendary for being just impossible, right to get to take that fly and they become almost this mystical fish right. I got to think it's probably similar to what you know, you hear from people with a muskie that are trying to get their first muskie.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's crazy. I've been on the flats in Florida. I remember I was out on a trip and there was a tailing permit and there were some sharks coming in and the the guy goes, do you want to go for the permit?
Speaker 7:and I went let's go for the sharks and you could tell the guide was right.
Speaker 4:Pissed with my decision. He was going there's a permit right there. I'm like yeah, I'm going to stick with the sharks that being said, I kind of regret that decision to this day, like that's a fish I've never pursued and, like you, I can't say it's my favorite fish, but it's also on the list of fish I need to catch.
Speaker 3:I don't know that I caught. You know it's weird. I think if somebody asked me, do you enjoy permit fishing? You know I enjoy tarpon fishing, I love baby tarpon fishing, meaning it's fun, I wouldn't consider, you know, I wouldn't put permit into that category. You know I enjoy permit fishing.
Speaker 3:But permit fishing to me is more like an adventure, it's more like a challenge, right, you know it's kind of like climbing. If you go to a mountain, climb somewhere, do you enjoy it? Yeah, you know we had some cool views, but it was a challenge. You got to the top of the mountain. You didn't necessarily enjoy huffing and puffing your way, right, the struggle. And I kind of feel like that's kind of like perma. Perma is kind of like climbing a mountain. Climbing a mountain, it's almost like when you get one you got to breathe the sigh of relief and you're like, oh my God, thank God I got it, and you know. And then you want to do it again. But it's like this, it's like it's the challenge, it's the accomplishment of doing it.
Speaker 3:My first permit was so small, my first permit. I can't imagine how light it was. But but I've never in my life wanted to land of fish. I knew what it was. It was, you know I bet it gosh. I don't think it pushed 10 pounds, I think it was a six to eight pound permit and I could care less. It was a legit permit on a legit cast. It actually took the fly. You know, for the listeners that have never permit fish, you know you've got, you know a permit's kind of like a big pompano, a big right, you know big, kind of like a sunfish-shaped fish. But they're famous for coming in and just looking at your fly and sniffing it and swimming around and looking at it from another angle and then just kind of, you know, raising their, you know raising their nose and swimming off Bitches oh, they're just bitches and unlike you know like a tarpon where you're moving the fly, or even a bonefish where you're stripping.
Speaker 3:A lot of times with the with a permit you just let it go because obviously you know they're a crab, unlike those other fish that might be pursuing maybe a bait fish or shrimp. You know the permit. A lot of times you're going after crabs and so that crab is going to drop to the bottom. Going after crabs and so that crab is going to drop to the bottom, it's going to try to bury in the sand and your cast has to try to mimic that. In other words, you cast, you let the fly it's a weighted fly drops to the bottom, the permit goes out and looks at it, sniffs around and it just says you know, screw you, pal. And you see, the finger just swims off. And it just happens over and over and over again for years and years and years.
Speaker 3:And it's maddening, but God man, I just there's something, but there's nothing. To me, there's nothing like standing on the front of a flats boat and knowing that you're looking at the black sickle of a tailing permit and that you know it's one of those. You know this will only happen so many times in my life. And here we go and it's just ah, ah, it's a frustrating but but special fish, give me, give me, what's your next one? So we've got, we got tarpon, we got permit, we got gar. What would be? What's another species? And this could be. You know, I might even, uh, jump on the hunting side a little bit in, a little bit here, but what's another species for you?
Speaker 4:I'm gonna I'm gonna go off the board here with something a little different. I'd love black crappie fishing. That's a good one.
Speaker 3:Man, that's a good one.
Speaker 4:Yep. So we got our brothers on the Eating Wild podcast that love to cook up some recipes. I'm thinking of my shore lunch. I don't harvest a lot of fish, but when I do I think black crappie is even better than walleye like that's such a great choice.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's such a great fish. They fight great, they look great, they're hard to target and you know catching a fish with you know a four weight fly rod or an ultralight, you know setup. There's such a cool fish. And when you get on them, it's like bang bang, bang, bang bang. So there, there, there's such a cool fish.
Speaker 3:Where do you? All right, so tell me, where do you fish? Are you fishing for them in the Ottawa system? Are you going other places when you know? Where do you go if you want to focus on on on black crappie?
Speaker 4:What? Where do you go for that? Yeah, so the only time I actually go for them, you know, probably even two, three days a year, is early season around Ottawa, so I won't say exactly where, unless you want to book me. Ha ha, oh yeah, but I got a couple of spots that in May are crazy. You know, you catch, you know, 30 to 50 fish, bring home a nice little mess for dinner and, and, oh man, I get, I can smell the oil bubbling right now. Exactly what about you?
Speaker 3:right now, let's go I'll Next species on here, man, I'm going to roll right off the black crappie and, if I'm being honest, I cheated here a little bit because I switched out. I was going to talk about bonefish but I'd rather talk about panfish. I mean, we've got. How do you not love? I'm going to put brim on there? I mean, how do you not love brim? With a two-weight or a three-weight fly rod, I'm going to say, you know, a three-weight fly rod with big brim hitting little popper flies. I can't imagine anything more fun anywhere. And yes, it's a great way to introduce people to fly fishing, especially because you fish for them in still water. You're not dealing with the currents. It's the best setup you know for instructing somebody or to introduce somebody to the to fly fishing. But that all aside, god dang, is it fun. It's just, you know, I, I could.
Speaker 4:I could sit and cast little poppers to brim literally for 12 straight hours and I think another thing, like you said, is like super ultra light action, right, tiny rods, totally. I think if you find the right fish and use the right gear, you can have an absolute blast. So even the smaller fish, some people oh, it's not fun, but at the same time if you're using two four-pound tasks, you know super lightweight tippet, you can have an absolute blast with some of the smaller fish.
Speaker 3:You can have a blast. And what's so funny? You say that because you know you'll. You'll go out bass fishing. Let's say you're targeting largemouth and you get into some brim and maybe after a while like, oh man, it's just a brim, you know. And but you're right. Let's say, if you're casting, you know, if you're casting with a six weight for a large mouth and you're making long casts right back up to a shore, and you're, and you keep, you know, keep getting into the brim, you switch your gear around, you know, put down the six weight, pick up the three weight, and you know, and take out the big, you know, the big streamer and put on a just a tiny little cricket pattern or a little popper, and you take a situation that you might, you know, otherwise try to avoid and suddenly, like Holy smokes, this is fun as can be. And you know what's crazy is pound for pound, my God. They I mean they're kind of shaped like a permit but pound for pound, you know, some of those big palm size brim are incredible fighters.
Speaker 4:Yeah, for sure. And especially with the right tackle, like you said, I've got, you know, pike using 100-pound test trolling for muskie, you know you get an 18-inch pike and it's like ugh, I can't believe you soiled my lure. But at the same time, when you have the right gear for the right fish, that is when things are fun, right, like it's like it's a fair battle, right. So rather, be a brim or a bass or whatever, if you have the right tackle, there's nothing better. And then some of the light, some of the light action. Um, fishing, I love it. I love the ultralight stuff, I love the two and four weight stuff. Like you catch a nice fish.
Speaker 3:You can't beat it. And of course, you know a big. You know a fish fry is great and I'm like you. I mean I release 99% of the fish I catch, but there's a few, you know, if I'm catching, you know, schoolie dolphin offshore. We're going to have some tacos for sure.
Speaker 3:But I'll tell you one of the cool things about brim that I love and is that you realize how many different species they are and they're beautiful fish. I mean, if you, you know it's. I love the posters. You know you see these posters on the wall of the different kinds of trout or salmon. And then there's, you know, there's one of the of the various brim and you're like holy smokes, I of the various brim, and you're like holy smokes, I didn't realize there were.
Speaker 3:You know so many species of these things and they're gorgeous colors. You know you think of the. You know the bluegill obviously is the one that everybody thinks of, and down here in the Southeast we have one called a pumpkin seed that's got these gorgeous kind of bright blue and green, almost worm-like designs on their face. The famous one down where we are I don't know if you guys have them up in Canada, but the famous one we have is the redbreast. You know, when you talk about you know catching a big male rooster redbreast, that kind of fishing gets really cool because it's obviously super lightweight Nine times out of 10, you're throwing surface patterns but a lot of those fish live in what you call backwater.
Speaker 3:You know, it's real backwater fishing where you might get into some of the tannin water, blackwater rivers, in other words, clear but colored water. Right, that's actually because of the tannins, of the woods and the cypress and all the swamps that it's flowing through. It just flows clear but stained, and so you get these, you're fishing for them in these cool places. It's fun technical casting because you're aiming between logs, between cypress knees, and you're going for these gorgeous colored fish. I just love it. I don't know if you guys get some of the different species of brim up there, or is it mostly bluegill?
Speaker 4:Yeah, we mostly have like rock bass, bluegill, black crappie. I know you guys your panfish kind of diversify even more, which is awesome because they're such a good little fish.
Speaker 3:Well, we could go on and on. I hate to say it, man, but we're almost probably out of time for today. I think we need to keep talking. I think we need to roll this maybe into another episode, because I could talk about. We're just getting started and I love talking about these different species saltwater, freshwater, big fish, little fish, I mean heck, we talked about great white sharks and bluegills all in the same show. So I think what do you say, man? So I think what do you say man? I say we keep going and maybe pick it up on the next show.
Speaker 4:Let's do it. So thank you so much, everybody, for listening to Untamed Pursuits on the Outdoor Journal Radio Podcast Network. We're going to come back and talk a little bit more of our better favorite species.
Speaker 6:As the world gets louder and louder, the lessons of our natural world become harder and harder to hear, but they are still available to those who know where to listen. I'm Jerry Ouellette and I was honoured to serve as Ontario's Minister of Natural Resources. However, my journey into the woods didn't come from politics. Rather, it came from my time in the bush and a mushroom. In 2015, I was introduced to the birch-hungry fungus known as chaga, a tree conch with centuries of medicinal use by Indigenous peoples all over the globe.
Speaker 6:After nearly a decade of harvest use, testimonials and research, my skepticism has faded to obsession and I now spend my life dedicated to improving the lives of others through natural means. But that's not what the show's about. My pursuit of the strange mushroom and my passion for the outdoors has brought me to the places and around the people that are shaped by our natural world. On Outdoor Journal Radio's, under the Canopy podcast, I'm going to take you along with me to see the places, meet the people. That will help you find your outdoor passion and help you live a life close to nature. And under the canopy. Find Under the Canopy now on Spotify, apple Podcasts or wherever else you get your podcasts.
Speaker 7:How did a small town sheet metal mechanic come to build one of Canada's most iconic fishing lodges? I'm your host, steve Nitzwicky, and you'll find out about that and a whole lot more on the Outdoor Journal Radio Network's newest podcast, diaries of a Lodge Owner. But this podcast will be more than that. Every week on Diaries of a Lodge Owner, I'm going to introduce you to a ton of great people, share their stories of our trials, tribulations and inspirations, learn and have plenty of laughs along the way. Meanwhile we're sitting there bobbing along trying to figure out how to catch a bass and we both decided one day we were going to be on television doing a fishing show.
Speaker 5:My hands get sore a little bit when I'm reeling in all those bass in the summertime, but that's might be for more fishing than it was punching you so confidently.
Speaker 7:you said hey, pat have you ever eaten a drum? Bu Find Diaries of a Lodge Owner now on Spotify, apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.