Untamed Pursuits

Episode 22: Hooked on Florida's Fishing Culture with Captain Ben Chancey

• Outdoor Journal Radio Podcast Network • Episode 22

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Step into the exhilarating world of Southwest Florida fishing with our special guest, Ben Chancey, as he brings his adventurous spirit and wealth of knowledge straight to your ears. Known for his thrilling fishing exploits on "Chew on This TV," Ben invites us on a narrative journey from the vibrant snook waters of Sarasota to the legendary tarpon hotspots of Boca Grande. Whether you're curious about the evolution of fishing media or eager to learn the secrets behind battling big game fish like Goliath grouper, this episode promises a treasure trove of insights and stories that capture the very essence of Florida's rich fishing culture.

Ever wondered what it's like to fish under the starlit skies of Southwest Florida? We unravel the mysteries of night fishing from Sarasota to Charlotte Harbor, where technology meets tradition, and personal anecdotes bring the vibrant, unpredictable world of nocturnal angling to life. Discover how the nuanced hues of snook tell a tale of their habitat, or how urban fishing in Cape Coral's canals offers a surprising encounter with giant tarpon. From the intricacies of bait dynamics to the ecological balance of estuaries, this episode offers a profound look into the complexities and joys of Southwest Florida's dynamic fishery.

Speaker 1:

How did a small-town sheet metal mechanic come to build one of Canada's most iconic fishing lodges? I'm your host, steve Nitzwicky, and you'll find out about that and a whole lot more on the Outdoor Journal Radio Network's newest podcast, diaries of a Lodge Owner. But this podcast will be more than that. Every week on Diaries of a Lodge Owner, I'm going to introduce you to a ton of great people, share their stories of our trials, tribulations and inspirations, learn and have plenty of laughs along the way. Meanwhile, we're sitting there bobbing along trying to figure out how to catch a bass, and we both decided one day we were going to be on television doing a fishing show.

Speaker 3:

My hands get sore a little bit when I'm reeling in all those bass in the summertime, but that's might be for more fishing than it was punching.

Speaker 2:

You so confidently?

Speaker 1:

you said hey, pat, have you ever eaten a trout? Find Diaries of a Lodge Owner now on Spotify, apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast so so Welcome back to the Untamed Pursuits podcast on the Outdoor Journal Radio Podcast Network.

Speaker 4:

I'm Jamie Pistilli here with my trusty as always sidekick, mr Ryder Knowlton, down in the Carolinas. What's going on?

Speaker 2:

Hey Jamie, how's it going? Enjoying the now that we're in the middle of fall, enjoying this very much.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, me too, man. It's fishing season is winding down here. It this very much. Yeah, me too, man. It's uh fishing season is winding down here. It's starting to get some frost and it's getting cold. Uh, the fish are fat and it's time to start planning for, uh our winter getaways, like we always do. So, you know, uh, I was thinking about who we can bring on, and I know my family heads down to florida quite often. Um, I couldn't think of a better guest to bring on for for the snowbirds that are listening and people you know down in the us that want to go a little bit warmer. Um, it's funny when you think of fishing in florida. A lot of people go during uh spring break time, which is fine, but I think some of the better fishing is is actually when it gets warmer, and that's when all the snowbirds get out of there. So I think, if you're a snowbird, another thing too, uh, is to kind of extend your trip. If you're thinking of coming back in april, that might be the perfect time to stay.

Speaker 4:

But, uh, I'll get our our guests to talk about that, uh, without further ado he's been on espn, abc, fox news usa today and now the world famous untamed pursuits podcastursuits podcast. I'd like to welcome Ben Chancey Chew on this. What's going on, Ben? How's it going? Fellas, Great to be here. Oh man, it's great to have you. So you just finished up a wonderful season. I've been watching your photos online and what's going on down there?

Speaker 6:

Well, to go to what you were talking about, how people come here a lot of times during winter and spring and stuff like that I try to always switch their mindset up to saying, yes, the fishing isn't what it is. In the summertime and the late spring, however, you get to fish, because you know up north you don't get to fish, you've got bad weather, you've got all kind of stuff. So I always try to make everybody say, hey, just take the good, you know, because the fact that we get to get out there and whatever we get to catch whenever it's not prime is better than not fishing at all.

Speaker 2:

Hey, Ben, where are you? Tell us where exactly your fishery is. You know, what do you consider your fishery? What's your range? Tell us a little bit about what your home base is.

Speaker 6:

I'm in Southwest Florida. I'm actually out of Cape Coral, Florida, and we're the second largest city in the state of Florida land-wise, and I think we've got 400 miles worth of canals, so we've got more canals than Italy does, which is kind of crazy. You wouldn't think of that, but we do, and I fish anywhere from Sanibel to Pine Island to Captiva in that area during most of the year and then whenever the tarpon come in that type of stuff we do trips out of Boca Grande and then in the summertime, usually starting in June, we head over to Stewart Florida and fish the giant Goliath grouper migration, Jamie, we're going to have so many fun things to talk about.

Speaker 2:

What I'm hearing is Florida fishing sharks, tarpon, Goliath grouper this is like a heaven of fun, cool stuff to talk about.

Speaker 4:

I love fishing for big fish Like I'm all about the toothy fish up here in Canada and I guess you know if Ben was my spirit brother he would be. He's fishing for all the biggest animals that are down there and some of his videos chewonthistv is his website some insane things. So you've done some like sitting in a dinghy catching sharks and, like you like pushing the envelope a little bit, which is awesome. You know, like there's so many great fish down there and so many cool ways to catch them.

Speaker 6:

Yeah, what I noticed my first fishing show was on Fox Sports in 2004. And it went really well and a lot of the videos we put out, you know, back then it was before there was video on demand. It was before you could even put videos on YouTube. Youtube didn't even exist in 2004. So people would call the network and they would say, hey, could you replay that episode of that Chew on this show? And they would literally call the network and request it and the network would say, oh, it doesn't work like that. Blah, blah, blah. And at the time I think we got like three airings for the week and then that was it. You didn't get to see it again. So you either saw it while it was on TV or you didn't get to know anything about it. And that was kind of my start with that.

Speaker 2:

Ben, when you first started those videos, were you always into those? You know just I hate to say just cool. You know awesome, exciting fish, but you know, when you think about the fish that involve your world, were you always into them? Or did you kind of have some experiences and get a couple of cool videos and say, oh man, this could be a cool niche, Like what got you? What got you focused on those species?

Speaker 6:

Well, that's a great question. What got you focused on those species? Well, that's a great question. Where it originally came in my mind a long time ago, I would see these old sepia photos with these guys that had these fish that were 250, 350, 500 pounds and I'm like how come I don't see that now? Because that type of fishery pretty much disappeared and then they shut it down in, I think 1990, 1991, one of those years, and I had never seen a big Goliath grouper. So growing up my dad had brought one home in like 87, 88. And at that time I was a kid and that was the coolest, biggest fish I'd ever seen.

Speaker 6:

So there was a lot of competition in fishing shows. Everybody was doing snook shows and red fish shows and trout shows and all that stuff, which was fine and dandy, but that was their thing. Mine was is. I figured I would get the most eyeballs and I could get your grandma or your grandpa to watch uh, chew on this because. Or or a little kid that might not be interested in fishing, because they get to see some giant fish animal that they had never seen. So I started targeting that and it took me probably a year to figure out what to do. You know, and a lot of the stuff you see today all starts from those beginnings, from just about everybody that does it.

Speaker 2:

Hey, jamie, you know, before we could almost do a show on Goliath Group. I don't know that there's a more exciting fish there. Surely isn't a fish of more lore and legend. Maybe some of the sharks, but with the exception of maybe a handful of the sharks I can't think of a fish that's got more lore and legend. Maybe some bluefin tuna stories more lore and legend than a Goliath grouper.

Speaker 2:

But before we dive into that, jamie, if that's okay with you, I'd love to just talk here a little bit more about some of these other fisheries that Ben's involved in. Maybe we kind of work our way around the state. If you will, ben, tell us a little about you know you talk about Southwest Florida. When you think about Southwest Florida you think about Boca Grande. Jamie and I both of us are big snook fans and so I can't imagine a better place anywhere to be a snook fisherman than Southwest Florida. Tell us about that fishery. You know, just kind of your seasons down there, what people can expect. You know taking fishing trips into that part of you know, maybe, I could almost say maybe a lesser known part of Florida, you know, not as high profile as the Keys, maybe not as high profile as some of the Atlantic Coast destinations, but in my mind maybe the greatest part of Florida for fishing.

Speaker 6:

Well, here's what's incredible about Southwest Florida Pine Island Sound, charlotte Harbor, bull Bay and all of that area. I think it's the state's largest estuary, so there's mangroves, there's plenty of places and grass flats everywhere. I think we have the most grass flats of anywhere in the state of Florida. So what happens is we've got such a great nursery for juvenile fish where they get an opportunity to grow up. So, whether it's them hiding inside of mangroves or growing up in grass flats and things like that, they really have an opportunity to thrive because they've got a great food source and they've got areas where they can hide.

Speaker 6:

And that's what's made our area really nice, because it hasn't become overpopulated and overbuilt. You know, a lot of our outer islands are protected. A lot of our islands in the sounds are protected, and that gives these fish a chance to grow. And you know, other than the pressure that we put on them personally as fishermen and, unfortunately, red tide, which actually we're dealing with that right now, if we didn't have, probably, if we didn't have too much pressure with red tide and it was just fishing pressure from people, we'd be okay, but the red tide gets us in the and that's, you know, water quality issues and stuff that just happens post hurricane, which isn't great.

Speaker 2:

You know it's funny. We um, uh, just recently I was working with a group and we were talking about destinations for baby tarpon. You know, we know you guys have the Giants and Boca Grande and we'll talk about that in a second. But we're talking specifically about small to midsize tarpon. And of course, you know you can get into some of the backwaters and the Keys. Those are always closely kept secrets with those Keys guides.

Speaker 2:

But what came out of this was Charlotte Harbor and we went down and focused on ahead. A hell of a trip. Holy smokes. And yes, you know there are some of those, the red tide dynamics in Florida and that's you know. That's something you manage. But tell us about more about the estuary, because you hit it, you know. You talk about the seagrass, you talk about the miles of coastline. In other words, you were describing a nursery almost Exactly. That's exactly what it is. Yeah, tell us a little bit more about that, because that does create a diversity of fishing you don't get in other parts, you know, of the Florida coast or around the Caribbean.

Speaker 6:

Yes, there's areas in southwest Florida where you can still ride through and it's much like a jungle, where you can go back into creeks. You can go back into areas where you find fish and you're like there's nobody back here, there's no people here, there's nobody developed anything or anything like that. So you get to see kind of originally, what that area looked like way back, probably 100 years ago, which is kind of nice to see it not be disturbed, even though things have happened. These areas have been really preserved, which is nice to see.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and then what's crazy is, you know, if you keep going south you get I mean, what is it Chukaluski? In south. I mean you get into some of the most remote rivers. You know, I've been lucky enough to fish a number of those rivers as you go way down down into Lossman's and some of those areas that are. There's so many so remote and kind of the. You know the killing, Mr Watson. You know area, if you will of. You know, in the old days of people trying to avoid the law and just you know hiding. You know rivers full of sawfish. You know those kinds of incredible places. Do you get down into that area as well? Do you personally, or is kind of your world of involvement take you that far down into the remote parts of the west coast of Florida?

Speaker 6:

Well, it's kind of funny because my grandfather and my dad but I mainly went with my grandfather yeah, we went down to Fish Shark River, lawless Smith River and all that type of stuff and I learned about that area because they were fishing it back in the I don't know 60s probably, and they would tell me how they fished it and the things that they did, and they would tell me the calamities where their steering boat cable would break 30 miles out in the middle of the jungle and they'd have to break up a PVC pipe and steer the boat with a PVC pipe.

Speaker 6:

All kinds of crazy stuff, right. So those things always had me, those stories, always had me interested to be able to go do that and I was fortunate enough to go fish down there with them, learn a little bit about the area. And then when I first started my show back in 03, 04, I went down there and I want to say it was either my second or third show. I fished out of there and that particular day we caught a bunch of sharks at the mouth of one of the rivers and then after that we learned about some Goliath grouper fishing underneath the mangroves there, which was at that time I'd never seen anything like that, and we learned about how to fish the snook underneath the corners and the cuts and the edges, and it was. It's a it's a thing where you got a big area, but if you learn what to focus on, you can be very good.

Speaker 2:

Jamie, I don't want to. I, you know, I want to take advantage of having been here because you and I are such snoop nerds, you know. Let's, let's, I gotta, I gotta, take a few questions here on that, let's, you know, ben, a couple of questions for you In your mind, and I would. Maybe I'm expanding the area to include Venice, sarasota, some of those areas In your mind. Is there a better snook fishery in the US than that Sarasota down to Charlotte Harbor stretch? That'd be my first question.

Speaker 2:

And then number two tell us about Captiva and Sanibel, cause I, you know, I've walked those beaches with a fly rod, I've done that site casting and I know what it's like to cast a clear, colored snook that are so differently colored than a hundred miles to the South where you cast this snook in the shark river, lost men's, and they're this dark green and you cast that them in the in the lapping waves of Captiva and they're almost translucent. Tell us about, you know, in your mind, where does that area rank in the world of snook fishing? And just tell us about your thoughts on the snook fishery in that area.

Speaker 6:

So in that area I'll tell you how I grew up. I grew up with my dad taking me to Cuyacosa Island, which is essentially Captiva Pass, and we would camp on there for Labor Day weekend, memorial Day weekend, full noon, full noon weekends and stuff like that, and we would actually do all of our fishing during the day for pinfish and for grunts and stuff like that, because at night we would wade around the peaks of in the pass. So we would wade in the water at night in the pass because we knew certain areas where when we would throw our bait, if it drifted into it, that's where the snook typically sat and that's where, if we were going to go fish that area, we knew we had to be there at a certain time, a certain tide to be able to do well. And if we did that we had very successful days. It was a little dangerous, you know, some days there's bull sharks swimming right by you, you're in the middle of the night and a full moon, so it was kind of crazy. And then you've got the dinoflagellates that are in the water. So when you move the water around it sparkles and lights up and stuff. It looks like you're on Avatar and so you would be fishing in your wading and you know we don't have to wear waders or anything like that. It's nice, warm water and what would happen was is you would see this giant dinoflagellate stuff. Just zoom by you real fast. You're like well, that wasn't me, so you're open, you don't get a bit of air, people disappear, all that type of stuff. And we never did did.

Speaker 6:

But one time something crazy did happen. We were all fishing, we were in the water, my whole family, my dad, my uncle brother and my uncle started screaming. It's at night time. He started screaming, he falls down in the water and I'm like, oh, it's sharp, got my uncle, he's dying. And so he started screaming. He's splashing all in the water. I'm backing up out of the water, I'm like this isn't good. And as I'm backing up, he stands back up and he runs out of the water and I'm like, ok, he's not dead. And whenever he gets out of the water he's got like this two pound blue crab hanging off of his calf. He starts off bombing and screaming. He takes the, takes into his rod and starts smashing the crab and the crab fell off and he killed the crab, but the claw was still hanging on his leg.

Speaker 2:

The question is did he take that claw home and cook it up? No, he was pissed off, he was more hanging on.

Speaker 4:

So, ben, in terms of fishing in the winter? So if we get some, you know people that want to escape from drilling holes up here and escape the crazy snow uh, what fishing opportunities are there in southwest florida in the winter?

Speaker 6:

so I have some friends and, as I would refer people to these friends, they specifically fish very skinny water boats and a lot of these boats they migrated over here from Texas. You know they saw what Texas did because they've got a lot of shallow water and what we have is we've got all these shallow grass flats and in the wintertime when the water pushes out, there's really no water unless you get to these holes that are in the middle of these grass flats. So what will happen is all the holes that are in the middle of these grass flags. So what will happen is is all the fish that are in the area are forced to get into these little holes. But if you don't have a boat that can't get you there, you don't ever get the fish to the holes and you don't ever find them. So these guys have made a living being able to use their skinny water boats, get to these holes. A lot of times they'll power pole or talon off of the holes.

Speaker 2:

A lot of times they'll power pole or talon off of the holes and then you've just got essentially a bathtub in the middle of a house that's got water in it and all the fish are in there. What kind of fish are we talking about, Ben All?

Speaker 6:

of our grass flatfish. You'll have trout in there. You'll have snook in there. You'll have flounder in there no-transcript.

Speaker 4:

Oh, that's like, that's amazing.

Speaker 6:

Yeah, they've been doing it for years. It's their style. I did a little bit of it, but I'd sold that particular type of boat right before the hurricane, I think, ian and. But they still do it and they do really well in the wintertime. Those guys are phenomenal because they have their style of boats and they've learned that style of fishing with that style of boat in the winter.

Speaker 2:

Well, what's amazing is how quickly those fisheries recover from the hurricanes. You know the hurricanes come through. It's part of life in Florida and how many times have you seen you know a storm come in and you know wreak havoc on an area and then, before you know it, the fisheries right back. Those animals come back. It's incredible how quickly, not only how resilient, but how quickly they are right back in action.

Speaker 6:

Yes, they're actually phenomenal and I think a lot of times what happens is pressure is taken off of them People, you know they're trying to take care of their houses and everything else and nobody's fishing them, so they get to go back what's natural for them. Nobody pushes them off their spots and all that type of stuff. So there's always a window after a storm where it's pretty incredible.

Speaker 7:

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Speaker 7:

After nearly a decade of harvest, use, testimonials and research, my skepticism has faded to obsession and I now spend my life dedicated to improving the lives of others through natural means. But that's not what the show is about. My pursuit of the strange mushroom and my passion for the outdoors has brought me to the places and around the people that are shaped by our natural world. On Outdoor Journal Radio's Under the Canopy podcast, I'm going to take you along with me to see the places, meet the people that will help you find your outdoor passion and help you live a life close to nature and under the canopy. Find Under the Canopy now on Spotify, apple Podcasts or wherever else you get your podcasts.

Speaker 2:

Hi everybody. I'm Angelo Viola and I'm Pete Bowman.

Speaker 4:

Now you might know us as the hosts of Canada's Favorite Fishing Show, but now we're hosting a podcast, that's right Every Thursday, ang, and I will be right here in your ears bringing you a brand new episode of Outdoor Journal Radio Hmm.

Speaker 1:

Now, what are we going to talk about for two hours every week?

Speaker 4:

Well, you know there's going to be a lot of fishing.

Speaker 3:

I knew exactly where those fish were going to be and how to catch them, and they were easy to catch.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, but it's not just a fishing show. We're going to be talking to people from all facets of the outdoors, from athletes.

Speaker 5:

All the other guys would go golfing.

Speaker 1:

Me and Garton Turk and all the Russians would go fishing.

Speaker 4:

To scientists.

Speaker 3:

But now that we're reforesting and laying things free. It's the perfect transmission environment for line fishing To chefs. If any game isn't cooked properly, marinated, you will taste it.

Speaker 8:

And whoever else will pick up the phone.

Speaker 2:

Wherever you are. Outdoor Journal Radio seeks to answer the questions and tell the stories of all those who enjoy being outside.

Speaker 4:

Find us on Spotify, apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 2:

Hey, ben, tell us about the tarpon fishery in Southwest Florida and I guess the context of this is maybe talk about it in context of the Keys, which a lot of people who are thinking about travel, adventure travel, fishing trips. Obviously you think about the Keys. People that are tarp and aficionados are thinking about the elbow of Florida. They know the history of Homosassa, they remember the Project X or Destination X. You know videos from way back when and all the big fish that get up around the kind of the elbow of Florida and cut across through Apalachicola. You know and they follow the migration. If you will Tell us about in your mind, where Southwest Florida, and then, of course, maybe the most famous tarpon place of all, boca Grande, how all that fits into the grand scheme of the tarpon world.

Speaker 6:

Well, so if I start with Boca Grande, I will say that there's been times where I've had 60 foot thick of tarpon underneath my boat. So when it comes to you know saying where I think the most fish are and all that type of stuff although I haven't fished some of those other areas before, it's hard for me to imagine you could go somewhere where you would have 60 feet thick of tarpon underneath you. I mean, it's just absolutely phenomenal with how many fish get in there, and they're usually in there for somewhere between two and three months. So there's a window and that's how they just, like you said, it's a migration they come in. It's really awesome.

Speaker 6:

Now, if we move off of that, we go to different areas, like in Cape Coral, there's a couple of canals where, year round, I have fish in them and they're tarpon. And I will say that I've probably had my largest tarpon that I've ever hooked and fought was in canals, which is kind of crazy. You know, you think you've got Boca Grande, you've got all this and all that, but I've, I've had some tarpon that I fought in the canals. That were two and a half hour plus battles, holy cow, it's just absolute crazy and they were well over probably 230, 250 pounds, just absolute giant fish.

Speaker 6:

And the water's deep. Where I fish it gets up to like 26 foot. So you're fighting these fish amongst docks and all kind of other stuff and you have to do. Sometimes I have to jump in the water, swim through the docks and get back in the boat so I don't lose the fish. So there's all kind of crazy stuff that goes on in those situations, in those canals which, whenever I first started fishing, I like to say you know, I'm in people's backyards, or I used to call it urban fishing and stuff like that, and I would have never thought these giant fish would have been in my backyard, but they are, which makes them even more incredible, in my opinion. I don't have to go to some remote location to have an opportunity to catch one. I could go out my back door and go to my seawall and there they were Well, and it's big fish, like you know.

Speaker 2:

you said everybody, you know. You think about those canals with smaller fish baby tarpon, you know, but you're talking about giant. You know, in those areas, if you think about let's talk about kind of that Boca Grande, charlotte Harbor area, and you mentioned a certain times of the year, you know what are the times of the year when they're in and then I guess a follow-up to that is in your mind what percentage of those fish are migrating fish versus resident? Because you did you mentioned in some of the canals you do have resident fish but looking at the broader fishery, you know what percentage are resident and in your mind and what times of the year are the key times.

Speaker 6:

Well, I know I call them resident. It's not necessarily the resident fish, it's that those are the areas where I know there will be tarpon always. But what I think I've learned over this 20 plus year career is that I think these fish move into those areas and then new fish move. Those fish move out and new fish move in. So I don't think it's the same fish all the time when it comes to tarpon. Now, if you ask me about goliath grouper, more so, it's the same fish. However, they do move out and leave too. So I've caught the same fish that I've tagged before, um, in the same area. However, they do move out and leave too. So I've caught the same fish that I've tagged before in the same area, but usually that's within a couple that's usually within a couple of month period. You know it's not usually, hey, I caught this fish and then I caught it again six months later. You know, usually it's a couple of months and so I know that fish kind of hasn't left yet.

Speaker 6:

But in other situations I feel like, because I, with my side imaging, on my fish finder, I can see how many fish are in there. So some of the canals where I go into them. I see how many fish are in there. You know, in different times I see there's a lot more than others. So it's not like I'm guessing, you know, because with tarpon a lot of times you see them rolling and you're like, oh, there's tarpon in here. But when you go with your fish, with your side imaging, you get a chance to see really how many fish are in there and fish it a different way.

Speaker 6:

So now if you go to Boca Grande and Charlotte Harbor, I know I got a good friend, captain Danny Latham. He does a lot of lure fishing for tarpon, this time at September, through until it starts we start having cold fronts. So he does a lot of tarpon fishing up in the harbor. He's got some places and he does it all on lures, on swim baits and stuff like that and he has some incredible days. I've never learned that style of fishing. It's not that he wouldn't take me out there to do it or anything like that. I just know that him and some of his buddies have been really successful at throwing lures to tarpon this time of year, which is kind of unheard of, because catching tarpon on lures isn't the easiest thing.

Speaker 2:

No, and is it? Would you, would you relate that to fly fishing for them as well? I mean is in theory, does it? Is it a different dynamic, you know, with fly fishing in that area?

Speaker 6:

Yeah, it's a much different dynamic with fly fishing in that area. The reason why I say that when you guys were talking about fishing Captiva and all that stuff, in those beaches where you're seeing those fish and you're watching them and you can plant your fly because you see them moving and all that type of stuff when you're in darker water you can fly fish, but you don't see the fish till after it rolls, so then you're just throwing after on top of it after it's probably already gone. So it's a little bit tougher, I think. For fly fishermen Is it possible? Yeah, but do I think for fly fishermen Is it possible? Yeah, but do I think? You'll spend a lot of time trying to make it happen like that? Yeah, hey.

Speaker 2:

Jamie, you and I've talked a lot about the night fishing for for Snook, right there, right where we're talking about Charlotte Harbor, sarasota. Did Jamie, when you went down there were you? Is that the area that you were casting on those docks for Snook? I'm trying to remember.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, we have a friend I won't even mention the name of the island, I know ben. I've sent him there to go catch some fish, but the? Uh, we kind of go out during the day, I'll get the. You know, especially when the kids were younger, we go up there for a couple weeks every year. I get them to catch the pinfish and the grunts and then we keep them alive and then as soon as the lights go down and it's an island with a lot of older people, so they shut her down at nine and then all these little lights show up and I kind of I won't say that I trespass, but I'll just say that I, I go and uh, fish around their dogs without trespassing, if that makes sense. We share, we should. Yeah, yeah, we share, you know.

Speaker 4:

And then, uh, but I've had some of the most amazing times and you know, my kids, you know from a fishing guide, don't fish as much as I wish they would, it's not really their thing. But when we're down in florida they, hey, can we go snook fishing? Because at night you don't know what's going to swim by, whether dolphins or manatees or, like it is some of the, you know, the water just comes alive and you know throwing. Uh, you know, either we've caught them on lures, we've caught them on flies, we've caught them on, you know, if we get live pinfish or like a live ladyfish, there's no way that doesn't get smacked when it hits the water right. So it's like some days it's harder to catch the bait. It takes longer per bait than it does to actually catch the snook. So, yeah, so the kids get really excited. We go out or like okay, we got five live baits here, we're going to catch five fish or at least hook five fish.

Speaker 6:

That's usually what happens? Well, that's how I know how much experience you have with it and how much you've done it. Anybody that's put real time into snook fishing. You spend your time catching what you know that they're going to eat and that's where you put all your effort in. And sometimes you don't get as many as you want, but whatever you got, that's what you go fish, and a lot of times, those days when you don't get as many bait as you want, they just absolutely destroy you and, before you know it, all the bait that you did catch, which wasn't that much is all gone.

Speaker 4:

I've done that too. The island we fish has got golf carts there's no cars has got golf carts, there's no cars. And I've had many nights where I run out of bait and I'm in the golf cart driving the other end of the island desperately trying to catch some pinfish or anything that remotely resembles bait. Because if you go to the part where there is no bait and you drop a live pinfish beside a snook, oh yeah, oh my, it's like instant like I've had you know, in two seconds you're hooked up right like oh, that was tough well, here's something that that your listeners don't know that's never did it, and all that type of stuff.

Speaker 6:

And the majority of the people, that's fish all across the world. They understand their style of fishing and what their fish does and and all that type of stuff. But what they don't understand is the athleticism that snook have, and not only do they have athleticism. When you're fishing a snook by any structure, you have to have a high skill level to land those fish, especially any of them with size, because they so aggressively hit your lure or your bait and they so aggressively run for the places that cause you problems and a lot of people, no matter where they fish. I don't care if you're a big bluefin tuna fisherman or a muskie fisherman. They're not very good in the beginning.

Speaker 4:

No, absolutely. Exactly right, sometimes you have a millisecond or a second to turn those fish away from the pilings or the docks, or else your feelings are really hurt really quickly.

Speaker 4:

Yep, and you could be fishing with 80, 100 test leader, 50, 80 pound test braided line and you get snapped off in less than a second uh, there's such a remarkable fish and you guys are truly blessed to have them and I think you know most canadians that are going down just think you know sharks and this and that, but there's so many great sport fish down there that'll just blow people's mind well, on that coast, you coast, you know, think about that coast you're talking.

Speaker 2:

You know about all the way down to Shark River, lossmans. You know, for those listeners that are, you know maybe they're trying to get their head around the geography, ben, and the scale of the fishery that you're talking about. You know, you mentioned 400 miles. You know and and you know literally you're talking about, if you just picture, you know, almost Sarasota South, right, all the way down through that Southwest corner of Florida, before you even get to the Tamiami trail and then really start getting into. What you know is is the um, the, the wilderness still to this day. You know wilderness of Southwest Florida, on the northern reaches of the Everglades. What you know, tell us.

Speaker 2:

You know I'm thinking about the snook fishing down along, you know, way down as you're approaching. You know really getting into, kind of the edge of the Everglades if you will, you know, and that casting you're hitting those banks, you know those mangrove banks. Hitting those banks, hitting those banks, as Jamie said, you hook up trying to keep those fish off those mangrove roots. Tell us about the difference If we have listeners that are that are into snook fishing. Tell us about the difference of an experience, if you will, in some of those shark river trips, lossman's river trips down in the Everglades, maybe from mothership versus, you know, maybe a land-based trip up in charlotte harbor and kind of how they differ from each other well.

Speaker 6:

So when you get down to the everglades and you're doing that stuff, a lot of times you're traveling to places that are 15, 18, 20, 25 miles, and a lot of that's backcountry travel, unless you go on the outside of islands and travel down that way. So it's an adventure. And, um, mothershipping I don't know how many people do that, and here's the reason why I don't know it, because you got to go through so much shallow water and you got to go through so many areas and a mothership typically is going to have more draft. It's going to be difficult for that boat to get. So if you were going to mothership you'd have to be out off of the islands, in the deeper water in the in the Gulf, and that works as long as it's not rough.

Speaker 6:

You know, uh, when we did it we just had kind of a fast boat and we would run where we wanted to go and go fish and, uh, it still took us a bit to get there. But you know we could do it all in one day and stuff like that. And in the everglades a lot of the stuff that we needed to figure out was how to catch the bait that we use in southwest florida, cape Island, all that area. We needed to find out how to fish, how to find that bait for the Everglades, and fortunately, with a little bit of effort, we were able to find out places where those bait held and once we did that we were able to have extremely good baits when you're going out?

Speaker 2:

let's say you've got a trip going out in the Charlotte Harbor area. Are you guys, when you talk about bait, are you going out with customers in the morning and throwing cast nets? Are you getting frozen bait ahead of time? Tell us about how that works in a typical day on the water.

Speaker 6:

So usually we all like to have live bait and a lot of times for tarpon we'll fish with thread. Fins is one of our favorite and that's always a process. You've got to figure out how to get it favorite, and that's always a process. You got to figure out how to get it. Sometimes you have to sabikium, sometimes you have to throw the cast net, sometimes you don't get them at all and you bring crabs with you. Sometimes you bring crabs first because you think that crabs is what they're going to eat and other times they only eat dead mullet on the bottom. So you go to buy the fish house first and you pick up mullet. So you've got dead, fresh mullet to throw out there and leave cut bait on the bottom.

Speaker 6:

Because sometimes tarpon we like to say tarpon like to show off, we like to say they like to dance in front of you but not give you the time of day. So they like to say hey, I'm over here, I'm over here, look at me, look at me. And they don't always participate with you A little bit like dating probably. So they do that quite often and sometimes if you don't have one particular bait over another, you just don't they don't bite it.

Speaker 2:

How have you seen? Has the bait dynamics? Let's talk Boca Grande now, specifically Boca Grande. Have you seen bait dynamics change in Boca Grande over the years? And you talk about a place where there's old black and white photos. You know the great history, of course. In your perspective, has that fishery changed over the years? Has the bait dynamics changed over the years?

Speaker 6:

It's always changing, but it doesn't so in the meaning of bait. Usually in the summertime, tarpon season, that type of stuff. Usually if you ride around in the harbor enough, you can find big schools of threadfin. You might have to work at it sometimes. Sometimes it's not as easy as it is others, because they're not showing themselves over the surface. It might be a little rough, whatever. But usually there's somewhere where we can find bait. We just have to put a little effort into it. So that's one of the things that I think helps for putting the tarpon in there. But also we have crab flushes so we have the little calico crabs that come out. So on the outgoing tides you have to catch those and things like that. Sometimes they're not as thick as they normally are based off of rain. If we have a lot of rain they push out of their estuaries and you get a lot more. But when there's not any rain, which is usually when it's really clear and you see the most tarpon, it's the hardest to get the crabs to fish for the tarpon.

Speaker 2:

It's funny you talk about those flushes, for our listeners, explain what that is. I mean, that's, in essence, you know, that combination, the dynamic of freshwater and saltwater. And how does that all work, you know, with some of these bringing, if you will, the food out into areas where they, you know they get preyed upon.

Speaker 6:

So, with all of our estuaries and stuff and the places that haven't been really developed, there's a bunch of crabs, calico crabs. They live up in the grass, they live up in the mangroves and all that type of stuff, and we have these big things called king tides and has a lot to do with the full moon and stuff like that, and they're bigger tides in the summer. So these tides, if we have rain as well, also makes these crabs all flush out at one time. So they just hop on some city weeds and grass and they'll just float all the way out into the, into the ocean, through the pass, and I think that pass is such a big funnel of food coming through. It's one of the reasons why, you know, these serpent have been here a lot longer than and they're going to be here a lot longer than us after we're not here anymore. So they've been doing this for how many ever years and we just participate for a very short period of time of what they've been doing for a long time.

Speaker 2:

What you know. Well. What's funny is, when you think about tarpon specifically, they're realizing it's a prehistoric I mean literally prehistoric fish. And it's so incredible to think about that that you know, like the sharks and some of these other things, they just they. You know a tarpon today is pretty much the same fish that was around millennials ago. You know when they're a prehistoric fish, what tell us? You know, as you think about what are some of the key issues you know. You talk about South Florida you got to talk about. You know some of the water dynamics and how the storms have affected and what do you see as the most? You know some of the key important things about that fishery. You know somebody who's so immersed in it.

Speaker 6:

You know we have water issues all the time. Sometimes the water issues aren't our fault storm related but sometimes the water issues are because they're dumping Lake Okeechobee and all that water is coming through our rivers and our estuaries and stuff like that. And sometimes they try to make it sound like it's great that they're pushing water down the estuaries or down the rivers and stuff like that. But then I'm like well, this river, the Clusatchit River, was never connected to Lake Okeechobee. Army Corps of Engineers came in and connected it to Lake Okeechobee so naturally that water is not supposed to be flowing from Lake Okeechobee into the Pine Island Sound and all of that.

Speaker 6:

So whenever they start dumping these large amounts of water and the water turns fresh, well I think that's killed a lot of our grass and all that type of stuff. So it's messed up. Some of the estuaries that are up the river that you know get closer to Lake Okeechobee because so much fresh water comes through where the grass just doesn't live and it dies. And you know it's not good when we get a lot of rain and they're dumping us.

Speaker 2:

Sure Well, and those are seasonal things, A lot of that, as you said, you just can't control a lot of the. You know the storms and the weather patterns you can't control. I'm always amazed, as we talked about the resiliency of the wildlife and the fish, and I think you know, as we talk about this, I think for our listeners who are thinking about travel and just thinking about places to go, I can't imagine a greater fishery to go explore and to start diving into there's so many layers to it than Southwest Florida.

Speaker 2:

I mean Jamie oh, it's just incredible. And not to mention not only the fishing, but just experiencing old Florida, you know the whole broad experience of the area, not just the hundreds of miles of coastline, the remoteness of it, the mangrove coast, all those incredible things.

Speaker 4:

So, ben, in terms of people going on vacation, what kind of accommodations? Are people looking at making a trip down in Cape Coral?

Speaker 6:

Well, it used to be a lot easier before all these hurricanes came through. So I can't say, hey, I know this place is open. I know that place is open. People's always went here, people's always went there. You know, we just got hit by two more hurricanes the Captiva flooded. North Captiva flooded, sanibel flooded, fort Myers Beach flooded again. So all those people are in the process of coming back, but I just don't know how well back they are. And they're all great places, it's just they're just having to recover.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, so people are. Our listeners want to get in touch with you. What's the best way to reach you? I know you're you got a million videos on YouTube that they can sit in and get pumped up before their trip. But if somebody wants to get in touch with you and see some of these great fish, it's always easiest to get in touch with me through two on this dot TV, yeah amazing, so Ben.

Speaker 4:

Thank tv. Yeah, amazing so ben. Thank you so much on behalf of rider and I and uh untamed pursuits on the outdoor journal radio podcast network. Thanks so much, and we're gonna get uh another cup of coffee and reload for next week's episode. Cheers.

Speaker 3:

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Speaker 1:

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