Untamed Pursuits

Episode 25: Discovering New Horizons in Outdoor Adventures

• Outdoor Journal Radio Podcast Network • Episode 25

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The latest episode of Untamed Pursuits dives into the excitement and possibilities that 2025 holds for outdoor adventures. With a focus on family, exploring new species, and maximizing trip plans, the hosts inspire listeners to embrace the untamed adventures that nature offers. 

• Discussing family adventures in the outdoor space 
• Emphasizing the importance of balancing sports and outdoor activities 
• Excitement around targeting new species and meaningful experiences 
• Highlighting upcoming conventions and hunting shows 
• Tips for efficient travel planning for outdoor trips 
• Exploring saltwater fishing opportunities and their thrills 
• Encouraging listeners to create their own adventure stories through thoughtful planning and exploration

Speaker 1:

Hi everybody. I'm Angelo Viola and I'm Pete Bowman. Now you might know us as the hosts of Canada's Favorite Fishing Show, but now we're hosting a podcast. That's right.

Speaker 2:

Every Thursday, ang and I will be right here in your ears, bringing you a brand new episode of Outdoor Journal Radio.

Speaker 1:

Now, what are we going to talk about for two hours every week?

Speaker 2:

Well, you know there's going to be a lot of fishing.

Speaker 3:

I knew exactly where those fish were going to be and how to catch them, and they were easy to catch.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, but it's not just a fishing show.

Speaker 3:

We're going to be talking to people from all facets of the outdoors, from athletes, all the other guys would go golfing Me and Garth and Turk and all the Russians would go fishing.

Speaker 4:

To scientists.

Speaker 2:

But now that we're reforesting- and all that it's the perfect transmission environment for life.

Speaker 6:

To chefs If any game isn't cooked properly, marinated, you will taste it.

Speaker 1:

And whoever else will pick up the phone Wherever you are. Outdoor Journal Radio seeks to answer the questions and tell the stories of all those who enjoy being outside.

Speaker 2:

Find us on Spotify, apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. So so it's a new year and here we are again on the Untamed Pursuits podcast. I'm Jamie Pasilli here with Ryder Knowlton on the Outdoor Journal Radio Podcast Network. It's a new year and we are excited to do I don't know resolutions, some kind of fun way to start off the year, but I'm here with my favorite trusty sidekick, ryder. What's going?

Speaker 5:

on. Oh man, let's talk about football for a second. We got, you know, big, big time of the year we're, you know, as a Bills fan I know you're a Vikings guy, I'm a Bills guy and you know I'm excited about the Bills and then for for you know, I, I know you also follow, uh, college football down in the us and of course we're seeing our first experience with this new 12 team playoff system and you know it, it's, uh, it's, I have to admit, man, it's made the college football season pretty exciting this year.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think you know, in between planning, thank goodness we have hockey and football this time of year.

Speaker 5:

Keep us balanced.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, between shoveling trips and kind of planning our next excursion. Sports kind of helps us get through everything.

Speaker 5:

Makes us more rounded. We're not just sitting around Rounded for sure Rounded, we're definitely rounded, it definitely is rounded. You and I can sit around and nerd out over a fish talk 24 hours a day, and it is probably healthy for us to do a little, you know. And of course we you know, our kids on both sides are, you know, involved in sports, and so that gives it a nice balance. And then you and I are both football fans, and so we can talk about that nice balance. And then you and I are both football fans, and so we can talk about that. It's probably healthy for us to talk about things other than fishing, you know, from time to time, yeah, that is for sure, you know so.

Speaker 2:

but uh, I don't know, I this college football thing has got me really excited. I it's a couple extra games, a couple extra. You know, you know we do a lot of family time sitting around watching games together. So if we're not, if in the summer we like to spend time in the boat and then in the winter we're either watching hockey or football.

Speaker 5:

We're the same way and, of course, you know what's interesting is down in the Carolinas. You know we've got a team now in Raleigh which you know the Hurricanes are actually a really great program and fun to watch and fun to watch and, and so we get a little bit, we get like a little taste of hockey, but we definitely um during the holidays, whether it's Thanksgiving or Christmas or, of course, you know, here we are talking about the new year and new year's. You know is is primetime, you know, for, for, for college football and and so it's a great. You know, all of us in my family, my wife and kids we all love sitting around getting some pizza or hot wings and and, just you know, watching a, catching a couple of games in front of the fireplace. So that's it's tough to beat, but, um, but we do have another full year of adventures coming up and uh, 2025, you know uh is lined up to be another good one.

Speaker 5:

Tell me, you know, let's talk about what are. You know, what are some of your priorities coming off of 24? It was a very exciting year, you know. We both of us had some firsts in 24. We had great experiences of traveling to new places, experiencing things way beyond just catching and shooting. We talked about that a lot, you know. You know we really we did a lot of these, our untamed pursuits right To new places and new adventures. And so, like Jamie, as you think about 25, what are some of the before we dive into maybe kind of some of the plans, what are some of the themes or what are some of the things you're going to try to focus on in 25?

Speaker 2:

I always love to, you know, catch new species. I don't. I'm still kind of trying to figure out my year logistically. I just booked up my calendar, too, for my guests for the year, so starting to get some regular clients that are getting back to me already, which is it's good. It's good to know where I'm going to be, but you know winter, know winter gotta do some kind of trip south. So still trying to figure out if that's Costa Rica's always been on the list, maybe Panama, that's another place that I've been dying to go to. Um, yeah, I don't know. And then there's also the US. So, depending on on the budget and what's going on, I I'm not a stranger to get into the car and start driving.

Speaker 2:

I love heading down to Florida and, uh, last year my wife and I had an amazing trip down to LA and did some fishing near San Diego, and I was thinking that was after we finished our last podcast. That was one of my favorite trips too. It was cool to go to LA and catch some new, new fish. We had, uh, we were on a just a drift boat, just a classic drift boat. We met some wonderful folks and caught a whole bunch of new species of fish. So some kind of adventure like that. That is new and exciting and, and you know, new culture, new food, new people and uh, and with that too, it'll be'll be uh, maybe a trip or two up north um in june, and that's it. What about you?

Speaker 5:

I know we're uh planning some shows here and you're uh, the air miles are adding up for you oh man, they're god, they're starting out with a bang, you know, and and um, this time of year, you know we are thinking about conventions. You've got a couple of them. So in the hunting world our two big shows of course are Safari Club and Dallas Safari Club, both of which have moved. Safari Club is now in Nashville. It had been in Vegas forever and that's been a great move. I think most people across the board would tell you that Nashville has just been a fantastic new location for SCI and so those conventions come up kind of in that January February timeframe. Dallas Safari Club is going to be in Atlanta this year and it'll stay in Atlanta, I believe, for a few years until they finish the redevelopment of the big convention center in Dallas, and then of course it'll stay in Atlanta, I believe, for a few years until they finish the redevelopment of the big convention center in Dallas, and then of course it'll move back. So we'll see how that goes in Atlanta.

Speaker 5:

But January, february are kind of in the hunting world anyways, the big convention times where people from all over the world come in, you know, from uh into into those conventions and you have a chance to see old friends and meet new outfitters and, um, what I love is just walking around the halls and getting ideas. You know, as you talked about new species, but getting ideas and new places to go, what are some? You know, what are some new adventures that you haven't done before, places you haven't experienced before. So I would say yeah, man, as I think about 25, I think you know your comment about new species is a really it's such an interesting one because I think we're the same way, man.

Speaker 5:

I think about what I really love to do most and it's whether it's hunting or fishing. New species is a big, you know, that's a real highlight for me. So I think obviously we enjoy doing things with our family, we love trying to get involved and do as much of this as we can with friends and family. But if you really were to just say personally, what are some highlights? You know that you like to focus on, I'm right with you, man. I new species. For me is is such a highlight, such a big deal, and I've got a couple opportunities in 25, hopefully you know that could, they could open some of those doors.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's, it's, uh. I think new species is always a great, uh way to start planning a trip. You kind of figure out a fish or you know something that you want to hunt that you haven't targeted before and start doing research. So we up here too. We got show season coming up. We got all our trade shows. I'll be at the Ottawa show, the Toronto show, the spring fishing show. So last year got to meet a bunch of listeners that were coming through, especially in Toronto, some of the bigger cities, bigger metropolitan areas. So if you're out and about, please come and say hi. I'd love to hear your stories if you're a loyal listener.

Speaker 5:

Well, those shows, as you said, they're great opportunities to see old friends, even friends that might live in remote, hard-to-reach places. They all tend to come in and converge, but you said it right there. But meet new friends, and whether it's folks that might be listening to the show or or maybe, uh, uh, somebody you meet at a table where you're, you know you're comparing notes on a, on a trip that you know, that, um, you know that you're both interested in. But a chance to meet new friends. And when you really think about the show, jamie, untamed Pursuits, and the spark of that, really the spark of it is an excitement about new adventures, right, new traveling to new places, new adventures, heck, yeah, there's gonna be a lot of focus on fishing or hunting or just outdoorsy stuff, doing it with friends and family, but at the end of the day, the spark of it right, the heart of it, of what keeps us so excited about this, is that you know the opportunity to go see and explore new places. You know new adventures, new untamed places, what you know as you think about 25, let me start with this.

Speaker 5:

So, because a lot of these are adventures that have to be planned well in advance, you know you and I are planning trips at least one to two years out. You know some of my hunting stuff. I'm planning things three and four years out, as crazy as that sounds, but you know, as you think about 25, you know, is there, are there new areas you're thinking about? You know maybe it's new parts of Canada. You've always talked about Costa Rica. You know what are some of the, what are some of these new? You know places that you haven't explored yet. You know that you think you might get a shot at maybe doing some of that in 25.

Speaker 2:

It looks like I have a busy guiding season coming up, so you know it's funny as a guide when you do get time off. I usually go fishing. Yeah, for sure, but I do. I don't like hitting the same bodies of water every day.

Speaker 2:

I don't like hitting the same spots every day if I'm on the same body of water. So on days off that I have, I often I'll grab a buddy or a family member and we'll hit you know, a new lake or river or fish spots that I've never fished before, to kind of learn. You know, you might find a spot because now, with technology, certain areas are heavier, are facing more and more pressure, especially fishing in an urban center. So it's nice to get out there and explore and try new things I love. There's nothing more that I enjoy than going to a new spot, either lake or river, and being successful on catching a fish that you've never been there before. It's such a great accomplishment.

Speaker 5:

Well, and you're having to figure it out. I mean, it's like you said, it's. You know, that's. Half of the adventure, of that is reading, in other words, reading and learning new water.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely. And what about you? I know what is booked so far for you this season.

Speaker 5:

Well, one of the things you know, 2024, one of the unfortunate things for me. Anyways, in 24, although both of us you know, gosh, you know we talk about the smoke a couple of years in Canada and some of the weather. Well, gosh, we talk about the smoke a couple of years in Canada and some of the weather. Well, for us in the States, especially in the Southeast, 2024 was a year of storms. It's a lot of hurricanes come through, of course, devastating situations in Western North Carolina, where I'm from North Carolina, and so a lot of focus and thoughts and prayers going out to folks in Western North Carolina with some of those storms. From a planning standpoint, we had a number of things very low on the priority list. Of course, in context, but purely from a fishing standpoint, we had a number of trips get postponed or just from the various storms coming through, and there were several. Several of those storms came in and sat over the Southeast, so we've had some small trips up in Virginia. We've there's two or three trips that got pushed last year that were now. When that happens, you know you've got your, you've made your deposits, you know you've got your group put together, you've got everything booked and and that's one of the great parts about hunting or fishing with outfitters that you know, you know that you've got a relationship with, you know they're trustworthy, is that when that happens, the outfitter is the one calling you, saying, hey, I don't think you should come up, I think the weather is just too risky, and that you know you do that with your clients, you know, and that's the sign of a great guide or a great outfitter, and it's why people go back and they, you know they become repeat customers because they trust you and they know that you're looking out for them. Well, we had a couple situations where I, you know I was hosting, if you will, small groups doing various trips, and we had two or maybe three situations where the outfitters reached out to me and said, hey, ryder, it's just too risky with the weather. You know these storms are, you know you can look at radar and it's pretty easy to tell this thing could make a little turn to the left and we would all be in rough shape. So let's put it off. And that's that. That's the outfitter and their guides all putting off revenue, putting off income, putting off trips that are booked to do what's right and to say, hey, you know what Not going to happen this year, but what do you say, we do it next year. And in those situations, heck, yes, we're going to rebook for next year.

Speaker 5:

And I've got a couple of those coming up, one of which was I'm really excited about. We've talked about some of those of those coming up, one of which was I'm really excited about. You know, we've talked about some of those Northern species that you guys, you know, have such an amazing opportunities for up in Canada, but that we are right at the edge of their habitat, you know, brook trout, rough grouse, muskie, believe it or not, in the Southern parts of the Southern Appalachian muskie. And then one of my absolute favorite is some really legitimate smallmouth fishing. And so, you know, in southwestern Virginia you've got some destination level smallmouth rivers, the James, for example, of course, very famous, the New River, which is, I would rank up there with any of the smallalley River, surely, in the US. So we've got a couple trips that got pushed because of storms last year that we're going to try to redo. Those are trout trips and smallmouth trips, primarily in places like Virginia, tennessee, maybe parts of North Carolina. And then I'll tell you one of the trips that I've been planning for a long time and talking about for at least 10 years. Finally getting a chance to possibly go do it in the hunting world is, as I've gotten older I've, you know, I continue to focus on what are some things that are maybe a little bit more sustainable, and by sustainable I mean trips you can A do with family but B maybe are not as expensive. You know some of these, you know some of these crazy trips I do, I know you know might be one timers, because they just logistically and cost wise, you know, you, just, it's just not sustainable.

Speaker 5:

But one of the one of the one of the types of hunting I've been very interested in is some of the other deer species. Of course, in North America you've got the whitetail. In Canada you guys have got the greatest whitetail in the world. But there's lots of species of deer and as you go you've got several different species of mule deer and whitetail throughout North America, down into the jungles of Central America and the brocket deer, et cetera.

Speaker 5:

Well, as you go into Europe there's a small deer called a roe deer and, like any type of sporting adventure, people that are into it are fanatical about it and roe deer hunters in Europe are fanatical about roe deer. These are tiny little deer. These deer are the size of a large German shepherd and they've got these small, very simple forked antlers. So in other words, a trophy might only be a couple inches bigger than a medium-sized one, but they're a challenging deer and of course you get a chance to see these beautiful properties and see some of the great forests of Europe if you get a chance to go hunt these animals.

Speaker 5:

And so I have an opportunity next summer to go on my first roe deer hunt, and this particular hunt's going to be in Sweden, and so Sweden's an area that we've had a lot of interest in, a lot of obviously great salmon fishing in Norway, great bird hunting throughout Scandinavia and fantastic roe deer hunting specifically in some of the farmlands of southern Sweden. So next August as far as what's booked, what's booked or already you know what's on the calendar anyways hopefully late next summer, we'll have a chance to go and do my first roe deer hunt and bring family, and it'll be something that all of us you know. We'll have a chance to kind of experience some of those areas and hopefully I'll get a shot at a decent little buck.

Speaker 2:

Oh, that's awesome.

Speaker 4:

How did a small town sheet metal mechanic come to build one of Canada's most iconic fishing lodges? I'm your host, Steve Nitzwicky, and you'll find out about that and a whole lot more on the Outdoor Journal Radio Network's newest podcast, Diaries of a Lodge Owner. But this podcast will be more than that. Every week on Diaries of a Lodge Owner, I'm going to introduce you to a ton of great people, share their stories of our trials, tribulations and inspirations, learn and have plenty of laughs along the way.

Speaker 1:

Meanwhile we're sitting there bobbing along trying to figure out how to catch a bass and we both decided one day we were going to be on television doing a fishing show.

Speaker 5:

My hands get sore a little bit when I'm reeling in all those bass in the summertime, but that might be for more fishing than it was punching so confidently.

Speaker 4:

you said, hey, Pat have you ever eaten a drum? Find Diaries of a Lodge Owner now on Spotify, apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

Speaker 7:

As the world gets louder and louder, the lessons of our natural world become harder and harder to hear, but they are still available to those who know where to listen. I'm Jerry Ouellette and I was honoured to serve as Ontario's Minister of Natural Resources. However, my journey into the woods didn't come from politics. Rather, it came from my time in the bush and a mushroom. Rather, it came from my time in the bush and a mushroom. In 2015, I was introduced to the birch-hungry fungus known as chaga, a tree conch with centuries of medicinal use by Indigenous peoples all over the globe.

Speaker 7:

After nearly a decade of harvest use, testimonials and research, my skepticism has faded to obsession and I now spend my life dedicated to improving the lives of others through natural means. But that's not what the show is about. My pursuit of the strange mushroom and my passion for the outdoors has brought me to the places and around the people that are shaped by our natural world. On Outdoor Journal Radio's Under the Canopy podcast, I'm going to take you along with me to see the places and meet the people that will help you find your outdoor passion and help you live a life close to nature and under the canopy. Find Under the Canopy now on Spotify, apple Podcasts or wherever else you get your podcasts.

Speaker 2:

Now, in terms of you know, new Year's, we're always everybody's got resolutions, so I thought it might be cool just to do a little. What is Ryder looking to do in terms of his outdoor life this year? Any resolutions, any things you want to do better, any things you want to get better at?

Speaker 5:

Well, I always you and I were talking about this before we started the show today. You know, both of us are so into family and both of us, you know, really do prioritize. Hey, you know we've got some time. What are we going to do? And if we're going to do something outdoors, how do we make it a family adventure? You know, and we are, you and I are constantly trying to prioritize that.

Speaker 5:

So, right off the bat, I would tell you as I think, as I look at the year and what I do is I print out an annual calendar because I do have a busy schedule and I do a lot. I'm very blessed to be able to do a lot of travel, but there is a lot of logistics that goes into that and what I'm trying to do is think about logistics, planning efficiencies. You know, if I'm going to be somewhere, can I tie that into something else or can I push this off so that we can get a couple of back-to-back things here? You know, and I really try to lay that out, as I print out an annual calendar on one page it's just a kind of a monthly summary page I highlight these things and I start to visualize how I can lay out and block things and make it not only more efficient from a time perspective but also from a cost perspective. I call them twofers. If I can tie two things into one flight, heck yeah, I'm doing that every time. It saves you money and it's one flight instead of two. Or if I can save a flight, that's maybe one less day I miss from work. You know, because I'm always trying to balance this, how do I turn a four-day thing into a two-day or a three-day, right, so I don't have to miss work. It's all those classic balances of family work. You know balance.

Speaker 5:

And so one of the very first things I did and definitely a focus for me in 25, is what are those things we're trying to do with our kids and family? And let's get those locked in right so that we can then, from there you can start planning off some of these other things. And so I definitely think family planning for me, for me always is right up there near the top. And then, purely just from an adventure standpoint, I'm like you, man, it's new places. I'm excited about learning about this crazy little deer of Europe, the roe deer. It's a whole different animal. You can spend years and years just learning about this animal and I'll have a chance to dive into that a little bit. Years is learning about this animal and I'll have a chance to dive into that a little bit and then and then hopefully throughout the course of the year, you know, focusing on what are some opportunities to get some go after and try to get a couple of new species for sure.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, whether it be planned or as a bycatch, as we said, you know like, yeah, absolutely, I'm the same way. You know if, if I'm traveling, I'll always look at hey, can I, is there another day of fishing, I can get out of this. Or hey, is there a sporting event? Is there something that I can maximize my time and really enjoy a new spot?

Speaker 5:

you know, see a new stadium or whatever the case might be, and really enjoy a new spot, you know, see a new stadium or whatever the case might be. Well, on that day back, you know, one of the little tricks I do is if and again, you know you and I talk about how you know how do you, how can you fit these trips into busy schedules there, you know, between gosh, between family and kids and sporting activities and commitments, and let alone work, holy smokes. You know, how in the world can you find time to do any of this stuff, let alone some of these adventures we talk about? And the reality is you can. You know you. Just if you focus on it and prioritize it and really put the energy into it, you can find times to do it. But there's always great tricks on how you can make it more manageable, because every day you can be home, you know, half a day early, it helps, it can help with, you know, personal things you're trying to do, maybe with your family or kids, and, of course, if you can avoid maybe missing that extra day of work, that makes it more doable, that might allow you to do it in the first place.

Speaker 5:

And one of the little tricks I love is on the return day. I'm a huge fan of fly out Thursday after work. You have not missed Thursday's day at work, then Arrive late. It's going to be a late night Thursday. You might have some late driving, but you get into camp Thursday night and then that gives you Friday, saturday, to go fishing, go hunting, go hiking, go climbing, whatever it is you're doing. And then you come back Sunday and at the end of the day, that four day adventure, you can feel like you've been somewhere for a month by immersing yourself for four days. But at the end of the day you've only missed one day of work and if you time it right, you're still getting back on Sunday at a time you know maybe you're not even missing Sunday dinner. But one of the things I love to do is I love to try to push that to a late afternoon flight on Sunday. So you get up super early. You and I are the same way. We'll get up at 4 am, get going. Right, you know you're driving by five.

Speaker 5:

Well, if you give yourself Sunday on your four-day getaway, think of what you can do. Let's say you've been fishing for two days on a river in Colorado. Well then you got to get back to Colorado Springs. You got to get back to Denver, or you got to get to Montreal or Ottawa to catch your flight. Well, you could spend four hours on Sunday driving a new route or seeing a new place, or stopping at a new town or checking out a new restaurant or trying to pick up a couple new bird species.

Speaker 5:

Sunday can become a huge part of that day, tied into just the process of getting to the airport, and suddenly some of your highlights of that trip might be pictures from Sunday. How many times have I come back from a trip, a fishing trip out west, and I've done a certain drive back to Denver or a certain drive back to Colorado Springs, and I'll stop and take pictures and my friends and family are like, holy cow, look at those mountains, man. You must have been out there for a month. And you're like, yeah, that was just from 9am to, you know, to noon on Sunday. But God, you know you can, you know you take, you go for 125 miles through the mountains of Colorado and you just see this amazing stuff and you tie you know you tie it into that trip and anyways, you know that's all.

Speaker 5:

Part of this is not just, not just talking about these adventures and places, but you know how do we, how do we, you know, make it practical, so folks and so our listeners can not just you know can it can go out and do them too, and and and. Sunday logistic return flights that's a great. I love planning those Sundays because it's a way you can really add to a trip. As you always say, jamie, you go for fishing and then you add a day, and that's sometimes the coolest part of the adventure, and so hopefully, a lot of that in 2025.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I have one thing that I do on vacation. I don't sleep a lot, you know I don't sleep a lot, but I'll either book a charter and I do this myself. My business is Rising Sun Charters, and the reason why I came up with that name was because I'd love to be the first one on the water. There's nothing greater than launching in the dark when the sun's just slowly coming up and you don't see anybody for hours, right? So it's the same thing when you're on vacation, if you can get up early, go on a half day or a full day, and you're back by three o'clock. You have so much more time to go and do something else, right, totally. And the other thing is, you know, traveling with my family, I'll wait and I'll fish in the dark, like. I've had many nights where I'm fishing all through the dark and I've caught so many amazing fish when it's just pitch black, right. So I think, maximizing that time and you know, sleep when you get back, there's a. Well, you know it's funny man.

Speaker 5:

It's so funny because you come back from these. They're not vacations. I mean, you come back from these and you're worn out. I mean I will say this Monday sucks when I come back on a Sunday night and I have squeezed every ounce of adventure I can into Sunday and then Monday morning. I've had a buddy of mine that used to say these great words. He would say you know, re-entry sucks and re-entry does suck. Monday back at work is really tough, but it's worth it. You know, if you go hard, you know it's not, it's not a vacation. These are adventures. You know you can go on vacation too, but these are, you know these are vacation days, but they're definitely these are adventures. You're going to come back from these trips and you know you and your, your spouse and your kids are going to be hopefully worn out.

Speaker 5:

Um, I remember one of the trips you know we did. That was so fun and we did a lot of fishing along the way, but it was definitely more of just like a road trip, as we, you know, did that great drive between Banff and Jasper, uh up in Alberta and and uh, fish. You know we would find places to fish. You know we did some some pike fishing around Calgary and and, um, you know, uh, you know, and, and some of those different areas and and, um, uh, but we would get up, as you said, man, every morning we would get up with the kids before sunrise and by 5 am we're on the road and we would be driving those roads around Banff looking for wildlife.

Speaker 5:

And, yeah, it's tough getting the kids going, hell, it's hard getting going yourself. But when you're the only car on the road and you come across a family of black bear or you see a bighorn sheep right on the side of the road, or, if you're lucky, maybe some of the moose or any of the endless things you can see, of course the bear are the highlights and if you're really lucky, maybe a grizzly. But when you see these animals and if you're out early and you're maybe the only car on some of those roads, you know that's what we would do. And so by the time it was breakfast time, or you know you're heading to the Banff at 9 am to spend your day at Banff, but by the time you've done that, you've already been out there, you've already seen a day's worth of wildlife, you know just getting early, get up early.

Speaker 2:

And, as you said, you know, just getting early, get up early. And, as you said, you know being out there, you know, before sunup, yeah, and I think you know guiding wise too. If I ever have a preference when I'm on a trip or or with my guests, I always, you know, if you go out at, you know I get people say, hey, let's go fishing at one o'clock in the afternoon. You know, in August, well, the boat launch is going to be busy. You know people's patience isn't what it is at 6am. Like sure it sucks getting up early, but once you're there, there's nothing greater than having a place to yourself. And, like you said, there's going to be more animals moving around. They're like you get too many people's animals are in the forest. The birds are not doing what they should be doing. So it's get out and enjoy it, wake up.

Speaker 5:

Wake up, that'd be another good t-shirt for us. Untamed pursuits wake up, wake up. I'll tell you one of the trips that we're trying to put together and I think we're 99% of the way there. I'm really excited about it. It's the same species but a new area, and I do a lot of small lake fishing. I love fishing for smallmouth. I love the surface action of the summer. We have a spawn in the spring, kind of March. April is probably your best shot at bigger fish. A lot of that's just heave and streamers all day. In the summertime we get this amazing topwater action down on some of these southern rivers and so hopefully we'll have a chance to do a bunch of that this summer of 25. But we're trying to do. I'm trying to put together a first trip up into Wisconsin.

Speaker 5:

This past year in 24, I did a bunch of grouse hunting up in Minnesota, had an awesome time. Thick grouse woods, my God, it just beat the crap out of you. But if you're lucky enough to get a grouse, you've accomplished something there and you look at that fan of that bird and think about your memories of those dogs, those setters working those birds in the thick, thick, thick Minnesota woods and you know it was just such a great experience. Well, wisconsin is such a classic, classic Smalley destination. I've never done it. I fished with you up in Canada, I've been all over the Southeast but I've never really done a real legitimate, you know, wisconsin, minnesota kind of smallie trip. So hopefully you're going to be doing that as well in 25. And again, same fish, same species, but just a new area. And for me, man, that's like a whole new adventure. I can't wait and all it is. I'm just going to Wisconsin instead of Virginia or Ottawa. But you know, you and I are always getting excited about new places, whole new adventures, even if it's the same species.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's nice to try to figure out the puzzle right, because a certain species, whether it be musky, smallmouth, whatever that species is that species. However, there's always some local things and local the puzzle. You have to figure out a way to decode it a little differently in each place, which is always you know, when you're successful, whether you know you're fishing by yourself or with a guide, it's so I, it's so I get so accomplished by doing that.

Speaker 5:

Well, it is and, and you know it's, it's a satisfaction. You know, it's kind of like tying your own fly. You know just how cool is it to catch a fish on a fly you've tied. You know, and and um, it's still fun to catch a fish. But you know, part of you is there's always part of you that just kind of maybe grins a little the best deer, you know the best, my best whitetail is not my biggest whitetail. My best whitetail is whitetails that I have had to figure out and pattern on land that I had to really figure out myself. You know, there's something to be said for just that accomplishment and it may not be as big as some of the others, but who cares? I know I did it myself and those are the, those are the animals that mean so much, and that's that all gets back to what you're saying. It's just, you know, same fish, yeah, but it's new water and figuring it out and trying to outsmart them on the puzzle right Of of new places and new water.

Speaker 2:

And also it's it's the surroundings that are different, right. So you so like, sometimes I think we get, uh, almost we don't appreciate what we have right, whether it be a fish, the same body of water or the same you know spot, where you know every little rock and every nook and every cranny right. But getting a new spot you really it helps, you appreciate, appreciate actually your go-to spots as well.

Speaker 5:

Now, as you think about 25, tell me about saltwater for a minute, because obviously everybody knows you're a big-time musky, smally guy and then you have these opportunities to go guide in these beautiful places up north and the whole world of brook trout and Atlantic salmon and all these incredible things. But I also know that you've done a lot of. You've done a surprising amount of saltwater fly fishing. I know you're passionate about it. I know you love it. I know you love exploring Florida. I know you talk about Central America. Are there any opportunities for some of that in 25 for you?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, for sure there's a potential April trip down to Florida. I've never caught a permit on the fly, so that's one of those species that have been haunting me really bad, you and many people it's like me with musky.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and I haven't had an opportunity to go after permit too much, but I think the last trip was boy, like 12 years ago, and I can still remember the exact look of that fish tailing and how my fly swooped him and that was the only fish I saw that day and I went. Well, I'm happy I saw one, but, boy, would I love to have one more shot at that fish.

Speaker 5:

Shot at that fish. Yes, It'll haunt you forever.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and they're a special fish too. You know, we're truly blessed to be able to travel and target some of these new species and old familiar ones too. So I think, like you said, saltwater wise, maybe hopefully a trip for Atlantic's it's not saltwater but fly fishing trip in the late fall and then maybe somewhere in March or April. I will obviously update everybody and I'll be picking your brain too.

Speaker 5:

Yeah, it's funny, you know a lot of these the fly fishing world, just the fishing world in general. Of course, the sporting world every year gets more sophisticated and tuned into new places. You know there's all these outfitters and guides and outfitters and groups. Of course, with access to the internet and just the ability to share information now is so much more than it used to be that you know. You get real-time knowledge now of some of these new places. And what's so fascinating is when you take a species let's talk about the permit you take a species that people have been fishing for for decades and they've appreciated how impossibly challenging and wonderfully challenging permit are for decades. But every year people are learning about new places and they're learning more about the fish you get into the saltwater world, especially with some of these species that are such great game fish for fly fishermen but aren't necessarily commercial fish, luckily or not commercial fish. You know they're. Just you don't have some of the research and groups are now learning about that they're learning about. You know there's conservation groups learning about tarpon Bonefish and Tarpon Trust is such a great organization in Florida, so involved, doing so much good. That's one of the groups that I support through sales of the book, is Bonefish and Tarpon Trust and one of the things they do is they learn about what are these fish doing, where are they going, whether it's migrating or spawning or kind of how does it work? And what's really cool, every year I love every year around now, I get the new catalogs or new magazines from all the outfitters that I'm buddies with and I get to see what are the new places that they're starting to explore. And in the world of saltwater fishing, you know you got places like the bahamas and the keys that are so well known, but they're, you know, outfitters are learning that there are these new destinations you can go for some of these species that are so cool and are just untapped.

Speaker 5:

You know, and in the world of tarpon there's, you know, all this excitement about. You know the north, you know northern parts of South America, of course, really a lot of exposure now to parts of Africa, western Africa. You know, for tarpon and in a world of permit, you're thinking about some of those areas. You know, as you come down along the inner side of the Yucatan Peninsula in Central America and you get into, you know, maybe, parts of Belize, southern Belize, not just Northern Belize, but Southern Belize, punta Gorda area, or a place that I'm hoping to get to, you know, because I also love Permit and the journey of it and parts of Honduras, and so that's a place I'm hoping we'll see if this all comes together, but I'm hoping at some point this spring that there may be an opportunity in 25 for me to go to again a new area for Permit right For me anyways, a new area.

Speaker 5:

That's really kind of stepping out as one of the new destinations to explore and to pursue that crazy fish. So that's again, I love it. You know, every year you get these whole new opportunities, whether it's a new location or a new species. It's all a new adventure and it makes it so cool.

Speaker 2:

Well in 2025, we have lots of adventures coming up. We got some special guests and just you know us two rambling sometimes, but we're excited for a good one here. On Untamed Pursuits and Ryder, thanks so much again for coming on and look forward to catching up with you again next week. You bet, man On behalf of myself and Ryder? This is Untamed Pursuits on the Outdoor Journal Radio Podcast Network. Thanks for listening.

Speaker 3:

Back in 2016,. Frank and I had a vision to amass the single largest database of muskie angling education material anywhere in the world.

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