#4 - Gabriel ‘Selassie’ Tsagli | Artist, Model, Dancer and Father

We are thrilled to present to you episode four of the ‘Shapeshifters’ Podcast featuring Gabriel ‘Selassie’ Tsagli.

This multidisciplinary artist takes us with him on his many journeys - from Ghana to Berlin, from modelling to becoming an artist. Him and Simon talk about what fosters  creativity and what it is like living in a very creative household together with his partner, also an artist, and his two year old daughter, Neptune.


This episode is in English.

Watch the video version of the podcast on YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/@simondubepaul/podcasts

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http://www.instagram.com/simondubepaul

Transcript

00:00:03:24 - 00:00:30:10

We hear episode four of Shapeshifter as podcast today. We got Selassie here in the building. We'll talk a lot about like how this transition from actually being a model to becoming a full time artist has happened over the past couple of years. How we started creating. So, yeah, Lava. Slava, how's it going? Hey, man, How you doing? Sun out here in Berlin.

00:00:30:12 - 00:00:57:16

Everything's calm. Just like how it always is in Germany on a Sunday in the neighborhood. We neighbors way away. As you walked over here for, like, 10 minutes. Right? Easy thing. This is what I do in West Berlin for quite some time already. So it's very moving. February have moved to Berlin last year, and then I was having like our apartment just for time and then we moved.

00:00:57:16 - 00:01:18:14

And so you're with the family. Which part of town was it? And like, okay, okay, what do you prefer in the here then in this part of town, I get along everywhere. I get along everywhere where I like home. I feel like if I'm calm in the calm place, I am more alone. And then I get to do more stuff.

00:01:18:14 - 00:01:49:19

So I like home. I mean, I like taking work. So it's cool. I mean, you traveled quite a bit over the world, right? And in the past couple of years, you were born and raised in Ghana, in Accra. I was born in Madrid and in Madrid. And I always said, I'm a holiday baby. So, like, the way my dad explained to me is my mom was trying to get the Spanish passport or she was trying to leave Ghana with my dad, too.

00:01:50:00 - 00:02:13:24

So when you when she was pregnant and she my dad kind of got divorced on the way and she stayed in Spain. So I was born in Spain. And then she didn't get the Spanish first, and then she went to Cote, the one took the bus to Ghana. Then I grew up in Ghana, but she moved to Germany when I was two.

00:02:14:01 - 00:02:37:08

So. So you arrived here in Germany at the age of two? No, she moved to Germany. I was too. I moved to Germany when I was 15. 15? Oh, wow. Okay. 15. So I went to school in Ghana, grew up with my grandmother and two aunties. And so, you know, Did you also have siblings over there or. I have half siblings.

00:02:37:08 - 00:02:56:13

I have like our sister living in Ghana right now. Then I have a sister in New York last year, just moved to New York. Then I have a brother in Boston. My dad lives in Boston. And which part of Germany did your mother move to? Where you've been to Cuba? That's close to Hamburg as well. Yeah. So I moved to Cuba.

00:02:56:16 - 00:03:39:03

When I came from Ghana, I went to school in Kiev. Hmm. If I can care, right? I mean, I mean, it's. It's. It's a bigger town in Germany, but it's kind of also kind of not as beautiful as like. Like I said, maybe that's why I like to come, because, like, Accra is very loud and I grew up and then someone in Accra, which is a very hectic place, it's very loud, very market to a lot of music and lot of repairing cars and a lot of little colorful shops like, you know, like but that's how I grew up.

00:03:39:03 - 00:04:02:20

So that's why I get along with both. I get it. Like, I feel like if you grow up in Ghana or maybe in Africa in general, no matter if you live in the city, you always get to see the village and you always get time to spend time in the village. So you have this natural sense of this is how a village works and this is how the city works.

00:04:02:22 - 00:04:28:13

So you learn really fast from a young age how to get along with both situations. Also like traditional situations, ritual situations, and very Christian situations in the city, you learn that really fast in Africa. So that's why I always say, if you can put me anyways, like then this is just energy saying nobody's responsible for who you are, you know?

00:04:28:15 - 00:05:00:06

So that's cool. Yeah. I mean, the name that your parents also gave you, like Gabriel is like Man of God and Selassie philosophy of God. And it's I mean, he's king, right? It's like your family royalty, actually, from in Ghana. Oh, my great, great, great, great, great grandfather is ancestral the royal and ever. But it's nothing I grew up with, really.

00:05:00:06 - 00:05:23:04

I feel like maybe just I don't know, maybe sometimes you have, like, this responsibility of names. You have a name, you just kind of get attached to energy, which is also maybe too much for, I guess, I don't know. Now, I'm definitely I'm definitely for the notion that, like, names definitely have power for sure. So how far is it?

00:05:23:04 - 00:05:49:01

And I don't know if I don't know, like really I don't know if if it is, I hope. I mean, so you said the transition to Germany was, for you kind of seamless because you're adapting to to like the city life comparison to like Ghana, Accra quite easily. What were like maybe the hurdles in the beginning when you arrived here, Where were you?

00:05:49:03 - 00:06:22:10

Where or where was it Like, okay, this is actually I prefer being here because in Ghana I did not have this or whatever. Oh yeah, like it's always like with me, definitely like mixed emotions too. Today, maybe also because every time in Ghana, I'm like, I've heard everything could have like this also, you know? But this also like the privilege that you have to work here and be able to create here and kind of also earned your money here.

00:06:22:12 - 00:06:44:22

So if you are there, you see life differently than someone that maybe went through the food transition. But like I honestly say, like my dream will be to live in Ghana for some time or at least make some, I think, you know, like long term and I would like to stay to 1 to 3 years and just make some art there.

00:06:44:24 - 00:07:19:17

But like my tribe in Ghana, it's quite ever it's never tried. They originally come from Benin and those are like slaves over the Togo shore. And then they captured the Volta region. So they have the same alphabets like German O. So there's something I noticed when I was I moved to Germany that I could read easy because I had the same alphabet.

00:07:19:19 - 00:07:51:23

So it was like, Reprograming yourself there. Okay, this is just a different language, a different way of communication, which is obviously super tough because you just have this self-confidence that you come with and you lose it when you are here because you have a new language. They have like new school, they have new people trying to communicate, and then it's not actually for you, even your English becomes bad because the translation is not like German to English is like, How do I translate this in Germany?

00:07:51:24 - 00:08:16:03

I still like to today I have does that even if I speak German and I sometimes feel like I'm translating before I speak German back. So I feel like it's a it's a mind thing, you know, it's energy, a thing that I've learned over the time that certain things just don't change your home anymore. If you grew up and go.

00:08:16:05 - 00:08:39:18

So you always have like, how do I bring my home here mentality in here? Like there's something I had to learn to master, to not feel like Germany is a hurdle anymore, to not feel like this is my my home, to kind of learn, to bring my home and situations that I have in the life that I have.

00:08:39:20 - 00:09:12:17

So I feel like it's never heard of. Still, I heard she's you learn to bring your home here and also you learn to meet new people. You learn to taste different situations just so much and so much to put in one place. But I feel like it's literally it's just a self-confidence and energy to really get along. Also, with English, it's just you have to have the self-confidence, just speak English or you tell yourself own need to have the self-confidence as the German.

00:09:12:18 - 00:09:35:18

So it is difficult on the radio I was clueless. Good. So like, I don't know, I feel like this. What I went to, I always was like, How don't I get underrated by not speaking this language? Because for everybody smart like that, it's is you have to write self-confident or not self-confident either you lose it or you with it, you know?

00:09:35:18 - 00:10:00:15

So you have to kind of learn to gain it for yourself in every new place. Absolutely. I mean, otherwise you don't have the opportunity to express yourself to the fullest, to everyone around you. And then they just get like a dollar version of you instead of like getting to know the that I don't know, like in general for like changes every day.

00:10:00:17 - 00:10:26:00

So you just got to learn to accept like there's a new space, there's a new place. People look at me differently, okay? There's no a lot of we are here. I deal with that. Okay. There's how you miss the school. Better. And there's also something I never. I never felt like the situation here was really better. I always was like it was taught to me differently.

00:10:26:02 - 00:10:52:12

But every time I go back to Africa, also, like the schools there, I like everything about the education. I like how I grew up here. And then understanding that, well, I get to touch things when I was young, like really crazy, and I used to know how it's a bit of both and shit like because I was just in Africa, This is what you do, you know, you learn to go fishing.

00:10:52:14 - 00:11:12:19

They not there is, but if you're in the village, you do stuff like that. You learn to do really crafty stuff. Then you forget that when you come here to the school, you forget the really easy. When when you are growing up, you become like how you she actually helps and you learn that. You learn to navigate around.

00:11:12:21 - 00:11:36:12

And what can you bring from this knowledge here that makes you you here? And I guess there's maybe a process I'm going to know still. You know, I mean, it's a bit of a pity that like schools over here, like they're very theoretical, but actually one of like the most important parts of humankind back in the days was also like crafting with your hands, building things.

00:11:36:14 - 00:12:06:21

I mean, now we even have like a job of handymen that actually can like rebuild a house, for example. And so, I mean, it changed quite a bit. So I think and over here you only have like this type of like different schools and Montessori schools, for example, that have a little bit of like a different landscape of education in this what it all a very traditional right and this were like this is what I feel like is not good actually, because it feels like the school is different.

00:12:06:23 - 00:12:38:05

You know, you should just feel like the school. Yeah. You know, like but it has this level of difference, which is something I don't I don't think that it should be just personal now for like stuff is stuff. This stuff teaches you to learn different stuff and it doesn't matter how. It's just for everybody is different. For everybody is right the way it is if you look at it right and if you use it right, maybe I'm not sure.

00:12:38:07 - 00:12:58:00

I mean, the first time we actually met was like in 2016, which was like not long ago. I mean, back then you were like still super invested into like modeling. How did she come about? How how did you become like a model? And I mean, back then it was also we barely had any, like people of color in the modeling world in Germany.

00:12:58:02 - 00:13:20:20

So, I mean, whenever like you met someone that was actually also a person of color, like you always kind of I mean, we reached out there and then we also kicked it afterwards just because you want to, like, exchange experiences. So brother and I yo at home in the game room, you know, like, I don't know, I went to school, was in Q into school.

00:13:20:22 - 00:13:42:08

My mom was for some type of world work because you just want to change. And she moved to Frankfurt and I moved with her and I wanted to do investment banking because my dad was investment bankers. I was like reading about stocks and numbers and stuff like that. Just, I don't know, I just like, seen who controls the market.

00:13:42:08 - 00:14:09:04

Maybe, and just random stuff like I used to like doing stuff like that. I was playing basketball at the time and dancing, so I was actually more invested into dancing and moved to Frankfurt and went to one of the first lessons of world stock trading, and it was about diamond trading. It made me feel some type of it.

00:14:09:04 - 00:14:34:15

Maybe it wasn't over. Well, I don't know. I like emotionally is just I don't know. But I didn't feel like I was about that. Maybe and went to the do and I met this cool guy who actually did and brought me into modeling, brought me into art. It was just he was a creative director and producer, was producing his own runway shows and stuff like that.

00:14:34:17 - 00:15:06:09

He asked me in the gym, Yo, you look cool. And I to the every blow. And do you feel like doing the show? The my profession and from the place I come from, he was homosexual. So I had a first fear, like the first time I saw him, but he was very genuine and a very cool person and he ended up becoming my mentor and teaching me a lot about life, like just in general about humans.

00:15:06:09 - 00:15:43:19

And it was just a very fun, cool guy to hang around with, very smart collector that was doing all these shows and I did a runway show for him. It was a cool one and it ended up being like, Yo, you should do some of this stuff, but you should also work sideways for me. So I was modeling and then working sideways for him and production and learning how to do like different stuff like set as I said, is like just like crazy hand paint cables.

00:15:43:21 - 00:16:12:22

I go with 12 models on the road and going to a show like a big mall. I do like a whole runway. She set up the speakers and everything, so I was doing stuff like this for him on the side. And since I did the runway show, I ended up being the cool black kid that would end up in agencies just maybe because of the randomness of my look and the easiness of who I was.

00:16:12:22 - 00:16:51:11

And just I always thought it was like funny because modeling was always like, so such a posh world from the place I come from was like, Those are such a funny world to look at for me. But it made me learn so much about creativity, creative directing, but also a lot of human and how we label things and how humans can become a product and just something to put on clothes on and just photograph and the personality gets lost.

00:16:51:11 - 00:17:13:17

So since I started modeling, I was always focused more help helping terror and and stuff, and we were always on the road. It became like this natural thing to go with me to museum and talk to me about art. So for like in four years, five years of work on fire, there was just like what I was doing.

00:17:13:18 - 00:17:46:07

I was lucky and could travel a bit. Sometimes I would spend time in different countries and then go back to Frankfurt when I was living there. And then at some point I moved to Hamburg. Omar was still living in Frankfurt. She became sick and then it became like just this journey of production and what I mean, at the same time, it also kind of took like modeling and like obviously the production also teaches you to be like self reliant and be self employed.

00:17:46:09 - 00:18:07:12

And is that something that you would say that was something that you always wanted to hold on to, that you can make money and work freely? Is that something that you kind of learned during that time? Like I said, like for myself, when I moved here, I felt like, you know, and this is doing something for my self-confidence.

00:18:07:14 - 00:18:37:12

And I feel like for me, the only way to gain my self-confidence is being someone that's kind of like doing this stuff. And so I felt like listening to people honestly, like so it's tough for me to work for somebody because I feel like I will disrespect you because I have my own head. And I always feel like doing what I feel like doing, you know, because I don't I don't have any bad tendencies.

00:18:37:14 - 00:19:08:12

I want to create something cool. So I don't like listening to people. I just like collaborating. Maybe. So the mindset of working for somebody was always something that kind of bothered me, actually. Like what was forced me. Oh, if I didn't say something in life, I was always spending to you. You know, some always I've always been the type of because also, like, like I said in Ghana, I did get to spend a lot of time freely with yourself.

00:19:08:14 - 00:19:33:20

So you just learn this mentality of, yeah, do this. You get to learn crafty stuff so you rely on yourself. Even if I'm not doing something crafty, my mind was totally like yourself and it's just how my heart works. Also, it's just like I rather bring people into places and just do something instead of I work for you, or you work for me.

00:19:33:21 - 00:19:59:07

Like, you know, like feel like this is who I am in my head. I mean, you mentioned already then like that you're you were working as a model producing, and then your mother also got sick, right? So she was like dealing with mental health issues and was diagnosed with cancer. Exactly. And that kind of also shifted like the whole like modeling and producing to.

00:19:59:09 - 00:20:20:17

Okay, now I have to deal with with the sickness in my in my family. I need to be there for my family. I need to back my mom up. And that also, like in another interview that you kind of mentioned, it kind of helped you concentrating more on the art process to actually deal with the situation that you had at home.

00:20:20:19 - 00:20:57:17

So it wasn't like did it help you to cope? And then it kind of became this transition into art here was like, man traveling around and everything is like nice and everything. But at home then your mom was sick and then she has cancer and she has come from this abusive X-Men. And then you try to understand like life at that point being like 22, 22, 22, you figure, Oh man, I actually only have my mom in Germany.

00:20:57:19 - 00:21:28:08

The rest of my family is in Ghana. So you have this process of how do I rely on myself and get through this and how do how do you also make someone understand that has cancer, someone natural? You know, because it's somewhat emotional. Africa also has a mentality. Life has been spent on doctors like, oh, generation African parents.

00:21:28:10 - 00:21:51:10

They're like, they're the best because they made it possible for their children to come here and learn something new. But on this journey, to learn that he is better medicine is where this is better. If you rely on the doctor, this is better. So like I said in my first course, we've stuck to it and became like diamond trading of comfort level.

00:21:51:12 - 00:22:20:17

And then with cancer you learn if because of natural causes, well, food comes of mental health comes comes the world, How do you live so to actually teach your mother, you have to reprogram your own self is kind of like just being the teacher that don't work with parents like that. So you kind of just have to live like that.

00:22:20:17 - 00:22:44:08

And and my mom was very creative and a lot of the stuff that I do creatively is because of my mom and my grandma and my grandpa. Maybe I feel like a lot of so my mom's mentality, she's a lot of doing stuff herself. So when she became sick, I felt like this moment is maybe about reminding her to continue to do stuff herself.

00:22:44:10 - 00:23:13:05

So I started questioning, like modeling about being Dominican as a Christian and just working for people and spending time with a person. I, the Christian, like up to the you know, like I just had that phase of my life. Everything was like, okay, well, maybe I'll have a look looking cool. I don't have any of this. I see you spending time with your mom.

00:23:13:05 - 00:23:50:00

But then you have to also balance how do I earn money and how do I spend time with your mother and how do I create on the side? So it was this like slow transition out of modeling and helping my friends, making music videos, doing like creative direction for a label back in the days. And I'm like, I like just having my mom closer to me, seeking for the right doctors, seeking for the right approach, just stuff like that.

00:23:50:01 - 00:24:13:19

Also learning how to cope with it and also being the boyfriend at that time. Like I know just massive energy you got to deal with, but like, I don't know, at this age first, like everybody that brought you somewhere, that taught you something that I felt like hell was breaking down on, you are like, What the fuck is going on?

00:24:13:20 - 00:24:44:05

Everybody knows who. Not everybody knows what's going on. Yeah, because you have to just learn for yourself how to meditate through all of this. It's like lesson yourself and have the right people around you and teach us how to go through all of this. So I feel like the easiest way for me was really creativity. Like honestly speaking, like, think it made sense then painting and actually being around music.

00:24:44:07 - 00:25:16:01

It made me feel like I'm home. Like literally, like free walk out of my door and got to that. But now, you know, and really, like for me, it's like, have a life. I hear that like life like is something where I always like, you know, it's cool for me. The music gave me that and painting gave me that in my head became like this loud place to be for myself.

00:25:16:01 - 00:25:43:05

Just to reflect then. But nobody's around you allowed for yourself. And every loud was just on the canvas. After day, night you go to bed. It's just it taught me a lot. Like, Oh, just sit there and look at my mom. And then because I didn't go to painting school and stuff like that and I came from dancing naturally.

00:25:43:07 - 00:26:11:09

Oh, just paint like stigmas and just like, look at her body with your spirit and the stigma. And then I'll go on the Internet and research what a body movement because of the human emotion. And then it became like this way of learning my way to medicine, myself and my mom. So, like, I feel like this dusty, reflect, bro.

00:26:11:15 - 00:26:34:06

Like, I feel like if you go deep inside, like you do it with the heart and it makes you question yourself. If you are actually standing right, if your body movement is right. So it became like this first step into art. So it's like literally painting stigmas. And he just canvases because they were huge. It was like, boom, in your face.

00:26:34:06 - 00:27:08:13

This is the way someone is standing. Mm hmm. Just go out and do that. So the designs of the stickman was kind of the beginning of your of painting canvases and also observing people and just getting a feeling of, okay, you concentrate on postures of humans that you see on the street, etc., and you kind of also reflect on what their body language actually says about where they are in their current life or what is happening around them.

00:27:08:15 - 00:27:43:09

You can never kind of guess where someone is currently. That's like playing God or something, but you can kind of see if you like. There's like doctors who do just movement and they will see on the way that you stand if your shoulders are right on. And there's places in the body where I definitely know that if you have pain, it connects a different nerve systems and your body just doesn't stand right.

00:27:43:13 - 00:28:11:24

Like, So I felt like that was just it was like mirroring yourself. And then everybody, you look at this like kind of a mirror of who you are. So you kind of have to go through something to get to that thought. So it was like there was like how art made me reflect that were my current state of being, because I felt I always used to reflect on kind of like where I am and what's around me and where I was.

00:28:11:24 - 00:28:37:14

It made me reflect through that on my current state of, you know, I would be interested in body development and then I would watch my body of movement on the next day. And I actually I said, okay, what's going on right now? I had a friend who was dealing with massages and mental issues at that time. He was like a total for those just go and visit him and then he would talk about it and movement and different.

00:28:37:17 - 00:29:06:06

So he has this program right now called Emotional release of sorts of massage and different people to therapy. So it was like true that it kind of became this normal transition into art. And then from there it became like color, like colors seven days a week, seven different chakra colors was kind of in the body. Who for it to become like a round circle of study.

00:29:06:06 - 00:29:45:22

For me, it was just kind of like, What am I going to what do I need? Sound colors. I have to take care of my own body movement. That maybe means I have to make more sports. Maybe I have to make sure I'm healthy. Maybe I have to eat differently. Who become like research? I just became very obsessed with it at some time and was photographing a lot of people just to know if I'm right or wrong because it became who can we're working on myself, or is this bringing me into something in art or am I just go, okay, I'm thinking about anything.

00:29:45:22 - 00:30:20:20

Like at that point was every day for me. So yeah, like, like, I don't know, it just got me somewhere the other point or not. And it made people maybe also notice what I was doing and people would help me show my art to that. So having like a holistic view around like basically everything and seeing and reflecting, if you're also yourself on the right path to like a healthy and full life.

00:30:20:22 - 00:30:54:01

Well, I heard for my first time my voice on a microphone. I got the first of the because I didn't know it was an instrument. It was like this instrument. And the way I, I was on the sit down like, you don't get it at the air is in the tray and so it has to be co some type of spiritual approach or some type of healing to kind of notice yourself, you know.

00:30:54:03 - 00:31:20:18

So I felt like naturally, even if you don't see it as that this is what I does with you and it makes you just reflect of yourself and your surrounding. And I feel like you can question that if it's holistic or not, but it's just what it does with you. You kind of kind of get transformed into what you're thinking about.

00:31:20:20 - 00:31:45:03

You know, how to deal with what you're thinking or to be able to take a while, to be able to not think about it too much for it to be kind of a no. They for you. So yeah, definitely became like meditation sounds. They chakras at some point I would paint a different color on a different day just to learn more about colors and tones.

00:31:45:03 - 00:32:04:23

Like, just like I felt like it was my way of teaching myself because I would know that a lot of artists are like, they're trained, they're good, and my favorite ideas are like, really good. Like I don't have like big favorite artists. Also like, Oh my, for the others I like, I can go see them like they are around me, like all my friends.

00:32:04:24 - 00:32:38:07

I actually like the crazy, like, you know, like they all do like crazy stuff. So I feel like all the people around me are kind of like the bulk of what they're doing. They are trained. Yeah, some of them are trying to hold on or train. Those who are not trained have a natural sense of approach and is inspiring and you kind of adapt to it and it takes you alone, even friends I was hanging around with at that time, they were very wild, but they were very holistic and they were like one of my friends who are 24.

00:32:38:07 - 00:33:02:02

He wasn't even gluten, and it was just different from everything I knew of a society. He wouldn't drain just water and I wouldn't see the world at that point. But to him and to also just reflections, I would understand. Maybe it's always the right people around you in a certain time, and maybe everybody's a teacher, so you kind of navigate to a life like that.

00:33:02:04 - 00:33:42:05

Is there like the artists that also inspired you, or is it more like I started really painting when I saw Blue from busker? Okay, so opinion from Basquiat on the show, five and five foot, I saw the blue light show, You hit me, you understand it? And so like inspiration, there's inspiration, but like it's like you have everything from someone, you know, like I probably started playing basketball because I sound like, you know, I saw Kobe Bryant and Kobe Bryant and I was like, Whoa, that looks very beautiful.

00:33:42:05 - 00:34:23:07

And a movement just because I was dancing and the way he moves, looks very flowy. So he made me fall in love with basketball. So you see someone like Basquiat and they are like me, black man, also doing study sports that still made it into art or how it struggled to make it into art. But now he's a story for a lot of black artists before they start, you know, whose kind of like inspiration is all around Dali's like the leave because they just did everything and he did everything crazily good, like from jewelry to buildings.

00:34:23:07 - 00:34:47:03

And I like that idea of just creating like I would like people to even call me artists like that. They like to be Selassie, you know, and delicious and, you know, yeah, like usually the person be who they are and you don't never know what you create. You know, at the end, I created a baby. It's a different creation.

00:34:47:07 - 00:35:38:17

It's a different blessing to, you know, serving as part of it. But I mean, that's why you also don't really restrict yourself to like one art form, right? Because like, it's written word of stance, expressive dance painting is it like, do you hop back and forth between different type of forms of art just because it's easier for you to then always create and you never really get bored and creativity is never lacking or is it is actually really tough because I was at a point in my life where I felt like, why we're doing all this because it takes energy and at some point you also become like, okay, I need to earn money.

00:35:38:19 - 00:36:13:21

I need to focus on one stuff and then I was I know, just like if needed, you know, you know, I kind of find this and this takes you there and then it just takes, it takes, it takes. It is like I feel like because I missed a lot of time learning stuff that I learned in Ghana, in Germany, this form of creativity kind of takes me back to school.

00:36:13:23 - 00:36:43:18

I'm kind of forced to teach myself different stuff to survive. You face like it's also like more emotionally fast just to keep up my own self-confidence or my own being emotionally forced to hey, is that and create that. And then you also learn different stuff in Europe. So you kind of learn to bring both together for life naturally.

00:36:43:20 - 00:37:11:12

That's what happens. If I look at a lot of African kids in general, a lot of creativity, and a lot of us have a self exposure. And I feel like it just comes with just wanting to be seen in this world also. So you do your stuff in. You don't care that I'm not there. I have to be just super good at one thing.

00:37:11:12 - 00:37:28:11

It's like you don't restrict yourself. You're like, And I also feel I'm not good at it. One they like, like really like it's not like I feel like I'm good at music. I feel like I'm good at painting and I don't feel like I'm good at any of them. I feel like do know who is a good thing?

00:37:28:13 - 00:37:58:00

Like I like doing them, like to make me happy and hopefully to make me and who who's like and I girl like she makes me happy. Like to find out or to question something to think of something that was like, there's breaks for each other. So and I just friend I know all of them and I just come to question and comfort and I was just questioning comfort because maybe a sofa looks softer.

00:37:58:00 - 00:38:24:17

I know. Or maybe it's not comfortable, you know, maybe something less straight and really straight. It doesn't look comfortable. Makes you sit right. And maybe this is what I'm about. And like Christine, so many things. I look in the conundrum and I'm like, well, being around, how would you thinking around? Like, I'd like to have a studio this road.

00:38:24:19 - 00:38:49:21

I like to see myself and I do like, like just because I you don't have that experience, you know? So I feel like I'm seeking for an experience that I never had. So that's why I do the stuff that I'm doing of seeking for who I never continued handcrafting and creating. So now I'm doing it. So I'm continue seeking for it.

00:38:49:21 - 00:39:16:11

So like, maybe it's like dreams and goals. You know, I, when I come to the house the way I feel like a house should look like so cool. All right. So it was a random survey. It doesn't have to be like in the city or something, just like how my imagination sees or how they will move around. Well, we like how would it be for, like, attendance?

00:39:16:13 - 00:39:38:17

What I'm I'm about I'm a I'm about looking for this experience of myself. But does it ever matter if you feel like creating or is it you just do it anyway? Because I mean, there are a lot of people or artists that basically say that creativity is something that is also like the skill that you kind of you just keep creating.

00:39:38:17 - 00:40:06:23

You keep creating even this key repetition to CNN. And I mean, sometimes you would even if you say a result as maybe you don't regard it as good or inadequate for that moment, sometimes even something that you created and you look back at it and maybe that's a different story. Yeah, it's a different story. Or definitely like I feel like now living in art is like because I painted eight years and then I did my first exhibition, so thank you.

00:40:07:04 - 00:40:33:04

Yeah. When you were doing that, you didn't think of your first exhibition, but you would do it. I also didn't think of, okay, I'm painting. I'm afraid for my girlfriend. For like, painting. We go out, we buy canvases, we paint on the behind. It's a B on the parking lot. We saw the paintings in the building. So I feel like some Polish guy €50 to check on the paintings.

00:40:33:06 - 00:40:52:04

So I come and pick it up like two days later. And. And then when I don't think of what I'm doing, I think I want to paint, you know, like, because I want to have fun and. Maybe like there was this moment when my mom was sick where I was like, I try to get out of my head.

00:40:52:06 - 00:41:11:13

And I tried to have fun at parties and I noticed doesn't bring me anything they didn't give me out of my head. I was just trying to restrict myself from what was going on. And at some point I was painting a new well, if I wanted a time off from everything, actually this really gets me out of my head.

00:41:11:15 - 00:41:36:03

It really makes me forget time for a very long period. And I don't like I don't notice that time at that time. And it's tougher to deal with me like that. But it's like I forget creativity is always I learned to structure it, you know, and I learn to manage it around family and life and friends and happenings and stuff like that.

00:41:36:03 - 00:41:58:06

But I feel like all of this stuff that is also happening is kind of like it's the process also, you know, if you're enjoying the moments with friends and your family, you kind of have a different process in the studio. Back in the days, I feel like I need to paint to create a space of creating out of pain or I was creating because I was having this pain.

00:41:58:08 - 00:42:34:09

And then at some point I just made, if I felt good and I'm healthy and I eat good and it's a good in the studio, you know, you have like, you know, good energy in the studio life, good about yourself. And I feel like that's what it got me to like, you know, I guess this process of when you need to do this out of stuff, you can do this out of repetition, you can do this because you like doing the I like going to the studio and also sitting there and just looking at painting and I like to work on and just go to the museum and this.

00:42:34:11 - 00:42:54:05

So like I was also take time was I wasn't a week so I don't do so as a month and I do stuff one or two months, I don't do anything and it's stuff, I know it. I go to it like I don't even want to do a sketch because I understand. Like it's also taking time for love and taking time for people.

00:42:54:05 - 00:43:16:01

And it's just a process of things, you know? So obviously we all dream of being this why this pain that it doesn't give a fuck. It's like all over the place. And doing stuff for me is it has become this thing of peace. I do it because it's come, you know, and it's like it's not even about money.

00:43:16:01 - 00:43:50:16

Like then like if you're really on the market as a lot of people can offer your paintings like that because you have to like kind of just grow stories, grow like cupcakes. Christian comfort. I feel like that's who I am. I'm like, This is first. And you try to survive. So I would take this. You paint, you make clothing, you make music, you make all of this stuff that makes you happy.

00:43:50:16 - 00:44:12:09

And all of this stuff is also survival tactics to make you get a life. Someone appreciates that you take your time to do these things and these, you know, able to tell you a story and then someone gives you a dollar or two and then you go buy colors and a microphone and then you continue. It's like, you know, for someone else, they go pay for it.

00:44:12:09 - 00:44:40:05

For me, that's how I get paid. It's fine. I mean, it's so many different avenues and you always find someone showing love in one of those avenues. Yeah. And then obviously it also maybe translates into material things or money or whatever, but also just. Yeah, just, just interest in what you're doing, right? You're like, Yeah, I'm just interested in people like that.

00:44:40:05 - 00:45:05:11

You know, I find people interesting. I find our heart and our mind very interesting life, just the way it functions of find our way of just going through life interesting. And I feel like I'm a lucky one. You know, I got to see a lot of worlds. I got to live a lot of life, and I'm very thankful for that.

00:45:05:13 - 00:45:40:13

So it got me to see like different things in life. And it's like cherry picking year to pick a lot of good things for a lot of people that you met all the time. And then it continues cherry picking and you said you never really consider yourself or your or your products when you when you draw or you're making music as good in that sense as more just a reflection of the moment or the now that you're being in.

00:45:40:15 - 00:46:02:14

And it kind of unlocks the journey, the next creation that you're that you're going to do you think there's ever going to be a moment or a piece of art where you're going to say, Goddamn this, like I killed this? Like, this is good. And I do have moments like that. Like it's called like it's good, you know, like I have moments like that.

00:46:02:16 - 00:46:28:07

Definitely. It's just I don't know. Sometimes it's the African way and, you know, comfort. It's a killer for the African way. You know, there's just it's just really what it is. Comfort is a killer, but I think everybody upbringing in this, right, because their parents always they always ask like African parents they always ask for more Like for more is like, yeah, like, okay, yeah.

00:46:28:07 - 00:46:57:17

Because they're like, this is no way like that, because then people suffer it like, so I understand people suffered, you know, like I went to Ghana and I went to different classes and understand the numbers of slave were No. One to all this kind of and then this then the few than one of people there were forcibly taken to different places.

00:46:57:17 - 00:47:37:01

I understand how many people suffered, you know, and I understand understand my whole understand what? Privilege. Understand Like and then after I have gratitude for what I'm able to do here in terms of learning and growing up, you know, because it's like I dream of making like a residency program where people come and learn they're in Africa, like in my village or something, but not even like learning.

00:47:37:01 - 00:48:13:20

They just come to teach and leave to leave because I learned a lot here that I know that learned differently there. And I like to see a young African kid do 3D from his village. Why not forcing himself to move into a big city? Because it gives him more possibility of money or perspective or something. I like him to do it for his face and be able to travel and see the world like that.

00:48:13:22 - 00:48:48:22

I feel like maybe that's why I. I don't have them achieve this goal yet. So maybe that's why I don't have a comfort. Maybe that's why a good painting. You know, there's a cool painting. That would be a good one. Okay. Even if it's not on the canvas, is a good canvas. Mm hmm. Like maybe the cameras of the world, like, because it's like I used to sit in Ghana and look at planes and be like, Hmm, it's not that deep.

00:48:48:22 - 00:49:17:08

You can actually get there. Something you can sit in that takes you to the other side. But then they also understood tumor parent for some people who struggle to get there, for some people as a running away to get there. And I would like to change that type of mentality. And like we already talked about this topic a lot and we always say, yes, we try a lot to help in Africa, but sometimes also it's a first try.

00:49:17:10 - 00:49:40:04

But I feel like at least it's good to try something, you know, in your way. That's why I wouldn't like to rely on anything else then actually me and my circle to go that way. Your your partner, Kiara, she she's also kind of an artist as well, right? Like she produces she's a goldsmith and produces fine fine jewelry.

00:49:40:04 - 00:50:18:12

Right. Like a lot of the stuff that you're wearing, I wanted to say is also from her. I mean, she does super nice things. And how is it so your home is like also kind of like a creative space cause yeah, I know. Good kids, good traffic, good kids. No, that was that was like, very for you. My question is like, do does work ever stop or how, how does the creativity in your in your own home also and does it play a huge part in your relationship is 5050 man like it's like it's just who we are.

00:50:18:12 - 00:50:46:08

You know I through your whole wake up and now I we do this I mean it is so it's just who we are. And I feel like we and then you choose the right side, which is love. And if you choose love, you know who you're dealing with. And we have moments where we take a time of big time, our whole family, and then we have moments where we take time as well.

00:50:46:08 - 00:51:17:18

So like I woman So I don't work I really well two times a week because I'm always a window to those two days a week, like 24 hours with an empty. So I feel like it's also my way of gaining energy to go crazy So here like it's mad creative energy at home, you know, I tell you, leptin and the drugs do like, but it's good.

00:51:17:18 - 00:51:45:15

It's a good back and forth, you know like you can bounce back, you can ask questions, you can question yourself. I love because she's very smart, very creative, and actually, I never feel like she sees yes, this is cool to this, that, you know, in the process of things when I'm actually No, it's always like a question in question.

00:51:45:15 - 00:52:25:13

The question in question it when the moment who has done it's always a surprised so like I feel like it's good like I will freak you know so not everybody can go yeah yeah I could cover the so there is of some that is don't serve we was of the we because like it's just humans like the who you just I find it perfect like a learning to have more gratitude to I mean that's nice to be that's yeah like a little like nothing is perfect for us.

00:52:25:13 - 00:52:51:11

It's perfect Yeah. So I'm learning to definitely have more gratitude to actually what I have. But because I feel I know a lot of people can hang on. So certain video like that is cool and you were also together were also spending some or living and on the outskirts of Munich right like you had like this huge activity out there and it was like more based in nature, more calm.

00:52:51:13 - 00:53:17:06

And and then you kind of move now to Berlin. What like what made you make that transition? Is it better to for an artist to be based out here, or is it what was like the the motive behind it? Because I can imagine for vintners may know like to I was living in Kiev. I never went back to Hamburg.

00:53:17:08 - 00:53:54:14

She was in Barcelona and I moved to Berlin over cool with we met around that time and everything was going on and it was just like Munich was cool because I never spend a lot of time with family in Germany. So it was our way of who we had become in our family. Get out of everything. That's crazy and why and try to get along with each other before we went into the life.

00:53:54:16 - 00:54:20:10

And luckily I got that that crazy I tell you. And was also this transition of doing something and stuff. But what do you want to do and spending time in that. I tell you, you kind of taught me what I want to do because I did everything in the the house with the world before. Like there was a bunch of friends coming over from Hamburg or Nicky, and we just they, I was fine.

00:54:20:10 - 00:54:41:08

They, they help build a house out of Alexi was like a reflection of a culvert and a bit of word of that. Then it was just like a freaky time, and it made me understand, Oh, yeah, I'm becoming a dad. I was actually. Was. What do I want to do? We are far away from everything that can distract you.

00:54:41:10 - 00:55:14:11

You are here. You have this big hall. What do you want to do? It's like becoming a dad. Give me the answer, actually. So it was. And then we moved to Berlin because I started getting more attention for art and questions. So art and I was doing music here already and all of my surroundings were building. I always had a lot of friends in Berlin since ten years.

00:55:14:13 - 00:55:41:09

We know each other since like modeling time. And before that time I was already dancing and really into wax and myself. I would see in Berlin what city in Germany is dynamic enough to live in and also grew a child. There's like green and belly nice and Berlin. You were also like curating. Now during Berlin I freak out here, right?

00:55:41:15 - 00:56:08:22

Like showing your work and work from like other artists and I mean horse and shoe innovator and how, how was it like curating that exhibition and like, did you enjoy it? And how often do you actually exhibit like, work? My multiple years had been off my mahalla and mahalla is, is this crazy space where it has rules but no rules.

00:56:09:03 - 00:56:42:19

So like, there's just a lot of artists, then everybody is doing their stuff and it's 7000 square meters. So we thought of the idea, how is it for bring Everything together? Because every artist has had different records and every artist has like their taste of food they would put maybe home or which artist inspires them, how they would create a space like here.

00:56:42:19 - 00:57:17:16

Like, yeah, actually I just thought of a busker said Art is about how you create a space. So it like it kind of makes sense to be an artist that also can be able to curate ego wise. It was kind of tough for me because his, you know, so much with yourself. Sometimes the giving of yourself can be tough, honestly saying, but it was a very beautiful experience because I am artist that I actually really like.

00:57:17:18 - 00:57:40:16

And they say yes. And I was like, Whoa. Like, I was like, like, obviously you wish you could have X more. Obviously, like, it can always be ideal, but it was a cool experience and know that, you know, some people see you also in terms of they see you so much that they trust you to present their art.

00:57:40:18 - 00:58:16:05

And I say, who is like, That was very cool. So it's kind of like a respectable feedback, like from, from people inside the art world of gratitude. I think my careful of it definitely. If you can give someone your art and school trust because I'm learning that right now, I mean they're they're also like a lot of artists that can actually not, not fully concentrate on just being an artist just because of the financial aspect.

00:58:16:07 - 00:58:41:11

How how do you actually manage that? Is it like you said, you don't really care about it, but at the same time you need to have the freedom of being financially stable, of being in that position, of not having to worry and maybe juggle two other jobs too. So be able to create as what I do. I have a bunch of jobs for like, like really like, Yeah, this is like survival tactics.

00:58:41:11 - 00:59:21:05

I like doing stuff because also because it's just it's just what I do like. And all this stuff has different interests. They obviously I'm focused on building the brand. I am for building the brand that has different platforms to it. But I've also understood having different talents. You should limit yourself to one thing because multiple talents can bring multiple incomes.

00:59:21:07 - 00:59:50:19

If you understand that is about repetition and understand which ones are in one focused on one word. So they I feel like a lot of the times of mirrored myself and question myself and ask myself what would little Selassie be happy with and lose a lot of love, loss a lot about art and culture. So I focus a lot of that I do around that.

00:59:50:21 - 01:00:20:22

And it's also good to have people around you that know a lot about research. If you don't come from artistic university or anything, there's two ways to get grants and stuff. The hopefully, which I know that I'm good at applying for grants. I'm just learning that also right now. So let me just put it like that because like I'm just literally explaining what I'm going through.

01:00:20:24 - 01:00:45:24

So I'm lucky I get to work with different people, different brands, whatever. But I've also learned in the time in Berlin and moving into this apartment and being settled in one place, that there's ways to apply for grants. If you have done the work. For me, it's like MO to put your views to multiple tenants, to showcase the type of stuff that you can do.

01:00:46:01 - 01:01:08:00

They can apply for different grants. So my hope you continue doing the stuff that you do it. So this joke, this low, that's what I mean. And then it's not about an artists about making art. So in terms of making art, you learn all these different languages and learn to speak this languages where you get all this hopes that you need.

01:01:08:00 - 01:01:43:10

Also, if you are, if you have the right people around you like. But yeah, like I feel like it's ups and downs, legs and legs and yeah, like in that sense. But you can think yeah you can, you can think of money like that. If you make making art like you can just concentrate, you got to continue, you know, I think you can give up because of my role like literally like it's just so you need a side job and then you actually go into the studio after the site.

01:01:43:10 - 01:02:06:15

So there's all of us started like that. I was making juices for my mom was sick and doing production and painting and doing all this stuff because I knew I wanted to be here and I knew what I wanted to do. At some point I looked at my boss at the Juice. I was I mean, I've been in the and I've changed the whole decoration, like because I just take like that.

01:02:06:21 - 01:02:32:05

I just cannot work for you. Just teaches me a different stuff. So I feel like it's just hustle, you know? You got a hustling, got to save money and you go, you can't can be balling like that. You will blow it your energy and then put the money. And so we created it. We created okay in and then at some point you find the truth.

01:02:32:07 - 01:03:06:22

But but generally it's it's not that easy to break through into the art world. Right. And be like get it being recognized by art critics and getting the right placements at the right exhibitions and stuff. It's a game as well in that sense, right? I don't know them yet. Regular year old, you're on your way. Yeah. Yeah. Like, obviously it's like it is it is very tough to break into that world because obviously there's galleries that are bigger, there's galleries and I'm better, there's galleries that there's, there's that.

01:03:06:24 - 01:03:30:13

But you want to just follow the energy, you know, like I believe my stuff, like I just believe in me. I try to every day doesn't work every day, but I really do believe in me a lot. And I believe that some of the stuff that I do, even though I don't see it, I do it so much of love.

01:03:30:15 - 01:04:02:15

That is cool, you know? And I believe for me it's about doing so. And the recognition will come. You know, I everytime I needed money, I had someone coming to buy them when I was really and struggling to find a buyer that's really believed in me and like, I just was like because it's like that I would just continue like this and build the right frequency around me.

01:04:02:17 - 01:04:31:05

And even though I was maybe not like that, maybe I know of a black man do cultural stuff now I'm breaking the culture, you know, I tell you like, like a then you can't rely on anybody. You can't wait for someone to come and save you. So I continue painting. Like, who should I wait for? Like if he's there, he'll be there for for me as well.

01:04:31:07 - 01:04:59:14

I mean, like you also said, you have a child, right? Neptune She's like two years old now. I mean, also, if you if you have that dynamic of a family at home, it's like in the end, it's like, you can't wait for anything. It's both. You got to keep going. You got to keep grinding. Gary Cooper, Brian Carey, people honestly saying nobody says, well, like Neptune is like it's like, I got that wow already and I'm going to continue collecting those wells.

01:04:59:16 - 01:05:31:07

And it's kind of like that. Like, like, man, we live in a world where I feel like I believe energy, good energy with some type of things. And like I said, this is for ritual. It's a spiritual communication. So as long as you're all right, is clean, everything will always, always become and this is how I grew up, you know, I yeah, that's how I grew up.

01:05:31:09 - 01:06:00:03

Like, literally everything was always good, even though it was a hassle. I think when Grandma taught me that my mother taught me that here. And even though we didn't have everything, everything was always good. Like I learned both through that and I felt it's good to continue like that and everything is cool. I will privilege you. Absolutely. So I'm definitely super curious on where the journey is going to take you.

01:06:00:05 - 01:06:26:23

And in the end for you, we can still expect like a lot of a lot of good and great things from you. So let's let's go keep raining, man. It was a pleasure to have you here on the show. The blessing was a really nice talk, also like a completely different like view than than the other talks that I have before that were like, more concentrated like on the sports realm.

01:06:27:00 - 01:06:50:17

But yeah, it's also a lot about how you like change the angle of like how you look at certain things and it's like even even like the basketball coaches now with like there's of course you always hear like basketball is an art form, but like that actually inspired you to, to translate the movement that like Kobe did and Kyrie and it's like it's like, it's nice.

01:06:50:17 - 01:07:05:01

So thank you very much for having to do with, say, O Blessings and so nice, you know.