Wisconsin Sports on the go with Trag
Wisconsin Sports on the go with Trag is a podcast aiming at bringing you Wisconsin sports news and opinions everyday! Follow the podcast and find us live Sunday, Wednesday and Friday nights on Twitter, Facebook, Youtube, Twitch and Kick TV.
Wisconsin Sports on the go with Trag
Wisconsin's Football Defensive Woes, Badgermbb Prepares for Michigan, College Football Rivalries, and NFL Playoff Debates – Wisconsin Sports on the Go with Trag, Aaron & Kyle
Ever wondered why the Wisconsin Badgers have been struggling defensively, or who might take over Carrie Underwood's iconic role on Sunday Night Football? Join us as we, Trage, along with Aaron and Kyle, unpack these intriguing topics and more. The episode kicks off with a cold Wisconsin evening vibe, complete with snowy backyard nostalgia, before diving into the sports scene. We share our thoughts on the NCAA Women's Volleyball Tournament, rooting for the Badgers as they gear up for an exciting campaign. Meanwhile, in the realm of football, we dissect Wisconsin's defensive dilemmas, armed with disheartening stats and a call for strategic innovation.
Switching gears, we confront the aftermath of the Michigan vs. Ohio State clash, where raw emotions spilled onto the field, leading to chaos and controversy. We analyze the leadership—or lack thereof—during the turmoil and ponder potential repercussions for playoff aspirations. Our conversation highlights the fierce rivalries in college sports and their implications, drawing parallels to legendary matchups like Red Sox-Yankees. And as the college football playoffs approach, we weigh in on debates around expansion, fairness, and the ever-evolving landscape of representation in the sport.
In the NFL world, we take a closer look at quarterback challenges and team dynamics, from Kirk Cousins' limitations to the unpredictability of the Minnesota Vikings. We also delve into the importance of key positions beyond quarterbacks, sparking insightful debates about what truly drives a team's success. Whether it's exploring the NFC's enigmatic contenders or discussing potential coaching changes, this episode promises a blend of humor, passion, and perceptive analysis that every sports fan will relish.
Thank you. So how we doing everybody and welcome into Wisconsin Sports Time to go with Trage. I'm your host, trage coming back on a Sunday night, it's a good Sunday, it's a fantastic Sunday. That's a little cold outside here in the state of Wisconsin, no-transcript. So I mean we're probably doing a little bit better than Aaron, but that's okay. I mean we're back here tonight a bit. We got a holy crap. We got a crap load of things to talk about. That's why I got the full cast of characters in tonight. We got NBA, we have Badger football, women's volleyball we're going to talk about that here a little bit. We got a whole crap load of things to get into tonight and we can't wait to get there. So started with the fellas here. I got aaron here tonight and kyle first off.
Speaker 3:Aaron, how we doing tonight here doing well, like you said, yeah, it's blistery out here, but uh, you know I can't, I can't complain too much. You got you. Last time we did a podcast you showed me your backyard and it looked like the winter wonderland. So I, I don't have that, it's just, uh, I don't really want to be outside. So, uh, yeah, I'm doing all right, doing, doing pretty good, riding high off the sports weekend a little bit all right, all right, kyle.
Speaker 1:How are we doing on this fantastic sunday night?
Speaker 2:I mean I'm good, you know, watch, watch a lot of football. I'm watching the cows and southwicks. Now Cavs have the late lead, but you know there's still some time left. But yeah, I can't complain.
Speaker 1:I was just wondering. So I was watching Sunday Night Football here and the show came on with Carrie Underwood. She always sings the countdown song. What are they going to do when she's done? Like, who's going to be the next one? Who would be the next one to sing that? Do you think they stick country or do you think they throw some other like I don't know some pop star in there?
Speaker 3:I I could see a pop star because who was before carrie underwood, because she was there for a while, if I'm, if I don't, if I remember correctly there it has been a while with her.
Speaker 2:It has been a while To the point where I almost don't even remember who it was before her.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 3:Before Carrie Underwood Faith Hill, yeah, faith Hill.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's right, yes, okay, wow, that has been a hot minute.
Speaker 3:Yeah, 2003 to 2014. So I mean that's an 11 minute. Yeah, 2003 to 2014. So I mean that's an 11-year stretch right there, holy crap. And now going on 12 years with Carrie Underwood. I mean that's when they swapped them out last time, just about.
Speaker 1:It's a staple, though it's a staple, like she has to be there. If she's not there, it's not Sunday night, like that's just how it is. I could see, like chris stapleton, that'd be a cool, that'd be a cool one to have on sunday night, like I think he'd he'd what. Which one does he do? Does he do? Did he do monday night? He had one last season. I don't know if he still does it, but is that the monday night game or is that?
Speaker 3:uh, it's not thursday night there's gotta be right, gotta be monday. It's gotta be monday night, it'd got to be right, it's got to be Monday night, it's got to be Monday night.
Speaker 2:It'd have to be Monday night, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, his was pretty good. Maybe they just flip it over to him, I don't know. We'll see what happens there. So we got lots to get into. Let's dive in First off. Just wanted to mention we're not very educated in this, so we're not going to go too deep the bracket for the women's volleyball tournament coming up here, ncaa women's volleyball and the badgers got in there as a two seed kind of expected to most. I would say they were pretty high up in the rankings all season long, had those losses, some tuckled in there. Nebraska took care of them. Nebraska is in that same region. They got the one seat in there.
Speaker 1:They're going to be taking on florida a and m. To start it out, wisconsin will have Fairfield in that first-round matchup that will be coming up on the 5th. So that will be what Next. Is that going to be Friday, tomorrow's the 2nd, tuesday's the 3rd, wednesday's the 4th, the 5th, so Thursday? So they'll have that matchup on Thursday there and then they'll take on the winner of Tennessee and Georgia Tech and that'll be coming up the following day there. So it'll be a Thursday, friday, little turnaround there. If the Badgers get the win against Fairfield, they'll be taking on the winner of Georgia Tech and Tennessee there. So should be some pretty good matchups, pretty good matchups there. We're hoping for a good run there for Wisconsin's women's volleyball team and we'll see. Maybe they'll get Nebraska again, maybe they'll somehow pull off some crazy upset win there, because nebraska had their number in the regular season pretty, pretty handily, you know, three straight. So we'll see what happens there when they get them moving on there.
Speaker 1:But we do have one in the text in line here. We have one in the text in line for the takeover for carrie underwood laney wilson. That was our one on the text in line Lainey Wilson taking over for Carrie Underwood. I could see that one too. I could see that one too. I'm not a big Lainey Wilson fan, but I could definitely see that one happening. That's fair. That's fair. That's a fair assessment, fair assessment.
Speaker 2:I like that one, I like that one. That was a bold thing, y'all are in a music genre that I'm not too well versed in. You're more along I'm going to take my hat and say yeah, laney Wilson, why not? Let's do it.
Speaker 1:Jazz, jazz.
Speaker 3:I mean, this is the NFL we're talking about. Why not just take Taylor Swift up there in the booth, give her a mic and just call it? I mean you already got her there.
Speaker 1:Oh, Gandhi, that'd be rough.
Speaker 3:I'm not for it. Don't get me wrong.
Speaker 2:I don't want to endorse that let's trigger some fan bases, why not?
Speaker 3:Oh my God, Trigger just a lot of.
Speaker 1:We'd have boycotting again from the NFL there and Jory says, hello, Featherbrains lost. I don't even know what that means, but I feel like she's are you taking shots at us over there.
Speaker 2:That's her name for Ravens. She doesn't call them Ravens.
Speaker 1:Oh, I thought she was calling us Feather Brains.
Speaker 1:I was like what does that even mean? Like is she taking a shot at us right now? Like that's kind of hurtful, but I guess. So let's dive into it, let's dive into it, let's get. Let's get to what we came here for tonight. So wisconsin football we were talking about, you know, last, last time out, this debacle that was the minnesota game and what happened there, and we talked about a little bit more. What now? What happens next? Well, we're talking about, you know, we got, we're going to need a new offensive coordinator and I want to get into that in a minute here but defensive coordinator, I just wanted to go talk about the Badgers' numbers from this season and we'll make the decision for ourselves if Wisconsin should look at a new defensive coordinator.
Speaker 1:So the Badgers' defensive numbers this is Big Ten rankings. They were tied for 16th with touchdowns. So they had no touchdowns defensively on the season zero. They had four interceptions on the entire season. That was dead last. They were tied with purdue and that puts into perspective purdue being as good as they were, wisconsin being as good as they were. Four interceptions, four for four forced fumbles on the season. That was tied for 16th in the big 10 last in yards, tackle for loss, last in tackle for loss yards. They were second to last in sacks, with 17 sacks on the entire season. 17 sacks on the entire season, the team as a whole. They were 35 for 40, again in the red zone. So teams were 40,. 35 for 40 in the red zone against Wisconsin. Now that's field goals and you know touchdowns put together. But 35 for 40 in the red zone against Wisconsin. Now that's field goals and touchdowns put together, but 35 for 40. When they got down there, 25 touchdowns, 17 rushing touchdowns and 8 passing touchdowns they were 87.5% against them in the red zone. So that is an ungodly terrible number right there. You are not getting off the field very well. 165 rushing yards per game. They were second worst in the Big Ten against the run.
Speaker 1:I mean we could go through defensive metrics all day long, but those are some of the big ones. I'm looking at a team right now where I say to myself we can't turn teams over, we can't put pressure on them, we can't get sacks, we suck in the tackles for loss. I just read it there. They were last in yards. So that's behind Purdue, that's behind Rutgers, that's behind a bunch of bad teams in the big 10.
Speaker 1:I don't know how you look at this defense and say what he was drawing up was right. And you know we sit here and, yes, talent was an issue. There was, there was a lack of talent. There was definitely a lack of talent on this Badger defense and it glared, it showed. But you're telling me that that defense had just as good or worse guys than what were on Rutgers defense, purdue's defense. I mean we could go through the bottom barrel of the Big Ten UCLA. Some of those other teams were saying that they're in that same mark as them. That's rough. I mean, aaron, looking at those numbers, I I don't see how you go into an off season where you're already changing up the offense. Anyways, you're bringing a new offensive coordinator. Why do you not start fresh on the defense?
Speaker 3:yeah, it's hard to make an argument the other way. That's, that's the thing there, because I mean you're reading all these metrics they're're dead last in this, tied for last in that, you know, next to last, and like it's not so much. Okay, they get pass rush but their run defense sucks, you know. Or their pass defense, you know, is good but they don't have run, like it's just all over the board. There's too much to fix, I think. And like no matter, you know, if you're a middle of the pack team, like you know, like in Iowa, or like a Northwestern, like usually those teams can at least stop. Ok, they're a staple to stop the run or they're a staple to stop the pass, like to not really.
Speaker 3:Like you know, we've talked a lot about Wisconsin not having offensive identity. It's kind of the same thing. On the defensive side it's like, ok, well, you know you go up against Wisconsin. You know earlier in the season they were, they were decent against the pass. I mean, I know, coming into the Penn state game they were, they were decent against the pass, and then it kind of, I mean, tapered off. You know the last couple of games of the of the season, that type of thing. So it's just yeah, I, I, I think you got to reset it, I think you got to just start fresh. I mean, you, you look to nail the hire, that's the thing. So it's one of those deals where how do you make a case that what they did was okay, we're going to build on that, like, what do you have to build on? That's the problem.
Speaker 1:Yep, yep, kyle, what do you think? I mean these metrics? They are terrible. I mean they just look bad On paper. What we saw, it was bad all the way around.
Speaker 2:Yeah, bad on paper what we saw, it was bad all the way around. Yeah, I mean, when you mentioned you're giving up 160 yards on the ground, like that speaks to like coaching technique, toughness, like that's all things that I can't justify bringing back a defensive staff. If I have to question toughness of the players, like I said, some of that is ability, of course, and yeah, you know you hope to fix that with recruiting and all that kind of stuff as well, but that number just popped out too much for me to think that somebody on defense did their job well enough for me to go. Yeah, come back and give it another shot, another shot. And yeah, like Aaron said, if you are going to replace the staff, then your coach better nail it, because if you're the coach you are overseeing all of this, fingers have to point at you as well. So if you keep your job and you're replacing coordinators and if you don't get the second person correct, that means you're part of the problem. You're not picking the right guys and I guess your input isn't really working, or you're just putting too much faith in them, and I feel like the times I saw them play, it was like they'd give you a little bit like a glimmer and then it kind of bottoms out and falls out and you know that's how they were losing games.
Speaker 2:It's just like you might be at the point where you just rip the band-aid off, clean house and start fresh, because if you are wisconsin, you're looking at the big 10. You can't have two anymore seasons where you're looking to your left and right. It's like you're down there with Purdue and you know Rutgers and some of these schools, not to throw shade on any of them, but like you want to be. If you're not Ohio State, if you're not Penn State, you're not Oregon. Like you need to be kind of in that second tier. Yeah, if you're down towards the bottom, like that's a problem. Because I would say that about wisconsin, nebraska, I would say that for both of them, like ruckers, they've kind of struggled forever. As long as I can remember ruckers in any sport they haven't been that good. So if they're at the bottom, cool, for do probably not. Since, like I don't know, drew breeze, kyle, wh, lorton, like what's purdue really done? Like, yeah, they're at the bottom, who cares?
Speaker 1:but if you're a coach again.
Speaker 2:Well, it's like you're wisconsin, you're down there, it's like that's something's wrong.
Speaker 1:Yeah, somewhere somebody's just dropped the ball well, and you know you can look at it a lot of different ways. Right, they brought in new offensive coordinator, new defensive coordinator and they try to flip the entire philosophy, everything that you want to do on this team, the offense flipped from a power run offense to now where this air raid offense you don't have the playmakers in the room to do that. That's why Phil Longo cost himself a job. He didn't adapt to his surroundings. Trestle, he might be a good defensive coordinator in the right system with the right scheme, but when you don't have the playmakers, sometimes you have to adjust to that. You have to adapt, and I feel like these guys aren't adapting to those little things at this point. So for me, I'm moving on. I am moving on from Trestle. I think you, like you guys said, and like I'm saying, you're already starting new. You might as well just go all the way Start new across the board. You got a new defensive coordinator, new offensive coordinator, start new, Go into next season and hopefully, right, hopefully, you see a little bit better there on the flip side.
Speaker 1:But we did see a mention I've seen it across Twitter and everything else and it was Carter Smith, the recent recruit coming into the Badgers there. The four-star recruit quarterback, his dad. He tweeted out Go-Go, which is Brennan Marion, down at UNLV. That's his offense that he runs is the Go-Go offense is what it's called there. And you know Wikipedia they updated his you know job title to he's the offensive coordinator for the Badgers. We know how much Wikipedia is trustworthy at anything these days. But there is these rumblings out there and hearing Carter Smith's dad say something about it, carter Smith's following him now on Twitter. You have Luke Fickle on Twitter following him. It's like all these Badger guys are now following Brennan Marion there. So it's like, okay, maybe, maybe, just maybe there's some behind-the-scenes stuff going on we don't know about yet, but who knows, you know possibly.
Speaker 1:But I did see a lot of Badger fans out there. They were talking about this go-go offense and it's not going to work in the Big Ten, it's not right for the Big Ten and all this kind of stuff. And I was sitting there and I was like why not right? So I went on. You know, I was going on Google and I was like what the heck is the go-go offense? Because I had to figure it out for myself. I'm like what is go-go offense? Essentially what it is two backs in the backfield. They line up essentially on a line with the quarterback there, generally to his right. You have a double back out there, so it's two backs. It's a power run offense with a vertical. It's a vertical shot kind of philosophy in there. You always want to have the ability for the vertical shot. It's a triple option.
Speaker 1:He went through and he did a full YouTube video on what was this offense and everything like that essentially and what he was saying was you don't really have to have a quarterback that can run. He doesn't have to do all this crazy stuff. He's just got to have the ability to be efficient. He's got to have the ability to distribute, run a little bit. You know he's not asking for a Lamar Jackson or anything like that. He's asking for, like an average runner at best, like a Drew Aller, like a Will Howard those guys can run a little bit those kinds of quarterbacks there. His motto is basically how you play without the football says how much you love your teammates Running off guys blocking downfieldfield, opening it up for other guys. It's a real. I mean, it's a two-minute pace offense, so it's always fast. You want to play fast, you want to get the options in there and everything like that. So it's a really interesting offense that he would bring in there.
Speaker 1:And I just wanted like, yeah, I see a lot of people they're like this would never work in Wisconsin and everything like that, why not? I don't see why it wouldn't work. It's a power run offense with a lot of option in it. I really think it would work in Wisconsin. I don't think it would hurt anything at this point. We thought the air raid would work. So I mean we open to try it. Open to try it at this point. And he's been fantastic with UNLV at this point here he's got them chasing bowl titles right now. So I mean I don't think it would hurt at all. Yeah, I don't think it would hurt at all.
Speaker 1:Also, leon Lowry did announce he's going to be transferring out of Wisconsin. There I believe Snowden did too. So we're going to see over the next coming days probably a lot of guys from Wisconsin entering the transfer portal. So we'll see. Leon Lowry is not much of a loss. He committed to the Badgers, decommitted from the Badgers, committed back to the Badgers and now he's back out in the transfer portal. So I mean, whatever, see you later. Like you had 16 tackles, I think, on the entire season this year, like we'll get by without you, like sorry to see you go. Maybe you could have been something, but we'll see on the flip side there. So that's about it.
Speaker 1:Badger talk for the day. I just wanted to get into that defensive coordinator talk there a little bit. But hey, let's get to the craziness. That was the college football weekend, because there was a lot of crazy all over the place. We got some comments coming in there.
Speaker 1:John is in the chat. He's telling us quack, quackack them. Oregon Ducks there. James Franklin going to Franklin almost reminds me of Ryan Day 2.0. Aaron, hold on, hold on, just relax. Anthony says can we give Ashton Gentry the Heisman? And then he also went on to say Ohio State head coach Day needs to win big or he's getting fired. Okay, let's start with that game. Let's start there, aaron, we'll get to the quack, quack and everything like that. We'll get there. We'll get to that one there. But I want to start with that Michigan and Ohio State game because I don't think anybody any of us really saw that final coming there. Michigan gets to win 13-10. And if you shut the game off right when it was over. You missed the whole game because the craziness happened after the final whistle. So michigan goes. They try to plant the flag at midfield. Jack sawyer, I believe his name is jack sawyer, isn't it? What the heck is his name there?
Speaker 2:jack sawyer he takes exception.
Speaker 1:he doesn't do anything in the game, but he takes exception to it. So he comes back out. The Ohio State team comes back out. We got punches thrown. They were telling me pushing and shoving on ESPN. That's a whole lot of BS. They're like guys come away bloodied from pushing and shoving. I'm like, yeah, okay, pushing and shoving led to bloody guys, all right, but I mean just a mess. Police were involved. There was pepper spray involved in this. This was ridiculous.
Speaker 1:I mean, okay, so Ryan Day I don't even know what he was doing he goes over to the tunnel and then he sees Sawyer come over and he's getting held back by, I believe, one of the assistant coaches and he's screaming and Ryan Day's just like watching him, like I'm watching that and this is a head coach who, like, doesn't really have control. Doesn't really have control Because if these are my guys, if these are my guys going down there, I am going down there and I might not be able to stop them, but I'm pulling as many of my guys back as I possibly can and I'm like go, go to locker room. We're done, go to locker room. And I'm at least putting an effort in to do that. I know they're hot, I know you probably can't do anything, but it speaks volumes to me as a head coach who's trying to protect his players versus letting them run down there and just start this whole fiasco on the field there. So I don't like what Ryan did. I mean, yes, he doesn't probably want to get hurt himself in this whole fiasco, but I did not like that scene there. And I mean for Ohio State.
Speaker 1:I don't know what's going to come of this, but the NCAA is probably going to watch that video. They're probably going to suspend some guys. They're going to get suspended for that first game in the playoffs there, most likely. And if they don't, that's ridiculous because you had police involved. You have all this other crap involved in this. There has got to be guys who are getting suspended off of this, and I mean michigan doesn't really care. They're in some meaningless bowl game. But for ohio state you have a playoff game coming up next. You don't have a big 10 championship game, where that's the game they could have been suspended for. Now you have that first round game with whoever in that. I mean wherever it's. You know whoever they're playing. It's gonna hurt. I I think this will hurt. I think jack sawyer might be involved in that. I don't know if it's for a half or whatever it is that they're going to suspend them. But I mean, kyle, starting with you, I mean you saw this fiasco play out. What were your thoughts after this mess?
Speaker 2:I mean, look as somebody who did not go to a big-name school or anything like that, I didn't notice how they got down. I was kind of watching like, okay, I see, rivalry, we're throwing down. I was kind of watching like, okay, I see, rivalry, we're throwing down the flag planting. To begin with, I don't have a problem with it. You know how you stop the flag planting, you win the game. So if someone wants to plant a flag on your field, you probably have to grit your teeth let them do it. Then you want to shove some people around a little bit to show that's your own field, knock yourself out, not say it has to go to the point where you need police and pepper spray, because at that point it's like it's a ride on the field, like that's not a good look for the school, or maybe it is. They might get some recruits off of it. Come on in, you never know, might have a fight, like Jory said, might turn into a fight night. You get some crazy old linemen who'll be down for it, because we all know old linemen. Something's loose up in the end with old linemen, because they're all kind of crazy it's. I get it Because if I was one of those players and I saw an opposing team playing the flag. I wouldn't feel right about it. But the Ryan Day stuff. I agree with you. You're the head coach. You're supposed to do everything you can to keep your players out of this because once again, maybe if you did your job better, the players would have done their job better and it wouldn't have happened.
Speaker 2:I get the sore loser mentality because you're Ohio State. This is a loss that does not look good for you, especially this late in the year. I still think they probably will be a playoff team, but not the best look for the committee. I mean, I'm sure we'll probably touch on some of the other ones that happened around the country as well, because I do think it's interesting now how the NCAA does handle this with everything that did happen for these potential playoff teams. I do think it's some interesting conversation the committee has to have with some of these teams, like where do you kind of slot them? Because if you're Ohio State and you're in that room, how far do you drop them? Because they lost to a Michigan team that wasn't that good this year and I mean a lot of people were looking at Michigan's coach, but this is a game where they stepped up and played really well.
Speaker 2:I think all in all it's not the best look for college football in a sense. But then part of me is like I kind of like this though it's rivalry week for a reason, like the games are supposed to mean something, so that part I like that the schools kind of get chippy. But I don't like when it gets to the point, like I said, where the police are involved. It's like the tough line to kind of go through when you're talking about college sports, because same thing like college basketball, I love when you see like duke carolina, you know, uh, tyler hansbrook like going in there bloody nose, like that is something that college sports try to set themselves, differently from pro sports, like the emotions and everything actually matter. But you'd never want like it to get to a point where, like law enforcement stuff were involved. So it's, you know it's, it's tough, it's tough so I do.
Speaker 1:Before you go, aaron, I'm gonna let you go here, but uh, john says possible penalties in the future for planting flag. In my opinion, my opinion, I like it. You only see it on rival weekend. There are probably five games that done. That keeps the rival that much better. I agree, I do, yes, but at some point, at some point.
Speaker 1:Even Michigan, even you know, I can't remember Michigan's head coach off the top of my head now I keep forgetting his name. I can see his face Sharon Moore. Sharon Moore, at some point even you were like enough, like this isn't even worth it for us, like I get you guys want to plant this flag right now, but enough is enough, let's just get our guys out of here. You know, and you send your assistant coaches, whoever it is, and I know assistant coaches came out of their bloodied and everything. You can only control so much. But I mean there had to have been a point where you were like just get the hell off the field, we're done with this. We're done Like just.
Speaker 1:And if it gets to pepper spray, like you know, you crossed a line that I wouldn't be surprised if they get rid of it completely. And they, they tell you that if you do something like this, whoever does it will be suspended, like after, because we're going to talk about even more of them, but we counted four of them at least where there were guys trying to plant flags and they got fights going on, and I know Arizona State was the trident out there. But I mean you get to a point where, oh, that's the one, florida, florida, florida, florida State. But you get to a point where now, now, after the Michigan one, you got police involved, you have pepper spray involved, now it becomes a crime. Now it's crossing that line where now the NCAA has got to step in and they got to do something drastic to stop it all from happening, right, because they can't afford.
Speaker 1:If what? If you know one of these ohio state guys I don't know something crazy, right, he's like allergic to pepper spray or something, and you know now he's like I don't know his eye, he's completely blind I don't know just something stupid but you could have.
Speaker 1:There could be so much more that comes out of this in courtrooms and everything like that. I just I don't know. I feel they're going to step in and they're going to. I don't know how you outlaw it, but I just got that feeling that they're going to do something crazy. Something crazy like that. Aaron, what are your thoughts coming out of that Ohio State, michigan one? I mean, that was out of all the fights, out of all the disasters. I think that one took the cake. But like, what were your thoughts after that whole thing happened there?
Speaker 3:took the cake, but, like, what were your thoughts after that whole thing happened there? Um so, to touch on it as like a whole, like Kyle hit on a lot of points that I I certainly agree with. There is, I mean, the thing I'll say about Michigan, ohio State. Like you can't, I mean that's up there with, like Red Sox Yankees. That's up there with, like I mean, those teams, despite like they hate each other, like I've seen clips of Michigan fans going to Ohio State and getting pelted by beer cans. Like it is. It's different, like that is, and like the city of Philadelphia is known to be like hostile, but that rivalry is, I mean, love it or hate it. It is probably the best college football rivalry there.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, 100%.
Speaker 3:I mean it is. I mean it's nasty, it's physical, like I've seen those teams like when they were at the big house and they're basically congregating in that space, which I think that's probably a bad idea, because now you're in a hallway, basically and you're right up against each other. Talk about expletives. You will hear more F-words in there than any show you'll ever watch, ever. Those guys want to kill each other. Basically it's it's. But I mean, on the flip side of that, maybe I'm an animal for looking at it Like I love it because it's like that is real, like that's real. There's NFL rivalries. I think they really try and make out of thin air or like you know how many times have we talked about on here, guys, where it's, it's the Yankees Astros rivalry Like that, that is doesn't even hold a flame to something like this. This is, like you know, Michigan's coming on the field, ohio state standing right on where Michigan comes onto the field and they're talking trash Like there's no, excuse me, there's no break to. Just this is a violent rivalry. So I mean we saw it years ago when Baker Mayfield planted the flag you know he's a member of Oklahoma. That's not a rivalry game, but I mean you beat Ohio State at home and the whole Ohio State thing too. I think a lot of this has to do with the fact they dot the I, which I mean. I think it's stupid, but Ohio State people will tell you it's the best thing in the world. So it's stupid, but Ohio State people will tell you it's the best thing in the world. So it's like the Dallas Cowboys star I remember TO posing on the Dallas Cowboys. You're trying to send a message basically like F you, we beat you on your home field, get over it. We've won the last four games. I'm a proponent of like okay, ohio State, you want to cry about it, you want to make a big deal out of it, you want to fight everybody on the field. Why don't you win one out of four and then talk, you know, and you see these clips of Jack Sawyer like losing his mind, like he's a 10-year-old and I'm like dude, I get it, he made a big play, he's one guy, he's a linebacker, but it makes ohio state in my mind look very corny. It's like I get the pushback. I'm not saying that they should have just went to the locker room. I probably kyle said I probably would feel the same way, or pushing and shoving was needed, like I, I a proponent of just not letting somebody walk all over you, like that. But I mean, yeah, it's.
Speaker 3:I don't want them to outlaw it, I think it's a. It's a I don't know if I want to say it's a great thing, but it kind of like. It's like the emotions of something like that is like like that was the whole talk all week, like nothing in the NFL could have outshined that, because that was just like that was craziness. But I mean I don't want them to outlaw, like planting the flag, cause I think that is just like savage. That's the most savage thing you can do, especially a rivalry. Now, if you're taking it to the extreme, like if Iowa State played I don't know, oregon and they're planting a flag, it becomes like an every week thing. That's different. But in a rivalry game, I totally understand it.
Speaker 3:And Trajan, to touch on the last thing there with Ryan Day, yeah, I mean that was just like dude, like where's the leadership?
Speaker 3:Where is like the backbone of your program?
Speaker 3:Because everybody's out there, you know, losing their mind and I get that.
Speaker 3:But at some point I think I think they brought in like there was another flag, like there was two flags out there at one point, and then it got crazy again, like that's when all the pepper spread, because at first it was kind of controlled chaos and then it like just broke out again and it was like wow, like this is full on like craziness, like just broke out again and it was like wow, like this is full on like craziness.
Speaker 3:But yeah, I mean why Ryan Day? Like I don't think Nick Saban would have and Nick Saban is not a big guy, but I think if Nick Saban was the coach of Ohio State on Saturday no-transcript shock I I got my ass beat again like I'm oh and though for the last four and I'm like I'm just defeated and and that's not an excuse like your players are out there, you got to get control of the situation. But I don't want the ncaa to say this is the last. I understand why they would, but I really don't want that to be the case no, and I don't want them to either.
Speaker 1:Like I, I don't want them to at all. But I just think, because it got to this point, now they're going to draw lines and I don't think nick saban's guys would have done it, because I think Nick Saban's guys were so disciplined that after they lost, like that, they would have got back to the locker room because Nick Saban was going to rip a new one. Like I just think that's how he is, like he'd rip a new one in there. But I mean, that's different programs, different times. So it's it definitely sucks. It definitely was a. It was a crappy ending and I think I can't remember who said it. After the game they ended up interviewing I think it was Mullins, the one running back from Michigan. He's like this is just a terrible look on what this game was, because that was a hard fought, hard nose, like a great Big Ten football game. Like that almost reminded me of what Big Ten football was. It was not this crazy offense, it was just back and forth, like defense was the name of the game, it was both ways and you know teams were struggling to get yards. Like that was a great big 10 football game that was ruined by 10 minutes, 10 minutes after the game. That's what ruined the whole thing, and now it might. You know all this flag plant and bull crap and everything else in between. It might ruin all that too, right? I mean, I just don't know how the NCAA doesn't step in and do something, like the NCAA loves to stick their nose in these kinds of things. I just feel like they're going to do something, I don't know what, and I don't know how. You suspend guys off this, because I don't know if there's a camera angle or anything that tells you certain players did this or anything like that. So we'll see. They're going to have a lot of. There's a lot of videos, though. So we'll see. They're going to have a lot of. There's a lot of videos, though. So they're going to have a lot of videos to piece together the picture and see what all happened, what transpired, and they have police officers for that too. So we'll see what happens with that there.
Speaker 1:In the comments we do have Jory said yeah, auburn, alabama, they got in a fight too on the sideline there about. I think it was in the third quarter there. There was a little scuffle on the sideline there too. So I mean, auburn and bambo were going at it, and that's a hard fought rivalry too between those two teams. And john did say honestly, if they get uh fine school will say, okay, it was worth it, just like every other school knows the fines come in when goalposts are torn down or thrown in the river. It's pennies on dollars over possible more recruits. I, I agree, and that's why I I really do think the think the NCAA does something a little bit different. I think they try to force the law here. I think they're going to try to put their foot down and say, hey, just so none of this happens ever again. This is what? So I don't know, we'll see what happens there.
Speaker 2:But I think if you're going to do that, you put it on the coaches. Yeah, make the coaches do their job and, you know, take control of their kids. Like I don't know a problem if you know the schools meet in the middle, they're jawing at each other. You know, shove or two here or there, but it's like at a certain point you and like the 30 billion coaches on the sideline have to be able to separate the teams and be like okay, you had your moment. Go to the locker room like yeah, I don't think it's that hard to think that they can't.
Speaker 1:There's gotta be some guys who have the headspace too, where you like walk up to your offensive lineman and you're like, okay, you, you, you get whoever get them back, take them back to the locker room. Like you cannot tell me that there was 53 guys out there and all 53 of them were just ballistic, like jack was, like sawyer was there, like no, like there had to have been some level-headed dudes. Where you're telling them get in there. Like even ryan day, ryan day find the guys that are walking back to the locker room, that are like trying to just get off the field and say, okay, guys like go get him, pull him back. Like get him out of there, don't instigate, don't do anything, just get in there, get him out of there, let's get back to the locker room, let's get this thing over with. Just something, just do something. If you're Ryan Day in that situation and that goes back to Anthony's question there I think he had one earlier about I lost it. Now Something about Ryan Day there, but coaching for his job he lost to.
Speaker 1:Michigan again.
Speaker 3:I think it's somewhere. It's somewhere. It's almost like if he doesn't go on to, I'm not going to say, win the national, like if they don't make noise in the playoff, he should be done. That was going to be my question. Yep, that was going to be.
Speaker 1:My question was if Ryan Day, let's just say and I mean, for Pete's sake, maybe some guys get suspended here for the first game of the playoffs but are wherever they're going to be, but let's just say Ryan Day doesn't get them past the first game. Ryan Day's got a pretty good record at the University of Ohio State. I think he's 66 and 10. I think he's pretty. I mean, the record looks good, right, but those 10 losses, right. You're looking at the, the Michigan games, you're looking at some of those other games that he's lost in the playoffs and everything like that.
Speaker 1:Do you move on for Ryan Day? Because there always is the saying is it greener on the other side? Is it gonna be greener on the other side? Because you've had two head coaches now and I know talent will still come right you're still gonna get talent. You still have money. If you're Ohio State, you have a 20 million dollar roster right now. You're still gonna to get talent. You still have money. If you're Ohio State, you have a $20 million roster right now. You're still going to be able to get players. The question, though if you're bringing a coach who can't coach even the talent, then what you know Ryan Day can at least get him to a 10-2 record. He can get him to the playoff We've seen this this year but he can't win that big game. Is that going to be enough for you to fire him?
Speaker 2:I mean it might depend like who he loses to and how they lose, because obviously you know, with the 12-12 playoff all these schools are going to be good. But if they show up and they get blown out like 34-0, then yeah, you got to move on from them. But if they go up against a top-tier team and it's a hard fight they lose like 27-24,. Could he argue to stay another year? Maybe, but his record against Michigan has to be held against him at some point. Like you don't take that job.
Speaker 2:To lose to Michigan, that's crazy. That'd be like I take the Alabama job. I can't beat Auburn, I can't beat Georgia At some point, why do I have the job? So, yeah, he probably needs to win like two games in the playoff to get this kind of behind him and at least you can say, yeah, he may struggle against Michigan, but if we get into the playoffs at least he can beat Texas or he can beat a Notre Dame or somebody like that. Yeah, I think he needs to win two games at least in the playoffs to even think about coming back.
Speaker 1:So Kyle's saying two games, Aaron, what do you think?
Speaker 3:I think that's the bare minimum too. I really do. I think if you go in and win one game and then you come out and you either choke down, a lot of the criticism against Michigan was they have the playmakers. They're usually a track team or an NFL ready receiving. Like they have some of the best receivers in the country every year. Book it. Like it doesn't matter if Urban Meyer's there, ryan Day, it doesn't matter if Kyle was there. Like the best receivers will come to Ohio State. So it's, I think, at some point. Yeah, like Kyle said, I mean, if you go 11-1 every year and let's say you lose to Michigan, you know four out of five years fans aren't going to carry your 11-1. They're going to think why can't this guy beat Michigan? Like that's a program that I can at least respect their standards right. Like their standards are some of the highest in the country, and for good reason. Like they're a storied program. I can't stand them, but they're a storied program. They win a storied program. They, they win, they, they know how to win, they, they. That winning is expect. It's not debatable there, it's okay. How many national championships can we win? How many big 10 championships like it's not, you know, can we win eight games? It's not, can we? You know, penn State for a while it's okay. Well, at least we only lost two games like that. There it's like undefeated or bust, basically. Um, and he like the fact he can't beat Michigan. I mean, he's getting clowned by everybody on that one, and for good reason like this.
Speaker 3:This was almost a tipping point to me, because Michigan's coming in six and five, I mean they're 20 point underdogs. You got to find a way to win. I don't care, like I'm not saying any given Saturday that can happen, sure, but this was the game where Ryan Day could have shut those haters up and said you know what, I can't beat Michigan. It's been a rough stretch, but we found a way today. And then, you know, part of the game plan goes. It felt like the game plan got away from them. You know they're not thrown to their playmakers, which doesn't make any like he's. Just, I don't know. You know, obviously all these like Penn State haters come out and say he's James Franklin 2.0. I mean, I might rather have Ryan Day, honestly, but I don't know, maybe Ryan Day goes to a school that's not as good at Ohio State and maybe he's not that good of a coach.
Speaker 3:Like it's one of those, like you know, it's one of those things you can debate for the rest of time. Like if you put this guy at this school, will he do good? Like could what if Kirk Singati was at Ohio State, like we? I mean, that's just one of those things. We don't know because he's not. But it's like I think this, I, even if he wins two games and they get blown out the third game, like I, I don't know if he's safe at this planet, I don't, I wouldn't blame them if they moved on, because that's four straight losses to Michigan.
Speaker 3:Like that's not something they do. And like it's big shoes at Ohio State and you're coming in after Urban Meyer, who had massive success. You haven't had the same success. So if they fire him, would I be like, would I think that's the wrong move for them? Probably not. I mean, like you said, trajan, I mean it might be. You know the grass might not be greener, but it might, because I'm telling you that school is just loaded with talent. So it's like if you get a guy just decent, I think sometimes I mean they can run the table. You can't tell me some guys they bring in aren't going to beat Michigan. I think he might be at the end of his rope there. I really think.
Speaker 1:Next season. That's a dogfight of a schedule. That's a dogfight of a schedule. I see that they have Texas, they have Michigan, they have Penn State, they have okay, wisconsin doesn't count, but they have some tough teams right off the bat next season and John says they're they're owing two against the ducks and we're heavy favorites in both of them. Seems like oregon is going to stay on track and michigan getting a five-star quarterback next year.
Speaker 1:If you don't get fired now, how long is the leash? I, the leash ain't long, it can't be long, it cannot be long at all. And I think you know we, we're thinking okay, I'm thinking from a Wisconsin standpoint. Right, if I have a coach who's 66 and 10 overall in his tenure at my school, at Wisconsin, I'm like, yeah, like I'm cooking, like that's good. But when you're Ohio State and like Aaron you alluded to, like Kyle you alluded to, you have all the weapons, you have the wide receiver room, you have the running backs, you have offensive linemen, you have a great defense, you have all these pieces and continuously, year after year, you can't figure out how to win close games. Right, I didn't. You know what.
Speaker 1:We talked about it in our preview show and we said we wouldn't be surprised if michigan, ohio state was a close game. We said we wouldn't be surprised because it's a rivalry game, like it's going to be close. But we, we both said Ohio state will come out on the other side because they have the quarterback or at least a quarterback, right. I mean, I thought that war is his name, warren's for Michigan. He plays all right. I mean he's all right. I think it's Warren's now is the quarterback. But I mean he's okay, he's not, he's not good, he's not great. So we just said, you know, quarterback play, will Howard's better than what they got? I think that'll be the difference. How do you come out of there? 13 to 10, like that's. I mean michigan's got a good defense and they stepped up. They stepped up big time in that game and they were disruptive and they did their thing. But that hurts, that hurts a program right there, and that's that's.
Speaker 1:The big thing is, yes, you're 66 and 10, but what's the record in big games? What's the record in these kinds of games? Because if you're ohio state, it don't matter if you go 10 and 2 every season like wisconsin. If we went 10 and 2 every season, heck, yeah, we'll take it, we'll take it to the bank. I'll go to the rose bowl every year. I don't care. Like I'm good with not making the college football playoff and going 10 and 2, like I can live with that, but ohio state can't.
Speaker 1:Ohio state can't because that means that there are Oregon's better this season, they have a better record. Penn State's better this season, they have a better record. We could go Indiana technically has a better record, like you're going through a list of teams who have a better record than what Ohio State has. But if you put talent to talent, is that talent that much different? No, I wouldn't say Penn State has, you know, position to position, that much better talent than what Ohio State has. Or Indiana. We saw that. I mean they blew Indiana out, so that doesn't count. But Oregon, would you say Oregon has that much more talent. I don't know, but I mean, end of the day, with that amount of talent, you have to win football games, you have to find a way to win football games.
Speaker 1:And he hasn't. I really do think. Yes, it is a short leash there. Uh, anthony says sunday night football going on right now cmc's in the blue tent. Nothing new I that's not really not really breaking news there, like it's where he, it's where he's been. I mean it sucks, it really does, because the 49ers we talked about it on snap counts before there, kyle, I mean they are just a beat-up team right now and it is is, wow, just rough, just rough sledding right now for the 49ers. But let's get in. Let's look at the rest of this college football slate. So you know what Texas got the win over Texas, a&m Penn State with a big win. Notre Dame got the win. Syracuse upsets Miami. So that changes up the ACC championship game there. Does anybody want to pull up what the championship games are going to look like? The big ones at least?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I can get that BYU did survive against Houston, unlv got the win against Nevada I believe they'll be in the Mountain West Championship now, and then Illinois got the win against Northwestern. And then we see John did say Big Ten finds Michigan and Ohio State $100,000 each for their role in the melee. Is that going to be it, though? Is the question. Is that going to be it? Is it just a fine, or is it players getting suspended? I don't know. We'll see what happens on the flip side of that. And Jory says, the natty game against Bama tells you everything you need to know about Day 100%, 100%. Ryan. Day, he's not a big game coach. He's not a. You have big game coaches and I don't believe he's a big game coach. So do we have the championship games pulled up?
Speaker 3:yep, yeah, I can give them to you all right, let's see what we got um, let's start. I guess I'm just kind of all over the place here, but acc championship uh, clemson against smU, then we go big. This is just the order. I'm pulling them up in Big Ten Championship, penn State, oregon, sunbelt Championship, if anybody cares, marshall and Louisiana.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 3:The Raging Cajuns baby. They're actually like kind of a staple now. It's you know kind of a consistent program there. Yeah, sec Championship Georgia. You know kind of a consistent program there. But yeah, um, sec championship georgia. The front, I mean trajan, we were, we were, uh, you know, going out after the show like watching that georgia, georgia. I mean they are so lucky, honestly. They are so lucky, but I mean they won, they found a way, but I mean they found a way.
Speaker 1:That's all you can say yes um, yeah, but georgia tex.
Speaker 3:that should be at least interesting, though. Maac Championship Ohio against Miami of Ohio, Big 12, Iowa State versus Arizona State. American Athletic Championship, Tulane versus Army, which respect.
Speaker 1:Army wins that we could be seeing Army in the college football playoff.
Speaker 3:That's what we want. That would be cool. I mean now we're getting, like you know, kind of all over the place. But the Mountain West, unlv, I mean you mentioned, you know, the offensive coordinator there, the. What did you say?
Speaker 1:the go-go offense, right the go-go offense, and it go-goes.
Speaker 3:Is looking to keep up the go-go against Boise State.
Speaker 1:They could be a college football playoff team they could be If they win that game. That gets them in Boise State probably is out.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that is a maker. I mean I guess you expect Boise State, but I mean anything can happen, right, and that is a meaningful game for the playoff, like you said there. And then Conference USA Western Kentucky versus Jacksonville State. So nice to see that Jacksonville State, even without Deion, has found a way not to be trash, at the very least.
Speaker 1:A lot of good conference championship games there. Lots of good games.
Speaker 3:Colorado's out, oh shoot, you got it. We got our fact checker on the show. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:We got to have one.
Speaker 3:We got to have one Keeps us in line. It is garbage, though maybe that makes my.
Speaker 1:That could be, they could be, they could be, but colorado is out. The big 12. I think they should just have a four-team playoff in the big 12 and just put those four at the top in, because that was a disastrous. They showed the scenario for that big 12 and it was like cincinnati loses and this team loses and it's's like then this team gets in and I'm like how is that even possible? Like, why does it matter if Cincinnati loses to get this team in? Like I don't know, I was lost, I was lost, but I know Colorado needed BYU to lose to Houston and then Colorado would have got. I don't know, it was a disastrous little track there. But Colorado's out of the college football playoffs. So little track there. But colorado's out of the college football playoffs. So that's okay. If everybody out there hates dion, you're good, he's out, but I mean, everybody loves the publicity that they get out there.
Speaker 2:So you know it's, yeah, and he did say all of his guys will play in the bowl game I like that though that is respect I do like that.
Speaker 1:Um, I wish more coaches would do that. I really do, and that's why my my like for bo nicks went up a little bit, because he played in a meaningless bowl game I can't remember who the heck they were playing that time. I was in his senior year when he was going to go. He was going to go to the draft and everything, but he played in the bowl game when nobody else did and I was like that's respect. Like this guy has absolutely zero college football playoff to play for anymore. Like nothing, and he's still playing in this game. Like that's respect. I like that. So I wish more coaches would do that. I like that. Deion's doing that there. So that's good. To the comments here we got a flood middle here. Anthony says do you agree with the AP poll? Is there a team you think should be in the top 12 in the playoffs? I guess I would have to look at the AP poll.
Speaker 1:Have you heard some of the changes they may make to the playoffs. This whole thing is just dumb.
Speaker 2:So technically they can't change anything until 2026. But the SEC and the Big Ten want it so that the two teams that face off in the conference championship automatically get in. I think that's wild to throw that out there. So basically they would say, oh, georgia's playing Texas in the SEC, who cares who wins? Both of them automatically get into the playoff. I think if you're doing stuff like that, you got to expand it again, because I don't think runner-ups should have automatic spots. I think if you're doing stuff like that, you got to expand it again Cause I I I don't think runner ups should have automatic spots. I mean, for the sec it's going to happen anyway, but I think that's crazy. I think some people have said like it could go from 12 to 14, which then I guess you're probably given your one and two, a buy or something like I don't know.
Speaker 1:But Screw it 64 team playoff, everybody I would not hate 16.
Speaker 2:I think 16 is a good round number. Now, if you do 16, I think you have to increase the group of five from one team to two. Got to give them a second one.
Speaker 1:This is what I say and this is what I've said to the March Madness bracket expanding and everything like that. Getting into it's a prestigious thing, it is. So when we keep expanding the bracket for March Madness or we keep expanding this, you're just letting more teams and more teams and more teams in. I think you say screw it, you're not the best, we want the best. If you played the best in your conference schedule, if you went and won your big 10, your big 12 or big 10 championship, bam, you're in runner up. I don't care like why should my runner up get in if, let's just say they stunk in non-conference, like they lost three games in non-conference, but they roll into this big 12 championship game or the let's just go SEC. They roll in the SEC championship game with three losses non-conference, but they were undefeated in the conference. And they get in there and they lay an egg and now we're like, oh well, we should throw them in. We should throw them in.
Speaker 1:I know I, this is I, we're crossing, we're going to cross so many lines here and it sucks because you keep, every year there's going to be one team who's pissed off, one team right, last year it was Florida state. They're like why aren't we in? Right, we lost our quarterback, but why aren't we in? You were probably going to get steamrolled, but that's besides the point this season. I have problems with this too, because Alabama I don't believe Alabama is one of the 12 best teams. I don't. I don't think they are South Carolina didn't South Carolina beat Alabama? Didn't they beat them? Head-to-head?
Speaker 2:I think that's going to be an interesting conversation to have, because if Texas blows out Georgia, no, they lost. Hold on.
Speaker 1:South Carolina lost to Alabama.
Speaker 3:They ran them to the wire, ran them to the wire, Ran them to the wire yeah.
Speaker 2:Alabama lost to Vanderbilt, they lost to Tennessee and Oklahoma. I want to say, yeah, yeah, you're right. So if I'm the committee and Georgia gets like blown out by Texas, I'm now sitting there with a conversation that probably needs to happen A three loss Alabama, who didn't play in the conference title game Now, versus a three loss Georgia team and this would be off of the Georgia Tech game and now a blowout to Texas. Who do you take in? And look, Georgia beat Alabama. Yes, head-to-head, but I think that would be one of those conversations that I wish they would have, like a camera in the room, because I would love to see the arguments for both sides. I do think a loss like that brings Alabama back into the conversation. I do think a loss like that brings Alabama back into the conversation.
Speaker 1:I don't think you can have an argument, because Miami is sitting here at 10-2. They're going to be on the outside looking in on this, most likely. How do you exclude them, with two losses there, from the college football playoff? And that comes down to, oh you know, and it comes down to the argument of the SEC is deeper. Right, they keep telling us the SEC is deeper and that's what they're going to tell me until the cows come home. Right, the SEC is deeper, it's deeper.
Speaker 1:And you know, the greatest analogy I heard was I saw it on Twitter, I can't remember who it was, but he said if Minnesota and Wisconsin went to Ohio State and Oregon and it doesn't matter who, and they pulled off wins, and they pulled off wins against them. And that same day let's just say, two craptastic teams in the SEC I don't even know who's craptastic in there, let's just say the bottom feeders in there they go to Texas and they go to, let's just say, georgia and they pull off wins. We would look at those losses that Georgia and Texas took with less of a microscope than what Oregon and Ohio State took, because the SEC is deeper when the Big Ten is competitive. It's not deep. It's just because everybody stinks. When the SEC is competitive, then it's like oh, everybody's good, everybody's just good in there. There's this stupid narrative out there that we're not supposed to count these losses as heavy. They're losses. You took a loss. Alabama's losses are not pretty. They're not pretty at all. You look at the Oklahoma loss.
Speaker 1:Oklahoma's not a good football team and you lost 24-3. Does that narrate a team who should be in there with the top teams in the country? Vanderbilt.
Speaker 2:Where is Vanderbilt now? Jory's correction was kind of the reason why I brought it up, because bama did beat georgia. That's why I think now, if georgia now becomes a three loss team, bam is a three loss team. How do you decipher which one of them you take?
Speaker 1:that wasn't a blowout, though it was not a blowout, remember. Georgia came all the way back and took the lead, and then bam, I had to go back. That was actually a blown game by bam that they should have lost because georgia came back from the brink of everything, though.
Speaker 2:I'm looking at recent play because I can make the argument georg should have beaten Georgia. The fact that that went eight overtimes blew my mind. So do we exclude. These are the conversations that are going to happen.
Speaker 1:So do we exclude? Because this is the argument. Do we exclude the early season games? Do those not matter, like why do we play them?
Speaker 2:Why do we play those games? They do matter. They do matter, but it's like, obviously for the committee they're gonna remember the more recent games more than early season, because there's been so many games that happened since then. I'm just saying, if you're bama and you're sitting there, you're sitting at home, you're on the outside looking in. If you're watching and you see texas run up and down on Georgia, you turn to each other and go look, we beat that team. They now have the same amount of losses as us.
Speaker 2:Why shouldn't we get in over them? Not like they won the SEC, like if Georgia wins the SEC, then yeah, alabama's got nothing to stand on. But if Texas wins it and Georgia looks as bad as they have so far, like they did against Georgia tech and we already know Carson Beck is a guy who can blow a game for you If I'm Alabama, I'm looking at that and I go. If we get in, we might do better than Georgia, cause I know there's questions about Jalen Milrow. I would trust Milrow over carson beck yep, yeah, yeah, yeah, I would too.
Speaker 1:And uh, we do have. John did say that as south carolina beat vanderbilt and they beat oklahoma, so to put into perspective there of those wins by south carolina there. And then jory did say, uh, does georgia deserve to get in? And she was talking about the late game. They came back late in that one and then screaming anti-scc rhetoric.
Speaker 1:But I get it, I I don't think that I hate the sec, like I'm not saying that the sec doesn't have good football teams. What I'm saying is, if we're gonna have a tournament, if we're gonna have a 12 team playoff that's fair to other conferences out there, which is what we tried to do by setting up a 12 team playoff then you cannot exclude teams Like, let's just say, unlv, they're 10 and two right, they go and win their conference championship. How do you keep them out? How do you tell them no? How do you? How do you say no, unlv, you can't get in because we would rather take three sec teams. We're gonna take ohio state, oregon and, uh, um, indiana, because we got to take indiana. They only have one loss on the entire season. So now you have six of those teams already sec and big 10 teams. Now we got to take the winner of the acc championship game between Clemson and SMU, but then you look at Miami with two losses.
Speaker 2:Davos Cooney is campaigning for three teams from the ACC getting in.
Speaker 1:I think you could end up with that, because now you're looking at SMU with two losses. You're looking at Miami with two losses. If Clemson wins the ACC championship, now you have nine teams just between the acc, the sec and the big 10. You still got to take the big 12 champ in there. So now you're looking at who the heck is even in there. Arizona state would be probably your representative if they win that championship and if they don't, then they're out. You probably would throw in. Who's the other one in there? Is it iowa State? Iowa State Yep, iowa State would jump them.
Speaker 1:But then you're excluding teams in this playoff like Army, who, if they win their conference championship game, they're 11-1. So I'm not saying that I don't agree. These teams are better. Like I've always said, what if you put the best teams in there? Because that's what I said last year, with Florida State not being in, you had to put the best team, which was Alabama at the time. But I look at this and I say, if we're trying to make this fair to the conferences, how do you exclude conferences from this? By allowing three, three and three, and then you're like oh, the rest of you can just fill the last three spots.
Speaker 2:Well, one has to go to group of five. We do know that, yep, so they at least have that. I still think you probably should give them more opportunity. That's what I'm saying. You go to 16, get the group of five, two teams in. I think you can solve some of that. And look, every year it's going to be the same thing because the SEC and the Big Ten are seen as one level. Then you go like ACC and those other ones are a second level. So if it comes down to a conversation between Miami as a third ACC team or Bama as a fourth SEC team, they'll probably take the fourth SEC team over. I'll just say it in general, because I do think it probably comes down to Georgia and Bama, depending on how that Texas-Georgia game goes. Like Jory said, georgia gets blown out. 85%. They go Texas, tennessee, bama they leave Georgia out.
Speaker 1:I forgot about that one. If Georgia wins, you have Bama. With three losses, you have Tennessee and you have Texas. They're going to leave Bama off the list.
Speaker 2:I think they would have to.
Speaker 1:I think they would have to too, but I've seen stupider crap from this committee. So far I don't know stupid or crap from this committee so far I don't know.
Speaker 2:I mean there may be ways that they can get in and if that so, Georgia wins. If you're Bama, you might watch Clemson, SMU and maybe hope SMU blows Clemson out of the water Because Clemson's 12th ranked, Because Clemson's 12th ranked, so Clemson's kind of on the edge already. If SMU destroys Clemson, Clemson's going to fall out. Bama could slip in that way. That's what Bama's hoping for these teams that are ranked like 9, 10, 11, 12, who are in a championship game. You need those teams to lose kind of convincingly to help you slide back in yeah, yeah, and the byu anthony brings up the case for byu 10 and 2.
Speaker 1:They do have a win against kansas state on the season. There kansas state's been ranked just about all season. They beat them 38 to 9 in that game. That's a butt kicking. They've controlled the rest of their schedule outside of the Kansas and Arizona State losses.
Speaker 2:The ranking on Monday is going to clear some of this up.
Speaker 1:Will it clear it up or will it confuse us even more?
Speaker 2:That's going to be the big question I root for chaos, but I think it well, because everybody's going to look at who are the teams that are just outside the 12. Because then once you see those teams, you can kind of figure out with the conference title games, like who needs what to happen to get in? I think BYU, probably because BYU entered the week at 17. They'll probably jump up into that area where now if you're BYU you're hoping for a Clemson loss or some of these other teams to have a better shot of getting in Bama's 11 now. But the ranking Monday we'll see how they move some of these teams around, because we have to see how far does Ohio State drop, how far does Miami drop, how much do you raise, I guess, south Carolina? Like, do they move up any? Like I don't know, we'll have to see what they do.
Speaker 1:It's a disaster already.
Speaker 2:They switch it to 12 teams. It is a disaster. I like it.
Speaker 1:I wish it was still the BCS National Championship where the top two teams got in and then everybody else just kind of fell in behind.
Speaker 2:You know what ruined the BCS? For me, what ruined the BCS was that year when, like Georgia, lsu played and like Georgia beat LSU and then no, it was a Bama lsu or something like that.
Speaker 2:they played probably in the amma clemson for the 30th time in a row no, but there was a year where it's like that was back when they just had the two teams and then we had like bama and lsu in the eight in the sec title game and like lsu lost, but the computer didn't knock them down anyway and we just got the same game again in the national championship. At that point I was like the computer is broken, update the software or get it out, and kind of moved on to the committee and stuff.
Speaker 3:And, kyle, don't you think, like, with these, like and I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but these teams got absolutely like just annihilated. Like TCU, right, tcu Georgia is like oh my god, like that tcu team didn't belong in the same field, you know, and like you don't want? When you get to the very end of this, with 12 teams, I think you expect I, I know a team can go on a run like, let's just say, you know, looking at the top, um, the top 12 like, let's say, boise state runs the table and somehow they end up in the national championship and they get blown out. It's like, well, they did everything they could, they proved it right, and not to say, the Cincinnati teams of the world and the TCU's teams didn't prove it, but they came to the national championship and it was like you had nothing. You get killed in every facet of the game.
Speaker 3:You think with 12 teams, like, by the time you get to the end of it, it's like, okay, we found the two best teams at least that are playing right now. Might have not been all season long, like for one of them, but I think that's kind of what they tried to do like I think if you just kept running the BCS national championship, it was going to be like okay, it's just not. This makes it more exciting and and Trajan, I'm with you I hate going away from tradition in college football because I think college football is the most pure sport there is, in my opinion, that's. I'll die on that hill. But it's like you kind of. Now you're shaking things up. Like the Big Ten is what, the Big 16 or whatever. Like how many teams? Did you say 18? Like 18 teams in the big 10 now.
Speaker 1:So like you're seeing a lot of like movement around, but I I think I mean wish it was 10.
Speaker 3:Wisconsin would only be 10th then not 18th like I don't know you guys like I trust me, I'm a stickler for tradition, but it is making it more excuse me exciting. I I can't deny that it's bonkers. You've turned something that was already bonkers and then put gasoline on top of that and I'm kind of here for it. The NFL doesn't have totally two different things, but it doesn't hold a flame when it comes to how chaotic this is, and I don't know if that's a bad thing. I really don't know if that's, I think this is all good for college football.
Speaker 2:I got so tired of every end of the season scenario being got bama, got georgia, it was the ohio state michigan winner and oklahoma if we wanted it was oklahoma, throw my bone, or it was clemson, I thought that was so boring.
Speaker 2:This I love, and I think for college football fans, stop trying to not be college basketball. College basketball's got it right. I love the fact that the tournament is so crazy right now that we could see little old Mercer beat Duke. I love stuff like that. College football for some reason hates that. Like if if boise state beat um ohio state in the playoff, college football fans would be like oh, this is such a joke, but not me. I want to see that. I feel like it. It keeps these coaches on their toes. It gives Transfer Portal a reason to exist because the guy who's sitting as a fifth string at Georgia now can go like why am I staying here to only play like my senior year? I could go play at a lesser school.
Speaker 2:That could get into the playoff and still make a name for myself. It's better all around for college football. That's what I'm like. 12 is fine. Give me 16, go 32, I don't care settle down the second level of college football. Their playoff is 32. People love it.
Speaker 3:I don't understand why college football.
Speaker 2:Look, the whole thing is opening up. Maybe that's because if it was 32 teams, BC would probably still miss it. At least I'd be like man, we got a shot, I don't know. Okay, 32 might be crazy, but 16 seems like a good number. I think the word people had was if you went to 12, you'd get all these crap teams in. But if you look at the top 12, they are all big-name schools. So all we're getting are matchups we don't normally get during the regular season. That's all we're getting.
Speaker 3:And what's the NFL gone to now with the super wild card Now they've expanded that to is that eight teams per conference? It, that's all we're getting. And what's the nfl going to now with the super wild card you know, now they've expanded that to is that eight teams per conference? It's seven, which is weird too. Like um, but like now that's 14 teams. That's that's half. They call it half the league, you know. I mean that's basically you're putting half the league in the playoffs, like and and if you look at the nfl playoffs.
Speaker 2:Wild card weekend is like the best because you always get some crazy result that throws a wrench into everybody's thoughts on how the playoffs are going to go.
Speaker 3:I'm like between you guys because I know Trajan's like I totally agree with the fact you shouldn't just make the playoffs for being like five and five or so you know what I mean Like that would just be. But I also get it from you Like it makes it more exciting but it makes it less.
Speaker 1:This is why it doesn't work because Anthony is going to tell us why it doesn't work. Right here, I feel like having a 12-team playoff. You will see at least three games being a blowout. This is why it doesn't work. This is why it doesn't work, and'm gonna put in the scenario that you brought up with college basketball college basketball?
Speaker 2:how do they watch? Alabama blow out citadel, nobody cares college basketball how many people watch?
Speaker 1:that though yes, college basketball, you can have those mercers and dukes, because on any given night, duke can go cold from everywhere on the floor and mercer can get hot. What I'm gonna tell you this if I put Army on the same football field with Texas right now, that wouldn't be a ball game. It wouldn't even be a ball game, it wouldn't be close. The more you expand a playoff, the more teams you throw in, the more hats you throw out there for these lesser not lesser schools, but smaller schools to compete with the big ones. We're going to see more TCUs and Georgias. Is that Georgia that blew them out? Wasn't?
Speaker 1:that Georgia there we're going to have more games like that, because I don't want to be the guy to say it, but football is a different animal.
Speaker 2:It only takes one though. It only takes one small school to do it.
Speaker 1:I want to agree with you.
Speaker 2:That is all the playoff needs just one to do it. I want to agree with that it's gonna happen.
Speaker 3:Just one to do it you gotta close it at 16, though to me car like yes, 32, I was joking with. 32 has always been my end point because I'm running all these scenarios in my head too and I'm thinking okay, now you're letting teams that are not in even in the ap 25, like that gets to be like 16.
Speaker 2:16 has always been my close like that's. I feel like that's the perfect number.
Speaker 3:I think that could. I think you have a case 16 works.
Speaker 1:You get any more than that. You're allowing in teams that are just going to get dog-locked.
Speaker 3:More than that's crazy.
Speaker 1:I don't like dog-locking, because then we're going to have uncompetitive games until we get to about the second or third game in, Because I mean realistically the Georgia-Michigan, not Georgia-Michigan, the Ohio State-Michigan game. The difference in talent there, if you give me the talent, that that's Georgia versus Michigan. The same players are playing for Ohio State there, Not Ohio State, but they're playing for Georgia. The rivalry's not there, everything like that. I'm pretty darn sure that Georgia walks away with a win Like that's just in my head. That's what I'm thinking. So you cannot allow it to get too buck wild with it, is all I'm saying.
Speaker 2:Just 16, just 16 because, think about it just this year, this year, who was 16? You're probably not having a conversation about alabama being out.
Speaker 1:College football fans would love that I don't want to be at 16 get think, they think.
Speaker 2:If you had 16, Miami is safe. Miami would be in. I think college football fans. You know how many years people have been waiting for Miami to be back. At least if they make the playoffs, you can be like, hey, Miami's kind of on the road there If you open it up to 16.
Speaker 1:They should make the playoffs.
Speaker 2:South Carolina would probably be comfortably in. You just mentioned they beat the same Vanderbilt team that beat Alabama and then they beat Oklahoma. Who beat them? So South Carolina would get in and you're probably looking at Ole Miss getting in.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean yeah.
Speaker 1:Wisconsin's still not in. So I don't care, it doesn't do anything for me, but, but, but. But not for the college football talk, not for the college football talk. It was a crazy weekend Lots of fights, it was nuts. It was crazy out there.
Speaker 1:Jory does say that Kirby Smart is a better coach than Day and I don't know what she's saying that we're wrong about. I'm sorry that we're wrong and respectfully, she says respectfully. She says respectfully. I don't know what we're wrong about, jory. If you could clarify what we're wrong about. I know there's a lapse. I've seen that. I've heard that there's a lapse between the live stream and us talking. There's a lapse in there. So I don't know whatever. Who was ever talking when she was saying something? I have no idea. I have no idea, but something we were wrong about in that scenario. But we got lots more to get into today here. I want to get to Badger basketball first.
Speaker 1:Good weekend for the Badgers against Chicago State. They moved to 8-0. Good game all the way around. Badgers Tonje led the way again with 22 points. He stays on that little cruiser burner that he's been on as of late. Here Crowell has a good day 9 points. But another good game moving the basketball, and that's what I love about him Five assists in that game. There he's actually averaging 3.5 assists per game. He's the only D1 player, seven foot tall or seven foot or taller, to be averaging three assists per game. So that's a great stat there. Steven Crowell, not just a big man, he's got the ability to pass. You love to see that there. Nolan Winter coming along, great for the Badgers 9.6 points per game right now. 5.6 rebounds per game, 69% from the field. You love to see that.
Speaker 1:They did have the foreign guy I can't remember Ricardo Agrepia. I can't remember where he came from, over across the pond there he was in garbage minutes. But I mean, holy crapola, this guy is about a seven footer and he's 255 pounds. This is a big old dude and he was getting down there. He's scrappy, he plays quick, he plays hard down in the low block. I love to see him get in there, maybe a little bit of a taste of the future for what the Badgers will see in the post. I just love seeing him get some minutes there.
Speaker 1:Amos, xavier Amos played. He plays his minutes. I think he had like 13 against Chicago State there and I love to see him in there because this guy has a lot of potential. I believe he's got to settle in. Once he settles into his own, I got that feeling that Xavier Amos is going to be a big-time contributor in this rotation for the Badgers. He's got the ability to spread out defense there. He's got all I mean the intangibles that you want. He's got some size. He's got the ability to drive. Now it's about when he gets to the rim there finishing at the rim. So I like what I'm seeing out of Xavier Amos right now and I know I've seen across Marquette fans and everything like that. All those Marquette fans, I still hate you. I still hate you Like you're Marquette. I still hate you. You guys.
Speaker 1:0 years against Wisconsin. That's all I'm going to say. They all have to talk about how Wisconsin played close with Chicago State. This was a close game. Badger fans are a little bit worried. It's all good, you're going to have games like this. You played Chicago State. They were 0-8 coming into this game. They played you tough. You didn't have your best game shooting the basketball. It happens. It's a long season. This was one of those games over the Thanksgiving break where there's like no fans there or anything like that Like. It's just a. It's a different kind of game. You're playing an 0-8 team. Sometimes it's hard to stay focused in those games there. So I mean Wisconsin played what didn't play their greatest game, right, but they got the job done 74-53,. You'll take that, got the job done. Didn't shoot at the best, 39% from the field, 33% from downtown, did have those eight turnovers there. But I mean you walk away with the win. You live with it, right, you're going to live with it. It's a win, a win at the end of the day. You set yourself up 8-0.
Speaker 1:Now heading to Michigan for the next one there. I want to talk about that game a little bit here, because that is going to be a big test for the Badgers, right. I mean they've had some good games early on here. I mean they beat Arizona, got that game against Pitt, who Pitt just went and beat Ohio State and Ohio State's been highly touted this season here. So they got that win. Pitt's probably going to be ranked, so that win looks good for the Badgers there.
Speaker 1:But this Michigan team, they got some size and FAU's coach came up this last offseason there. He's kind of retooled this program, kind of changed it around a little bit there. They're 6-1 heading into this game. They got some good guard play right now. Trey Donaldson he's averaging 13 points a game, 52% from the field, 48% from downtown. This is a guy who can shoot it and he can drive. He can get there.
Speaker 1:Roddy Gale came over from Ohio State. He was fantastic there. I thought he was young yet, but he was growing into his own. He's coming over from Ohio State now to Michigan 12 a game, 49% from the field there, 38% from downtown. This guy can shoot it. They have a lot of shooters on this team. Namori Burnett he's 15 for 30 from downtown on the year here. So he's an impressive shooter from out there. They got some bigs too. I mean they got some bigs in there. Danny Wolf, the seven footer he's averaging 11 a game, nine rebounds, 31% from three. That's the guy who can spread you out. Vlad Golden, the big fella from FAU. He transferred up with his coach. He's averaging nine points a game, four rebounds and 58% from the field. On the season there he's been good. This team's looking good. You guys watch any Michigan basketball yet Seen anything about Michigan.
Speaker 2:I mean I haven't, but I'm looking at the numbers and I feel like it's a team that can kind of attack you with three levels. You know shooting 38% from three as a team. That gives you something to think about. Like you said, you get they have guys who shoot it really well. So defensively you have to be locked in with your rotations and, and you know, switches and all that like communication has to be key on those rotations.
Speaker 2:And the big men down low they clean the glass. So if Wisconsin has a night where they're off with their shooting, michigan has some guys who are going to clean up and take away those second-chance opportunities. So that's where you might be worried with them because, like you said I think we talked about it a couple times when I've been on here some of these games that Wisconsin is winning, they're not shooting the best from the field and against some teams that's going to come back and bite you and it looks like Michigan's the type of team that it could very well do that. So that's going to be key for them is shot selection and knocking down those open shots when you have them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, 100% agree, and you know that was one of the things that I had on there too. Controlling the paint, that's going to be tough. They got some bigs in there Vlad and Danny Wolf but you got to control that paint here. You got to limit the second chance points that Michigan can get. We know, aaron, we talked about that Arizona game. They got out-rebounded by like 25 in that game. Wisconsin did and they still ended up winning that game. But this could be a game where that comes back to bite. So they've got to get some bodies on guys, get those rebounds, win that free-throw battle. Michigan's shooting 66% from the free-throw line. Wisconsin still leads the country from the free-throw line there. I believe they're still around that 86% mark there. So, controlling that free throw line, get there, knock down your shots. That's going to be huge in this one. And, like I mentioned, battle for the boards, offense defense. You got to get on the boards, you got to control the glass in this one. Spread Michigan size out. That's a big thing for me too, and they're going to try, if they can, to pack that paint because John, tonje, klezment, blackwell, they all like to drive, they all like to get downhill, they all like to drive, they all like to get downhill, they all like to cut to the basket. What's going to stop that Big guys staying on the inside? Spread that defense out, limit them, control the glass. That's what I'm looking at in this one here. Don't hurt yourself. You got to play smart here. This Michigan team they'll turn you over. You got to play smart with the basketball. Don't hurt yourself in this one. Get out on shooters and when you switch, you got to switch fast. You got to go underneath. You got to get over top. Whatever it is, get there fast. If you're going to switch guys, I could create mismatches in this game that could hurt Wisconsin. So you got to be able to rotate in this game here. And I mean and I mean one. You got one shot at Michigan this year. You only got one shot. That's how the big 10 is going to square off Now, with all these additions of teams, you're not going to see Michigan again. This is your one shot at Michigan. You never know if this game I mean I'm not going to say that Wisconsin is it's a long way away right To the to the end of the season there, but you got to get to that point. And if Michigan's up there with you, you want to have that tiebreaker right. So this is a game where you got to have it right and it's at the Kohl Center.
Speaker 1:Big 10 games. It's hard to win on the road, doesn't matter where it is. If you go to Mackey, if you go to Penn State, it doesn't matter, it really doesn't If they're bad, if they're good, it doesn't matter. Going on the road in the Kohl Center, you've got to take care of your business there. And we do have one in on the text line here.
Speaker 1:The Badgers need to score early and set the tempo. 100% agree, the Badgers have got. They like to start slow in these games and they start to trail. Holy Cross did it to them. They were trailing the UT Rio Grande early on in that game and were able to come back. Same with Pitt. Pitt was running on wall to wall until Wisconsin kind of settled in the second half. You gotta be able to set the tempo in this game. Don't let Michigan control this one. You control it from the opening tip in this one and I think the Badgers have a very good shot to win this one here. Michigan does turn it over a lot 15 turnovers per game on the season there. They're also got four blocks per game, so we know what the bigs do when you drive in there. But those 15 turnovers turn michigan over. Let them play sloppy. Take advantage of that. Get those points on the run there.
Speaker 1:So aaron anything else you got to add on the back side of that for this michigan uh wisconsin game coming up there on tuesday, that'll be a tuesday game on peacock.
Speaker 3:Of course it's on peacock that's like a staple for for the badgers at this point, I guess the, the Big Ten runs Peacock baby.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'll just be curious, like how you guys kind of already hit on the fact that you know what will Wisconsin look better? You know this is a challenge from a rebounding standpoint. So it's like, do they shoot so well that they won't have to worry about if they get out-rebounded, or will it come down to, hey, we need to get, you know, we need to be as active on the glass as Michigan to win this game. And then you know what do they have there. You know, from a matchup standpoint. So it is one of those things you look at as a test from a perspective of kind of a weakness for Wisconsin and a strength for Michigan.
Speaker 3:So that's kind of what you want to see at some point too. Like, I mean not to say you don't want Wisconsin undefeated if you're a Badger fan, right but you want a team to be tested in an area where you have some questions. So kind of long story short, that's what you're kind of looking at there. I mean, obviously you want to win, but you know where they're kind of having some difficulties. What do they make adjustments? Do they not get any better? Do they make adjustments? Do they not get any better? Do they get better. It's just one of those wait and see type of deal.
Speaker 1:Yep, yep, no, 100%. This is going to be a big game. I really do think this is going to be a big game for the Badgers. Start the Big Ten schedule out right, and plus, on the backside of this, you've got Marquette coming up this next weekend, so that's going to be a tough test. It always, always, is a good game between those two and this is the start of it, right. You got to get this game against Michigan. Don't lay an egg. Don't lay an egg at home, because you got to travel to Marquette for that next match up there. So we do have, I know, wisconsin. They're going to come out with a new poll tomorrow there for the NCAA men's. I did see Anthony said I don't understand the AP poll for NCAA basketball, so we'll look at that real quick. John, I don't understand the AP poll for NCAA basketball, so we'll look at that real quick.
Speaker 3:John did say y'all know who is undefeated in football and basketball Quack, quack them, ducks right man, this guy's a homer for sure, Don't know.
Speaker 1:Don't know what to tell you. I do think, John, if I'm not mistaken, I'm pretty sure Alabama is losing to Oregon right now. Last I just saw I don't know if that actually finished Did they lose to Oregon? Did Alabama lose to Oregon, or was that happening tonight? I don't remember. Let's find it. I might be lost. That might have happened a couple days ago. Yeah, it happened a couple days. Oregon did pull off the win against Alabama there we go 83-81.
Speaker 1:That was on saturday. That happened on saturday there. So alabama's kind of falling apart on that side. And I did see dan hurley. You know his, his fantastic self. He drives me nuts. Uh, dan hurley did say that they will not be participating in any more tournaments like three-game or whatever tournaments. Now this is like cry me a river moment for Dan Hurley because he lost three games down there in Maui. So now he's all kinds of emotional about it and everything else. It's like dude, just because you get steamrolled down there, that's nobody's fault but your own. I don't know what you like, what. Come on, come on now. So we see that. We see that happen there. I'm trying to pull up the rankings but it ain't. That one isn't right. Does anybody have the rankings pulled up? My rankings is not updated for some reason. It's telling me that UConn doesn't have a loss. Oh, jory, I'm not saying Alabama stinks or anything like that.
Speaker 2:I'm just saying that they won.
Speaker 1:I'm just saying that they won, nobody's saying that they stink. They won, I'm just saying that they won, nobody's saying that they stink. I can't.
Speaker 3:My ESPN is like it's telling me that UConn only has, and AP News is the same way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they don't have this updated at all. I figured this was updated like daily or something, but I don't know, I have no idea, it's not updated. So we're not going to go through those stats there. We aren't going to go through them because I don't know, I have no idea, it's not updated. So we're not going to go through those stats there. We aren't going to go through them because I don't even know. But you know, john says there those tournaments don't mean much. Unc lost twice and make basically Final Four every year. You know I'm going to say that they don't mean much, but it's a resume booster, it definitely is.
Speaker 1:You go into some of these tournaments, like the Maui, as loaded as that thing is, with the teams that, like everybody who beat UConn in the Maui tournament now has a win against UConn to talk about when it comes to tournament time. Colorado got the win down there. And who else beat UConn? It was Colorado. Can't remember off the top of my head now who else beat UConn down there? It was Colorado, for sure, ah. Shoot Now. I can't remember off the top of my head now who else beat UConn down there. It was Colorado for sure. Ah shoot. Now I can't remember who won the Maui. Oh, I'm lost with it, but I know they lost a couple games down there. They lost at least they were in the seventh-place game down there. I believe they got the win in the seventh-place game.
Speaker 3:They lost to Dayton.
Speaker 1:Dayton, there we go.
Speaker 3:Memphis.
Speaker 1:So Dayton uh, they lost to dayton. Dayton, there we go. Uh, memphis, colorado and memphis we're all three losses there. So I mean that's those three teams just got resume boosters for the end of the year. So, yes, those tournaments don't mean a lot, but they also do. I mean they also are those resume boosters. These teams boost themselves. Just like wisconsin got that win against pitt, they got that win against ucf and I don't know what ucF is going to turn into but Pitt now beat Ohio State. They're probably going to end up in the top 25 this next week. So that win's looking even better for them. On the backside of that, arizona keeps getting drops, so they're going to be out of top 25. So that win doesn't look like crap anymore. But you keep. I mean these tournament games. These tournaments do mean something over the holidays there. You can definitely pick up some resume boosters in there that you normally wouldn't, that you normally wouldn't see. You can definitely pick them up in there. So a lot of teams got some. A lot of teams. Well, they wish they never win.
Speaker 1:Dan hurley's never going back. That's what he tells me. We'll play one game, but we won't play three. That's what he's telling me. Now that dude, he drives me absolutely nuts. He drives me absolutely nuts on the sideline like I love, I love the fire, I love the fire. But there's got to be this like little line there and once the fire reaches that line, you just gotta put it out like it's just got to be done.
Speaker 1:Because that I mean led to a technical foul in that game. I believe it was against, was against colorado or memphis. The one in overtime, I believe it was memphis there that led to the technical foul. It led to free throws in the ball which led to the loss. Like that comes back to bite there. So, and he, john, did say that Auburn won it all Auburn's. I mean, yeah, that boosted Auburn, auburn, they could be. I mean, kansas is still sitting pretty but they could get themselves up into the top two possibly in the country there after wins like that. So I mean just an impressive little tournament run there for them.
Speaker 1:But I mean college basketball is just getting in the swing of things and we're already seeing some craziness. We're already seeing some craziness. We'll have the top 25 dropping tomorrow there. We can't wait to see what comes out of that there. So, guys, let's get to the NFL. Let's talk some NFL, because today's games were kind of madness. There were kind of some madness games there Vikings, cardinals.
Speaker 1:Nobody can help my Packers. That's what I've come down to the conclusion of. Nobody can help the Packers just win a freaking game because Kyler Murray decides like midway through the game, let's start playing like Call of Duty is coming out tomorrow because I'm going to start launching balls here. I don't know what he was thinking. There's one interception that comes to mind where he just kind of whipped it down the sideline and there was nobody even in the area code and the guy just catches it, steps out of bounds. I don't even know what he was doing there. I mean this Vikings team. I don't trust Sam Darnold to do it. I trust they have a good defense. I trust the defense. I don't trust Sam Darnold to be the quarterback to lead them there. I just don't trust the Vikings. I just don't trust the Vikings because I'm looking at these last five games. I feel like they're vulnerable.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, look, the Vikings aren't going to be able to escape the Sam Darnold variable, because for Sam Darnold he's still going to be the guy who saw ghosts with the Jets until he wins a playoff game. That's going to stick with him. Now I think the grand scheme of things, them beating Arizona, is not a terrible win for them. But, like you said, all the good that Arizona was kind of putting out there late in this game kind of wiped it all away. The Kyler Murray, sandlot football running around and then just spinning and throwing it to an area that's the kind of stuff that worried me about the Cardinals coming into the season. But then you also look at that he made a great throw to Marvin Harrison for a touchdown, a throw that was, you know, thread the needle right over the top of the defender and it's like if you get more of that Kyler Murray, the Cardinals could be something to deal with. But I can't trust them. So the fact that the Vikings beat a team that's kind of like them with a quarterback, you just can't trust them. So the fact that the Vikings beat a team that's kind of like them with a quarterback, you just can't trust. I don't know what that really does for them. They are 10-2, so it's kind of crazy the fact that we have like so many teams that have good records but we're just like I don't know what they are the Vikings, the Texans, the I mean I would throw the ravens in there, but you know I'm the resident raven hater, so whatever it's on par but there's just so many teams that I don't know what to expect come wild card weekend and kind of what we're talking about college football. I kind of like that about the nfo, because we know one of these random teams will beat, because we know one of these random teams will beat one of these favorites up top in these conferences and we'll be like, well, where was this all year? And who knows, minnesota might be that team Because, like Jory said, they could honestly be 8-4, and I would be like, yeah, that sounds about right, but the fact that they're 10-2, you give them credit.
Speaker 2:You know, I give more of that to the defense and Flores, and I feel like this is going to be a resume, kind of like stamping for Brian Flores, like, look, I get Miami didn't work. I get Tua cried about me in the offseason because he's a wimp, but I should be a head coach somewhere. It shows I took a defense in Minnesota that people were like this defense isn't that good and they're performing. He needs to get a job out of this. I don't know where, because that's the problem now. His tough style won't mesh with a lot of quarterbacks coming out of this. I don't know where, because that's the problem now. I his his tough style won't mess with a lot of quarterbacks coming out of college, because they don't see that in college. So I'm just like I don't know where he would go.
Speaker 3:I was gonna say your part kyle, like he, he fits like I don't know if trade you know I mean trade, you know, probably agree, but like chicago, that's a tough city, right. Like he fits the mold of Chicago. But Caleb Williams is the opposite of, like let's just call a spade a spade, right. Like guy is not a tough guy, let's just put it that way, Right. So I don't know how they I mean it might work, right, I'm not going to say it wouldn't, but like he, like Chicago's, like I mean you think of, yes, this, that and third, but like defense, like that was Chicago, you know Chicago Bears formed on, like that's how they were built, Like I could see it outside of the Caleb Williams factor. And like you saw DJ Moore, Keenan Allen against Detroit, Like there's a lot of personalities. I'll say that there's a lot of personalities in that locker room.
Speaker 1:So I mean I could say that there's a lot of personalities in that locker room Sassy. Sassy is the key word there. Jory says sassy. Yeah, I don't know. I like that. That's what I'm going to use from now on. These QBs are sassy, dang it, they're all in on it.
Speaker 2:I agree, flores' personality would fit in Chicago so well.
Speaker 3:It's just the quarterback and the everything else, yeah, the defense like they already have a good defense you'd make, probably make them better yeah, no, I agree, I agree, I mean this.
Speaker 1:Uh uh, the cardinals, the cardinals, they couldn't do it for me. Like I was, I had the faith. I was like, yes, like somebody's gonna knock off the vikings, the packers will be right there with them. Then like I'm feeling good, and then bam kyler murray takes over there.
Speaker 1:And jory said there's something about call of duty. I saw something called he's thinking he was in call of duty. Like yeah, he's just throwing grenades out there like fire bam, like just chuck it up there like that's what he's doing. It just drives me nuts. So john says were y'all shocked by the score of that halftime between the Steelers and Bengals? 48 points. I'm going to tell you what shocks me the most is that a team can score 38 points and seem like they score over 20 consistently and still lose eight games. That's nuts, that's nuts. Joe Burrow and this offense deserve better than the craptastic defense that's getting thrown out there night in and night out. That's bad.
Speaker 1:And wilson looked like he was prime time russell wilson gonna lead the steelers to a super bowl by himself. Russell wilson in this game like that's 414 yards, three touchdowns and 29 to 38 through the air. That is nuts. That is russell wilson nvp level crap right there. And we're seeing it against this. That's just wow, Just wow. And this, no, I'm not saying like that's what he's going to be, Jory, Like I'm not saying that's what he's going to be, but what I'm saying is like to have a defense that makes him look like that wow.
Speaker 2:Look, I didn't like the move to Russell Wilson when they made it because I thought Justin Fields had done enough to keep the job. But I moved past that. I think the way Russell's playing right now, with the way that that defense is, I think they are the biggest. Well, I do like, kind of like, buffalo, but I think if you're looking at teams that can knock off Kansas City, to me the list stops at Buffalo and Pittsburgh. I think that's it. I do think maybe a sneaky team would be the Chargers only because I like Jim Harbaugh that much.
Speaker 2:I don't know. You know I don't like Quentin Johnston, as you know, a wide receiver, because he has drops at the absolute worst time. But if you're going to tell me this Russell Wilson and this defense couldn't go to Arrowhead and get a win, I think you're crazy. I think they have as good of an opportunity as Buffalo and I could make the argument that Pittsburgh might be better equipped to do it than Buffalo is, because we also know Josh Allen has that ability to kind of go wild for like a couple of quarters. You can't do that in the playoffs against Kansas City. I think I would trust Russell Wilson to be more consistent, and I know TJ Watt and that defense they will travel Well, the only thing might hold up is the running game. Najee Harris doesn't necessarily Wow you. Jalen Warren, I think, does a little bit more. But if those two like if they get the perfect storm and Russ is throwing the deep ball, harrison Warner effective in the run game, they are a dangerous team in the AFC.
Speaker 1:Aaron, what do you think?
Speaker 3:What do you think? Yeah, I mean I just to kind of piggyback off Kyler. I don't know if I trust like them to have that perfect storm, though, like, for everything to kind of come together would be a little surprise. I'm not going to say shocking, but like. But, like you know, are we gonna see another performance like this, like if, if I know their, their defense, could lock down the holes for probably three and three, three and a half quarters, I I wouldn't be like maybe not lock them down but hold them under like 20, I wouldn't be shocked. Um, it's just, can the defense do that? Can r Russ be the Russ of like today, or even you know, a little bit down from this? And then the running game, like their O-line. I still I'm not in love with their offensive line. I haven't been in quite some time. They just can't seem to figure that out for a while now. I just I see what you're saying and I'm not completely disagreeing with you. I see what you're saying and I'm not completely disagreeing with you. I just they're dangerous, they can be dangerous, but do I expect them to to like run Kansas city wide? I probably don't. I probably expect them to play with them for like three quarters and then it just kind of fall to the waste, like I'd love to see it. Honestly, I'm a rut, like I like Russ a lot, I don't mind the Steelers at all, but it would take, I mean, and it's playoff, I mean we're probably all tired of Mahomes this, mahomes that, but it is, the guy is just he's the hardest out, like he is the hardest guy to get out of you know. So I mean, like I said, I'd love to see the parody of it. I just it would be surprising, not shocking, but it would be quite surprising, just because you know you're expecting a defense to do that to Mahomes and you're expecting Russell Wilson to to play it, I would say elite level to win. And then, like you said, I'm not, I think Najee Harris on a different team would probably be a beast, but, like I said, it goes back to that o-line. I think he has to battle for every yard he gets at times and that's where I feel, like you know, chris jones might tee off and like it.
Speaker 3:It turned into kind of a mess offensively for the steelers, unfortunately. But I mean, yeah, trajan, like you said, this joe burrow man, I mean they, this franchise. I I didn't have any trust when they drafted him. I still stand by that. You that Years later they're kind of like a better version of the Raiders.
Speaker 3:They're creatures of habit. They find a way to mess things up, but they're better than the Raiders. Now you kind of saw them peak a couple years ago. Now they're kind of like the Bengals we knew with Andy Dalton. Andy Dalton was in the playoffs every year. I mean you had Marvin Lewis in the playoffs every year. But what did you? You never came. I mean they didn't even sniff a Super Bowl. At least Burrow's been to one. But it's just they can't figure.
Speaker 3:And defense, like I would bring in shoot, we were just talking about him who we said to go go the bears right, um, flores, yeah, like I'd pay top dollar. I mean the bangles. It took them how many years to just have a, uh, an inside practice facility. So that you know those, those guys are not um, their ownership is penny pinchers to the max. But if you bring in a known defense like I would even be okay with them bringing in, like Rex Ryan at his age now, like I think the guy can coach defense. I'm convinced of it. So just, I think you've got to shake it up going into the next. If you're Cincinnati, I mean. Baltimore is consistent, they're not having a great year, but they're still consistent. Pittsburgh's not going away. I mean, who cares about the Browns? They're a mess, but you're against the two-headed monster and you have no defense. So it's like what do you have? Yeah?
Speaker 1:You can sling it, you can score with the basketball. You have to sell it on defense. You got the quarterback. Yeah, you got the quarterback who can work with anything.
Speaker 2:Defense.
Speaker 1:I don't care.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You sign chase first, then everything's defense. Yeah, 100, because you got a quarterback who can work with just about anything at this point. You can throw anybody out there and he's gonna make it work. It's just a matter of can you have a defense? Who can prevent, I don't know? 44 points a night like that's. That's the big kicker right there joe burrow throws one interception and chris can't.
Speaker 1:He's like he's the problem and it's like no, no, let's look deeper into this issue here because there's more problems, but whatever. So we got another game I wanted to mention. John did say Atlanta will keep Kirk to play his old team, but if they drop two more in a row, that would be five in a row. Do you bring in Pennix against the Giants? There the Falcons lost to the Chargers 17-13. Kirk Cousins throws four interceptions, four picks in that game. That's wowza, that'll hurt. That'll hurt for some time there. So I mean do you bring in Pennix? That's the question. Do you bring in Pennix? That's a lot of money you're wasting on a backup quarterback. That's all I'm going to say?
Speaker 2:All I'll say is I picked the Bucs to win that division before the season started. I thought when Godwin and Evans went down they were screwed. But I mean Jory, like we talk about on our show, the Falcons were Falcon. They have literally done that to the point that Tampa Bay has gone through all of that crap and has the same record. I look I I would trust baker mayfield to get that team over the falcons. Now for the question. I would do it because I I think there's too much talent on this atlanta team for them to be six, and six like that's a crime. Now you know k Now Kyle Pitts. I'm done with that guy.
Speaker 2:I didn't like the pick to begin with. I really don't like his presence on this team at all right now. That pick could have gone to a pass rusher because their pass rush stinks. But I don't run the Falcons Whatever.
Speaker 2:I think if you stick with Kirk, with kirk cousins, they'll probably be like an eight and nine type of team. There'll be a nice little cute story and then they'll probably get destroyed by the packers or vikings wild card weekend just because they get the home game for being a divisional winner. But the road team coming in is going to be a big-time favorite. If that's what your endgame is, what's the point? You paid the money to Kirk Cousins. Fine, it would put Pennix in a tough spot. But I think John has kind of the right idea. You put Pennix out there against the Giants. The Giants' defense is okay, but at least that's a game that you're not worried about some high-powered offense making it tough on them.
Speaker 2:I would do it. It's a move that would be risky. It's the type of move that may not go over with everybody in the locker room, but you can't sit here and watch Kirk Cousins give you another performance like today. That's a game they probably should have won, especially since it was in Atlanta. It's bad enough that Atlanta is known as only playing really well in Atlanta. They lost a couple in Atlanta now that that's not even their sanctuary anymore. I think if they stick with Cousins the rest of the season, they blow this and miss the playoffs. Yeah, and I'm a Kirk Cousins guy, it kind of hurt me to say that, but the way he played today like one he's a statue back there and he was getting hit so much today against the Chargers I just I'm just worried about them now.
Speaker 1:That dude is stealing money. That's what's going on. He is a thief. He is honestly a thief at this point. That's on the Falcons though. Yeah, 100%. The.
Speaker 2:Falcons did it to themselves with having Desmond Ritter. If I had Desmond Ritter and I thought Kirk Cousins was available, I probably would have given him a billion dollars, because at least he's not Desmond Ritter. Problem is he's just. This is probably not the right team for him. Like if Kirk Cousins was, I don't know, like if he was in Chicago, I don't know, maybe he would have done well, because you're looking at Keenan Allen, dj Moore, guys like that, that might have fit him. I mean, if he was still in Minnesota, he had the connection with Justin Jefferson and Addison and all that. They would probably be in the same position they are with Darnold and you would feel better about Minnesota with Kirk Cousins than Sam Darnold going into the playoffs. But this Atlanta team, yeah, he just doesn't work team.
Speaker 3:I I yeah, he just doesn't work. I I just feel like you know, I I mean I always kind of praise the like trajans packers for how they groom quarterbacks into the league. I just I don't know what's that. It's what we do, baby. I I just I don't know if the juice is worth the squeeze to me to bring panics in for this year. Like, like I totally hear you, kyle. Like I mean I'm the anti-Kirk Cousins. Like he's the guy. He's like Sam Bradford to me, 2.0. Like you're never going to win anything with this guy. I don't care if you put him on the 49ers, he'd find a way to lose. Like it's just you could put him on and it'll be the fourth quarter and he'll throw the pick where you just can't have it. So I mean, if they limp in the playoffs and the Packers or the Vikings come in and smoke them, whatever To me, I just feel like, are you really going to increase the ceiling of this team? We don't know what Pennix is, but am I willing to risk hurting the kids' confidence? I know everybody throws a quarterback in there now. I know the NFL is different, but I just feel like they've stuck to this plan all year.
Speaker 3:Kirk Cousins to me stinks. He's not good. It's just you just ride it. I mean, like Trajan said, he stole what they gave him a four-year deal, I think it was like $160 million. It was like $40 million a year. I year deal, I think it was like 160. It was like 40 year million a year.
Speaker 3:I thought that was a mistake. The second they made that deal, to be honest with you, and it's gonna like I don't know how you hang on to him for three more years. I really don't. But this is what you get, like six and six. It doesn't surprise me one bit. Um, I know he was better in minnesota, but you gotta remember he's aging and coming off. What, uh, achilles or acl tear, one of the two, two.
Speaker 3:I just he's kind of like Rodgers in the fact that he's just not. He's not the same guy he was, and even him at his best ceiling, you weren't going to get a Super Bowl out of him. In my opinion. He just finds a way not to. So I think you ride it out with him. If you make the playoffs, great. If you don't, you don't. But I just feel like you give Pennix like week one next year, or I mean I don't think you sit him for another year, but it's like I don't want to shake it up that much because you're not going anywhere. In my opinion, even with Pennix, you're not Like you might win one playoff game.
Speaker 1:Like I. I just that's my kind of like tipping point on it. If the division is lost, then yeah, you bring them in panthers game week. Last week of the season you bring them in. Outside of that it's kirk cousins all the way. I you throw, like you said, you throw panics in there. Now what's it gonna do? Like, what's it really gonna do is kirk, yes, today against the chargers. He hurt you four interceptions, yes, but you look at his stats on the year 17 touchdowns, nine interceptions. Yeah, the nine interceptions isn't great, but 17 touchdowns there, I believe his rating is like 96 on the season. He's got a 68% completion rating. Like, is he really the reason why you're losing football games Today? Yes, four interceptions. Yes, I'll give you that one.
Speaker 2:But before that I don't know it's the same guy. They lost 38-6 to the Broncos.
Speaker 1:Well, the Broncos are a juggernaut dude Like come on, that's a juggernaut football team.
Speaker 2:You cannot lose to the Broncos 38-6.
Speaker 1:No, you cannot lose to the Saints 20-17. You can lose to the Broncos, well. Lose to the brock, well that's the vision.
Speaker 2:That's the vision. That's the older ball game. No, especially the way the saints have gone this year. No, and the way that they lost that game was I mean, the defense had a major part because they turned valdez scantling into like tyreek hill just running down the sideline on them like okay, but you only score 17 against them, you score six against denver and then you score 13 today against the chargers, like what, what is he giving you at this point? Once again, I am a kirk cousins guy, but I would leave him for the vikings, I would give him that, I'd probably give him the raiders game. But if they lose the next two and you're sitting at six and eight and let's say the Bucs are seven and seven and you're just desperate, I might throw Penix out there for the Giants, commanders and Panthers. Worst case he loses all three, you miss the playoffs anyway. But at least he's gotten a start for next season where you can kind of hit the ground running with him.
Speaker 3:I can see that, like there's an argument, this is this is kirk cousins problem.
Speaker 1:He was never. Kirk cousins has never been the quarterback to win you a football game. He's never been that guy. He game manages. He's a manager of the game. When you have justin jefferson, jordan addison, tj hackinson, you can manage a game. You just got to get him the football. Now you have to. You have to play the quarterback position, and now we're seeing it full, you got b john yes, you got drake london.
Speaker 1:But drake london did you name justin jefferson off in that list, because when you watch justin jefferson you just gotta throw the ball in his direction and somehow he comes down with it. I always used to poke fun at it. I was like kirk cousins just setting up a prayer. Like justin jefferson's got to be down there somewhere, right same with my homes, with tyree kill. It's like sometimes he just whipped that puppy up there and tyree could go run it down like you really see who the best quarterbacks are when their weapons are gone, when those star weapons are gone, drake london's a good wide. I don't think he's great like Justin Jefferson, you know.
Speaker 1:And look at Mahomes with his receivers. What proved Mahomes was good. He did it with MVS, he did it with Hardman, he did it with these no-name guys that nobody else could do it with. He did it with those guys and that's what speaks volumes to him as a quarterback. That's what's telling us what Kirk Cousins is. Right now You're talking about Kyle Pitts. He was supposed to be this big guy, right? What's he doing for you Not?
Speaker 2:a whole lot. Yeah, drake London, I mean, he's a good wide receiver, but he's not great.
Speaker 1:He's not great yet. B John Robinson's fantastic, but he can only do so much right. So you had the weapons in minnesota.
Speaker 2:Now you look atlanta, it's not saying record last year though with minnesota division race of the falcons. They were in the division race last year to the last week with desmond ritter he's a dog, may end up this division sucks, kyle.
Speaker 1:This division sucks.
Speaker 2:It sucked last year, it sucks this year on paper, you would say the Hawks are the more talented team and 12 weeks in you're a 500 team with a Buccaneers squad that I heard people, when they lost that game and Godwin went down and Evans went down, thought their season was cooked. Oh yeah, I'd throw in the towel.
Speaker 1:I'd throw in the towel, I would too.
Speaker 2:But look they have the same record and now the bucks have a new life in this division. Why?
Speaker 1:I'm agreeing with you. You brought in a subpar quarterback. You brought in a subpar. You're bringing in subpar quarterback to replace a not good quarterback and you're getting the same result. And you're spending. And you're spending how much more money to do it like? That's what you're getting right now.
Speaker 2:You brought, brought in an old off-of-injury subpar quarterback and you're expecting him to lead you.
Speaker 3:Your ceiling was here, and now it's here. Yeah, you didn't raise the bar.
Speaker 1:You just brought in a guy who can game management and lead you a little bit better. That's all you did. You didn't raise the bar. You had.
Speaker 2:You had Desmond Ritter, you had Taylor Heineke last year. I'm not disagreeing with you.
Speaker 1:That tells you how bad Kirk Cousins is. Yeah, it's really showing that the playmakers in Minnesota made it that much better Because, like you were saying, if you replace him and Sam Darnold they're probably in the same spot, right? So it tells you, you put him in a playmaker system with that kind of head coach. That's our dog. But now it's like Atlanta. He looks like crap. But why? Why is that the case? Kirk Cousins, I was never convinced he was a great quarterback. He could just work with the weapons in the system. He could just work with what it was. You put him with the Steelers. He probably looks as good as Russ because the defense is great. Probably looks as good as Russ. But because the defense is great, probably looks as good as Russ. But that's game management. I mean he just he does what he has to do. I don't know he does what he has to do there. So we see over here. John says one more. John says I was thinking of another home loss, the Jags and that hit against Trevor Lawrence. Mack Jones came in and looked good Thoughts on the hit.
Speaker 1:It was close. In my opinion, mahomes does that fake slide all the time. So I want to talk about that for a second there. That hit on Trevor Lawrence. Now we talked about it on snap counts there and the more I slowed it down the worse it looked after the fact there it was a dirty hit. It was definitely a dirty hit there, gave about three yards there to not hit him and he decided to still go full bore in there. It was in real time, looked like a late slide but watching it back in slow-mo he started sliding, I believe, at like the 25 yard line there and the hit happened at like the or not the? Was it the 45? And the hit he took off off in the 43. I don't know, it was somewhere in there. I don't remember what I said there but I mean, what do you guys think, was it? What do you think of that hit?
Speaker 2:It was like it was as ugly as it seems. You know watching Trevor Lawrence scramble out, go down, he gets hit. You know fist balls up, he's clearly concussed. You know the players reacted the way that they did. I mean, yes, in some instances it's a tough decision for a defender because if you don't go in like full speed to make the hit, some of these quarterbacks have gotten smart where they kind of slow up to make you think they're going down and then they speed back up and go for a couple of more yards.
Speaker 2:It's tough, but with this hit alone it was. It could have been avoided. It was dirty, he got ejected, correct call, he probably should get fine. Now suspension, don't know, but I think if they said it was a one-game suspension, I'd be like I don't hate that. And I mean, john, yes, you run full speed, try not to make contact less than one to two seconds. True, but these are also well-conditioned athletes that know when it comes to the quarterback, you have to be very careful with them. Like well-conditioned athletes that know when it comes to the quarterback, you have to be very careful with them.
Speaker 1:He wasn't full speed, though. Watch the video back. When you watch the video back, he wasn't. He broke down. And then when Trevor Lawrence started his slide, that's when he came in. That's when he came in for the clock, so he was broke down. When you really watch it back, he broke down. Lawrence was in a slide, Then he brought the shoulder, which made it look worse. I thought I was in your same boat, John. When I watched it the first time in live time, I was like it looked like a late slide. It looked like he was coming full bore. But when you watch it back, he broke down and then he comes forward.
Speaker 3:There was more than enough time to pull yourself out of that. Yeah, I, I agree, I I messaged, like trajan, I messaged you right away when I saw because of the early games, this is one of the only times I could really catch some of the early games. Today, of course, I flip this on and I like almost immediately see this and I'm like, wow, like that is because I mean, I don't know if you guys have noticed and I'm not saying that they're you know, from a league standpoint, telling these guys. I think they are Like you know, if you watch Lamar play like and you know I know he's a freak athlete and he can like evade any defender out there, basically. But there's times I see Lamar running towards the sideline and there are guys that could like literally take his head Like he'd look like a Lego man, take his head like he'd look like a lego man, like his head would be over here and his body would be like. There are opportunities where there are guys that could tee off and and same thing with jalen hertz he's a mobile quarterback josh out like I see it with a lot of these guys.
Speaker 3:But this was an instance where and and I gotta feel bad for trevor lawrence. Like seasons I, regardless of, like you know I don't care about the jags, but it's like season's. You know he's battled injuries in the last couple weeks, months, and then you have this in a season that you can't do anything with anyway. And then, like, just like you said, trajan, he starts his like it's clear as day, he's starting his slide and this guy is kind of lowering, like he's now lowering to get down at his level. I understand that, but he's still leading with the head and I mean, as far as quarterbacks are concerned, this is one of, like, the worst ones I've seen in the last couple of years, I think, just because I mean you see the two ones, a lot of those. You know he's getting pushed like he's getting hit and he's falling backwards and banging his head off the turf.
Speaker 3:Like this was like full on. You know, full speed from a defender head on collision like that is as bad as it gets and I just I look at it like this was preventable, like he was going down. I truthfully think the defender knew he was going down at that point. You don't have to do that and it was. I mean that the fact that you know he comes into that motion of like his hands up and it's like his hands up. That's not good. That's a lasting impact, you never know. So it's a shame he's just trying to make the play, get the first down and boom. Everything changes that quick, so it sucks, it does.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, 100% Prayers for Trevor Lawrence. I didn't see any reports that came out of that, but hopefully the best case scenario for that whole situation that we see Trevor Lawrence again at some point this season, just came back from injury and was talking about surgery already and then this and I mean it just sucks. That's just a sucky way for this all to go down there. So let's get. We're at the two-hour mark. We're going to try to get to two hours tonight and end it there, but we got a little bit over. I want to end it on one last question here for the night.
Speaker 1:One last question to everybody in the comments and to you guys here what's the second most valuable player behind the quarterback on an NFL football team? Like you're thinking the quarterback. You got to have that position figured out. You got to the quarterback, you gotta have that position figured out. You gotta have your guy at the quarterback position. What is the second most important position on the on an nfl roster? Like you gotta have this guy. You got not not a certain guy, but you gotta have a pretty darn good guy here it's gotta be tackle tackle.
Speaker 1:That's interesting, I like that. I like the tag.
Speaker 2:I did not expect anybody to say tackle somebody's gotta protect that prize quarterback if you don't have good tackles.
Speaker 1:I like that I like the tackle.
Speaker 2:That quarterback is not going to do well in this league. So I'm going to go tackle.
Speaker 3:Tackle.
Speaker 1:Aaron.
Speaker 3:Oh man, kyle might have already swayed me with that, because, like I'm so much of a pro for offensive line, like how many teams have bad like the Jets right that they have no offensive line? I was gonna say, on the flip side, because, let's say, you have a Mahomes right, you overcome a battle I mean that Super Bowl against Tampa Bay, he didn't overcome a bad offensive line. But like I was almost gonna go like cornerback, just because if you, okay, let's say your pass rush is average, your linebacking core is average, you've got the quarterback on the other side, you have an average receiving core, but you have a freak quarterback like Mahomes or something, but then you don't have any corners and your defense, like Cincinnati, they just get torched every week. I mean you're going to give up a ton of points.
Speaker 3:I always think of Darrell Rivas. Like there were teams he was on that. You know, maybe the pass rush wasn't amazing, this and that, but he could lock down the number one guy and now you're forcing the team to go to everybody else. Basically, so if you have that elite cornerback, I think I'd almost go that way. There's a lot of positions you could make the argument for, but, um, that's kind of where I'm at on that I was thinking a kicker, gotta have a good kicker, right, you gotta have a good kicker.
Speaker 1:Sometimes I mean kickers like the packers found out before we got brandon mcmanus. Now I mean kickers are hard to come by. When you got a good one, you got to keep that guy around, because if the other side ain't looking that good there, so uh, before I answer, jory says left tackle or running, so she's agreeing with the tackle there, or a running back spot. And John says defensive line or tight end.
Speaker 1:I was almost thinking middle linebacker. I was almost thinking middle linebacker like a Fred Warner kind of guy, like a guy who can help you in the pass game but also in the run game, because when you've got a good middle linebacker who can be a run stopper and control that defense, get calls, run everything right, like that's, it's hard to come by a good middle linebacker. The Packers right now are struggling to find a guy to sustain success in there. I know there's a lot of other teams who are still searching for that one linebacker that can be that guy for them. So middle linebacker is a big one. I do like the running back, though. You know the Dallas Cowboys, they didn't go after Derrick Henry, they didn't get anybody out there in the running back.
Speaker 1:That hurt because now you look at how bad their run game was at one point so I can agree with the running back. Tight end's interesting, I do. You got to have a good tight end.
Speaker 2:Tight end is the quarterback's best friend you got to have a good tight end.
Speaker 1:Like Dak Prescott with Jake Ferguson, george Kittle and Brock Purdy, kelsey and Patch Mahomes like you gotta have a good tight end. I I like that one. There that's a lot of good ones, I you know. I I honestly did not expect tackle. I did not expect tackle. Everybody was just throwing them all out there. I was like I was thinking running backs, you know everything like that. But wow, tackles, you gotta have good tack got to have good tackles. They're hard to come by. They're hard to come by out there having a good tackle.
Speaker 2:My second probably would have been edge, because the way some of these quarterbacks are, you need guys who put pressure on them, because Aaron did say cornerback and my only thought was I could have a really good secondary. But if I can't get pressure on, a quarterback won't look as good yeah, if I have an average secondary and I have a really good pass rush, I can make that secondary look better you're absolutely right, yeah yeah, yeah, 100.
Speaker 1:I like the defensive line. Look now, I really do middle linebacker and edge rusher. That's where I'm kind of sitting right there. If it wasn't, if it wasn't over on the offensive side, that's where'd be looking. Middle linebacker or an edge rusher, I really would Like a TJ Watt or a Fred Warner, like those two guys. If you can get guys like that on your football team, you build your defense from there, like you've got to have core pieces, and I think that that middle linebacker spot and the quarterback spot are those two core pieces that you've got to start with out there. So I mean, definitely I like that question, though I saw it on. I think I saw it on Twitter. I think I saw it on Twitter and I was like I'm going to ask it, I'm going to see what people think there. Christian Wendell said right, defensive end.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I could see it. Yeah, that would be the rusher on the blind side of the quarterback.
Speaker 1:So yeah, yeah, I could see that one there. John's naming off every tight end ever going down the list I was waiting for tony gonzalez. Where's tony gonzalez?
Speaker 2:out there and don't forget go ducks and I will give you aaron, aaron, aaron you have 30 seconds to defend your wait.
Speaker 1:no, we're getting close to the minute mark here. You have 30 seconds to defend your Penn State Nittany Lions against the Ducks. Ready Go.
Speaker 3:Okay, so you know, trajans, wisconsin Badgers, to plug them. They played the Ducks really hard. Penn State lost to Ohio State by a touchdown and Ohio State barely lost to the Ducks. The Ducks, I mean, yeah, they're a good football team, number one team in the nation. Are they the most unstoppable team of all time? I won't go that far. I'm nervous. I'm not going to lie to you. I don't love the matchup for Penn State for certain reasons. But should I get down on my hands and knees and praise the Oregon ducks this year? I don't think I should. I don't. I think they're beatable. I don't think this is like a juggernaut Alabama team from years past. I am worried about their pass rush. They can get after you like mad men, but they're beatable. I think you know. I'll be interested to see what the spread is for this game, but I get penn state a chance, uh, a decent chance. I just I am nervous for it. I'm not gonna lie. So keeping it uh, as 100 as I can with that. So yeah, sack sack, we'll see.
Speaker 2:We'll see.
Speaker 3:I mean, oregon doesn't have, oregon doesn't have james franklin well, that's hey, and I I'm the last guy to defend him, but against Minnesota he actually showed his cojones. For once. It's working. I was going to make you a James Franklin fan?
Speaker 2:It's getting there.
Speaker 3:No, no, no, I'm liking more of what he's done recently. That's all I can say. I'm not a fan. I don't like him. I've liked what he's done recently. I'm still not on board, though. I like the record, sure, but we'll see. I would love to beat Oregon. I mean, I would.
Speaker 2:The opening line is Oregon minus three and a half.
Speaker 1:I mean that's not huge. Oh, they're not giving them nothing in this game here.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm going to tell you this now, john you knock out Drew Allen, you're screwed. I would stick with him. You don't want none of Bo, you don't want none of that backup quarterback. I tell you what he comes in there and he just starts running around like a chicken with his head cut off and you don't know what to do anymore. It's just man.
Speaker 3:It's kind of like Trace McSorley 2 you over. I'm definitely. Yeah, I don't know. I just think this Oregon team hasn't. They've wowed me at times, but it's not like a complete product and I mean their defense is scary. I will say that. But this whole, like you know, penn State's going to get rolled. I mean they could I'm not going to say they can't, I mean they could, I'm not going to say they can't. The receiving core for Penn State is suspect, but I don't know. I just I'm not under this, taking bias out of it. As much as I'm kind of glass half empty at times, this Oregon team doesn't blow me away. I'll put it that way.
Speaker 1:John, they don't give you guys more than seven because you don't cover the spread. That's why.
Speaker 3:Vegas learned.
Speaker 1:I mean seven, because you don't cover the spread. That's why vegas learned I mean you had, they gave you 13 and a half against the badgers who had absolutely nothing, and you gave me three like that's why they don't give oregon the big spreads anymore is because they can't cover the spread. And vegas learned and they started knocking it down. So I mean I think it's gonna be a good game. I really do. I think you know oregon is a good football team, but that defense for Penn State they have a good front and they're going to give Dylan Gabriel trouble, just like Wisconsin gave him trouble on that night where they only won by three in Madison. And if we had a good quarterback we probably would have beat you and we wouldn't even be having this conversation right now. So, yeah, that's where it's at right now. So with that, anything else we got to add before we end it here yeah, give us hope. You gave us hope. You look like crap. That's what you look like. You gave us hope. No, no, no, you look like crap.
Speaker 3:Given Wisconsin hope, would be like 10 to 14. You were nervous. Don't lie to yourself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, dude, no hope. There was no hope to lead a game-winning drive or anything like that. The hope was lost and then you had a chop block call that the refs had to bail you out on Like thank you Maybe Oregon's the new Ohio State also? Oh, they're nuts. This is what happens when we bring the pack into the Big Ten. They just all go ballistic. All right, boys, anything else. We got to wrap us up here for the night.
Speaker 3:Kyle, where's Juan Soto's sign? Give me that.
Speaker 1:It's the every episode prediction.
Speaker 2:All this stuff, teasing that the Red Sox are aggressive with him. Don't do this to me. He's not coming to Boston. I don't think so. Never say never, never say never. I think Boston would be better served going like Burns Freed Teoscar. If that was their offseason, fine. I think Soto stays in New York. I think he goes to the Mets. I think the Mets will not allow him to not sign there. Like, if he wants 600, they'd probably go, we'll give you 750.
Speaker 3:And now you can't let the Dodgers sign him. You cannot because you know they're a player in this, that's the last thing we need, and they got Blake Snell already. So they have enough. They just stop. They have enough.
Speaker 1:I kind of want it the Blue.
Speaker 2:Jays supposedly are a sneaky team. Yeah, the Brewers are the dark horse too. The Brewers are the dark horse too.
Speaker 1:The Brewers are the dark horse on the back side of it.
Speaker 2:If the Red Sox got.
Speaker 1:Adamas, I would be fine with that. Nah, we couldn't afford Adamas. But we're the dark horse in the Juan Soto deal. Don't know how, but we're in it, we're in it there, snoop Dogg's becoming part owner of the team.
Speaker 3:He's just going to throw sheets everywhere at Juan Soto he might he just might.
Speaker 1:Pat Murphy and him are probably rolling up doobies in the dugout right now. So John says give me the Browns over the Broncos for an upset on Monday night there. Do we like it, buy it or sell it? Do we like it, sell it?
Speaker 3:Hot sale, hot sale.
Speaker 2:It's possible, but I would sell it I like the Broncos.
Speaker 1:I like the Broncos too. I think the Broncos will pull that one out. So, Aaron, anything else we got besides the Juan Soto.
Speaker 3:I never know where I'll see Kyle, so I needed to squeeze that in there to see what his thoughts were on that he squeezes it in Max Fried will be a Red Sox.
Speaker 2:Max Fried will be a Red Sox.
Speaker 1:Aaron's lying to you over there, chris.
Speaker 3:Sale 2.0, like a Chris Sale project he reminds me of.
Speaker 1:It'll fail there, he'll go back to the Braves and he'll light up the world. That's how I feel, hey.
Speaker 2:God.
Speaker 3:Whatever Cy Young winning Chris Sale, I mean who?
Speaker 2:would have thought this your career is broken. You come to Boston, you get some of that loving and you rehabilitate your career Like so what? It's all good, you don't rehabilitate it in.
Speaker 1:Boston though. You go back to the Braves and you rehabilitate it.
Speaker 3:Ask Chris.
Speaker 1:Sale.
Speaker 2:They're kind of finding it. Look, I rooted for Chris Sale when he went to Atlanta. I wanted him to work in Boston. That guy is balls to the wall like 24-7. It's just that his body broke down, so it is what it is. I was happy that he won the Cy Young.
Speaker 1:I was yeah, yeah, it was definitely great for him, and I mean great for baseball. Great comeback story, right, you got to have a great comeback story and that was a great comeback story of the year there. So well, John's out for the night there. We that was a great comeback story of the year there. So well, John's out for the night there. We'll catch you later, John. Thank you for tuning in tonight here on the show, but with that, for Aaron Kyle and myself, this has been Wisconsin Sports Time to Go with Trage. Thank you all for tuning in. We'll catch you guys back here on Wednesday, but until then, see ya, Thank you.