Green Light, Red Light, Real Science

What if the right light could turn down pain without turning your life upside down? We put red and green light therapy under a bright lens—no fluff, no fearmongering—to figure out what truly helps migraines, fibromyalgia, skin health, and recovery, and what’s just expensive mood lighting. With Avisha from Distilled Science, we dig into the physiology, the real-world dosing, and the mistakes that make promising tools look like magic or, just as often, like scams.

We start by demystifying red light therapy: mitochondrial targets, why the U-shaped dose curve matters, and how full-body beds can overshoot while a modest home panel, calibrated for distance and time, can get you better results. We contrast infrared saunas and red LEDs—different mechanisms, different outcomes—and explain penetration depth limits that make “joint healing” claims tricky. Then we pivot to green light’s surprising evidence for migraine and fibromyalgia. Low-intensity, diffuse green light—in the range of 4 to 100 lux for one to two hours—may both reduce sensory spikes in the visual pathway and trigger endogenous opioids, easing pain without meds. The catch: flicker and brightness can ruin the effect, so low-flicker LEDs, gentle ambient setup, and smart placement matter.

Beyond the lab talk, we call out healthy user bias and headline traps using the latest vitamin D–Alzheimer’s buzz as a cautionary tale. You’ll leave with practical, budget-friendly steps: how to read panel specs, how to choose distance and time for red light, how to build a migraine‑friendly green environment with commodity LEDs, and how to avoid the “more is better” myth that drives both costs and side effects. There’s humor, a few DeLorean asides, and a clear throughline: curiosity plus calibration beats hype.

If this helped you separate signal from noise, follow and subscribe, share it with a friend who gets migraines, and drop a review with your biggest light therapy question—we might test it next.

Chapters

• 0:00 Car Trouble And DeLorean Jokes
• 1:19 New York Rules Push A New Car
• 2:03 Green Light Project Introduced
• 3:03 Red Light Therapy: What It Does
• 4:53 Dosing, U‑Shaped Curves, And Risks
• 6:38 Saunas Versus Red Light Panels
• 9:38 Penetration Depth And Real Limits
• 12:48 Cheap Panels, Hype, And Specs
• 16:48 Healthy User Bias And Supplements
• 19:48 Vitamin D, Bad Studies, And Safety
• 22:48 Caffeine Powder And Measurement
• 25:28 Guest Intro And Mission
• 26:18 Green Light For Migraines
• 28:18 Why Green Can Reduce Pain
• 30:28 Fibromyalgia Findings With Green
• 32:08 How To Get The Right Green Dose
• 34:28 Flicker, Lux, And LED Choices
• 36:38 Cones, Diffuse Light, And Design
• 38:38 Daily Color “Recipe” And Humor
• 41:48 Merch Concepts And STEM Store
• 45:28 OnlyFacts QR And Science Fun
• 48:18 Wrap Up And DeLorean Fund

Transcript

Car Trouble And DeLorean Jokes

SPEAKER_01 0:18

And now I'm like, do I just get a new car? At this point, do I just fucking buy a new car and trade it in and have hey, take this car for parts?

SPEAKER_00 0:25

Sounds like you need DeLorean. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:27

I want a fucking DeLorean so badly. God.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

Welcome to Inmoderation, where we're still talking about DeLoreans.

SPEAKER_01 0:34

I my car may be going away. My car might be going away because of New York. Because of New York. That's why they have taxes and this, and not just taxes, but inspections on everything. So I might just be forced into a new car. And if I'm forced into a new car, there's only one reasonable option. It starts with a duh and ends with an Alorian.

SPEAKER_02 0:55

And if we know anything, it's that it's never too far in the future for a DeLorean to be the right choice.

SPEAKER_01 1:01

Now, do we you were here when we talked about it? The new one's like$250,000. The new one, they're making, they're remaking it, and the starting price is a quarter million dollars. I'm like, well, fuck that. I can't do that. But like an old 80, what is that, 83 or whatever, is like 50 grand. 50 grand for a joke that I might use. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:18

They know their audience.

SPEAKER_01 1:19

Yeah. I'm frustrated. But anyway, how are you doing, Avisha?

SPEAKER_02 1:23

Pretty good. Pretty good. I'm in the middle of a very elongated project around green lights.

SPEAKER_01 1:31

Green lights. Okay, what are you doing? You grow in shit? Or is it the uh thing?

SPEAKER_00 1:35

With regards to um uh fibromyalgia?

SPEAKER_02 1:40

Fibromyalgia, migraines, any sort of neuropathic pain.

Green Light Project Introduced

SPEAKER_01 1:44

Now I've heard of red light therapy. I'm assuming this is green light therapy, which does the opposite of what red light therapy does. It means gun.

SPEAKER_02 1:50

Sort of, right? There's sort of like perpendicular. Like you're you've got three different color processing units, different cones. You've got your red sensitive, green sensitive, and blue sensitive. Okay. And the blue sensitive are responsible for things like triggering your circadian rhythm, melatonin cycles. The red, the main purpose of red light therapy is to sort of get absorbed by cytochrome peoxidase, increase energy within the mitochondria, which can be beneficial in a variety of different ways. Not as beneficial as people will tell you, but there is a good amount of research about it having some benefits for like wound healing and skin health.

SPEAKER_01 2:28

I've seen that for like just like, yeah, for as far as your skin goes, like some topical, like what like there's some things, but as far as like just super energizing your mitochondria, it's like, well, maybe not so much.

Red Light Therapy: What It Does

SPEAKER_02 2:40

Ironically, when it comes to those like big red light beds where you can go to these bougie health spas and get entirely surrounded by everything, what they don't generally realize and tell you is that there's actually a U-shaped curve for efficacy when it comes to red light. Too little, you're not gonna get an effect. Too high of a dose, and you're also not gonna get an effect because you can sort of overload the system, and rather than increasing energy availability, instead you're increasing reactive oxygen species being generated by the absorption of said things.

SPEAKER_01 3:07

So what is what how much red light am I supposed like from like a traffic stop? Like that's that amount of red light, like how much red light do I need here?

SPEAKER_02 3:17

The amount that you would need for a beneficial effect on your like skin and hair is in the realm of two or three minutes of a very high intensity panel or 10 to 20 minutes of a lower intensity panel. It is far, far stronger than you would get from a uh any type of traffic light. Like, for example.

SPEAKER_01 3:38

Oh, damn. I had a whole fucking business plan set up. Hey, there we go. Red light. That didn't sound good. There it goes. There it goes the red light. Red light needs stop. Oh, that's so much.

SPEAKER_00 3:48

That's that's intense red.

SPEAKER_01 3:50

Okay. Because okay, I've seen my wife talk about this. She wants to get one of those like I don't know, like they're little canvas things that you get into, like they're the little like squares that have the little like zipper that you get into them and they flash the red light. Is that like, are those things even good enough to be worth it, or is that just wasteful?

SPEAKER_02 4:08

Wait, I say that again. I had headphones while I was doing it.

SPEAKER_01 4:10

They're little portable ones. Basically, you set up like your basement or some shit, and they've got a little zipper, and you get in kind of like a little steam sauna thing.

SPEAKER_02 4:17

So those are infrared saunas, those are a totally different thing. What what what how diff what different what is so an infrared sauna is trying to get you the sauna benefit of actually elevating body temperature, and that's like a totally different effect as compared to the red light.

Dosing, U‑Shaped Curves, And Risks

SPEAKER_01 4:34

Does the red light do anything in it then, or is they just throwing that in for people who have no idea?

SPEAKER_02 4:38

When they include red light in those things, it's I don't it really depends on what they're doing. Like the majority of them are probably not giving you a strong enough red light to do much. I'm sure there are some brands that do, but at the same time, the problem is the benefit that you get from a sauna requires a high enough treatment duration that a most infrared saunas are not really getting you up to enough temperature to really get that benefit. And if they are, then they've already gone too high on the red light if they have a reasonably strong red light for the most part. So, like are these things like incompatible then?

SPEAKER_01 5:10

Like you shouldn't have them together because they kind of have different time lengths that you should be doing the thing.

SPEAKER_02 5:16

If it was really well calibrated, you can do it because it's all about the total like energy dose that your skin is receiving. And that has to do with your intensity of light, your distance from the light, and your exposure time. So theoretically, if someone was really calibrating this properly, they could dial it in so that time under heat is equal to dose required. The thing is, even then, like what most people also just completely go over is they'll tell you that red light can be good for like your joints and muscles and bones, but also for your skin and your hair. However, penetration depth drops off exponentially every millimeter like it goes in the human body. So the amount of exposure that is required in order to have a benefit on your like joints is typically going to be high enough that you sort of already overload it on skin.

SPEAKER_01 6:03

So it's so we need to go through the skin. We need like needles that go in there, and then the red light through the right.

SPEAKER_00 6:10

You need to inject the red light, ultra red light or whatever.

Saunas Versus Red Light Panels

SPEAKER_01 6:13

Red light injectables. Is that what red 40 is for mostly? So that when I take in the red 40, since it's red, it heals my body from the inside.

SPEAKER_02 6:21

That's what I'm hearing. We can propose that to RFK and see how he does.

SPEAKER_01 6:26

Bro, I'm telling you, red light, no, not red light, red 40 capsules, like supplement form that we sell in. It's just red 40 that people take.

SPEAKER_02 6:36

Um, I did a video a while back on yellow five, and there was a really cool study where they used it, they take a lot of yellow five, and they put it on the skin of a mouse, or maybe it was a rat that was shaved, and it turns the skin translucent, allowing them to see their organs using visible light.

SPEAKER_01 6:54

I think I've seen, I don't know if I saw you do, I think I've seen this before.

SPEAKER_02 6:59

So like We made some headlines. I did a video like, I don't know, a little over a year ago, something like that. But it's super freaky and cool. It the way it has to do with the way that the Yellow Five works with the normally it would be like ref your skin will be reflecting certain wavelengths of light, making it opaque, but here it's like absorbing enough and allowing the others to pass through and out. It's a fascinating effect.

SPEAKER_01 7:21

So theoretically, it could work on human too.

SPEAKER_02 7:24

Yeah, if no telling enough, yeah, exactly. I would not recommend, you know, we have not actually done human safety trials on that high amount, but but that would be a fucking sick Halloween costume, I'll tell you that much.

SPEAKER_01 7:37

You're walking around with just no organ showing. I mean, if we're looking for like a case study, I'm sure someone out there is willing to do it. Fear Factor's back on on TV. I don't know if you've seen that. Now, yeah. Now it's who's it hosted by a different, I forgot who they oh, Johnny Knoxville. Johnny Knoxville's doing it. Get let's get in contact with them. Say next year for Halloween, cover someone in yellow five and just see if we see what happens. Someone will sign a waiver for that.

SPEAKER_02 8:03

I'm sure someone would. I'm sure someone would. I mean, I'm I'm for it. It sounds super cool.

SPEAKER_01 8:09

Okay, so red, okay. So we were talking about so the red light, yeah. So the saunas then like just maybe, maybe not the not the best. So you would really need like a a dedicated red light therapy. Like a good like what do you have to do? Do you have to pay like a thousand, like five thousand dollars to generally to get like a good enough one?

SPEAKER_02 8:25

What's actually no? So the problem is like I had this video in my to-do list that I have already like mostly scripted and filmed, whatever. Uh Huberman has one of his sponsors is Juve, which is like the red light company, one of the top in the space. And if you really listen to the ad, it's like what makes these guys so good is their clinically proven frequencies of red light to have XYZ benefits. Now, on the one hand, it does have most of the benefits stated, although the magnitude is typically not there. And as I said before, you have to dose it carefully. The problem is the reason why almost every red light panel has like uh 660 nanometer wavelength for red light is predominantly because that's the type of LEDs that we make on the cheap for mass market. So that's what I'm just gonna do.

SPEAKER_01 9:17

They put them in a light.

Penetration Depth And Real Limits

SPEAKER_02 9:18

It they it's economies of scale. The LED market is very large, and if you want to get efficient LED panels that are red, which we need to have a pretty much pure red, pure green, pure blue in order to get all the different colors, it just makes sense to have pure red. So, for the most part, the majority of scientific studies done on red light are using the same very narrow bandwidth of red because that's just what was available, and that is like the predominant red. If you look at the panel I just showed you that I got for like 300 bucks from China, is essentially equivalent to like the$1,500,$2,000 panel that you can buy from these big name brands, and it uses the same clinically proven frequencies because it's just the same. It you can't patent a wavelength of light, and those are what you get. There are some panels that'll use like 660, 680, and then like a couple different, like maybe 730, like they'll have like four or five different ones throughout the red and near infrared spectrum. And there's a limited amount of research indicating that maybe you might be boosting efficacy a little bit there. Uh but it's still like nascent stages of research, and you're getting most of the benefit just from you get a high enough intensity, you get the right sort of lensing on it, you get the like uh the dirt cheap ones do nothing. Like uh, for example, where did this thing go?

SPEAKER_01 10:33

I mean, I usually you pay dirt cheap for something and it's not gonna work. Except for beans. That's the only thing you can pay dirt cheap, and it's really good. It's true.

SPEAKER_02 10:41

There's like there was a video going viral on TikTok a while back about like this thing. It's like a use different light therapy to little handheld ones. Do something on your your face.

SPEAKER_01 10:50

Yes. And at least nothing.

SPEAKER_02 10:52

The thing about that is as I said, the efficacy is all about d intensity and treatment time. When you're doing this up and down the face, you know how long you would have to spend on each part of your skin to actually get to the point of doing anything?

SPEAKER_00 11:07

More than three seconds? It'd be more effective to do the stop light.

SPEAKER_02 11:11

Yeah, exactly. You know, if you spend 10 minutes on each part of your skin, this light might be enough to do something.

SPEAKER_01 11:17

I see what you're saying. Okay. So yeah, a little handheld's probably not great.

SPEAKER_02 11:20

No, but you can't get a square panel for like 40-50 bucks that is actually enough to do the full face, full head. Really?

SPEAKER_01 11:27

Okay, because I always expected those ones that are like 40 bucks. I'm like, that's some bullshit. That does nothing. I assume that's it.

SPEAKER_02 11:31

If you pay 40, 50 bucks on Amazon, I don't know. I haven't looked at them recently, although I might be doing some testing soon. Uh, if you go straight to AliExpress where all the like you're just going to the original factories that all of like the influencers are white labeling and jacking up the price.

SPEAKER_01 11:45

Definitely.

SPEAKER_02 11:45

Right. Like I have a cheap one that I've measured. It does the job.

SPEAKER_01 11:50

Interesting. But they all kind of do a similar thing because it's they're all using like LEDs.

SPEAKER_02 11:54

Yeah. Pretty much.

SPEAKER_01 11:56

The main thing is you got What are they charging at like these spas that do like red light therapy? Did they just blast the shit out of you and hope you think that means it's better? Or like are they using something better, or is they just using the same shit, just more of it?

SPEAKER_02 12:08

What they're typically doing is for the really high-end ones, they're using like a red light bed, so you're getting your entire body at once. Oftentimes I would say they're doing too much.

SPEAKER_01 12:17

Like literally, it's you don't need your butthole shined, is what you're saying. Or is there if they're efficacy in like butthole healing from red light?

SPEAKER_02 12:24

You know, I can't say that there's been any research on that.

SPEAKER_01 12:27

How many studies? There are there any meta-analysis.

SPEAKER_02 12:30

Does it help with hemorrhoids?

SPEAKER_01 12:31

There you go, hemorrhoids.

SPEAKER_02 12:33

I actually age at very high doses, it can be a little bit antimicrobial by dint of you sort of producing a lot of extra reactive oxygen species. Hence the dose to deal with acne in clinical trials is like five to ten times the amount to deal with like other skin benefits because you're sort of overloading the rest to try to overload the bacteria, and then like that's a different sort of range of dosages.

SPEAKER_01 12:58

Okay. Interesting. So yeah, so what were you saying? So the the they just overload you.

SPEAKER_02 13:02

So they just charge you for two or three sessions is how much it would cost to get a perfectly functional panel at home.

SPEAKER_01 13:07

Right. It just and for people who just like have the.

SPEAKER_02 13:14

Oh, yeah. I mean, it depends on the sizing. Like the panel I showed you is like a half-body panel that costs, again, like probably 300 bucks now.

SPEAKER_01 13:20

Okay, so maybe red light therapy, some benefits potentially, and you can get something for relatively cheap if you want to try.

SPEAKER_02 13:28

Pretty much. Just be careful about doing it for too much. Got to make sure to really dial in the dosage.

SPEAKER_01 13:34

Yeah, should you start off at like a minute or two with like red light therapy or like a few minutes?

SPEAKER_02 13:38

Or like you just kind of it's not something that you need to like work your body up to. It's it's not really an adaptive sort of thing. It's more just you need to look at the actual power output of your panel for a given treatment distance and then figure out the amount of exposure. I've actually been thinking about publishing like a calculator where you can like input the specs. That would be cool. Yeah. That would be a lot of light measuring devices around me.

SPEAKER_01 14:04

Right. Not not every house has let me get this light measuring device. It's a little bit different than the other one I have. Let's check the red light. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 14:12

Got it. But you can look up the specs on whatever you purchase, and that should give you an estimate. And as long as it's reasonably accurate to claimed specs, you can then go from there.

SPEAKER_01 14:22

Now, I'm just gonna be perfectly honest with you. I'm never probably gonna do the red light thing. I never have, and I will because I'm just like, this is like so I that gets into that like percentage where you're trying to be like uber extra healthy. And I'm like, I'm not a hooberman, I don't care. Like, I'm just like, oh well, I I had some vegetables on my sandwich, so like that's cool. And I'm more in I feel like I'm more in that group, but like I find it interesting that people that are like, oh yeah, that's red light therapy and the specific melatonin introduction, and blah blah blah, like, yeah, that's neat, but like it gives me a measure of how much to roll my eyes when people are talking about it. I get yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:57

It is fun though. One thing that I will say positive about the whole space is oftentimes you're gonna find the people who are focused on that type of stuff, on average, a lot healthier than everyone else, because they the fact that they're doing that sort of thing makes health as a part of their identity. So that allows them to do other things that other people would otherwise that's a lot of other that allows them to perform activities, to eat things that are normally more in the way of requiring willpower, but because they have defined themselves as an uber healthy individual, not to be confused with a uber healthy individual.

SPEAKER_01 15:31

They're very similar though, so you have to it's there's there's a lot, the Venn diagram is overlapping a lot between the Uber and the Uber. I should make a t-shirt. Uber healthy, hoober healthy, uber healthy, and there's like very little on the sides that's different, but there's a couple differences.

SPEAKER_02 15:46

But having spent a lot of time in like the biohacking space, the very health-obsessed space, most of those people have a lot of things wrong in their mind about what actually is ideal for health, but because it requires the baselines to even get there, most of them are very healthy people because they're exercising, they're eating, they're like not to mention the uh disposable income if they're affording these devices.

SPEAKER_01 16:11

Yeah, that's what I've seen this on um what you call like organic vegetable consumption. Like people who eat organic vegetables are healthier. It's like the well, they're just eating more vegetables. It's not compared to the people who are eating the same amount of conventional produce, they're just eating more like fucking fruits and vegetables, and that shit's healthy, and they also can afford organic, so they're doing other shit. Like, that's why they're healthier.

SPEAKER_02 16:30

Healthy user bias. Last week, my mother sent me an email. She was like, Can you look at this study? Maybe it's something that would be good for you to talk about. And the study was looking at vitamin D supplementation for the treatment or the prevention of Alzheimer's.

SPEAKER_00 16:47

Oh, I saw that.

SPEAKER_02 16:48

Now, the thing about it is all the articles were talking about vitamin D like supplementation is linked to something like 40% reduction in Alzheimer's. So she's like, I'm in of the age where I should start worrying about this. Should I be taking all this vitamin D? And you look at the study, and it was an observational study that did not measure vitamin D levels before, during, or after. They did not even look at how much vitamin D people were either consuming in their diet before, during, or after, or even supplementing. All they did was ask, are you taking a vitamin D supplement at the beginning, at the end? And they saw that the people who were taking a vitamin D supplement had lower Alzheimer's rates. Now, that could be A, people who were deficient in vitamin D and taking the supplement, it may have helped because when you go from deficiency to not, that can definitely benefit the body in all sorts of ways. But also, if you are of the type of person to be taking supplements, then you are probably of the socioeconomic class and health-seeking behavior level that there's all sorts of other stuff going on. So this study itself was absolutely worthless to say take vitamin D supplements and prevent Alzheimer's, but it showed a link.

SPEAKER_01 17:56

And it sells vitamin D very well. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:58

I asked my mother, I was like, were was there any link on that page to a vitamin D supplement?

SPEAKER_01 18:02

I mean, it's I mean, I don't know. Like with vitamin D, people ask me, I'm like, it's cheap. So if you want to take, you know, a low, you know, whatever, you want to take the lexer. And a lot of people I know.

SPEAKER_00 18:11

If you live in Canada during winter, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:14

I work from my basement. I even during the summer, I put little vitamin D powder in my coffee every morning because might as well stay topped off. It's such the doses are in like micrograms. So like I have a custom powder that I mix with my coffee and it's like a tiny bit. Can you buy it in powder for me?

SPEAKER_01 18:31

I know with a lot of the supplements, it's a little like I mean, with especially with some supplements that are like fat soluble or whatever, it's real risky because you could just be like, oh, milligram, gram, that's the same thing. Put it in there and then you're fucked, right?

SPEAKER_00 18:42

That is vitamin D things you buy at the store are just compressed powder.

SPEAKER_02 18:46

They're powder with a lot of filler because vitamin D, you need such a small amount that your what your pill is mostly filler and a tiny bit of active powder. So I buy the pure powder and put like But you can buy the pure powder?

SPEAKER_01 18:56

I didn't even know you could do that.

SPEAKER_02 18:57

Bulk supplements has the pure powder of most type of supplements.

SPEAKER_01 19:01

So I've seen I used to I I used to be able to like purchase, I I think I bought at one point caffeine powder. I think that's right over there. Yeah, they I feel like they stopped because there was definitely people who were like instead who did grams instead of milligrams. You know, like five milligrams of caffeine and five and five grams.

SPEAKER_02 19:20

Five grams is fifty percent the lethal dosage.

SPEAKER_01 19:23

Is it 10 grams the lethal dosage? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:26

Okay. You gotta be very careful with powdered caffeine.

Vitamin D, Bad Studies, And Safety

SPEAKER_01 19:29

Yeah, so like I don't even really see it too much anymore because it's so easy to overdo, and like caffeine's more toxic than I think people realize.

SPEAKER_02 19:36

If you're taking caffeine pure, use it in pill form where the dose is pre-measured, unless you're someone like me who has a jewelry scale and you know it's nerdy. They sell rat poison.

SPEAKER_01 19:51

That's a fair point. That is true, but typically I don't know. Like, just like we you know, like okay, let's say no, I have to work towards the lowest common denominator. You have to work with that, right? Like the people that don't realize Graham versus Miller. And plus we're in a fucking we're in America. Mike, we're in America. Did you know that? We're in America where people don't understand the metric system.

SPEAKER_03 20:11

Holy shit. I didn't need bad news when I got on here.

SPEAKER_01 20:15

Where we use, we use what do we even use in America? The how what what system do we use? What's the order system?

SPEAKER_02 20:24

I don't even know what it's called. It's called the scientists' hate us system.

SPEAKER_01 20:29

Basically, right? So, like you tell a person with like who has like a bag of poison, which is caffeine. Oh, now you gotta work with milligrams and grams, the chances of them fucking up are pretty high.

SPEAKER_02 20:41

Oh, yeah. That's what I'm saying. Oh yeah. So you gotta be very careful when you get the pure stuff, but it is something. Actually, I got it because I was doing a hair regrowth experiment and topical or also certain skincare stuff. Like topical caffeine has certain interesting effects that are totally separate from the systemic.

SPEAKER_00 20:58

Tell me more.

SPEAKER_01 20:59

Yeah, Rob's interested for anyway.

SPEAKER_00 21:02

Just before you tell us anything else, maybe you should tell us about yourself.

SPEAKER_01 21:06

Hey, he's been on multiple times. Go back and watch the other. No, go ahead. I will.

SPEAKER_03 21:11

This time we're all wearing shirts. Yes, we are wearing shirts. Isn't that cool? Yeah, I've got some businessy stuff I gotta do. So I just wanted to drop in and say hi, everyone. Hey, it's Mike Needs a plan.

SPEAKER_01 21:22

Uh yeah, drop some wisdom on people before you go.

SPEAKER_03 21:24

Uh, do I feel like is there any housekeeping I gotta do? No, nothing. Can't think of it. I'm sure I'll think of it as soon as I hang up.

SPEAKER_01 21:31

Uh hey, give us some wise words before you go. We want some.

SPEAKER_03 21:34

Did you already ask Avishia like what he does, just in case anyone doesn't know him?

SPEAKER_01 21:38

We were just we were just doing. Cool. We were just doing.

SPEAKER_03 21:42

Sorry, I'm a little scatterbrained right now. I need a manager for the man. Am I like the manager now?

SPEAKER_01 21:48

Sure. It doesn't, who cares? Doesn't matter. Yes, no, all of it.

SPEAKER_03 21:52

Um with the plan. Don't be your best is going to be my my thing for the day. Don't be your best because people, if you start to be your best, people will expect more of you. I like it. You won't be able to get away with as much.

SPEAKER_01 22:05

Low expectations.

SPEAKER_03 22:06

Low expectations.

SPEAKER_01 22:08

Lower the bar.

SPEAKER_03 22:08

Lower the bar. Be kind to yourself, everybody. Seacrest out. All right.

SPEAKER_00 22:16

I like that random mic interjection.

SPEAKER_01 22:18

Yeah, it's like a word. We don't have sponsors, we have microisms that just come in for a little bit. What we say, yeah. All right, fine. Introduce yourself. Yeah, yeah. Tell the people.

Caffeine Powder And Measurement

SPEAKER_02 22:29

Do the spiel. My name is Avisha. I have a channel called Distilled Science, where I try to help people walk that line between cutting edge science that could actually be applied to help improve lives and misinformation. And unfortunately, a lot of that you're going to see in the realm of science applied to health is more along the lines of misinformation. So I tend to spend a lot of time doing that.

SPEAKER_01 22:49

Yeah. So, okay, tell us take us back to the green light thing, though. What's going on with this?

SPEAKER_00 22:53

Back to the green light, because I was actually very interested in that.

SPEAKER_02 22:56

So I did a video a little over a year ago on a study that had come out where they looked at the use of green light to treat migraines. And by exposing people, they had them sit between three and six feet away, one to two meters, from a string of green LEDs for one to two hours per day. They saw a reduction in both frequency and severity of migraines. They were not staring directly at the lights, they were doing like listening to music, reading a book while the lights were in their field of vision, but they were not directly looking at them. And this was interesting.

SPEAKER_01 23:29

Were they allowed to be like on their phone when they were like no other light sources in the room? That's what I was curious about. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 23:36

Yeah. Because so this was motivated by a much earlier study back in 2016, where they were trying to go and look at what was it for people who have migraine photophobia, so they're sensitive to light, which wavelengths of light were they most susceptible to? So around 80 to 90% of people with migraines are susceptible to light, it'll make things worse. And they tried to figure out what types of light will make things the worsest. The worst scientist, not an English person. Worstest. Yeah, I'm with it. No, I'm I'm the worst form of light. Yeah. So they put these people in a very uh high-tech little helmet where they were able to flash different types of light while also measuring pupillary response and brain response. And what they found was actually something very surprising, which is that when they were exposed to white, green, sorry, white, red, and blue light, it made the migraines worse. But the green light actually ended up reducing the intensity of the migraines and the lower green light a little bit more than the higher green light.

SPEAKER_01 24:37

And that's because green comes from nature and nature good for body. You and the rest of the people in my comment section. Yeah. I want to be the comment, I want to be the dumb comment section, people that brings up the the really important points.

Guest Intro And Mission

SPEAKER_02 24:51

What's fascinating about it is there's sort of two different pathways going on. So on the first, there's the fact that people suffering from migraines are essentially, it's like their nervous system is oversensitized to stimuli. And the stronger the stimulus, the more it's going to trigger things and cause problems. So they were, they brought everyone back in that study and they measured brain activity while exposing them to the different lights again. And what they found was that when they were exposed to green light, it actually produced the smallest spike of electrical activity in the like retina and thalamus for certain types of like waveforms.

SPEAKER_01 25:29

Well I did an EEG. I've done those before. You put up a bunch of like wires on their head and shit like that.

Green Light For Migraines

SPEAKER_02 25:33

Yeah, pretty much. Like uh, this is a more nuanced version of it, but essentially that's what they're doing. Yes, they're using like electrodes to measure electrical spikes. Yeah. And they found a lower like magnitude of electrical spiking with regards to green as opposed to when they were exposed to red, white, or blue. Which that right there is why when if you're talking about any type of electrical spike coming from the retina triggering the trigeminal nerve, triggering the like a cascade which leads to pain with migraines, if green is producing the least of the spiking, then uh the theory is that that's producing the lowest uh stimulus for triggering the migraine. It's that's one thing. Exactly. But if that were the case, then you would have seen the least triggering from the green light, but still a triggering. What they ended up finding though was that it did trigger it in some people, but for some people it also made it less bad, which was fascinating. So more research found that exposure to green light actually triggers the production of endogenous endogenous opioids, uh opiates opioids, where essentially it's triggering the anti-ceptive properties, it's triggering the pain relief. Got it, yeah. So there's it's not just a this is the least bad, but this is actually actively painkilling.

SPEAKER_00 26:54

But can we get high off it?

SPEAKER_01 26:55

How much green light? What's the efficacious I will leave for I will leave that for you through to figure out about the high one.

SPEAKER_02 27:02

But report back.

SPEAKER_01 27:03

Do we use this in combination with shrooms, or is this its own thing? That's my question.

SPEAKER_02 27:08

The question is with shrooms, will you still perceive it as green or will you still get it? Oh no!

SPEAKER_01 27:13

Oh god, the body gets confused. Now we need a new study. Take this, tell us what lights you see, and then we'll figure out from there.

SPEAKER_00 27:22

And so recently the uh green light stuff was also tied into fibromyalgia?

Why Green Can Reduce Pain

SPEAKER_02 27:26

Yes. So the same group of researchers, after running these human trial on migraines, tried to see, hey, can this help fibromyalgia patients? Because essentially, if we're talking about the uh analgesic effect of it, rather than the trick like the photosensitive one with migraines, with fibromyalgia, it's just their whole nervous system is sort of on overdrive. And systemic central nervous system level pain killing could be helpful. So they found this is a pretty small study with only 21 people, but when they had them do the exact same protocol of one to two hours per day in front of the green LEDs, they had a very significant lowering of the like frequency and intensity of their fibromyalgia pain symptoms and an increase in their ability to do chores.

SPEAKER_01 28:08

An increase in their ability to do chores, which you could say is good or a bad thing, depending on who's okay. This it's definitely yeah, I mean, that's definitely interesting. So wait, are you doing something with an hour? Are you setting up a green light room?

SPEAKER_02 28:20

Um given the fact that what you need is very, very low light intensity still for the optimal treatment. So, like uh we measure light intensity that hits a surface in lux, and they measured between four and a hundred lux, between three and six feet away as the ideal. Earlier rodent rodent studies found that when you subjected them, when you subjected them to like 300 lux, the beneficial effects disappeared, which is sort of a negative when you think about the nature explanation, it it raises some questions because when you're outdoors in nature, the total light you're getting exposed to is in the thousands of luxury, it's way more than just the hundreds. So there's a lot of interesting things that we don't still don't fully understand there. But in general, it's sometimes a challenge to actually get a low enough light level as opposed to get a high enough light, which is why the really expensive green light companies, like there's a company called the Alley Lamp, which charges between two and three hundred dollars for their green light therapy lamp with a patented wavelength of light. Now, I think we discussed this earlier. But uh like this is another light that uh let's lower the very green, very light. Intensity did let's see, can I get this in camera now? Yeah, so this is sort of similar to the LA lamp. It's only$80 as opposed to like$300, but$80 is also way too much for something like this because what you need is just green light. And the green light that comes from my LEDs over here or from my cheaper, more multifunctional, like in general, when you have RGB lights, they're gonna be having green, blue, and red LEDs to produce the full color spectrum. And if you can use the app and say just go to green, in general, that's gonna be the same patented frequency of light as you're gonna be getting from the$200,$300 lamp.

SPEAKER_00 30:07

Because standardized mass production.

Fibromyalgia Findings With Green

SPEAKER_01 30:09

Yeah. What I'm hearing is Christmas is coming up, right? Christmas, where the two colors generally red and green. So you definitely Decorate your Christmas tree just green. Boom. Problem solved.

SPEAKER_02 30:21

There you go. You know what's funny? So right now I'm actually wearing contacts that some brand sent me the middle of testing out. They block out blue light and a lot of red light. So like I'm getting a very green sort of perception. And that's why my eyes look so dark.

SPEAKER_01 30:36

Yeah, I can I can see that.

SPEAKER_02 30:38

Like they're a little demonic. I just thought you were high.

SPEAKER_01 30:40

Yeah, I mean high on the green light.

SPEAKER_02 30:43

It's not an either-or situation, but what's funny is they have two different types of contacts. The ones I was wearing yesterday were red and oh, they make you look like a demon.

SPEAKER_01 30:52

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 30:53

That's fun. Which is a lot cooler than this.

SPEAKER_01 30:55

Wait, is that why people are happy at Christmas time? Because you're getting both red and green light therapy at the same time? Exactly. I think that's why we've solved it all. We've solved it all. I think that's why people like Christmas. It's the red and green light. You get both of them.

SPEAKER_02 31:08

Who the hell is that?

SPEAKER_00 31:09

And that's why Christmas comes earlier every year.

SPEAKER_01 31:12

We need that red and green light therapy. That's interesting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:15

But right now, like right over there on my couch, I have 20 different products of different forms of like RGB lamps, green lamps, green night lights, and I'm in the middle of testing them all out to figure out which ones can actually produce the right wavelength. And one of the problems is you need to get it dim enough. But the way a lot of LEDs will dim is by flickering on and off very quickly, which can cause headaches.

SPEAKER_00 31:38

Yeah, I remember that. If I recall correctly, they um they like put tape over the LEDs. They did, yeah, very good. Yeah.

How To Get The Right Green Dose

SPEAKER_02 31:45

So they rather than putting the dimmer switch on, they taped two out of the three LEDs on the strip so that they got a dim enough one. However, what I have been finding is that the better brands of LED strips, the way they dim is with pulse pulsed width modulation at a high enough frequency after already mostly converting to DC, that essentially they're going on and off between 1200 and 2,000 times per second, which is above the threshold that will really cause the problems. It's when you're in the hundreds of hertz cycling on and off that you really get the headache issues. So what that means is that a lot of these products, which are just the normal multicolor LED stuffs, will likely be fine when it comes to getting this effect. One thing that both those like the researchers never talked about, and there it has not come up in any of my research, but makes complete sense if you look at enough science of optics, is the rods in your eye are responsible for processing like low light contrast. That's what you're mostly using when it's very, very dim. And that's why when it's like really dark out, you mostly don't have much color perception. It's just like all shades of gray. So the rods are not really responsible for the beneficial effect of green light when it comes to treating pain. It's really the cones. And the cones are mostly only functional in your primary focus area. So they're not really doing much in your peripheral vision. You're getting most of your color vision out of your central focus. And when it comes to a single light, like, you know, the two or three hundred dollar lamp, what you want is to get enough of the cones being saturated by the green light within your primary view. So when the researchers did a study on the LED strips, that's actually a lot better. If you're sitting there and looking at like a book and you're sort of getting this pervasive green at a low level, my theory is that you're gonna get a better effect rather than having a single bright source, which bright sources with high contrast can also trigger headaches. So my guess is the ideal is gonna be a more diffuse green light at a low intensity rather than like if you can get it dim enough and you're reading with like the lamp right in front of you and you've got the book and it's dim in the right level, that'll probably be fine. But it's like another point where you need to calibrate properly to get the good benefit, and these companies don't talk about it at all.

Flicker, Lux, And LED Choices

SPEAKER_01 34:02

I feel like in the study, another benefit is just say it telling people, like, yeah, you can't be on your phone while this is happening. Just if you have to read a book, fucker. Stop like scroll doom scrolling Instagram for a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 34:14

There was a control though, where they were spending 10 weeks with white LEDs and 10 weeks with green LEDs. So the control group, yeah, the control group did not experience the same benefits. It's not just that they were sitting in a comm room for that amount of time not using their phones. Although it is actually possible using the uh like assistive device settings on a phone to put a green filter over the phone so that the only light coming out is in the green spectrum.

SPEAKER_01 34:40

Okay. So what colors should people go with then? What do you after everything? What are what are we doing? Are we going red? We go in green, we go in both. Do we start in the morning with red and then uh before night? Before like I want the analgesic effects before I go to bed. I'm gonna go green.

SPEAKER_02 34:53

If you want the full recipe of colors, essentially, what you would want is in the early morning, you want the blue light to properly set your circadian rhythm and I want full Huberman. I want full Huberman. That's right. So you wake up at 4 a.m. and you start sprinting.

SPEAKER_01 35:08

Yes, and you get the blue light. Okay, I'm with you. We're waiting 90 minutes for coffee. I remember that. We wait 90 minutes for the coffee.

SPEAKER_02 35:14

You wait 90 minutes. You you come back, and after you've gotten that blue light in your the proper the proper part of your eye, then you jump into your cold plunge, where in the cold plunge you're surrounded by red lights.

SPEAKER_01 35:24

Oh, at the same time, I like it.

SPEAKER_02 35:26

Yeah, because that way you're getting like the uh the anti-inflammatory effects of the cold combined with the red. It's you and why waste time, really?

SPEAKER_01 35:34

They don't counter counteract each other. They they're the it's a symbiotic relationship, is what you're telling me. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 35:41

Does it count if the ice plunge is just red 40?

SPEAKER_01 35:44

Ooh. Just a wait, a bucket, like it's a giant bat of red 40.

SPEAKER_00 35:48

A bucket of icy red 40.

SPEAKER_01 35:49

It's the freaking icy hot.

SPEAKER_00 35:51

There's only one way to tell.

SPEAKER_01 35:53

Oh shit. I would do I would totally do it. I mean, well, let's see. Apparently, your see-through with yellow five. What happens with red 40? There's only one way to tell. Only one way.

SPEAKER_02 36:03

You know, I've had I had some people in my comments recently saying that uh how dare they do animal testing for these studies. So I think they would like to volunteer.

Cones, Diffuse Light, And Design

SPEAKER_01 36:12

I'm sure some humans would do it. I'm sure like we got people eating like cowbrains and shit. Like, I'm sure we could get some people to sign up to to jump in a bucket of red 40.

SPEAKER_00 36:22

You got that guy that ate raw chicken until he got sick. Oh, did he stop? Did that happen? He finally stopped at one point, and like there was no mention of anything. But it's kind of obvious he probably finally got sick. Maybe.

SPEAKER_02 36:37

I mean, I I did like uh actually a video on Hamo too where I had a theory that when it theoretically there's a range of acidities that you can have for your stomach within like the normal human spectrum. And the reason why are more able to eat just carrion without a problem, one of the big ones has to do with the lowered acidity in their stomach environment, killing off more bacteria than humans. So I would posit that there are certain people that have a greater ability to survive eating raw meat than others. And it's also if you're eating it straight, like very, very fresh, you're gonna get far lower bacterial exposure than if you're eating it, you know, like from Costco defrosted on your counter overnight. Right. Right. So if it's very fresh and he happens to be somewhere who can handle it.

SPEAKER_01 37:28

What you're what I'm hearing is if I take another acid to lower the pH of my stomach, I take a little battery acid or whatever I have lying around, that will decrease my risk of getting sick from said raw meat.

SPEAKER_02 37:41

It's possible. I would recommend sulfuric acid if you have it.

SPEAKER_01 37:45

Okay, so I like it. Okay, so like what if I was trying to get down to vulture level? Because I know vultures have like a pH of like 0.5 or some shit.

SPEAKER_02 37:52

Like something between one and two, but it's it's pretty crazy, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:56

I remember it's really low, like it's super low. Like, well, if I'm if I want vulture bile, if I want vulture stomach acid, how much sulfuric acid will I need to reach said level?

SPEAKER_02 38:07

That is a good question. Uh I think black volume.

SPEAKER_00 38:10

Asking the real questions here.

SPEAKER_02 38:11

I guess though they're between three and four. That's interesting.

SPEAKER_01 38:14

Are they three and four? I thought vultures really I thought the uh they were like super duper acidic, and that's why they eat raw meat.

SPEAKER_02 38:22

There's a whole bunch. There's also, it's not just the acidity, there also has to do with their immune systems being slightly different and more primed. Like there's a lot of different stages, even when it comes to like dogs actually have antibacterial saliva.

SPEAKER_01 38:36

Okay. But why get sick one bit by dog?

SPEAKER_00 38:39

So we need to transplant a dog's tongue on Liam, uh, have him consume some sulfuric acid and inject him with vulture antibodies.

SPEAKER_02 38:50

This sounds like while bathing. Can we do one at a time?

SPEAKER_01 38:54

I feel like we're really jumping into the red 40 pool when we should really be dipping our toes in at first. I I I so yeah, I will so raw meat, bad. Don't probably still just don't eat that. Just cook it faster. Or not faster, better, less sick. Yeah, and then less worstest. Less worstest. And then so then other all colors have benefit, except it seems like white. White seems like it does nothing.

SPEAKER_02 39:18

I mean, blue light is but white is the combination of everything.

SPEAKER_01 39:22

Oh, okay. So that's the problem. There's too many colors.

SPEAKER_02 39:24

Too many colors you get confused.

SPEAKER_01 39:26

So you need to start with, so you can start with one. So we got green light, we got red light, white, that's stupid. Get it out of here. We should just get rid of that. Who needs it anyway?

SPEAKER_00 39:34

What the f what are you doing back here?

SPEAKER_01 39:36

Get out of here.

SPEAKER_00 39:37

Go away. Suddenly, Mike.

SPEAKER_02 39:41

Alright, guys, so I'm a Visa.

SPEAKER_01 39:44

Let me introduce myself. What the hell? Uh so okay, what about store? So if we get stores, like Target, they're red. So why don't instead of white light, they just have red throughout their store. We do that, and then they get red light therapy as you're go as you're shopping.

SPEAKER_02 39:58

I could see that being a thing in certain types of stores. Target, it might be a bit difficult. You know, everyone's like going, hey, I bought this green sweater. Wait a minute.

SPEAKER_01 40:05

Oh, yeah. I guess I didn't think about the color situation of buying stuff.

SPEAKER_02 40:09

It would be more like I bought this gray sweater. So I'm in the middle of designing a line of merch, and one of the things that I'm working on that I'm still doing a lot of testing is I want a design that looks different under different colors of light.

SPEAKER_04 40:22

Oh, that's cool.

SPEAKER_02 40:22

I think it would be very fun to like have my shirt look like say one thing. Like, so I have a design where it's like, don't talk to me, I'm in pain, but that's in pain in white light or red light. But then when you put it on green light, it says I'm healing. Oh, I like that. That's good.

SPEAKER_01 40:40

How's it coming? How's it coming along so far? Is it kind of working? Not working.

SPEAKER_02 40:45

I can show you guys like the uh the concept. If you pull it up here, that'd be fun.

SPEAKER_01 40:50

Because it's like those ones I've seen.

SPEAKER_00 40:52

We'll just describe it for the visually impaired that are less stinking.

SPEAKER_03 40:56

Or you go over to YouTube where the videos are posted and you can see it.

unknown 41:01

Let's see.

SPEAKER_01 41:03

It's like at the gym, like they have those ones where that when they get wet, they have like it says something different. It's the same thing, just with the light.

SPEAKER_03 41:09

What if you just make it super like when my shirt gets wet? It's suddenly a shirt that doesn't have nipples on it has nipples on it.

SPEAKER_01 41:18

Is that just you or is that happening?

SPEAKER_02 41:20

No, it's it's the shirt, it's very carefully designed. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:23

It's not me, it's not like my nipples. It's also a belly brand.

Merch Concepts And STEM Store

SPEAKER_02 41:27

It's one of those newfangled like positivity brands where you have like built-in nipples. Built in nipples. Everyone has nipples. That's that's the thing. No, my aerials aren't that big. Where is the share?

SPEAKER_01 41:40

Yeah, I want okay. Because like I like that at the gym. You get like you're like, oh, uh, because the thing is, like, at the gym, I don't even like sweat that much, but I see these like cool shirts that like sweat, and then it's just like comes on, like it has like a little like slogan or some shit once it gets wet, and like I don't fucking sweat enough for that. So I want something with a light that I can just flip a switch and then boom.

SPEAKER_00 41:57

What if I just make a gym lights and be like, hey, uh let's change it up in here, let's get some red light going.

SPEAKER_01 42:03

I uh there's a gym that opened up near me, and that has it has a whole posing room, just a room for fucking posing. I'm like, damn, that's like a full-on influencer gym right there. That's insane.

SPEAKER_02 42:14

Then again, I have many times thought, hey, it would be fun to film some content here, but I go to New York sports clubs, so that's not really doable.

SPEAKER_01 42:23

Let me just take my shirt off and start flexing. This has a room dedicated just for that.

SPEAKER_00 42:28

So Leon flexing videos when?

SPEAKER_01 42:30

I just go to the Y. They got child watch for Oakley, so I probably not anytime soon. Drop her off. Let me go work out. Take this child. She'll be fine.

unknown 42:42

Right.

SPEAKER_02 42:42

So I can't share my screen because of permissions issues, and I'll have to restart Riverside. But what I can do is probably drop a basic thing into the chat, which presumably is a thing.

SPEAKER_01 42:54

It is a thing. Even if it's what else is a thing? You know what else is a thing? The DeLorean.

SPEAKER_03 42:59

It is a thing. Do you want to contribute to our DeLorean fund?

SPEAKER_01 43:03

DeLorean fund, yes. To the 200 DeLorean.

SPEAKER_03 43:07

We're fundraising, not for the classic DeLorean, but for the new one.

SPEAKER_01 43:11

The new one, yeah. Man. I was just telling them, like, because of New York now, I probably need a new car because New York has laws on salvage vehicles. My car is salvage.

SPEAKER_00 43:23

New York is the worst.

SPEAKER_01 43:25

It's really annoying. I might have to trade it in just for parts. I like my car.

SPEAKER_03 43:30

When you say salvage, I imagine like a Mad Max kind of situation.

SPEAKER_01 43:34

So that's what it was, and then it got uh tuned down to just a 2012 Nissan Sentra. A mild basic shape.

SPEAKER_03 43:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 43:41

Extra mild.

SPEAKER_03 43:42

Extra mild. Is that the one with the the the side mirror isn't there?

SPEAKER_01 43:47

Is that extra mild not having a side mirror?

SPEAKER_03 43:49

I guess.

SPEAKER_00 43:50

I don't know. What do you got? A flamethrower on there? I feel like extra mild would be more safety features.

SPEAKER_01 43:56

I feel that's what I was thinking. I'm thinking extra mild is like it's got like it's got like 10 airbags and your seatbelt has seat belts. Yeah, exactly. Every 50 miles an hour. You know, it's that's the extra mild.

SPEAKER_03 44:10

Put a roll cage on a Prius?

SPEAKER_01 44:12

Yeah, exactly. That's the extra mild.

SPEAKER_03 44:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:14

So yeah, I might be needing a new car, so why not uh quarter million dollar DeLorean? Besides price. Why not?

SPEAKER_02 44:21

Yeah, there is no reason not to. And the thing is, oh yeah, go ahead. I couldn't share the screen and I couldn't drop an image in the chat. So I dropped a link to the image in the chat.

SPEAKER_01 44:31

A link to the image. I I want I still want to see it. Let me see this.

SPEAKER_03 44:35

Oh, I like that. I'd we I are you when are you selling these? I want one.

SPEAKER_02 44:40

Uh coming to stores this Black Friday, hopefully. Really? That's soon. That's a couple of weeks from now. I'm trying to push to hit the to hit the rush.

SPEAKER_03 44:50

But interesting. Well, this will be out tomorrow as at the time of this recording. So uh to those of you who are hearing this on 1113 25.

SPEAKER_01 45:00

There you go.

SPEAKER_03 45:01

Ah, you can share. Cool. Look at that. Yeah, go over to YouTube so you can look at the uh the or or where could they see this otherwise?

OnlyFacts QR And Science Fun

SPEAKER_02 45:09

On on your website or so right now it's not out anywhere yet because I'm still finalizing like design bits. I'm debating making it a bit more complicated, but if they sign up for my newsletter, I'll be sending out all the details uh soon. I mean, probably posting something about it, but the newsletter will have all the links. So that's at like distilled science.xyz.

SPEAKER_00 45:28

What's the blue one say?

SPEAKER_01 45:29

Healing, right?

SPEAKER_02 45:31

So the green the green is healing, the blue technically says chilling. Uh the red is in pain. I am still trying to dial it in so that like, you know, in an ideal world, you wouldn't be able to read the healing at all in normal light, but that's very hard to swing.

SPEAKER_01 45:50

Interesting.

SPEAKER_02 45:52

But as of right now, when you look at it in the like, if you were to look at this in green light, you would only see it say healing. Whereas right now.

SPEAKER_01 46:00

Yeah, I get a shirt that changes depending on how much ice cream I eat. Just like I'm I'm I am full, I am happy, I am satiated, I've eaten and I've eaten a whole tub of bed and jerry's.

SPEAKER_02 46:12

You know, you want it to be like a muscle shirt that's like as your stomach expands a little bit, it somehow changes how it looks.

SPEAKER_01 46:19

How about it, yeah, it changes from a muscle shirt into like an extra, extra large, comfy sweater. That's what I want.

SPEAKER_02 46:25

Exactly. Oh, speaking of t-shirt designs, can you guys tell what this design is? Uh Rorschach test. That's what I'm calling with.

SPEAKER_00 46:34

I'm gonna go with ice cream. It's looking like a lava lamp to me.

SPEAKER_02 46:38

Try to turn your head upside down.

SPEAKER_00 46:40

I oh, it's Einstein! Well, now people really have to go to uh oh that's crazy just to see us all turn our heads.

SPEAKER_02 46:49

Here, I'll turn one way. You can turn the other way.

SPEAKER_03 46:51

You just wanted to see us bend over.

SPEAKER_01 46:53

Yeah, it's Einstein. It's a petri dish?

SPEAKER_02 46:56

No, Mike got it. Huh. It is Albert Einstein made out of a hundred circles. Oh.

SPEAKER_03 47:02

Where do you find this? I made it. You made it. Are you selling these?

SPEAKER_02 47:07

This is coming to stores this Black Friday.

SPEAKER_00 47:11

Everything's coming Black Friday. All store all shirts coming to stores this Black Friday.

Wrap Up And DeLorean Fund

SPEAKER_02 47:15

Basically, I was thinking to myself, like, use code Mike needs a plan. I wanted to come up with some sort of line of merch, but I I hate when merch is just my name or something very, very simple. So I wanted it to be something that I myself would enjoy wearing because there's something like nerdy about it inherently. So I love optical illusions. I love like when I can sort of do a mathy science-y thing on the shirt itself. I think this one I went a little bit too far because almost no one can tell what it is just by looking at it, even when they're like properly oriented. So maybe I'll do like a beginner's level one where it's face right side up and then like an expert one where it's upside down. But I don't know. I love the concept of it being like you're up close and it's just totally nothing. But like from far enough away at the right angle, it's like a stereogram on a shirt. I've thought about doing that. So actually, I've created some cool stereogram that yeah, I used to love those as a kid. But the problem with stereogram is.

SPEAKER_00 48:09

How about two shirts that like each one is part of the stereogram?

SPEAKER_02 48:12

And then it's like when people stand close enough together the right way.

SPEAKER_00 48:16

Yeah. Buddy shirt.

SPEAKER_02 48:18

Talk about a couple's purchase.

SPEAKER_03 48:19

Just this is an absolutely incredible hobby that you have. I I'm in great admiration because I unfortunately got the type of autism that makes my teeth hurt at Walmart.

SPEAKER_01 48:30

Oh, damn.

SPEAKER_03 48:31

So I this is I I love, I want to three of these. Yeah, it's uh I I can't do anything. It's it's bad. So it's it, I everything I've heard so far about these shirts, I love it. Is it under a brand name? Is it under your name? I want people to know how to find these.

SPEAKER_02 48:53

I mean, it's going to be under my distilled science brand, but also it'll be I I've created a store called Stem Cells.

SPEAKER_01 48:59

I like it. I like it. I'm with it. I'm with it.

SPEAKER_02 49:03

So I I have the domain, it's launching soon. I'm building out the store.

SPEAKER_01 49:07

Crazy that no one had.

SPEAKER_03 49:09

That's great. Yeah.

unknown 49:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 49:10

This is awesome.

SPEAKER_02 49:12

Like, I've been curating for years a list of all sorts of like really fascinating, nerdy products. Like I do an annual like gift guide for nerds. I figured why not sort of just bring everything together and introduce a few of my own products because I'm nerdy like that. That's true. I should add that to my website for a mere$400,000.

SPEAKER_03 49:38

He's got to cover the lawsuit money too. He gets sued by the DeLorean Motor Company.

SPEAKER_02 49:43

No, no, no, it's fine. It's just gonna be like uh an affiliate link to them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:47

Oh, okay. I thought, well, didn't he go bankrupt from selling drugs? It's fine. It'll be okay.

SPEAKER_03 49:53

Well, he's not here anymore. Oh John Dean died in 2000.

SPEAKER_01 49:57

Oh, so then it's fine.

SPEAKER_03 49:58

Also, that sounds like a fake name. Like, oh, who started the DeLorean Motor Company? John Dean? It's really his name.

SPEAKER_01 50:05

I worked at a restaurant where the owner's name was John DeJohn. And I'm not joking, that was actually his name.

SPEAKER_02 50:11

Did he really like mustard?

SPEAKER_03 50:13

I I don't or he probably hated it actually.

SPEAKER_01 50:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:19

He got so sick of hearing about it that he's like, he can't do it anymore. I can't hear this again.

SPEAKER_01 50:24

Well, we're uh I think we're where we're uh besides uh stem cells. Where else can people find you?

SPEAKER_02 50:30

Besides stem cells, well, it's distilled science on all the platforms. TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, it's distilled science.xyz.

SPEAKER_01 50:40

Uh theoretically, all your science needs.

SPEAKER_00 50:44

And your Black Friday shop, your paradigm got lots of options.

SPEAKER_02 50:47

Hopefully it counters. Actually, you know what, as as long we're on this as we're on this topic, I might as well show off the other design.

SPEAKER_03 50:55

Please. Again, you can see all of this on YouTube. You go to YouTube, the in moderation YouTube, and you can see this.

SPEAKER_00 51:02

Or you can go to people over on Spotify are like, screw you, Mike. I'm staying on Spotify.

SPEAKER_01 51:07

So this bar, so it's a little like only facts. QR code? Only facts. Spread it out a little more. Spread out your only facts a little bit more.

SPEAKER_03 51:16

Spread it open. I just I I I broke one of my rules. I never scan QR codes.

SPEAKER_01 51:22

Never I scan everyone I see because you never know what gold you're gonna find.

SPEAKER_03 51:26

I've just accessed Evacio's OnlyFacts, and uh it says the average human body contains enough carbon to make around 900 pencils.

SPEAKER_01 51:36

How many DeLoreans can it make?

SPEAKER_03 51:38

How many DeLoreans can it make? So if I refresh, do I get a new one?

SPEAKER_02 51:42

You will. Right now, what you're looking at is a dummy page that is not fully functional yet. I'm in the process of still fully building it. The goal is to have it where it's like a new fact of the day that users can also submit facts to that will then get fact checked before uh going up. But as I said, I don't like random designs, I like nerdy functional ones, so this would be a new science fact whenever you scan.

SPEAKER_03 52:04

It's very simple. It's it's straightforward. It says exactly what it is here. You just see the fact, and and that's that's that. It's a set it's like a snapple fact.

SPEAKER_00 52:12

And only a fact.

SPEAKER_01 52:13

I miss the Snapple facts. I like I like the Snapple facts.

SPEAKER_02 52:16

Oh yeah, those were fun and sometimes accurate.

SPEAKER_01 52:20

Who cares about accuracy, especially not these days, doesn't matter anymore.

SPEAKER_02 52:23

It's like, you know, the crazy hot scale, it's sort of like that with facts, also. Like if you want to believe it enough, then you'll just not want a fact jacket. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 52:33

This is it's this is very V sauce what you're doing here. This is a V Sauce, is what it is. A V sauce.

SPEAKER_00 52:39

Not to be confused with V Shred, because we hate that guy. No, we hate that guy.

SPEAKER_03 52:42

Fuck that guy. The worst.

unknown 52:44

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 52:44

Oh, you guys are gonna have to do that.

SPEAKER_01 52:45

Someone who I do enjoy, uh, my daughter, I have to go get because she is stranded at daycare and she can't drive yet. She's almost there. Another early. 15 years, yeah, she'll be she'll be there, but not quite. So I need to go get that one. So I'm gonna say goodnight to everyone. I'm gonna be searching DeLoreans as I get off here. Sounds good. Fun chatting with you, Liam. See you later. See you later.

SPEAKER_00 53:10

Coming soon, only DeLoreans. Very niche market. Well, Mike's in the market, so I've well I'm in the market.

SPEAKER_03 53:16

Me and Liam are gonna co own that DeLorean. We've been plotting on this for a while.

SPEAKER_02 53:21

Have you worked out how you're gonna do your custody split?

SPEAKER_03 53:24

I don't know. Honestly, I I I'm probably gonna be a deadbeat DeLorean owner. I'm gonna be quite honest. I'm gonna be super about it. Yeah, once we have it, I'm just gonna dip, leave town.