Reflections of an Original Freedom Rider with Mr. Charles Person

When the echoes of spirituals intertwined with cries for justice, a movement was born. Our latest episode of Spiritual Gumbo invites the venerable Mr. Charles Person to share his heart-stirring experiences as an original Freedom Rider. The conversation swells with tales of spiritual leadership amid social justice battles, where hymns and prayers weren't just a source of comfort—they were a shield against the flames of hatred. Mr. Person offers a poignant look into the soul of a movement where institutional caution danced with the drive for equity.

The narrative threads of the past weave through our discussion on the integration of the military and the academic crucible faced by African Americans. We draw upon Mr. Person's personal accounts of discrimination within the armed forces, juxtaposed with the nurturing embrace of Morehouse College, where a community of ambition and excellence took root under the guidance of mentors like Dr. Benjamin Mays. Unpacking the complexities of merit and the systemic barriers of the time, this episode shines a light on the quiet strength and indomitable spirit that propelled a generation toward greatness against the odds.

Finally, we raise our voices in a chorus of black excellence, celebrating the rich legacy of HBCUs like Morehouse College. The personal triumphs and cultural milestones shared by Mr. Person remind us of the profound impact these institutions have had on shaping leaders and innovators. From the sacred sounds that resonated through the halls of activism to the vibrant thrum of hope that pulses in today's quests for social change, join us for an exploration of the spiritual and intellectual symphony that continues to inspire and challenge us to reach for a more just and equitable world.

You can find Mr. Person's book, The Buses Are a Comin',
 at this link https://a.co/d/iqVzmmb

Transcript

Rev Lynne: 0:22

Welcome. I'm Lynn Eaton Washington, priest in charge at the Episcopal Church of the Incarnation in Southwest Atlanta, and I'd like to welcome you to Spiritual Gumbeaux, a podcast for spiritual leadership, a podcast that chooses to lead not through Western leadership theories, but through a level of spiritual leadership or spiritual consciousness in this day and time when so many of us are not conscious. Today's guest is Mr. Charles Person, one of the original 12 freedom writers from the Atlanta student movement of the 1960s, also one of our special guests in this Black History Month. Mr. Person, thank you and welcome.

Charles Person: 1:07

Thank you.

Rev Lynne: 1:09

Let's get right to it. In your book you share the story of then President of Morehouse stating your parents didn't send you to college to start a revolution. I see the lad that chuckle in your face and the juxtaposition in that is the president of ITC, who the interdenominational theological consortium agrees with the students. And that kind of leads me into this notion of spiritual leadership. When you have one president saying in a green and the other one not a green, I'm going to assume that they both had strong feelings about the civil rights movement. But what stands out for me is the fact that the president of the college was more concerned about the institution and the president of the theological consortium seems to be more concerned about justice. What are your thoughts on this spiritual leadership?

Charles Person: 2:25

Well, it was a little bit different, because the president of Morehouse and the other schools were concerned because their boards contain many whites and they wanted to walk a tightrope between pleasing the boards and pleasing the students, because they encouraged us off to do what we were doing but they gave the impression that they wanted us to limit our activities.

Rev Lynne: 3:05

So let me ask you this what do you? Where were you in terms of your own spiritual walk? I'm not necessarily talking about a religious walk, but spiritually, what can you recall what that meant to you in this time of the 60s? What your thoughts were?

Charles Person: 3:22

Well spiritually. I think it was very important because as students, we prayed a lot, we sang a lot of hymns and we sang a lot of freedom songs and it gave us strength. You know, it was nothing elaborate, it was a simple prayer asking for God's protection and for us and our friends.

Rev Lynne: 3:51

What was during this movement? What was the time that you felt like you had the most call on your spiritual outfit? When was that moment?

Charles Person: 4:00

Well, I think, whenever a crowd gathered, sometimes there were crowds that had robes on which signified that they were members of the Klan, but in the time there was a group and people were yelling and screaming and telling us what we were entitled to. You know, as the crowds got larger, yeah, it was frightening but, like I say, one of the things we prayed is don't let me be afraid, lord. And it was difficult because there were times we should have been afraid. I mean, really, if you think back now, I think God was looking out for us, because, I mean, the logical mind tells you, hey, it's time to go, but //Rev Lynne//can you share one of those moments where were you?

Charles Person: 4:54

We were at Amphisa Street, then brought and we had in there all day picketing and sitting in and the Klan came in and they wanted to pretend to be reporters and get people's names and addresses and I think you know we had given them that information. Some of those homes would have been visited, you know, with burning crosses or the other means of terror. But we realized up front what they were trying to do and we didn't give them any information, you know. But also they would fire your parents. You know it was easy for them to find out information on you and you know, if your dad worked at one of the major corporations in Atlanta he could find himself laid off or fired.

Rev Lynne: 5:49

So literally, you all, as young people, were putting everything on the line your families, yourselve s, your future for this purpose called justice and equality. You know, one of the things that's always talked about is that no real revolution is started by anyone over the age of 30s and that is evidence with the life of Christ.

Rev Lynne: 6:13

He only lived to be 33 years, so we assume. Oftentimes we see now with movements like Black Lives Matter, how young people are still coming forward At this stage in age of your life, how do you see your witness continuing for justice and freedom.

Charles Person: 6:36

My job is to encourage young people of their own ability, that they have the ability to change the world. They have the enthusiasm and they're impatient. Older people we tend to rationalize things and we say, oh, buy and buy, and you know we'll just give people the benefit of the doubt. Young people, they want freedom, they want it now and that's the good thing about it and I encourage them at all levels as well.

Charles Person: 7:05

Whether it's the food in the cafeteri a or there's something on campus that upsets you that you should organize and do. Correct it, I said. But the main thing is to do it peacefully and non-violently. You know you don't burn people's houses or their cars down to solve your problem. Dr King has proven that non-violence work. James Farmer and many others in Gandhi has proven that non-violence works. And it works because you develop allies and to be successful in any social movement you have to have allies and it's amazing how you can bring so many diverse groups together if you understand your cause and you articulate your cause. And that's another thing. You have to define who you are and define what you're fighting for.

Rev Lynne: 8:04

Currently well. In your book you talk about which is a very powerful story about moving your father, moving his brother out of their residence because they were sharecroppers and what that system was doing to the family. Do you remember at that time what some of your own personal thoughts about and a reason I ask that question is because so many people, especially here in Atlanta, are finding it hard to make ends meet, rent, jobs and still education Most of those things that we fought for are still not as accessible as we thought they should be. Yeah, can you share a little bit about your story and maybe even how it connects to modern day sharecropping?

Charles Person: 9:00

Well, we used to love to go visit our relatives in the country and they were all sharecroppers, you know, I think, back the land that they were responsible for. You'd go out to the road and you could look up and down the road and as far as you can see was his responsibility. And this particular year was what the old folks used to call. It was a bountiful year. I mean, you know they the crops, it says exceeded anyone's expectation. So they knew that they were out of, should have gotten out of debt. But when they tallied up at the end of the year, the owner says to my grandfather he says, john, you almost got out of debt this year and they realized that it was no, if this didn't get them out of debt, nothing will. So what did the men I plan to, how, what they were going to do? They packed everything up in one night. All the men went down to you know, and they left. They took everything they could and they never went back to farming. They moved, lived with us some live with us and some live with other relatives until they could get their own place, and normally it took about a month at the most before they found some work and work and a place to live in.

Charles Person: 10:25

But I tell you it was great because even though that wasn't a lot of money, we lived well because it was always plenty of food, like. So then the summer there would be purple whole peas and corn and okra and stuff that they would share with the neighbors and of course they would can a lot of stuff they. You know it was not uncommon in our house. If my grandmother wanted to make a pie, she just go and she get a jar of peaches that they had canned the previous summer and you know, and just knock it out just like that. And so, like I said, it was always and they had.

Charles Person: 11:08

She normally raised at least a couple of pigs and we had a country ham and bacon and sausage and when you could tell when it was slaughter time because the smell of freshly pork sausage and the way it was seasoned, it was just so enticing. That and coffee was just like it was heaven, you know. You know when you pour, you know you can appreciate the little things in life and I think even as kids, you know we were half, we were half full, as much as we could be, but it was a joy because during those time, everybody on Bradley Street benefited. See, there was no welfare then, not as we know it today. And so if you didn't have friends and relatives, you know you, you you're out of luck, so you talk about the beginning of your book, about your journey and your.

Rev Lynne: 12:10

your quest for freedom started at a young age, I think you said around 14, 12, around 12 years old. Could you share with our listeners what that looked like for you?

Charles Person: 12:24

Well, the buses. We had trolleys back in those days and what happened is that the mechanism for the trolley was in the back of the bus where we were required to sit. One day I had gone to downtown Atlanta and my head was hurting. I just couldn't stand it. So I refused to sit in the back. I didn't go all the way front, but I was sitting near the middle door, the door in the back, and a lot of the black patients were. They were afraid that something was going to happen to me. You know, and I just explained to them.

Charles Person: 13:01

Maybe I said now my head hurts, I can't sit back there. And I I I stared at these over, they didn't do anything. And that was my first encounter, you know, in Atlanta with prejudice. And around the same time I got a job at the bowling alley. My uncle, randy he was the maintenance man for the bowling alley and we were fortunate because the owner was from New England so he was very lenient towards us and he was able to get us freedoms that other kids who worked in the neighborhood could not get.

Charles Person: 13:41

But there's a restaurant in Atlanta it's still in existence, it's called the Majestic and he had worked it out with the Majestic that we could get our food and stuff and it's on the corner of Briarcliff, if I think, and Ponce de Leon. And you know we could order but we couldn't sit down there. But they otherwise, they treat us respectfully and they prepared a very good food and he got it to us in our town in Atlanta, because we didn't have a lot of time for lunch and you know. But all that was all growing up because, you know, when the older guys went we went to the restaurant. I wanted to, like everybody else, sit down. They said no, Charles, you can't. You know you can't sit here and you know how do you explain to a 12-year-old that you can't sit here because of your color, your skin, it. You know it doesn't make sense then and it doesn't make sense now, but you know that was my first realization that there were restrictions on things that I, as a child of a black people, you know was limited.

Rev Lynne: 14:55

One of the things I've always heard is that the military is that space where everybody is equal. At one point, when you join up, sign up Navy Army Air Force Marines, everybody's equal, would you say. That is true?

Charles Person: 15:10

No well, I came in right after. You know, the armed forces hadn't been integrated very long when I joined, so there were vestiges of hatred. You had DIs who didn't want to cooperate. I had one. He would go through the barracks and shine like a nigga nigga and he would dare you to say anything. But you know the thing is, if he had known my background he'd realize that he's barking up the wrong tree. You know, he just had no idea and I would really like to get with him. Today he's still alive.

Charles Person: 15:51

I would like to sit down and say what were you thinking then? Because he was trying to force me out. I mean, I had good scores and I was an A student in school, so his military test was nothing. But you know, so I was supposed to get promoted when you have do those certain things. And he did everything to make sure I didn't get promoted. And then, when I got to the electronic school, they wouldn't allow me to take good officer training because at the time most of the schools that they represented were not integrated and the Marine Corps did not want to get under. You know, a contest with local governments as to why Charles Person or any other black student because there were a lot of brilliant black kids who they tried to but they couldn't get into these schools and it took me 10 years to get a commission and it shouldn't have taken me a year. But you know, I understand now, even I understand now better, because when I asked them they tried to prevent Chen.

Charles Person: 17:09

It was something else. They asked me well, I said why didn't I get selected? They said those other guys had very impressive grades. Then I found out I had the highest GPA. I mean I went up before the board. So you see, back then my graduating GPA was 3.82 and there was no AP courses and stuff Like now you can have a 5.0. Because you can have those kind of mechanisms then to accelerate your GPA. So, but you know, I learned, I mean it became more understanding, but you know it's. But then again it might have been good because that may not have been a second lieutenant. When Vietnam started in, the life expectancy of a second lieutenant wasn't very long.

Rev Lynne: 18:00

Wow, wow. You write in your book I wanted to be a man of Morehouse. Commuting to school made me feel like a man at Morehouse. Yo u want to say a little bit more about that.

Charles Person: 18:15

Well, you know, Dr. Mays was a heck of a man, a beautiful speaker, articulate. I mean you just couldn't help but admire him and he was so encouraging and during those days we had compulsory chapel every day. For me it was difficult because some mornings I had to walk from the east side of town to get to school in time for chapel because I didn't have the money and but I had strong legs.

Charles Person: 18:48

You develop strong legs when you have to walk a lot. But you know they made you feel, you know it brought you into the nest and you could feel the comradeship. You know it's going to be saying the, you know the alma mater or any time we got together. It was just so amazing because at that time, you know, we had, we had some of the best professors in the country in science and mathematics. You know it was just a, it was just a pleasure to be around that kind of people, black people especially, because you know you're, as a child, only people you see as your teachers and you don't get to see them very much. I mean socialize, whereas in college you have socials and stuff and they're there and their wives and stuff and you get to realize that boy life can be pretty darn good, you know.

Rev Lynne: 19:48

You mentioned Dr. Mays and, as you know, Dr. Mays is one of the greatest spiritual leaders that we've ever had in this country. How did he encourage your own spirituality and how did he encourage the movement as you saw it?

Charles Person: 20:07

Individually or personally, he was, he was, he was really a drum major for justice. I mean, he was encouraging, he was never condescending. You know, he I don't know if you can understand this that was an era where, you know, young people should be seen and not heard, but here you had an opportunity to talk with someone who could, who could inspire you to do your very best, and that was just like you know it was. It was rough to get there to start chapel. You might. Your next class might have been maybe two hours late. So what do you do for the two hours? You go to the library and you study.

Charles Person: 20:49

But they made it was an environment, I think, more than anything there was an environment not only on Morehouse campus but the whole AU center, and that that energy just just is. All of us newbies, you know, freshmen, we were happy just to be there and to be around some of the superlatives. You got to realize, even though I was a salutatorian of my class, there were a lot of other salutatorians and valedictorians in our various class. So you had a all these superlatives together. So the competition was tremendous, but which was great because you needed that. You know, I met some wonderful people and we had a couple of African students and they they did exceptionally well and and it was you know they encouraged you to do better, to do your best, you know, you know, I don't know if that exists today, but I, I think that if, if, if young people had that kind of experience, a lot more of them would be successful and a lot of them would stay, out of trouble.

Rev Lynne: 22:00

It's funny you said that, because there's a lot of conversation now about what is considered black excellence and how black, black excellence has really is really being dismissed from the public sector and how we're not talking about some of some of the amazing things that black people have created and were behind and it's just kind of glossed over like oh, it just happened and or this notion that race did not matter.

Rev Lynne: 22:30

I know from having a daughter that is a graduate of Spelman and a son that started at Morehouse and during the pandemic he was told they weren't going to be able to offer the classes he needed for graduation. So he transferred to Georgia State and the other one went to predominantly white, he went to SCAD, that institution. But one of the things I have found is that those my kids who have started at a black school or been a part of a a historically black college and university, have a different way of being than the one who didn't go to an HBCU. A historic HBCU and that's what I think that I'm hearing you say, and I've heard this from many people is the level of encouragement that is received by staff and professors and your, your schoolmates, and so there is this different energy around black excellence. That's. That's what I think I hear you saying. Am I close?

Charles Person: 23:38

Yeah, you're close and it is so true because I have the same situation. My son graduated from University of Georgia and my daughter graduated from Albany State, and the reason the difference is my daughter was also accepted at the University of Georgia, but she was in the band, and if you've seen an HBCU band march, and your normal traditional band in your flagship schools, there is no comparison.

Rev Lynne: 24:15

Yes.

Charles Person: 24:18

So that's what happened, but the thing is she graduated. She was a major in chemistry and that year that she graduated, all the degrees in chemistry was to women from Albany State.

Rev Lynne: 24:33

Really that's kind of interesting. She said that because we have a member at Incarnation who was in the sciences at Albany State and she's a female I think she was a chemistry major so and she teaches science in public education. So that's a point of connection and I bet she doesn't even know about it from you. Who would you say was your greatest influence spiritual influence during the movement of our civil rights leaders?

Charles Person: 25:10

Well, if you.

Rev Lynne: 25:12

Or you could just say, your greatest influence.

Charles Person: 25:14

Well, my greatest influence was my grandmother. There's nothing like a praying grandmother and I think she knew all the old songs and she knew I love spirituals and I mean you know you come around the house and you knew what the spirit was, because which songs did she sang? You know there were times there were very uplifting and then there was those sacred songs that are solemn and not mournful but makes you think. But other than that, I think we had a pastor and he was a very young man and he was very adventuresome, Reverend Dudley. He was a Baptist preacher and you know I loved him and I was in a choir there. I was in children's choir and we had some very notable people in this choir. But he left us, our church, for greater things and you know it hurt us because we were a small church. When he wanted to go to Jerusalem, we sent him to Jerusalem. Wherever he wanted to go. The church found a way to get him there and I think when he left I couldn't understand as a child. But you go where the opportunities are. I'm just saying he, you know, but he was a very good spiritual leader and if you ever go by Liberty Baptist Church on Jackson Street. It's right up from Ebenezer.

Charles Person: 27:07

One of the choir members that I grew up with was not only my cousin but Charlotte Gibson and she won all kinds of awards. She was on the dead back amateur hour and she had a wonderful. She produced one album for a Presbyterian church on Peachtree Street and it is one beautiful recording and I want to try to get it because I think there's someone in the family that has a copy and I like to get it because she sang with the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra and everything. These are the kind of kids that was in the choir and we kept us on the straight and narrow Because we sang together and of course, in church and those days you sat quietly because if your mom was in the choir looking down on you, you know that you had to be on your P's and Q's.

Rev Lynne: 28:07

So why could possibly say that music has been a core piece in your sense of spirituality? Can you say a little bit more about your spiritual leadership beyond and during the movement? And now, what is your spiritual relationship.

Charles Person: 28:31

I don't know if you know Reverend Moss, //Rev Lynne//Otis Moss, yeah, I'm from Ohio. Okay, go ahead. Otis was one of the spiritual leaders in the movement. He prayed there and he would, you know, a lot of times, you know, we didn't do anything without prayer, we didn't just get up and do something. I mean there was always consideration, prayer and song, I think more than anything, and it bonded us together and even to this day, I mean whenever we get together. I mean Otis was in town last week and his son had done a marvellous job, so, and there were other preachers too. Alex is. His church is on the street that runs right into between Morehouse and Clark. You know where the library is, the main library, not the old Trevon, the new library. There's a church, I don't know the name of that church.

Rev Lynne: 29:51

I was thinking.

Charles Person: 29:52

Flipper, when you first started. The street is named after the pastor. At Simpson Road was changed to the name after the pastor.

Rev Lynne: 30:08

We'll come back to it, we'll figure it out.

Charles Person: 30:14

His daughter is a council person. Go ahead, I know the family quite well, that's the library Brawley. Brawley, yeah, Brawley.

Rev Lynne: 30:30

James Brawley.

Charles Person: 30:35

But I realized there was a lot of good things that was going on. You know, Paschal's restaurant in a little carousel, if you like jazz music, that was always an inspiration for us. And you know Paschal's used to provide a lot of meals for us when we were on the picket line and you had. What's the other restaurant that just received the James Beard Award?

Rev Lynne: 31:02

Busybee.

Charles Person: 31:02

Busybee. You know and we also. There was a barbecue place that's no longer there days where they were on the corner of MLK and Brawley, James P. Brawley.

Rev Lynne: 31:15

So what are some of the incidents that maybe are not talked about? You know, the sit-ins, the Edmund Pettus Bridge. What are some of the other things that maybe aren't talked about but were as significant in the movement?

Charles Person: 31:32

One of the things I've always said and it came up yesterday well, not yesterday, but this week when the governor decided to send men down to the Southern border. And I said most Episcopalians have always been on the right side of the law, they've always found a way to do the right thing. And I said somebody need to wake him up. But then I got to thinking. I says, you know, maybe our governor because the Bishop of Atlanta is black, the Presiding Bishop is black that maybe he doesn't have the connection that the white kids of the 60s had, because many of them were Episcopalians and many of them were Jewish. So, but you know, he really is not. Well, he does go against Trump in some instances, but the thing is he's still. I think there's a connection there between all the conservative governors that they want to do things their way, whether it's right or best for the country.

Rev Lynne: 32:51

The young people have a phrase called being woke. Being woke, what is it that you think that we need to be woke about now?

Charles Person: 33:02

I'm going to have to say this because I do not understand the term woke. I've never used it. I don't know, you know, and none of my friends or colleagues use it. I really don't know what being woke means.

Rev Lynne: 33:14

So it's about a level of being conscious, watching out for things that are on the road and being able to see beyond what's in front of what this is happening like banned books. There's a movement now in some of our conservative states to ban black books, LBGTQ books, African American banned books and children's books, and so the sense of being woke is really okay. So this is a small start and pay attention. Pay attention, paying attention to what's happening. That may not be getting a lot of press, but is a form of subjugation and taking away our personal freedom.

Charles Person: 34:02

Well, I think well, as far as we're concerned, I don't think that everyone will ever give us credit for our intelligence. You know, they deny our history, they distort and they've stolen our history. You know they don't understand us. You know, if you excel, you're an exception rather than the norm. You know, I think the reason I haven't endorsed the movement is because the only time I've heard it mentioned is by conservatives, and it's just like they're more to not want us to teach black history as it is. I mean, if young people knew they could understand better and I think we could all improve better. But the thing is they have no idea how brutal slavery was.

Charles Person: 35:12

I, you know, I was blessed that NBC did an ancestry check on me and took me back to where my great, great great grandfather grew up on and the house that they lived on that plantation. The house was built in 1814, and most of it is still up and they were explaining to that the brick and those type of things on the plantation the bricks were built by those were made by the slaves, the enslaved people, and you know he was over 500 or so acres and the guy that owns it now he's not doing anything with it. It's just there and I've asked my daughter she a realtor. If it ever gets on the market. I like to at least make a bid for it. I'd like to own it, but it's just sitting there and he, he has a house over here, a modern house, and the other is just just there.

Rev Lynne: 36:15

Have you ever thought about just contacting him?

Charles Person: 36:18

I talked to him.

Rev Lynne: 36:19

And he says he doesn't want to sell it.

Charles Person: 36:21

That was when I was down there. Where is this house? In Covington, Covington, Georgia, Monroe, that area, that was a lot of us people settled in that area. It's in Jasper County is what it is.

Rev Lynne: 36:36

So when NBC, did the an cestral piece did they do anything around your ancestral DNA in terms of your heritage and your African connection?

Charles Person: 36:46

Yes, I'm 92% African, From where Most of my folks are, from West Africa, but also wherever the connection in Ghana.

Rev Lynne: 36:57

Closer to the Ghanaian side. Okay, very, very interesting. One of the things that it's very powerful, and you've kind of mentioned this, is about the spiritual, religious connection. Dr King being a Baptist, were you an Episcopalian at that time or were you a Baptist?

Charles Person: 37:18

I was a Baptist.

Rev Lynne: 37:21

So some more questions. What took you to the Episcopal Church?

Charles Person: 37:25

Okay, well, first of all my mother's. You know, once we got up she says you're going to go to church every Sunday. I don't care where you go, but you're going to church. So I got a chance to go to all the churches in what was then Fulphal ward. I even came to some over on the west side, like Warren, and the only reason I didn't go to a Catholic church? Because we had Our Lady of Lords who was right down the street from us. But in those days the Mass was in Latin so there was no English. So I did everything to a Catholic church, even though we had teachers at my high school who was encouraging us to become Catholics. But how I became an Episcopalian is very interesting.

Rev Lynne: 38:18

I see the smile on your face Well.

Charles Person: 38:20

I was going to. I was up for it one time I was a. I wanted to go into church on me and I had a friend who was very dear to me and my family at the time and we did a lot of community work together and then then aides thought I would make a good priest. So I was a postulate for the priesthood but then I caught up in the war and everything and I didn't follow it. But I was baptized and confirmed in Dallas. Our r ector was his name was Richard Allen believe it or not, white guy and it was two black families in our congregation. But it was a wonderful group of people and they really just welcomed us into the fold.

Rev Lynne: 39:26

Were you aware that the Episcopal Church actually had its own student movement?

Charles Person: 39:31

Yeah.

Rev Lynne: 39:32

Yeah, it's called ESCRU, the Episcopal Service Corps. I forget what the R in U stands for, but the long term rector of Incarnation, Father Driesbach, was a part of ESCRU, which was the Episcopal piece of it's, kind of similar to the Atlanta.

Charles Person: 39:55

Student Movement.

Rev Lynne: 39:57

And it was a national well East Coast based primarily East Coast and the South, and it always had its foot in public protest. That's one thing we do pretty good is to protest. As protestants, we still live to the protest piece of it. I want to wind us down a little bit and just say, number one thank you for your service. Thank you for your service and military, but also to thank you for your service in the Civil Rights Movement. I think that you are my hero and you will always be my hero. If there was advice that you would like to give to young people today, what would you say?

Charles Person: 40:51

Well, you know, one thing that I tell kids mostly is read, read. No, I mean, I suggest that every room in your house have some kind of reading material, even the bathrooms. You may not be there long, but there's a paragraph or something that you wouldn't read otherwise. I think between cell phones and computers, our kids have gotten away from turning a book and I think sometimes, you know, it's just good to reach back and grab a book. That would be the number. One thing is because they don't want us to read what they say for black people. You want to hide something from them, put it in a book.

Rev Lynne: 41:47

Wow, wow, that's I don't know if you're aware, but Incarnation. We now have a children's banned book library, that we have your books as well in that library. Most of the books, though, are for children The Story Ruby Bridges, All Boys Don't Wear Blue, Just Sulwe by Yopeto (Nupita Lyong'o), I believe, is my last name I said that wrong but just a series of books that we have been collecting for children to come and read. My biggest fear people have asked me why don't you do it on the computer? Get the books on the computer, because if the book stops selling, there's no compulsion from an editor to print them. And once I heard the statement, the greatest weapon you could ever have is the book in your backpack, and what your statement that you just gave just affirmed that that is the greatest weapon that one could ever have To our readers. I still want to recommend to you, especially during the season of Lent to purchase a copy of

Rev Lynne: 43:06

Buses Are A Comin'. You can purchase them on Amazon. You can also purchase them at Incarnation. And also to consider looking at an African American children's banned book and donating it to your local church to keep it in the library. I thank you. This is Lynn Washington. I am the priest in charge at the Church of the Incarnation in Southwest Atlanta. You may join us at 11 am Stream on Facebook Live. And until next time, peace. Alafia Shalom Holtham. Thank you.