Racebox: Outside the Box
Join us for a look into the daily life of Racebox! Here on our Podcast we will be discussing anything from tuning, to builds, to even our own personal lives. This is a raw and unhinged look into all things Racebox!
Racebox: Outside the Box
Outside the Box: A Moonshine Special on the LF4
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Check in with Hussain and Moonshine for a more in depth look into the LF4 platform, Hussain's take on Sugar daddies, and more!
Racebox Discussion on Outside the Box
Speaker 1Alright, welcome back to episode 3 of the Racebox Outside the Box podcast. I was told we have to do an intro this time, so I'm doing an intro. So now we have an intro. Maybe we'll get real editing someday and we'll have like an intro music and all the cool stuff and all these other cool podcasts.
Speaker 3Are we cool enough for that yet?
Speaker 1I don't know what try. We imported a Chinese man to work and didn't work well.
Speaker 3How much can you politically say Is that okay to say it's so funny because it's like Anna and I would clap back, but Winshine can't.
Speaker 1Winshine's like. Are we allowed to say this? Anna's like hell yeah, let's be realistic.
Speaker 3Yeah, I would like to not get canceled immediately on the internet.
Speaker 1You're very white, so you would get canceled.
Speaker 3Yes, I'm too white for this, so that was hardly an introduction. Special guest is me today.
Speaker 1Yeah, so Anna's not here today. It's a rare occurrence. We got mad at her if she doesn't talk loud enough, so we got someone who actually has a projecting voice.
Speaker 2No, actually we brought.
Speaker 1Alex here to talk about the LF4. So Anna will be back on the next podcast, probably unless Alex and I do a great job and you guys love it and then we'll just fire Anna all together.
Speaker 3If you want to see more of me, comment, or I don't know how podcasts work, say something in some manner.
Speaker 1Say something in some manner. That's how podcasts work. Yes, Just say things in some manner.
Speaker 3No, I'm talking about comments. Are people able to comment on podcasts?
Speaker 1On YouTube, I guess so.
Speaker 3If it's on YouTube, Okay comment.
Speaker 1They can't comment on Spotify. They can leave reviews, maybe, but they can comment on YouTube. Yeah, they can use no comments.
Speaker 2So far we haven't gotten any negative comments.
Speaker 1We got negative comments from our videos a lot. We had some guy today who posted up Anna and he's like this is where you have bad customer service. I'm like yeah, I'm a bad customer service.
Speaker 3Well, I guess at the end of this, if y'all like me, comment so I can come back and do that, or at the end of this, if y'all are waiting on revisions, then I need to go and never come back.
Speaker 1Never come back. Just get quiet If we talk about this.
Speaker 2I guess she's doing the moonshine effect where you talk loud and you get quiet. I start loudly and then I get quiet.
Speaker 1Yeah, you can shut up and you gotta get it and you gotta enunciate and stay straight. Alright, what happened to your mouth? Why you got so many chapped lips everywhere.
Speaker 3Last weekend I went to Colorado.
Speaker 1They went without me.
Speaker 3They didn't even invite me. That's a lie. I went to Colorado. Obviously I can't handle anything outside of Texas, so my lips got very chapped very quickly and now I'm recovering.
Speaker 1That's unfortunate. You know, when you kick this you're making the camera move.
Speaker 3You gotta stop kicking the desk.
Speaker 1Move back from the desk. Moonshine Slight.
Speaker 3Move back. I did. Now I'm not gonna hit it.
Speaker 1You guys ever wonder why moonshine's not on more like Instagram lives and stuff. This is why.
Speaker 2Yep.
Speaker 1We brought him here because we want to test it out. We want to see how moonshine does for the audience.
Speaker 3See how. I do Alright. Well then, let's get to questions and we can see how I do you want?
Speaker 1to just jump right into it.
Speaker 3Yeah, let's just start, you don't want to bullshit a little bit more. No, no, no, because I want to start with the first question. We can bullshit after the first question. The first one is that's the first question. Oh God, why does Hussein Bully moonshine at work? I want to know this. He's an easy target. It's the only answer. He's a super easy target when. I was a kid.
Speaker 1I bullied people. I was a bully in school and then I got bullied and then I bullied more people. And now as a boss. I can bully whoever I want, because I have this concept that bosses are sugar daddy's. Oh God, I told moonshine this a long time ago. What is the difference between? So it doesn't work on like a corporate skill, because a guy paying your bills and the CEO and there's like a whole board and all that.
Speaker 3but like in a small business.
Speaker 1How is a small business owner any different from a sugar daddy to his employees? Because, think about it, a sugar daddy you pay them. Sorry, a sugar daddy pays you for services rendered, right, whatever that may be, whatever that encompasses for the sugar daddy. In this case, I pay you for putting out tunes and I am your sole source of income. Your whole livelihood is thanks to me. Therefore, I'm your sugar daddy. What if we just look at it?
Speaker 3the other way around. Do you guys agree Please?
Speaker 1comment and tell me if you agree that bosses are sugar daddy's. How about?
Speaker 3we just I'm saying no, but, or we can just view it the other way around, where sugar daddy's are actually just employers.
Speaker 2Or yeah, or sugar daddy is a valid employer.
Speaker 1They should. All sugar daddy's should write that they're self, that they are employers and should get tax benefits.
Speaker 3Does that mean if you have a sugar daddy you should be 1099? That's a good question. Does the government count that as employer?
Speaker 1Excellent question. You know what All the girls that have sugar daddy's y'all should be filing for 1099.
Speaker 3If I have to pay taxes, pay your taxes. So do you? Yeah, pay your taxes exactly.
Speaker 1I could talk about payroll taxes. Yeah, yeah, I'm sure.
Speaker 3Payroll taxes suck, taxes in general suck.
Speaker 1I wish I could 1099 everyone and not have to pay payroll tax Anyway.
Speaker 3I think you're stopping too early. It's not about payroll taxes, but taxes in general. It's true.
Speaker 1I hate taxes. Let's go to Dubai.
Speaker 3No taxes, we can run a big shop in Dubai, or we can overthrow the government, something like that See, white people can say that I can't say that If I said that the FBI would be watching this podcast right now. I didn't say that he did. Alright. Question number two Is this directed towards me? What got you into tuning? Or is this directed to you? Well, it's directed to me.
Speaker 1But Chawans has directed towards you?
Speaker 3Have you answered this question before? No, have you joined in? I mean, I answered the question for myself.
Speaker 1Oh, a fun fact, as you guys know, moonshine does not watch any of our YouTube videos or our podcast. He doesn't support the team, yet he wanted to be on the podcast, so if you had watched our podcast, he would know that I did in fact answer this question for myself last time.
Speaker 3I don't really have a good excuse on that one. I would likely watch this one as long as I can.
Speaker 1Why? Because you're narcissistic. You're watching, you didn't. Let me finish.
Speaker 3I would watch this one as long as I can withstand my voice, and then whenever I get too annoyed by it, I will stop.
Speaker 1Oh, I hate hearing my voice on this podcast.
Speaker 3Exactly, I don't want to hear my voice, but I want to see how I sound. So how did you get into tuning? So how did I get into tuning?
Speaker 1I'm going to fact check it if you lies.
Speaker 3A couple years ago I met this really annoying dude with a white Q50. First time I ever met him. Actually, he tried to sell me his lowering springs.
Speaker 1I did Like first thing off my bat. He didn't buy them.
Speaker 3I did not. I didn't have any money at the time with no money, so shortly after that, just chatting with him. I've always been interested in cars, how things worked like that. I've worked on cars since I was young. I've rebuilt boaters with my dad, things like that, and so I was very interested. Once I've learned that he was doing tuning, how it worked, I was asking a bunch of questions, stuff like that. All the while I was in school at University of Houston I kept asking more and more questions because I liked the technical aspect of it and I started helping out with Racebox first.
Speaker 3I started with doing responding to Instagram messages and shipping stuff like that. So if you were messaging Racebox back in 2020, late 2020, it was me responding to you and then after that.
Speaker 1Sorry, Instagram followers went down once. I'm going to try and take over.
Speaker 3Yeah, I want to see the data on that one. And then after that, hussain started teaching me, as I started wanting to learn more and more into the technical aspect of it, but I feel like a lot of my previous knowledge with how engines work carried over. Hussain taught me the remaining gaps that I had.
Speaker 1It's a scary thought that I taught him.
Speaker 3And then from there then it's learned all of it. Then we deal with a lot of cars in person as well, so I get even more in depth experience with that. And that's how I mean I went to school for engineering, so a pretty technical basis behind it, and then from there, engines are a pretty simple basis and then from there tuning that is just modifying that to be more efficient and more powerful.
Speaker 1I'll add that moonshine. So I used to live in downtown and I would have a moonshine come somebody before we had Racebox as a shop. I was just doing it out of my apartment. It's funny because there's like a lot of jokes. I'm like, oh see who's an apartment tuner, a COVID apartment tuner.
Speaker 3But I mean, it's true.
Speaker 1I was a COVID apartment tuner. Anyway, moonshine used to come to my apartment and then I would make him get me lunch, so he lives. At the time he lived about 25 miles from me, probably. Yeah, about 30 or 40 minutes, so I would be like all right, you're going to come at 10. You come at 10. We'd bullshit for a couple hours, I think half the time I was playing video games when he shot up to my apartment.
Speaker 3I would show up. Wait about 10 to 15 minutes for him to finish. This is his league of legends, like the nerd he is.
Speaker 1And then we'd finally start working, and then we'd work for like an hour and I'd be like moonshine, go get me lunch. Go get lunch and then come, and then I'd teach him for about two, three hours a day. We did that for what? Three months, two months.
Speaker 3Yeah, I said, think about two months, something like that.
Speaker 1And then he started tuning in January and I think originally we actually had him replying from my account. We didn't have him saying Alex.
Speaker 2For a minute.
Speaker 1Oh, we pretended, like he was just my secretary and not actually tuning, because we were afraid of how people would react. I'm like, oh, we're saying he's not tuning my car anymore and it's funny because we still get this. We're like, oh, can I get tuned by Hussein? I'm like I don't think you guys understand. Alex gives more shit about your stock turbo cars than I do. Like, if you're a stock turbo car, I'm sorry. Alex, probably would do a better job. Sometimes I actually after I've done a tune. I'm like Alex, do you want to clean up fueling for me?
Speaker 1It's like, if you ever see me, I'm like oh yeah, I cleaned up, fueling a little bit Each and every, probably Alex.
Speaker 3I give each and every tune my whole, but tuning between me or him, whether Hussein's tuning or whether I tune it, is going to be the same results. He taught me how to tune. We both agree on how to tune, in the same aspects of how tuning goes, and so we have the same tune, whether me or Hussein tunes it.
Speaker 1We do. It's identical. I mean in real talk, like there's minor differences in how Alex and I tune. Like he pays, he definitely pays a little more attention to, like, perfecting fuel trims, but in terms of the result that you get, you get the same result whether he tunes it or I tune it. But yeah, so that's how we got into tuning. How do you get hard at race bikes? You covered that already. Yeah, I covered that one. How?
Speaker 2big is Chidong?
Speaker 1I guess you're asking this because of we use Chidong as a unit of measure, so Chidong weighs like 110 pounds.
Speaker 2He's like oh okay, sorry, that's too long. Sorry, he's 120.
Speaker 1130. Okay, I'm sorry, he's 130 pounds wet. Thanks, chidong.
Speaker 3You gained some weight. I did, I did a little bit of a jet today, so that's maybe 129.
Speaker 1Yeah, 128. And then now he's what six foot one.
Speaker 3Six foot.
Speaker 1I'm right under six. Okay, he's 5'11, 1.5.
Speaker 2I guess I'm taller than you. Shut up.
Speaker 1Chidong is slightly taller than me, so that's a Chidong. Chidong wide is probably like because of how skinny he is, he's like a foot wide, I would say.
Speaker 3So that's your measurements for how big is Chidong yeah? So Chidong is our weight reduction. It comes to running a car, he's a straight driver man, it's just him.
Speaker 1It's a tenth right off if you put Chidong in the car. I'm not answering the next one. He's not good for a public broadcast.
Comparing Track Cars
Speaker 3Back to me If you never bought a CT4, what would you have bought? So, starting from the beginning, I've always wanted to track my cars to actual road course racing like that. So whenever I bought the Supra that was the first time I really had a car capable of doing that I kind of built that car more for straight line. But I did do two track days with it and I immediately fell in love with what I was doing tracking. After pushing the Supra more on straight line I just didn't have the same amount of fun going running a nine second quarter as I do just going around the track. So as I started getting more tired of the Supra, as far as just having occasional issues as it goes, building a car making nine inch horsepower, just little bits here and there, you got to build supporting lots, stuff like that.
Speaker 3So, moving away from that and wanting to do more of a track car rather than a drag car, I was looking at options. I probably would have gone with Corvette if one of my close friends didn't have one already. So outside of that, looking at a car that is really track capable from factory and has a manual transmission really only left a few options and then obviously a bunch is a big concern. So the CT4 Cadillac themselves give you a track day with you Whenever you first get a car. They'll give you a two day event at Spring Mountain.
Speaker 1I don't know why you look at me.
Speaker 3I don't track cars out somewhere out west, like California, nevada that area. They give you a track day with purchase of the vehicle. So obviously they design these cars to be tracked and so they come with six piston brakes up front for piston brakes in the rear, great cooling mods, spoiler arrow. The CT4 has the carbon package so it has even confront canards left large spoiler, most down force They've ever put on a Cadillac actually. And then.
Speaker 3That is why, when you ask me to question it, prepare for a long answer, keep going so that information so that all these features is into a good factory tracked spec car as well as that's under warranty, I can beat the crap out of it, not really have to worry. So all that was just appealing on why I chose CT4. Other options I didn't really look into too much else. If I'm being honest, the manual is one of the bigger things I have after about the CT4. Went and drove a G80 manual and I really just was not impressed with the manual transmission. The CT4 has a TR 6060, which is just one of the best transmissions you can get out there as far as manuals go. The BMW transmission wasn't bad, but I'd honestly probably spec an M3 competition over a manual base M3.
Speaker 1I will agree that the Transcendant CT4 is butter like I suck at driving stick and you and I love driving this car.
Speaker 3It's very smooth, it's a very easy manual drive, yeah, that on top of the no-lift shift and everything. I just feel very comfortable pushing. That car has one of the great, one of the best chassis on the market you can get. If you read all the the reviews from like car and driver. Motor trim, though They'll back up to CT4 is one of the great driving cars. So With that I was either looking at a CT4 or a C7 quartet Grand Sport. That was really about it. So ended up with the C, with the CT4.
Speaker 1Cool, that was a very, very complete answer. It's very funny because normally when I answer questions I mostly just on the person that asked the question or give like a Mean responses, like a very whole holistic response to the questions. Very good, hopefully, people who want to know what CT4 is got what they wanted out of that.
Speaker 3That's because you answer like an asshole. Facts make that one loud into the mic.
Speaker 1I don't dispute that fact, alright. Will moonshine's car ever smoke the same Z? Or now say I'm gonna answer this one no, it won't, because it's slow. So we have not refused to put E on the car. So on 93, which makes what? 47?
Speaker 3It makes about 500 the wheels now that we've tuned it.
Speaker 1I'm not. The wheels in a six-speed manual means that both the Z is gonna gap it, and also my essay, my boat will gap it, and so well, neither I would like to.
Speaker 3I would actually like to do a roll race with the Z, just because I'm the Z on 93.
Speaker 1We're doing a three-way roll race tomorrow with the G80, the E-tron and. Yes and you need a gap.
Speaker 3So no, it'll be interesting. So the funny was in the E-tron. Walk away from both the E-tron will walk away, but the G80 should be good run because the G80 is all stock. Where's the black wing is is just down by. I was driving it right. You're gonna win. Mo can't drive but it's a downpipe tune with the on the Cadillac and then all stock on the G80, so should be pretty good race there, but as far as the Z. What's your MSR key?
Speaker 1All right.
Speaker 3Well, we didn't finish the Z, I think the Z on 93, I think, would be a pretty good race.
Speaker 1So the nine speed would speed it up? Well, no but on 93. You're running 83 already on that car. Well, yeah, on the last one, how do you forget this? You're running 8 to 8. 8 to 8 to 9, 8 to 9. Sorry, 8 to 9. Yeah, it would still 8 the Z would actually gap the e-tron to, but that's it would win out of all these cars.
Speaker 3Yes oh, we did. We did get the the downpipe Okay. I was gonna say I forgot that you got the downpipe exhaust on. But if the Z had a stock exhaust on 93, I feel like it'd be a good race. Probably Exhaust on 90 would be a good race.
Speaker 2Yeah, nice.
Speaker 1Yeah, I agree. All right, what does everyone draw? I'm gonna rank this in order of fastest slow, so Chidong has the fastest one with a. Supra.
Speaker 2You never let us forget it.
Speaker 1Every time we go to road he's like oh, you guys don't have any injuries, All right, whatever man Anyway, so it's Chidong Supra then. I think, my essay is the next fastest. Yeah, so Chidong runs for what's the best you're at 489 Now. 489, 60 130.
Speaker 3Stock block stock manifold 64 66 it used to be Moe, but Moe sold his G is.
Speaker 1Oh, he's fast in the essay so.
Speaker 2Moe would have been.
Speaker 1Moe would be number two, but his G20 is gone. So now essay gets bumped, a number to the essay on stock turbos and a downpipe. Everything else basically stop. Why did I did fuel lines and plunge?
Speaker 3it. He's 50 on a week at E40 in the winter.
Speaker 1This was before the inner chiller to it. We're in a 69 1, 60 130 back to back.
Speaker 3Would you in your end consistent 10 7s in 3500 DA 10 6s?
Speaker 1Yeah, so we did. We did so. Yeah, the essay is quick for what it is stock turbo.
Speaker 3So we're putting for a pilot was 4500 pounds. It's fast.
Speaker 1Yeah, more ways, more ways, more than that, yeah it's 40, it's 47 and change empty, and then you put me in it. So that's like 5000, and then you put like a full tank of gas. It's, it's heavy.
Speaker 2Yeah, but.
Speaker 1Yeah, it's fun. So that's number two, and then I guess the Z's number three, which is kind of sad and we're getting really slow at this point, hopefully hopefully Z will be number one soon, or number two at least. Then you've got, and you've got the e-tron is number four so it goes to wrong scar the three of my cars and then, and then Moe's car, and then your car.
Speaker 3We'll find out tomorrow. Tomorrow which one's quicker? I think my car is a bit quicker. I have. I have more mid-range, I should.
Speaker 1Mine makes about 540, we go torque and about 500 you should be quicker, but we'll see what the it depends on your shifting though right, because this is not a horse Park, so I actually so yes, they speak will stay in the power band better.
Speaker 3The the g80 is is more top-end, whereas I'm more mid-range.
Speaker 1I'm gonna do a jb4 g80. I told no.
Speaker 2Yeah, let's do the zoo, jx4 and see how far there's not one guy who's trying to push nines in the g80.
Speaker 1I thought that was six. Now I want to do it.
Speaker 3Yeah, I think I think on jb4 alone, they've done, they've done a 10-0, which is very impressive.
Speaker 1I want to do jb4 nines 9.9 with xhp stage 3 drag.
Speaker 3Well we'll see who wins. I'm working on convincing mode to start tracking with me, so if I before.
Speaker 1It's perfect If I just take it off what he wants to go tracking true if I can get a bit addicted to that, he won't be interested in my entire toss five, five thousand something pounds around, just chill myself. Anyway then, after my car and mentioning Ronnie's car, and then you have the highlighter.
Speaker 3Yeah, Anna has a civic SI makes like 140 horsepower on a good day. Ronnie has a 340 I. That will be fast soon, but not at the moment. Yeah, and then I have my my vq manual swapped q50.
Speaker 1Sorry, yeah, there's still that then in this car Anna's like bottom of the bottom of the barrel. It's sad. I tried convincing her to get another question.
Speaker 3I won't sell the SI because what else is the highlighter? She likes the highlighter.
Speaker 1There's cars that are highlighted. Is that an OEM color on her car? Are you serious? They offered that as an actual color, it's so gross, but I think that covers everything.
Speaker 3I keep. I'm looking at the camera to see what cars are left.
Speaker 1But yeah, that covers everything the trucks going away, Otherwise the trucks probably faster than this car too.
Speaker 3You know before, before the truck goes we should drag in this car.
Speaker 2We should also put on the dyno.
Speaker 3I want to see you put down 800 wheel torque.
Speaker 1Yeah, do you want to toss it on the dyno too, dog.
Speaker 3I'll break.
Speaker 1It's fine.
Speaker 3You don't need it. Yeah, you use the engine braking to slow it down. All right, we're gonna put the truck on the dyno.
Speaker 1We're getting a badge in the dyno.
Speaker 3I call you to swap that. It should strap easily. There's actually, it should be. You can strap without having to get on lay down on the ground actually. Yeah, it's true, be perfect Toe hooks.
Speaker 1No, we should drag race the SI.
Speaker 3Will win.
Speaker 2I think that's.
Speaker 3I will win truck will win.
Speaker 1You know what? We have a computer for us.
Speaker 3Let's look at this road, the truck is gonna run like a 16.
Speaker 1Cummins 60 to 130 Stock. I can't let you 130. It's diesel truck resource forms. Anyone ever run in the 60 130 mob, are they?
Speaker 3all gonna be modified? No, we're looking for stock. It's limited to 105 miles an hour.
Speaker 1Oh, that's so true she would win because I get Shut down at once, damn it. You could look up for tomorrow. So you, we come here and I know you're dealing with your dyno, and below 100 miles an hour. Yeah, you wouldn't be accurate. It has like gear limiter you can limit it to a fourth gear. Assumption it's a 60. Yeah, we couldn't. It's not a precious, so try in theory would have been fun. Okay, that's fine, all right.
Speaker 3next, question what is everyone's dream car? We're just by everyone. We're gonna cover me and you sing.
Dream Cars and Car Engine Discussion
Speaker 1Yeah, we're not going through. I don't know too much work I you know I ask this question a lot, I guess because I want a performance. I'm gonna assume I have a dream, car I actually don't there's not like a single car that I just want and I need to get it, or something I don't dream like. I don't dream of like driving a Bugatti or anything like that.
Speaker 2I Don't have a dream, come in.
Speaker 1I have. I have a bunch of cars that I would like that one point, owner drive but I don't have one that's like my dream.
Speaker 3All right, so what are a few of your of your options? As far as I look, what cars.
Speaker 1So now I'm showing me that what is an 80s and 90s CS are beautiful, but it's still I.
Speaker 3So what is it? What is one or two cars that you would like to own sometime in your life? Yeah, I want a 9-11 turbo.
Speaker 1I think a 9-11 turbo s is like the ultimate daily nines off the factory floor not electric Like a plaid school, but it's only good for straight line and I full self-drive. 9-11 turbo s would be sick and I want to own a 9-11 turbo s for sure beyond that. But it's not like a dream car. I don't like. I Would also like to drive many other cars, so yeah, there's a.
Speaker 1I wouldn't say it's the closest thing I have to a dream car and I love a 10-11 turbo s for me as a kid, which is the closest, I'll probably say, to a dream car.
Speaker 3I wanted a Jin 5 viper for for years. But now there's so many cars I want nowadays it's. It all depends on on what budget you're talking about. So, probably like if I, if I ever hit the lottery and I have the ability to buy cars, I probably buy a viper, a Jin 5 viper, a Jin 2 r8 and an f-pace SVR.
Speaker 1No, no, no, no. Everyone knows it. You know why? Because you don't watch our podcast. When I talked about your obsession, oh yeah, this is your last time I mentioned it, yeah see, I told you guys I wasn't kidding, he's obsessed with it.
Speaker 3I said to an amazing VR yesterday on marketplace listening.
Speaker 1He didn't buy it though.
Speaker 3You sent me a Range Rover sport and caught it in a speed that not it's it's literally the same power plant, the same Chassis as an f-pace SVR.
Speaker 1It is different.
Speaker 3It actually probably looks better than an f-pace SVR wrong anyways, for those of you this is why I? Believe him. Yes, if you like the f-pace SVR, and you know what it is. Leave us a comment like it ever.
Speaker 1Don't, don't, please, don't, don't, don't encourage him, please, please encourage you so hard to stop this f-pace SVR obsession? Please don't our non-car hobbies. I don't. I was gonna say I don't have hobbies I used to have a lot more hobbies you play a lot of League of Legends.
Speaker 3League of Legends I play League of Legends play.
Speaker 1Battlebit, which is an awesome fun game.
Speaker 2It's like it's like battlefield, but with like none of the graphics. It's like a Minecraft version of battlefield.
Speaker 1It's awesome. I I'm a big hiker. Hiking and skiing are like my only other two hobbies that I have. I'm very basic like that. My wife and I we go skiing like two or three times a year and then we do like a big trip.
Speaker 3You go more than two or three times.
Speaker 1Not like two or three times, like we'll try and go no, but last year you went at least three. I went three until once, but I do Because he's never here working.
Speaker 3And then hiking. We do a lot of hiking trips, you do yeah.
Speaker 1We do a lot of hiking trips and overnighting and stuff like that Backpacking it's fun stuff.
Speaker 3I play tennis sometimes if I can get free time.
Speaker 1Otherwise I play Call of Duty.
Speaker 3Warzone. I feel like that sounded way cooler than it actually was.
Speaker 1Battlebit sounds cooler than Warzone.
Speaker 3Not very good at Warzone.
Speaker 1He's actually really good at tennis, though Sometimes, so he says Alright moving on LF4 talk.
Speaker 3We talked about this already.
Speaker 1Why did you pick the LF4?, didn't you? Yeah, you basically covered this in your obsessive point. Why did you pick the LF4? Why did you pick the LF4?
Speaker 3The LF4 is a good and bad engine at the same time. So GM being GM doesn't know how to innovate in amazing ways like some of the other manufacturers. I joke, you're just really in his entire audio. It's good, we can delete that anyways out of it.
Speaker 1It's an advertisement for cabbages. Alright, so the LF4.
Speaker 3So GM is kind of a strange company in some of the things they do. So as far as the LF4, it's almost as if, in my opinion, the GM treated that car as a supercharged V8 and then they added turbo. So the intercooler system is on top, the throttle body is after the intercoolers. I believe it's a very weird design.
Speaker 1The intercooler bricks are relatively small. Most modern turbocharged cars have the throttle body after the intercooler. Q50s are like that.
Speaker 3Oh, it is after the oh, I guess. Okay, I didn't put. Can we delete that? I'm going to restart. No, you want to have real knowledge that you look like an idiot talking about your car.
Speaker 1For once. It's really annoying because you still have random knowledge that no one gives a shit about. It's not necessarily a rat.
Speaker 3It's not necessarily a throttle body. It's a very weirdly put up because the manifold is on the intercooler. Bricks are on top as a one big piece manifold. The way that you get is like with a supercharger on top, so the supercharger pushes the air through the bricks then into the engine. It's organized the same way just without the supercharger on top. The turbos on the side just go straight to the manifold on top, which is really weird. As far as all the other turbo engines you see, they either have front mount intercoolers.
Speaker 3Obviously, then that one's very obvious. Or you have the air to water, but those are still all external to the manifold or the part of the manifold, whereas this one is kind of strange on how it's located right on top and it's kind of integrated into the manifold. The downside of that is that the intercooler bricks are pretty small, lf4s in general run pretty hot, I can attest to that. Yeah, so if you ever look at data logs, like the HSVs, even the black wing stuff like that. They did improvements on the black wing cooling.
Speaker 1It's pretty widely put.
Speaker 3titanium the manifold temps are all pretty high on that, but it comes with four rods, and so they're a great platform for making power Even then, as well, as just the platform itself is kind of slept on as far as what power you make it is limited on fueling as far as aftermarket goes.
Speaker 3To an extent, xdi knows coming out of some injectors pretty soon, so those should be more promising. Even so, with essentially two mods, downpipe and a flexible sensor you can run E30. And most cars. That's impressive. They make about 550 horsepower on E30 and about 580 wheel torque. That's enough to get you in the mid 760 to 130 with essentially two mods in a tune.
Speaker 1They make over 600 on full E right.
Speaker 3Yeah, you can get about 600 on full E. To do that, there's a few options. You can do high pressure fuel pump or fuel cam and you also got to upgrade your low pressure. But yeah, for very minimal mods they make great power. I mean on a Q50, and that's all. Stock turbo on a Q50 you're really limited to about 500 or more. You can throw everything at the stock turbo as you're limited by 500. Even on a B58 you're limited to maybe 540 on stock turbo, but it's very short.
Speaker 1It's like basically you kill the trans down low, throw like 750 wheel torque at it and then you make 500 on the end of the type Up top.
Speaker 3They're not ever making it Exactly, whereas the LF4 makes all power to redline and you can definitely get over 600 wheel horsepower with stock turbos, which is very impressive on that platform, and then the motor is strong enough to handle it. Issue with the VR30, the motor isn't that strong. So for stock turbos it's great, but once you go upgrade your turbos.
Speaker 1That is your biggest limitation. What are the middle options out there in the CT4?
Speaker 3Not too many. I believe Pure makes one, and then I think Turbo Bay makes a set as well. What kind?
Speaker 1of powers. I know, I know Over 700. Yeah, because Tudin puts like on an older LF4, on an ATSV, it puts like 1000 horsepower, does it?
Speaker 3Yeah, Tapow did over 1000 wheel horsepower on an. Lf4, and they did that with just stock rods, upgraded pistons. I believe they did head studs. I'd have to go and look at it again.
Speaker 1A light build, essentially Relatively light build big turbos and they made over 1000 on it. That's beautiful. That's so sweet, that's impressive. I just want to see a six cylinder pushing that with just rods, pistons and head studs.
Speaker 3Not even rods, stock rods oh okay, okay, they're titanium forged rods.
Speaker 1That's such a caveat that's the same as when the V-Fatigue is there.
Speaker 3It will be.
Speaker 1VR30s upgrade their exhaust. It's like yeah, well, obviously you guys have a nice exhaust from factory. It doesn't count. Yeah, they have good rods from factory. Fine, okay, fine.
Speaker 3Pistons and head studs. That's insane. But they have good rods, which means from factory. You don't really have to worry about torque. As far as stock, do LF4s boom? I mean they can, but do you see people booming those motors a lot they share. The issues as B58s is that you go through a piston rather than a rod. A V-O30, you'll have been to a rod where there's a B58.
Speaker 1LF4. We do see a lot on V-O30s with the cylinder 5.
Speaker 2Other triggers do too.
Speaker 1It's not just us everybody it's like the one cylinder that almost always goes out of cylinder 5. And those are usually, you'll see, the piston yeah you just use a piston. So that's heat issues on a VR30.
Speaker 3Yeah, but yeah, otherwise, I think one of the biggest limitations on the LF4s is it's going to be fueling what?
Speaker 1turbos did they use on the 12-in-1 horseback? That wasn't pure. It must have been like a custom Garrett setup.
Speaker 3I don't know.
Speaker 1Cool. Well, there's a bunch of questions here, but you answered some of them, so I'm going to sit through. Do you plan on drag-strip? I already do. You don't drag it. I don't plan on doing any drag-strip with the CT4.
Speaker 3How hot is your oil temp on the track, alex? I plan on leaving the, so all of your customers.
Speaker 1You tell them to maintain their cars and you get mad at them when the temperatures are too hot. Tell them how hot your oil temp's got on your blackwood in the last track session.
Speaker 3So the highest I've pushed my oil temp to for an extended period is 280 degrees for about it held that for about 5 to 6 minutes of just 280 constantly.
Speaker 2He's proud of this I drive my car pretty aggressively, but that's why I picked the CT4.
Speaker 3GM did build a very strong motor. Do you know how he got this though?
Speaker 1When he first got the CT4, he was like guys, I'm going to track it and I'm not going to mod it so I can beat on it and not worry about warranty. Yes, it's tuned. Yes, the engine. So what happens when you push 280 degrees on a tuned car and then go?
Speaker 3The tune is very conservative. I kept it nice and safe. We should have kept it safe on my car. When he boomed my, I didn't boom yours, that was all your tuning, that was you.
Speaker 1Both of them were you.
Speaker 3Anyways, I don't plan on drag stripping the CT4.
Speaker 1It's manual, so even 60-130's are not going to keep that fast. Those are my CT's. They're boomed by Alex. The red sport and the old one. I don't let them touch the Z for that reason.
Speaker 3Aren't I dyno tuning the Z tomorrow Only because it's 110 degrees.
Speaker 1I don't want to sit there when it's 110 degrees.
Speaker 3The issue. The reason I tuned the CT4 is I wasn't planning on it. Part of the benefit of buying that car was that it was a locked ECU. Hb tuners then released support for it and, not even kidding, the next day I had the EC removed and sent out. So yeah, I'm great at resisting that urge. Yeah, he convinced me that we needed to sign up for the beta testing and luckily HB tuners approved us. They were like sure, you have a shop, you have a black wagon.
Speaker 1Fine, it's actually nice of them because we don't do a lot of GM stuff. So thanks HB tuners.
Speaker 3Yeah, great results Running open downpipes safe for the car you already kind of talked about cooling system.
Speaker 1What are your do's and do nots for an LF4? And also, I guess, open dumps. Okay, open downpipe and open dump are very different. I'll answer that Open downpipe. Don't run an open downpipe without a dump, because you're basically not angling the hot exhaust gases down. So I'm going to go with the HB tuner. If you have a dump that faces down, it's completely fine. It doesn't matter.
Speaker 3Yes, so cars like the LF4, it's a pretty good cat-back If you're really trying to push the turbos as hard as they go and you're doing max effort to, and then, yes, removing the cat-back, getting the dump, will provide more gains, more power. But the stock cat-back or even just an upgraded cat-back is good enough to where, if you're not really trying to push it, there's no reason to ever just run a dump. So I'm going to go with the HB tuner. There's no reason to ever just run a dump.
Speaker 1How Tuning. Okay, this is a good question for you. So I helped Alex learn how to tune the LF4, but, I, did it, so it's funny that he mentioned that it's very similar to the GM took no, that GM took like a supercharged a supercharged V8, and then made it into a six-cylinder turbo. Because, yeah, I would say that's true, just based on the tuning Like the tuning on the back end for an LF4 versus an LT4, they're almost identical. It's not very different from the fact that one's turbo-charged.
Speaker 3There's a bit different because it is turbo-charged. You have waste-gate duty and then the boost control.
Comparison of LF4 and VR30 Engines
Speaker 1Yeah, so outside of the boost control aspect of it it's all similar. The torque strategy and everything is all similar. The one thing that is different, obviously, is the timing curve is very different on a supercharged V8 versus, you know, a twin-turbo V6. But I would say that tuning-wise, the LF4 is very similar to an LT4. So I'm curious on your side. I'll let you answer this one.
Speaker 3How do you find the difference from the?
Speaker 1VR30?.
Speaker 3I personally think it's very different. I think the boost control systems on the two are very, very different. The LF4 doesn't technically have a specific target boost in the aspect of the VR30. They're controlled in very different ways and so the LF4 pretty much has a bunch of different multipliers that then turn into a boost target and in a lot of ways, depending on different conditions, that boost target can move around. As far as the tuning aspect goes, to get that boost target where you want it, we kind of fiddle with a boost limit To get the car to hold, whereas the VR30, I think is a lot more simple car to tune. You have your very basic boost targets. All your correction factors are like that. It's very, very simple to get the car to essentially target the boost that you want AnkyTech also, makes it really.
Speaker 3AnkyTech does make it very simple on the VR30. The LF4 platform also is different as far as throttle goes. I think it's more like the B58 in that aspect, with the way that it depends more on throttle closures, torque and load base. Torque and load base with the throttle closures and throttle opens as you go through the power band, whereas the VR30 will very quickly open your throttle and then your boost kind of gives you that difference in power.
Speaker 1It's very funny because the VR30 is technically also a torque based ECU logic. I don't know what you call it, but it is torque based. But then it doesn't aggressively close throttle like how the B64 and the Bosch is used and the BMWs do.
Speaker 3They're the same but different. If you over boost on a B58 or LF4, the car is going to cut close throttle on you pretty quickly. Whereas on the VR30, if you over boost, it doesn't cause throttle.
Speaker 1It tries to correct it by the PIDs, and if it can't, it's like okay, I guess we're blowing up and then you have a guy Alex had a customer with 220 charger attempts today 219, that's the record I've seen.
Speaker 3So the good option to add this in always check for a P14AC after you do any sort of cooling modification. That even matters if you just open up your cooling system and if it feels slow.
Speaker 1It's probably a problem with the heart. The amount of times that people have a tune, they go modify something and then the car doesn't run right and they think, oh hey, is the tune gone bad? Did the tune expire? The tune doesn't change, it stays the same. If you have a problem, it's probably a safety that we programmed in kicking in Usually chargers, like charger Phil said, kicks in a lot on these cars.
Speaker 3And I'm glad that it does we have it very aggressive for that reason that's the biggest thing we run into is really just skyrocketing chargers, do you?
Speaker 1remember that one customer we had who was convinced that it was the tune making the car slow and we were like, do you have active codes? And he had a P14AC. I had a 10 email long back in front of this customer, being really trying to explain to him why his car was active, but he has always come back while it doesn't do this on stock, so why does it do this on your tune?
Speaker 3And I'm like because the stock tune does not have a safety for chargers, yeah, the stock tune does not have a charger.
Speaker 1With the tune we add a safety for chargers. Yeah, I mean, think about it. Infinit doesn't even give you a check engine like for a P14AC.
Speaker 2They didn't consider it as a serious engine. They're like okay, fine, gross engine is fine.
Speaker 3But also you're like way less boost levels on stock right. Yeah, but yeah, that's true, but yeah, I mean either way, 200 plus degree attempts into the engine is not safe.
Speaker 1Check your charger systems. Lf4 vs VR30. So actually that's the first one. I'm curious about this one LF3 vs LF4 because I've asked you this.
Speaker 3So the LF3 that's the engine that's in the CTS-V sport, so very, very similar in a lot of ways. I actually don't know all the specifics to myself, just because I haven't gone down that rubble of knowing. Wow, this is a very boring answer.
Speaker 1I'm sorry whoever asked this question. Alex is not well informed on the LF3. You know, what He'll research it. He's going to obsess over it for the next week. I'm on the next podcast, Next podcast. I will come back.
Speaker 3He will interject and come in with his answer for us. I will explain the differences at that time. But as far as I know, the relatively minor changes is mostly just the LF4. There's a lot more beefier. I believe it has better cooling stuff like that. Just to bring it to that.
Speaker 1I'm guessing the LF3 does not come with titanium connecting rods?
Speaker 3Yeah, so I don't think it does, but I don't know for sure so I'm not going to speculate. But yeah, the LF4 definitely is going to be beefed up, because that's what they've been the ATS and they all designed those cars around going around the track, so they beefed them up very heavily.
Speaker 1They really designed them for road coursing. That's really what they push these cars for Really.
Speaker 2They're mostly used in drag.
Speaker 1Every time I look everyone's drag racing. You're one of the only people I've ever seen on the forum.
Speaker 3But as a manufacturer, manufacturer doesn't generally, besides, Dodge doesn't generally gear this car for drag racing.
Speaker 2So that's why the LF4, the ATS.
Speaker 3The BlackBring is very the chassis and suspension.
Speaker 1And the System Camaro too.
Speaker 3right, they're all built on the same yeah chassis and suspension is really everything that they've done. They made the car handle very well. It's one of the best handling cars in the class and then as far as how the chassis feels and all that is phenomenal. Lf4 versus VR it's not a competition. I'll answer this one. So it's time to turn on mod for mod from a dig. It's really not a competition. The VR30, if you get an all wheel drive, can hold its own for 0 to 60. Just so that it's on the street.
Speaker 1But if you're talking on a prep drag strip, the LF4, there is no competition.
Speaker 3Once you throw a drag race on the LF4, then Drag race stock turbo E.
Speaker 1The LF4 is going to dominate the VR30. That's the big difference.
Speaker 3Like max effort 93, lf4s are making over 500 horsepower. Vr30s are lucky to pass 4th.
Speaker 1You know it's funny, we get asked the B58, VR30 question a lot, but no one ever asked the LF4. The LF4s are there within the price range.
Speaker 3It's a very slept on platform.
Speaker 1Yeah, like a 2016,. Atsv is what Like 40K.
Speaker 3Or less. Yeah, you can get them pretty good.
Speaker 1Literally for that you put downpipe and a flex fuel kit, Nothing else. Downpipe and a flex fuel kit run E40, and you make it over 500.
Speaker 3Yeah, I mean, if you're looking at new red sports and new black wings. They're really not far off on price.
Speaker 1Yeah, it's crazy that we don't get asked the LF4 a question more. I guess because it's not considered, because it's a domestic car, right, no one really thinks about it.
Speaker 2But yeah, I mean LF4 is definitely out of the three. I would pick an LF4 any day.
Speaker 1If I was to mod it from the start Over a B58?.
Speaker 2If I was going to stick stock turbo.
Speaker 1I think if you're looking big car the B58, and once you're going to build motor then all of them are the same.
Speaker 3The B58 excels just because of how much aftermarket it has. The LF4 is a relatively low mass produced engine. It's in the ATSV and the CT4 black wing. That's it, Whereas the B58 is all over. Kyle has an X3 with the B58 making over 650 horsepower.
Speaker 1Kyle's car it doesn't make sense For what I've done to that car and how fast it runs, I'm like. So he gapped my S8 the other night and I'm like you've never run a draggy faster than my S8.
Speaker 1This doesn't make sense, but I think you just don't expect it. Everybody just sleeps on the hit with Kyle. It's an X3. It's a big SUV, you don't expect it. And then it just dominates that. If you're close enough, if you're within 2-3 tenths of a second on a 60-130 and one of you gets the hit, the person who gets the hit is one of you.
Speaker 3Between the M340 and the Supra and all the other platforms that it's in. There's so much more B58s out there than LF4s and there's, for that reason, so much more aftermarket. You have the amount of stuff like port and ingestion came out. What within 2 years of the B58 releasing on the GEN2 with the Supra.
Speaker 1I think Ecutech did a great job. Without Ecutech I don't think the B58 would be as far as it is.
Speaker 3I know.
Speaker 1BMW 3 and MHD exist and they're really good and there's some really fast BMW 3 and MHD cars. But if you look at the Supras, the fastest Supras consistently are always on Ecutech and it's because the port and ingestion integration is great. The custom maps are great. It really propelled the platform forward.
Speaker 3If only we could get Ecutech to work on the LF4, then I'm sure that would be amazing.
Speaker 1But even for custom maps on the VR30, man or PI on the VR30,. We can all wish for it so the best subricot this was asked by someone. What is the best subricot for the B58? I don't know if I'm qualified to enter this, man, I tuned a lot.
Speaker 3I'll tell you what I like, but I'm sure there's so many other options, so many other people, but a top mount kit.
Speaker 1The spool or the KLM top mount kit are my favorites and as far as a turbo.
Speaker 1I think a 6870 is a perfect spot for a stock motor car. Once you go a built motor, you can do whatever we have. Eddie Lowry, one of our customers he's so funny, I have built one and I clown him for it all the time. He has a built motor. He has an HP70 swap on his Gen1 B58. He's got a 240i and M240i sorry and he has a T3 flange, g35, 1050, and I'm just like bro, you're choking this turbo. You've got a built motor that can handle so much more and you crippled it. So I clown him all the time because he's like oh, why am I not faster? I'm like mod your car better don't build, he's got the mods ready to go.
Speaker 1I love you If you watch this.
Speaker 3Best is also a pretty open-ended question. So if it depends on what your constraints are, if you're looking at best bang for your buck, the big boost is a very affordable kit to perform just pretty much right there with the others. The Super ran a big boost kit for a long time and it ran for what the 4. Would you run the 489 in? Was that the big boost kit? The big boost kit ran 4.89. That was a lot of options.
Speaker 1The DAW Ultra-Flozers are good. They make good power. We did Ben's car, the Pure 50, we made good power on your car. But when it was your car, the Supra, when it was on a Pure 50, it's, I mean there's a lot of turbo kits, man, if you want the best. If you're going to spend all the money, get a KLM or a school.
Speaker 3Yeah, KLM has great fit and finish. It's a very pretty kit.
Speaker 1I know I'd use my boy, but the KLM kit is so much prettier.
Speaker 3It's also much more expensive than a school kit. Yeah, in that case you get what you pay for in the aspect of you're paying a lot for how it looks. If it's a top mount, you're showing it off at that point, but you have big boost. Best bang for your bucket at that price but, yeah, a lot of options.
Speaker 1If you're looking for a hybrid Pure 50, it would be my go-to. The DAW is right up there. The hybrids, you can't go wrong. The DAW and Pure 50, they both have good. I'm just biased because that's what I had. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's fine. Tyler shut up. Oh God, Tyler is one of my OG customer. I tuned him, I think, almost four years ago on his Q50. And now he has a Gen 1 BMW and he's got an NPR 1200 turbo on his car with a GFB. It's really an important injection. Anyway, he gets this code. It's called the 1F053C and some Gen 1 BMWs always get it where it's literally called unwanted acceleration, Like there's an acceleration monitoring stat in the car.
Speaker 1I don't know what to say. It gets mad at you when you pick up speed too quickly. It literally is acceleration monitoring. It throws the car in limp mode. It generally only happens on cars with DSC on. He has a DSC off and it keeps happening.
Speaker 3We would try to work.
Speaker 1I think it's a bug in his software. I'm going to try a different calibration idea if the last revision doesn't work.
Speaker 2So there's your answer.
Speaker 1Tyler, stop messaging me, stop asking on podcasts. Fun question why did Dongi inherit this NPR? Because I encourage everybody in the shop to make bad financial decisions. That's the short answer. So yeah, so it was mostly.
Speaker 3We built the car. I built the car for straight line. After doing ACCO we cracked the valve cover and that was kind of where I was done with it and I was like, ah, I don't really want it anymore.
Speaker 1So I replaced the valve cover. I fixed it. I got it all right but it never got over it. It was always a baby. I'm afraid it's going to happen. It was funny the amount of problems that Alex had while he had the Supra.
Speaker 3And then Chenong has had zero. None Like Chenong, so yeah.
Speaker 1The driveshaft, the carrier bearing doesn't count. You should have upgraded that a long time ago. I just need to know what the transmission. Oh, okay.
Speaker 3That's not his fault, though it's under a second. So I I was obviously building more and more into the car. After doing track days and stuff. I kind of kept building it to be a straight line car and I kind of reached a point where I was like, why am I doing this? I enjoyed tracking more. That kind of geared me to wanting to move on and that's what geared me towards the CT4. I was really wanting to just track the car, Don't care about straight line speed. So at that point I was like, oh, I want to sell it. Chodong showed an interest in it. It was nice to keep it in the race box family.
Speaker 1So that was the goal to keep because it was a fast one.
Speaker 2It's a 780 horsepower, fast, fun car.
Speaker 1It generally is one of my most exciting cars to be in for a 680.
Speaker 3That thing is dramatic. It's a very fun car. So we transferred everything over to Chodong. It's now his. I had a lot of issues with it just as we just continued building and increasing power, adding supporting mods like the valve, cover, catch can stuff like that.
Speaker 1He's still on stock manifold, still stock manifold, yeah, and then Chodong, the only issue he had was transmission.
Speaker 3It had a stage zero from Pure. Yeah, we thought it was a stage one, so we pushed this hard and we do, you know what, to Pure's credit, though that stage, considering it was a stage zero transmission it held at 750 wheel torque for a long ass time before blowing up. So, yeah, all he had to do with that transmission eventually did go and then Pure hooked it up to.
Speaker 1They were nice about getting us a stage one. Yeah, they gave us a great deal. We did a Pure stage one and then it's been flawless yeah aside from the overfill, the procedure to fill is a little bit hard, but that's on us. We got it filled right on the stage one. After that you had no issues. Yeah, he just shrugged.
Speaker 3He's always afraid Every time it goes up.
Speaker 1he's like guys, he's like tonight's the night, guys, and he just comes back. Oh, that's fine, like you've done what?
Speaker 3Like a hundred passes, Probably more, it has to be more, or even that, even when I probably had it, we did a bunch of passes. I floored it all the time. I tracked it.
Speaker 1I think he's done at least a hundred draggy passes, like the roll racing nights are like countless, like I don't know how many, how many pulls you probably do. It would be fair. They can hear me, by the way. But to be fair, I don't get races, bro. When I go on the race, nobody wants to race in front of me Like fucking super. It's so fucking tough. It's not even that fast compared to other cars. In Houston he gets bullied on because he gets picked on by the cars that are way faster than him, but nobody who's like around the same time wants to race him.
Speaker 1The second anybody gets their car died and runs like a four, like you want to race. That's a race fight.
Speaker 3They all run me out. Yeah, he barely touched a four. Now anyone's deep?
Speaker 1into the fours that are around him. They cut like a four, four, six, six, one thirty. I want to race that one. It's not even close. It's silly.
Speaker 3All right, I think that covers that one.
Speaker 1Yeah, potential FIRE DI versus PI. These are just general questions you guys ask. So I'm going to go through these Shortage or long tubes, three inch, we talked about this. When I'm just kidding again, do you get the shorties? Just get the three inch shorties. Easier install. There's not much power again on the long tubes.
Speaker 3It's easier install. As far as the brands out there, as far as from my look, the shorties are consistent. I like those. Those are very easy to tune, the good fueling. The long tubes tend to vary some more. I don't know if it's just having to fit them in different intakes, but we get better math readings on a shorty. I prefer the shorties. I think they're better the cheaper you install. They're just easier. Better intakes. So go with the shorties over the long tubes.
Speaker 1Three inch shorties.
Speaker 3In my opinion, DI versus PI.
Speaker 2If you're on, this is a depends on your needs, man, if you're trying to go.
Advantages of Injection Systems in Engines
Speaker 1This has to be geared towards a B58 because it's not VR 30. The question of DI versus PI as a whole in car technology I guess DI, di is a much better technology. The only downside is that we don't have a lot of aftermarket support for DI cars yet, so we're looking at like the Starlight 11 comes up with them. They're trying to make power. Oh, I can't make power on DI. If you look into the actual technology and the benefits of direct injection versus port injection, direct injection is just better for everything overall other than your valves.
Speaker 1Intake valves and carbon deposits.
Speaker 3But like beyond that.
Speaker 1DI is just superior technology. It's just not great for performance applications at this point in time. I'm sure as more DI aftermarket support comes out. I mean XDI on the VR 30, I think VR 30 has the most amazing DI support of any platform out there, like the fact that we can run essentially double yeah about double the OEM flow on upgraded injectors and we don't sacrifice daily drivability.
Speaker 3Yeah, but a lot of the modern ones are very good yeah.
Speaker 1I think what's cool is that DI and port injection cars like the Audi's and the new Coyotes are also. They have PI right, but a lot of the Audi's that have, and Volkswagen I guess they have the DI and PI. That's sick because you basically have extra injection. When it needs it, it's integrated into the car. It's not anything separate. That's essentially what Ecotec did with the B58. I think DI plus PI is a perfect combo.
Speaker 3Yeah, from an OEM standpoint the DI is better. It's more efficient. You get better control over what's in the combustion. It's a better system from a manufacturer standpoint. Pi then has the benefits of adding fuel whenever you need it, and then you can get the cleaning benefits. On the For better DI For better DI. So how do I otherwise?
Speaker 1have it. Yeah, and when you're daily driving it's DI. I think for a tuning standpoint, pi is way easier when we tune like VQ's and VR38's. Fueling on those cars is a joke compared to how much work you have to put into dialing injectors on VR30's.
Speaker 2But I think that's like, and not just us all tuners on the VR30 platform that are tuning upgraded injectors.
Speaker 1That's a testament to A the quality of the injectors that we're getting as aftermarket support, but also the tuning that we all do. Man. The VR30 is a unique platform, that there's a lot of really good tuners in the.
Speaker 2VR30.
Speaker 1I would like to say we're the best because I own Racebox and it's self-serving, but in general it's a nice platform. There's a lot of good options.
Speaker 3Yeah, and a lot of the new DI has been very good at keeping drivability good. I know some of the early options Definitely had some benefits here and there, and so yeah few times.
Speaker 1Well, do you know who's on the KDI injector? Yeah, those are our paint for the fair amount of drivability.
Speaker 3But yeah, now a lot of the newest ones. One of my personal favorites of the AMF Stage 2 is as far as drivability goes.
Speaker 1Those are very smooth. Four years ago I would have never imagined that I'd be sitting on a podcast saying that, but genuinely, AMF is a good job. At the stage to inject.
Speaker 3Yep, they are great.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 3But yeah, a lot of the newest latest releases on DI have improved that drivability and now they are great all around injector VR30 at least what we're talking about.
Speaker 1Any potential for trashing control tuning.
Speaker 3So what we do on the VQ is we use custom maps for trashing control the way it works? Is you're using a slip angle on? The wheel to immediately adjust ignition timing rather than having throttle closures, which is a slower to react. We can adjust ignition timing based on slip angle to provide a much faster responsive trashing control with the VR30.
Speaker 1So a normal.
Speaker 3a regular VQ in stock form, trashing control is a throttle closure. The VR30 with the Ecutech, the trashing control is a fuel cut. If we had the custom maps we could implement a ignition reduction and retard ignition timing to have more linear, more adjustable trashing control. But that would require custom maps, the same way that we do it on the VQ, which we don't have.
Speaker 1Ask Ecutech for custom maps. Ecutech, if any. Tobin Lukan, if any of you watch this, please give me custom maps. Who would change our lives?
Speaker 3Yeah, custom maps would really be the leap forward.
Speaker 1VR30. Cybex worth. Yes, they're asking if you should get an LSD or a Cybex. If you're all wheel drive, get the Cybex first. It is incredible, it's a great, it was a great add-on. You know, it was fantastic. We've seen cars go from like a 1.7.9 to like a 1.6 just from adding a Cybex.
Speaker 3Yeah, it definitely shaves off a good.1.2 out of the quarter mile out the box. We can definitely turn up launch controls. I've tuned a lot of cars but we'll down launch control and run on that verge of traction. They'll add a Cybex and we can turn it up further from there. So it definitely does help. It's great. Ams did great on the base calibration on there as well, yeah, do you need a catch?
Speaker 1can, yes, it doesn't hurt Get it.
Speaker 3It's a good addition, make sure.
Speaker 1It doesn't matter, but if you run like 5000 mileage it doesn't hurt. Get a catch can?
Speaker 3Yeah, catch can is also good. It's just make sure that you don't introduce a boost leak. Make sure everything's nice and tight and be careful on the install.
Speaker 1The last two questions are for you, do you?
Speaker 3need to answer these.
Speaker 1Yeah, you have to answer them. They're questions.
Speaker 3All right. One of the last questions is Ata. Am I pronouncing his name right?
Speaker 1I think so, ata, ata, ata Ata. Ata, ata, ata I think you should know about people. I have an excuse.
Speaker 3I have white. I'll tell you what I know, he wants to know how much we love him. He's been a great customer of ours. He asked a bunch of questions. Is anyone going to ask me questions? Happy to answer? The more knowledgeable you are on your car, the more likely you are to keep it well maintained keep it reliable and.
Speaker 1I was going to say, the more knowledgeable you are on your car, the more Alex is going to engage with you. Alex writes like essays back and forth with some customers like yeah it's nice when we have people who like actually want to engage us and ask the right questions, because then we can actually share more knowledge that way.
Speaker 3Yeah, and, like I said, the more knowledgeable you are, the better you are to be able to take care of your car, the more you'll understand what's going on, things like that. So I'm happy to answer any questions. Email me with all the questions you have, happy to answer there and happy to better that process.
Speaker 1Can they get a good night kiss from you. They're going to kiss on the mic go, should? I'm just cringing right now. Should I please remove that? Keep it. They're going to like it.
Speaker 3Alright, I think that's it right?
Speaker 1Anything else you want to talk about up here? First podcast oh, my third, but you're first.
Speaker 2I really hope the audio quality is better.
Speaker 1Please, guys, like some of you sent us like mics and stuff, and I'm sorry I didn't take your advice yet. We're just trying to make our setup work. If this still doesn't work, I'm probably just going to have one of you guys like spec out a whole setup for us, like a podcasting setup.
Speaker 3It's a work in progress. If any of y'all are audio experts, if you work in the business, let us know. We would love to figure out a lot of this.
Speaker 1If you're a local just come here, bring me products to try and I'll buy them, like that's the easiest thing. If you come here with a full setup, put it together, make me record a podcast and it's like crystal clear and crisp man, I'll just buy everything for you. I hate researching things, but every single time it's like such a rabbit hole like go find stuff.
Speaker 1Hey, ryan one of our local customers. Ryan dude, send me those mics and all that. If you want me to just call them, let me try them. Please show me how this works. Get me a mixer. Chirong sucks at all. This is Ronnie just moaning outside. No, I think it's power tools.
Speaker 3No, that was Ronnie moaning. That was it. Yeah, you can't hear it on the mics. I heard it, oh lovely.
Speaker 1Nice, it came. You guys heard Ronnie moaning. That's all the time in the shop, by the way.
Speaker 3Yeah, but yeah, I think that about covers it.
Speaker 1Now he's working with power tools.
Speaker 3That's what I heard earlier. There's always a power tool.
Speaker 1No, he moaned the front side. Okay, ronnie's moaning sound like power tools. Anyway it sounds, yeah that covers it.
Speaker 2Thanks for listening.
Speaker 1We'll come back next time with a better podcast and more, not that this was bad just.
Speaker 3We're always improving, we're learning and improving Just like our tunes. If you have comments on what you dislike on the podcast, what you think we can improve on, go ahead. Comment that it is podcast number three, so we have room to go.
Speaker 1All the problems are both Alex's fault. This.
Speaker 3Alex and.
Speaker 2Chidong. Yeah, it's Moonshirt and Chidong.
Speaker 3Hussain and Susu. They've tried to hire Alex's, so we can just blame Alex for anything.
Speaker 1It's also an easy name to spell and forge signatures and other things.
Speaker 2Yes, although then we have 12 nicknames. Ay yo, no one else who's?
Speaker 1who Ay yo Alright. Have a good night or day or whenever. Goodbye, see you next time. Good night, adios, all the best.