Racebox: Outside the Box
Join us for a look into the daily life of Racebox! Here on our Podcast we will be discussing anything from tuning, to builds, to even our own personal lives. This is a raw and unhinged look into all things Racebox!
Racebox: Outside the Box
Outside the Box: Ep 7 Thanksgiving Special Q&A
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What can you do with a green Q50 car, a flex fuel kit, and a budget-friendly mindset? We explore this question, sharing insights about the potential of stock turbo Z cars and the limitations of the VR 30 engine. We also divulge the goal for the budget build - a 10.9 or 10.8-second run. We wrap this chapter with a wait-and-see on Q50 modifications, as it needs multimedia repairs before attempting a 10-second run.
Podcast Banter and Future Plans
Speaker 1This guy likes being on podcast way too much. He's so hyper I can also be extra low. Are we recording? Are you ready?
Speaker 3Yes, okay, I don't know where to look.
Speaker 1Look at the fucking camera, I mean when you, when you can look at me and at the camera.
Speaker 2Yeah, PG.
Speaker 1What do I pay you for Exactly? I pay you to be the media guy. What is part of your job? Editing, see, don't do. What's the point if you don't have to edit. Okay, hey look, the decibel meter is actually working this time. We're talking loud, we talking loud. Oh look, I can see my decibels up there too.
Speaker 3Don't you like me, because I never. He never has to put a beep. That's not true, you cuss, I do, but not really Okay, whatever.
Speaker 1Anyway, welcome back to the podcast, guys. This is what we're gonna call a Thanksgiving special, and what's so special about it is that I literally just asked on Instagram earlier what do you guys want me to talk about? So that's. What's special about it is. This is like when I have a live and you guys ask me a lot of shit, but instead we're just gonna do it on a podcast. So I've got Mooney with me.
Speaker 3We plan these very thoroughly extremely thoroughly, not last second at all.
Speaker 1All of our media is very well thought out, including running a 60 to 130 in front of a police officer. That was, we thought a lot about that one first. Yeah, lots of planning here, guys. Anyway, what's new? Well, we didn't go to jail, so that was. That was good any. Any day that a cop pulls us over and doesn't Impound us and suspend our licenses and send us to jail is a good day.
Speaker 3So I'm not going to some wood with that one.
Speaker 1I mean charon, was kind of a puss, though he didn't want to keep going. He's, yeah, you good. I'm going back to the shop man, why don't you run more? He still hasn't. He still hasn't got me a 4-4. You know that, guys. I'm still waiting for a 4-4.
Speaker 2We did run more.
Speaker 1One, one more run. No, you let off. You're the good one spinning. Get traction arms, that get tacked. Traction arms, Taxion, whatever the weather cools off tomorrow.
Speaker 3I think Thursday is like 48.
Speaker 1Yeah dingledong is gonna run us a freaking 3, 3, 9, 9. Got it, got it, do a fat burnout and just I'm gonna eat the motor a little bit more. Get a 3, 9, 9 43 pounds. On this. What do you think? 43 pounds, 64, 66?.
Speaker 2Oh, I stopped. We have the meth kit.
Speaker 1Still, we just put the meth kit on no, yes, let's do it, let's do it, okay. Uh, what are our plans for the rest of the year? That's a good question.
Speaker 3About what?
Speaker 1a little over a month, yeah, a little over a month, with holidays the end of the year is pretty slow, um, so our plans are to sell. I mean, I'm, I don't know. You have any plans when you going, what?
Speaker 3do you mean?
Speaker 1Like got any vacations planned.
Speaker 3I have a track day.
Speaker 1All that moonshine does is he goes on track days he like randomly will send me, and then he'll forget some, and then he'll be like oh, I know it's too late to request this, but can I get it off anyway? Hey, I don't know. And then I have to do it because he's already deposited for the track it was already lost the money on it.
Speaker 3I do track days, one advance, because I buy it, because I put what about the last one? What about the last one? We forgot?
Speaker 1about this one.
Speaker 2Yeah exactly that was a track day.
Speaker 1No before that you sent me a couple where you're like oh sorry, I forgot to put this track day.
Speaker 3Are you lying? Okay, well, that's, can you?
Speaker 1put that? Can you with that tick tock sound, the why you always lying tick tock sound? Just overlay it. Why the fuck you lie, jesus, okay, um, I got a couple vacations planned.
Speaker 3I'm not really, not really Next month.
Speaker 1You just take the whole thing. I should just take the whole thing off, to be quite honest. I mean we're closed Thursday Friday, but this Thursday Friday but, um, I'm going skiing in December.
Speaker 3Where are you?
Speaker 1going Vale. I always go to Vale. It's nice. We stay on the slope, so, like the lift is right there, I don't have to walk. That's the main thing. Not having to carry skis is is fantastic, anyway. Um then, uh, I am going to India to visit my grandma. Uh, well, I'm talking to low or not? I see the decibels going smaller. It's fine. Okay, I'm going to India in January. I'll be going. I'll be going to India for like two weeks. Is it actually cool off a bit in India? No, it's still hot as shit all the time. I'm going to take my daughter to the homeland, so you can see.
Speaker 1See what it's like back in the yeah, it is bro with an infant. It's going to be tough. She's not gonna remember a single thing of it, she's not, but it's going to be interesting. So, yeah, that, that that's it, but that's next year. So end of this year is just skiing. I don't have any other anything planned. You have skiing, I have attracted and then we have work. Is that Marcus? Oh, it's Anna. Anyway, um, do you have anything cool going on? We got to get the z up and running was usually running.
Speaker 3Yeah, I mean it's running.
Speaker 1We got to get the freaking drive shaft on there. New drive shaft, new axle diff cover that shout out to z1. They send us like a bunch of goodies for the diff to fix it up, including the bushings that we should have put on the first time, bushings and collars, and the brace and the diff cover.
Speaker 1Yeah, we break stuff so you don't have to yes, that should be our new slogan race box, we break things so you don't have to. Um, including Chadong's driveline components too on the on the Supra. Um, yeah, other than that, uh, audi's got some big stuff coming. If Uh Ajay will finish up my turbo kit, it's already taken him two weeks, yeah that'll be like maybe March they're doing full frames on the s8.
Speaker 1So that'll be fun. Uh, hoping for hoping to gap Chadong in the s8. That would be really fun, that would be funny just to. Yeah, stock motor, stock motor s8, just gapping a max effort 64, 66 Supra.
Speaker 3Oh, that'll be fun. Just just a difference of a.
Budget-Friendly Q50 Performance Modifications Discussion
Speaker 1Supra versus a boat, yeah, Okay, I'll just get the jump on him and make and then I'll let off before he can reel me. Oh, my god, that's how everybody races. Speaking of which, let me address this. Everyone's like oh, why don't you run for money? Well, it's like there's random dudes Like I don't even know you and you comment on our stuff. Oh, I've been calling you out like bro. First of all, no idea who you are. So if you've been calling us out, you're not doing a good job of it. Second, even if you are calling us out, if you're calling us out for money runs, bro, like it doesn't matter, because we're not gonna do it. Because here's the thing everybody that street races sandbags. It's how it works. You're doing it for money. You're gonna lie. We don't lie, we do. We do this for a business. We post up all of our numbers so we can tell customers what to actually expect. So, no, we're not going to do money runs with any of the shop cars, unless we somehow start like doing secret projects that we're not telling you about but that'll be detrimental to my business. Why would I not tell you, guys how fast you can run with the mods that we run on our cars? So no, no money runs, sorry, go find someone else. Anyway, moving on the shop queue, old build versus new. But we talked about this. Do I have to talk about it again? Talk about it on the video.
Speaker 1Okay, so that the green Q 50 we did. It was stock turbo, stock turbo, full bolt on and actually 1062,. You know, we never, other than taking out the, the passenger seat, we didn't do any weight removal on that car. We had. We had the bucket seat in the driver's side, which is like a brahm bucket seat, and the passenger seat was removed and it would run a 1062 or whatever, right that's. The 1062 is a faster. I'm gonna pull out the back seat, okay, and the bench was like 20 pounds, so bench and that so like, but we never dropped the exhaust, we never ran open down pipes.
Speaker 3None of that full cab back for.
Speaker 1Yeah, so a big difference between that. But that was also full fueling. On that we were stock injectors but we had, uh, high pressure, low pressure pumps, all of that. This time around we're not doing anything, we're just doing a low pressure pump because you have to a flex fuel kit, you know, because we want to know what you could do it technically without. But for so we know the ethanol content.
Speaker 3And then we're doing it without a flex fuel kit because we can yeah, not for you guys, because we don't trust you guys. We can integrate safeties with the flex fuel kit and Is a better, more precise tune because it's reading actual ethanol content and not a guess where the blend is.
Speaker 1Yes, I don't want to deal with you guys. I'm like how come a fuel pressure is crashing, man? Because you overfilled ethanol, because you can't do basic fucking math?
Speaker 3That's not needed, but we will. We're gonna put a flex fuel kit onto this build as well as part of the the budget build. It is this crucial part.
Speaker 1Yes, so flex fuel kit and we're doing turn downs this time, so we're gonna have like about 70 pounds saved just from not having an exhaust on there, which is like, but it's true, because it's a budget build right. But yeah, you know, if we had ever dropped the exhaust on, the old kid probably would own like a 10, 5, a little bit less restriction, yeah we're doing turn downs perosh sent us some cool turn downs.
Speaker 1We're gonna toss those on and then, yeah, so it's just, it's very simple, it's just lower down pipes, turn downs, uh, flex fuel, uh, flex fuel kit, sorry, low pressure pump and boosted six intake intake, yeah, the three inch intakes, and we're gonna run a nine at nine, a 10 with that. We're going, but our goal is not 10, 5s here, we're going for 10, 9s, 10, 8s, right, and then maybe we'll go back to, you know, full fueling, full e, and see how deep into the 10s we can get. Um, the old cue we went from that. We went to, uh, stage C, these like beta Stage two turbos. I'm not gonna say the company, I don't want anyone to go bashing companies or anything like that we just ran some turbos that they Made too much torque. They just weren't sized properly for the car and to to get any power you have to basically yeet them. Um, and, and because of that we obviously threw a rod, because you're making like 660 wheel torque on it, on it.
Speaker 1Yeah, it was, it was fun for the short amount of time that it lasted.
Speaker 3Yes, Back to we break it so you don't have to yes.
Speaker 1So then we I built the motor in-house. Uh, and then that one failed because we had. I'm trying to remember why that one failed. Was that the poorest black, or is that the external coolant jacket leak? What was wrong with the first one?
Speaker 3Do we go straight? I thought we went straight to the, to the closed deck no, not a, not a, not an arc you. It's like two years ago people are asking us we got a, we do two or three motors, and then I know there's three motors.
Speaker 1Dude, we put three motors in that piece of shit. There was what failed on the first one.
Speaker 3Didn't one of them have an oiling issue?
Speaker 2When I first got here, when I first started working here.
Speaker 1It was alive. You drove it one of the times on a motor. Which one was it? That was the last one you saw, the last one with the external coolant jacket leak.
Speaker 2This is. This is one week. You got built by bed been yeah so the one before that it was here. I was on the engine stand when I got here, when I started working here, and no, yes that was Something I never ran. I never ran. You guys did something to it and never. So I think the one no, that's the one you ran. We did put it in we dino day and after that you were driving it logging in the street.
Speaker 1And oh yeah and it's only cool. That's not the cool. That was the last one. That was the external cool Injected after that. We didn't try again. We left it. What was that before that?
Speaker 2That was the one, and then after that, okay anyway, I can't remember.
Speaker 3I know what wasn't. I don't think you built that many. I think every time you sent it off to get built it there was a problem.
Speaker 1Block wasn't yes, that through three blocks trying to yes, good block. Yes because the blocks were trash.
Speaker 2That's what we need some blocks. Oh yeah, we need some blocks.
Speaker 3Yeah, so you really only put one. So you did. I think that's what it was. I think the engine blew originally and then you sent three blocks to get built and every single one one was bad. Finally got one. Then you did the closed deck. I know what I'm confusing with.
Speaker 1I'm confusing with the customer that we built one for the. We built it for a couple customers. One of them was sad because he he didn't put new heads on it and His previous heads had damage.
Speaker 3I guess internally right, that's what I dropped the valve right, yeah yeah, drop the valve, killed a brand new bit more.
Speaker 1That was a brand new short block. That one sucked. Yeah, anyway, we don't build motors anymore and we don't in general build VR 30s or send them out because, yeah, yeah, so anyway, we're not doing that with this one. We're gonna keep it stocked at this time around. We're gonna keep it stock until which brings us on to the next one, the AMS VR 32 big bore block that he will talk about. I can't wait for that to come out. I mean, I'm down, I'm down to buy that and toss it in the car. If they're sending, selling long blocks, I would much rather buy a built long block than buy a buy a short block. Man, like Long block that I can just boop, boop done easy.
Speaker 3Yeah, you don't want to mess with the other. Yeah, I mean the heads, all that.
Speaker 1Yeah. So our plans, budget, expected power I mean the budget for the for the 10 seconds like 4,000. We I initially said under 5, or we're gonna get it under 4, it's gonna happen. And then I think what I'll do is we're either gonna do a high-pressure pump or add a meth kit and go for 5 under 5, like 500 horsepower, under 5,000, get it. Haha, cool, we're gonna do that. And then after that we'll see where it goes. Man, maybe we'll toss on the z1 turbos, maybe we'll toss on the AMS turbos, I don't know, we'll see. We'll see what we want to do with the car, where it goes after that.
Speaker 1But the idea here is again, we break stuff, so you don't have to, but we also want to provide you guys like every here's the thing right, and I don't mean this in a bad way Q 50s are not expensive cars anymore. So a lot of our customers that come to us this is their first car they're getting into. They haven't put a lot of money into the car itself and they don't want to spend. You know, if you spent 25k on the car, you don't want to spend 20k modding it and I don't want you to spend 20k modding it, right? So we're trying to find the most cost-effective, budget-friendly performance for these cars, and the sweet spot on Q 50s, as you and I have been saying forever, is stock Turbos. Man, like full bolt-on stock turbo, these cars eat for what they are and, yeah, eat dirty and eat like I.
Speaker 1There's not really any other stock turbo six cylinder other than an S 50. Okay, so, excluding true m cars okay, true m cars, and probably are there any true AMG's that are six cylinder? No, unless you consider C 43, but those are, those are slow and they're also not. They're not, they're not truth, they're not true AMG's. But excluding, like real m cars, there is no six cylinder on a stock turbo that competes with the Q 50, q 60, vr 30, and I stand by that. You know, like I know. I mean it's don't, though right like there are some that are in the sevens, but there's also. They have a lot more mods into those to run seven, sixty to 130 than the Q 50s that run seven sixty to 130 on Stock turbo.
Speaker 2What do you want to say to this? So a lot of people, when we make that right, they want to say, hey, there's stock turbo Supra.
Stock Turbo Performance in VR30 Engines
Speaker 1It doesn't count. You talk Okay, yeah. So let me clarify a Supra doesn't count because I'm comparing Q 50s and Q 60. You want to talk about a Z, a stock turbo Z. I still don't think anyone's run. I know mark ran what six seconds? Six to 130 already. Yeah, it was like a six something on his Z. I don't know any super stock turbo without nitrous that's run a six.
Speaker 3Okay, we're even on 93, the 93 yeah, disease in the aids.
Speaker 1I don't see any super is running eight. I mean, I'm sure someone's gonna come at with one, but anyway, like, and the super still lighter than the Z, yeah, super, still lighter than the Z. This is these like 35, the super is 33 with Chidong in it, but yeah, so there, you can't compare the super and a Q 50 or Q 60. But if you compare a 340 I and M 340 I to a Q 50, q 60, which is the true comparison, or a 430, a 440 I and M 440, if they're out, those on a stock turbo without like extensive, extensive, extensive supporting mods, do not run the same times as a VR 30 on a stock turbo. Six to 130, like every, I think almost every single E 50 or higher VR 30 and a Q 50 or Q 60 that we do runs mid-eighths 60 to 130, right, assuming the driver is not like driver. We don't have a trans tuned, so it depends a lot on where the driver's shifting and and out to three locations, stuff like that.
Speaker 1Yeah, but like at sea level, they all run mid-eighths or lower.
Speaker 1I think so yeah quite a few of them are low eights, a lot are high sevens, and then we've got E 30 cars running sevens, right, a few, so very rare, but it's doable, right, and that's what we're setting out to do with this. So yeah, the sweet spot for VR 30s has always been Stock turbo, full bolt-on, right. When you start upgrading them, you really should either. Just, I mean, we do a lot of upgraded turbos. You know, we sell I think I think John was telling that we've sold the most Z1 turbos out of any of their vendors, which is cool, like clearly there's demand for it, right, and we're happy to tune these cars to 600.
Speaker 1But like you have to remember that you're not, you're no longer in competition with like a B 58 on a full frame. You know what I mean, and we kind of showed that on the last, on the last video too. But that's all we want to do. Then we'll see. We'll see what the next budget move is after that. You know, we'll see if you know, if a ms's engine program is good and it's not super expensive I don't know what they're targeting for a price, but if it's something that's doable for most people, we'll definitely toss one in and show you guys what we can do with a built block and like, once you go built block, there is so much more to do.
Speaker 3Yeah, once and once we get a built block on these cars, then then the Q50 can be a real like full-frame in competitor Like in 340 competitor, but that's because that's the last thing. Holding it back is is like for the B 50 rods in the oiling. But, the B 58. That limitations the transmission but there's plenty of upgrades and missions. The VR 30 limitation is the engine, but there are the trains. There aren't any good engine options at the moment, so once once we get there, it should be right again.
Speaker 1I mean, you know what. You've tuned quite a few built motors so far. I feel like this year has been the year of built motors with us. What do we got like? Probably 10 or 12 built motor Q50s out in the wild now.
Speaker 3But I probably.
Speaker 1Never see any of them putting down times. So what's going on, are they like? Are they running?
Speaker 3and then they just go to go away, or the people who push the most records Just push stock blocks as hard as they can, and the people who do the built blocks Seem to just build it in reliability.
Speaker 1And then I get it like you drop 20 G's into a built block, I'm gonna tap on your head, you know. Please, fine, I'll keep my hand.
Speaker 2It's very nose book. I'll keep my hand right here, Okay fuck, I think my knee anyway.
Speaker 1Anyway, I feel like they, but you drop 20 G's into a bit more like bro. Please, I don't want to boom this way.
Speaker 1Yeah, I guess that's the other thing, a lot of these built motors end up like Because it's all new, it's all experimental, right? People are and builders are finding like hey, I should have done this differently. And then the motor goes back down for a tear down and then they fix it again or whatever. They make constant changes, but I mean we have a few. I'm looking forward to seeing some real times come out of it. What's going on? That z1 built motor car out your tuning one. I don't want to mention where it is because I don't know if we're supposed to say where it is. Did they mention it on their Instagram?
Speaker 3They just didn't mention it yet. No, oh, they didn't okay. No, how's it doing?
Speaker 1has it done any pulls?
Speaker 3we haven't finished all the way on logs, all right.
Speaker 1Anyway, hopefully this, hopefully 2024, we have a lot more built motor hitters going on and maybe we can actually have a showing of like VR 30s, the built motors, built trans, you know. And the other thing is I know a lot of my og customers, like Ones that have been with me for like three, four years. They have built motor cars, built trans. They just don't run them anymore. I mean every I think it, it. I Get it because of all the shit that I went through with built motors right, mm-hmm and like. Also, I think everyone's gotten busy. I it's cool that a lot of people have like built parts brands for the VR 30 off of you know, having fast VR 30s and I think that's awesome. You know everyone. It's a growing community, so I think people are just getting busy with it, but hopefully we see more and more out of that. I'm thinking I'm Landon has like a built motor program right, like VR Kings.
Speaker 3They're open about it. We're working on it now.
Speaker 1So VR Kings like Jose and Landon, they built the whole thing out of it, right? So I think they're just busy so they don't have time to run their own cars, but they're building motors for customers, landon's.
Speaker 3We're about to get on the dyno pretty soon, so he's gonna run his. So you know he put a, he put a.
Speaker 1He put an upgraded valve trade in that he wants to. He was like yo. He's like tell Alex, I want to rev up to 8k.
Speaker 3I was like I was like hell yeah, let's do it. Fueling is more of a rotation fueling it well.
Speaker 1Fuel should actually be good at higher pms.
Speaker 3Technically, Well, the cams riding fast, the pump is happy, the injection window is sure.
Speaker 1That's true but we should also have a Low pressure. That's what we got a watch, all pressure at higher pm. But anyway, that's that's the plan for Max potential. All all of these questions, we kind of just answered them. The cost of me, the cost of making.
Speaker 3I can answer this one because I did. I was doing the math a little while.
Speaker 1It hurts making 700.
Speaker 3We were spying of your 30. If you're looking at installation, tuning parts For the full nine yards parts, you're looking at turbo like Z1 turbos, injectors, high pressure, fuel pump, full exhaust intakes, low pressure. All that all in to make 700. Wheel horsepower is looking at around 15 to 20 grand because you're looking at installation and Purchasing parts that sounds, you know did you really add up the numbers on stock block?
Speaker 2Yeah, oh, but we did that comparison. Remember Ken's color versus the Supra. Remember we're like about 20 grand invested in Ken's color versus 21k and parts only for the super true, okay, so a super to make 700 is a lot less.
Speaker 3Yeah well, it's kind of installation and all that because you turbo is expensive. You're looking at, we charge over 2000 and we're actually, you know, it's funny.
Speaker 1We have so many people like, oh, will you guys give me a discount on doing the Turbo? We are the cheapest, actual like. I'm gonna call us a brand name shop as a way of saying like we were known in the VR 30 community. We are like by far the cheapest performance shop for VR 30s in terms of Turbo swaps and I'm like I've compared prices with like our other competitors, like and no point mentioning them because you guys can look it up but like every one of our competitors who's on the same level at it as us, with like tuning you and in terms of like quantity of customers, they charge way more. And they tell me like bro, you charge too little. I'm like I don't understand. We still can't get people in the door. Like it's crazy. The shop stays busy, but y'all still, you know what we could. We could take on a lot more, but everyone doesn't want to spend for doing labor on a, you know, on the turbos and all that. Anyway, rent over. But I'm gonna, I'm gonna total this up right now really quick, okay.
Speaker 1So low pressure pump 500.
Speaker 3Flex you another 500.
Speaker 1Yeah, 500 plus. I'm 200 for a high pressure, plus 2000 for injectors, plus 3500 for turbos, plus dizzy ones over 500 for intakes were roughly taking. We're like averaging out the different ones you could buy, so we did.
Speaker 3For four frames, you're making 700, 35, though, right for I five on this all, add another five plus.
Speaker 1Let's say so you want to close one up in price to yeah, I know, but I'm keeping the old one Plus all your heat exchanger. You have to do a heat exchanger. It's like 600 plus. Exhaust so you need it. Yeah, you have no option. Well, let's just, let's say they do a turn down, so let's just do a downpipes plus a turn down, right, so a thousand bucks for that plus what else.
Speaker 3So that's fueling. We did fueling, cooling, turbo and exhaust. So they were looking at tuna installation.
Speaker 1And so 2500 for the tune if you buy ecutech, plus the tune licensing, everything right. So that's that 14 k just parts installation, if you install on top of that, and that doesn't include, like intercoolers that we recommend five bar map sensors. That doesn't include.
Speaker 3Well, my absence is $130, true, doesn't?
Speaker 1include any suspension and with tires and include what else do we do for supporting mods?
Speaker 3So you're looking at about 20k.
Speaker 1Yeah, because we would charge about six, six or seven thousand See how about 20k, see how we were right. Ken's cars got about 20k in it. So that's for 700, right, like Ken's car can make 730, but the torque is way low, right. And then if you guys watched our last video, we showed you like a stock, stock transmission Supra and like, yeah, he had a nine thousand dollar KLM kit but he could have gone with like a five thousand six thousand dollar spool kit with the 6466 as well and that.
Speaker 1So if you're like six thousand for that, two thousand for PI and and the rail plus, so if you leave stock, so we totaled up to about 12k in parts right, but the labor on all that's probably about three grand, because the turbo is easy to access.
Speaker 2You don't have to motor for so like 15 grand for a Supra.
Speaker 1That makes 750 to the wheels, 650 wheel torque has a fat power band and you're like at 750 from. The stock transmission this stock transmission. It's like the peak of stock transmission. But let's be fair, like we're doing that to the Q's too right.
Speaker 3If we were to go to 650, we, if you do, well, yeah, but we could push the same power, because we don't. We usually stop around seven, but we've done high sevens on the Z ones already with the stock block okay. So we could push, but but the power band is not there? Similar if you push 600 wheel torque okay, so fine, 600 wheel torque.
Speaker 1So you're still.
Speaker 3Pretty similar at that point.
Speaker 1Fine, fair enough. If you're saying 600 will talk, so you okay the b58. If you're really Let me put it this way If you're really pushing your luck on a stock block VR 30 and you ask us to turn it up, we go 600 wheel torque, we flat line that torque at 600. You've got great oil pressure. You got a healthy car, you do good maintenance, you got healthy turbos all of that for about 21 DK.
Speaker 1You can hear this oh my god, okay, about 21k. You're gonna be at 750, horsepower seven, 750 to 780 at 600 wheel torque and a similar power band.
Speaker 1If we kept a super at not super Saria b58 at 600 wheel torque and they were on, you know, on a stock trans, 600 wheel torque, you know, a full-frame turbo, and they'd be about $6,000, $7,000 less invested in the car, but also and, and you have to say it, they could beat the shit out of that car every day and that shit would last as long as they're not.
Speaker 3What six year? That kills. As long as I'm not sure, yeah, I'm not sure, I'm not fucking raising it to six year.
Speaker 1Yeah, I got it six years weak on ZF right, right Okay. Yeah, they'll don't last. And the motors, the most importantly, the motor is gonna last. Yeah, the VR 30s, like, we have them running, but, like all of those customers, we've given them medium boost maps because we're like, bro, please don't run this time over 700 is really pushing the limits of a stock we do it because you guys want to see those numbers and it's fun.
Speaker 1But like also we're very aware of the fact that like that's really pushing it right and like I've seen some of the pushing like 650 wheel torque on stock VR 30s and like I did that three, four years ago and I know that like the night we took that out on the street, rod said goodbye. I mean it was bad, you know, like so I I don't know.
Speaker 1That's the comparison for B58s and VR 30s. There is like, if you really get technical about it, there is that like when your stock trans stock motor, you can make the same power out of both.
Speaker 3Similar power different, limitations different limitations and there's a different. You're only gonna get so far with it, I guess is the best one of the other nice about B58 is the reality of it is that it has better aftermarket support. Yes you can already get port injection on it. Which means that if you do build a 700 horsepower V58, you can just go to the pump. Pump in 85 a VR 30, we can't, we're limited about. If you want to make 750, we're limited to E 50, unless you want to throw in methanol.
Speaker 1No, we inject our cars running E6, e 60, 70 for 750 for the not at 750.
Speaker 3Yeah 750, it starts running out, yeah so you, but you still, you still can't really just run what comes out of the pump until we get. So that's really the limitations of your 30 platform is just behind a B58 we don't have. We don't have the built motors, we don't have the built trans as well as a B58 does. And then and then port injection still in the future.
VR, Porous Blocks, and B48/B50 Engines
Speaker 1Yeah, I don't have anything to add to that. Yeah, okay, moving on, I'm tired of the VR 30 for B50. I know I asked for this with a super video, but like I had to mention it because I had the Dino graphs readily available, it's like here you go. Here is what we're talking about.
Speaker 3Yeah, they're both great platforms. They both have their.
Speaker 1Yeah, exactly Like you know, like I said, vr 30s, the, the price point for them that's perfect is stock turbo, fbo and that's really what we want to push with it right and and you know, like I think, hopefully I know Alex doesn't like this idea, but like, with once we push his e30s, that's I am gonna make that. I'm telling you guys you heard it here first I will make that an option as an OTS map with a very lengthy waiver that basically says this is on you. This is a full send map. Do your research, make sure your car is healthy, fill up good fuel. Here's the map that was on our queue when we ran tens on e30 and you guys can do with that as you wish.
Speaker 3Go the custom tuning route option.
Speaker 1OTS, it's easier. Okay, I mean people ask me this all the time because we have a Z like oh, did they change it? No, as far as we know, the blocks are the same. There's no changes that have been made, other than a few part numbers on, like Accessories and turbos it does seem to have gone better.
Speaker 3I don't hear about it as much as you won't, as I think it's just because there's not as many being sold.
Speaker 1I think the reason we don't hear about it is here. You know what? Here's a great way to pull it up. So, z's, we've only sold 1300 in the.
Speaker 3US, these just.
Speaker 1Q50 sales numbers on all show.
Speaker 3You know, I'm not talking about Q50 to Z, I'm talking about in the last, in the last like year or so, I feel like I hear porous blocks less often because all the ones have already done it. Maybe they all sort it out, but yeah, but no, it's still definitely this.
Speaker 1Look at this, look at this, Look at this, look at this, look at even it.
Speaker 3Even it's still a current issue. They are still currently.
Speaker 1I get emails okay Out of the model years. So everyone always says, oh, there's more porous blocks in the 2016 to 2018 model years. That is because in 2016 there was 44,000 Q50 sold in 2017. There was 40 41,000 Q50 sold in 2018. There was 35,000 Q50 sold. After that it's gone 25k in 2019, 16k in 2020, 13k in 2021, 4,000 in 2022.
Speaker 3Sales of plum so.
Speaker 1Yeah, if there's just a vast majority more 16, 17, 18 queues out there, and that's why there's this idea that, oh, the newer queues are more reliable. They are not, I guarantee you. Nissan still has the same casting process in the same factory, from the same place. Like it's not better, you still have just as much of a chance of a porous block. It's just that there's not as many cars out there. So, like the actual quantitative numbers are not that high.
Speaker 3Boris blocks on the order cars but we've seen.
Speaker 1We've seen 21s of porous blocks, we've seen 22s with porous blocks. It still happens. It sucks but it's just, at least as far as I know. Dealers, if it's a true porous block issue and you haven't thrown a rod or anything and you catch the porous block, your mods don't matter. They will warranty it any dealer worth their weight, because Nissan knows it's a casting defect.
Speaker 3It is harder to prove. They have made it a little harder. I'm surprised I haven't been a class action or like the what is it?
Speaker 1the nts, a nhts, whatever the, the people who put those service bulletins. They have not forced this to be like a recall issue. Like you know, it's crazy the Audi 4-0s. They've sold so few of them but they had come in comparison to this right, but they've had. They had, like the oil strainer recall. That's like a no mileage or like 150,000 mile oil strain or recall, doesn't matter, was done to your car. They have to do it. I'm surprised, nissan, and if you have not been hit by that, because it is a serious issue.
Speaker 3Yeah, this. This shows that infinity really needs to do an update to the car.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2Plum did what?
Speaker 3the they were for selling 44,000. Let's just add this up, Okay that's 18.
Speaker 1That's 34, 34 plus 25 Say 26, 34 plus come rounding up because whatever, 34 plus 26 is 60. So between 2019 to 2020 they sold 60,000 cues. Okay, and From 2016 to 2018, so four years, with the last four years of 60,000 Q50s and this is just Q50s, q6 I've plummeted way more, but 60,000 in the last Four years versus the three prior years 26, 2016, 2017, 2018 they sold 120. They sold twice as many in the first three years as they have in the last four.
Speaker 3Well yeah, in 2016 they did 44,000. In 2022 they did 4700. That's crazy. That's 90% reduction.
Speaker 1Yeah, 90% reduction. So yeah, that's that's what I have to say about porous blocks. They still exist. There's still a problem.
Speaker 1No no technical updates for the VR 30 there. It's the same there. As far as someone I would love, honestly I would love if someone reached out to me it was like actually there's been this this, this, this this been updated on the beard there because then I could confidently tell people to buy a New or VR 30. But as far as we are aware, as far as all the shops we work with are aware that have told us anyway, there are no differences on a 2016 VR 30 versus a 2022 VR 30 other than they blocked off, like one of the PCV ports.
Speaker 1They blocked off or they killed the EGT sensors, which was not a reliability standpoint. They did that for money. Egts were helpful. They got rid of EGTs.
Speaker 3There was. Is there cool? There's some cool. Is it cooling or PCV on the back that I would have?
Speaker 1I think it's a PCV no okay. I don't. It's anyway some accessory things, but nothing major that you know accounts for reliability was ever changed. So trash it's not trash, sorry, okay, I have to be nice. B48 B50.
Speaker 3I'm excited to talk about this.
Speaker 1Yes, I want someone go buy a 330 or either either a freaking f-series 330 or a G series 330 or a five series 330 From from a G's chassis or an F chassis. Please, not, I meant 530, not 330. I'm sorry, please buy one, bring it to us, give me 15k, 15k, that's it all I'm asking. I will give you a 700 horsepower, reliable four-cylinder car that will Demolish so many cars on the road and it's a four cylinder and they're so cheap used like it's such a sweet spot. I have told the guys I want to sell. I've literally said this I want to sell the Z, I want to sell the Q and dump all my money into a four-cylinder BMW just to see how far we can push that platform. But obviously I can't do that because you guys will cry that I don't have a VR 30 shop car, so I keep them around so I need to put a massive asterisk on this, on the your, your 700, 700, I'm doing it.
Speaker 1You bring me one 15k, 15k a health. Okay, let me. Let me find one asterisk has to be healthy. Give me a brick plop, that one. Bring me a healthy B48 or B46, whatever you really want to be fast, get a two liter Supra and bring.
Speaker 3yes, yes.
Speaker 1Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Bring us a two liter Supra. They're so light. Bring us a two leaders. Okay, two liter Supra and 15k 700 horsepower.
Speaker 2You can gap.
Speaker 1You don't Be fendtled because all 22 no, there was two leaders before before or a two yo two leaders before those are so sexy to Know they're not supported by ecotech yet we got to wait for that.
Speaker 2Wow yeah.
Speaker 1I don't think. All all you know what I have a computer for. What am I doing? Let's look this up. No gr Supra Wikipedia.
Supra Models and Building a Six-Cylinder Engine
Speaker 2The two. I thought they're all there. It's a new, it's not. There was no 2020, two leaders shut up, dong.
Speaker 1We're looking at it right now.
Speaker 3Yeah, but you can still get 21s that are Don't need the femto.
Speaker 1Yeah, like yours, dick, you literally drive in a 21 Supra that didn't need femto.
Speaker 2They exist based on, I believe it the is by the wrong Model year.
Speaker 1Look, look at this Triton. Come here and look at this. Model year is 2020. To present Two leaders Supra existed.
Speaker 3You're also using Wikipedia. I don't know how much I trust that.
Speaker 2No. Sorry okay, hold on. Oh my god, cuz the first year, there's no okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay.
Speaker 1Usa and other countries B46, b20 Was only in the USA ones, but it still says 2020 to present. No, they've existed. You know what? Why am I doing this? 2020 to leader Supra For sale.
Speaker 3Toss my credit card on it right now Yo we should find a salvage title one and just do a budget, a budget 700.
Speaker 1Yo, we should take it a takeovers. No no, I'm kidding. I do not endorse that. Any of you that go to takeovers, I'm sending you a boom to it, car girls, that by no.
Speaker 3I go to go sort by cylinders.
Speaker 1I need to start by distant. I gotta increase the distance so it doesn't Nationwide.
Speaker 3Right now go sort by cylinders. And engine I for okay, I see a bunch of 21s see them into 21.
Speaker 1I'm Alex, I Was gonna scream and tell you guys I retract my previous statement. There are no 2020 model year two leader Supra, as they only started in 2021. However, you can still find one pre-06 20 and you should.
Speaker 3there's 30. They're in the 30s, damn 30k, 30k.
Speaker 1Someone go drop 30k on a on a Pupra and then 15.
Speaker 3They're low miles to 27,000.
Speaker 1Hey, this is. This. Is below that the VIN. This is this tunable. No 43 is not all 36. How do you know? It's not different for two leaders.
Speaker 3Because it's a time thing. What is a different series? What is a time thing here? A time thing. I may be wrong, but I don't know.
Speaker 1I don't use. I don't want to use stop, stop that. That only counts. An ecutech that offered to make a 700 horsepower super. I'm only doing it on ecutech because I don't do port injection. You know this. I don't do port. If customers have port injection I switch them to ecutech. I don't bother when it's one have to do the motive separately. It's just, you're losing out on reliability and safety doing it that way anyway.
Speaker 1B48 or B46, that is healthy. Bring it to me and $15,000 I will give you a 700 horsepower four cylinder crank or wheel wheel. 700 wheel horse. But listen, you know why I say this. You know why I say this. Listen, 700 horsepower on a QV. We are so used to controlling torque on these goddamn VR 30s that we are like Perfectly adept to do this, because on the B48 I got to keep it under 600 wheel torque. We do that anyway.
Speaker 3Okay, so I'll make this happen. I want to see if you can really do it. I will do it. Someone bring it.
Speaker 1Please, otherwise I'm selling the Z. You know what threat if, by January 31st, none of you have brought me a four, a four cylinder BMW, not an N20, a B48 or B46 For me to do this to, I'm selling the Z and I'm doing it myself.
Speaker 2You're gonna make a $175 horsepower per cylinder to the wheel.
Speaker 3Yes, we're gonna get a four cylinder Supra instead of a.
Speaker 1Yes, okay, It'll be faster, it'll be lighter, it'll be nimbler.
Speaker 3You, still upgrade the trans it'll be more reliable.
Speaker 1No, not at 600. It's the same.
Speaker 2Trans is the same as the yeah, the exact same trans XHP on it not even Rod Sutton custom tune bro.
Speaker 3Hell yeah, nine, nine second B48, here we come.
Speaker 1I'm doing it. I'm doing it, okay, oh God. Anyway, that's my, that's my take on the b48. You can continue with the other questions.
Speaker 3Do you even know the answer to this the different b58 gins t1, t1, 2, 2, 1 to you one. I can't speak. Do I know the answer? Is that the question you're asking? Do I know the differences of the t1 and t2? Um.
Speaker 1Ha, that's why he's a vq tuner, anyway, speaking of which have you tuned? Vq 37 hrs.
Speaker 3Yes, hr is not a thing. This guy wrote hr what do you want me to say I'm reading off a?
Speaker 1freaking script.
Speaker 3Okay, it's a teleprompter. We tune a lot of vq 37. Yeah, I don't know where this idea go Okay.
Speaker 1Actually, I do say I'm not a vq tuner, so maybe that's why we do we tune vqs. We only tune ones that are worth our while, though. All right, that's the best way.
Speaker 3We will tune in pretty much Okay. But people who?
Speaker 1want people who come to us and are willing to pay our prices for an NA vq, we're fine with it, we have no problem, we'll give you a great NA tune. But the truth of it is people don't want to pay that much for NA vqs usually the boosted ones they're I like the boosted ones.
Speaker 3They're fun. You know what I?
Speaker 1hate about this, though, josh. I hope you're listening to this, josh. At driven motorsports New York, you. You know, you know he texted. You know what he asked me? He's like, oh, is Alex gonna do all the boosted vqs? And I'm like, yeah, probably because I don't have time. And he's like, okay, good, we'll send you more. What was wrong with my tune, josh? What was wrong with it? Huh, huh, you didn't like my tune. We're gonna continue. Talk about your.
Speaker 3We need to join them in in the next podcast we should. Um, yeah, the boosted vqs are great. Um, I don't know what more to add. You can make a. Ronnie texted us.
Speaker 1Well, in the in the teams sent vehicle info to tuner. Let me know next step. Next step is you wait for this podcast to finish?
Speaker 3I wonder how much dong is gonna cut out of the he should keep that part.
Speaker 1Talk about your boosted vqs.
Speaker 3Um, they are great. You don't need too many mods. The main thing that's important, uh, that I recommend if you want to just keep it really easy, setup uh, spend the money on a fuel return. Spend the money on id 1300 injectors and then from there any reputable uh uh, turbo. Why 1300s? Why not 1050s?
Speaker 1Uh, the 1300s have more capacity.
Speaker 3It's just you can just pump whatever you want E ethanol in there and never have to worry. Fair enough.
Speaker 1Same thing with the fuel return.
Speaker 3If you do a fuel return, fuel pressure will remain consistent. You never have to worry.
Speaker 1Yeah, so that's Well, hey, can you total up a cost like that? Do you have that off the top of your head?
Speaker 3It varies on the turbo kit quite a bit, but if your return is probably about you, know I have a great idea for the next video.
Speaker 1You don't be a sick youtube video. You can cut this out or you can keep it in, I don't care. We should do a video about building uh, the cost of building fast, modern six cylinders, and we can literally go through and mention all the platforms that we support. We're gonna do an honorable mention for s58s but, truthfully, like those are so expensive, yeah right.
Speaker 3We should do the cost of building nine, second, six cylinders.
Speaker 1Modern nine, second six cylinders. We should talk about that. That's a sick video we can do. Yeah, that'd be nice Set up to get probably four or five.
Speaker 3We could do the we could do. Obviously, b58 VR 30s would be a little tougher, but, yes, possible, still possible.
Speaker 2VQ 37, LF 4.
Speaker 3What else? Vq 37, LF 4.
Speaker 1VQ 37, lf, 4, s58 we can talk about. S55 we can talk about.
Speaker 3Yeah, pretty good list yeah.
Speaker 1Oh, and then the b9, the, the three leaders from Audi. Oh, yeah, yeah, the b9s.
Speaker 3Yeah, we'll do that. That's a cool one, great. I really want to b9.
TCM Tuning and Car Modifications Discussion
Speaker 1What happened? Nothing, uh, dave. Uh, so, david and and and you didn't read the question. Yeah, okay, sorry. What happened with the a3 tuners people, david and Neil came by to say hi, they're super great guys, you know, we love chatting with them. Uh, we talked about things that we can get, uh, you know, for the VR 30 platform, specifically for TCM tuning. I trust me guys, I, I put, I put it all out there for you guys. We're hoping to see some Quicker support where we can start rolling it out.
Speaker 1I did go over the definition files on on the few TCMs that are defined. It seems like there is enough tables there to make a decent good Tune file for the transmission. We just need to get more of the actual end user support, because I can't have it when you guys need to send me your cars to do TCM tunes, and it's not even that. The way it currently works is, if you're, if your car is not supported, what I have to do is I have to first read your, your ECM, right, with HP tuners, send that, wait a few days for a response. Then they'll send me, like an, a beta to test. Sometimes the beta doesn't work. I would another few days for a response and then I send that. Then I can finally read it and then like, okay, now we have to add the definitions and I wait another few days for a response. Right, all in all, to do a TCM.
Speaker 1If your car comes in, it's not supported. I need your car for two to three weeks just to get a TCM tune on it and I cannot, in good faith, have you guys send your car to me for that long, a I don't have the parking space to have your cars parked out here for that long. But be like, just wait. Wait for it to be quicker, because once it's ready it's going to be a remote boom. Send you the nice little green race box, hp tuners, dongles, you upload it with your phone and we're done. Man, it'll be the easiest thing in the world. So I'm waiting for that. I apologize to the few customers that bought from us.
Speaker 1We tried to one of the best as we could that it was a beta, so I hope they understand this isn't to do with us, uh, but you know things are coming, fingers crossed, things are coming. David, david was. You know. It sounded very promising. He said he's going to push it up the ladder. So let's see about that. And then we just talked about the other cars we work on on, you know, with hv tuners, talked about his LF for the global B platform. All that I'd love to do more. Honestly, I really like doing the American cars. It's just uh Pain in the butt to get them in.
Speaker 3Yeah, well it's.
Speaker 1It's like a race to the bottom on tune pricing with those cars.
Speaker 3The others, you with the LF for for like the global B at least, um, so if it is like a tt5 LF, for it's $1500 for the unlock. You have to put licensing on it afterwards and you have to send it to hv tuners, which their unlock process is really fast, but you gotta account for shipping there. They get it back to you about a day, maybe two days and then shipping back. So it's definitely a process. You're typically out of a car about a week. $1500 plus another $400 in credits. So and then the tune adds up.
Speaker 1It adds up quickly to tune, yeah, and you guys completed what ecutech costs, not to say that it's not a justifiable cost. I mean, hv tuner is the only one with global B support. Yeah, people should be doing it. If you want to tune your car, pay to play right like zero ones.
Speaker 3Forever have been paying like two grand for an online and, at the end of the day, that's the thing. It's. Uh, you're looking at the black wings and the.
Speaker 1The ct5s are both expensive cars and and the c8s, they're all in the c8. Actually, even the new, even the new silverados are all global B.
Speaker 3Yeah, but up until yeah. So for for the c8, the black in the black wings, you're looking at relatively expensive cars. So people that's why same thing for like the m3 is the femto unlocks people pay that money because they're already buying in on an m3 that's 60 grand or higher at the minimum. So, um, yeah, the more, the more the moral story is the more expensive you buy a car for, the more expensive it is to modify that Except for q50s.
Speaker 1They're surprisingly expensive to modify but we're changing that we're changing that with our budget build.
Speaker 1Also, for those of you waiting, here's the update on the q50. They're, honestly, if the if the climate controls were working, we would have been done a 10 second run. Right now we have the mods. It's gonna take us like four hours to put those mods on, take like an hour for us to tune it on the dyno and get it on the street, like we would have done a 10 second pass on the street for you already. We're just waiting on the multimedia. It's it's with infinity. It's being warranted because it's I got tired of chasing it. It's a 7000 mile car. It's got warranty. There's no reason that I should be chasing Clear like oem issues on this car. So I just dropped it off at the dealer. They're working on it whenever we get it back. I promise you, the day I get it back, everything drops in the shop. We're putting the mods on and we're sending it.
Speaker 3We have time, the uh, we're getting right into the best weather. Yes current today the high was 80 degrees, so we're not quite there. We'll be there soon.
Speaker 1Thanksgiving. It always gets cold every year, every year.
Speaker 3Thanks, I always got a cold, usually in the november or two about february.
Speaker 1You know that's when we started running those 10s. The early like 10, 7 runs 10. They're all. The first 10 8 we ran was on Thanksgiving, thanksgiving evening.
Speaker 3We ran it and then, close to christmas, we got the 10 6.
Speaker 2Yeah, it's not have families and stuff to do. What's that?
Speaker 1Wow, so chanong's new to this. You don't understand. When we take the shop cars out, there's not, there's no families. Chanong, you're out until we run the time. You know we used to sit out there. What would we do? We do like 50 passes in a night bro.
Speaker 2I remember seeing the, a draggy one, on my christmas or a year, uh yeah.
Speaker 3The worst was we went out. One time was like 30 degrees and I did not bring enough enough, jacket. I was in shorts.
Benefits and Recommendations for Car Tuning
Speaker 1I think I had a lightweight jacket on, I was freezing, yeah, uh, but dinos are streets and I still prefer street tuning. I think moonshine prefers street tuning. There's a few benefits it depends. So, as far as a new platform goes, I know oh yeah, oh yeah, if it's a car that I've never tuned before, or I've not tuned enough of them, or it's a new setup, like you're like, hey, I want to test out this turbo kit, man Get it on the goddamn dyno.
Speaker 2Get it on a dyno that is calibrated.
Speaker 1The biggest pet peeve I have is you guys find the cheapest dyno operator in town. It's some clapped out dyno that doesn't. It doesn't load up properly, it doesn't read properly. At that point those figures are worthless to us because if we are on a stock block and we're trying to maintain it at a safe power level, If the dyno reads low it's worthless and if it reads high you're leaving power on the table.
Speaker 1So yeah, dyno, dyno jets dyno's are great for or or properly calibrated mainline and dyno packs, but I prefer mainlines dyno's are great for new cars or when you have a limitation like torque limitation, stuff like that.
Speaker 3Otherwise, with a platform we're familiar with, obviously, like VR 30s, street tuning all day long is the best option. And even then, if you have a high horsepower car like a z1 turbo and you want to limit torque, keep it nice, safe, we need to do dyno tuning and then follow up with some street tuning.
Speaker 3So even at that point, always straight to the street tune is always there, dyno is is usually like the half optional choice. So if you really compare them, I'd say a street tuning is better, but they're, they're, they're different and the same at the same time.
Speaker 1Yes, facts, but I prefer street tunes. So the other thing, the other, the other thing about the street tuning that's good, is in the process of street tuning, you are learning your car. The worst thing is when we, when we hand off a car to a customer, you know, a lot of times on you like, oh Well, what about that car? You dyno, where's the numbers? People don't, they're not ready for the power. We're like doubling or tripling in some cases, the power that these cars make from factory. When you come in and you take it out like you are not ready for that car. It's just plain and simple. You're not right and it's. I'm not. I don't mean that in a bad way either. It takes a while to like. Look at Chodong. He's done probably like 300 passes in his Supra. I turned it up 30 horsepower and he's like bro, let me learn this. He's got to learn. Yeah, you just have to learn. And yeah, sure, it'll take him a couple passes, but think about what that's 30 horsepower? Think well, when we're going from 300 to freaking 780. Right, you just got to give the people time and and a lot of owners are not ready for that commitment to I think a lot of people think they're gonna buy, they're gonna put these mods on the car, they're gonna make this power and all of a sudden they're gonna run crazy times.
Speaker 1No, there is so much work that goes into it. You know it's funny. I would always tell me Kyle too, when he was running back in the day. All his times I'd be like, bro, don't sell yourself short. Like a lot of that is you learning to drive your car? And like, I think only people that have done fast cars like that really understand what it takes. Right, the driver I know everyone's like always an automatic. What driver mod is there? But there is. You have to know, you have to know how to drive the car and launch it and all of that Mm-hmm. So yeah, street tuning helps with that. You get, you get, you can. You can learn your car as the power slowly increases.
Speaker 3And we end the benefit, the best benefit of street tuning is real world Uh logs, real world data as well as uh. You capture more of it when you're on a dyno. All we get is just the wide open portion. A lot of times, people send a little bit more than just that, and I and, of course, I look at the, the entire log, and so I make sure that if you give me a little bit extra, I'm going to Review it and make sure everything is good. So, yeah, you, you, you get better data from a street tune than a dyno tune. Um, the only time a dyno tune is beneficial is new vehicle or or whenever you're limiting power, and then street tuning is always on top of that as well.
Speaker 1Yes, recommended wheel and tire combos. I assume this is in reference to q 50s and q 60s. I want to add it on this one. Okay, let me finish mine. First go white sport, tc one of 5x. It's what I've run forever. They're 17 pounds. Okay, 18 by 10. So it's a nice big wheel. They look good. 17 pounds, 17 pounds, it's fine. New one, that's better and okay. Okay, rpf ones are good, but the I think these were lighter than RPF ones. Literally I did my research. So TC one of 5x was the lightest wheel that I could find with proper off-the-shelf fitment for a Q50 250. When I was doing this I remember I searched forever. So my recommendation for every single Q50 owner out there TC 105. Does apex make wheels for Q50s yet? 5 by 1 on 4, if apex makes wheels.
Speaker 3Look at apex they made for the Mustang, because Mustangs are who stings.
Speaker 1Yeah. So apex, make some light wheels. But otherwise, if you want to say JDM, wedsport, tc one of 5x, hit up my boy Gavin at OSS motorsports. He's the one hooked it up with me for a long time ago. Also, shout out to Mark Dorman at Mod Bargains. He helped me without a long time ago too. He's not a mark. I think he's at CTS now. Don't look at me, you don't even know him or see it CSF, he's at one of the C anyway. Mark was cool anyway. Tc one of 5x for a Q50, q60, use spacers. I don't know Q a Q50, use this setup. Tc one of 5x in the rear. It's 18 by 10 plus 38. In the front it's not 18 by 9 and a half plus 25. It's fantastic. You can run at 245 or 255, 40 up, 255, 45 up front and a 285, 40 in the rear. Michelin Pilot Sport 4s that's all you need. It's perfect. It will hook For all-wheel drive cars, for real drive cars. Get a drag pack. You can talk about the rest.
Speaker 3Actually, you covered exactly what I want, because I want to talk about drive pack.
Speaker 3So for drag pack if you're under about 650, we horsepower stick to a 26 that's gonna be a 275 40 17 if you're over 650 and real drive than a 28, which is a 305 45 17 For all-wheel drive, regardless of power. Maybe it not if you're like over 750, but majority of all wheel drive stick to a 26 inch. In the rear, et Street are usually the tire recommendation. So 275 40 17 and then up front you can do a 275 35 18 In like a ps4 s some some sort of summer tire and that will be a good all-wheel drive setup for a drag pack.
Speaker 2That's big wheels, up front to 7535.
Speaker 3That's not that wide on 18, it's a small. It's smaller than stock diameter though, so I wouldn't recommend always daily driving on that well, to drag pack anyways. So Because it is it is, I believe stock is a is around as close to a 27, and this would be a 26 inch tire, so it would be smaller diameter than stock. So your speedometer is gonna read high.
Speaker 2And you will brand recommendations. Do you like it like? Do you like one over the other ways? Drag racing to coffee.
Speaker 3What do you mean? We will brands, like for the wheels, yeah, it doesn't really matter. To me it's it's the sizing that matters. And then the tire. So tire, brent tires, I can say ET Street, ours or some of the best ones you're gonna get. So usually that's what I recommend. And then and then, yeah, just the 26 or 28, depending on power. Most people, mostly out there, stick to a 26, even though I know you all want to go 28 for the looks. It looks cool. Performance wise, you generally perform better on a 26 especially stock turbo.
Speaker 1I mean that that hurt us. No, we talked about even on the first seat. We talked about when we had the 26. It was cutting better 60 Foot. That night we went out we did like three passes and it did better and you can see it on trap.
Speaker 3Yeah with a Z of that weight, we should trap over 130 and we're not.
Speaker 1Yeah, we should put a smaller one back on. Oh it's.
Speaker 2Didn't. Oh no, I have.
Speaker 1oh no, I know where those went, oh no that's so sad. That's a brand new DR2 that we just God. You're fall, she's gonna be some Honda wheels to put on.
Speaker 3I don't have tires but I have a. I have a 4-star I-14s in a In drag pack size. There's new tires. You can go 26 on that we could do 26 on that.
Speaker 1That's a good idea.
Speaker 3But it's, oh, it's not Z spec.
Speaker 1What is it?
Speaker 3Oh Q50 spec.
Speaker 2Yeah, put some spacers on it, bro, put some spacers on put 20 mil space doesn't last time in the rear for testing and it was still not good fit.
Speaker 3Do we have? We don't why we don't have any Z spec besides those I mean.
Speaker 1I think, I think our the, the clout wheels we made are like negative offset those. That's how, that's how wide the fenders are in the rear that you can own a negative offset.
Speaker 3Yeah, those are 18 yeah no, they're 19, 19.
Speaker 1Okay, let's wrap this up, because how long are? We were pretty deep. Yeah, it is really a special episode. We want longer than usual for you guys.
Speaker 1How to dial in suspension. Okay, I'm not an expert on this I don't think any of us here are experts on this but I will tell you this you want you want more travel in the back, less travel in the front. You want it to be soft in the rear in terms of damping and all that right. So you want to set your coil over the whole bit of soft. You want your camber. So, with your arms and everything you want it to be. There's more you can do, but as far as camber goes, you want camera to be straight or a little bit positive, so that when you squat it goes straight. Any negative camber you're losing Contact patch and you're gonna be slower. I'm not sorry, you're gonna spin. You're not gonna get as much hook as you want.
Speaker 3This is drag alignment.
Speaker 1This is drag alignment For road of course thing and shit. You want camber but I don't know. I I can't tell you more. You want to dial in suspension man? Go to a shop that knows what they're doing Out here. Texas Tires and Parts Rudy. He's helped us a lot with drag alignments. He does it a lot for the shop Houston.
Speaker 3They do all their GTRs with them With most coil over setups, most like general street setups. You just want to go as soft as you can on the dampening, yeah, and then give it, and then just make sure your ride height is it's not gonna rub Um yes, don't be too low.
Speaker 1Have travel chidon, chidon, super. Actually one of the reasons that it probably doesn't hook as well as it's too low on the lowering springs. He needs to raise it up and he could probably get more because you have more travel to absorb it.
Speaker 3And but also with his car, because we don't have the arms raising it up or also zero camber. Yeah, so yeah, that's because he camber and then soften as much as you can on the stock setups.
Speaker 1If you're changing springs, you can go too soft, so you want to be careful about that at that point, then you want to go, which is actually this is why a lot of cars that are stock ride height tend to launch better than a lot of you guys on Coilovers and stuff. Because a lot of you guys on code did it for looks like I get it Coilo, you do. People do coilovers for looks, but the general use do that you have to understand that you're stiff, or especially when you're lower, so keep that in mind. Weight saving tips Going to diet.
Speaker 3Coming from you.
Speaker 1Okay, but weight saving tips, light wheels and tires make a huge difference. To be sort like Wheels and tires and two-piece rotors are way better than gutting your interior. I'll be honest the unsprung weight that you're getting You're reducing with that is Way more effective at reducing your times than gutting your interior.
Speaker 3A cost effectiveness it doesn't cost anything to get your interior that's two-piece rotors are fairly expensive, so.
Speaker 1Yeah, I mean on a Q-man. Really, your biggest weight that you're gonna take out is the passenger seat, the driver seat, replaced with a bucket. That's a good. If you take the passenger driver out, those are about 140 pounds together, yeah that's quite a bit so take those out. Put a bucket seat in. Take out the rear bench Beyond that it's like minimal, which you know. Take out the sound bending in the trunk and the spare tire.
Speaker 3If you know, the next biggest thing is gonna be cat back. If you remove the cat back, yeah, drop you out, dump it and you'll be good.
Discussion on Alex's Tuning Skills
Speaker 1And then after that, wheels, tires, all that stuff. Yeah, how much you're saying loves Cal? Haha, yeah, what happened with that so Cal? What up with your? Oh, come to so Cal, so, come to so Cal. We're already, I said 12 cars. You got like five. Where yet? I'll come out when you guys get the cars. I don't hate you, I'll still come, but we're gonna take our time and make sure that you guys are committed and we get everybody. I'm ignoring this next question, so I'm gonna try to start shit. Why is Alex the best tuner and Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah in comparison to other shops? We will not answer that, but I'll tell you why Alex is a good tuner and I'm gonna. I'm gonna go on this. Actually, this Guy has been tuning with me for three years. Alex started working for me in January 2021.
Speaker 3Right, that's what started. Was it 21? Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was 21.
Speaker 1Yeah, January 2021. Alex started tuning for two. I'm not tuning working for me in 2021. You started tuning in 21 very talented December technically.
Speaker 1Okay. So to give you an idea of timelines here, I started tuning my Q50 in. Oh, I see the decibels on the screen too. That's bad. Okay, I started to my Q my Q50, my old red sport in September 2019. That was technically August is when I got the ecutech kit and all that. I Attuned my first customer, george Brummel. Still love you, george, hope you're doing well. I don't know if you tune into this, but I hope all is good for you, george. I tuned in October and then I brought Alex on around December or January. No, you came to work for me after. It was like the shipping itself.
Speaker 3Alex was like my yeah, I started it, he's like my errand boy for like a year.
Speaker 1Okay, the poor guy would. He would enter Instagram messages and ship from, yet I'd leave like FedEx packing stuff at his house. Be like, here's all the FedEx stuff and I just leave the kids and he would have to ship it out. He'd register the dongles and all of that.
Speaker 3That was from about. That was like about August 2020, through kind of an end, so you started that next.
Speaker 1August. Yeah, okay, so it was a year after we first met that you started doing this for me. Yeah, that's when business had picked up enough for me that I'm like okay, so I re. So, okay, that was September 2019. I was a MW tuning. Okay, I rebranded in May. In May 2020, in August 2020.
Speaker 1Before I can, yeah, in August 2020, moonshine started working for me and then, by January 2021, he started tuning. I started teaching me, and let me give you an idea when I say Alex started tuning for me and I taught him. Alex spent three months Every day. He would come to my house. He'd sit there, watch me tune, ask me questions, learn from me. Also, he watched me play no man sky and get me lunch and I had a lot of other shit. But you know, it was a good time and I missed that apartment in downtown. It was covered. There's no traffic, so it was fun. It's nice, um, and we had a nice view of downtown. He was in. Anyway. Alex literally spent a F***ing a lot of time learning how to tune for me and then, since then, alex himself has tuned 1200 cars, at least a thousand, over a thousand sure to give you an idea, alex has tuned a thousand VR 30s at least.
Speaker 1We've totally tuned about 1600 VR 30s. So Alex has done more VR 30s in me because we were.
Speaker 3I think we're probably over 700 by now. Are you serious? I think so, maybe.
Speaker 1I don't know, I don't, I don't, I don't check anymore, but anyway, alex has by far done more VR 30s in me and he. So think about it this way he knows everything, I know, he learned everything I knew. I Made the base maps for him, right. So for those of you that still, to this day, have like some kind of weird feeling what one Alex tunes you like, a, it's just rude. First of all, like the guy knows what he's doing. He's one of the best tuners on this platform. You guys need to like understand the fact that if he's representing race box, he is representing me.
Speaker 1I would never let Alex tune cars if I didn't think he could do it to the standard that I tune at, and We've talked about this before. As far as fueling goes, like, if you ever pay attention to fuel terms, look at a car that's tuned by me the fuel trims and look at the fuel trims on a cartoon by Alex. It's not, it doesn't affect performance really, but it gives you an idea of how precise and how perfect he tunes every single car. He gets his fuel trims within like 5% on every single car, unless there's like a problem with, you know, the intake or the injectors of the fuel pumps. I don't know any other tuner that gets that close.
Speaker 3To be quite honest, so the only thing I'd like to add is is like it's not I don't, just I didn't. It's not like I just learned everything when you do and I just copy what you've taught me.
Speaker 1No, he's improved upon it. He comes to me. He's like hey man, what do you think about this change?
Speaker 3Yeah, so we both have backgrounds in engineering, so I mean, I'm a better school, but that's. There's. Yeah, so we talk often about and in that in the last three years We've we've progressed these tunes a lot more from where they were back then. So, yeah, we constantly talk about it and we and we try things and we're like, hey, this worked, and then we'll kind of both attack it and and see how we can further advance the tuning platform.
Speaker 1Yes, facts rent over, so he is the bus tuner, you're right.
Speaker 2Only for the VR 30s, though he sucks at everything else.
Speaker 3I'm gonna save it, but except that little bit there, just that cut it, cut it, did you guys?
Speaker 1did you guys watch the last video and see the sign? We keep up behind Alex's head.
Speaker 3No, we don't need to mention that go back to the video.
Speaker 1Go, go do show, alex. I want y'all to see. The super video. No it was a super video when, when you took a, oh, it was the Q50 video. The Q50 video when we reintroduced the clapped Q. You know, you know, you know, the VR zady plate. I'm gonna retire this plate. I'm gonna clap to Q as a, as a or just clapped as a license plate.
Speaker 1Get three of the fastest RB VR owners together on the web called. That'd be cool. We could do that. I don't know who the fastest are, but we can do that.
Speaker 1If you think you're the fastest, hop in, yeah, send us your application, but I see if you want to get on this podcast. Yeah, how's the Z cooking? You can see it up there. We are waiting for the driveshaft and axle to come in and we already have the Z1 stuff. They ship that real quick. Also, z1 is fantastic on shipping. Shout out to them. I don't know another company that gets it out that quick, but anyway, we're waiting. When I get that, it goes on and Chirang goes and does street hits In Mexico. Yeah, we go across the border, we go drive down to Brownsville where we bought our first Z and then we hop the border.
Speaker 1Not hop. We legally cross the border and then we legally cross back after racing in Mexico. Anyway, that's it. Thank you for tuning in to our Thanksgiving special and a special thank you to all of you for making race box what it is, even though most of you are a giant pain in my ass.
Speaker 3That was rude. Um, I don't know, I don't say that much, can I? Can I in this with the cut?
Speaker 1No, he doesn't let me do that when I try, All right just walk away.
Speaker 2Yeah, we have to walk away.
Speaker 1Oh yeah, I come make it wet.
Speaker 3I can kiss the mic. No, don't kiss the mic, that's gross.
Speaker 1That's what you just I did it. I got close to it.
Speaker 2No bye.