As Men Thinketh
James has conversations with people in his life, on how to be better, what they are doing. And different random things.
As Men Thinketh
#7 Aaron Barlow :Parenthood, Growth, and Genuine Connections
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
What if the key to profound personal growth is hidden in the ordinary commitments we make every day? Join us as we explore the transformative journey of being "all in" on marriage and parenthood. We share the wisdom gleaned from becoming grandparents and the invaluable lessons these roles impart. Discover how the challenges of raising children can be the ultimate catalysts for personal development, pushing us to transcend our limitations and embrace a life devoted to something greater than ourselves.
Nature and spirituality form the backdrop of our next exploration, as we unravel the threads connecting personal beliefs and organized religion. With anecdotes from travels to breathtaking natural wonders and serene temples, we ponder the essence of spirituality beyond traditional structures. We discuss the courage it takes to question deeply held beliefs and how this introspection can lead to personal enlightenment. Navigating faith without confines, we emphasize the importance of nurturing genuine spiritual connections and a community that reflects our evolving beliefs.
Lastly, we shift our focus to the art of communication and relationship-building in a world dominated by consumerism. By prioritizing love and integrity over material gains, we reveal how fostering open dialogue and embracing mentorship can lead to lasting success. Through personal anecdotes, we illustrate the transformative power of active listening and truthful expression, whether in business or personal contexts. As we reflect on parenting, we celebrate the nurturing of social skills in young children, preparing them for a confident future. Join us for this enriching conversation, where every relationship is a stepping stone to a fulfilling life.
The Value of Life and Growth
Speaker 1It's kind of cool to sit down with you . Like you said , we've had a lot of conversations .
Speaker 1We've had many , and it's kind of fun for me because I get to talk to somebody that's so much older than me . I mean , you're not quite 30 years older than me , but you're almost . You're almost double my age and I get to talk to somebody that's double my age . That not that your answers are not rooted only in a certain religious ideology right , I appreciate it , like I . I like the religious , but sometimes it's nice to see another side of it . And also it's uh , you've had a , you're relative , you're successful in life , not just in business or finances , which you are but your marriage seems healthy , your kids , kids come home . I mean overall , right .
Speaker 1So the question is is like what , what do you think is the most valuable ? It's a two part . What do you think the most valuable thing you could do with your life is today ? And then to somebody that's around my age , what's the most valuable thing that we could do with our life generically ? Like I said , it's kind most valuable thing that we could do with our life Generically . Like I said , it's kind of a generic question . Might not even be a good question to ask .
Speaker 2It's not a generic question and it's a great question . It really is , because it's a lot of what I have been faced with of late , because we've just become grandparents , parents , and it is truly a turning of the page in every way , um , and a continuation of the the having of our own children , to see your kids turn the page too , and in so many ways they are starting their life , you know . So I really believe that probably the most . Well , let me rephrase that . Well , let me rephrase that . But I have felt a very big void in the grandparenting , in my life .
Speaker 2My life and I've had . I've had more than my kids have or my wife has . But the loss I feel Is the wisdom that is lost Because we're too busy , we're too , you know , due to cultural things or for whatever reason . That is not a priority and I have promised myself that I will make it a priority because I think it is a very real weakness in our families and our culture . Well , you know , you're married , a couple , little kids . I would say , number one , make sure you're all in . You're all in , because it's what it's going to take , what does that specifically mean ?
Speaker 2Well , to me it was . It's just heart and soul . It's I dedicated myself to provide , to be the best person I could be , as to being a husband , a father , you know , and it was , it's rudimentary in the beginning . It has to be because you don't know what you don't know . You know , and I remember there was a lot of stumbling in the dark , you know , doing stupid things that you wouldn't do again , but through it all you wouldn't do again , but through it all .
Speaker 2And my wife has expressed this . She says I knew you were all in and that made up for so much For inexperience , for ignorance , for just personal flaws . And I just feel like that there's a humility that comes with it that allows you to learn and grow in that relationship , the relationship with your kids , because they're all different , they're all individuals , and so , yeah , I'm always trying to encourage young men , mostly young women as well get some skin in the game as quick as you can , get some skin in the game as quick as you can , because that if you have skin in the game , it doesn't allow you to be the critic . You have to be in the arena , you know , because it is so easy to be that casual critic , you know to I call it drive by judgment , and you just throw a bomb out there and there's no consequence , you know but ? But when you're working at it , that's when it gets good . And good doesn't mean easy .
Speaker 1No .
Speaker 2I'll agree Rarely if ever .
Speaker 1No , the older I get , the more and more I think that good doesn't equal easy . So I mean you kind of outlined a little bit of have some sort of responsibility of something that means more than just you Right , something that you would sacrifice for yes . So besides just the skin in the game , what to like some of the single people ? Why get married ? Why have kids ? Like , I have my reasons , but right , yeah .
Speaker 1I mean cause honestly it's . It's a ton of work . You bet I mean having kids is a ton of work From when they're very , very small . You've got an infant child . That just requires a massive amount of sacrifice , work . It takes a toll on your relationships , it takes a toll on your health , your mental health , every aspect of your life . You're going to have to sacrifice and not necessarily is it worth it , but why ?
Speaker 2Well , I think that you brought up first the commitment of marriage is a commitment to service to one another , but it's always open-ended .
Speaker 1Ultimately , ultimately , it is what do you mean by open-ended ?
Speaker 2Well , society allows you a way out , but when you have a child , there's no way out . You are responsible for that life . It is service , it is 100% service and it is like you say it requires you to draw on something better than you To do it well , because you don't know , and that's what my kids remind me of constantly , because of the fluid nature of humanity , it's changing . I don't know , I don't know , I don't know . Truth is a multifaceted thing and perspective is everything . And when you're willing to move through humility , through learning , gratitude , all of these things we talk about all the time , the scenery changes , and that's a good thing because your perspective is changing . There's the growth , but it requires you to have eyes to see . You've got to be willing to look at it and it's intimidating at times and just downright scares you to death sometimes .
Speaker 1The being scared , though , is actually , I I mean kind of important . I agree , lately I've been , uh , talking to a few other people , but to to do things that terrify you , I mean it's uncomfortable , wildly , and it could just be something like , um , doing a new job for somebody Like . I've had a couple of jobs that have flown through for me . That are things I'm not used to , and it's terrifying . All you want to do is run . But one of the cool things that with being terrified and pushing through something that you don't want to push through on is there's your brain . Your body literally creates I don't know the real word , but it's like your DNA changes . It's not your DNA , but something in your body changes . Yes , right , I mean , I know your brain grows . There's a certain part of your brain that grows , um , but you're gonna become stronger . I mean a lot like working out , just getting muscles . I mean same same , it's the same same . But why do we run from it ?
Speaker 2I mean , I'm sure there's a myriad of reasons , but Well , like you say , it's uncomfortable , it is uncomfortable , it's uncomfortable . Yeah , and we just have that . We like the rut , even if it's not a good rut . We like the rut , it's predictable and that's , that's what you're feeling , that's what makes you , you know , shake inside when you're doing a podcast and you've never done it , and you're just a little bit unnerved , yeah .
Speaker 1And yeah , until you realize . I mean something like this is just a conversation , it is . It's a little weird with headphones on . Well , it's a little weird because you know other people are going to listen to it maybe .
Speaker 1Well , at least one , you can always count on your wife . No , I've just been . I've uh , as of , I mean , I've had a few conversations with people and , if I can , I feel like I'm having a lot of pauses cause I'm having a hard time getting my brain to work . But this fear of like we can't grow right and we can't progress in life . You can't create good fruit , you can't move forward , you're very stagnant . And it might be comfortable , although in the future , down the road , it's going to be even worse for you than it is . Uh , then the growth would require you to move , but move .
Speaker 2But well , I'm not quite sure where I'm going to go with that , because the movement is crucial because you know , with your working out atrophy , you don't do it , it don't work , you can't build , you're not . I mean in that I don't know . I have going back to family , having a family , you know building and doing and all of that . It's such a basic building block of life . It is so foundational . And I get there's some people that can't have kids and there's circumstances , and I get that . I'm not putting anybody down or discounting anybody that has their specific circumstances , but it just speaks to why we're here . In the most basic way . It gives you such a fundamental why . You know you're always looking for that noble why and it is the greatest teachers you'll ever have and it is , I mean , as time goes on . I mean I am just so full of gratitude for the things I've been blessed with . As to my relationships , you know , and I reference my family a lot because I'm with them . You know and I'm with them a lot .
Speaker 2But I always think of that scripture when Jesus is with the Pharisees , when Jesus is with the Pharisees and they said we're the sons of Abraham , we're special . And Jesus said of these stones could God make sons unto Abraham . And I felt that way in my own life , in that I've been blessed with so many brothers and sisters that are not of my blood per se and it's just like it's . I've just found them everywhere I've gone and they have just blessed my life , I mean in the richness and perspective and the challenge that it brings . It challenges your beliefs , you know .
Speaker 2I mean I've met people that have come from Iran , from Lebanon , from trying to think just in our travels and different things and other means of communication , and it's the different cultures just stretch your beliefs and you realize well , these people are trying just as hard as you are to be good , decent people , good husbands , fathers , parents . You know , and it's just , I think that's a lot of the value that I find in travel is that it gets you very much out of your comfort zone . You know , and it's just , I think that's a lot of the value that I find in travel Is that it gets you very much out of your comfort zone and in contact with other people , it's good .
Speaker 1You guys see a bunch of whole different perspectives .
Speaker 2Yes .
Speaker 1Which goes back to what you were saying before , which is quite valuable .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , when we travel , we usually try and go to a cathedral , a temple , just their holy places , because that's where you get to see the local people being very real .
Speaker 2When we went to Thailand , we found ourselves in a Buddhist temple , you know , and we had actually hired a guide and told her that we kind of wanted to have that experience and understand more fully what made it holy to them , and so she walked us through that day and it was very eye-opening . I mean , it's as important to them as any of us with our traditions Same , you know . And it's just like I just look at it and I say God is good , and where I see good , I see God . And that really , really broadens my perspective and it keeps me . It keeps me out of that capital J judgment , because I understand that you do have to have lowercase g judgment every day , all day long . We have to judge . That's what we're doing every day all day long . Should I or shouldn't I ? You're choosing . And so I think that's what getting uncomfortable does for me is it provides me with perspective and a large dose of humility .
Speaker 1What kind of stuff did they do in that temple or that they , I guess the tour guide kind of showed you ?
Speaker 2Everybody takes their shoes off before they go into the temple proper . They ask you to be quiet . Um , oh , I'm . I'm trying to remember , because she was explaining a lot of things to us , nuance , as we went through it . But I mean you , you have the priest , you know , and he has holy water . Strangely enough seems like everybody has it Weird .
Speaker 2Maybe they compared notes , I don't know , you know , and he would take some reeds and you would be you'd kneel to pray and then they'd just they'd kind of sprinkle it on you . You'd kneel to pray and then they just they'd kind of sprinkle it on you , you know , and it was just , it's just so to me , um , um humbling to just consider , to just stop and consider . It's the same thing . We were in , had the opportunity to go to St Peter's Basilica and you're just wow , it's unbelievable . You know , and it's like I told somebody today .
Speaker 2I says it's good to go to those places because it's really inspiring and useful to me to consider big things from time to time , because it's really easy for you to get consumed by small things . You know , to be in such a historical place , to be awed by something and to just take it in . Think about the artisans that put the probably millions of hours that went into these things , think about their sacrifice . You think about , because it's really easy to get lost in what it is today and the leadership and all of that sort of stuff and go oh , it's just , oh , it's awful , it's just it's like no no , no , that is not how I choose to look at it , you know , and it's just .
Speaker 2Think of all the individuals . I mean we were in the Coliseum , same thing . Think of all the individuals . I mean we were in the Coliseum , same thing . They set an average of 50,000 slaves at any given time , was working on that for eight years , and you just , you're standing there where they stood , you know , and so it's .
Exploring Belief and Practice
Speaker 2I really appreciate that , you know , and I feel it too . I feel that too , like when I go to Zion's or Arches or , and it's just , it's to me , it's just oh , somewhere it was just talk about a religious experience was the Redwoods . Really , I mean , I felt like I was literally in the presence of four , five , six hundred year old patriarchs . I mean , my heart was , my soul was singing and I just wandered around those groves and it was just absolutely awe-inspiring . My little sister would say it's magical . I mean , it truly was , you know , and it's not just oh , they were here at this point in history . Oh , they were . No , they are a living thing . They've been here , they've had experience I have a real affinity for trees and plants growing things too .
Speaker 2But I mean I I talk to my trees , so I think it means something . I do call me weird .
Speaker 1I think it has value . Oh yeah , so back to your Call me weird .
Speaker 2I think it has value .
Speaker 1Oh yeah , so back to your temple in Thailand . One thing that caught my attention was they made you take your shoes off . Why did why for one on that ? And then what's their ? Purpose of sprinkling the holy water on you as you're kneeling to pray , or did they ?
Speaker 2not dive into that . The shoes , it was a respect thing . It was absolutely a respect . Most of the locals had no socks on either , and I think it's also a grounding which makes sense . Um , and the the holy water was . It was just very similar to . It was a blessing it's a blessing .
Speaker 2It's basically an extension of god through the water being blessed and all of that sort of thing . You know , and a lot of their concepts are . They're just different . It's Eastern , it's not Western , and so it's it . A lot of it doesn't compute really easily with with how we believe , but um interesting nonetheless .
Speaker 1So I've been over to Europe too , but not near as much as you . But one thing that I noticed when I was over there was , again , how many cathedrals , how many places . So trying to think of the right way to word this , but all throughout history that's been a big thing the religious , having some sort of religion to where people can tie to . Why do you think that Like ? I mean , that's not even a very good question . That's like , what's the importance of it For people to have that like ? Like I get worshiping God , but like , like , is it necessary ? Is it something you can do on your own ? Is there a community aspect to it ?
Speaker 2That's a loaded question . Yes , I think it's very necessary . What I'm not so sure on is format , because I don't know I've done the organized religion . I was all in . I was all in , I was all in and the , the organizational part , failed me , the beliefs not necessarily .
Speaker 2It's like I was asked the other day , where do you stand , what do you believe ? And I was like , yeah , you know , I get it . I'm an anomaly in some ways . And I told the person , I said , give me a minute to think about that . I haven't been asked that for some time . And I said I think I'm a fundamentalist , fundamentalist . I said I've just peeled the onion back for the new half .
Speaker 2I said because I tend to go back to the teachings of Jesus , the Sermon on the Mount , the parables , the foundational stories that brought christianity , brought , I should say , the judeo-christian tradition brought forward , and it's been the conduit for those values to come through to the west , through to the West . And I just find myself going back in a very foundational way because my troubles or my difficulties with organized religion has been doctrinal . Organized religion has been doctrinal and that , to me , is largely , very largely man-made , and I get the value of traditions too and I get that . It comes through the nuances in the religion and they all play off of one another . But I've chosen to be . I tell people that people are my church , the opportunities that I take , whether it's on a Sunday or Monday or whenever it is , and I am willing to stop and listen . You know , it's sometimes one of the greatest affirmations of God because of what I'm able to share with a simple conversation , because you never know the impact of what you say is going to be .
Speaker 2You know , and I've had so many just blessed moments that are just so affirming that I don't know . I really appreciate where I'm at and I don't have all the answers , because I realize it's . I'm conflicted in a lot of ways too , because we come from a very , I would say , tribal culture , very heavily tribal , and to sit outside that fire is pretty lonely at times . But it's also good to learn how to start a fire yourself and have those experiences and to understand . You know , I can't be there because I'm not doing what the tribe thinks I should be doing . So I mean I get it now . I can't be there because I'm not doing what the tribe thinks I should be doing . So I mean I get it now , I didn't then , so I don't know if any of that makes any sense .
Speaker 1But no , it definitely makes sense .
Speaker 1I was thinking more just like because I think it's valuable and honestly I feel a lot somewhat similar to you in in a lot of that respect where I tend to find myself still quite religious , yes , but at the same time , I've been struggling with even things like like what do I believe in ? And that's such a hard question for me to answer , because , well , I believe that I think that belief and actions line up perfectly right . So if I say I believe in something , but my actions don't line up with what I say I believe , do I really believe in that thing ? Does that make sense ? What's belief to you ? Well , so you could say , somebody might ask you do you believe in God ? And my answer wants to be yes , but at the same , at the same time you go , if I say that I believe in this thing , in God , then that means that I would have to be living according to that . I believe in him , and not saying that you just follow the dogmatic religion .
Speaker 2No , I'm asking you what does belief mean To me ? Define belief . What does that represent to you ?
Speaker 1I don't know how to think about it .
Speaker 2I don't know how to put it , the best way I've come up pondering it belief is unproven theory , because belief isn't enough . Like you say , it takes action .
Navigating Beliefs With Honesty
Speaker 2Yeah Well , when you act upon a thing , you are testing it . You're seeing if it works . You know what I'm saying ? Yeah , it's that first step . It's going forward in faith . Okay .
Speaker 1Which is why not to cut you off , but that's why faith and belief are so intertwined and connected .
Speaker 2Okay , you know . And then what ? So intertwined and connected , Okay , you know . And then what do we have ? We have experiences , and that's where it gets interesting , because maybe they're good , maybe they're bad , maybe they're I mean , ultimately they just are . But it gives us a reference point . It's like , okay , I did this thing and I went through the steps , and it's just like it either worked or it didn't , and so , to a greater or lesser degree . Now what I have is wisdom with that experience , because I've actually experienced something and to me that's been helpful to , because I always grew up with belief was like , almost if I believed it , it had to be so , and so many things that I believed in my life have turned out not to be so .
Speaker 2But I've learned that they're not because I moved ahead with it , tested and tried them Tested and tried it and that's why I've always not always , it's why I've come to you know to appreciate more information , not less . Yeah , it's almost like it's okay to have too many beliefs , you know , because life will sort through them , time will bear them out one way or another . If you're honest , it's real easy to get hung up in your beliefs . I think you know , lord knows , I've got many and have had many that you get really hung up on , and when you really look at it and take inventory , you're just like , well , okay , maybe , maybe not , I don't know .
Speaker 1I haven't done the work to find out yes or no yeah , but it's kind of terrifying to start looking at your beliefs and going maybe , maybe not especially ones that are synonymous with your foundation . I mean , like if you start looking at a belief that makes up some of your foundational core and you start questioning it , but at that point is it a belief ?
Speaker 2No , but it's probably a safe guideline that's been helping you through life Well then it's because you've implemented it and you find value in it and you've experienced something in it . And it goes because , to me , if something is something I would consider foundational , that's a hill I'll die on , and I don't have a lot of them . That's a hill I'll die on and I don't have a lot of them , but the ones I have , I have , and I know what they are . Not necessarily to name them , but when I'm faced with them , I know where I stand .
Speaker 2And so , to me , foundation is that A foundation can't be a maybe , and so , if you're looking at beliefs as that , I can see where , yeah , that is scary or that is unsettling , but that is where you know whether you're you're stepping away from a religion , an established religion in your life or family , or circumstances require you to take that deep inventory of yourself and to go through that dark night of the soul , the soul , and find out what do I believe ? Who am I really , you know , and ultimately , what we're talking about is being honest , is being able to be honest with yourself .
Speaker 1And that can be terrifying , yeah , straight up so well , and that that's kind of what I was saying , or what I meant too , is that , if I'm , if you become really honest with yourself and some of those beliefs that you're getting hung up on , like , it makes sense that it's terrifying to start to question them . Yes , because what's going to be left if they're wrong ? Like , what are you left with ? Or , you know , if you start , if you start tearing back layers of things that you , that , that you think you believe in , but you haven't been honest about them I mean , I've been through enough micro examples of that that I , I , I tend to understand or tend to believe that that if I can get through the other side of a belief and do it honestly , that usually the truth will reveal itself , yes , and that you can see whether or not that it's legit and if it's legit , it it will end up standing on its own two feet .
Speaker 2Um , if that makes sense or you work through it and the belief holds yeah , but that's what I'm saying , that of , I'm terrified to look at it , but you're not terrified to not look at it .
Speaker 1Well , that's just because you haven't looked at the future To not look at it .
Speaker 2Well , that's just because you haven't looked at the future Exactly . You're thinking very here and now , and that's the thing is . That's the mindset that has to . There has to be that shift to a bigger picture .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 2The macro , not the micro , to
Building Relationships Over Consumerism
Speaker 2where you're going . Okay , I read , you know , and I would say huge part of that shift for me was I'm no longer trying to manipulate my circumstances as just another thing , as a means to an end . What do you mean ? Um , when you're a consumer , you're not only a consumer , you consume . When you have that ideology of the consumer , everything is um short-term gain and I want it here , I want it now and I'm willing to use whatever means I need to to get it okay . And that , that is , you're using things as a means to an end . You know whether it's a dopamine hit , whether it's , I mean , you name it , you name it , you know , and we see people that are willing to use people as a means to an end .
Speaker 1Yeah , which I actually think is fairly common .
Speaker 2Oh , I think it's . I think it's kind of the water we're swimming in right now and it's why we have the cultural , social and spiritual disaster that we have is there's , there's been a loss of value , because there's no again , there's no again , there's no long-term view . And that requires us to think generationally , and I mean ultimately generationally . I mean ultimately generationally , and you know that concept of you're in the middle of eternity . Do I want to do this for eternity ? I think not . I want to honor these things . I want to honor experience , I want to honor people . I want to honor people . I want to honor what I've been blessed with temporally . I want to honor these things because it matters . They're echoes through time . Relationships are echoes through time and they're .
Speaker 2I think , if we understood the expansiveness of the wisdom gained , we would just dedicate our lives to it , because it's what we take with us . It's what we take with us . It's where the lessons are learned . You know , I haven't really been able to find too many instances of circumstances that I could pinpoint where it's just like well , I learned these things in business and well , I learned this here and I learned this in nature , and you're just like it all comes through life In business , what are we ?
Speaker 2I'm always telling the young guys that are starting the businesses never forget you're in the people business . If you don't have people relationships and it's based in love and trust and respect and just a mutual desire to do and be good , you will never go anywhere long term . In my humble opinion , money is a byproduct of good relationships , you know , and wealth , I mean all of that , all of those things . They're byproducts . You got to do the people thing first and there again I mean that's something I have tried very hard to do the people thing first . And there again I mean that's something I have tried very hard to do and it's bore fruit . There's no longer a belief .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 2Does that make any sense ?
Speaker 1No , I 100% agree . Agree , I was thinking that same thing about the relationships um just in business today , because I was thinking about with certain people but I mean going back to the consumerism I see it using them to an end you consume your employees , you consume your client .
Speaker 2You consume , you consume , consume , consume and pretty soon you have nothing . You've used it all up . You know , I mean , and your business model is a Ponzi scheme , but you don't last very long . No , you don't , and it's miserable .
Speaker 1Well , it's miserable . Well , it's miserable when people start calling you Well , because the thing about it is if you do , if you're a consumer in business , you're not doing as good of a job as you could for one . No no . And so people are going to be calling you to come back , fix things .
Speaker 2You're not building anything .
Speaker 1No , you're . People are going to be calling you to come back fix things . You're not building anything . No , you're getting . It might make you a little richer in the short term , I guess theoretically .
Speaker 2You'll figure out a way to lose it . I think it will flee from you , for sure it will . It will . It'll fall right through your fingers because ill-gotten gains it requires you to let , to sacrifice a part of you . Yes , exactly .
Speaker 1Which is pretty difficult .
Speaker 2You know , and you have those that say well , I have my business ethics , and then I have my family ethics , and then I have my church ethics . It's like , no , it's all the same , it's all the same , it's all the same , and you can pretty much go to the lowest common denominator , and that's really what it is yeah , which which ?
Speaker 1you've seen things like that , I mean oh yes yep . Nobody's honest in their personal life , dishonest in business at least not for very long no , or vice versa . Usually it's the former it bleeds through everything .
Embracing Mentorship and Honest Communication
Speaker 2I had a question and I lost it sorry you're fine we've had a lot of good conversations though you've been a lot of good conversations , so no we've had a . You've been a good friend .
Speaker 1Well , and you've been a good friend , but even more than you've been a good friend to me you've been , you've been somebody that I can look , look at and look at certain things that you've done in your life and and I mean you're a mentor , that's the word I'm thinking of . You're a good mentor because you're older , you got more experience , and there there's things in your life that I'd not necessarily would would want , which would probably please you , because then I'm not just a kid that's looking at me like I just want whatever he has , but but there's things that there's things in your life that you go , man , he's got that thing dialed in right and I can extract that that thing and just go , I want , I want that thing , like like you finish projects , that's something that it's . It's difficult to me , it runs in the dna , no comment , and but you see somebody that will just attack something relentlessly like you never let up , ever , even if it's chopping someone else's wood like it will be done .
Speaker 1It burning my palates . They will get done oh it might take you four days , yep , but it will get done . Man , I had like hour five of a day . I'm just like , is this ever gonna end like ? I'm thankful mavericks take eight hours , because that is like the limit that's the limit of your attention span horrible adhd and add yeah start taking adderall and then do a podcast .
Speaker 2It's like when you read a book and someone says , do you blink ? That you think that book's true ? And I've says , well , the parts that are are . You know , it's just like someone's approach to life . It's just like you can have many , many mentors in your life and they represent different things and you know , jesus was that , christ was that archetypal , perfect man , you know , and it was put there , he's there and you know , and I , I believe more strongly in the message , the life of Christ , than I ever have ever in my life . It's that he's provided us with that noble why .
Speaker 2But all the rest of us are down here working at it , and some of us get good at one thing , and that's great . Everybody needs something and you can take that from each relationship that you have and you can have a thousand mentors and there again there's that perspective building . It is so powerful , you know , and I was thinking about it today while I was cutting wood . We hear in the zeitgeist today my truth , euphemism , my truth , that euphemism , my truth , whatever . And I thought to myself what is it that people are trying to say when they say that ? And I thought in my experience , in my experience , and they're mistaking their experience for truth , you know , and it's just like because to me there is the truth , the truth .
Speaker 1You know whether or not I can see it . That's irrelevant , it stands on its own . We were , I was basically telling her that if she does , if she has something to say , even if it's like my quote , unquote truth , which is kind of , because I feel the same way as you like my truth , I feel like there is the truth . And then there's your , your beliefs or your thoughts , right , but what if you have something to say ? What if you believe that you've like it might not be the truth , but it's my quote , unquote my truth . What if you don't say it Like and ? And for me and her it was . She was just like well , sometimes I just keep the peace , I'll just shut up so I can keep the peace . And I was telling her I I believe that there is a very small difference between just shutting up to keep the peace , not saying what you need to say , and lying Like . Both of them are going to betray you .
Speaker 2Right . Like it's a lie by omission .
Speaker 1Yeah , yeah . And so what do you say to people when they're like , yeah , well , it's my truth because I don't want to shut them down ? Right , and you might be like , well , yeah , but your truth is pretty stupid , because I've heard a lot of really really dumb .
Speaker 2Well , I think , if it can be . I think if it can be , because sometimes the best thing you can do is sit and listen and not just humor people , because they come from where they come from , you come from where they come from , you come from where you come from . Understand that fundamental truth , if you will . And in the listening , um , in the implementation of empathy , which is putting yourself in that person's shoes , not feeling sorry for them , that's not empathy , that's sympathy which is paralyzing for everybody . I think it's very important that people say those things , walk through it , let them hear it . Because many times in the thoughtful sharing of those sorts of things , especially between husband and wife , as men , we're fixers . Well , it's just like , okay , well , let's fix it , and then it's like , no , let's listen . Because many , many times and it's not just a women thing , because I have learned that you have to become a good listener , you have to be quiet Many times Because 99 times out of 100 .
Speaker 2Them hearing themselves say that If they're in a good space and if they're , you know you're trying to make things better they hear what they need to hear and they're like it was within them and it is . It is an exercise , but no , I mean , lord knows , we've been in a culture that does not encourage communication in healthy ways , for whatever reason . I mean some of it's familial , some of it's cultural , religious . I mean , you know , you're just taught to put your head down , shut up , do what you're told , and yeah , that don't work for me anymore . But people need to be heard , they need to feel free to speak , because you're a tyrant if you don't allow it and , like you say , you teach people to lie . And then it's like well , why won't my kids come to me and tell me when they need ? Well , you won't hear them .
Speaker 1Yeah , you punish them .
Speaker 2You turn it back on them , you get mad yeah , it's just like try just being neutral and just listening it's pretty difficult can be until you do it for a while , and then it's a .
Speaker 2It's a super power . It really is . No , I agree , because we've all found ourselves in rough circumstances and sometimes the best thing you can do is be that listening observer . It does not require you to get in full combat , you know , but that's , you know , that's the work is keeping yourself out of that flight or fright and feeling threatened and taking it personal and all that stuff and that's , and that's where I found that exercising that is so amazing , as far as not getting frustrated with people jockoocko Willink actually talks about listening , because he said he would do that when he's like we would have a situation come up and he
The Power of Listening and Communication
Speaker 2said sit down .
Speaker 1There might be eight or 10 people in a room and I'm at a table and I'm the leader and I would just say start shouting off ideas . He's like I'd sit back and and people would start giving him briefs . They would start saying we need to do this , we need to do this , we need to go this route , we need to do this . And he said a lot of times like you're saying it's a superpower . He said a lot of times the solution to whatever problem you're facing is just sitting right there and people are just dancing around it right there , and people are just dancing around it . Nobody's got their head up enough to look and oftentimes when you've put out an idea , your ego gets in the way and to where that idea it's like I just said it and kind of need to die on this hill now , type of a thing .
Speaker 1Yes , and he said a lot of times he said I would just sit back and listen . He said it would take me five minutes . Everybody would be done spouting off all their ideas . He's like then I go okay , this is what we're going to do . We need to do this , this , this . Everybody just be like how'd you know how to do that ? But I mean , I think I think you're right . The listening is is valuable . I , when I finally understood that list that speaking and and thinking are the same and to organize your thoughts you need to speak or write , it became a lot easier to . I mean , I tend to be an arrogant person anyways , and so what other people have to say typically doesn't matter as much as what you think that you have to say Right and so but , and it tends to be offensive too .
Speaker 1When they speak , yeah .
Speaker 2Easily offensive . You take things personally and because you're thinking you know the arrogance feeds that . Yeah , that part , it's the ego . I mean I'm not . I'm not ragging on you or anything , I'm just saying that's fine , you can rag on me all you want Right , but no , saying that's fine .
Speaker 1You can rag on me all you want Right , but uh , no , I , yeah , I , it's been helpful . Well , it's been definitely helpful in my relationship to be able to sit back and listen .
Speaker 1And what's really really crazy is sometimes I'll I'll sit back and I'll just be doing stuff , like , like , like , uh , I'll have a phone call with my wife , right , I might be gone out of town a lot and I'll sit back and listen . And I've had , as of late we've we've had a couple of conversations and and a couple of them I've just honestly , I've just been really busy while I'm listening to her and so I am listening , but not enough to be like I'm going to fix them in effects . It's just like , just keep talking , just keep talking . I couldn't believe how grateful she was . Right , cause she sorted some stuff out . That's right . I didn't , I didn't do anything . She sorted it out . You didn't , exactly , I didn't do anything . All I did was listen . I didn't fix her , I didn't tell her anything , and she appreciated it Wildly . Yeah , I mean multiple times . It's like a text .
Speaker 1Well , there were some other stuff too where it was fascinating , because there's a part of you that doesn't , there's a part of you that's terrified , that if you actually say what you think , that person's going to reject you . Yes , and it's really crazy when somebody comes out and says that , like I've had , I mean , my wife's probably not gonna be happy . But like I had a conversation with her and she literally said that like we got done , where I just listened to her , and it was of something of so insignificant , like it was not a big deal , it wasn't anything crazy , it wasn't like she's like I like to murder people , and it was something like tiny and it was just like , oh well , but I was scared that you'll leave . Yeah , it's like I mean , I've heard that , but I haven't it's .
Speaker 2It's a real thing .
Speaker 1But I've also experienced . There's been many times I've censored myself , not necessarily to like her , but to other people that are around , people in quote , unquote powerful positions that you don't want to offend . You're just like man . They might abandon me if I speak what I need to say . So let's just stay quiet and at least I know that you know they'll be there , instead of casting me out into the darkness . Because , I'm right , a monster , not actually , but you know what I'm saying well and and it's important to be yourself , but be your better self .
Speaker 2You know to be pr's vital to teach your kids that to not just walk into a room and start talking to somebody that's talking to someone else .
Speaker 1There's wisdom .
Speaker 2It's a small thing and it's just like I mean I will my adult kids I'll say excuse me , I was talking to somebody , and they'll go oh , oh , sorry , sorry , but I just it's something that I kind of demand , where it's just like no , no , no , no , you do not get to do that , sorry .
Speaker 1Yeah , we've been working with our oldest , oldest , logan . Yep , for that same reason , because it is .
Speaker 2It's really annoying , oh it is it's really annoying you and parents will put up with it . The best wait until they get out into the real world . And they try and do that to some kid on the playground and he talks him in the nose , you know it's a disservice .
Speaker 1And and the other thing , too is is like you were saying when , uh , earlier , when you're having a dialogue with somebody , when you're having a talk with somebody and you're communicating back forth like even even if it's to your spouse , me and my wife we might be talking back and forth and then the kid comes rushing in , thinking that he's the most important thing . You're gonna lose your place where you're at right , and you might have just been on the cusp of something and instead and also it's pretty cool when your kid walks into a situation and goes excuse me , and he's four , there's like a little bit of pride .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , that's my kid , he has manners .
Speaker 1No , it's great , but I mean , it's not . It's not perfect , but he's four , you work with him , right , you work with him . You work with him and , and , and , honestly , it's to do him a really good service . Oh for sure , the more fun that we can make him or enjoyable to be around , the better his life's going to be . Right socially oh yeah , leaps and bounds , yeah , and you're not doing any favors .
Speaker 2No , we've done . Today's children are so handicapped in so many ways because they've been made the center of attention always , you know to where . Well , it's just out of whack . It's just , it is out of whack and it shows .
Speaker 1But it well , it's a massive disservice to those kids when they get older , I'll say . I mean , there's multiple kids that I come in contact with and you're like you've been made the center of your world since you were born and I don't want anything to do with you . And they're 30 years old , Well , and they might be six .
Speaker 1Well , that too too , and you're just like I don't , I don't even want to hang out like right , I don't even want to be around you and it's so . I mean it . It's pretty rude , but it's what a massive disservice .
Speaker 2If you don't have to deal with them , why would you ? You know the parents have to deal with them , yeah well , and then you .
Speaker 1But you also see how the parents treat him , because the parents don't like him either .
Speaker 2Right . Well , and that's one of Jordan Peterson's rules for life is don't let your children do anything that makes you not like them , you know , and that's a great barometer because you're not liking your kids . And I've used that rule quite a bit , even with my adult kids . And I've used that that rule quite a bit , even with my adult kids , I mean because there's been . I mean , you know , I'm out mowing the lawn and I'm , and I'm starting to feel like , you know , you start having that self-talk and the dialogue and pretty soon it's just like I am really bothered by that and it's one of my kids , and so I'll think , well , is it something that is within your power to change ? And if it is , I go have the talk . You know , and it's been very , very , as Peterson would say , it has had great utility in my life .
Speaker 1So , no , it's been . It's been valuable my relationships because , well , you're dealing with your wife and she's going to be a lot more um , caring and let a lot more things slide than I will . And sometimes I'm a tyrant and what's bothering me ? I can't , you can't expect your kid to fix .
Speaker 2no , you know what I mean , like I might just be a jerk that day or right and and uh , but I don't know
Parenting Reflections and Plans
Speaker 2.
Speaker 1I think we've done a fairly good job with our kids , at least so far . I mean , they're obviously they're still really young sure logan's four , but he's such a social kid that he is . It's a great little kid well and it's fun to see . It's fun to see him interact with other adults . It's fun to see him want to yes , and not be afraid of them yeah , and they just they're social , it's healthy , yeah , so , but we've been almost an hour and a half .
Speaker 2Okay , sounds good to me .
Speaker 1Should we wrap it up and maybe do it again another day ?
Speaker 2Yes , it's been a good time .
Speaker 1Well , thanks for sitting down .
Speaker 2Thanks for having me Try it again . Okay , sounds good you .
