{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.0,"endTime":4.85,"body":"Welcome to a Yarn Story podcast. I'm Carmen and this is my co-host Lisa."},{"startTime":10.31,"endTime":17.99,"body":"I'm back for part two with Lisa of This Is Knit here in Dublin. Thanks for coming here,"},{"startTime":18.21,"endTime":24.15,"body":"by the way. Anytime. I'm excited for Guinness later. 100%. Me too."},{"startTime":25.05,"endTime":29.91,"body":"So if you missed episode or part one of the episode, we talked all about her crafting"},{"startTime":31.369,"endTime":35.01,"body":"history. History. Yeah. It sounds like a criminal record."},{"startTime":36.61,"endTime":41.63,"body":"Crafting journey. My crafting journey. In part one. And now we're going to talk more about the"},{"startTime":41.63,"endTime":46.07,"body":"business of yarn. Down to the serious stuff now. Yeah."},{"startTime":51.81,"endTime":55.63,"body":"Kind of my favorite part. I know it is. I'm excited for this because I'm like,"},{"startTime":55.63,"endTime":61.43,"body":"what is she going to ask? All right. So for those who haven't watched part one and aren't"},{"startTime":61.43,"endTime":64.57,"body":"going to go back because they're just here for the business. All right. Would you like"},{"startTime":64.57,"endTime":70.75,"body":"to introduce yourself again and specifically all of the things in your business? Ooh. Okay."},{"startTime":70.97,"endTime":75.99,"body":"So my name is Lisa and I am co-owner of This Is Knit in the Paris Court Center in Dublin,"},{"startTime":76.09,"endTime":83.49,"body":"Ireland. Myself and my mom have had our yarn shop business for 18 years, which is a bit crazy to"},{"startTime":83.49,"endTime":90.51,"body":"say. So it's been, it's been a journey from very small beginnings. I also do a lot of knitting"},{"startTime":90.51,"endTime":97.07,"body":"teaching, more virtually really, in the form of Instagram tutorials, things like our follow-alongs"},{"startTime":97.07,"endTime":102.79,"body":"where we do deep dives into different techniques, like just making your first sweater, doing your"},{"startTime":102.79,"endTime":107.47,"body":"first color work. I do a lot of mini tutorials on Instagram on the This Is Knit account."},{"startTime":107.47,"endTime":113.51,"body":"And I also teach with knitting tours. So if you're interested in coming for a retreat to Ireland"},{"startTime":114.01,"endTime":117.95,"body":"with a very, not even with a very strong knitting team, with a knitting team,"},{"startTime":118.59,"endTime":125.05,"body":"then you can check them out. And also Townhouse Yarns is part of what I do. My sister Jenny,"},{"startTime":125.33,"endTime":131.77,"body":"so very much a family business. So, but we call this our sister, sister brand. So Townhouse Yarns"},{"startTime":131.77,"endTime":136.79,"body":"has a beautiful range of hand-dyed yarns. My sister is absolutely the creative drive behind"},{"startTime":136.79,"endTime":143.17,"body":"us and I'm the Excel sheets. Everybody needs the Excel sheets. Yes, we do. We do for sure. So it's"},{"startTime":143.17,"endTime":151.75,"body":"a nicely symbiotic relationship. Amazing. Maybe I'll start with how is it running a family business?"},{"startTime":152.69,"endTime":158.33,"body":"Also, yeah, that's an interesting one. It does, it can have its challenges, but I do get asked"},{"startTime":158.33,"endTime":165.59,"body":"this a lot and generally not as bad as people would think. There's a lot of benefits to it. I"},{"startTime":165.59,"endTime":171.75,"body":"mean, we're at a fundamental level, myself, my mom, my sister, we all get along really well."},{"startTime":172.19,"endTime":178.13,"body":"That does help. We're a close family. I have another sister who's not involved in the yarn"},{"startTime":178.13,"endTime":183.83,"body":"industry. Hi other sister. So we should give a big wave out to her. We did try and kind of"},{"startTime":183.83,"endTime":189.99,"body":"get her into the fold, but she actually went the other way. She works in legal now. So that's part"},{"startTime":189.99,"endTime":196.23,"body":"of the backstory. And a brother lives in San Francisco and has absolutely no interest in this."},{"startTime":198.73,"endTime":205.57,"body":"But no, we, look, you can be more brutally honest sometimes with your family and that can be a good"},{"startTime":205.57,"endTime":212.15,"body":"thing. And it can also be a bad thing, but we're still talking to each other 18 years later. I"},{"startTime":212.15,"endTime":220.17,"body":"have each other's backs. I think that's a real key thing. So like when I was trying to have my"},{"startTime":220.17,"endTime":227.37,"body":"babies and when I have my babies, mom stood in in such a huge way for, and really carried a lot"},{"startTime":227.37,"endTime":232.19,"body":"of the load at that time, which I'm very appreciative of. And that means we're still here."},{"startTime":233.09,"endTime":238.25,"body":"And definitely, there's days like here with Jenny where she needs a little bit more help and we all"},{"startTime":239.13,"endTime":246.87,"body":"amazing. All right. So let's go back to the beginnings of this, isn't it? So you started in a"},{"startTime":246.87,"endTime":255.67,"body":"market stall? We did. Yes. And it was very much a case of, let's just see. So total bootstrapping,"},{"startTime":256.45,"endTime":262.31,"body":"total bootstrapping. My friend from college helped us set up a website, his friends,"},{"startTime":262.31,"endTime":269.51,"body":"our original logo. And mom did a start your own business course with them. They have the local"},{"startTime":269.51,"endTime":274.31,"body":"enterprise offices here in Ireland and they're fantastic. So at the time I was living on the"},{"startTime":274.31,"endTime":279.77,"body":"other side of the country and we were trying around this idea of, you know, maybe we should"},{"startTime":279.77,"endTime":284.61,"body":"open up our own yarn store, but, you know, let's do our literal market research. Let's go and open"},{"startTime":284.61,"endTime":291.01,"body":"a market stall. So we did. We did. There's a town in the south of Dublin called Black Rock,"},{"startTime":291.01,"endTime":296.37,"body":"lovely seaside and suburb of Dublin. It's very cool. It is. It's a funky place. There's a lot"},{"startTime":296.37,"endTime":302.07,"body":"of very cool businesses that started from Black Rock Market. And it has, it's covered, it has"},{"startTime":302.07,"endTime":307.31,"body":"indoor spaces. So, you know, we want to protect the yarn. A lot of markets are outside. So we"},{"startTime":307.31,"endTime":314.77,"body":"live an hour on the other side of Dublin, but we were driving down there, 5am starts, 6am starts,"},{"startTime":314.77,"endTime":322.17,"body":"hauling the yarn. Did you have to get set up? We did. You theoretically could have left your stuff"},{"startTime":322.17,"endTime":328.23,"body":"there overnight because it was a Saturday and Sunday market. But we didn't feel happy doing"},{"startTime":328.23,"endTime":334.43,"body":"that. We had like the open space and because it was a stall in like a big hall essentially."},{"startTime":335.41,"endTime":339.85,"body":"And yeah, so we were mad enough. We took it. So it's precious yarn. Why would we leave it there?"},{"startTime":339.85,"endTime":345.15,"body":"It's precious. That is a lot of work. It was. It really was. There was a lot of very early starts"},{"startTime":345.15,"endTime":348.47,"body":"and a lot of very cold days, but thankfully we had network."},{"startTime":349.05,"endTime":356.23,"body":"So what did you learn running a market stall like that first? I mean,"},{"startTime":356.69,"endTime":363.95,"body":"what was, I suppose, an amazing thing because, I mean, we sort of dove in and sort of maybe"},{"startTime":363.95,"endTime":368.11,"body":"there's other people out there like us who also like this yarn. And what was amazing"},{"startTime":368.11,"endTime":374.67,"body":"was finding those people and the level of support that you would get from them. We literally had"},{"startTime":374.67,"endTime":379.03,"body":"direct conversations about, okay, well, we started with brand A and brand B. What other brands would"},{"startTime":379.03,"endTime":385.41,"body":"you like to see? And people were really generous with their time and their recommendations and"},{"startTime":385.41,"endTime":393.07,"body":"feedback. So you were building relationships from the very start and yeah, just learning on the job"},{"startTime":393.07,"endTime":398.03,"body":"because mom and I both have like strong backgrounds in customer service and customer"},{"startTime":398.03,"endTime":402.75,"body":"service roles, but had zero experience of retail. Like I've never worked in a clothes shop."},{"startTime":403.01,"endTime":407.29,"body":"There's nothing, you know, we've been in service industry jobs in restaurants, bars, airlines."},{"startTime":408.01,"endTime":414.93,"body":"And so still to this day, customer service is a massive, massive like rock, like anchor, I suppose,"},{"startTime":414.99,"endTime":421.09,"body":"to what we do. I'm just going to say that there is no one doing customer service better than Lisa"},{"startTime":421.09,"endTime":427.39,"body":"and her team. And my team, the team, they are absolutely like the gold standard by which"},{"startTime":427.39,"endTime":432.49,"body":"all retail should measure themselves, quite frankly. Oh, that's, that's, that's high praise. Thank you."},{"startTime":433.51,"endTime":438.95,"body":"It's true though. But yeah, it's, it's really fundamental. We want to take care of people,"},{"startTime":439.31,"endTime":442.79,"body":"you know. And so that's, yeah, that's what we do with the retail side."},{"startTime":443.65,"endTime":448.09,"body":"A lot of learning on the job on that. Yes. Do you remember what brands you stock? I do."},{"startTime":448.09,"endTime":455.97,"body":"Yeah. We started with Debbie Bliss and we got in Noro. And then I think shortly after that,"},{"startTime":456.45,"endTime":461.17,"body":"we might've done, I don't think we did Louisa Harding at the start. And then Rowan was really"},{"startTime":461.17,"endTime":466.43,"body":"highly requested. So that was the next. But it was tricky at the start because, you know,"},{"startTime":466.51,"endTime":470.23,"body":"you literally, again, we had no background of this and you're approaching brands and"},{"startTime":470.23,"endTime":473.81,"body":"they were going, but who are you and what are you doing? And like, this isn't, you know, even,"},{"startTime":474.45,"endTime":478.33,"body":"even just finding out that like, what are your prices somehow? What are the minimums? Like I"},{"startTime":478.33,"endTime":483.19,"body":"found, like, I struggled with it because I, you know, never gone through that process of"},{"startTime":483.19,"endTime":488.91,"body":"approaching brands before. So, um, but we did. Order minimums are bigger than you might think."},{"startTime":489.11,"endTime":495.45,"body":"Yes. Yes, they are. Absolutely. So, um, so we look, we invested like a little bit of money in"},{"startTime":495.45,"endTime":500.63,"body":"at the start and then what we did, cause I was working part-time still. My mom, Jackie was"},{"startTime":500.63,"endTime":506.75,"body":"working part-time and we reinvested everything that we made for the first, I don't know, year,"},{"startTime":506.91,"endTime":512.63,"body":"year, two years, maybe we paid ourselves like a little stipend in a year or two. Um, but every"},{"startTime":512.63,"endTime":519.07,"body":"single sale, everything went back in to expanding the range, um, expanding where we work. So we"},{"startTime":519.07,"endTime":524.27,"body":"started with a stall in a shared space and there were these cabins that you could take. So we moved"},{"startTime":524.27,"endTime":530.71,"body":"there in the market. Um, and then as the demand grew, we, uh, there's two more permanent units."},{"startTime":530.81,"endTime":535.25,"body":"It was the old guard, guard station, police station. Um, and so there was a room on either"},{"startTime":535.25,"endTime":540.37,"body":"side of that. Um, and then we took, uh, one of those rooms and started opening five days a week."},{"startTime":540.57,"endTime":548.53,"body":"Wow. Yeah. So how long were you in Blackrock? Uh, so June, 2006 until actually a full two years,"},{"startTime":548.53,"endTime":553.97,"body":"but with the caveat that in, uh, after a year and a half, we opened a small shop in Dublin city"},{"startTime":553.97,"endTime":560.29,"body":"center. Okay. And then two locations. Yes. We ran the two locations side-by-side for six months"},{"startTime":561.15,"endTime":568.75,"body":"with myself, Jackie and Aileen. The three of us like cycling between the two. Um,"},{"startTime":568.97,"endTime":573.99,"body":"but I was quite keen. I think you probably experienced this where, um, a shop that you love,"},{"startTime":574.13,"endTime":578.03,"body":"you know, suddenly you rock up one day and it's closed up and it's, you know, there's a new tenant."},{"startTime":578.03,"endTime":584.43,"body":"Nobody knows what's going on. Um, and you, you just think they're close, they're gone. So, um,"},{"startTime":584.57,"endTime":590.37,"body":"I mean, six months was maybe a little excessive, but we, we ran that so we could get people"},{"startTime":590.37,"endTime":596.23,"body":"used to the concept of, well, we're in Dublin. And then the shop in Dublin was too small to,"},{"startTime":596.83,"endTime":601.23,"body":"to have all of the operations. We wanted to do classes and, and all of that. So,"},{"startTime":601.23,"endTime":605.97,"body":"uh, when we had the chance to take the neighboring unit in the Dublin city center location,"},{"startTime":605.97,"endTime":610.45,"body":"that's when we closed up Blackrock and moved wholesale, moved into."},{"startTime":611.47,"endTime":619.91,"body":"Is that where you are now? No, it's not. So in, it was September 2008 when we moved into"},{"startTime":620.99,"endTime":626.17,"body":"the tiny unit in the Paris court center. So it's the same building. Um, and then it was the"},{"startTime":626.17,"endTime":629.75,"body":"following June that we took over the neighboring unit as well. But you've been in Paris court"},{"startTime":629.75,"endTime":637.51,"body":"since 2008. Yes. Okay. So for those of you who haven't been to Dublin, um, come visit Dublin"},{"startTime":638.39,"endTime":646.09,"body":"one and two powers court center is in like the dead center of Dublin. It's right off of Grafton"},{"startTime":646.09,"endTime":653.97,"body":"street, which is a super famous street, big shopping there, big retailers, like high end."},{"startTime":654.53,"endTime":660.95,"body":"This is not where you usually find a yarn shop. Yeah. I, I clearly, again, not knowing anything"},{"startTime":660.95,"endTime":665.21,"body":"about retail when, um, but I think the Paris court center it's a little bit different. I mean,"},{"startTime":665.21,"endTime":670.67,"body":"it's, it's amazing location. Um, but all are, I think it's still true. I think at the time we"},{"startTime":670.67,"endTime":676.65,"body":"moved in all of our two of the units in there were, um, occupied by independent owner operated"},{"startTime":676.65,"endTime":683.95,"body":"businesses. So it always has had that culture of supporting independent retail. Amazing. Please"},{"startTime":683.95,"endTime":689.95,"body":"more places do that. Um, it just brings character and life and variety to, to city center locations,"},{"startTime":689.95,"endTime":694.45,"body":"which is really dying out and it's really unfortunate. Um, but I think, yeah, I think"},{"startTime":694.45,"endTime":699.55,"body":"it's, it's pretty much the same. It's a really strong, um, uh, supporter of Irish businesses"},{"startTime":699.55,"endTime":705.85,"body":"and local operators. So, um, but a gorgeous, gorgeous building. It is absolutely stunning."},{"startTime":706.11,"endTime":712.83,"body":"Um, so for those of you who don't know either, I used to live in Ireland and my, like the whole"},{"startTime":712.83,"endTime":717.77,"body":"yarn story journey, if you haven't read about it actually starts at this, isn't it?"},{"startTime":720.25,"endTime":724.13,"body":"Because I was bored. And my mom came to, well, no, cause my mom came to visit. She's like,"},{"startTime":724.15,"endTime":729.59,"body":"I'd like some Irish yarn. And I was like, okay. Um, so I was Googling and I took her to some"},{"startTime":730.23,"endTime":734.47,"body":"something in the middle of nowhere that just had acrylic. Yeah. And then it turned out there"},{"startTime":734.47,"endTime":739.79,"body":"was something in the town center. And so we drove in and there were, remember like following Google"},{"startTime":739.79,"endTime":744.25,"body":"maps and being like, I go in this building all the time. Like, how have I not noticed?"},{"startTime":744.51,"endTime":749.27,"body":"Yeah. Like I used to go to the cafe in the center and I used to shop at All Saints."},{"startTime":749.63,"endTime":753.71,"body":"That was like, Oh yeah, they're still there. Yeah. Um, quite a lot. And I had just never"},{"startTime":753.71,"endTime":760.33,"body":"noticed you guys before. I haven't been there all that long and I wasn't knitting at the time."},{"startTime":760.47,"endTime":766.21,"body":"Yeah. So, well, what we've been able to do, I suppose, is take, cause it's, um, it's a"},{"startTime":766.21,"endTime":771.13,"body":"convergent Georgian building, right? So, um, and, and there's a whole courtyard thing in the middle"},{"startTime":771.13,"endTime":776.87,"body":"and like, it's not your traditional shopping center. So you're not going to see the standardized shop"},{"startTime":776.87,"endTime":782.35,"body":"window next, next, next, you know, as you would in out of town shopping centers. Um, so there are"},{"startTime":782.35,"endTime":786.71,"body":"some certain units that are quite tucked away a little bit like, you know, off the beaten track,"},{"startTime":786.73,"endTime":791.49,"body":"um, and maybe not immediately obvious. And then there's restrictions on what we can do in terms"},{"startTime":791.49,"endTime":796.47,"body":"of signage and kind of the presence in it. Um, but I will take all of that for the lovely building."},{"startTime":797.03,"endTime":801.71,"body":"Um, and what we've been able to do, I think, because knitting is something that people,"},{"startTime":801.93,"endTime":807.71,"body":"when you're keen on it, you will seek out the yarn shops and become a destination shop. So,"},{"startTime":808.17,"endTime":814.17,"body":"um, yeah, people, people who are motivated find us. Well, and my mom was motivated and so I found you."},{"startTime":814.67,"endTime":821.39,"body":"Um, and she picked out a project with some lovely Irish yarn and I still distinctly remember you had"},{"startTime":822.15,"endTime":829.41,"body":"a scarf, um, in like a beigey color on the side and I, I kept picking it up and I was like,"},{"startTime":830.55,"endTime":834.21,"body":"I could do that. I don't want to turn into a cow. I want to do something chunkier. Like I was already"},{"startTime":834.21,"endTime":839.25,"body":"like thinking like a knitter. Yeah. Well, cause I mean, you know, I had this, I had this very"},{"startTime":839.25,"endTime":843.79,"body":"crafty childhood, so it wasn't out of the realm of possibility for me that I can, I can make"},{"startTime":843.79,"endTime":848.57,"body":"something a little slightly different. Um, and I'd bought, uh, I think it was Debbie Bliss Arend."},{"startTime":848.57,"endTime":855.49,"body":"Yeah. Something. Yeah. And I made that cowl. Good woman. And then the rest is history. Basically,"},{"startTime":855.73,"endTime":861.19,"body":"it's always his fault. In part one, you talked about how you got back into knitting when you"},{"startTime":861.19,"endTime":867.03,"body":"were in New Zealand and you talked about how you found a little yarn shop and you walked past the"},{"startTime":867.03,"endTime":871.09,"body":"window like three times because you were kind of intimidated. Yeah. And then you finally went in."},{"startTime":871.09,"endTime":880.87,"body":"Um, and I think that story must be like your origin story because there is no one like more"},{"startTime":880.87,"endTime":888.01,"body":"welcoming and more sort of like you come in and do this and like less intimidating a space. Like"},{"startTime":888.01,"endTime":895.23,"body":"I found that when I was first starting, you guys were always just so welcoming and helpful. Um,"},{"startTime":895.23,"endTime":903.17,"body":"so tell me a little bit about that philosophy. And I think, I mean, we just fundamentally"},{"startTime":903.77,"endTime":909.95,"body":"want to help people. It's, it's, it's, it's in our, our DNA, I think as a,"},{"startTime":910.35,"endTime":915.15,"body":"and I kind of say, even just the words to say as a company feels like doesn't roll off my tongue."},{"startTime":915.25,"endTime":922.79,"body":"I think like as a team, you know, as a, as a hub in a crafting community, um, that's so strong in,"},{"startTime":922.79,"endTime":929.49,"body":"it's just what we do, you know? And if that person is somebody who's coming in and is really"},{"startTime":929.49,"endTime":933.83,"body":"uncertain and not sure, like I was when I first went in, you know, we sort of want to take you"},{"startTime":933.83,"endTime":940.11,"body":"under our wing and, you know, mind you. And, and, but also because we're so clearly obsessed,"},{"startTime":940.93,"endTime":945.35,"body":"obsessed is the right word for me too. You know, we love company in that zone. We want to welcome"},{"startTime":945.35,"endTime":952.87,"body":"more people into that. It, knitting just, it gives you so much, I feel, you know, and yeah,"},{"startTime":953.01,"endTime":957.45,"body":"okay. A hundred percent, it's not for everybody, but, but if it is your thing, oh my gosh,"},{"startTime":957.47,"endTime":962.41,"body":"is it your thing? You know? And it's, there's, there is that, like those connections that you"},{"startTime":962.41,"endTime":968.23,"body":"make, um, people come into the shop, um, like off flights, you know, they've come in from the States"},{"startTime":968.23,"endTime":972.41,"body":"and there'll be another person there with, you know, local from Ireland and they are chatting"},{"startTime":972.41,"endTime":977.03,"body":"and they are getting on like a house on fire, you know, within two minutes, it's like, oh my"},{"startTime":977.03,"endTime":981.19,"body":"gosh, what yarn is that? And then they just break down. Definitely there's like best knitting"},{"startTime":981.19,"endTime":986.29,"body":"buddies. A hundred percent. I love when that happens. And actually similar to your story of"},{"startTime":986.29,"endTime":992.57,"body":"where you were in Dublin and didn't know a lot of people and then you came and you found us and then"},{"startTime":992.57,"endTime":999.59,"body":"you got introduced to other people. And there are so many of our customers that like can tell a"},{"startTime":999.59,"endTime":1006.05,"body":"similar story of where coming into it, like a new city, you know, just finding their people."},{"startTime":1006.19,"endTime":1011.05,"body":"Absolutely. True. And it's a shop. It is a shop. But it's, but it's so much more. It is absolutely"},{"startTime":1011.05,"endTime":1016.07,"body":"so much more. Uh, it's what they call a third space. A third space. Yes. I feel like I've heard"},{"startTime":1016.07,"endTime":1021.55,"body":"that, but I don't, I don't know. Yeah. It's, um, basically you have like your home and your work"},{"startTime":1021.55,"endTime":1025.45,"body":"and then there's third space. I don't know if I'm defining this correctly, but there's, um,"},{"startTime":1025.45,"endTime":1030.97,"body":"third spaces in the community that are absolutely important and like sort of anchoring points for"},{"startTime":1030.97,"endTime":1038.369,"body":"people to gather and connect and find community. And yarn shops are absolutely one of those third"},{"startTime":1038.369,"endTime":1043.65,"body":"spaces. Yeah. Um, I just like, I mean, I would think they're extremely important, but they are."},{"startTime":1043.77,"endTime":1049.41,"body":"They are very important. Yeah. Um, okay. You were uncomfortable calling yourselves a company."},{"startTime":1049.41,"endTime":1055.07,"body":"Yeah. Yeah. You are a company. We are. They are. You are clearly a successful company."},{"startTime":1055.55,"endTime":1064.71,"body":"We were doing okay. You are in business 18 years later. Um, you did a rebrand and a big refit to"},{"startTime":1064.71,"endTime":1070.31,"body":"the shop last year. Two years ago. Two years ago now. Yeah. Time flies. It really does. And"},{"startTime":1070.31,"endTime":1077.85,"body":"we are currently sitting in your new warehouse office dye studio. Yes. Business unit, I suppose."},{"startTime":1078.79,"endTime":1084.47,"body":"Call it that. Yes. Cause it does. It has many hats. Yeah. Um, yeah, that's a lot."},{"startTime":1084.79,"endTime":1094.15,"body":"It is a lot. Yeah. Um, I, I don't know how to have it. No, there's, I've always been,"},{"startTime":1094.19,"endTime":1098.63,"body":"I think we talked in part one as well. Like I just want to be doing stuff. Um, I like,"},{"startTime":1098.77,"endTime":1104.19,"body":"I like to keep busy. I also need to moderate that sometimes my own health and wellbeing as well. But"},{"startTime":1104.19,"endTime":1111.25,"body":"um, yeah, I, I, I don't like to sit still. I want to kind of move on and see what we can do next."},{"startTime":1111.67,"endTime":1117.77,"body":"Um, certainly I think what happened, uh, in terms of the refit, um, I mean, there were the COVID"},{"startTime":1117.77,"endTime":1124.63,"body":"years. Um, we did obviously have to trade online during that time. Um, and being our only option."},{"startTime":1124.75,"endTime":1130.83,"body":"Um, and I felt like we evolved so much in the online space over those years,"},{"startTime":1130.83,"endTime":1139.17,"body":"but then the shop itself sort of lagged behind in, um, I don't know that like that,"},{"startTime":1139.33,"endTime":1147.31,"body":"the image that we were putting out. Um, and so I really, it was like dug into this. No, I want to,"},{"startTime":1147.45,"endTime":1154.59,"body":"I want to do a refit, you know, and that's, that is not a cheap thing to do. Um, but we had,"},{"startTime":1154.69,"endTime":1158.53,"body":"I mean, talking about the origin story of coming up through the market and everything, we had"},{"startTime":1159.09,"endTime":1165.19,"body":"always bootstrapped, always tried to make sure, you know, like the money was coming, like minimal,"},{"startTime":1165.33,"endTime":1170.39,"body":"minimal business loans. Um, I think we took one when we moved into the power support center,"},{"startTime":1170.61,"endTime":1179.45,"body":"when we took the larger unit, but like very, very lean. Yeah. Okay. Um, and reusing units. I mean,"},{"startTime":1179.49,"endTime":1187.21,"body":"there is actually still a yarn unit, two of them from our very early days upstairs for like in,"},{"startTime":1187.21,"endTime":1190.91,"body":"in the packing room now, like, you know, it's storing envelopes and different things like that."},{"startTime":1191.03,"endTime":1195.99,"body":"So, I mean, there's, there's a, I don't like to be wasteful, you know, environmentally conscious,"},{"startTime":1196.05,"endTime":1204.53,"body":"all of that. Um, but yeah, so taking that leap to do the shop refit, um, was a lot. And certainly"},{"startTime":1204.53,"endTime":1210.39,"body":"like when I started getting the quotes, there was a day when I got a quote, um, and I went,"},{"startTime":1210.47,"endTime":1215.25,"body":"oh, well that's that then, no, never going to happen. Um, and I went and I threw myself in"},{"startTime":1215.25,"endTime":1223.83,"body":"the sea, um, in a, in a good way, um, reset way. Uh, but then, but then I sat with it for a while"},{"startTime":1223.83,"endTime":1230.15,"body":"and went, okay, well, this is what things cost. And yeah, trying to have that level of confidence"},{"startTime":1230.15,"endTime":1236.15,"body":"in what we've built up already to kind of go, yeah, I think, you know, I think we can make this"},{"startTime":1236.15,"endTime":1242.03,"body":"work. Yeah. You know, not being afraid, looking at the fact that we've come through COVID and"},{"startTime":1242.61,"endTime":1249.47,"body":"we still had a business. Yes. You know, we still have a very thankfully loyal following, um,"},{"startTime":1249.65,"endTime":1254.17,"body":"and contacts in our industry. There's all of these, like I was like listing like all of the reasons"},{"startTime":1254.17,"endTime":1259.71,"body":"why, you know, we should be confident about, about doing this. Um, which I struggle with,"},{"startTime":1259.77,"endTime":1267.09,"body":"you know, that sort of self-belief. Um, and so we, we went for it. Um, and it's really,"},{"startTime":1267.09,"endTime":1273.55,"body":"really worked out and I'm very pleased with how it all turned out and so delighted with,"},{"startTime":1273.63,"endTime":1277.15,"body":"cause there was, there was an option, you know, this sort of really long quotes and"},{"startTime":1277.15,"endTime":1282.33,"body":"there was an option. All of this money, and then we can project manage it for like this extra bit"},{"startTime":1282.33,"endTime":1286.15,"body":"of money. Yeah. Or do you want to project manage it? I was like, do you know what? I mean, for a"},{"startTime":1286.15,"endTime":1296.15,"body":"penny. So I'd be paying you that much. Um, and it was, but it was realizing and maturing, I think,"},{"startTime":1296.15,"endTime":1300.75,"body":"as a business owner and knowing like, where are my strengths? Where should I be focusing my energy"},{"startTime":1300.75,"endTime":1308.01,"body":"on? Um, and that, that ain't in chasing carpenters, right? So yeah. So we went with, um, with"},{"startTime":1308.01,"endTime":1313.69,"body":"Restless Design and lovely people. So, so good. Um, and really great to work with. And then they"},{"startTime":1313.69,"endTime":1318.07,"body":"worked with Pride Craft Construction, um, just to give them a shout out if anybody's looking,"},{"startTime":1318.07,"endTime":1324.21,"body":"cause you know, like when, when you find people, we were talking about leaving reviews. Yes. Um,"},{"startTime":1324.21,"endTime":1331.05,"body":"and we got, we moved out and the center very kindly gave us our old unit back to put the rest"},{"startTime":1331.05,"endTime":1335.61,"body":"of it in. Well, that's the, that's the hard part about a renovation too, is you're like,"},{"startTime":1335.93,"endTime":1340.69,"body":"we're going to have to put this stuff back. Yeah. Um, but that was the Saturday we finished up on"},{"startTime":1340.69,"endTime":1347.35,"body":"the Saturday. Um, and 10 days later, they gave it back to us. Um, that's fast. Really fast. Yeah."},{"startTime":1347.45,"endTime":1351.93,"body":"And it was like, everything was repainted, refloored, refit everything. Um, and then it took"},{"startTime":1351.93,"endTime":1356.79,"body":"another three or three or so days to kind of get back up and running. Yeah. Um, but the cost,"},{"startTime":1356.93,"endTime":1360.71,"body":"I think of paying them to project managers, like obviously the longer you're closed,"},{"startTime":1361.39,"endTime":1367.83,"body":"you're actively losing money basically. Um, and, uh, to get back to the turnaround was fantastic."},{"startTime":1369.45,"endTime":1377.13,"body":"So after being terrified of it, I'm very glad we did it. What are some big challenges you've"},{"startTime":1377.13,"endTime":1385.83,"body":"had over 18 years? Do some things stand out? I do have a lot of terrifying moments. I remember"},{"startTime":1385.83,"endTime":1390.59,"body":"one of the early, we did a lot of knitting and stitching shows, uh, when, back when they were"},{"startTime":1390.59,"endTime":1395.73,"body":"coming to Dublin and I'm like, I remember going into that weekend kind of thinking,"},{"startTime":1396.01,"endTime":1401.17,"body":"if we don't make a certain, like, I don't, I don't know, do we make it through Christmas?"},{"startTime":1401.65,"endTime":1405.43,"body":"You know, we don't take in a certain amount of that. So there was definitely been those moments"},{"startTime":1405.43,"endTime":1412.47,"body":"of, yeah, we've, we've flown a little too close to the sun here, or, you know, like, it's just"},{"startTime":1412.47,"endTime":1416.27,"body":"a little too tight cashflow wise. That's always going to be, you know,"},{"startTime":1416.37,"endTime":1423.75,"body":"a challenge for any small business. Do you find that that still happens? Uh, I have, yes."},{"startTime":1426.01,"endTime":1432.03,"body":"I mean, I'll admit that happens to us. Yeah. Sometimes I'm like, oh, okay. Yeah. This day,"},{"startTime":1432.03,"endTime":1436.31,"body":"you kind of come in and go, okay. But it's a lot of the time it's, you know, there's just a little"},{"startTime":1436.31,"endTime":1440.55,"body":"bit of, some of the planning has gone a little bit of stray of like where the expenditure has"},{"startTime":1440.55,"endTime":1447.49,"body":"to come out before, you know, you can cover that. Um, so it does, but I've become, and I'm going to"},{"startTime":1447.49,"endTime":1456.89,"body":"go way back, uh, to, uh, in school, I was very academic and like loved most things, not Irish,"},{"startTime":1456.89,"endTime":1463.07,"body":"but yeah. Um, I think, I think anybody who's in Ireland might, you know, okay. Sympathize with"},{"startTime":1463.07,"endTime":1469.09,"body":"me on that one. Um, and, uh, but we do a thing in school year to transition year. So it's in between,"},{"startTime":1469.09,"endTime":1474.87,"body":"um, your, your exams that you do around age 15 and then your, your senior cycle exams,"},{"startTime":1474.95,"endTime":1479.39,"body":"but transition year is, um, most schools do it now, but it was a pilot program when I did it,"},{"startTime":1479.39,"endTime":1483.75,"body":"um, which is kind of like this break, a little bit not so academic. They take you out, do more"},{"startTime":1483.75,"endTime":1489.85,"body":"practical stuff and you can try different subjects that maybe you didn't do in your junior cycle."},{"startTime":1490.65,"endTime":1496.01,"body":"Um, and so business studies was one of those subjects. Hated it. Yeah. Hated it. Yeah. Really"},{"startTime":1496.01,"endTime":1504.31,"body":"just didn't, didn't gel with me at all. Um, and here we are now, um, but some of those things"},{"startTime":1504.31,"endTime":1510.31,"body":"that I really didn't like about, you know, I've had, I've forced myself to like, cause I'm creative."},{"startTime":1510.31,"endTime":1516.97,"body":"I like to move. I don't like to be restricted. Um, but really having to sit down and be a lot"},{"startTime":1516.97,"endTime":1523.83,"body":"more organized about budgeting and organized about cashflow and, uh, is, has been really"},{"startTime":1523.83,"endTime":1528.91,"body":"beneficial to be fair, you know, so it's a, that's a type of the side of the business,"},{"startTime":1529.25,"endTime":1534.53,"body":"you know, I'm not going to enjoy, but, um, yeah, it has to be done and it allows us to keep going"},{"startTime":1534.53,"endTime":1540.97,"body":"and, and to do more creative things. So you have a top tip for people on the financial side?"},{"startTime":1541.41,"endTime":1548.17,"body":"Uh, money management, um, there is a book I recommended to you. Um, and it's called"},{"startTime":1549.37,"endTime":1555.91,"body":"I really do. Uh, so that's a book called profit first. Um, again, I hate, I hated this concept"},{"startTime":1555.91,"endTime":1562.57,"body":"profit profit. Um, but like, if you're not, if you are not, if you're not in profit, then there is"},{"startTime":1563.05,"endTime":1567.89,"body":"no point in doing it. I mean, exactly. You know, I say this all the time too, with like products"},{"startTime":1567.89,"endTime":1572.69,"body":"we bring in the shop and like either cause you know, that pricing is like my personal, I know."},{"startTime":1576.09,"endTime":1579.23,"body":"She showed me new yarn today and I said, what's the price? And she said, I don't know. And I was"},{"startTime":1579.23,"endTime":1584.59,"body":"like, well, then how do I know if I want to know it off the top of my head? Oh my God."},{"startTime":1586.67,"endTime":1589.99,"body":"I that's like pre Barcelona. I figured that I should sign a spreadsheet."},{"startTime":1593.15,"endTime":1598.63,"body":"Because I always like, it doesn't matter how much I love something because of the price isn't right."},{"startTime":1598.91,"endTime":1603.53,"body":"There's no point in selling a hundred percent. And I don't actually know where I was going with my"},{"startTime":1603.53,"endTime":1607.77,"body":"question on that. If you're not in profit, then like you're not in profit and there's no point"},{"startTime":1607.77,"endTime":1612.83,"body":"in doing it because you just, you won't be able to pay your staff or your suppliers or yourself."},{"startTime":1612.99,"endTime":1618.61,"body":"And you know what kills creativity? Stress. Yes. Right. So you can't have fun with your business."},{"startTime":1619.05,"endTime":1624.43,"body":"You can't like bring joy and energy to your customers. If you're not taking care of that,"},{"startTime":1624.65,"endTime":1630.67,"body":"you know, absolutely. So that's learning curves. Yeah. So, so that book, I mean like I've only,"},{"startTime":1630.89,"endTime":1634.31,"body":"when did I read it? It's only about two and a half, three years ago, I think, you know, but it was,"},{"startTime":1634.73,"endTime":1641.73,"body":"it clarified some things for me. And it's actually from a personal budgeting side of things. I had"},{"startTime":1641.73,"endTime":1649.01,"body":"been using this app for a long time called You Need a Budget. So total recommendation here. I"},{"startTime":1649.01,"endTime":1654.23,"body":"should get the affiliate link. Let's get the affiliate link going. So they abbreviated to"},{"startTime":1654.23,"endTime":1660.69,"body":"YNAB. So You Need a Budget. And it's actually recommended. I, back when I used to be on that"},{"startTime":1660.69,"endTime":1669.81,"body":"platform, but I won't go on anymore. The platform formerly known as, right. It was somebody in the"},{"startTime":1669.81,"endTime":1674.29,"body":"industry that kind of went, I'm looking for a recommendation. And Casey from Ravelry was"},{"startTime":1674.29,"endTime":1681.91,"body":"singing the praises as well. And I kind of went, well, they like, yeah. So that's a long way around"},{"startTime":1681.91,"endTime":1688.49,"body":"to say, definitely if you hate the concept of budgeting, use YNAB. It's brilliant. It's really"},{"startTime":1688.49,"endTime":1693.35,"body":"good. It's allowed on a personal level, like that visibility of my finances that I just didn't have"},{"startTime":1693.35,"endTime":1699.11,"body":"before. And then I could see how you can use that to apply the profit first method in your business."},{"startTime":1699.11,"endTime":1705.19,"body":"And visibility was always what caused me stress is that at any one point, I didn't really know."},{"startTime":1706.15,"endTime":1713.99,"body":"That is a really hard part about running your own business. And I think the thing I really like"},{"startTime":1713.99,"endTime":1718.25,"body":"about profit first is I haven't done all the worksheets, but I have read the first part."},{"startTime":1720.03,"endTime":1725.31,"body":"Is that because everybody says, oh, like your accountant has that info or, but that is always"},{"startTime":1725.31,"endTime":1731.31,"body":"history. It is not telling you the money you have in your bank account right now. It's not"},{"startTime":1731.31,"endTime":1736.53,"body":"telling you how much budget you have to spend. It's not really telling you what's coming in or"},{"startTime":1736.53,"endTime":1741.99,"body":"out. And it's not giving you the information on which you can base a strategy. Yes. And that"},{"startTime":1741.99,"endTime":1747.31,"body":"is so your accounts and your bookkeeping are a historic record. And they're not really telling"},{"startTime":1747.31,"endTime":1754.09,"body":"you what you can do. But that mind shift, because I don't know about you, but I've been,"},{"startTime":1754.09,"endTime":1757.67,"body":"I've had things in my account before and they're like, you've made this much profit. And I'm like,"},{"startTime":1757.95,"endTime":1763.75,"body":"where is it? Because it's not in my bank account. Like, where did it go? And I know that's a really"},{"startTime":1763.75,"endTime":1770.29,"body":"common story amongst entrepreneurs. Like, we're not weird. And now you have to pay tax on the"},{"startTime":1770.29,"endTime":1774.13,"body":"money that you didn't know that you had or that you were supposed to have. How does that work?"},{"startTime":1774.85,"endTime":1780.59,"body":"So the profit first method is all about like the money you actually have to use and figuring out"},{"startTime":1780.59,"endTime":1785.67,"body":"to see that in a better way. Yeah. And to prioritize how you want to use that money as"},{"startTime":1785.67,"endTime":1790.99,"body":"well. So to make sure that you're, they call it like, well, in YNAB it's giving your dollar is"},{"startTime":1790.99,"endTime":1796.31,"body":"a job. Right. So you've got to give them a role. I mean, it's basically it's the jars. Right. So,"},{"startTime":1796.51,"endTime":1800.15,"body":"but digitally. And you don't have to go in and open for the profit first. You don't have to"},{"startTime":1800.15,"endTime":1803.93,"body":"go and open different actual bank accounts. So you can just sort of nominally have them."},{"startTime":1803.93,"endTime":1806.01,"body":"Yeah. My accountant really hated when I did that."},{"startTime":1806.01,"endTime":1811.61,"body":"Yeah. They're not fans. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So you don't have to, we should have talked about that"},{"startTime":1811.61,"endTime":1820.85,"body":"more. We got some time. Okay. So yeah, that I think getting your finances in order is key."},{"startTime":1821.01,"endTime":1825.05,"body":"I mean, you're not going to last 18 years. No, absolutely not. You don't have a financial plan."},{"startTime":1825.13,"endTime":1830.15,"body":"Like you can be as creative as you want. You can be, you can have the best product."},{"startTime":1830.33,"endTime":1832.81,"body":"Oh yeah. And tons of enthusiasm and customer service."},{"startTime":1833.65,"endTime":1837.93,"body":"And you can have a good following, but if you don't have the numbers and the money figured out,"},{"startTime":1838.25,"endTime":1841.73,"body":"it like doesn't matter. Yeah. Yeah. That's it. You're not going to be here tomorrow. So,"},{"startTime":1841.99,"endTime":1844.09,"body":"yeah. And we want to be here tomorrow. We definitely want to be here tomorrow."},{"startTime":1845.11,"endTime":1849.45,"body":"For multiple reasons. Absolutely. Because hair and chops are important. Yeah. Yeah. I don't,"},{"startTime":1849.49,"endTime":1854.23,"body":"I don't want to go back to working elsewhere. I think we're fundamentally unemployable."},{"startTime":1854.57,"endTime":1858.43,"body":"I was thinking about this. It's like, there's no way you ever go back. No,"},{"startTime":1858.43,"endTime":1866.21,"body":"no. I cannot personally emboss. Can't cope. Definitely not. Oh dear."},{"startTime":1867.33,"endTime":1874.73,"body":"You have also diversified quite a bit in what you do. I have. Well, yeah, you have a yarn shop."},{"startTime":1875.11,"endTime":1881.11,"body":"Yes. Yes. And you talked to us about teaching. I did. Yes. Yes. And then you guys have an"},{"startTime":1881.11,"endTime":1887.39,"body":"in-house hand dyed yarn brand. And you did run some events. Yes, we did. Yes."},{"startTime":1887.39,"endTime":1894.15,"body":"So that is diversification. Okay. Sometimes I don't like to think about it too much."},{"startTime":1895.23,"endTime":1900.59,"body":"Because it's a lot. So tell us why you have done all of these things."},{"startTime":1903.03,"endTime":1909.13,"body":"Okay. So back to the, just for the love of it a little bit. Well, the festival that we"},{"startTime":1909.13,"endTime":1916.45,"body":"ran definitely came out of that just desire to get people together. But the desire to get"},{"startTime":1916.45,"endTime":1924.93,"body":"them together here, like in Dublin. And yeah, I was working from home more with my kids. So"},{"startTime":1924.93,"endTime":1928.73,"body":"there was a little bit of a, you know, it made a lot more sense. It was something that I could do"},{"startTime":1929.19,"endTime":1933.37,"body":"from home and not have to be physically in the shop as much because the shop,"},{"startTime":1933.75,"endTime":1940.91,"body":"when I have small children and the shop is an hour long haul commute. So part of that was informed by,"},{"startTime":1940.91,"endTime":1948.59,"body":"well, here's something I can bring to the table. And from the hand dyed yarn perspective, like,"},{"startTime":1948.65,"endTime":1955.31,"body":"I mean, like Jenny came to us with that idea. So my sister, Jenny ended up working in the shop"},{"startTime":1955.31,"endTime":1960.39,"body":"one weekend because we were really short staffed and we just needed some help. And she wasn't in"},{"startTime":1960.39,"endTime":1965.97,"body":"the yarn world at all. And I don't know, what is it? 14 years later, maybe? Well it is because"},{"startTime":1965.97,"endTime":1973.15,"body":"I met Jenny in the shop when she was also just getting into knitting. I remember we would sort"},{"startTime":1973.15,"endTime":1978.45,"body":"of bounce off each other a little bit. Like, I don't know what I'm doing. Well, we can do it"},{"startTime":1978.45,"endTime":1987.25,"body":"together. But Jenny's background was that she used to, she trained as a colorist in hair salons. So"},{"startTime":1987.25,"endTime":1990.67,"body":"there's a lot of the technical knowledge there that comes to it. And she is definitely like,"},{"startTime":1990.67,"endTime":1999.97,"body":"she's super creative. I've always liked making, but she has this like affinity for color and just,"},{"startTime":2000.13,"endTime":2006.39,"body":"yeah. I mean, there's some really like unusual colors up here on the wall. I don't think you"},{"startTime":2006.39,"endTime":2011.99,"body":"can see all of them, but yeah, these are not like your standard. No, she's got this. There's"},{"startTime":2011.99,"endTime":2015.77,"body":"literal, there's moments of magic, definitely. She kind of bring up, she's been developing some"},{"startTime":2015.77,"endTime":2020.27,"body":"colors recently as well. And like, she's like, Oh, I love that one. And you just kind of go,"},{"startTime":2020.31,"endTime":2026.61,"body":"how do you see that? But also the technical side of it as well, because it's not just"},{"startTime":2027.05,"endTime":2032.43,"body":"the, you can't just throw a bit of color. She has to understand how different acid levels,"},{"startTime":2032.61,"endTime":2036.71,"body":"water levels, like she tells me about it. And I think she's let me dye yarn once."},{"startTime":2037.79,"endTime":2043.63,"body":"And I did used to dye yarn actually, but back in the, we used to do Dublin Dye Company when we"},{"startTime":2043.63,"endTime":2050.11,"body":"were in Blackrock. I, a pair of socks out of that yarn. Yes, piece of history, piece of history."},{"startTime":2050.929,"endTime":2054.75,"body":"So, but it was kind of a community based thing because it was a couple of us who did it."},{"startTime":2055.03,"endTime":2061.989,"body":"We rented a, there was a room above the garden station, the old garden station above us with"},{"startTime":2061.989,"endTime":2066.77,"body":"the water and space to run workshops there. And then we started using the kitchen for dyeing."},{"startTime":2067.29,"endTime":2073.87,"body":"We had no clue what we were doing. We had zero clue, but we had fun. And so it was myself and"},{"startTime":2073.87,"endTime":2079.13,"body":"Alana and Yvonne and Yvonne, like Sweetie then, she kept it going for a number of years after"},{"startTime":2079.13,"endTime":2084.83,"body":"that as well. So, but yes, so as diversification, yes, I just like to try new things."},{"startTime":2089.53,"endTime":2094.59,"body":"And just briefly, are you happy to tell us why Woolen is no longer?"},{"startTime":2094.59,"endTime":2102.01,"body":"Yeah, no, I've got several reasons. I mean, it's not no one thing. So obviously when COVID came"},{"startTime":2102.01,"endTime":2107.03,"body":"around and we were due to hold the festival in June, 2020, March, 2020, everything shut down."},{"startTime":2108.11,"endTime":2113.29,"body":"Speaking of, I actually came across a promo video that we had made for that event."},{"startTime":2113.53,"endTime":2119.09,"body":"Very recently, I was like going through something and I was like, what is this video? And I watched"},{"startTime":2119.09,"endTime":2127.09,"body":"it and I was like, oh, promo video we'd like recorded. I will tell you, my heart was broken."},{"startTime":2127.37,"endTime":2134.07,"body":"We had put so much work into that already. I mean, like events like this, they really,"},{"startTime":2134.39,"endTime":2140.53,"body":"they take nine months or more to really bring together. So we had had a lot had gone into it."},{"startTime":2140.67,"endTime":2144.91,"body":"So it was, it was heartbreaking. And for event organizers everywhere of all different types,"},{"startTime":2145.75,"endTime":2152.49,"body":"it hit hard. And my son was also in hospital quite ill at the time. And I was trying to manage all of"},{"startTime":2152.49,"endTime":2160.49,"body":"the fallout from everything. And anyway, that's on the personal note. But we did still want to"},{"startTime":2160.49,"endTime":2164.13,"body":"bring it back. We postponed it for a year. Of course, a year later, things still weren't very"},{"startTime":2164.13,"endTime":2170.73,"body":"clear about safety levels. And then when it came back around to two years later, the Warnier Crane"},{"startTime":2170.73,"endTime":2175.73,"body":"had broken out, which you wouldn't think would have an impact on the festival. But it didn't"},{"startTime":2175.73,"endTime":2182.37,"body":"because in Ireland, we took in, rightly, quite a high number of refugees from the war. And they"},{"startTime":2182.37,"endTime":2185.69,"body":"were generally being accommodated in hotels. We didn't really, we don't have the emergency"},{"startTime":2185.69,"endTime":2191.57,"body":"accommodation for that. So for a festival that's an international festival, you asked for briefly."},{"startTime":2193.39,"endTime":2194.37,"body":"I didn't know this part of the story."},{"startTime":2194.53,"endTime":2199.63,"body":"Yeah. You need to have that accommodation easily accessible and affordable so that"},{"startTime":2199.63,"endTime":2205.27,"body":"people can come and shop and enjoy themselves and still have some money to spend with the vendors."},{"startTime":2206.65,"endTime":2214.75,"body":"And so that was another blow. And Brexit, because our pool of vendors is absolutely"},{"startTime":2215.53,"endTime":2223.83,"body":"among more experienced operators like ourselves, but some smaller indie operators. And there has"},{"startTime":2223.83,"endTime":2229.61,"body":"been, even when the UK was in the EU, paperwork and headaches in relation to-"},{"startTime":2229.61,"endTime":2234.41,"body":"To VAT registrations and all of that, which we were absolutely helping people out with as much"},{"startTime":2234.41,"endTime":2238.69,"body":"as we could from the role of the organisers. But to add in-"},{"startTime":2238.69,"endTime":2240.17,"body":"Just VAT deregistered in Ireland."},{"startTime":2240.49,"endTime":2240.97,"body":"Just, yeah."},{"startTime":2240.97,"endTime":2241.97,"body":"Like three months ago."},{"startTime":2242.03,"endTime":2242.53,"body":"There you go."},{"startTime":2242.81,"endTime":2244.69,"body":"Oh, that's woollen really over then."},{"startTime":2244.71,"endTime":2249.05,"body":"Yeah. Well, I had to sit there and I was like, okay, do I still need this advent task of like"},{"startTime":2249.05,"endTime":2250.15,"body":"every three months-"},{"startTime":2250.15,"endTime":2250.39,"body":"Zero."},{"startTime":2250.41,"endTime":2250.79,"body":"Zero."},{"startTime":2251.01,"endTime":2251.93,"body":"Zero. Yeah."},{"startTime":2252.11,"endTime":2253.03,"body":"I just thought, I don't."},{"startTime":2253.29,"endTime":2255.39,"body":"Well, we've had to register for UK VAT."},{"startTime":2255.39,"endTime":2263.97,"body":"Yeah. So, but yeah, that was so, I mean, there's three prongs really. So it was sort of cut after"},{"startTime":2263.97,"endTime":2269.75,"body":"cut after cut and we just had to kind of go, wow, look, we can certainly consider running"},{"startTime":2269.75,"endTime":2278.17,"body":"smaller events in the future with Irish vendors. But I know that it's just a level of commitment"},{"startTime":2278.17,"endTime":2283.91,"body":"and cost and time and paperwork for UK vendors to come over here. The Knitting and Stitching"},{"startTime":2283.91,"endTime":2289.59,"body":"show, which is organised by a large events management company, doesn't happen in Dublin"},{"startTime":2289.59,"endTime":2291.19,"body":"anymore. They've moved it to Belfast."},{"startTime":2291.53,"endTime":2293.53,"body":"Yeah. Well, because they're a UK based-"},{"startTime":2293.53,"endTime":2294.33,"body":"They are a UK based company."},{"startTime":2294.59,"endTime":2299.25,"body":"They're owned by one of the publishers now. I don't remember which might be future."},{"startTime":2300.47,"endTime":2301.79,"body":"That sounds familiar."},{"startTime":2301.97,"endTime":2302.61,"body":"I think it's future."},{"startTime":2302.89,"endTime":2303.75,"body":"Okay. Yeah."},{"startTime":2303.95,"endTime":2304.35,"body":"It could be."},{"startTime":2304.67,"endTime":2307.79,"body":"So, but you also kind of feel if they can't figure it."},{"startTime":2309.45,"endTime":2310.55,"body":"So, we try our best."},{"startTime":2310.57,"endTime":2311.61,"body":"Well, there's a lot of moving parts."},{"startTime":2311.77,"endTime":2311.93,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2311.99,"endTime":2313.69,"body":"And a lot of logistics and a lot of-"},{"startTime":2313.69,"endTime":2315.21,"body":"Management of people."},{"startTime":2315.75,"endTime":2322.01,"body":"I said, Aisling, we were at Barcelona Knits Festival. Just, I'm not sure when this is"},{"startTime":2322.01,"endTime":2327.73,"body":"going out, but it was on quite recently and this morning. So, Aisling does a lot of our"},{"startTime":2327.73,"endTime":2333.21,"body":"customer service, like the messages through the website and chat. And a lovely person"},{"startTime":2333.21,"endTime":2336.83,"body":"had asked, are you planning on having Wollin again? Because I'm visiting Ireland and I"},{"startTime":2336.83,"endTime":2342.91,"body":"would time it to coincide with that. And I mean, usually at this stage, Aisling would"},{"startTime":2342.91,"endTime":2347.27,"body":"go, I'm terribly sorry. And it is lovely that people are asking. And I was like, how"},{"startTime":2347.27,"endTime":2351.15,"body":"come you sent that to me? Because she sent it on to me. And she says, just checking before"},{"startTime":2351.15,"endTime":2357.07,"body":"I say no. And I was like, I thought we'd had this conversation several times. And she"},{"startTime":2357.07,"endTime":2359.01,"body":"says, yeah, but I saw a glint in your eye in Barcelona."},{"startTime":2359.69,"endTime":2359.89,"body":"Nah."},{"startTime":2361.63,"endTime":2365.41,"body":"It is though. Sometimes your team members, you've like, that has happened to me too."},{"startTime":2365.45,"endTime":2369.17,"body":"I'm like, no, this is not what we're doing. We've closed the door. And then you're like,"},{"startTime":2369.17,"endTime":2373.17,"body":"yeah, but. And then suddenly we're doing something again."},{"startTime":2373.37,"endTime":2379.61,"body":"Yeah. Yeah. It's a not, it's never say never. But currently, no. There's too many things"},{"startTime":2379.61,"endTime":2384.99,"body":"working against us, unfortunately. And the older version of me, which would not have"},{"startTime":2384.99,"endTime":2386.69,"body":"been so focused on the financials."},{"startTime":2386.69,"endTime":2387.11,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":2387.29,"endTime":2388.45,"body":"Would have done it for the love of it."},{"startTime":2388.93,"endTime":2392.23,"body":"A love that you have evolved in that way. That's great."},{"startTime":2392.61,"endTime":2394.01,"body":"You know, makes other people sad."},{"startTime":2394.01,"endTime":2402.13,"body":"Well, yeah, but again, an event like that has to make sense for everybody. And it's"},{"startTime":2402.13,"endTime":2406.51,"body":"not just that it has to make sense for you and your team, but like all of the vendors,"},{"startTime":2406.69,"endTime":2408.13,"body":"like there's so much pressure."},{"startTime":2408.37,"endTime":2408.95,"body":"Oh my gosh."},{"startTime":2409.43,"endTime":2416.21,"body":"On the organisers, yeah. Because if vendors don't make money, they're really upset."},{"startTime":2416.97,"endTime":2422.67,"body":"And I like, I felt that so hard where it was like, people, I know the effort and the work"},{"startTime":2422.67,"endTime":2427.03,"body":"and the time and the sleepless nights the vendors have in preparing for events like"},{"startTime":2427.03,"endTime":2432.01,"body":"that. And sometimes maybe it's better to be an organiser of an event like that where"},{"startTime":2432.01,"endTime":2432.91,"body":"you've never been."},{"startTime":2433.17,"endTime":2435.67,"body":"Yeah. Or you don't personally know people."},{"startTime":2435.93,"endTime":2439.75,"body":"Yeah. Yeah. But you feel a lot of responsibility, a huge amount."},{"startTime":2440.39,"endTime":2442.95,"body":"Yeah. Yeah. I mean, your band was broken into."},{"startTime":2443.55,"endTime":2443.87,"body":"Oh yeah."},{"startTime":2444.25,"endTime":2444.97,"body":"Oh my God."},{"startTime":2445.77,"endTime":2446.67,"body":"Oh my God."},{"startTime":2446.69,"endTime":2448.07,"body":"I never actually told that story publicly."},{"startTime":2448.23,"endTime":2449.47,"body":"Have you not? Oh, sorry. I'll say nothing."},{"startTime":2449.47,"endTime":2455.65,"body":"Totally fine. We can say a side note into that. That was the second one."},{"startTime":2455.65,"endTime":2456.09,"body":"Second one, yeah."},{"startTime":2457.11,"endTime":2464.03,"body":"We were, it was the end of the show. We were packing up at a hotel. We'd packed up the"},{"startTime":2464.03,"endTime":2468.81,"body":"entire van and I closed the door, went to lock it and the lock wasn't there anymore."},{"startTime":2469.33,"endTime":2469.57,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":2469.97,"endTime":2474.39,"body":"So someone had broken into the van hoping something was in there, but the van had been"},{"startTime":2474.39,"endTime":2475.81,"body":"empty when they broke into it."},{"startTime":2475.87,"endTime":2476.29,"body":"Thankfully."},{"startTime":2477.29,"endTime":2482.81,"body":"I actually, because obviously I unlocked it to start with. So I think it got broken into"},{"startTime":2482.81,"endTime":2483.07,"body":"somehow."},{"startTime":2483.55,"endTime":2484.31,"body":"Like really quickly."},{"startTime":2484.97,"endTime":2485.67,"body":"As we were."},{"startTime":2486.35,"endTime":2487.45,"body":"It was getting dark."},{"startTime":2487.89,"endTime":2490.83,"body":"Packing up and stuff. So there might've been like some shelving in there that they didn't"},{"startTime":2490.83,"endTime":2496.95,"body":"want. And then we had to, because we couldn't drive it, the door didn't stay closed. It"},{"startTime":2496.95,"endTime":2500.25,"body":"didn't stay secured. We had to unload the entire van back into the hotel."},{"startTime":2500.27,"endTime":2503.97,"body":"After a whole show weekend. After packing everything up."},{"startTime":2503.97,"endTime":2510.97,"body":"Thankfully the bar was full of helpful people and all the knitters came out and unloaded"},{"startTime":2510.97,"endTime":2511.27,"body":"the van."},{"startTime":2511.29,"endTime":2511.91,"body":"There was a human chain."},{"startTime":2512.03,"endTime":2515.89,"body":"There was. There was a human chain of like boxes and grid wall and this, that and the"},{"startTime":2515.89,"endTime":2516.13,"body":"other."},{"startTime":2517.31,"endTime":2519.95,"body":"And the hotel gave us a room to start getting in. They were really good."},{"startTime":2520.21,"endTime":2520.89,"body":"They were really good."},{"startTime":2520.99,"endTime":2524.57,"body":"I just remember you having a moment of going like, Stephen West is just coordinating people"},{"startTime":2524.57,"endTime":2525.75,"body":"to lift boxes."},{"startTime":2526.99,"endTime":2531.79,"body":"Well, and that was the thing. Like someone basically kind of, I was like, the police"},{"startTime":2531.79,"endTime":2535.69,"body":"were there. I was talking to people and I turned around and like someone had just gone"},{"startTime":2535.69,"endTime":2541.07,"body":"into the bar and said, like, they need help. Like everybody out. And all of a sudden there"},{"startTime":2541.07,"endTime":2542.07,"body":"were like 30 people."},{"startTime":2542.23,"endTime":2547.13,"body":"It was actually a wonderful moment. When you look in amongst all of that and you look at"},{"startTime":2547.13,"endTime":2550.75,"body":"it now, it was just, that's, that's the yarn industry at its best."},{"startTime":2550.77,"endTime":2556.19,"body":"It absolutely is. And they were lovely, but the rental car company wasn't."},{"startTime":2556.29,"endTime":2556.87,"body":"I remember."},{"startTime":2557.01,"endTime":2560.47,"body":"Yeah. So we obviously couldn't drive the van home back to the UK."},{"startTime":2561.33,"endTime":2562.69,"body":"This was pre-Brexit."},{"startTime":2563.19,"endTime":2563.37,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":2563.49,"endTime":2568.21,"body":"And I spent the whole next day on the phone with the rental car company basically telling"},{"startTime":2568.21,"endTime":2572.89,"body":"me I wasn't in Europe or something like that. And I was trying to argue geography with them."},{"startTime":2573.27,"endTime":2573.75,"body":"How fun."},{"startTime":2573.93,"endTime":2575.97,"body":"Fun. Exactly what you needed on top of everything else."},{"startTime":2575.99,"endTime":2580.97,"body":"Yeah. And we needed to get back. We had like a ferry booked and we lost our entire like"},{"startTime":2580.97,"endTime":2583.29,"body":"fun day in Dublin for this, but that's okay."},{"startTime":2583.79,"endTime":2583.93,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2584.39,"endTime":2585.19,"body":"And the solution."},{"startTime":2585.19,"endTime":2585.93,"body":"You had to drive to Belfast."},{"startTime":2585.93,"endTime":2592.07,"body":"Yeah. So the solution that the rental car company had for me was we could pick up a car at Dublin"},{"startTime":2592.07,"endTime":2592.49,"body":"airport."},{"startTime":2592.81,"endTime":2592.99,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2593.27,"endTime":2600.49,"body":"Drive to Belfast where they would give me a car, not a van, a car. We would drive back"},{"startTime":2600.49,"endTime":2604.63,"body":"down to Dublin, return the first car. So I ended up with like some sort of an SUV."},{"startTime":2605.39,"endTime":2605.75,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":2605.93,"endTime":2606.67,"body":"So not a van."},{"startTime":2607.01,"endTime":2607.27,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2607.43,"endTime":2609.15,"body":"We left like furniture behind."},{"startTime":2609.35,"endTime":2610.25,"body":"I remember that. Yeah."},{"startTime":2610.25,"endTime":2615.17,"body":"We took the yarn, a couple of people who'd still had like space in their cars and vans"},{"startTime":2615.17,"endTime":2623.15,"body":"heading back near me in the UK had taken a few things. And then, yeah, we got back and"},{"startTime":2623.15,"endTime":2628.91,"body":"the rental car company was basically like, I mean, it was the manager at that enterprise"},{"startTime":2628.91,"endTime":2634.13,"body":"that like really did my head in too. Cause she just, I just got a load of shit from her"},{"startTime":2634.13,"endTime":2641.15,"body":"actually about the whole thing. But that event meant that we lost money on the event."},{"startTime":2641.27,"endTime":2641.51,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2641.75,"endTime":2643.43,"body":"Right. And I mean, that's nobody's fault."},{"startTime":2643.43,"endTime":2648.57,"body":"No, no, no. But, but the, but the thing is as an, as the organizer, like stuff like that"},{"startTime":2648.57,"endTime":2653.59,"body":"happens. Oh my God. Well, I, okay. I feel it. Maybe not everybody would. Um, I mean,"},{"startTime":2653.61,"endTime":2657.29,"body":"we had, uh, I think in year one, uh, somebody's boxes didn't show up."},{"startTime":2657.41,"endTime":2658.19,"body":"Oh yes. I remember that."},{"startTime":2658.21,"endTime":2660.01,"body":"Was that travel knitter? I think."},{"startTime":2660.47,"endTime":2661.15,"body":"It was travel knitter."},{"startTime":2661.19,"endTime":2664.41,"body":"It was travel knitter, you know, and then again, people rally around and they sent,"},{"startTime":2664.51,"endTime":2667.93,"body":"you know, say, go, you know, go buy something on their website and what, and they do do"},{"startTime":2667.93,"endTime":2671.47,"body":"that. And it's, uh, it's amazing. And it's just completely not their fault."},{"startTime":2672.67,"endTime":2676.43,"body":"Yeah. It's really bad. And there's like literally nothing to do about that. And,"},{"startTime":2676.81,"endTime":2681.37,"body":"you know, also if we weren't as robust a business as we were, that could have really,"},{"startTime":2681.57,"endTime":2685.69,"body":"really hurt. I mean, it wasn't great. I'm not saying like, yeah, I can just go to events and"},{"startTime":2685.69,"endTime":2692.31,"body":"lose money, but, uh, no, it's, it's hard. And it's hard in the, in the way that exams are hard,"},{"startTime":2692.31,"endTime":2698.71,"body":"because it all comes down to what happens on those days. Um, and nine months of planning"},{"startTime":2698.71,"endTime":2706.21,"body":"and work and stuff can be, um, wiped out by bad weather or by a public transport strike or,"},{"startTime":2706.37,"endTime":2707.85,"body":"right. Yeah. So why did I do this?"},{"startTime":2709.09,"endTime":2710.29,"body":"It's okay. You're not doing it anymore."},{"startTime":2712.95,"endTime":2716.53,"body":"But it's, you know, it is, it's, it's, it's the old end of the day things,"},{"startTime":2716.61,"endTime":2717.87,"body":"but at the same time, it's such a buzz."},{"startTime":2717.87,"endTime":2723.69,"body":"It's such a buzz. Yeah. And we both love attending events and bending at them."},{"startTime":2724.41,"endTime":2727.49,"body":"Absolutely. Yeah. When it goes right, it's magic. It is magic."},{"startTime":2727.67,"endTime":2730.29,"body":"And you get to see all the people. I mean, that's the thing, right? Like you get to be"},{"startTime":2730.29,"endTime":2735.59,"body":"out there with customers and community and that's the best part. So, but I think it's fine."},{"startTime":2737.65,"endTime":2744.53,"body":"I'm not driving any more vans to Dublin. Not from the UK. Um, I mean, we could definitely"},{"startTime":2744.53,"endTime":2749.23,"body":"waffle on for absolutely ever here, but we probably want Guinness and dinner."},{"startTime":2749.83,"endTime":2757.77,"body":"We do. So I will ask you one last question. And that is if you could give someone starting a"},{"startTime":2757.77,"endTime":2761.17,"body":"new retail business, not necessarily a yarn shop, but a new retail business,"},{"startTime":2761.35,"endTime":2767.09,"body":"one piece of advice that like you wish you had earlier, one piece of knowledge, maybe what would"},{"startTime":2767.09,"endTime":2773.53,"body":"it be? That's toughie. I think funnily enough, and I have been thinking about this a little"},{"startTime":2773.53,"endTime":2780.31,"body":"recently because we're, you know, at 18 years, you start to like, look back. Um, I think don't"},{"startTime":2780.31,"endTime":2786.83,"body":"go in underfunded. Yes. Even though that's exactly what we did. We, yeah, we did what everybody does."},{"startTime":2786.99,"endTime":2793.97,"body":"Yeah. Um, but we, looking back at those 18 years, I think maybe we could have gotten"},{"startTime":2793.97,"endTime":2800.41,"body":"where we are now sooner. Um, having that little bit of faith in ourselves, maybe that we were"},{"startTime":2800.41,"endTime":2809.55,"body":"missing. Um, so yeah, it takes more money than you think. Um, it takes a lot of your time and"},{"startTime":2809.55,"endTime":2813.27,"body":"energy and, you know, the, the classic theme of, Hey, I gave up working nine to five so I could"},{"startTime":2813.27,"endTime":2820.23,"body":"work 24 seven. It's all consuming. Um, but there's so much, so much good in this and so much worthwhile"},{"startTime":2820.23,"endTime":2824.77,"body":"and you can, you can build your own community, which is something that a lot of people, um,"},{"startTime":2825.11,"endTime":2828.71,"body":"are missing there, you know, and we need that. So, but yeah, just,"},{"startTime":2829.29,"endTime":2833.51,"body":"just try not to go in underfunded. Um, and by underfunded, do you mean like,"},{"startTime":2833.71,"endTime":2839.37,"body":"save up longer of your own personal money to put in or like, don't be so fearful of taking out a"},{"startTime":2839.37,"endTime":2844.57,"body":"bigger loan or like finding funding? Find, like finding funding is a big thing. And I, I, uh,"},{"startTime":2844.57,"endTime":2848.47,"body":"there were definitely supports out there from government organizations, at least in Ireland,"},{"startTime":2848.65,"endTime":2852.53,"body":"that I wasn't aware of at the time. Yeah, you have like, really good support here in Ireland. Yes."},{"startTime":2852.79,"endTime":2856.87,"body":"I know, I think Scotland and Wales, um, have similar stuff. England doesn't."},{"startTime":2857.43,"endTime":2863.37,"body":"I find that so crazy. Yeah. Um, but, but yeah, like really dig into your research. Like,"},{"startTime":2863.45,"endTime":2869.63,"body":"don't be afraid to ask for help. I was so much like, what, feeling like I was going to get found"},{"startTime":2869.63,"endTime":2875.49,"body":"out. Right. So I'm a total imposter. I just had to be over here in my corner doing a thing. And then"},{"startTime":2875.49,"endTime":2881.31,"body":"like, and so much more good has come my way as I like put myself out there a little bit more."},{"startTime":2881.81,"endTime":2886.99,"body":"And, uh, yeah. And I said to you, like, was it this time last year? I was like,"},{"startTime":2887.15,"endTime":2892.43,"body":"terrified of networking. I can't do this. Literally terrified of networking. And,"},{"startTime":2892.51,"endTime":2896.61,"body":"and that's something that I've like, just dove into so much this year."},{"startTime":2897.01,"endTime":2902.37,"body":"Had some incredible experiences. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, yeah, you've got to keep doing what you're,"},{"startTime":2902.61,"endTime":2908.79,"body":"what you feel like you're into it anyway. Yeah. No. Um, and if you're taking out a bank loan,"},{"startTime":2908.79,"endTime":2913.77,"body":"take out what you figured. Yeah. Yeah. Take out, take out what they'll give you. Yeah. Take out"},{"startTime":2913.77,"endTime":2918.27,"body":"what they'll give you. Yeah. Um, because you will need it. Yeah. At the cost of everything goes up."},{"startTime":2918.69,"endTime":2924.35,"body":"There's all sorts of omphacines, even development of here, you know, that they're just going to crop"},{"startTime":2924.35,"endTime":2928.93,"body":"up. So you've got to, you've got to factor that in. I think the thing I was, um, most surprised"},{"startTime":2928.93,"endTime":2935.19,"body":"by when I was like, I had done budgets. I'd like, I'd put all things in spreadsheets. Um, and then"},{"startTime":2935.19,"endTime":2939.99,"body":"I went to start my ordering, right. I had a budget for things and I got the needles. Oh yeah."},{"startTime":2940.15,"endTime":2944.91,"body":"And I was like, that is so much more than I expected it to be. Cause you need them in this"},{"startTime":2944.91,"endTime":2949.83,"body":"length and that length and the other size and that material. And yeah. And, uh, so there's always"},{"startTime":2949.83,"endTime":2954.61,"body":"something that pops up that is more than you think it's going to be. A hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah."},{"startTime":2954.67,"endTime":2959.79,"body":"There's all those omphacines, but you know, you've just, you gotta, you gotta dive on in there."},{"startTime":2960.63,"endTime":2963.19,"body":"It's totally fun running a retail shop, isn't it?"},{"startTime":2963.19,"endTime":2968.53,"body":"It is for sure. For sure. And ask, just, just do that thing. Ask for help and you know, um,"},{"startTime":2968.81,"endTime":2975.07,"body":"but don't be afraid to admit you don't know. Don't be like me. We all do that though. Yeah,"},{"startTime":2975.29,"endTime":2983.29,"body":"for sure. For sure. Yeah. Okay. Well, um, thank you so much for joining me today and sharing all"},{"startTime":2983.29,"endTime":2988.19,"body":"about your business. Um, I hope it's useful to other people out there and you know, the yarn"},{"startTime":2988.19,"endTime":2993.29,"body":"industry absolutely needs more people to, to come on and in. We need more knitters. We need more"},{"startTime":2993.29,"endTime":3000.05,"body":"knitters. And, uh, yes. And, and just more people diving, diving into the industry. So, yeah. Um,"},{"startTime":3000.27,"endTime":3005.81,"body":"so you can follow Lisa at thisisknit on Instagram. All of her handles and stuff will be down below."},{"startTime":3009.17,"endTime":3014.63,"body":"And don't forget to like comment and subscribe to our channel and share us with your friends."},{"startTime":3014.63,"endTime":3019.09,"body":"What Carmen's doing is great. Keep following. See you next time."}]}