Social entrepreneur shares how businesses can help shape society | Daniel Shakhani

Join us for an enlightening conversation with Daniel Shakhani, co-founder of Salary Finance, as we explore the power of purpose and how businesses can positively influence society.

Daniel shares insights on leadership, trust-building, and collaborative efforts, highlighting the importance of honoring commitments.

He also discusses his involvement with initiatives like the Financial Inclusion Alliance and the Global Financial Literacy Initiative, providing a blueprint for scalable business solutions.

Tune in for inspiration, enlightenment, and actionable insights on driving societal change through purpose-driven initiatives.

🔗 CONNECT WITH DANIEL

🐦 Twitter - https://twitter.com/danielshakhani
🎥 YouTube Channel - https://www.youtube.com/@SalaryFinance
👤 LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-shakhani-57056a1/
💻 Daniel Shakhani's Website: https://www.salaryfinance.com/uk/

🔗 CONNECT WITH ALEXANDER

👥 Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/mccobin/
🐦 Twitter - https://twitter.com/amccobin
📸 Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/mccobin/

🚀 LIBERTY VENTURES

Liberty Ventures is an ecosystem of purpose-driven investors and entrepreneurs aligned on advancing a free and prosperous future.

Join our Angel Investor Network or submit your startup here: https://www.libertyventures.vc/investing

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

We're in a time where companies have immense influence to be able to drive not just societal change in their local communities, but well beyond that. But we should first and foremost deal with, as they say, charity starts at home and then it starts broadly in helping others, your friends, the local community and further a feel. I do think every single person, whether it's a company or an individual, has to really ask themselves what is their purpose and what is the cause they care about most, and by doing so it helps drive everything else you do. Your values drive what you do and your principles drive what you do.

Speaker 2: 0:32

Welcome everyone to the Liberty Ventures podcast. This is Alexander McOwen, founder and general partner of Liberty Ventures, and I am so excited for us to continue building this ecosystem of purpose driven investors, entrepreneurs and business leaders committed to advancing a free and prosperous future. And today I'm talking with my good friend, colleague and partner in so many ways, the amazing Daniel Chakani, who the way I'm going to introduce him is that there are a lot of people in the world who will talk a big game, who say that they know a lot of people and that they can deliver all these things and never follow through. What I love about Daniel is that he's one of the few people who actually follows through. He walks the walk in a way that few other people do. And, daniel, I've just had such an amazing time getting to know you the last few years and I'm so excited about all the things we're doing together, we're going to talk about and what you're doing to advance a free and prosperous future. Thanks so much for taking the time to chat with us today.

Speaker 1: 1:28

Alex, it's an absolute pleasure to be on here and thank you to you, the team and all your ecosystem for taking the time to even listen to this. I'm grateful for it, and, if I can share some snippets and insights that are valuable to you all, I'm delighted to be part of the journey with you.

Speaker 2: 1:42

Let's start at the beginning. To provide context for this conversation, I'd love for you to just share your story with everyone for the first couple of minutes. What's led to who you are and what you do today?

Speaker 1: 1:53

Sure, I'm delighted to do so. So my story starts on the sell side of investment banking in an American investment bank Many of you know it's Goldman Sachs. I had spent the first three years of my career there and very quickly transitioned actually to realizing the difference between American investment banks and UK investment banks. I transferred over to Royal Bank of Scotland, which has really been branded as Nat West, and my passion very quickly was to drive incremental change in whatever initiatives the managing directors or the business leaders were working on. That was actually Alex. What I realized pretty much was my superpower very quickly is find ways to accelerate other people's success, because their success is your success. So I very quickly transitioned to actually studying in the States at Harvard Business School. I really wanted to get a broader perspective from different cultures, different backgrounds and industries and I tried to bring those lessons back into my business and our workings. And then I left the sell side, went to work for a single family office which I was on the board of and subsequently went into building a company which called Family Office Network, which I sold to Euromoney part of Daily Mail General Trust and worked very closely with the Melkka Institute on that initiative. And then going on to work for three iconic individuals. I worked with Ryan Kavanaugh, one of the Forbes 30 under 30 billionaires, built a company called Relativity Media and we put together a joint venture with Laxmi Mital, the Steel Magnet BFU in the media space. And then I worked for the Musk family. I was directly an advisor to Elon's brother for two years, kimball, and worked with them across initiatives with Tesla, square Roots and some of the other initiatives that they're involved in, before starting in 2015,.

Speaker 1: 3:34

A company called Salary Finance with the former head of Google and essentially was a partner at PA Consulting, alex. So that's a very quick, potted history. Now, if you look at kind of where we are today a few different hats I wear, but it's important to just kind of break that down for the listeners that they understand. Salary Finance is a company. Today is the one of the 19th fastest growing companies in the UK. It's focused on financial wellness for employees. So we're a service, a benefit that supports employees and their employees, and it's been a tremendous journey.

Speaker 1: 4:05

We've been backed by Legal in General, the largest UK asset manager insurance company, experian, where we created a new business called Work Report with them, and then subsequently Goldman Sachs, following the merger with a company called Neighbor in the UK a few years back and originally our original backers, who really believed in the idea from day one of being tremendous partners to us with Blenheim-Charcot, which is really a, I would say, a family office combined with a tech accelerator scale up operation A venture builder is the way they call themselves and they've been a tremendous partner to us. So that's kind of a high level of the journey. Alex, I hope that's helpful.

Speaker 2: 4:41

That really illustrates just how impressive your professional background is and just what you've already accomplished and what you're set up to do. And I also know that you are an incredibly heart driven individual and leader, that you're very purpose driven behind all of this. So I'm wondering if you can share a little bit more about what's really been your driving force behind your professional career and what you're trying to accomplish in making your world a better place through business, which I know is what drives you.

Speaker 1: 5:09

I think you've got to step back for a second and ask yourself the question look what's happening in the world today. Look at the data points, analyze them for yourself, when you start to realize there's a lot of concerning factors that that plane right. Whether it's the climate change, which will fundamentally lead to mass migration to new jurisdictions because people will be unable to live in certain parts of the world, whether it's the shift towards more of a cashless society, which ties into my work around financial inclusion, which we can talk about in a moment, or even if you look at the factor around purpose and linking back to people's purpose and how they think about helping society as part of their work day to day, we fundamentally have a more polarized society than we've ever had. This is how I've been alive and I can remember, and I think that in a digital generation where I'm very concerned, as I think many parents would be, about the next generation today, I feel that it's up to us to ensure we make a real difference while we can. I think there's a window of opportunity in our current lifetime today and I would say that's the next five to 10 years, particularly as we've seen in the AI acceleration, the various other technologies to really be able to reverse some of the biggest pandemics within the pandemic that we have seen. And that's what drives me.

Speaker 1: 6:23

I think anyone who has genuineness about how they operate as a leader, but also in terms of what they do within the business the colleagues, coworkers, employees, however you want to describe it will absolutely see that, and they want to be working with people today that really are genuine and sincere.

Speaker 1: 6:39

So the way I've built trust to your earlier point, when you introduced me with your kind introduction, has been honoring what I've said I can do. And if I can deliver on what I said I can do, you build trust and you work your way up the ladder to work with more and more influential people. So my heart and soul has been in making a difference in people's lives, whether it's not one life or if it's multiple lives. For me it's about making a difference and feeling you genuinely left this planet in a better place, and I must say it's an uphill struggle because there's a lot of wins against us and we've got to do the best we can to collaborate with each other, because unless we work in teams as we're working together, alex and we'll talk about what we're doing in order to achieve that change, we're not going to see the impact that we need to see, and that's really the heart of why I operate the way I do.

Speaker 2: 7:24

There's so much to unpack there, and one thing I want to just tease out is you identified a number of trends that you see taking place in the world right now and specifically identified ways to and get to use business to address them, and you mentioned the shift to a cashless society, the more digital society and financial inclusion becoming something that has become a major issue for you, and working with salary finance and the Financial Inclusion Alliance in order to address it as just a great illustration for both investors and entrepreneurs, what to pay attention to. What are the changes going on in the world that business is able to address and actually help solve in a lot of ways, and I'd love for you to just spend a little time talking about salary finance and the Financial Inclusion Alliance and what you're doing with that, based on the changes that you're seeing right now.

Speaker 1: 8:13

Yeah, I think look back at the Victorian times, right, if you look at how society operated, fundamentally, companies would support local communities with various initiatives that they could. We're in a time where companies have immense influence to be able to drive not just societal change in their local communities, but well beyond that. But we should first and foremost deal with, as they say, charity starts at home and then it starts broadly in helping others your friends, the local community and further afield. I do think every single person, whether it's a company or an individual, has to really ask themselves what is their purpose and what is the cause they care about most, and by doing so, it helps drive everything else you do, your values drive what you do and your principles drive what you do. Ray Dalio wrote a great book of principles for those who've read it, and I think it just illustrates very much what we should all be doing, which is agree your principles, make sure you live by them, because it drives the broader initiatives you agree to say yes or no to.

Speaker 1: 9:08

That ties broadly into the Financial Inclusion Initiative, because I launched it back in 2018, but it really got accelerated on the back of my brother-in-law's passing. He died of cancer in his late 40s a new endocrine cancer and I realized how difficult it was to organize his own financial situation. And so when we start to see challenges in life, they say through immense pain there is immense growth. And through what I've gone through, I've tended to look at how I can change society for the better. So the World Economic Forum back in January we launched a global campaign to reach a billion people. We partnered with Edelman, oliver Wyman, the Financial Times and the Lord Mayor of London, and the purpose of partnering with them is because they have influence, they have brands that could help us think through the strategy to be able to reach a billion people, and we started to think about how do we partner, even with the World Economic Forum and their Edison project, because it's aligned. So when we find common causes that we all care about, the power of the combination is far greater than obviously any individual on a say. So that's why I got involved with that and that nicely ties, if I may address at this point in the conversation, why I really got behind working, alex, with you and invite all the Liberty Ventures community to be part of this.

Speaker 1: 10:18

I realized pretty quickly in light of the fact that we have tremendous support from the Virgin Group. They're a client of salary finance, but also backer in the form of debt funding through Virgin Money. We wanted to team up with Richard Branson. We did, of course, the first event together, which was so successful.

Speaker 1: 10:32

I felt there was a real power in people going out of their comfort zones to NECA, which is a great location. It's just a unique location. There's nowhere like it on the planet to be able to really think about how they can drive an influence change together, and so that's really why I got behind Global Financial Literacy Initiative, which is a term we partnered with James Rose Bichon, former official at the White House, deputy chief of staff and works with the Singleton family and really looking at initiatives that have worked, which can scale. We don't need to reinvent the wheel. We can often look for what works and scale that, and so that's why I'm very proud to be involved with you, alex, and the Global Financial Literacy Initiative, and working with Richard to co-host this event on the 3rd to the 6th of January next year.

Speaker 2: 11:12

This is the perfect illustration of how you're one of those people who walks the walk, not just talks the talk. And this is context for everyone around Principal Business Summit that we're organizing in January at Necker Island, richard Branson's personal home. For years when I was running Conscious Capitalism, people would always say we needed to get Richard involved in conscious capitals, we need to do something with Richard or Virgin and and talk and talk about how important that was, but wouldn't come with any specific plans for how to do so. Or they would say they might have a connection to him and could deliver the heaven on earth, and it just never came to fruition. After you met each other within a year, you came to me and said I think I could actually make an event happen with at Necker Island, richard's home. And I'll be perfectly honest.

Speaker 2: 11:59

When you told me that, I first assumed OK, sure, that's the sky idea, maybe maybe you're just talking me up, like so many other people have in life and in my in my experience there, but you followed through so quickly. With that, we were able to form a relationship with the Necker team. We were able to put on an amazing event in December 2021, when we actually had the Omicron COVID wave hitting and a number of us get COVID and I really worried about what that was going to do to the event. But people still absolutely loved it and we made such enough of a positive impression on the Necker team apparently to get invited to organize another event there, which we're doing now. And that's just the perfect illustration in my mind of you follow through on things where I've seen a lot of other people not yeah, no, it's very kind of you say that and it is great illustration.

Speaker 1: 12:48

I can give you another illustration in anything I've done. If you've seen the track record of people I've worked with, advised to founded businesses, or think about how I can scale their impact. Fundamentally, you think of it from the perspective of a chess move and like what is the move that's really going to have significant impact to be able to drive that fundamental change you want to see? So, as as I did, as you saw in the way we built that initiative and the community of people that got behind us and some of them are coming back, which is a great honor. It's all about making sure that you walk away feeling accountability and responsibility to do something Right. And I walked away from that first event and realizing that there's an immense influence here that can help drive the bigger picture.

Speaker 1: 13:28

Now, financial literacy in itself in itself we know and material financial inclusion from all the research we've done and working with Harvard very closely on the human flourishing study is simply the biggest thing that impacts human flourishing. That's the big study that Harvard did on human flourishing. I recommend everyone look it up. It was a 40 million plus study over several years and even post COVID Alex, we've seen financial material stability lag behind many other indicators. So it is it is a fundamental basis because unless people understand money and understand the language of money, you will not make the right decisions in your life. You'll make many small decisions that could be wrong, decisions that lead to fundamental breakdown in the big parts of your life, and I think that's the heart of this, and my view is that we want to do this more in the UK.

Speaker 1: 14:16

I have met our Prime Minister, rishi Sunak, to discuss it with him and the Deputy Prime Minister.

Speaker 1: 14:19

I think the UK government massively is supportive of the principle of supporting maths, but I think the paradigm shift of talking about it through money is very effective, linking it back to our for profit business, because we work with nearly 15 million employees, across 500,000 employees now today the largest player in financial wellbeing in the UK and US, now following the merger with Finfit. But I think it ties into the broader theme which I want to talk about today as well, which is empowering business to do good, and the theme of the summit being principle business is really important to me because it is principled businesses and principled individuals that fundamentally will be able to make an impact, more so than others, and so if you look at the companies that have thrived, my general view has always been those people are part of those principle. Business will feel more connected with the values, the brand and the mission will perform better within those businesses and, ultimately, we better for the share price and the customers as well. So it's a win-win all round if we do it in the right way.

Speaker 2: 15:16

And I actually want to dig into that a little bit, because when you're talking about helping people understand money and you're talking about financial inclusion, a lot of people immediately think that sounds like a non-profit activity or that's something for the government to do, and they don't immediately think that's something for businesses to do or that there's a business opportunity to actually make people's lives better by helping them out with their finances, with monetary education. But you've thrown yourself into that. Can you share a little bit about why you think business is actually one of the best tools to help people with this?

Speaker 1: 15:48

So, first and foremost, decisions within any company, whether it's small or large, has to be driven from the top, and if you look at the CEOs of the businesses that we've worked with, from Tesco to Tesla to many others fundamentally you see CEOs care about this because of three reasons, and there's many other reasons, but core reasons are it affects bottom line profitability of a company. Right, if you take care of your staff, they perform better. It drives bottom line and we know that just financial education, financial literacy, financial wellness collectively can impact anywhere between 11 and 14% of your bottom line of any company, which is significant enough for a CEO to care about. The second point is around retention. We're seeing in this period of time, post the pandemic, particularly the retention is getting harder.

Speaker 1: 16:33

Getting access to talent is a big scale shortage.

Speaker 1: 16:35

So when you help people in times of need, particularly around the money situations, they are feeling much more attached to the brand of the company they work for because you've helped them at a time of need, and many people spend many hours worrying, stressing, sleepless nights, problems with their colleagues because of my issues, which is a real fundamental concern of mine.

Speaker 1: 16:53

And the third reason is we know we can make a difference to those employees just as much we can to the companies, those individuals we help.

Speaker 1: 17:00

We have significantly changed our lives. I can share with you stories where they'll bring tears to your eyes, alex, in terms of what we've been able to do to get people out of debt, get them into savings, even, in some cases, getting them onto the housing ladder. That may not be everyone's ambition, but if we can empower them to be able to achieve their goals, we know they feel much more loyal and much more fulfilled. So this is really coming back to my point about creating environments where everyone benefits their employer, their employee, a salary, finances, a company can make a difference and continuously continue to make an impact at scale, and I think that that's the heart of everyone has to ask themselves what am I doing to make a difference? When you put your hands on the pillow at night and you think to yourself have I made a difference today, even if it's a little win, if you make progress, you're winning then absolutely you should be happy to have a good night's sleep.

Speaker 2: 17:48

And in one way it seems easy for you to say that when you co-founded one of the biggest companies growing in the UK the biggest in financial inclusion as you said before salary finance and for anyone who's an entrepreneur listening to this right now then they want to achieve that kind of scale, that kind of impact you're talking about. The little wins may not seem enough. To begin with, jared, let's just your perspective and advice, coming from that entrepreneurial start to scaling a company like this and actually pushing things through the challenges that every entrepreneur faces to make it.

Speaker 1: 18:20

There's several things I'd like to share and personal stories. I think number one is make sure the people you work with, the people that you can cry with, has what I celebrate with, If I can put it like that, because the journey is hard and I've had tremendous business partners, co-founders, the current CEOs absolutely amazing Luke in the UK and David Kilby in the US. I think if you look at the people, we are a family within itself, so we've been having tremendous colleagues to work with. Number one. Number two is a mission and a values that everyone truly believes in and continues to work for, and despite the difficult challenges we may be facing In the economy in the world today, people are more indebted than ever, so we've got to be able to work through the challenges together and we've got to build a moat around the business so that we've got something that's really valuable, that can actually scale, which I think we've done extremely well. But the other element I would say is critical to us that was really instrumental in our success is building technology that can scale and be able to support the number of people today we serve, and driving engagement within those employees is a critical part of this. So for us, I think it's been a.

Speaker 1: 19:26

It was, frankly, what Harv special mentioned to particularly the Harvard book around Blue Ocean. It was a white space. It was a new initiative that we had to educate the world around but actually gave us the opportunity, if you will, to the effort in which we did over several years to build a world-class business that won over 70 awards over that period. And that's why I want to use that good in society and that purpose and my influence to be able to do the kind of things we're doing, Alex, because I know there are many people out there that would love to be part of this journey and make a difference in other parts of the world and where we can bring those together and be part of that with them to help accelerate their initiatives, you feel pretty proud. It's been like mentoring someone or supporting someone in your life. It's extremely rewarding and supportive of them.

Speaker 2: 20:11

And that's one of the explicit goals of the principal business summit we're putting on to bring amazing business leaders, investors and entrepreneurs together to come up with ways to work together and support one another very explicitly. It's not just about spending a few days on Necker Island together. It is everyone's getting the opportunity to share a project they're working on or opportunities to partner with each other to come up with collaborations after the event, because that's what matters and there are so many opportunities available out there. But it all starts with developing that, these initial relationships, and then deepening them as quickly as possible to form that trust and be able to work together after the event.

Speaker 1: 20:48

And I think that's the magic.

Speaker 1: 20:49

And as we evaluate and assess what we're doing together at Necker and I hope that many of people listening will be able to join us If they can't join us talk about how you can engage with Liberty Ventures and our initiatives, because I think fundamentally, as a minimum, what we should be able to do is help people.

Speaker 1: 21:04

Think about how they can support them. Right, if we can help each other, if it's one thing we can do for each other we should be doing. I think people who are givers generally tend to be happier all the research shows. So, be a giver, think about how you can support your colleagues, your friends, people who have driven to make a difference in the world, and I think that's exactly what, Alex, you and I are doing. So this is really a call out to everyone listening in the ecosystem Liberty Ventures, whether you're an investor, whether you're driving a social initiative, whether you're building a company, whatever it is we believe, through this initiative with Necker and Richard and what we're doing will be a conduit hopefully to be able to help you do more, and I hope that people join us on that journey.

Speaker 2: 21:42

And one of the great things about the member putting on is we've got some incredible guests. So not only people participating, but John Mackey, the founder of Whole Foods, is gonna be a special guest. Prue Leith, who's known as a judge in the Great British Bake Off but is a very successful restaurateur and businesswoman in her own right, is speaking, and I actually met her through you inviting me to an event and forming an initial relationship with her. That was amazing and this is one of your superpowers you initiate relationships with people and are able to then turn them into things down the road. I am just always impressed and amazed by how many people you know and how rich your relationships are with them, and I actually wanna even ask how do you do that? How do you find yourself in so many of these incredible rooms and building relationships with all of the people you've mentioned and so many more that I don't know if I have the right to name here, and I'll let you do so if you want.

Speaker 1: 22:36

No sure. So, first and foremost, I've been asked to write a book on it. I never have done, and it's something that sometimes has striked me that I should, because I think there's a lot of lessons that can be shared with others, particularly people who are shy or don't feel so comfortable necessarily doing what I feel is very much a superpower. So if you can be always genuine, doesn't matter how long you have to interact with someone, I truly believe you can get a meeting with anyone in the world. As long as you have a genuine reason that's relevant to them at the time, they will want to speak to you. Right? And I think that at the heart of everything I've done, alex, has always been being genuine and sincere to the best of my ability to support what I can do to help them as well. So if you think about how you can help them as opposed to helping yourself, often people see through that and genuinely see you want to make a difference. So I really try to understand who is in the room. Who can I make a difference to? I'll take the time to do research on them. I'll try to understand. Do they have family? What is it about them that makes a difference, Really take an interest in them and then sincerely do that and really try to think about.

Speaker 1: 23:39

I think back in the day when I worked with the Musk's originally, I met them through my work with the Melkin Institute. Alex and I really felt I could help with some of their initiatives and that led to a friendship, would lead to becoming an advisor, which led to a subsequent getting a Tesla actually into the Royal Family in the UK and this is a story that's now documented in the Times newspaper. But we ended up actually providing a Tesla to the Royal Family and today that Tesla is still within the Royal Family. In fact, when Prince Charles went to Prince Philip's funeral, he used that car, and so that was a byproduct of working with them, which I'm very proud of.

Speaker 1: 24:12

The things we did, but always with the genuine sincerity to try to help them make a difference, and so you really people can see through that, as I'm sure you'd agree, and I think the friendship would build Alex and the time we've worked together is I don't sit there guarding this network. I view it from the perspective that if you believe other people are on that journey to do the right thing, there should be no reason why we should help them back. So that's, alex, why I've always been proud and very happy to introduce you to Richard, of course, remember the first event which I asked you to go to and I hope you had a wonderful time there. Whether it's Prulith or Andy Haldane or others that we've interacted with, I think in every single instance, you know, introducing great people like yourself has actually been a pleasure and an honor and really enjoy working with you, alex. So for me, that's how I feel, and I think anyone who knows me pretty well will know that how genuine and sincere I am in terms of how we try to do things.

Speaker 2: 25:05

That's 100% accurate. I didn't add a little more color to. The first time I went to Necker, it was you calling me up and saying, alexander, there's an event going on. I think you should go to see what this is like Part to help me understand the event that we were going to put on Necker, but just to get the experience. And I honestly said no, I had other commitments and other things to do. And you were like, yeah, sleep on and think about it and really reconsider that idea. You pushed me to do that, which has led to so many more opportunities for us, which I greatly appreciate, and as another example of you really looking to help other people out and develop and develop your relationships with them. You pushing me to do that, which I still appreciate to this day.

Speaker 1: 25:44

No, you're most welcome, and that's exactly why I say that to everyone here. We've become a very transactional society, sadly, and we don't necessarily always think about how we can push others into a position of success, because there's a lot of jealousy out there, and you should never be jealous of anyone else. In my view, you should genuinely try to make sure you help them, because they will remember that If you're working with genuine people, they will remember that. So you build a credit system. If, the way I look at it, that people will come back and give back to you at the right time. It's been an honor working with you. We've collaborated around so many great initiatives and every single time I've worked with you, alex, I've just enjoyed it. It's been fun. You have a great team around you at Liberty Ventures. Everything you say you follow up through, you do so. It works right, and that's what I think what makes great partnerships is we bring together different skillsets that complement each other, allow us to achieve more together than we could do alone and be able to make a difference. So it's a pleasure, alex. I can't say anything more than that. Ever since I've met you through your work in conscious capitalism and prior to that. I'm a John Mackie support.

Speaker 1: 26:44

I just think that just take people for what they are and help them succeed in life. Don't look at their negatives. Always focus on those few positives, because if we do that, not just in our peers and our friends, but also in the younger people around us that will give them confidence to be able to go on and do other things. And I think it's so important today how we interact with the next generation, how we talk to them, how we teach them about what's happening in the world and let them have meaningful conversation. Right, don't be interacting just with a phone all the time, which is becoming, sadly, such a tool that controls us more and more these days. Right, be human and get out there and have conversations, because, as I say, being present is more than 50% of willing right, just being in the right room at the right time. And I encourage everyone to do that, to be involved with Liberty Ventures, to be involved with the initiatives you guys are working on and backing to support great entrepreneurs.

Speaker 1: 27:37

And sometimes there will be failures, right, we know that that can be. That's just part of life. But unless you're trying, you're not winning, and so you've got to keep trying and pushing forward, because there are some great young people out there. There are some great peers who are doing great things and if those things get amplified, we can reverse some of these big challenges we're seeing in the world. We can make a big impact for the next generation and I think about the next generation a lot these days and you want to move this slow world in a better place. So we all have a moral responsibility to do that, and if we don't do it now, our energy levels will fall over the next few years. We won't have the drive that we do currently. So now's the time, and that's what I encourage everyone to do. You use now to make a difference. Don't think about doing it tomorrow.

Speaker 2: 28:18

Here here, daniel. I so appreciate that and encourage everyone to get involved with the financial inclusion alliance and what you're working on, and so always end this with actually a question. That's very similar to what you were recommending people do before that people ought to give first. If they want to connect with someone, if they want to get involved in a new industry, new company, don't ask for something, but offer to give in order to initiate that relationship, to help them out, and that's what you said you do. So anyone listening, if they want to get in touch with you, if they want to start building a relationship with you, what would be the genuine reason to reach out to you and offer to help you that you would immediately respond to and follow up with?

Speaker 1: 28:56

So, fundamentally, we want to be in a position where we can accelerate our work around financial literacy and education. So if there are companies out there that want to support it, we would love that to be part of the pledge and to support us in any way they can. We're taking great content and great initiatives from. The likes of the Singletons have had over 200 million views of their financial literacy content, turning it into other languages and distributing it around the world, and so you know, taking what works is a big part of it, and having other companies that want to support that would be a great honor and I would encourage. And the second thing is we can only make the impact we do if we work with large employers and small employees. So we typically try to engage with employers that we can support through our work with salary finance.

Speaker 1: 29:37

And more broadly and I say this with genuine sincerity is if there's someone who approaches me and also says just, I need your advice on something or can you help me? If I can, I will. If I don't know the answer, I may know someone who can. I'll always point them in the right direction. So, and always get in touch with me, either via self-alix or LinkedIn or however. I genuinely try to get back to as many people as I can, if not everyone. And, most importantly, I leave this with thought. With this thought is making sure that you know you've tried your best, right? I say that to my kids, I say that to my family and all the loved ones around us. Just doing your best is critical in life. That's all you can do. You're here.

Speaker 2: 30:13

Others try, you succeed, and I just so appreciate who you are as a person, daniel, and everything that you're doing. So excited for us to get together at Necker Island in January and meeting up beforehand to keep all these great ideas going.

Speaker 1: 30:25

Thank you so much for this interview and I look forward to furthering the relationship and look forward to connecting soon.