The Second Space Race: Why National Security Starts in Orbit

How is space is shaping our future, and are we ready for it?

In this episode of GNSI’s At the Boundary, host Jim Cardoso is joined by NASA astronaut Nicole Stott and space industry leader Chris Stott for a conversation that redefines what space really means for life on Earth, and why it matters now more than ever.

From GPS and global communications to climate monitoring and data security, space quietly powers the modern world. Drawing on Nicole Stott’s time aboard the International Space Station, and Chris Stott’s work building off-world data infrastructure, the discussion reveals how space has become essential to national security, economic resilience, and everyday life.

The episode explores the Moon as the next strategic frontier, the role of international cooperation in keeping space stable and secure, and how new commercial ventures, from lunar data centers to space-based solar power, could reshape global competition and resource access.

Along the way, Stott and Stott challenge the idea of space as a distant or scarce domain, offering a compelling vision of space as a source of opportunity, collaboration, and long-term abundance.

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At the Boundary from the Global and National Security Institute at the University of South Florida, features global and national security issues we’ve found to be insightful, intriguing, fascinating, maybe controversial, but overall just worth talking about.

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The mission of GNSI is to provide actionable solutions to 21st-century security challenges for decision-makers at the local, state, national and global levels. We hope you enjoy At the Boundary.

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Transcript

ATB - Ep 116 - 2 Febuary (Stott) 

The Second Space Race: Why National Security Starts in Orbit

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

Space exploration, international collaboration, national security, NASA astronaut, Lone Star Data Holdings, lunar data centers, space-based security, space-based solar power, global positioning satellites, climate change, space policy, strategic defense initiative, space-based resources, space-based communication.

SPEAKERS

Chris Stott, Jim Cardoso, Nicole Stott

Jim Cardoso  00:13

Jim, hello everyone. Welcome to this week's episode of at the boundary, the podcast from the global and national security Institute at the University of South Florida. I'm Jim Cardoso, Senior Director for genocide, and your host for at the boundary. Today on the podcast, we'll be speaking with Nicole and Chris Stott. Nicole is the keynote speaker and Chris will be a featured speaker at the upcoming St Petersburg conference on world affairs. They are St Pete residents who definitely fall under the umbrella of power couple. Nicole is a veteran NASA astronaut, and Chris is heavily involved in the space industry as the founder and CEO of Lone Star data holdings. This year's conference is themed space international collaboration and competition. GNSI is partnering with the St Petersburg World Affairs Council to host the conference scheduled for February 10 through the 11th at the USF St Petersburg campus. Nicole's keynote address will be the evening of the 10th with the rest of the conference the following day, we'll drop a link in the show notes for you to register to attend. It's not easy to catch up with two individuals that have so much on their plates, but we were able to do so in advance of the conference. Nicole is not only an astronaut, she's also an aquanaut, engineer, artist, mom and author her book back to Earth, what life in space taught me about our home planet and our mission to protect it imparts essential lessons in problem solving, survival and crisis response. As a veteran NASA astronaut, she made two space flights totaling 104 days on the space shuttle and the International Space Station, she was the first person to operate the ISS robotic arm to capture a free flying cargo vehicle and the first person to paint a watercolor in space. Not to be outdone, Chris Stott is the founder and CEO of Lone Star data holdings focused on creating off Earth data centers on the moon and the concept of resiliency as a service. It's our pleasure to present our conversation with Nicole and Chris Stott as we talk about the future exploration and commercial applications of space. Nicole Stott, Chris Stott, welcome to at the boundary. Thank you so much for being here today.

Nicole Stott  02:37

Thank you. Nice to be here. Yeah,

Jim Cardoso  02:41

yeah, no, yeah. And I understand this is only the second time you've done a podcast together, so hopefully there's no arguments or anything like that. We'll keep things, you know, keep things

Nicole Stott  02:52

separate us. We're in separate places,

Jim Cardoso  02:55

yes, on purpose, or maybe you did it yourself, so it'll work out. Well, Nicole, we'll start with you. You know, your career was primarily, you're mostly on the civilian side of space exploration and research, but you know, space, it kind of naturally sits in that nexus that includes national security aspects, featuring both collaboration and competition. So just you know, what are your thoughts on the explosion of space initiatives and national security related initiatives in space. And just where do you see that trend line going?

Nicole Stott  03:28

I don't like that word explosion, but we can, we can move past that.

Jim Cardoso  03:32

Yeah, that was, you're absolutely right, so let's just press on. Yes, no,

Nicole Stott  03:37

but it's good. I mean, but I think it really is. There's, you know, there's a lot going on. I I feel fortunate that, like you said, the primary experience I have has been in in what and what I think makes the space ecosystem industry exploration so powerful is the cooperation and partnership that goes on with it. And you know, through the International Space Station, I mean, holy moly, for over 25 years, you have crews on board this machine in space, you know, orbiting our planet 16 times a day that are have agreed upon a higher mission. Have figured out as these 1516, individual countries that fall under these five international space agencies. You know, they've established the rules of engagement for doing that work together on this place in space. And it's not just that place in space, right? It's 10s of 1000s of people down here on Earth, covering the planet, that are making that happen. And so for me, it's just a wonderful example for how, even within the national security, the international security of our world, that we can make that kind of thing happen. And so I look to, you know, the things that I've experienced as as this model for how all of what we're seeing going on, whether you're looking. At it from a Space Force standpoint, or, you know, kind of the subtleties of space based security that can all play in that same way for us as a, you know, as a planetary spaceship,

Jim Cardoso  05:14

yeah, the collaboration, I mean, and you know, we will maybe talk about the conference we're going to do in February, a little later, but that's part of it. Is talk about that collaboration. I assume you're going to speak of that at the conference as well, but that's a later question. So hold any thoughts on that. We'll get to that for sure. I do want to go over to Chris now. But you know, you know talking to Chris, you you know Chris, you've spent time in politics, taught International Space Law, founded lodestar data holdings, and you're focusing on lunar and CIS lunar data centers. So you spent a lot of time at that kind of tech policy boundary that GNSI likes to explore. So let's, let's pull in the data centers a bit. What's the status of that program? What do you see in the future, and how do you envision it impacting national security, more broadly, global relations?

Chris Stott  05:58

No, thank you. And by the way, as Nicole said, space is national security and data security is national security. Agree, data runs our entire civilization, most valuable commodity we have as a species and as a nation, we have to protect it. That's what we do at learnstar, the idea of secure, accessible and under data sovereignty laws, policy. Love it. We put the data up in space for storage data. Space is a data center region. It works really well. So there's so many different advantages we can go into that. But really, at the end of the day, space is just a natural augmentation and complement to everything we do down here on Earth, right? Everything we put in spaces to make life better down here isn't Cole always says 100% of the money spent in space isn't it's spent down here, building our future, and then for data centers. This is just like fire, like a tool, like a rocket engine, access to space and data. This is just a way of taking incredible infrastructure from The Incredible Machine, putting them in space and meeting a terrestrial need, whether it's stories like we do, AI training and inference that Mr. Musk, Mr. Bezos and Mr. Schmidt and Mr. Altman, they're all talking about doing, and they're doing it. It's just a tool. 60 years of sunk investment is now paying off in a fantastic way,

Jim Cardoso  07:17

I guess, to a lot of people, though. I mean just the whole concept of putting these massive, well, I assume, massive data centers. Or you can, you can educate me on that in space. I think to somebody, space is this, you two are used to space, I guess, and to a lot of people, it's this unattainable frontier thing out there that it's not for the common human being and, and I guess, how do you explain, I guess, for people just to understand maybe that it's, it's not so far fetched, it's, it's right there, it's happening. I don't know what I'm trying to ask here, but, I mean, I think to a lot of people, I just can't even imagine. They read about that, they read the words, but they don't really comprehend what's happening and how that can even happen.

Nicole Stott  07:59

But I, you know, I love the question, because, I think, and some of the ways that you were expressing the question, too, it's what we get all the time. It's like people think of place or of space is this far away place, right? Like it has nothing to do with us. And I get that, you know, oh, traveling to the moon or being an astronaut, or, you know, even thinking about a satellite in space, it seems so far away and detached from us, right? But we always like to say, like, right now, wherever you are, you know, sitting at a desk, or, you know, walking down the street, you are on a planet in space. That's just who and where we all are together. We are on a planet in space, and so that is, it's the greatest thing we have in common, right? Is the who and where we are in space together. And so everything about what we do every day has some connection to space, just in the way that we even exist and stay alive and survive and and I know that's not something that we're like consciously thinking about every day. But maybe we should be. Maybe one of the very first things we should do when we get up in the morning and our feet hit the floor is remind ourselves that we're standing on a planet in space, and how that just defines the interconnectivity of everything, which I think then, you know, to our whole topic of security and, you know, a global presence. I mean, I think it speaks perfectly to that is accepting your role as a crewmate on this planetary spaceship, right? Put you in a place to not just be thinking about, How do I become part of the solution to all these global challenges we have, but to how do I then engage with all my my crewmates here on this on this planetary spaceship, to ensure that we're safe and fed and secure and are not just surviving but thriving in this place. And so the way we're communicating today space. Space, you know, has some some role, and allowing us to communicate this way, the way we get from point A to point B these days, space, it's not I'm holding up, you know, my this little appendage that we all have now, our smartphones, right? And for some reason there, there is a detachment with that as well, for a lot of us, where we just it's so ubiquitous, it's so part of our life that we don't even consider where all of this stuff is coming into the magic box from, and for the most part, that is coming to us in some way, from space, and the data that we're getting from space that is allowing us to live the lives that we live. You know, in a lot of ways, pretty effortlessly these days. And, I mean, I had a conversation with somebody one time about, how do you get from point A to point B? I'm of an age where we had the triptych in the car and the, you know, the maps and all of that the paper to do it, yeah. And I said, you know, you must know that has to do with space, right? They're like, No, I have, I get, I have my cell phone. That's how I get from point A to point B, completely separating the fact that global positioning satellites are the things that allow you to get understand where point A is and how you get to point B. And it's just become such a part of how my glasses don't scratch anymore, how I communicate, how I get from point A to point B. You know, even the squishy stuff in my shoes that was used to cushion. You know, an astronaut landing in a spacecraft is part of my everyday life. Now, to make life better, I know, you know, you got me on the ramble so, because I hope we talk about this some more, and hopefully in the in the conference. Because really and truly, from a security standpoint, from a health and well being standpoint, from a communication standpoint, whatever it is, everything that's going on in space is helping make life better, right? And in one of those ways, through the satellite data and the you know, kind of this coverage we have of Earth, we're measuring the vital signs of our planet, right? So everything we need to know about how we solve the problems that are, you know, going on here on Earth, whether that's farming or human trafficking or communication, all of it is, is Willie coming to us from space, the vital signs coming to us from space, the data that you actually

Jim Cardoso  12:37

you started to, you started to answer a follow on question that I had, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna hold off on asking that, because I know that Chris wanted to weigh in on this, this topic as well. And Chris you, what do you from your point of view?

Chris Stott  12:51

No, thank you. And Nicole said it so very, very well. The only thing I would add is, pop down to Venezuela. Pop over to Iran today and ask those people who are desperately dying and fighting for their freedoms, how they are getting word out to the international world. And it's coming through space. Right? As Nicole said, every solution to every problem we have is in space. Space is the ultimate high ground. If you ignore space, you're relegated to the dustbin, to the garbage pail of history. It is the ultimate source of energy resources to help humanity thrive, to uplift everybody. But at the same time, it is so embedded in every part of our daily lives, it's incredible. What's going on go on the streets of Tehran right now and try and call for help, and the only way out is through Starlink. And thank you SpaceX and Elon Musk. And by the way, thank you a fellow immigrant to our great nation, Mr. Musk. And thank you for choosing to do all of that here in America, because he's changing lives all of a sudden. For the first time in human history, there's not a single place in the world where you don't have access to broadband because of satellite, and you don't have access to the entirety, the entirety of all human knowledge, from music to film to art to plans to everything. Where are generations have never seen this before. It is opening up an entire new visit for agriculture, farming, economics, everything we're doing. And so when people try and put space into a box or a bottle, I'm sorry, but you want to shake them and say, wake up. This is the future. This is the beginnings, before, after and during world war three. It will be one in space. And then we come into that other world, which is much better, full of democracy. Of democracy and no more tyranny. But that's just me born. The goal knows about this.

Jim Cardoso  14:47

No, this is, these are, this is why we this is why we do these podcasts. Is why we have these discussions. And this is, this is great stuff, I mean. And in fact, I want to ask a couple questions that does sort of broaden things out. And I said, Nicole, you were, you were already starting. To walk in on that. So let's go ahead and go all the way in about five years ago, you published a book back to earth what life and space taught me about our home planet and our mission to protect it. And it's not a it's not an astronaut. There I was story, and I was an Air Force pilot, and we love our there I was stories, but it's more about your experience. It reshaped your view of the Earth as that shared spaceship, which you already touched on, that shared experience for us to properly steward. You start to talk about it, maybe a little bit more discuss that realization. And since attributes of climate and the status of our planet do impact national security and International Affairs, maybe what does the future hold for a planet to be both stable, naturally and geopolitically?

Nicole Stott  15:46

Well, I mean, I think Chris was touching on it is that, you know, it's kind of a wake up call for everyone. First of all, space is not the far away place, right? We're right in the middle of it. And, you know, in order to, I think have the future that we all want, you know? I think about it like the Star Trek future, right? You know, we, we are going to have to understand that that space provides us with the resources, the the real estate, if you will, and the data that we need to solve our greatest planetary challenges and and, I think you know, whether you're in an audience or a community that wants to believe in the two words climate change or not, or acknowledge the two words global warming or not, we all, I think, are aware that the systems of our planet are changing. And you know, we we may or may not have a big role in how that's changing, and there's ways we can do things differently in our lives to hopefully lessen that impact on a on a grand scale and on a small scale, even in our own homes. But the fact is, we can understand that better through the data and the information that's provided to us from space. And I think about the term, you know, in terms of defense or security or protection, you know, all of those kinds of words. We were working recently with a group. They call themselves the Maldivian Space Research Organization. It's not an official government organization at all or not, but they have kind of taken a role on their own to understand how the Maldives are affected by what's going on from a planetary standpoint. And you know, some of the folks involved with this, they went to the same university that Chris went to, as well, the International Space University, and they started to learn about these space based tools, and you know what we can understand? And they, on their own, started interfacing with their government, and they were directed, you know, not to the environmental organization of the Maldives or, you know, some tourist organization. They were directed to the Department of Defense to share what they they were starting to understand about the the, you know, the climate and global changes going on that are most already, you know, impacting livelihood on the Maldivian islands. And so they're looking at defense in a whole new way they're just defending. They want to look at, how do we use this data and defend our ability to survive on this planet? And so I think we have to think of security and defense and all the different ways and how that you know what we're doing in space very positively is and can impact those solutions. So I thought that was a really, I mean, when they told us that, I was like, Oh my gosh, that is. That's so true. Defense and security are, you know, there's many different ways to look at that,

Jim Cardoso  18:52

yeah, you know. And Chris, along the lines of what you were already talking about, along the lines of what Nicole was just talking about, as we were corresponding in advance of this podcast you talked about, you know, we said about why space, and you said you talked about being an inflection point, not only as a nation, but as a species. So, you know, maybe that kind of just re teased the ball up for something you already talking about. But I'll go ahead. I'll tee it back up there if you want to talk through

Chris Stott  19:18

that a little bit more. No thanks, Jim, I mean, and echoing what Nicole said on this too, this is this point. We're a tool using species. We have the ability to imagine and take tools and solve problems, take data in and fix things. It's an incredible thing as a species to do this. David Deutsch talks about this a lot about how, you know, as Nicole said, a lot of people out there see humanity in a negative way. They look at the future in a negative way. We don't. In the space industry, we look at it in a very, very positive way. We are at this inflection point between scarcity and abundance. Scarcity is the mindset that's true. Even the human race? No, we call ourselves a race, not a sit down and hug each other, very Darwinian competition, right? Because until this point of history, we have had to compete for every single resource on the planet. The word River and the word rifle have the same derivation. Barrel of fresh water is still more expensive than a barrel of oil. Dr Jerry ponelle and Larry Niven wrote about this in a step a book called a step farther at a book of space economics, which is actually quoted by Jeff Bezos, right? But now, thanks to a tool, a rocket engine, which is just like a screwdriver, like a like fire, like AI, it's a tool that we use, and that gives us access to unlimited energy and resources and space. It gives us access to this incredible overview effect. For the first time, we can see everything. But more importantly, it gives us access to the high ground. Now this inflection point is, what do we do with it? There's a lot of historical studies on the Chinese back in the 1500s when they built an incredible fleet and went off to sail around the world. And for whatever reason, the Emperor at the time was like, birth, don't want to do that boring. And they burned the fleet, and then we showed up and took everything they ever had. Right? The same inflection point, the moon is there. It is the ultimate high ground. Whoever controls the moon controls the world. That's it. You're done. You want tyranny or democracy to control that. It's no and there's no degrees of this at the other there's no shades of gray. It's that's it. It's the ultimate high ground, because that viewpoint, the satellites in orbit, they give you the view the communications. We now have access to unlimited resources and energy. And it fundamentally changes the equation of survivability and thriving, not just surviving for the human race. That's what Niven and Paul now were writing about. That's what David Deutsch, with his positive idea of humanity, writes about. What we all believe. But that inflection point is so important, because here we are in this incredible idea of a nation. So I became an American. I love this country, this idea of participatory democracy, this idea of a republic, this idea that stood up to empires and beat them, this idea that we sowed the seed of democracy around the planet, this idea that stepped foot on the moon in the middle of a terrible cold war, and here we are in Cold War 2.0 against a much larger, much more educated, better financed foe who also reads the same technical books that we do. They can see what's happening China. And we're in an absolute race. And if anyone anyone tries to tap the brakes. You have to question their sanity. And worse, because this is it, everybody, these dominoes are falling. I'm really touching very quickly on another one, if I can, and you can edit this out. So in the past, Jerry ponelle did a lot of the research on this with Larry Niven and lots of other scholars. The size of an empire was limited by the size of the time it took to give a command. The Roman Empire was never bigger than two weeks march from a Roman road or a river or a body of water. The Kahn's empire, Genghis Khan's Empire, was horseback riding. When the horsebacks went away, they lost the Empire. The British Empire was based on the Spanish and the Portuguese was based on sailing ships the speed of communication. Then it was telegraph. And here in the United States and in Europe, then it was radio. And now with satellite communication, so the size of your government and your empire is decided by the limits of your communications. And now with satellite communications, there are no limits. You could have a global government today. And what kind of government do you want, bunch of tyrannies, dictatorships, and a whole bunch of horrible things happening at the UN or do you want something that's based on actual democracy, the chaos of democracy, proving democracy right, but still 10 times better than everything else we've ever done, like Churchill said, and that's what space gives us. And when the policymakers, and I think a lot of policymakers, are starting to wake up to this, it's a whole new world where you don't have to fight everyone for the resources down here that's so archaic. This thing in Uke is Bob Ukraine. Is Bob Barrick. What the hell bunch of old men who are spaced on scarcity thinking can't get out of their own way. It's terrible. We have access to unlimited energy and resources. Mr. Musk has figured that out. Mr. Bezos has figured that out. A whole bunch of people have figured that out. Now our policy people have to wake up to this. It's like waking up the day after America was born in 1776 and going, Oh, going, oh my gosh, there's an alternative. It's that kind of a moment. That's the inflection point we're at. Ask me what I really think,

Jim Cardoso  24:52

you know, I'll tell you what I mean. There's a lot there. But one thing, because, look, this is a national security podcast, and I do these conversations week after week with great. People. But I mean, it's hard sometimes in the national security realm not to be sometimes get a little pessimistic or wary or just almost exhausted, just because it's such a dynamic time, whereas the conversation, this conversation, it's really accentuating the positive and looking at what the possibilities are. And it's kind of, it's kind of a bit from from my perspective, it's refreshing, not that any guests who I've had before has been terrible for everybody's listening. But it's a different sort of vibe here on today's episode, with that positive and just the fact that you say the space community thinks positively because of the sheer magnitude of the opportunity that sits there.

Chris Stott  25:43

Oh my gosh, exactly. Was Patton ever pessimistic? No, America. Are you American or an American? Right? I'm an American, and the space community is too. And we are kicking ass and getting it done, and the fact that no one's noticing is wonderful, because we're making so much progress.

Nicole Stott  26:02

Well, you know, I love it, because I think it's, you know, Chris and I both have a wonderful mentor named Jay Honeycutt, who was a hero of the Apollo program. I mean, absolutely, when you when you hear all the stories about Apollo 13 and people solving the problems, he was right at the heart of that. And then he was, you know, he was a boss for both of us. You know, he was a leader for both of us at the Kennedy Space Center. And, you know, from my youngest engineering days, this is where I mean, from that point with that man and the philosophy is where I understood what space and human spaceflight are all about, it's like, you know, he taught us, okay, you have got to believe, you know, what we do in space seems impossible to people, and so we're making what seems impossible possible. And the way that we do that is, first of all, we go in and we believe there's a solution to the problem. You know, we're not going in with the, you know, this, this attitude we go in with, we know there's a solution to this problem. And so now we're going to adopt the approach of, here's how we can not, why we can't. And I can't find it because my we're remodeling, you know, this house after the storms. But somewhere on my desk here is the little sticky that says, here's how we can not, why we can't, with the initials j, h, by it because it works for everything. It works for everything. It can work in the security and, you know, global, you know, national, whatever, defense and security world too. You know, here's how we can, you know, create a future that we all would like to live in, versus why we can't. And, you know, bogging ourselves down with the baloney that Chris was just talking about, I mean, I think it's so impressive to look at what has been done, you know, even in just the last 50 years of human spaceflight, of satellite telecommunications, and how that's expanded, and, you know, allowed us to, you know, achieve the way of life that we have here on Earth. Now. It's, it's awesome. I mean, it's a word we use in space, all that, you know, the awesome word, and it's a bit surreal as well, which is what you know, astronauts use when they're floating around in space. Wow. This is surreal. But if it's possibility, and I think that's what comes from, you know, people who believe there are solutions to problems and then want to make them happen. And that's what, you know, you mentioned my book. That's what that was all about. I love reading the stories from my colleagues of you know, the how they got to where they're going, or where they got to and what they were doing, and, you know, what allowed them to become an astronaut. But I think even embedded in those stories are the, you know, is this expression of how we've been able to work as this international community in space in a way that is a perfect model for how we should be doing that same thing down here on our, you know, on our on our planet as well.

Jim Cardoso  28:52

Hmm, did? Did either of you read the executive order on ensuring American Space superiority came out the end of last year?

Chris Stott  29:01

Yeah, absolutely, yes. Bloody time.

Jim Cardoso  29:05

Then, well, okay, so a lot, a lot packed in there. I mean, you've got permanent outposts, missile defense, nuclear energy and space on the lunar surface. That's just scratching the surface. So, um, you know, what, notionally designed to set a coordinated civil, commercial, national security objectives. So Chris, I'll start with you, but I'd like to hear from both you. What's your thoughts on this? Well, you've already given me your thoughts, but about bloody time, please.

Chris Stott  29:31

I will expand on that, right? I mean, seriously, on three quick points on that. One is, I was fortunate to be on a panel with Mitsubishi Heavy Industries at the rice Space Policy Institute last year, and I was there with two of Nicole's colleagues, Joe ringgren, and others astronauts, and the question came up, is it good to be going back to the moon? And I said, it's about bloody time. And I got a standing ovation from the rest of my panelists. I'm like, yes, we've been waiting for this. That's the Promised Land, guys. Why did. We stop? Well, at the Israelites, we've been stuck in the desert for 40 years. It's like, come on, right? I mean, this isn't it is rocket science, but it's not like, it's a mystery. We've known about all these benefits. It's really strange that we haven't done this, but now our generation is there, and we can get this done. That's one thought. But on the Space Policy and everything else, that you need a strong you need a strong direction. You can't have a left wing, right wing, left wing, back, forward, backwards. You need direction. And the great thing is we now have a NASA director, an administrator, Jared Eisenman, who is actually a Democrat. Space is one of the very few bipartisan issues, right? It's a national importance. It's international importance. It is live or die for the human race. So we get this done. And then the third thing is, when you look at Golden Dome and look at all these things, I would harken back, and I've mentioned Dr Larry Niven and Dr Jerry ponell A couple of times, the two guys who, along with Governor Reagan and general Graham and a bunch of others at Larry's house in Burbank one weekend, came up with the Strategic Defense Initiative. And I would absolutely ask everyone to go back and look at the notes and look at the meeting records and everything else, and you will see that the genesis of the Strategic Defense Initiative, and a precursor to Golden Dome, wasn't just missile defense. It was to do well I teach, so I won't do the Socratic thing. It was to bankrupt the Soviet Union because they were trying to copy all our tech and oh my goodness, did it work, right? The most powerful force for change in human history is the United States dollar now, if we can even get halfway to Golden Dome and protect our cities, like the Israelis have been able to do, like the original SDI wanted to do, then we've what a home win for everybody, what a home win for all of our allies. What a home win for team. Freedom, right? I won't get into the policy wonk stuff because I look I want to win or lose guys. Quit debating. Get going. This is a win, win, win for everybody. Yeah, the Democrat, right or Republican. I don't care.

Jim Cardoso  32:01

Just, yeah, that's great. Thank you, Nicole. Anything from from your point

Nicole Stott  32:06

of view? Yeah. I mean, I love it. I think it just keeps pointing back to, you know? I mean, I'm excited about it. First of all, I'm really excited about the place that Jared isaacman holds now as the NASA administrator, very thoughtful gentleman, extremely talented and successful business person, an astronaut and a pilot who, you know, understands the operational side of these things as well. And I think is, you know, it might not be a scalpel, but it's certainly going to be a meticulous, deliberate, you know, look at where we are and how we achieve these goals of this, you know, this new Directorate and, and I love it, because it's for once there's like an, it seems to be like an integrated thought out, you know, strategy for our place in space and how that comes back to Earth. I mean very deliberately, how all of what that you know means of us doing in space comes back to benefit us here on Earth. And that has to be in both the defense and civil and, you know, sciency kinds of ways that go into, you know, space exploration and establishing our place off the planet. I love the way Chris talks about the solutions as well. You know, we have this, this, you know, I think about our partners in space, the moon being, you know, a significant one. You know, we all look up at the same, the same one that is the high ground, as he mentions, as well. And the thing that allows us to survive in this place is the sun. You know, unlimited energy for us, and not just through terrestrial solar farms, right? I mean, we right now for less than what it costs to, and I learned this a couple years ago at the World Economic Forum, where it shocked me too, but for less than what it costs to, apparently, deploy a World Cup soccer tournament. We could, right now, have space based solar power factories in space collecting the energy from sun and beaming it back to Earth. Pardon me, please. That's a strong point

Chris Stott  34:13

that you made about the soccer tournaments. Could you please mention those numbers for the audience?

Nicole Stott  34:17

Yeah, and this, I mean, I have nothing against a football tournament, right? It's but, you know, I went into the World Economic Forum, a place that I said I'd never go and and I but I did get some benefit out of being there. I learned these things. I went in as a person who thought, who thought, $25 billion is a lot of money. You know, the budget that NASA roughly, gets every year to do everything that NASA does. It was a bit of an awakening for me. I was talking about, you know, how we can generate energy for the planet through these space based solar power, you know, factories and and then, and that I was discouraged, because it's going to cost a lot of money still to do it. And so I got. Asked, well, how much money? And I was like, Well, what I understand right now is that it would be probably 60 to $100 billion to deploy a substantive on that word, a substantive factory in space, to be beaming this energy back to Earth. And I mean, people were just looking at me like, why does she think that's a lot of money? And I'm like, you know, to me, $60 billion that's a lot of money, right? And so afterwards, I talked to a couple of these people, and they're like, you know, Nicole, last year, the World Cup soccer tournament, which I think was in Qatar, was $200 billion

Jim Cardoso  35:38

and how much is going to be coming up in the United States, you know. Who knows? You know.

Nicole Stott  35:42

And and then they went on to tell me that the Asian Winter Games, which I think are next year in Saudi Arabia, they're already estimating $600 billion and I'm like, I've got, honestly, seriously, got nothing against sporting events, absolutely nothing. But I'm thinking, Oh my gosh. Who do we talk to to say, okay, Saudi Asian Winter Games. How about we just commit 10% of whatever your budget ends up being to solving one of our greatest planetary challenges, to provide the earth with clean, unlimited energy. And by

Chris Stott  36:20

the way, guys just to jump in, what Cole's talking about is free carbon, free energy, 24 hours a day for eternity, anywhere on the planet, anywhere on the planet, forever.

Nicole Stott  36:31

And it sounds like sci fi. It's been in sci fi forever, but it is today. Could be SCI fact, if we decide to do it. And that's just one example of, you know, solving a problem that we have on this planet and just doing it. And that's why I said to them, and I, you know, you might have to believe this, but I'm like, then, where are the cahoons? How about you guys? Find them, rally together and actually do this? Blank stares. But yeah, yeah.

Jim Cardoso  37:01

It's look. It's a lot to take in, you know? I mean, Good gosh, we could, we could go on forever, but I will say to everybody that if you want to have an opportunity that continues discussion, the St Pete conference of world affairs will be on February 10 and 11th in St Petersburg, and you'll get to hear from Nicole and Chris. I think you're gonna, you'll be at that too. I believe, right.

Chris Stott  37:24

I'm hoping to be that I managed to mess up my own schedule, my time in my fault. I'm double booked and to speak at a green, a green data center conference, because using solar power to run data centers in space is very green. So I'm gonna, I'm either gonna be there in person, I'll be videoing. I'll figure it out. Don't worry.

Jim Cardoso  37:39

I know we're working it. Yeah, I know we're trying to, we'll get you there somewhere.

Nicole Stott  37:43

The resources and space to bring you in,

Jim Cardoso  37:46

bring you here to beam you. It'll be fantastic. Okay, so one, one final question. I mean, this is, this is, I've been, I've been looking to ask this. It popped up my head in the middle of this whole discussion. Have either of you seen the series for all mankind on Apple TV, of course, absolutely okay. Is there any reality, or, to put it in your lingo, Chris is a complete bollocks.

Chris Stott  38:09

A friend of ours is in the technical advisor who's actually been in it, Garrett. Reason, fantastic guy. Look, I think it's an incredible premise, because the basis of this is and please go watch it.

Jim Cardoso  38:22

I I'm looking forward to the next season come up. And I really enjoyed so you were either going to heart and me and my wife or totally burst. And it looks like it looks like it's going to be the former.

Chris Stott  38:33

A couple of technical things, just some of those are a bit but that's but. But the plot and the idea is that America does best when we're competing. As Bane said in one of the Batman movies, the villain victory has defeated us in America. When we have a national goal, beat Nazis, beat communists, we do really, really well. After we win, we tend to go the premise of the show is that we weren't the first on the moon, and we kept competing, and the technology kept advancing. And I think that is an incredible premise. And the last season, they ended up on Mars and more, way out of the schedule, which is where they would have been, if I'm you know, it's astounding the world we could have had. Oh, that's the most awful things, like losing the library of Alexander, but Nikki, go for it.

Nicole Stott  39:18

I love it. I mean, I actually love the series, and I like, you can't wait for the next season. There's some goofy stuff, you know. I mean, there's some goofy stuff, but it's, it's, that's the drama of TV and that kind of thing. And I'm normally not a fan of the alternative history kind of thing. I usually, I'm like, you know, somebody just making stuff up, you know, I might as they didn't need to use it as an alternative history. They could have just told the story some other way. But this way. But this, I think, really speaks to some of the things we've all wondered about, right? We've all wondered, man, if we had just kept going on the moon, you know, if it wasn't just if there was an Apollo 18 and blah, blah, blah and all that and and even if it had come to life. I'd like to think that, you know, the goodness of what we see in this too, the development and the extension of what we've done we did on the moon and, you know, and onto Mars in this series. I'd like to think it could have come to life if we just kept going, you know, if we had just kept going with the plan to develop the moon the way we had, you know, thought of then to have orbiting, you know, orbiting the Earth, these omele and like habitats to, you know, to house us and to leave the earth in this beautiful way, not to to leave Earth, but to improve earth through our expansion into space. And so that's what I watch it. And it gives me real hope that, you know, some kid will be watching this and think, oh my gosh, like Chris said, what if, you know, and now what if, let's just, let's do it. And that's what I like to think about this space policy as well. I'm glad you mentioned. I was worried you might say some other movie or series, but, but that's a good one. And I think it gets us all thinking about the potential, and not just of the competition, but of the cooperation that we see coming from all of that, you know, that that I don't anxiety sometimes, or, you know, risk that's happening in that place, you know, between these countries and these people and and what can come from it In a very unifying way as well.

Jim Cardoso  41:22

You know, I kind of asked that question just to, just to have an idea of this show that my wife and I have really enjoyed, is, is has some basis reality. And it turns out, it's, it's applicability. This entire conversation was off the charts. And that's kind of an unintended, great way to end. And I really appreciate, I really appreciate the conversation. I appreciate the kind of the some of the rabbit holes we dove into, but they were good, and they were good rabbit holes, and I really enjoyed them, and I think that I look forward to hearing more of them in February. So Nicole Stott, Chris Stott, thank you for your time today. Really appreciate it.

Chris Stott  41:58

You're welcome. Enjoyed it. Thank you very much. Thanks for having

Jim Cardoso  42:05

us. Jim. Special, thanks to our guests today, Nicole and Chris Stott both will be featured speakers at the upcoming St Petersburg conference on world affairs. Nicole will be the keynote speaker to kick off the conference on the evening of February 10, with the rest of the conference the following day. You'll find a link for registration information in the show notes. Couple other quick notes. Today, great news continues to roll in for USF. At the start of the new year, the University recently released its latest economic impact report. We're proud to be mentioned in the report alongside the Bellini College of artificial intelligence, cybersecurity and computing and the USF Health Tampa General Hospital partnership. USF generates an annual economic impact of nearly $10 billion across the state of Florida, with 7 billion in the Tampa Bay region alone. There will be a link to the report in the show notes. You really ought to check it out. Additionally, our GNSI senior fellows have been busy recently. Jeff ROG recently wrote an article for just security, an independent, nonpartisan digital Law and Policy journal. His article, US intelligence in a post Maduro Venezuela, breaks down the central role US intelligence will play in capitalizing on maduro's successful capture and stabilizing the country at the same time, Rob Burrell also wrote an article about Venezuela. His article is Venezuela on the path to democracy. Here's what to look for. Published recently in the national interest, two terrific articles from our GNSI team offering analysis and insight into that country's future. On March 11, we'll host cyber Beacon, the flagship conference from the College of Information and cyberspace at the National Defense University. GNSI will partner with NDU to hold this conference outside the Washington DC area for the first time ever, right here at USF on March 24 to the 25th we'll hold genii side Tampa summit six, USF marquee national security event with the potential return of nuclear weapons in conflict and advances in nuclear energy. This year's theme is cracks in the lamp, freeing the nuclear Genie. Confirmed speakers include retired General John Highton, former vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and Frank Miller, a longtime nuclear deterrence expert at the highest levels of the US government. You're going to want to carve out a couple of days on your calendar for this one. We'll also have links to both those events in the show notes next week on at the boundary, our guest will be the author of our most recent genocide decision. Brief. Ryan Gutwein is a US Air Force veteran, Sierra entrepreneur and cybersecurity executive with over 15 years of experience securing defense systems and regulated environments. Ryan. We recently published his decision brief entitled securing the AI supply chain, safeguarding us advantage in the age of generative AI. It's available right now on our website, and we'll make a great jumping off point for next week episode. We hope you'll join us for that. If you don't want to miss that episode or any other episode, be sure to subscribe to the podcast on your favorite podcast platform. We know you have virtually unlimited choices when it comes to choosing which podcast you're going to listen to. We are grateful you chose to share a few minutes with us today. You can find GNSI on YouTube, LinkedIn and x be sure to follow like and subscribe. Tell your friends and colleagues as well. We also have a monthly newsletter, which you should sign up for immediately. All this is on our website at usf.edu/gnsi, that's

Jim Cardoso  45:55

going to wrap up this episode of at the boundary. Each new episode will feature global and national security issues we found to be insightful, intriguing, maybe controversial, but overall, just worth talking about. I'm Jim Cardoso, and we'll see you at the boundary. You.