WEBVTT 00:00:03.759 --> 00:00:06.400 Okay, so we're in the middle of a conversation. 00:00:06.639 --> 00:00:21.679 This is Unplug AACC, and the whole point of this podcast is that we just kind of get to share not like ministry like Capital M church program stuff, but we just kind of share lowercase M ministry stuff. 00:00:21.839 --> 00:00:25.199 But sometimes we have conversations like the one we were in the middle of. 00:00:25.920 --> 00:00:26.559 Okay, Giles. 00:00:27.120 --> 00:00:27.839 Can I set the scene? 00:00:28.079 --> 00:00:28.239 Sure. 00:00:28.399 --> 00:00:28.640 Exactly. 00:00:29.440 --> 00:00:32.640 We're getting ready to start this podcast and we got the lights. 00:00:32.799 --> 00:00:35.039 Some we've got to turn off, some we got to turn on. 00:00:35.200 --> 00:00:38.399 And a lot of times I think there's a slow fade into it. 00:00:38.719 --> 00:00:39.520 Why do you think that? 00:00:39.759 --> 00:00:40.320 I have no idea. 00:00:40.560 --> 00:00:44.399 Like, do you think that we have like a professional union card carrying? 00:00:45.439 --> 00:00:47.119 Slow fade isn't the right term. 00:00:47.679 --> 00:00:48.399 He has an amygdala. 00:00:48.719 --> 00:00:49.600 I wasn't bruised. 00:00:49.920 --> 00:00:50.399 For sure. 00:00:51.039 --> 00:00:52.960 Do you know what the amygdala is? 00:00:53.280 --> 00:00:54.079 I don't know. 00:00:54.320 --> 00:00:56.399 It's an almond-shaped part of the brain, anyway. 00:00:56.640 --> 00:00:59.679 I know medobla almond not a sabbuchet. 00:01:00.320 --> 00:01:00.479 Right. 00:01:01.759 --> 00:01:07.840 But in terms of the intensity, I was expecting like a flick, not a punch, if that makes sense. 00:01:08.079 --> 00:01:13.599 And so I'm looking down at these lights that are staring like wide-eyed at the lights like a deer. 00:01:14.000 --> 00:01:17.280 We're about to get started and ask, should we turn on these lights back here? 00:01:17.519 --> 00:01:23.040 And I'm looking down, looking for the little switch, find it, and then it found me pretty quick. 00:01:23.200 --> 00:01:25.359 I turn it on and I'm just blinded by it. 00:01:25.519 --> 00:01:29.840 And so I have like 16 little dots that I'm seeing. 00:01:30.000 --> 00:01:34.319 And I don't know the technical term for them, but I know they don't last forever. 00:01:34.480 --> 00:01:42.719 And so it's not a scar, but something that is, you know, that shows up, that's an effect that doesn't last forever, is a bruise. 00:01:42.959 --> 00:01:43.920 Am I off here? 00:01:44.159 --> 00:01:47.120 And so I've called those for years now retina bruises. 00:01:47.439 --> 00:01:52.879 I'm thinking my retina's getting a cut on because nobody at this table has ever heard of it. 00:01:57.519 --> 00:01:59.840 They're always there, they're called floaters, right? 00:02:02.560 --> 00:02:03.920 No, I think that's a thing. 00:02:04.239 --> 00:02:06.400 Listen, no, everything's always there. 00:02:06.640 --> 00:02:09.520 Like little black spots, little retina bruises that are always there. 00:02:09.759 --> 00:02:10.719 Retina bruises. 00:02:11.199 --> 00:02:12.479 No, there's a retina scar. 00:02:12.719 --> 00:02:14.400 That's a baby left a mark now. 00:02:14.719 --> 00:02:18.159 But hey, you might need to get that tipped out if they're always there. 00:02:18.400 --> 00:02:19.039 I get it. 00:02:19.120 --> 00:02:19.919 It's clever. 00:02:20.000 --> 00:02:20.719 It really is. 00:02:20.879 --> 00:02:23.599 But the best part was like, hey, no, no, no. 00:02:23.680 --> 00:02:29.599 Like if this catches on, it'll save me so many words to say retina bruises, then to say spots. 00:02:32.800 --> 00:02:33.840 Two words. 00:02:34.159 --> 00:02:35.599 Syllable counts three. 00:02:35.840 --> 00:02:36.240 I don't know. 00:02:39.360 --> 00:02:40.000 Four syllables. 00:02:40.400 --> 00:02:40.719 Two words. 00:02:41.520 --> 00:02:43.039 And I think it's actually retina. 00:02:43.439 --> 00:02:43.840 Retina. 00:02:44.159 --> 00:02:44.800 Yeah, retina. 00:02:45.520 --> 00:02:46.159 It could be three. 00:02:46.240 --> 00:02:46.719 I mean, yeah. 00:02:47.039 --> 00:02:47.680 Let's ask Dr. 00:02:47.759 --> 00:02:48.240 Kamali. 00:02:48.719 --> 00:02:52.400 But you're not considering how much smarter I sound when I say retinal bruises. 00:02:53.039 --> 00:02:54.159 Versus seeing spots. 00:02:54.639 --> 00:02:56.560 No, I think that no one is. 00:02:59.199 --> 00:03:00.000 Never been a thought. 00:03:01.280 --> 00:03:07.199 Nobody walked away from the conversation about spots and said, Yeah, I think retinant bruises is brilliant. 00:03:07.439 --> 00:03:10.000 People are going to come up later and go, oh, talk to that guy. 00:03:10.080 --> 00:03:11.520 He says things funny. 00:03:12.400 --> 00:03:14.319 And said that I get more words. 00:03:15.199 --> 00:03:16.319 More chances to win. 00:03:16.560 --> 00:03:16.879 Oh. 00:03:17.680 --> 00:03:18.240 Oh my God. 00:03:18.560 --> 00:03:22.560 Okay, so I don't even know what we're supposed to talk about, but like I'm not grief. 00:03:23.120 --> 00:03:25.680 And I'm just grief. 00:03:26.000 --> 00:03:26.719 Charlie Brown. 00:03:27.280 --> 00:03:32.000 I feel like retina bruises are more encapsulating of that than seeing spots. 00:03:32.159 --> 00:03:38.719 I think when you say seeing spots out of context, you need some more context to it versus just retina bruises. 00:03:38.879 --> 00:03:40.879 I feel like that kind of nails it. 00:03:41.280 --> 00:03:46.879 Okay, so uh make the transition then from retina bruises to grief. 00:03:47.199 --> 00:03:47.680 You ready for this? 00:03:47.919 --> 00:03:48.400 Yeah, we're ready. 00:03:48.719 --> 00:03:53.360 We go to commercial break and then we come back and then just talk about something completely different. 00:03:53.840 --> 00:03:54.800 We need a TV timeout. 00:03:55.039 --> 00:03:55.599 What's the commercial break? 00:03:57.759 --> 00:04:02.560 Somebody wants to like be an ad in our I don't I don't know who we would be. 00:04:02.879 --> 00:04:05.840 We've thrown this out several episodes. 00:04:06.800 --> 00:04:10.560 Like, I mean Chick-fil-A, please, please, Chick-fil-A. 00:04:10.960 --> 00:04:12.719 Dan Kathy, if you're listening. 00:04:14.080 --> 00:04:15.199 Or Taco Casa. 00:04:15.439 --> 00:04:16.879 I love Taco Casa. 00:04:17.439 --> 00:04:17.759 Okay. 00:04:17.920 --> 00:04:20.079 So you're willing to do it for coupons. 00:04:20.480 --> 00:04:20.879 Yeah. 00:04:21.199 --> 00:04:22.560 Like a burrito. 00:04:22.959 --> 00:04:24.160 But we never sponsor their things. 00:04:24.560 --> 00:04:25.279 Sponsorship. 00:04:25.519 --> 00:04:26.800 We never show off their products. 00:04:27.120 --> 00:04:28.800 Taco Casa has the best. 00:04:29.920 --> 00:04:31.839 So you're going to get burritos before the next one. 00:04:32.240 --> 00:04:34.000 I don't think our viewers won. 00:04:35.120 --> 00:04:36.319 While we're doing a podcast. 00:04:36.879 --> 00:04:43.920 Man, if I'm listening to a podcast and somebody's talking about eating a Taco Casa burrito and I can hear them, I'm like, I'm getting in the car. 00:04:44.399 --> 00:04:45.199 I'm going there. 00:04:45.360 --> 00:04:50.000 Even if I have to stare at the sun and get retina bruises on the way, I'm going for my burrito. 00:04:50.240 --> 00:04:51.519 You're going to smell it through the radio. 00:04:55.120 --> 00:04:56.480 And the transition is. 00:04:56.720 --> 00:04:57.040 Yeah. 00:04:57.279 --> 00:05:00.959 Well, during grief, it it feels like it's the only thing that you can see. 00:05:01.040 --> 00:05:02.000 It's always present. 00:05:02.079 --> 00:05:05.120 You still see other things, but it's always there. 00:05:05.279 --> 00:05:12.160 But the intensity is limited in the same way that like I bet your vision is relatively back to normal. 00:05:12.319 --> 00:05:12.560 Yeah. 00:05:12.800 --> 00:05:14.240 So there's my transition. 00:05:14.560 --> 00:05:20.160 I don't know if blinking faster makes it go away faster, but it you can see it for that split second when you blink. 00:05:20.240 --> 00:05:20.399 Yeah. 00:05:20.639 --> 00:05:24.720 I don't know what your what reach that would have in your analogy. 00:05:25.439 --> 00:05:27.360 Well well, now we're stretching out a four. 00:05:27.600 --> 00:05:30.160 I mean you see it, you notice it more with your eyes closed, right? 00:05:30.399 --> 00:05:33.040 When you're not trying to look beyond, like that's all you can see. 00:05:33.360 --> 00:05:33.920 That's good. 00:05:35.199 --> 00:05:39.360 So this is related to what we just did, but just kind of a funny story. 00:05:39.519 --> 00:05:47.519 So I preached in Hobbes a couple weeks ago, and uh my daughter goes, Dad, that lesson was fine, but the transitions were really clunky. 00:05:47.680 --> 00:05:50.000 And I'm like, You're such a church brat. 00:05:50.800 --> 00:05:53.759 You have grown up in a minister's family, it is obvious. 00:05:54.160 --> 00:05:55.120 Do you have slides? 00:05:55.360 --> 00:05:55.680 No. 00:05:56.000 --> 00:05:56.319 Okay. 00:05:56.560 --> 00:06:01.519 So you're for sure that she was talking about transitions from one point to the next and not between your slides. 00:06:01.920 --> 00:06:02.160 Oh, sir. 00:06:02.720 --> 00:06:03.120 No, sir. 00:06:04.079 --> 00:06:04.480 Oh yeah. 00:06:04.560 --> 00:06:05.519 Yeah, absolutely. 00:06:05.759 --> 00:06:06.160 Yeah, yeah. 00:06:07.199 --> 00:06:10.319 Anyway, so Did you ask how she would have done it? 00:06:11.199 --> 00:06:12.240 How should I have done it? 00:06:13.040 --> 00:06:15.680 No, I I I was done at that point. 00:06:15.920 --> 00:06:17.439 I was like, yeah, I don't want to hear that. 00:06:17.680 --> 00:06:18.959 Thanks for the feedback. 00:06:19.519 --> 00:06:22.160 Okay, so we've transitioned to grief then. 00:06:22.480 --> 00:06:25.439 Well, I've heard recently I like math. 00:06:25.600 --> 00:06:30.720 I like math terms that is it grief shared, it's kind of a famous one, y'all might know it. 00:06:30.879 --> 00:06:33.920 Grief shared with someone is cut in half. 00:06:34.160 --> 00:06:41.360 So if I'm bearing the grief of something and I share it with people, now I don't feel as much grief now that that version has been shared. 00:06:41.519 --> 00:06:46.959 Um but praise or something that you're joyous about that you're sharing is multiplied. 00:06:47.360 --> 00:06:49.279 I have a lot of joy and I share it with y'all. 00:06:49.439 --> 00:06:50.800 I don't have less of it now. 00:06:50.959 --> 00:06:53.519 Now we all have more because of something great that's happened. 00:06:53.920 --> 00:06:54.560 Yeah, that makes sense. 00:06:54.879 --> 00:06:56.879 Is that y'all's experience with it? 00:06:57.040 --> 00:07:01.279 Romans says rejoice with those who rejoice, so multiplying. 00:07:01.439 --> 00:07:01.519 Yeah. 00:07:01.759 --> 00:07:06.720 Galatians says to bear one another's burdens, so dividing. 00:07:07.439 --> 00:07:08.800 And there's a time for everything, right? 00:07:08.879 --> 00:07:12.720 Like I don't think we're saying we should only be multipliers, right? 00:07:12.879 --> 00:07:15.920 We should be willing to cut someone's grief in half. 00:07:16.639 --> 00:07:17.680 Cut someone's burdens in half. 00:07:19.279 --> 00:07:23.759 It's just hard because people don't like to talk about people don't like to burden others. 00:07:24.079 --> 00:07:33.519 Because if you if you think about it that way, if you think, well, I'm I'm gonna deal with this on my own, I'm gonna take care of it on my own, but but that dividing thing, like I don't need they don't need to worry about that. 00:07:33.600 --> 00:07:37.759 I don't want to put that on them to have to think about or worry about for me. 00:07:38.240 --> 00:07:43.040 Um but it but Christ calls us to carry one another's burdens. 00:07:43.519 --> 00:07:54.560 So I don't think it's as hard to share your joys as compared to your burdens, but I think some people do have a hard time also sharing their joys with people too. 00:07:54.879 --> 00:08:02.160 Um perhaps for looking like they're not seeming prideful or arrogant, yeah, boastful about whatever's going on. 00:08:04.879 --> 00:08:05.920 What do you think, Doug? 00:08:07.360 --> 00:08:08.639 I have lots of thoughts. 00:08:09.439 --> 00:08:17.439 I don't know if any of them are good or worth uh being heard over the air uh while you're thinking about your um Taco Casa burrito. 00:08:18.319 --> 00:08:28.399 Um one thing I think is interesting, and I um I'm not trying to to bag on this lady because she's amazing and what she did was really phenomenal. 00:08:28.560 --> 00:08:31.199 She came up with uh five stages of grief. 00:08:31.360 --> 00:08:34.159 Her name is uh Elizabeth Kubler uh Kubler Ross. 00:08:34.320 --> 00:08:36.799 It was back a long time ago, certainly before Giles was born. 00:08:36.879 --> 00:08:41.120 I don't know if it was before me or not, but she came up with the stages of grief. 00:08:41.200 --> 00:08:42.960 I think almost everybody's familiar with it. 00:08:43.039 --> 00:08:47.360 It's uh denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. 00:08:47.679 --> 00:08:48.639 Um and I love it. 00:08:48.720 --> 00:08:49.200 I love it. 00:08:49.279 --> 00:08:52.000 I think that's I I think that's is important. 00:08:52.399 --> 00:09:09.039 However, I think some people have taken that and assume that rather than uh they they treat it as like a walkway, like you're gonna start in um denial, and then once you finish through that, you'll transition into anger and then to bargain. 00:09:09.360 --> 00:09:10.080 Okay, right. 00:09:10.240 --> 00:09:19.360 And so I I think where the the the problem is in that people assume that they are are going to go from one to the next to the next. 00:09:19.679 --> 00:09:24.639 That that grief is not something that you're like stage one complete, now let's go on to stage two. 00:09:25.039 --> 00:09:35.759 And I think that's why that's so detrimental to a lot of people as as they experience grief as it happens, um, you're you you might be in denial one day. 00:09:36.000 --> 00:09:37.360 You're just gonna be all over the place. 00:09:37.759 --> 00:09:41.039 They are concurrent and not a consecutive sequence. 00:09:41.519 --> 00:09:50.960 But a lot of well not maybe well-knowing, I don't know what the word well-meaning well-meaning people will hand somebody a book and then they think, okay, this is a checklist. 00:09:51.200 --> 00:09:57.360 Like I'm reading this book, okay, I'm in chapter one, I need to be feeling chapter one, chapter two, and if that's the stages. 00:09:58.159 --> 00:10:05.519 There's a band that actually based a album on those five stages, and the interstitials are actually titled those things. 00:10:06.080 --> 00:10:07.120 Yeah, it's pretty fascinating. 00:10:08.000 --> 00:10:09.279 It took them five albums. 00:10:09.519 --> 00:10:09.679 No. 00:10:10.000 --> 00:10:10.080 Okay. 00:10:10.320 --> 00:10:10.639 One album. 00:10:10.879 --> 00:10:11.840 One album through. 00:10:12.080 --> 00:10:12.240 Yeah. 00:10:13.679 --> 00:10:16.559 So that was some of the Backstreet Boys best album. 00:10:18.240 --> 00:10:27.759 So how I would like to describe it, and this is I I mean, this could be way off, but but for me, I would imagine like uh I actually use this as an illustration one time. 00:10:27.919 --> 00:10:49.519 I got some some carpet tiles and just started out with like a carpet tile, and like when grief happens, you're on that tile, and that tile is the tile of grief, um, the the tile of just you're you're always weeping, you're emotional, you're overwhelmed, you can't imagine life, you know, moving on. 00:10:50.320 --> 00:11:07.200 And then after a period of time, uh another carpet tile is introduced, and that's that's the carpet tile in which like it's not like you can imagine that you can live after the grief. 00:11:07.600 --> 00:11:14.080 And then you step on that tile, but then you get right back on the the the one, and then you start adding more tiles. 00:11:14.559 --> 00:11:33.279 And so my my point is is that that grief never goes away, but you can come to a point in your life where you can add more tiles back in to where you can start to experience a different kind of normal even while you find yourself going back to that that grief. 00:11:33.360 --> 00:11:45.200 And I I think you can find yourself in in that deep grief for a really long time, but sometimes you you might go a couple days without dealing with it, and and then sometimes you just like sit down on it. 00:11:45.360 --> 00:11:45.759 I don't know. 00:11:45.840 --> 00:11:47.120 That's just how I I see it. 00:11:47.360 --> 00:11:48.159 That's a good visual stuff. 00:11:48.480 --> 00:11:50.559 We played a lot of the floor's lava growing up. 00:11:50.879 --> 00:11:55.039 You're looking at the 2009 reigning Wooten living room champion right now. 00:11:55.120 --> 00:12:01.919 Yeah, that's and and we would you know do it with pillows or whatever we had around the house, and yeah, you would jump from one to the next. 00:12:02.159 --> 00:12:02.320 Yes. 00:12:02.559 --> 00:12:02.720 Right? 00:12:02.799 --> 00:12:05.759 You wouldn't straddle it, you wouldn't have two right beside each other. 00:12:05.840 --> 00:12:06.960 That's not challenging at all. 00:12:07.120 --> 00:12:08.559 You were only on the one that you were on. 00:12:08.720 --> 00:12:08.879 Yeah. 00:12:09.039 --> 00:12:10.720 And you're saying it it's not like that at all. 00:12:10.960 --> 00:12:14.000 You don't jump from what denial and then what's the second one? 00:12:14.320 --> 00:12:16.000 Uh anger. 00:12:16.399 --> 00:12:17.759 Anger anger bargaining. 00:12:18.080 --> 00:12:22.639 You don't jump from that one to anger, and now you're just in anger and not in denial anymore. 00:12:22.879 --> 00:12:23.039 Yeah. 00:12:23.279 --> 00:12:24.960 I'm just saying you could have your foot on both. 00:12:25.200 --> 00:12:31.600 I I'm just saying, and then you'll go back to it, and then you like I just think like you're always there's always this this movement. 00:12:31.840 --> 00:12:42.559 But I mean, honestly, you for the first I don't want to say it and you know a timeline, but but for the majority of uh as you're first going through it, you're just stuck on that one tile. 00:12:42.720 --> 00:12:48.799 And you can't even imagine you can't imagine laughing again, you can't imagine there being joy. 00:12:50.000 --> 00:13:03.600 You are frustrated that there are other people around you that laugh and have joy, and you're baffled that when you go to the grocery store and you can't even imagine having to buy food and eating. 00:13:03.840 --> 00:13:06.480 There are people around you just like living their life. 00:13:06.720 --> 00:13:09.039 And so it's just so overwhelming. 00:13:09.120 --> 00:13:11.840 But I just think it it's it's very fluid. 00:13:12.320 --> 00:13:14.960 And I'm I'm sure um uh Dr. 00:13:15.120 --> 00:13:20.799 Kubler Ross would would say, Oh yeah, I'm but we've taken those stages and I think we've turned those. 00:13:22.879 --> 00:13:25.840 Yes, we've taken we've turned them one, two, three, four, oh, five, we're done. 00:13:25.919 --> 00:13:26.879 And you're like, oh no. 00:13:27.279 --> 00:13:30.480 Tomorrow you may be back at you know, denial. 00:13:30.960 --> 00:13:35.600 Jerry Leslie probably could correct a lot of our lack of clinical understanding. 00:13:35.919 --> 00:13:41.440 But yeah, I think that that was written around like end of life stage patients, yeah, right? 00:13:41.519 --> 00:13:44.639 And we apply it to every other situation in life. 00:13:44.799 --> 00:13:52.639 And so yeah, the pop culture version of that can not be as helpful as actually living through it and getting help from somebody. 00:13:53.120 --> 00:14:01.120 So although it's not beneficial to use it as a roadmap or as a timeline, do you think it's a net positive that we all have that language now? 00:14:02.240 --> 00:14:10.000 I think so because what it does is it it helps us see that grief uh can manif manifest itself in a lot of different ways. 00:14:10.240 --> 00:14:10.720 Yeah. 00:14:10.960 --> 00:14:12.879 Um and everybody grieves differently. 00:14:13.039 --> 00:14:21.279 You know, the example I always like to give is, you know, Job, you know, his whole family um, you know, dies just about all his kids die. 00:14:21.360 --> 00:14:26.080 He loses almost everything, and like he's in the ash heap and he's he's mourning fully. 00:14:26.480 --> 00:14:36.000 And and his wife, like I always imagine she like opens up the screen door and yells at him, curse God and die, and then slams the the screen door shut. 00:14:36.159 --> 00:14:41.120 And I think we're very harsh with her, and like, how dare how dare she act like that? 00:14:41.200 --> 00:14:42.879 And you're like, wait, come out. 00:14:42.960 --> 00:14:45.919 Like she she lost her kids too. 00:14:46.240 --> 00:14:56.799 And so everybody grieves differently, and so there are some very there are some unhealthy ways to grieve, but she lost her kids, her husband ha was covered in sores, yeah. 00:14:56.960 --> 00:15:00.240 Um he was mourning, yes, yeah, all their livelihood was gone. 00:15:00.720 --> 00:15:05.440 Yeah, and so I I I think we should just recognize that everybody grieves a little differently. 00:15:05.679 --> 00:15:09.200 Yeah, and all the disciples grieved differently. 00:15:09.279 --> 00:15:12.080 Everybody at the cross was grieving differently. 00:15:12.159 --> 00:15:12.320 Yeah. 00:15:12.559 --> 00:15:18.320 Um as and and then that symbol, kind of like that carpet square, is the cross that we look back to. 00:15:18.480 --> 00:15:25.840 How does that make, you know, maybe we go through different times in our life where looking at the symbol of the cross makes us feel different things. 00:15:26.159 --> 00:15:42.240 Um if we're, you know, if we're of course probably not denial, but I mean sometimes it can bring us comfort and sometimes it, you know, if you're really examining yourself, you can feel a lot of guilt and shame when you think about the sirac the sacrifice that was given. 00:15:42.320 --> 00:15:46.879 And and so you can go through different things um when we look at the cross. 00:15:49.279 --> 00:15:55.759 What I like about what I see in the Bible about working through grief is kind of two things. 00:15:56.080 --> 00:16:02.000 How many times the body physically is used to work through grief and through emotional pain. 00:16:02.159 --> 00:16:07.919 It's just how many times the tearing of garments and um sackcloth and ash. 00:16:08.080 --> 00:16:12.320 Um, I think about David fasting when his infant is sick. 00:16:12.559 --> 00:16:18.399 Um, and then once the infant dies, he's like, Okay, I'm gonna get up and eat and shower and feel better. 00:16:18.480 --> 00:16:20.879 And he says some of those poignant words. 00:16:21.039 --> 00:16:39.360 I you know, he he can't come to me talking about his his deceased infant child, but I can go be with him, and how and and how he uses his body to work through that and how they had rituals in their cultures of grief, and we used to have them in the West and we no longer do. 00:16:39.600 --> 00:16:46.320 Like a period of mourning in which people would wear black and just how we've kind of like lost all that ritual. 00:16:46.960 --> 00:16:54.080 They would even hire people to cry, they would hire the whalers or sit shiva or whatever. 00:16:54.639 --> 00:17:02.000 But even since COVID, even the time period from from when somebody passes until the funeral is held. 00:17:02.159 --> 00:17:10.000 I mean, before just because of the biology of the body and the decay of the body, like you had to have the funeral within three, four, five days. 00:17:10.480 --> 00:17:12.559 Well, now it's sometimes six weeks. 00:17:13.119 --> 00:17:15.759 And so just a lot of the ritual um we've lost. 00:17:16.000 --> 00:17:17.599 And I I think we've lost a lot. 00:17:17.680 --> 00:17:17.839 Yeah. 00:17:18.079 --> 00:17:25.920 And we've lost touch with using our bodies to work through grief, um, and and fasting and mourning and just just a whole lot of things. 00:17:26.160 --> 00:17:26.400 Yeah. 00:17:26.640 --> 00:17:36.400 Well, I was is years ago, I was in a um a class ministering uh to grieving, and it was done by uh uh a chaplain. 00:17:37.039 --> 00:17:41.440 Uh he just did I thought he did a phenomenal job and just really eye-opening for me. 00:17:41.599 --> 00:18:01.119 But um one of the things that uh that I remember well there's so much that he said, but um one of the things that I I remember he was talking about is you know, you you you go through these different stages and and you don't know when they happen, but uh or or they you jump around a lot. 00:18:01.200 --> 00:18:12.720 But he said what was really interesting I thought was he said the way that that our our society grieves is vastly different from a lot of cultures in the world even today. 00:18:13.119 --> 00:18:35.920 He says, you know, you think about this, um like the the moment that somebody dies, um a phone call is made, a lot of times the people leave the room, uh you have somebody who come in, they will take the the body, and then you don't see that body again um maybe for several more days, um, and maybe not even really at all. 00:18:36.640 --> 00:18:41.279 Um it's you know, it's if it's a closed casket type of deal. 00:18:41.599 --> 00:18:44.400 Uh and then air it's all done very sterile. 00:18:44.559 --> 00:19:04.640 The the body's taken away, it's cleaned up, it's there's makeup, there's you know, everything is done, the the suit is, you know, and and they're like you just you're not allowing yourself to really grieve and and have closures kind of a um that's a a pop culture type of a word. 00:19:04.960 --> 00:19:06.319 But yeah, it's loaded. 00:19:06.640 --> 00:19:16.319 Um but he said there's cultures that like we think it's really weird, but like they'll have somebody who dies and they'll keep the body um there for several days. 00:19:16.480 --> 00:19:23.680 Uh and they they'll do some preparations there, but but you might have the body remain in the house for you know a week. 00:19:24.079 --> 00:19:27.839 Um and then Isn't that what a wake originally was? 00:19:27.920 --> 00:19:34.880 Is you sat up with the deceased to make sure that vermin and rats and stuff I mean like just the reality. 00:19:35.200 --> 00:19:35.599 Yeah. 00:19:35.839 --> 00:19:39.039 Um just the biology, the lack of sterility. 00:19:39.359 --> 00:19:41.200 And we don't live in that culture anymore. 00:19:41.759 --> 00:19:48.160 And just the the people coming and the wailing in the morning, and and you just you threw yourself into that. 00:19:48.400 --> 00:19:52.400 You know, whereas, you know, like you said, we'll be like, oh, you know, somebody died. 00:19:52.480 --> 00:19:57.119 Well, you know, we're gonna have a a memorial service for them in six weeks or whatever. 00:19:57.200 --> 00:20:02.799 And when it's convenient for people to get there and I think things changed in the Acts Church. 00:20:02.880 --> 00:20:05.599 Like they were excited when somebody died for Christ. 00:20:05.839 --> 00:20:08.480 You know, like I think funerals probably did change maybe. 00:20:09.119 --> 00:20:11.920 They did celebrate when like martyrs died. 00:20:12.079 --> 00:20:14.559 And that did catch the attention of the Roman world. 00:20:14.960 --> 00:20:15.440 For sure. 00:20:15.599 --> 00:20:21.279 Because they were they were not hiring the whalers, they were excited that they had died for the cause of Christ. 00:20:21.440 --> 00:20:24.000 And so that maybe that started the change. 00:20:24.319 --> 00:20:25.920 And this is where we are now. 00:20:26.240 --> 00:20:26.480 Yeah. 00:20:26.799 --> 00:20:30.400 So we we have more celebrations of life. 00:20:30.559 --> 00:20:40.559 I feel like there's more I mean there are some some funerals where there's a full-on sermon, like, okay, guys, this guy didn't get right, but you better come forward as we stand and sing. 00:20:40.720 --> 00:20:50.720 Um, but then there's also those for like, we're y'all are sad, but we're not, you know, we're not sad for this this person because we know they're with Jesus and they're not hurting anymore or sad anymore. 00:20:51.359 --> 00:20:51.519 Yeah. 00:20:52.000 --> 00:20:54.640 This is a victory, celebration of life. 00:20:54.960 --> 00:20:55.599 Yeah. 00:20:56.160 --> 00:20:58.160 So just weird question. 00:20:58.319 --> 00:21:04.640 Um, have any of you guys have y'all thought about what you want your funeral to be like? 00:21:04.799 --> 00:21:08.160 Have you thought of any songs or anything? 00:21:08.480 --> 00:21:10.559 Or am I the only weird one at the table? 00:21:10.880 --> 00:21:13.200 No, I haven't thought of maybe songs. 00:21:13.759 --> 00:21:20.319 I think we wrote down some songs, or I did, I think, and stuck them like with our social security cards and birth certificates. 00:21:20.400 --> 00:21:20.720 I don't know. 00:21:21.119 --> 00:21:21.920 I don't think I did that. 00:21:22.240 --> 00:21:22.720 You did it? 00:21:22.880 --> 00:21:23.039 No. 00:21:23.440 --> 00:21:23.759 Okay. 00:21:24.559 --> 00:21:24.960 Let's see. 00:21:25.039 --> 00:21:26.319 I'm gonna have to go back and we've got it. 00:21:26.880 --> 00:21:27.920 Oh, you have it in your phone. 00:21:28.079 --> 00:21:30.319 I think I knew I think you've showed me this before. 00:21:30.640 --> 00:21:37.359 Uh well, actually, I just here we go on May 25th, and so today's the 29th, right? 00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:38.799 So it's four days ago. 00:21:39.039 --> 00:21:58.000 We we were going somewhere, and I don't know what had sparked this conversation, but we were in the car and I'm like, oh yeah, I I I'm gonna hear some songs that I wanted, and so I actually have two, four I have my whole I have the whole order of you have the whole discography of Force Frank on there? 00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:03.359 Dude, I may have to add a a a forced Frank song. 00:22:03.599 --> 00:22:07.200 There's gonna be hopefully a lot more songs that you like between now and then. 00:22:07.519 --> 00:22:09.119 But I think that's updated. 00:22:09.279 --> 00:22:09.920 Yeah, I'm gonna have to add that. 00:22:10.079 --> 00:22:11.920 If you think about it, those songs do stick with you. 00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:13.680 Like I still know the songs. 00:22:13.839 --> 00:22:24.400 Like there's there's there are a couple songs that when I hear them, like that was at this person's funeral, that was at this person's funeral, and I'll never forget it because it meant a lot. 00:22:24.720 --> 00:22:27.200 That that encapsulated that person's life to me. 00:22:27.839 --> 00:22:30.079 And yeah, they become a part of that song. 00:22:30.400 --> 00:22:31.599 They become a part of that song. 00:22:32.160 --> 00:22:36.000 I remember hearing Josh Turner's Long Black Train at a funeral. 00:22:36.319 --> 00:22:36.559 Okay. 00:22:36.799 --> 00:22:37.920 Yeah, that stuck with me. 00:22:38.160 --> 00:22:38.559 Yeah. 00:22:38.799 --> 00:22:39.359 Yeah. 00:22:39.680 --> 00:22:40.000 Yeah. 00:22:40.160 --> 00:22:45.039 So I I made a list of all my songs, and I I went ahead and made an order. 00:22:45.200 --> 00:22:46.400 Jennifer was with me. 00:22:46.559 --> 00:22:47.359 We were in the car. 00:22:47.440 --> 00:22:50.000 She she told me three songs that she wanted. 00:22:50.160 --> 00:22:59.920 And then I just I emailed it to all my kids and said, Hey, just like I don't expect that you'll need this for a while, but just in case, like here's here's what I want. 00:23:00.160 --> 00:23:02.480 Like did they all take an email you back? 00:23:02.720 --> 00:23:06.160 No, I don't think anybody crickets like, okay, thanks. 00:23:07.039 --> 00:23:07.599 Thanks, Dad. 00:23:07.920 --> 00:23:16.720 So yeah, no, my my dad has emailed me the order for his service, um, that what he wants, the songs that he wants, and everything like that. 00:23:16.799 --> 00:23:35.920 And so I'm I've I'm I wish w that's another thing, and and well this might be for another day, but I really wish um both as a culture or at least as a church, we would embrace more the reality that we're all going to die uh and prepare for it. 00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:38.880 Mm spiritually most importantly. 00:23:39.200 --> 00:23:52.319 But um there are so many people out there, bless their hearts, that that they are not ready uh legally, they're not ready financially, they're not ready um anyway. 00:23:52.559 --> 00:23:59.039 Uh and so then they leave uh and then all their family is left with all these questions. 00:23:59.519 --> 00:24:08.480 Uh and again, we we give ourselves more time than we used to, but there is a time where like when when somebody died, you had three days to figure this out. 00:24:09.039 --> 00:24:23.759 And unfortunately, there have been more than a few fights that have um that have uh w waged have been waged because um you know the the dad didn't just sit down and say, Hey, here's something I want. 00:24:24.000 --> 00:24:26.240 Uh here's what I want this to look like. 00:24:26.400 --> 00:24:43.359 And um it's an emotional time and uh people things matter more than they should, and they say, Oh, well, you know, his his favorite color is red because of his car, and he wouldn't have wanted the red tie, and you know, the other sister says, No, he wanted blue because that's what he wore at my wedding. 00:24:43.440 --> 00:24:50.480 He said this was his favorite tie, and then you're just like all of a sudden everything has so much uh much greater importance. 00:24:50.799 --> 00:24:54.720 And if you just say, Hey, here's what I want, being clear is kind. 00:24:54.960 --> 00:24:55.440 Yes. 00:24:56.079 --> 00:24:57.119 Um anyway. 00:24:57.680 --> 00:25:02.720 Wasn't there a book that you read that's really good that kind of helped lay some of those things out? 00:25:03.279 --> 00:25:10.799 Being mortal is uh is a pretty excellent book on death and dying that has nothing to do with faith at all. 00:25:11.200 --> 00:25:14.799 Just kind of the realities and the medical side, and yeah, yeah, it's a really good book. 00:25:14.960 --> 00:25:15.200 Yeah. 00:25:16.000 --> 00:25:21.200 Um and and you have a love list that you offer a piece of. 00:25:21.680 --> 00:25:21.839 Yeah. 00:25:22.000 --> 00:25:24.640 Um I I hope I'm not saying it wrong. 00:25:24.720 --> 00:25:26.000 I think it's Steve Sandifer. 00:25:26.240 --> 00:25:28.960 Uh he's the one who No, no, no, no, he's not the one. 00:25:29.039 --> 00:25:38.880 He he uh he's I I'm getting a little confused, but uh his it's called My Love List was introduced to me while I was in that uh class for griefing. 00:25:39.039 --> 00:25:55.839 Uh and it's like a 40-page document and it has basically everything, uh all the questions that you'd want to ask from legal issues to medical power of attorney to um here's who I want to have my car, uh a place for the will, all that stuff. 00:25:56.000 --> 00:26:05.279 Uh I've seen uh a little bit uh advertised um recently, uh I can't remember, I think it's called the knockbox or something like that. 00:26:05.440 --> 00:26:07.440 It's something that you can buy online. 00:26:08.160 --> 00:26:09.599 Does that stand for something? 00:26:09.920 --> 00:26:10.480 I have no idea. 00:26:12.079 --> 00:26:12.799 Oh dear. 00:26:13.119 --> 00:26:15.119 I have no idea, but uh it probably does. 00:26:15.920 --> 00:26:24.000 That's what it is, and it's only because we've lived in a town with a packing plant do we have weird feelings about knockbox. 00:26:24.480 --> 00:26:26.160 There's something that's called a knock gun. 00:26:26.400 --> 00:26:26.880 Oh, okay. 00:26:27.200 --> 00:26:27.440 Yeah. 00:26:27.680 --> 00:26:29.279 It has a lot to do with quick death. 00:26:29.920 --> 00:26:30.079 Okay. 00:26:30.319 --> 00:26:32.319 Well no, I don't think it's got anything to do with that. 00:26:32.880 --> 00:26:38.000 But it's it's basically you you buy this um if it stands for next of kin. 00:26:38.319 --> 00:26:39.119 Next of kin. 00:26:40.079 --> 00:26:40.400 There we go. 00:26:40.559 --> 00:26:43.119 So it's not a 22 caliber. 00:26:44.559 --> 00:26:44.640 Yeah. 00:26:44.960 --> 00:26:46.400 I just have this terrible vision. 00:26:50.640 --> 00:26:51.440 Oh my goodness. 00:26:51.839 --> 00:26:52.720 Next of kin. 00:26:52.960 --> 00:26:59.680 Next of kin kill it a next of kin box for all the people that grew up near a beef slaughterhouse, Doug. 00:27:01.440 --> 00:27:02.559 Which would be Jamie and I. 00:27:02.720 --> 00:27:04.880 I was trying to think of a five-letter acronym. 00:27:05.119 --> 00:27:06.319 K-N-O-C-K. 00:27:07.680 --> 00:27:09.519 That is quite the name. 00:27:10.559 --> 00:27:16.319 So yeah, I think I could be wrong, but I think there's a responsive. 00:27:16.720 --> 00:27:18.720 Anyway, it burned down. 00:27:19.039 --> 00:27:32.400 So I'm not making any promises, but I hope someday soon that I I would love to get uh a group of folks together uh and and have a little, for lack of a better word, a seminar. 00:27:32.559 --> 00:27:37.200 Uh and bring in a doctor and say, hey, here's some things you you would want to think about. 00:27:37.440 --> 00:27:41.359 Um uh a medical doctor and say, here's some things to think about. 00:27:41.519 --> 00:27:43.599 Like w what do these terms mean? 00:27:43.759 --> 00:27:44.319 What does it mean? 00:27:44.480 --> 00:27:46.720 What's a DNR, those types of things. 00:27:46.880 --> 00:28:00.480 Uh bring in an attorney and talk about what's a will and what's medical power of attorney, and uh bring in somebody from the um a funeral home and say, here's some questions that are gonna be asked, and uh bring in a lot of those that aren't common. 00:28:00.799 --> 00:28:11.920 Yeah, and bring in a counselor to say, here's some of the issues you're gonna have, and a minister to say, here's some of the spiritual issues that you might encounter, and just uh and and say, okay. 00:28:12.160 --> 00:28:15.920 Um it is it's crazy. 00:28:16.079 --> 00:28:16.640 It's crazy. 00:28:16.799 --> 00:28:49.839 And unfortunately, sometimes because we we as a culture we're not really good at griefing, um, and it makes us really uncomfortable, we love to slap band-aids on all that stuff, and we can say some pretty awful things, uh well meaning, but but really awful things, and so um just kind of talk about hey, sometimes some some people who really love you are gonna unintentionally say something that is gonna feel like a dagger going in you, and you just have to say, Yeah, they you you have to think about what they meant, not what they said. 00:28:50.799 --> 00:28:53.039 So anyway, I'd like to do that sometime. 00:28:53.519 --> 00:28:55.279 Can I talk about our Lord for just a second? 00:28:56.160 --> 00:29:00.720 One uh Jesus mourns in the Bible. 00:29:01.200 --> 00:29:03.359 He the death of Lazarus, he weeps. 00:29:03.519 --> 00:29:07.279 When John the Baptist dies, Jesus goes off to be alone. 00:29:07.759 --> 00:29:08.960 Like understandable. 00:29:09.759 --> 00:29:12.079 I I like to do that when I need to be alone. 00:29:12.160 --> 00:29:14.720 I like to go find a mountain and go climb it and be alone. 00:29:14.960 --> 00:29:17.759 Well, because it's Jesus, the crowds follow him. 00:29:18.079 --> 00:29:26.559 And I think that Jesus chose to go do what John would have done, which was be out in the country and preach to the crowds and preach about the kingdom of God. 00:29:26.720 --> 00:29:30.400 And so during your time of grief, go and be alone. 00:29:30.720 --> 00:29:36.400 But when you're ready again, use that as an opportunity to do the good that person would have done. 00:29:36.559 --> 00:29:39.839 And that's a way to multiply the good and also to share the grief. 00:29:40.079 --> 00:29:40.400 Yeah. 00:29:40.720 --> 00:29:40.880 Yeah. 00:29:41.440 --> 00:29:43.279 So just just tap into what Jesus did. 00:29:43.599 --> 00:29:49.680 Yeah, it is it is healthy to go through um, you know, that that valley. 00:29:49.920 --> 00:29:53.440 Uh just just don't pitch a tent and and don't build a house. 00:29:53.759 --> 00:29:54.400 Yeah, certainly. 00:29:55.680 --> 00:29:57.039 Would you like to close us a prayer? 00:29:57.920 --> 00:29:59.839 Lord and God, I just thank you for being so good. 00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:35.039 Um we are so humble and grateful um as we talk about grief to know that we follow a a Savior who grieved, who's who shared every hurt that we've had, um, who's experienced death and loss, and uh we we just want to pray that we're faithful in those times, that um as we process through those things and as we go through them, we we want to do it as people who have hope and people who believe and who people believe in a God who's going to undo death and um and and and who's going to make dry every tear. 00:30:35.200 --> 00:30:36.000 And we just thank you. 00:30:36.079 --> 00:30:38.400 It's in the name of Christ that we all pray. 00:30:38.559 --> 00:30:39.039 Amen.