Autism Labs
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Autism Labs
Autism Transition to Adulthood Programs: Expert Guidance from Round Rock School District
Autism Labs: Transition Programming in Round Rock School District
This episode features representatives from Round Rock School District, one of the larger school districts in the greater Austin, Texas area. The discussion centers on transition programming for students with autism and developmental disabilities, led by Patti Cole, a transition teacher, and Will Renfro, the transition coordinator for the district.
Round Rock's transition program currently serves over 70 students at different support levels. Approximately 15 of these students have higher-level support needs and are in the 18+ program, while the remaining students work on living skills and work skills, with some holding paid employment positions in the community.
Key recommendations for parents entering transition include: (1) getting on Medicaid waiver lists early, such as HCS, Bluebonnet Trails, and Integral Care, as younger enrollment leads to faster access to financial resources; (2) collaborating with school parent liaisons and educating oneself about available programs such as day habilitation services and transition fairs; and (3) developing partnership-based relationships with teachers and school districts rather than adversarial approaches.
The episode emphasizes that behavior often communicates student needs and that discovering hidden potential through consistent, appropriate environmental modifications—such as offering choices, physical activity, and modified expectations—can significantly improve outcomes. Additionally, starting transition planning conversations early, ideally before age 14, helps families better prepare for adulthood.
If you're interested in joining our Facebook community for parents and caregivers seeking residential options, guidance and peer support for profoundly autistic adults - click here!
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Mike Carr (00:05):
So welcome everybody to another episode or a couple episodes probably of Autism Labs. We have the Round Rock School District represented today, which is one of the larger school districts in the greater Austin, Texas area. For those of you in Austin, I'm sure you've heard of Round Rock. And we have a key teacher as part of the transition program, Patti Cole, who's going to be talking about her experiences in the classroom and helping kiddos get ready for transition and afterwards. And then we have Will Renfro, who heads up the entire transition activities for Round Rock. So I think it's going to be a great conversation. It'll probably, again, span a couple episodes. But with that, Patti, I'd like to have you introduce yourself and a little bit about your background. And then Will, I'd like you to do the same. So Patti, fire away.
Patti Cole (00:45):
All right. Patti Cole. Well, I used to be known as Patti Warford. Will always likes me to tell this story. I actually attended the very first Special Olympics in 1968. Wow. My dad was instrumental in going to New York and meeting with the Kennedys and bringing Special Olympics to Texas. Both of my parents were educators. My mother was a self-contained teacher here in Round Rock and my dad was an administrator at one of the local state schools. And then he went back to teaching. So I kind of have it in my blood.
Mike Carr (01:16):
For Sure
Patti Cole (01:17):
I love this population. I have a lot of respect for the population and their parents. And I came back in 2013 to start teaching again. I stayed at home and raised six children. And for nine years, I was in the middle school. And then Will had an opening and emailed me and said, "Put your application in. " And I said, "Okay, fine." And I moved to transition and I am just in love with transition because it's the end. And it's not the end, it's the beginning of the end, but the beginning of the beginning. It's a combination of a lot of things. And I really enjoy
Mike Carr (01:50):
It. Well, Patti, you've been there, you've done that with six kids. You've sort of lived the mom journey multiple times.
Patti Cole (01:55):
Yes.
Mike Carr (01:55):
So thank you so much for joining us today. And then Will, tell us a little bit about yourself and your journey.
Will Renfro (02:00):
Sure. And it's not as grand as Patti's journey, but Patti, I'm so glad that you shared that because I do have to be the one that shares that for her on her behalf because she doesn't share that so much. So I'm glad that she did. But that really is why she adds such value to the organization and why I was like, I want you to be in this group and teach with us. But I'm well Renfroe and my story's a little bit different. I grew up in Austin and went to the University of Texas and I had both sets of grandparents that were in education. However, I decided not to go that route. I was going to fight it every step of the way, even though I used to grade highlights with a red pen highlights magazines back in the day. So it was obviously in the blood somewhere like Patti's.
(02:35):
And I was in the corporate world for 10 years where I did some technical recruiting and then did some management training with a mortgage company back in the day and really was getting enjoyment out of finding people for positions that the companies held as a recruiter and talking to young adults either right out of college or who had career experience and finding that position within our organization that they would be a good fit for. So I had a really good knack for that piece. And when the mortgage crash happened back in 2007, I had already started pursuing getting a special education certification to teach. And through the Region 13 Service Center, was able to get that and then start teaching in Round Rock at McNeil High School where I taught, applied English, which is a smaller class size for some of our friends that have some disabilities and need some accommodations to learn the stuff that we're trying to teach them.
(03:25):
And from there, really gravitated towards loving the aspect of talking about transition with students to really help match them with what they want to do when they grow up and how can they get there. And from there, I became an art facilitator where I ran the meetings for the high school level and really enjoyed that and loved facilitating that conversation with families and with school personnel and with the student to really talk about the supports that are needed to help the student obtain those post-secondary goals that we talk about. And from there, then got my master's in transition actually from Sam Houston State University where Vicki Mitchell was instrumental in getting transition processes in place and assessments in place. And so I did that back in 2024, I believe. No, 2023, it must have been. And now I'm the transition coordinator for the district. So I oversee all of the transition programming that we have, make sure that we have a variety of assessments that we can use to help students determine their best life.
(04:21):
So that's my role. That's who I am.
Mike Carr (04:23):
Awesome. How many students are there in the transition program in Round Rock?
Will Renfro (04:27):
So right now we have a little over 70 students overall, and they are in different levels of our transition programming.
Mike Carr (04:34):
And if you just had to bifurcate it into two groups, those that are maybe a little bit more challenged and need more support versus those that require less support, how does that 70 plus students sort of divide into those two groups roughly?
Will Renfro (04:49):
Great question. And you'll see a range of support that students need as they move into adulthood. And so the students that have really more challenging needs, you'll see a lot less of that number. So that's probably closer to 15 of those 70 students that need that type of higher level of support that are in our 18 + program. The other students are not needing as much support and they work on living skills, work skills. Some of them do have paid positions with different organizations out in the community where they are actually working in a paid employment opportunity.
Mike Carr (05:19):
Okay. So here's the first question. And these, we can take them in whatever order you want to take them in and we can talk about other things too. So if this question spurs a different idea, please fire away. But the first question is, as a parent that's maybe entering transition or starting to think about transition, even if their child isn't yet 18 years old or 16 years old, but a little bit younger, what are the key challenges, issues that you want them to be aware of? Hey, here are three things. Regardless of whether your child is a higher support child with more challenges or lower support, maybe a little bit more independent, but here are a couple, three, four things that if you haven't already started thinking about or you haven't been planning for or aware of, we certainly would recommend you start that sooner rather than later.
Patti Cole (06:01):
This is my biggie. Get on the list that it's number one because the younger you can get on the list, the sooner you come to the top of the list. And that is the, I have to always look because I have the Medicaid waiver list, HCS, Bluebonnet Trails, Integral Care, class. And I probably wouldn't have said that when I was in middle school. I probably would've given you a list of skills, you should help them. But from a financial family standpoint, getting on those lists when they get to the 18, 22 age, the transition, because we're really focusing in on transition in this conversation, having that, the financial ability to have possibilities, that flexibility to have some possibilities in your young adult's life is freeing. I have a parent who got their child on the list when they were four years old. They got to the top of the list before they came to me at transition.
(06:46):
And the possibilities for that young man were astounding because there was money. And you hate to say it comes down to it, but it often does. Things cost money. Programs cost money. People want to be paid. And it's hard to say, but that would be my number one.
Mike Carr (07:00):
We were on the list for 14 years in Texas for our own son. We still hadn't moved to the top. So we were able to get a diversion slot, a medical diversion. There you go. So some of you that have a child with lots of challenges, right? Our son has seizures, he has PICA behavior, he's nonverbal. If your kiddo starts to fill, check multiple boxes and you're frustrated because you didn't get on that list when he was four years old, like Patti said this one family did, depending on what state you're in. And in Texas, I believe the waiting list, at least for HCS, is probably 15 years or longer, which means you got to be really proactive. In a few cases, you might be able to get a diversion slot, but Patti's absolutely right. Money does make a difference.
Patti Cole (07:39):
Yes
Mike Carr (07:39):
Having extra therapists come in after school, to have that consistency between what's going on in the classroom, and then at night at home or on the weekends is just hugely important. Some other things that we've talked about, another podcast or SSI, getting some social security, SSDI, ABLE accounts. So there are a lot of different paths for financial, but don't be embarrassed to try to get on that list and get some Medicaid dollars. It is going to make a big difference as Patti was saying. So Patti, what was number two on your list?
Patti Cole (08:07):
I want to add a little thing because I have a parent, I had a meeting with her yesterday and she only speaks Spanish. The second thing is, especially if your child's school age, get in there and know your parent liaison, know the people and collaborate with them. When they say, "Call me if you're having trouble," they really mean it. Call them. This lady comes in and they're going to meet next week and she's going to translate for, but that's not just the whole verbiage of every meeting. And I haven't had to go through it. I did not have a child that had any special needs. But the parents that share with me that just the emotional stress, the verbal, the vocabulary alone, reach out to your parent liaisons. You can utilize them from PPCD all the way through 22. Use them. That's what they're there for.
(08:50):
They actually get a paycheck. So make them earn it.
Mike Carr (08:53):
Great. Thank you.
Patti Cole (08:55):
Number two for me is educate yourself. It surprises me when I have parents who say to me, their young adult is 18 years old and they are involved. We have several different programs here where our students who have behavior stay on campus, but here where I am, our students are called community based and we have different levels. We have three different groups and I used to be in what we call our community access group. And those students don't have behaviors that would make it unsafe for them or others. And so I've worked with them, but I'm surprised when parents say, I say, "Okay, we're going to go look at some dayhabs or ISSP." And they're like, "Well, what is that? " Your young adult is 18 years old and you don't know what a day nab is. And it breaks my heart because then I have to simplify the whole situation.
(09:38):
Educate yourself. Parents, talk to your parent liaison, go to those destination life meetings, whatever it is in your community. Transition fairs, that's the phrase that you're going to look for is transition fair. Get out there and look at the possibilities. And most, I went to a transition fair in Austin and the day haves will come, the neurodivergent programs will come, the J13s will come. Get out there and learn the vocabulary. Get out there and figure out what the possibilities are for you and your child.
Mike Carr (10:06):
So Patti, you're bringing up something that I think, again, is hugely important. And I want to ask, we'll want you to answer this question. I want Patti to weigh in too. But first of all, it's so important that you're educated because not all school districts will volunteer what services you're entitled to. I was actually on the board of the school district. And as a board member, you take an oath of fiduciary responsibility. Your number one job, your really key job is to make sure the taxpayer dollars are managed correctly. Unfortunately, what that means is in some school districts, you don't volunteer to parent all the different services and therapies that they may be eligible for because those cost money and the school district picks up that money. And if you become known as a special ed friendly school district, which our school district did become known as, parents will physically move into your school district for the special ed program.
(10:53):
Well, what happens over time is, as more and more students are in your special ed population, parents that don't have a neurodivergent child get concerned that money is going from other programs into special ed. But if you are educated, and if you do know what services and programs and therapies you're entitled for, you could certainly advocate for your child. And this is the question I have for you, Will. What we have decided, and we have talked to lots of parents that tend to be pretty hard-nosed. And you can imagine every mom is passionate about the wellbeing of her kiddo, especially if he or she's nonverbal and can't advocate for themselves as a lot of special ed students have challenges with. And so they get to be a bit adversarial. And what we've discovered is more of a partnership relationship, right? That as a mom or as a dad, going into and fighting hard for your child, but not so aggressively that you turn off the school district, you turn off the teacher.
(11:44):
And so what worked best for us, and Will, I'm really interested in your thoughts on this, and then Patti yours too, is what kind of relationship do you feel if a parent comes in and is willing to take some of that burden and make some suggestions about, I think this program and work with the teacher and the district resources as a partner versus, "I demand this and you're not giving it to me and I'm going to sue you. " Do you have any perspective on that that you can share with everyone?
Will Renfro (12:10):
That is the million dollar question, for the lack of a better phrase to use to answer that question, but that's very well stated and very well said and very well understood. I think in a lot of school districts where you're right, you have parents that have a lot of concerns and it can become very adversarial quickly. I would hope that through things like this, that that can help put that at ease because we want to work with families. We want to develop that partnership. And if Patti and her experience and her background or any indicator to help a parent understand, we are all here for the best interest of your child with a disability and we are here to help listen. We want to point you in the right direction to receive the best services that you can obtain. And I want to clarify something that you mentioned in this question about being a board member and the finances that go into play.
(12:59):
A student or a child that has a disability can do an intake with their local health agency. So in Williamson County, that's Blue Bonnet Trails. In Travis County, that's integral care and we can partner with those organizations while your child is going through the education system to access additional services that may be needed. So the therapies and things that you mentioned, yes, the school districts can provide those things to a student as they are working on their education and working on their credits to graduate from high school. But like you mentioned, other supports can come into the picture to help support that child in the home environment, out in the community. And so it's really important for parents to understand that even if you don't come up on the Medicaid waiver waiting list to receive those services, you can still receive services outside of the school district.
(13:45):
So that's something that's important for all of our families to know. And we can certainly understand when it gets frustrating for parents and for our friends with disabilities to maybe want to get some type of accommodation that isn't being provided. Certainly talk to the teacher about why that accommodation would be helpful and make sure that the teacher is clear and understands what accommodation they're looking for, because that certainly can be provided. When it comes to talking about your child with disabilities and how we can best support that child, it is very important to make sure that everyone is coming to the table and that we have all the right people in place to talk about what those services can look like. So that includes if you have a case manager, because you've done your intake with the local health service, bring them to the meetings with the school district because they can provide some good information to help.
(14:30):
It takes a village and it takes an understanding and it takes patience and it takes a sense of listening and an open mind and care, which we are all in this profession because of those items that I just mentioned, really that understanding to help a good conversation flow for the best supports for their child.
Mike Carr (14:47):
Great. Will, thank you. Patti, anything else you want to talk about or what's the next item on your list?
Patti Cole (14:51):
I do have a couple of things I want to say about that particularly as a teacher going into with ... And I love my students. I do. And I tell my parents that I'm going to love your child to the best of my ability and I'm going to teach them and train them. However, the way to get a teacher ... And most teachers feel that way. They really do. We don't go into special education lightly. Most people do not. It is a taxing emotionally, physically visits to emergency rooms. I've been to an emergency room on and on and on. But what really frustrates a parent, I mean a teacher is when parents come in and demand things that they are not willing to do themselves at home. And that's where you will have that adversarial is when a teacher says, "I am willing to do this.
(15:33):
Are you? " But we can't say that in meetings. We really can't.
(15:37):
And I'm just going to say it right here because I can. But on the other hand, if you know what your young adult, what your child needs, if you've educated yourself and you go in there and you say, "This is what my child needs at home to be successful, I think that you should use it at school." And that will make a lot of teachers hackles rise, but guess what? A parent like that, I've had those parents over the years, they're going to make me a better teacher. I work with young teachers as well. If you have a parent that makes you just go, "Oh, guess what? They're going to make you a better teacher if you'll let them, if you will listen to them and work with them and figure out what's going on, because y'all both want the best for that young person." If teachers could just understand that you can be a better teacher, you can always grow.
(16:20):
Not if you're emotional, you have to think of it as let's work together, let's collaborate, but so do parents. Parents need to come in willing to change as well.
Mike Carr (16:28):
Let's talk about that because personally that has been one of my biggest challenges and the difference is night and day because there's a reality of being a parent that you're tired after work. The last thing you want to do is have to spend a couple hours with your kiddo before dinner, after dinner, doing the same structure, programming, et cetera, that goes on in the classroom. And so what I finally arrived at with a lot of help with my wife and our son's teachers is there's certain basic things that really make a difference, like being aware of what's going on in school and being aware of, well, how do you address behaviors and take the bribes off the table because it just disrupts and so counter to what goes on in the classroom that it's kids like to learn. I don't care what level they're at.
(17:18):
Our son's got an IQ of 40, he still enjoys learning. And so it's this idea that you can't always give them what they want and sometimes not reacting to bad behavior is hugely important because our son at least, and I know a lot of other parents that have more severely autistic or challenged kids like our son, he doesn't care whether he is doing something good or something bad. What he's after is the reaction. And if he can get a reaction from me, the dad, and he can see that grimace on my face or that smile on my face because he just threw his puzzles all over the floor. He threw his iPad across the room. He's just as happy as if he did something really good, like say a few words that he hadn't said before. And so learning just that discipline of being consistent with what's going on in the classroom in terms of how you react, do you have any guidance there for parents?
(18:03):
Because I am a parent and I've lived that battle and I've not been very good at doing what you're suggesting, but are there some simple things at the very least that you would recommend?
Patti Cole (18:12):
One of the things that Will and I were talking about yesterday and we got down to the term self-advocacy and it goes down to as simple as a choice ward. I've had my most drop in behaviors when I take out a file folder, photocopy a bunch of pictures, stick them there and say, "I need you to count to five for me. What do you want to do? " That sounds like a reward bribing, but it's not really. It's kind of like, I want to hear what you want. You want to hear what I want. I need to know you want relationship with dad? Here's what I'm considering relationship. Dad's willing to work a puzzle. What do you want to do with dad? Having that ability to have a little bit more choices, visuals, eye gaze board, and I know. It's hard. It is hard. Right now I have a young man who's here in our program and I had him for three years.
(19:02):
When he left middle school, I had every sick day and every personal day left because I did not take a day off because he would tear my classroom to bits. Wow.
(19:12):
I mean, he would kick holes in my walls. And unfortunately, one of the things I discovered was every time I shared with dad, dad would discipline him at home. And so I started keeping things to myself and only sharing the good things. But this young man and I discovered some things, but he had a choice for it and I'd go, "All right dude, today is math day, okay? You're going to do some math, all right? Okay. And after you finish your math, what would you like to do next?" We didn't say, "What do you want to earn? What do you want to get? " And that really decreased a lot of behaviors. I also put him in three PE classes and people were like, "No, you can't put him in three PE classes." And I said, "Oh yes, I can. " Because his body cannot sit still.
(19:56):
In order for him to sit still during math, he had to have PE before math and PE after math. Thinking outside of the box, that's the only advocacy and thinking outside of the box. Do it different. Do it different next time. I do it different every single time, Mike. So it's really hard for me to say, "Do this. " What I did do is I got to know my student, I got to know my student's parents and I figured out what made them tick and I figured out what they wanted and then I compared it to what I wanted and we worked together. So you
Mike Carr (20:26):
Mentioned a lot of really important things there, and I want to hone in on just a couple of them. One is physical activity. A lot of Michael's friends that are more complex special needs, so they have multiple IDDs. That physical activity is so important because they can't sit still. And most parents recognize that. And so getting them out, whether it's just a walk down the hallway or going to the gym and shooting a few baskets, but those breaks where they can get some of that energy and that stress and that anxiety out of their system
(20:55):
Has been a game changer. The other thing that you're alluding to, and this is something I wish I'd had this conversation back when our son was just entering transition, and we probably did and I probably didn't pay any attention to it, is you would be surprised at the potential your son or daughter has that you've maybe never seen before, but in the right environment where there's consistency over time. Now this isn't going to happen instantly, but if you let it sort of go a general path for maybe a few weeks or a few months, you'll see something that you had no idea was there. And I'll give you an example with our son.You guys probably have some examples too. We go to crux climbing gyms and there's actually one up in Flugerville near Round Rock and I thought climbing for him was ridiculous. I thought, why would he want to do that?
(21:40):
He doesn't understand holding on.
Patti Cole (21:42):
Yes he can.
Mike Carr (21:43):
Yeah. And then the first day we had three guys. One guy was holding his butt up in the air. Another guy was trying to put his foot on the first thing and another one was holding the belay rope and all he did was make one step. It was six inches off the ground. He was laughing.He thought this was so silly. This went on for weeks and then months. I thought, this is crazy. Well, today he will climb a 60 foot wall by himself. And the reason that's so amazing is it showed us to several different things, right? He can excel even when he's challenged and he's having fun. He's smiling when he's climbing the wall and it gives him a sense of fulfillment. And he's learning how to hold on and he's building some strength and self-confidence in this ability to take on harder challenges with less encouragement.
(22:26):
So parents, I can almost promise you there's potential inside your kiddo that maybe you've observed, but only infrequently or you've never seen. And Patti or will share an example or two, if you will, with something that you've seen in maybe a very different environment that was a real surprise to the mom or the dad when they saw it.
Patti Cole (22:42):
I got one.
Mike Carr (22:43):
Good.
Patti Cole (22:43):
I have tons of stories. That particular young man actually could run several miles at a time and people would just watch him out on the track. I'd take him to the track or one of the EAs would take him to the track and he would just run. There's just inside. But the story I'm thinking of, I had a young lady and her dad wanted her to have, she was 17, wanted her to have iPad time and computer time. Well, she could pick up a computer and throw it across the room and I can't even tell you what she could do with an iPad. So everything had to be strapped down.
(23:12):
And you know what she wanted to do? She wanted to stand at the window and watch the buses leave. That was what she really wanted to do. She didn't want to sit at a table. She wanted to walk up by herself, walk up to my board and just touch the board and maybe write something with a marker. That's what she wanted to do. But the information that the data sheets that were supposed to have iPad time. And so when we started allowing her that free movement throughout our classroom, rather than having her down to a computer or an iPad, my behavior started dropping, dropping, dropping. She was just a really interesting young lady. I got in a lot of trouble with her because I'd go in and they'd say, "Do you have any questions?" And I would say things like, and I'd say, "No, I'm not going to ask y'all any questions because y'all obviously don't have any answers." I got in so much trouble for that one.
(23:58):
But that's the story of my life. I also discovered this young lady who was 17. At first, she was 17 and her dad wanted her to obey and do what she was supposed to do. And I said, "You find me a 17-year-old female who obeys their dad. I'll give you $100." I said, "She's first a 17-year-old female." And her dad looked at me, my boss was looking at me like, "What are you saying?" I was like, "I'm just being honest with you. " So when we got those kind of pieces out of the way, that young lady wanted some freedom and she wanted some freedom to safely move around. And she started apologizing when she would knock something off. She did have cerebral palsy and she had autism and she was just a plethora of just challenges. As you can tell, I loved her.
Mike Carr (24:42):
That's great
Patti Cole (24:42):
We cried when she left. Anyway-
Will Renfro (24:46):
Can I point out that I was not the boss that you just mentioned where- Yes, I know.
Mike Carr (24:51):
He was not my boss then. Will, do you have a story or an experience of someone that you've worked with or something that you've seen that you think parents might benefit from?
Will Renfro (24:59):
I don't want to pinpoint an actual example, but I do want to make sure that everyone here understands that self-advocacy can show itself in a lot of different ways. And one way that that can happen is through behavior. And when, just like what Patti mentioned, you have a student that wanted to do something on her own and didn't want to do what was expected from someone else for her. And so there were some behaviors that were happening. So the behavior is communicating to us that there is something else that the student or the child wants to do. And we really need to pay attention to that and kind of let our expectation of what we think the student or the child wants to do or needs to do and really let that behavior be that communication because you'll see that as we start to show that we understand what they are trying to communicate, a lot of those behaviors will start to go by the wayside.
(25:46):
And I also want to pinpoint that with our programming, the transition programming that we are talking about, really in the state of Texas, you start talking about transition at the age of 14. The federal law is 16. So Texas has already taken it to two years before that, but it's even better to talk about transition earlier on. So meet with your teacher, meet with the early childhood representative or teacher of your school district when they're before kindergarten and first grade or pre-K level and start talking about what does it look like for adulthood. And as a parent coming into this world and a young parent coming into this world, you think, oh, 18 is way down the line and really it's right around the corner. And especially when you're trying to find accommodations that are helpful for your child to be successful as an adult, find agencies and supports that will be helpful in your young child becoming an adult and being successful.
(26:36):
It's really important to have those conversations early, early on because to me, transition really is the reason that we are here with special education services because it touches every aspect of a child's education leading into adulthood.
Mike Carr (26:48):
That's great. And I think this is a good place to sort of, in this particular episode, and we're going to have another episode next week with Patti and Will continuing to talk about transition. But the thing I think that anyone listening to this is going to probably take away from, which I think is hugely important. And both Will and Patti have mentioned this is they're not doing this to get rich. A transition teacher or a transition coordinator is not making the kind of money that an AI tech program, or at least in Austin, Texas is making. They're here because they have a calling and they have a passion. And so understanding that mom and dad, when you come in angry because something isn't working right and you want to take it out on that poor teacher or the transition coordinator or the EA, remember they're really doing it for the benefit of your child and trying to help them.
(27:37):
And what can I do to make your life a little bit easier? What supports can I provide is probably a better way to go than I demand this because I know I should get this and I don't think you're doing a very good job. Well, maybe not have that conversation. So we're going to break now for this week and we will continue on next week with the Round Rock School District, Will Renfro and Patti Cole. Thank you guys so much. Thank you.