The Expansionist Podcast
Shelly Shepherd and Heather Drake invite you to listen in on a continuing conversation about expanding spirituality, the Divine Feminine, and the transforming impact of living attuned to Wisdom, Spirit and Love.
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The Expansionist Podcast
How Changing Our Minds Creates a More Beautiful World
Changing your mind might be the most revolutionary spiritual practice available to you right now. Heather and Shelly dive deep into the transformative power of mental flexibility and how it connects to the core teachings of Jesus.
What happens when we allow ourselves to consider that our perspective might be incomplete? The hosts explore how Jesus repeatedly invited his followers to "repent" – literally to change their minds – and how this practice creates pathways for authentic spiritual growth. "Is it possible that I am not seeing the whole picture?" becomes a doorway to profound transformation.
The conversation examines why changing our minds feels so threatening (hint: it's mostly ego) and how the Mary Magdalene way models courage in trusting our deeper knowing even when it goes against established norms. They discuss practical approaches for communities seeking change, including making authentic friendships across differences and "making what's beautiful the story" rather than rigidly adhering to established patterns.
This episode challenges listeners to expand their understanding beyond familiar frameworks by engaging with diverse traditions and even learning from the natural world. "Start by changing your own mind," the hosts suggest, reminding us that this internal shift might be our most powerful tool for creating change in a divided world. The practice of recognizing everyone's belovedness – including those with whom we deeply disagree – creates a foundation for genuine transformation.
Ready to explore how changing your mind might open new possibilities in your spiritual journey? Join Heather and Shelly for this thought-provoking conversation that will leave you reconsidering what you thought you knew.
Welcome to the Expansionist Podcast with Shelley Shepard and Heather Drake. In each episode, we dive deep into conversations that challenge conventional thinking, amplify diverse voices and foster a community grounded in wisdom, spirit and love.
Speaker 2:Good afternoon, Heather Drake. It's great to be with you here on the Expansionist Podcast.
Speaker 1:Good afternoon Shelley Shepard. Welcome to almost autumn and the beauty that September brings us and the idea of change change in the leaves and change in the weather and in the season and potentially changing our minds about all kinds of things.
Speaker 2:This sounds like an intro to a topic we're about to break open like an alabaster jar.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, and hopefully in this conversation, in this space, we invite people to be curious. Is it possible that the Spirit is also inviting all of us to change the way that we think and the power in the changing of thought and what that offers to us, especially because so many of us feel helpless in the world around us right now to make a change, to stand up for the oppressed and to say I see that there's a different way, and I'm excited to think about the fact that this could be the. We could be on a precipice of something amazing if people are willing to change their minds.
Speaker 2:And we individually, we know how difficult it is to ask somebody to change their mind, which is part of why we are where we are.
Speaker 1:In our country is somebody thinks one way about a particular topic or subject matter and someone else thinks the exact opposite of it, the the exact opposite of it, and so change gets locked in some kind of you know, liminal space between it almost becomes yeah, it almost becomes futile, like this is my I'm gonna stake this part and we're gonna believe this and somebody else and and what I'm excited about and has been a part of why we even began the expansionist podcast, is to celebrate, to normalize, to invite, to practice the changing of our minds about things and to be able to say this is how growth happens.
Speaker 1:This is the invitation of the path of ascension, this is the invitation actually of spirit.
Speaker 2:That spirit, who is our teacher, will come and change our minds about things yes, and the expansionist um, what I like to call expansionist theology is um, we don't have to throw everything out that we have either been given as children, young adults, you know, young women but we can take what we've been given and, like a diamond, turn it towards the light and see how we can expand beyond that particular thought or that one way of thinking or that one way of seeing something that we were told. This is the way, this is the way that you do a lot of things, and so I don't know, as a kid growing up, if your parents ever said this is how you need to learn this. You got to do it this way. This is the right way, whether it was making the bed or doing the dishes or, you know, mowing the grass, you know, whatever like there was only one way to do everything.
Speaker 1:There's only one way to do anything, and it was, of course, the adults who were in charge. They already had the way and they would tell you how to do it, and then you either lived up to it or you't. And you know, therein lied your demise, because you didn't do it that particular way. And I think that there is an invitation and a beauty. I do understand that there's often fear wrapped around it or a vulnerability. What happens to us when we change our mind? What happens to our friend group when we change our mind? What happens to community when we change our mind? What happens to community when we change our mind? What happens to how we view the world when we allow the spirit, who is the thought adjuster, to come and to change our minds? Wow, you've just like dumped your wagon right here for us to like sort through all those pieces.
Speaker 1:We're just picking all of that, yes, welcome to Wagon Dumping 101.
Speaker 2:The first thing that comes to my mind is our model, right, what we call the Mary Magdalene way, and how she entered you know the gospel story, particularly as a change agent, for sure. And we have been looking at that model for quite a few years in our lives and we were given an example of someone that was told well, you can't really do it that way. Yeah, someone that said was told, well, you can't really do it that way, and she steps into her own ancient knowing and ancient remembering and says but I need to do this. This is for him.
Speaker 1:And the invitation in the text in the Gospel of Mary is the invitation for us to return to love, and I think very often, just in the idea of returning, there is change. You were headed in one direction and now you have to change directions Again. That's reminiscent of the teachings of Jesus, who told us you know, live a life worthy of repentance, change your mind about things. Here's a higher thought. This is what it looks like to follow me, to live a life of repentance, changing.
Speaker 1:And I think that for many of us coming into a religion or into a sect of Christianity, we were going to really stake our claim on, once we learned this, once we had it all and we were certain that we had it right, we would never have to venture down the road to re-examine anything. And I think that uncertainty was pushed in like the same category as like doubt or unbelief, or unknowing. And now, in fact, the more that we join with spirit, the more the cloud of unknowing becomes a place for us to find. That becomes the embodiment that we're living through, that we don't have to be certain about things, we don't have to know everything, but we can trust the spirit within us to lead, and we can trust the spirit within us. That is good. Can we go back to?
Speaker 2:the word repentance and maybe just I'll allow it For a second, because you're using the word synonymous right, repentance and change, or at least in this conversation, is that the purpose?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and the way that Jesus actually, you know, offered it in the text that we're given. So I wasn't actually there when Jesus was offering it, and so the way that I read the text, when Jesus says repent, he's actually inviting us to change our mind. Change your mind about how you see this. Again, jesus offers so many times when you have heard it said. But I say to you change your mind and choose which way of thinking you're going to have. Over and over again, jesus confronts religious systems that lead to the oppression of people and asks us to choose. And then again in the text and other places where I put before you life and death, choose life. You know there's choose the change, and I think that we are eager to see other people change. But there's so much power in releasing the way that we are seeing things and honoring the change and opening our heart up to spirit so that change can begin with us.
Speaker 2:It's so hard to change. Let's talk about that for a second. It's like monumental in some ways to think, oh, I have to change. I have to change the way that I'm thinking about my neighbor. I have to change the way that I'm thinking about the person you know driving in front of me. I have to change. Yeah, like what is it in that track of our minds that's? Is it connected to the ego? Is it? Is it? Is it just?
Speaker 1:all ego. I don't think it's just connected, I think it's all ego. I think this is the ploy of ego to tell us that it's going to be hard. We have the spirit of God in us, the great creator, the one who again go back to the cosmos. You know, like we lack no imagination in creativity, this is not going to be hard in that it is insurmountable, but it is absolutely a vulnerability to go.
Speaker 1:I will not be the center of this world. My preferences will not be extreme here. You know wait, wait, wait. I'm not the one that the world is going to spin around anymore. I mean, this is the message of Galileo. It's not us, it's the sun. You know it's. It's light, and you know the church is going to have us. You know it's light and the church is going to have us imprisoned and executed for that kind of thought.
Speaker 1:But that is the thought that allows creation. I think that's a thought that changes the world. The kingdom is so close to us, the kingdom that we're all looking for, and it requires us to be willing, or at least to consider. I think in my own life that was such a launching place for me to consider that the way that I saw things may not be the whole story, may not be the whole picture. I didn't even have to say that I was going to change. You know X, y and Z, but is it possible that I am not seeing the whole picture? I didn't even have to say that I was going to change. You know X, y and Z, but is it possible that I am not seeing the whole picture? And I ask our listeners is it possible that there is another way of seeing everything? And I think that's the invitation in ascension If we come up higher, is it possible that we'll see differently?
Speaker 2:This sounds like a practice. A million, trillion times. Is this becoming a practice? And I think about, I wonder, you know how churches let's just talk about churches, since we're both involved in them how did churches change? Like what's the conduit other than spirit, other than what you just described that spirit is? Is this invitation to us to come up higher?
Speaker 2:to a higher way of thinking. Okay, we're going to teach these practices, we're going to figure out, you know, are we as a local congregation not seeing our community or our neighborhood in the way that it actually exists? Right, like, what are we missing and and and? So you probably know better than I, uh, maybe, how to answer that as a pastor. But, um, if we don't talk about change, you know, in the church and maybe we talk about it every week, maybe that's what the sermon is calling us to right. Preacher after preacher is saying hey, pay attention, you know somebody's not's not listening. I'm going to preach it again. Here it comes again. But talk to us about that. How does the church invite spirit into applying that salve of change that is needed in our lives and maybe even to save our world? I don't know.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm hopeful that it can save the world. And I do see two tracks on how change is initiated, I think, in communities. Firstly, through friendships, through real community, through an invitation to come to the table wherever we are and making sure that that is open to everyone. That changes everything when we have this idea that no one is excluded from the table of the Lord, that everyone is welcomed, everyone is welcomed. And in finding our friendships, I really have found so much hope and language around what Lori Beth offered us Make what's beautiful the story.
Speaker 1:Change comes when we allow ourselves to hear the story differently, to hear another voice in the choir, to hear another person say I understand that this is how everyone experienced it, but this is not how I experienced it. And being able to intentionally listen for beauty and then make that the story, not make the story. Have we held fast to the rule that we've always held fast to? There's no beauty in that. Where is the beauty in the storytelling of saying how is everyone's hearts being turned toward each other? How is the illusion of separation no longer the standard? But now, how are we remembering what Jesus told us he was praying for, for all of us, that we would be one? Where's our connection to nature, to each other and to the entire cosmos, and where is that oneness leading us?
Speaker 1:I think that changing our ears, or allowing our ears to hear a better story, being people who tell a better story and having legitimate community with diverse peoples, and not just people with nature. What are we doing? To commune with nature? To listen to those things and to listen to the trees tell us a better story. To listen to the mushrooms tell us a better story. To listen to. You know, water and the elements testify to us of things that we have deemed not a faithful witness, and I think that's the story of the resurrection for us, when Jesus is saying okay, listen to Mary, because she's going to tell you brothers about something. So the invitation is to find a better witness. We want to pause and take a moment and let you know how glad we are that you've joined us. If you're enjoying this podcast, consider sharing it with a friend, and if you found the conversation intriguing and want to know more about what we're learning or how you can join our online community, visit our website at expansionistheologycom.
Speaker 2:That was a beautiful wagon dump right here. At a regular basis dumping wagons here.
Speaker 2:So many pieces that I could just pick up and run with here. Beautiful, beautiful examples as we pay attention to what the Spirit is inviting us into. And one thing that I heard was this diversity of thought. If we're only reading Scripture, it's going to be hard for us to change. I'm just going to go ahead and say that and put that out there.
Speaker 2:If I'm not listening to something that my Sufi brother or sister has written, if I haven't read that in a while, if I haven't read something from Islam or Hindu or you know just a different way of even seeing scripture, I might have a hard time wrapping my head around what God is up to in the world. Because you and I know that you can't have this kind of diversity in a world without having this diverse God behind it. And if God is this diverse and we believe that God is in all and has created all and is the creator of all things, all people, then somehow I might be missing what you called earlier part of that full picture of what God is trying to do in the world. If I see somebody that thinks differently than I do as the enemy or as someone that's not right and they need to change because their faith or their practice or their food or their thought is so foreign to the way that I think that they can't be right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is exactly what Jesus was doing when he launched, you know, the church in the book of Acts, these people that had nothing in common and, in fact, not only nothing in common but actually felt the other was wrong, this idea of a unity of people behind the person of Jesus, who showed us that the way is love, that love is the way, and that dogma and creeds and all of those things often separate us. So how do we return to love? How do we allow the Spirit to draw us into communion, into anointing, into what it means to be people who heal the world Because we have followed the way of Jesus and the way of Jesus?
Speaker 1:thriving in our humanity Followed the way of Jesus and the way of Jesus, thriving in our humanity, accepting our divinity, made in the very image of God, but also people who are fully human, and accepting the humanity of others around us, and saying that we are not all going to think the same way, we are not all going to eat the same way, we are not all going to eat the same way, we're not all going to, and that love is the only standard that we would have is pretty huge boundaries from someone who you know again raised in, you know high and tight here, you know, like we are not going to. In fact, I felt like I spent years learning how to judge people you know how to accurately judge them as opposed to the way of Jesus. It's like, no, just don't even do that, that's not your business. Love them, love me, carry on, you know.
Speaker 1:And this idea of changing our minds about things it's a practice in ascension, it's a practice in going deeper For people who are recognizing my spirituality might no longer be working. What I have is no longer working. The invitation is further up, farther in, you know, and not abandoning everything, maybe putting down the things that no longer serve you or the things that keep you bound, but following after love with full abandon. That starts with questions, and that starts with honoring our own questions and allowing the Spirit to show us how to change our minds.
Speaker 2:You and I have had the privilege of following Jesus. You know pretty much our entire lives and the expansive arms and heart and mind that Jesus portrayed, that was captured in the biblical context that we have been given, is certainly like in our hearts, or in my heart, the core of what I believe For someone that was raised differently than that. At the core of them there's something different perhaps, or maybe there's nothing, maybe they weren't raised a particular way to think, and so I want to ask about that. When somebody isn't following Jesus, or they haven't or they don't see the need to change to follow Jesus. But they're good people, they're living in community, they're feeding the poor, they're building homes for the homeless, they're volunteering in community, they're feeding the poor, they're building homes for the homeless, they're volunteering in a city.
Speaker 1:Well, when you describe them like that, I say they actually are following Jesus. Yeah, they may not call him by that name, but that is the way of love, that is the invitation for all of us. I believe that, again, by your love is what Jesus said people who are true followers would be known for, and what you're describing is loving the world, loving each other, loving ourselves. Then we are following the path and I think that the invitation is that we would be fully immersed in the way of love that gives us the courage to change our minds about things. I've had people say to me you can't question this, because if you do and it could be X, y or Z, no telling where you'll end up. You know and I'm like I don't agree with that statement Go ahead and question something. We have a good shepherd, the goodness of God is all around us and if we get you know too far one way, love will pull us back, love will invite us back into community, and I think that there is such hope in this understanding that changing our minds is sometimes the most beautiful thing we can do for the people that we live with, for the world that we say that we love, for the people that we say that we care about. Being willing to change our minds about things not only keeps that flexibility, keeps us from injury, but keeps us from harming others too.
Speaker 1:And I am a person of a lot of convictions In fact you and I were just laughing earlier because I have a lot of opinions about music and so I'm a person with preference. But what we are not called to, give up our preference or our uniqueness or our opinion about something, but surrender it first to love and say, what if loving my neighbor means loving my neighbor's music Only if it doesn't fall within these three categories? That I don't believe is music you know, like. So there's this idea of going okay, so I haven't experienced that particular goodness, but listening to someone else tell me the story of how beautiful it is to them, that changes me.
Speaker 1:And that's why living in community and paying attention to holy listening, not only listening for the spirit, but listening for the voices of brothers and sisters who tell us their stories and who explain to us how they experience things and what they are living in. And so then the invitation is can we join their story, can we make it an even better story, can we magnify the beauty and can we change our dogma from being unchangeable to being people who recognize that we're made from the earth and the earth has seasons, and we're made from the elements, and the elements change in their form, and that change is a part evolution is a part of what spirituality really is. In fact, the apostle paul said at one point I thought as child, and then I chose to put away childish things and think higher, think differently, and this invitation is, I think, for a lot of the people that I know that are older in age. One of the things that they pride themselves on is that they believe the same way they did 50 years ago.
Speaker 2:Yes, the same yesterday, today and forever right, that whole passage that tied us all to resisting change. If God doesn't change, then we better not change it either.
Speaker 1:But what if God doesn't have to change? Because God is in all things, everywhere all at once, and so that's very different than our liminal understanding here. And there have been things that we have heard from ancient people about who God is and how God lives among us, and perhaps our perspective has been wrong and that invitation into change that invitation into living freely and lightly, living with hands open.
Speaker 1:Saying this is how I know the story. How do you know the story? How do you see God? How do you see love? How do you experience me in the way that I move among the people of the world? And coming back to love, and this invitation to change, this invitation to evolve, this invitation to mature, the invitation to ascend, these are things, I believe, that are part of the characteristics of creativity and God who is creative, god who is creator, god who lives and moves in us. Right, whether we agree or disagree with their position.
Speaker 2:And that is definitely one of the hardest things right now. I think In our society there's this immediate wall that begins to, you know, to rise up when somebody doesn't like where the person left the shopping cart right, they didn't take it all the way back, like what kind of you know what kind of person doesn't take the shopping cart back. And so we go from, we go from one place to the next place, to the next place in our thoughts and in our minds, and we're chasing, wanting to change something in our environment, when internally is where the shift, at least in my humble thought right now, is. This is internal and seeing Christ in the other person first. May, whether I know anything about that person's faith or not, right Might be like. Okay, this is a first step. This is a first step of how I could change, Just thinking of tangible ways to practice this ourselves. Right, We've been about change for a long time.
Speaker 1:I have a practice that I would like to invite everyone into is remembering that every person is beloved If we believe that God is the eternal parent, father and mother of us all. If we can agree on that and I guess not even agree on that, but consider it. Consider that we're all made in the image of God and that we are all deeply loved by God.
Speaker 1:That's a good place to be able to say okay, I am loved by God and my neighbor is loved by God, and my enemy is loved by God. And the plan has always been that God is bringing us all to a table, Even when he's preparing it for me in the presence of enemies.
Speaker 1:the table is going to be there. The enemies will be brought to the table. We will all sit down at the table of God, and a practice for all of us can be how do I recognize, not the differences, but the oneness All loved, all loved, exactly as we are All children of God.
Speaker 2:All of us, yeah, and this is not a popular message for a lot of people in our world at all, but I'm glad we're having it.
Speaker 2:I believe it is a very important topic on how we expand and how we evolve or how we repent and how we stretch beyond the ways that we've always been told that things need to happen or show up in the world. So I appreciate this conversation today, even though some people may throw us some messages and say, okay, but what about this situation or what about that person? Do I really have to expand and change? And so maybe we'll come back and circle back to this topic again, but it's a great reminder.
Speaker 1:It's a beautiful threshold, to just surrender, to change. I may have to change the way that I think about something. I invite spirit to tell me what I, how I can see this differently, how I can see this person differently, how I see myself differently, how I can see the world differently. And the invitation into embodying the spirit, recognizing the belovedness and the oneness of all things. This is how we make the next step forward, instead of saying there's problems everywhere, I have no idea what I can do to help.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:Start by changing your own mind, and really what that means is changing, allowing ourselves to have the spirit, teach us another way of living, another way of experiencing the world and being present to the people around us, and the beauty of that is that we have the capacity to change. We have the power. We don't have to wait for anyone to do anything else. We can change our minds.
Speaker 2:Let's go tell a better story.
Speaker 1:It was our joy to have you listen to our conversation today. If you would like further information or for more content, visit us at expansionisttheologycom.