Editor's Note: This interview was recorded on September 14, 2023—shortly after our guest publicly came out as a trans woman. Since this conversation, she has taken on a new name, one that suits her beautifully: Margaux. Margaux has given us permission to share this conversation in its original form, which is why you will occasionally hear Katie refer to her as Sean.
Join us as we embark on an intimate exploration of identity and authenticity with our inspiring guest Margaux, author of the blog "The Trans Girl's Guide to the Galaxy (www.thetransgirlsguide.com).
From coming out as gay to coming to the profound realization of her trans identity, Margaux's journey sheds light on the multifaceted experiences of the LGBTQ+ community. Margaux reflects on traditional girlhood milestones—from bra shopping to bachelorette parties—as well as the experience of coming out to her husband.
Concluding our episode with a poignant discussion on pride, Margaux and Katie challenge us to redefine what it means to celebrate our identities. In a world where pride can often feel co-opted by commercial interests, Margaux invites us to find the pride that comes from within, championing a sense of wholeness that is not bound by societal pressures or public displays.
Editor's Note: This interview was recorded on September 14, 2023—shortly after our guest publicly came out as a trans woman. Since this conversation, she has taken on a new name, one that suits her beautifully: Margaux. Margaux has given us permission to share this conversation in its original form, which is why you will occasionally hear Katie refer to her as Sean.
Join us as we embark on an intimate exploration of identity and authenticity with our inspiring guest Margaux, author of the blog "The Trans Girl's Guide to the Galaxy (www.thetransgirlsguide.com).
From coming out as gay to coming to the profound realization of her trans identity, Margaux's journey sheds light on the multifaceted experiences of the LGBTQ+ community. Margaux reflects on traditional girlhood milestones—from bra shopping to bachelorette parties—as well as the experience of coming out to her husband.
Concluding our episode with a poignant discussion on pride, Margaux and Katie challenge us to redefine what it means to celebrate our identities. In a world where pride can often feel co-opted by commercial interests, Margaux invites us to find the pride that comes from within, championing a sense of wholeness that is not bound by societal pressures or public displays.
Our relationship was built off of an idea that, like we were gay men. So I really, really struggled for a while with, like how can I make this work? Because there's a gender component here that I can't keep ignoring because it's not good for my mental health. They're just overall well-being and it's also not fair to myself or other people to not like be able to fully be myself.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Pride Stories, the podcast, where we celebrate the entire spectrum of experiences that make up the LGBTQ plus community. I'm your host, katie Beattie, and I have a brief note to share about the episode you are about to hear. This conversation was recorded on September 14th 2023, shortly after my guest publicly came out as a trans woman. As we know, identity is a fluid and ever-evolving thing. Since our conversation, my guest has taken on a new name, one that suits her beautifully Margo Margo has given us permission to share this conversation in its original form, which is why you will occasionally hear me refer to her using her given name, sean. So, without further ado, here is my conversation with the lovely Margo Schroepfie. Hi, sean, welcome to Pride Stories, the podcast. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you so much for deciding to join. Before we get into it, can you just like tell our listeners a little bit about who you are.
Speaker 1:you know where you're coming from, what you do, what makes Sean Sean yeah so I won't bore you with all of the boring details of, like I have a normal job, that I work and I live a somewhat normal life. All of that has been shaded in and like a more fun color spectrum because I recently came out as trans. So, yeah, I live in Madison, wisconsin, with my husband and my two dogs. We're currently in the process of adopting a baby, so that adds just another layer to things as well. Yeah, like, is that sufficient? Does that be sufficient?
Speaker 2:That is more than sufficient. Awesome. Well, thank you for giving us that little like overview introduction to who you are. And because you already mentioned, you know you recently came out as trans and that is kind of like coloring in your life in a lot of really interesting ways. Can you just jump in and tell us what is your pride story?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so my pride story is like multi-fold, because I, when I commit to something, I like to commit like fully, but at the same time I've like noticed a trend with myself, specifically with, like my pride story or coming out in that like I come out in different sort of like iterations or variations. So I initially came out as bisexual in high school and then about a year later I came out as gay. One of my dearest, dearest friends, actually, I recently reminded her of this conversation. When I came out to her as gay in high school, her immediate response was like I love you. Of course that's amazing, but are you going to come to me a year from now and tell me that you're trans? Which is like yeah, I mean, she saw right through me there.
Speaker 2:But that would have been what, like 2013, like 2014. Literally, like, really, before the idea of being trans was even like super in the public eyes.
Speaker 1:She knew she felt guilty about that when I reminded her of it like last week, but I assured her that it was not, it was lovely and it just it felt like she saw through me and I wasn't ready to fully commit to that yet. But fast forward a decade later and I then I came out as non binary, like about a year ago, and that felt like okay, it felt right enough for the time being. At that point in my life I was still like I was already married to Colin, my husband, and we were like in the process of adopting a baby and all of those things that like our relationship was built off of an idea that we were gay men, and so I really really struggled for a while with like how can I make this work? Because there's a gender component here that I can't keep ignoring, because it's not good for my mental health. They're just overall well being, and it's also not fair to myself or other people to not like be able to fully be myself. And so for me, non binary felt like a great way to sort of can this just work for me? Obviously, being non binary is a very real thing and it's not a stepping stone, but for me. It was sort of like okay, I think I could exist in this liminal space and maybe that will work for me.
Speaker 1:It didn't spoiler alert fast forward another year or so and it was like early 2023, I started having some really, really rough, just like gender dysphoria that I wasn't really expecting, with like specific parts about me that I have always liked about myself. I had like a really killer mustache that I thought was really really dope and cool. I loved the whole. Can you curse on this podcast?
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:I had a whole like gender fuck thing going on where I was like very presenting very femme and dressing very femme but then like had this structured masculine face with the giant mustache and yeah. So like that felt like a cool old, you know gender fucky vibe. But I realized slowly like all of the masculine parts, or the things that people deemed as being masculine, really started to like wear on me really, really deeply and so a few months ago I was like, okay, this isn't going to work. So I'm a planner and, like I said, when I decide to commit, whether it's a decade ago or now, I do fully commit. And so I was like I have to just be fully honest. I can't keep doing this. I'm going to be adopting a child, like I want to instill in them that like they can be whoever they are, fully, wholly, without worrying about what anyone thinks, and I felt like I needed to live that. So I came up with a little plan. Luckily, mutual friend of ours and friend from college, natalie Rivera yes, she's amazing, she lives down the road from me and about a month and a half ago I had a complete breakdown and she, conveniently, is a therapist and I wasn't looking for her to therapist me, but I was looking for her to help me identify some resources in the community that I could like jumpstart some of this. So I drove over to her house on a whim, sat on her couch and said she was the first person that I told you know, I'm a trans woman. I can't keep doing this like in between thing that I've been doing. She wasn't shocked and that sort of been. The general response from people is like, yeah, that makes sense. But she, yeah, helped me get some like good resources, find therapists in the community that specifically cater to trans patients, and also helped me come up with a plan for like, how do I want to talk to people like my husband about this or work, or friends and family? So I really started there and so I guess my pride story feels like it's still sort of unfolding.
Speaker 1:I, you know, very recently came out to friends, family and my corner of the internet within the last couple of weeks. I came out to my grandparents last weekend, which felt really, really special. Yeah, that was sweet. I'm happy to share more details on that too and came out to like all of pretty much everyone at work, all of my customers at work over the past week or so too. So it's felt really, really, I guess. Obviously there's a weight lifted, and that's expected. Everyone says like, oh, there's this weight lifted, but even more than that, there's like this level of weight lifted that I didn't realize was going to be lifted. So I've always struggled with anxiety. I somehow I'm just like less anxious, I don't know. There's just like parts of me that feel like everything feels more congruent than it was before. It all just sort of makes sense.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, it's kind of like every step in your pride journey, update like, has led to this, like you've been kind of working toward this moment, which was huge and it's so exciting and it's so exciting to get to see. I have so many just like different questions and things I want to talk about swirling around in my head. But because you did mention it, because your face kind of lit up when you did, can you tell the story of coming out to your grandparents?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so my grandparents are actually based in the Fargo Moorhead area so, and I'm based in the Madison area.
Speaker 1:So I wasn't able to. I didn't feel like the right way to do it, especially with my grandpa's in his 80s, my grandma's in her late 70s. I didn't feel like calling them and just telling them without being able to like let them have some time to like sit with it and have dialogue. I didn't feel like that would land well or that it would be the way that I want to come out. And so my mom actually was up visiting them this past weekend and she and I were kind of talking about like what would make sense, and my mom, being a lovely ally that she is, was like well, could I take the burden off of you? And she was like you've penned a beautiful essay. I think it could be a really, really beautiful, meaningful way for them to see your journey from the time you were little, dancing in your grandpa's basement with you know dresses and heels and verses, on up into your grandma's Now, obviously as a married person with a job and a normal life. And I felt like that was a really brilliant idea and so we went with that. She sat down and read the essay with both of them. And I, immediately after she called me and told me that she was about to sit down with my Nana. And five minutes later I got a call from Nana basically being like oh my God, you're the greatest person I know. Why would I get like? You're beautiful, I love you, I can't wait to you know, just lovely, lovely, lovely things. So that was lovely.
Speaker 1:And then my grandpa, who's much more he's amazing and incredible, but is much more introspective and would not be the type to just call me and tell me what an amazing person I am. He actually wrote my mom an email and he's gonna write me a handwritten letter. He says in the email one thing about my grandpa is he writes his emails in all caps. I think it's easier for him to see. And so my grandparents are also divorced.
Speaker 1:My grandpa's remarried. He references his wife in his email that he sent her, but he I'll just read it to you quickly. He says Marilyn, and I want you and Ron to know we love our grandchild very much and will be in 100% support of their transgender journey and answer any questions that are asked and help as grandparents in any way we can. The essay brought back memories of the little person in our family room who always liked to dress up in dresses and shoes. Marilyn had a big toy box for the kids to play with with dresses in them. One day soon, I will write a letter and send it to the new grandchild in Madison, wisconsin. Love you all, dad slash grandpa, which was just so sweet. Not only is he gonna write me a letter to his new grandchild, which is a beautiful sentiment, but he's also apparently well equipped to answer any questions that anyone has, which is amazing.
Speaker 2:That is incredible and so heartwarming and also just really really impressive to hear that from both of them. And, as you can see, listeners can't necessarily see I'm like tearing up, which is only surprising because I definitely openly cried a lot reading the essay that you're talking about.
Speaker 1:Thank you.
Speaker 2:So, since we're on that topic, can you talk a little bit about the trans girls guide? I wanted to know why you decided to share this story in such a public forum. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I would love to. So the trans girls guide was it all just sort of happened? I was talking to a trans friend who I work with, talking about her journey mostly from the standpoint of like we have the same insurance because we work together, so like how is all of this looked for you? And this was a few months to go, actually, before I had come out to really anyone else. So we were just on the topic of like therapy and both she's also married and was previously married before she transitioned, so like similar sort of trajectories in terms of all of the factors at play. And she told me that one thing that really really helped her was journaling ahead of therapy and that there were like a lot of uncovered sort of like memories that came with that.
Speaker 1:And I felt like a total idiot because I was like, wait, yes, how have I dealt with literally every bit of trauma in my life? Up until this point? It has been through like writing in some form. I've not written for fun or like for something other than work for a while, and so I was like, well, yes, this is a great excuse for me to just start journaling, and so what you read the essay itself was really like a collection of me thinking and journaling over the past few months, just about things that, like, I internalized for whatever reason or like sort of suppressed Like. I didn't fully suppress these memories, but they weren't things that I necessarily thought about regularly or reflected on or had reflected on, probably since I was a kid. So, coming back to all of those different like points in my journey as a transgender little girl, yeah, I don't know, being able to reflect on that as an adult gave me a whole new understanding of, like who I was and why it's taken me this long to get to this point. So, yeah, it started with just some journal entries, just for myself and likely for my therapist, and then I realized that it could be something else, and I don't even know, like, what my goals for the blog are or for that essay are. That, I say specifically, was sort of what I used to help, at least with the people that I was close with that I wasn't able to have like a face to face in person conversation. It was the way I was able to sort of come out to them, let them have their own moment to sit with it and then get back to me with their thoughts. It was protective of like me, while also giving a lot of really personal detail into who I am. So I think, moving forward with the blog itself, I want to just continue to use it.
Speaker 1:It seems like it's I didn't expect it to like inspire people in the way that it did. I guess I thought it like I was thinking more selfishly, just that like it was the way that I was going to come out to everyone and people continue to follow along on my journey. But I've had very, very random people reach out about like their children who came out as trans a year ago and how this felt like something that felt amazing for them to reflect on, because they could see someone like me as a grownup being something that, like their child, might eventually be not so different from I don't know. So now, with that in mind, I feel like some pressure to like follow it up with yeah, more things. So I think, as time goes on, I will obviously be continually reflecting on my childhood and like how I've become the girl that I am now and also get to like selfishly revel in some of the girlhood things that I didn't get to reflect on.
Speaker 1:I'm currently writing something right now about, for some reason, desperately wanting to go bra shopping with my mom. I don't need a bra for listeners, objectively don't need a bra right now, some day probably, but not right now. But for some reason I just like had this urge to ask my mom to take me bra shopping. And it's totally from if you remember the Lizzie McGuire episode where Miranda and her want to go bra shopping but because Kate and the other mean girls are like bra shopping, but then Lizzie's mom ends up like taking them bra shopping, which is like not what they had in mind, and I just remember as like a little girl again, this isn't something that I've thought about a ton, but as I've sort of unpacked things, I started to think about more like I had really strong emotions towards Lizzie in a not so positive way of like you little bitch, be nice to your mom. Like I would kill for my mom to take me bra shopping, be grateful.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:And so I think it's through things like I don't know, yes, sort of like getting to revel in some of that of like understanding the little girl that I always have been, that I've sort of denied for a long time. So getting to like reintroduce myself to myself has been cool. And then, on top of that, being able to inform and enlighten people as well to like transness is a very real thing and like has been with us all for a really long time. There's obviously some not so great narratives happening right now about like. Being trans is like a trend or something that people are groomed into, and that's just like objectively not true, as you can see from my story. So I think it's a mix of all of that and also I have very little expectations for it. I think it's just it will be what it will be and again, selfishly, it's for me and anyone else who wants to join me on the journey. They're welcome, but if not, I'll see you on the other side with much greater tips.
Speaker 2:So Hell, yeah, Well, and, like you said, like it is for you, Like it exists as an outlet for you and like everyone else is like what they take away from it, their inspiration from it is. You know that's secondary, that's a side effect, and that's very much how I feel about this podcast too. You know it's much more about having people like you being able to like, share their story. Whether or not people like, listen or like it is very much like my second priority. It just helps also that your essay is is gorgeously written, so of course, people are inspired by it. Thank you, Something that you just said as you were talking about, Lizzie McGuire kind of brought up a idea or question, I guess, about you know we are existing in this really fun time where like girlhood is so like front and center, like in media.
Speaker 2:You know there's been so much talk about this being like this summer's for the girls. You know we have the Barbie movie, we have the heiress too, where we have like femininity is being embraced in a way that I think it hasn't been in a really, really long time. Yes, Can you talk about like? Has that played into your experience of recently like coming out as trans and like fully embracing that in yourself.
Speaker 1:Yes, I think there have been just like several points. Yes, girlhood has just been like in everyone's face in the best way. I think you put it very, very well. So, yes, I think it sort of felt like. It's just sort of felt like it's meant to be, like there have just been several things that have been thrown in my face as like, yeah, you're a girl and you can't deny that anymore. The Barbie movie is a great example of like we went opening night in our pink. You're very excited, and I remember just being like absolutely wrecked afterwards because it was like it was incredible and beautiful and amazing. But I just remember like wanting to call my mom and tell her that like I'm a girl and like I felt represented in the girlhood that was presented in the Barbie movie, which I know my mom and I are getting together this weekend for her birthday and I think we're going to see the Barbie movies together, which feels like right. That feels like it needs to happen.
Speaker 2:And I mean, I think another good example of this is I know you just had pictures on Instagram of being at a bachelorette party and like, can you talk about that experience? And like getting to wear your gorgeous dress and, like you know, be a part of like, one of the most like symbolic Occasions of like, of girlhood and of femininity.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I'm happy you brought that up because, yes, so I've been in like lots of weddings, honestly, and I've always worn a tux right, like that's always been the thing, even when I was out as Mount binary and even at my own wedding I was in a tux. But I am very blessed to have an amazing friend, riley Anderson, also former cober. So we there's a trend here. Cobers are cool.
Speaker 1:She sat me down when she was having her wedding or when she was like starting to plan her wedding. I was obviously out as non-binary at the time and she basically was, like I want to make sure that I'm hiring, like trans and non-binary, proficient makeup artists and like hair stylists. I also want to make sure that you know that, like you don't have to wear a suit and if wearing a dress feels right, then obviously I want that. Which felt really really special and obviously it's not my day, it's not about me, but the fact that she took the time to, you know, have a one-on-one conversation to make sure I was able to like show up in the most comfortable and authentic way felt really meaningful. So this entire like wedding planning experience of like being in her wedding party has felt special for that reason. But yes, we were recently in Chicago for her bachelorette party and it was again.
Speaker 1:I've attended several bachelorette parties, mostly as right, like the gay best friend, which is, you know, fine, but it's never felt Real or true and I've always sort of like wanted to be able to take that extra step. It's like when you were in like middle school when all the girls were having like a slumber party and all the boys were having a slumber party and I like always secretly it was like God, why am I at this boy slumber party? Like I don't want to be playing Xbox and drinking monster, I want to be like talking about the boys playing Xbox and drinking monster and you know, doing all of like the stereotypical Lizzie McGuire things that girls, or that I thought girls did at slumber parties.
Speaker 2:I want to have pillow fights in our matching pajamas.
Speaker 1:Exactly, and so this bachelorette party very much was that like we had. There was a mix of and I was able to help plan some of it, so that was nice too. I got to like selfishly, you know sprinkle in some things that I've always wanted to like do as a girl, and so, yeah, we had the matching pajamas and like played games and gossiped and then also Went out and looked incredible. It was y2k themed, so it was like very Lizzie McGuire coated as well, and I Got to like wear this dress. It's green and it's gorgeous and, yeah, there's a picture of it like in my instagram post accompanying my most recent essay and it's just like. It felt like for the first time I was like fully in my body, as myself. I felt gorgeous and Not dysphoric and it was incredible. Yeah, I felt like I got to like live out my fantasy as the girl that I like have always felt like I was.
Speaker 2:Well and in again such another like perfectly full circle way where, like it is y2k themed, so you got to like Be the cool girls in Lizzie McGuire, like that era that you were growing up in and like seeing that kind, like that brand of girlhood and now getting to do it At this like pivotal time in your life is so just like poignant and perfect. Yeah, so you mentioned you know that was probably the first time that you felt like really, really euphoric. When do you feel the most like All and complete and yourself, yeah, in your gender expression.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a great question. I feel most euphoric. I think there's like the multiple areas in which, like I feel complete gender euphoria. One is I'm not gonna lie and this maybe sounds shallow, but like I love feeling absolutely stunning so, like Anytime I can, and that's like a running theme in that, like the essay that we've been referring to right, where, like, I have always been obsessed with like staring at myself in the mirror and like thinking about like how beautiful I could be as a woman and how that would just feel so much more like me. So getting to like put on a slinky dress and the highest of high heels and a full face of makeup does feel incredible for me.
Speaker 1:Obviously, being a woman goes Far beyond that, and so I also feel gender euphoria and like several other ways that aren't as physical.
Speaker 1:So most recent example is Because I told all of my customers at work that I was trans and something as simple as like Someone was referring to me and just said she, and it was like the first time that in a 200 person zoom meeting on a work call that like they were talking about me.
Speaker 1:When they said she, it just like it made me like sit differently, it made me Feel completely, yeah, just like at ease. So it's through like affirmative language as well. But yeah, I mean I'm not gonna lie, I love feeling gorgeous and I think that does like make me feel Feminine. Yeah, I've always like had an affinity for like old Hollywood glamour and, yes, like the Judy Garland's of the world and the Ann Margaret's of the world and Mary Tyler Moore as well, from like a more like Working woman but still Woman. So, yeah, I think getting to like see my adult self Live out, who I kind of always saw myself represented as as a little girl has felt really cool and you know, I In college had the privilege of witnessing a performance of Beverly pills.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Could you talk about, like, your experiences Doing drag and how that served as an outlet for you, as kind of you know, like a stepping stone to where you are today?
Speaker 1:For sure so yes, I in college very briefly had a drag stint as Beverly pills, who was like this middle-aged. I had like a whole character concept for like all of the three performances that I did across three years. Beverly pills is this like middle-aged housewife, like probably from like Beverly Hills or you know the Upper East Side, and she was sort of like a housewife you can think of like Valley of the Dolls, which also obviously heavily pills, then like that adds to the play on words, and so she was just this character of like all of the for some reason middle-aged women that I've always been drawn to, who are like powerful and confident and open about just like their sexuality and their sensuality, while also being like completely independent and not afraid to like objectify men. So I think the drag character was sort of based on all of that. The performances didn't necessarily mirror that. I think I performed to whatever like pop, hip hop sort of like, and I loved it.
Speaker 1:I. That felt really really great for me, but it felt really. It also felt really safe. It felt like this is a character. People know that it's a character and I think in choosing a sort of like middle-aged persona, caricature of womanhood, it was still like people could see or I thought that people could see that like that's not me, I'm a boy and this is a character, so it was like a safe way to play with gender before I was ready to like be honest with myself, or maybe even before I fully realized that like this was something I was ever going to be open about.
Speaker 2:Absolutely so. Something that we've kind of touched on a couple of times is you know your relationship with Colin, your husband. Can you talk more about the experience of coming out to him which again in your essay it made me like weepy and the way that your relationship has shifted, and maybe not shifted, since you've kind of stepped into this new iteration of yourself?
Speaker 1:So coming out to Colin was obviously really really nerve-wracking. It was the reason why I didn't come out, like months prior, when I had fully come to the realization that, like, I need to do this. I had to work up a lot of courage because I knew that there was a very real and valid chance, honestly, that he could say, yo, this isn't what I signed up for. We got married and I was under a different impression of, like, what the circumstances are and you, like you changed that, so I don't necessarily have to be on board with that, and he absolutely wouldn't have had to. And I knew that. And because I knew that, I had a really tough time working up the courage to actually share that with him. I also knew that, like I know my partner and I know our relationship and I know it goes far beyond like gender. So I had a hope, like in the bottom of my heart that like it all would be okay and work itself out. But again, it was something that I really really really struggled with figuring out how to do it and it all sort of just happened organically, because we are a very communicative couple. We talk about everything, probably more than he would like to. I'm all about like let's communicate this until the horse has been beaten to death for sure.
Speaker 1:And it was actually the same day that I came out to Natalie. I came home and he was. He could obviously tell that something was off with me. Oh, he might kill me for saying this, but actually now I'm remembering I think he wanted to like hook up Like he wanted to, and he could tell I wasn't in the mood and so I was like he then could, I think, tell pretty quickly that like there was something actually wrong and I wear my emotions on my face and I, yeah, I just emote, so it's hard for me to mask things, no pun intended. So he knew there was something wrong. He basically was like you know what's going on. I told him that I was fine, that Natalie and I talked and I was a little bit shaken up because I wanted to go back to therapy. There were some things that I wanted to work through, which came as a surprise to him because, like, aside from the transness of it all, my mental health has never been better. I'm in a very, very stable spot. Our relationships, in a really good spot, were both very, very happy. Yeah, just like life in general is good. So he was pretty surprised to hear that and, again, because we have a pretty open dialogue about things, I think he was caught off guard that he didn't know that I was toying with going back to therapy and so he, fairly, was like well, can we talk about that? Like are you, is there anything I can do to support you? And that's just when the water work started.
Speaker 1:I ended up just like completely breaking down. We were I'm looking at the kitchen floor because that's like the scene of the crime. That's where we were laying, essentially, and I just was sobbing. He held me. We didn't really say anything because I didn't know. I still didn't know what to say.
Speaker 1:I didn't, I hadn't planned to tell him and I eventually, you know, told him that through a lot of stammering and not being able to get my words out, well, that I was trans and that there wasn't any way that I could like live any longer. Denying that, because I am so happy in all other facets of my life, like this, feels like a really silly reason to not be happy when I'm ultimately like at peace with my gender and I just want the rest of the world to be at peace with it too. And I did tell him that. You know I completely understand if, like this is something that you don't know that you can be on board for, I don't expect you to have an answer today for me and obviously, like we'll work through whatever ends up happening. This isn't like this is something that I ultimately have to do and I understand that there are potentially consequences to our relationship.
Speaker 1:And he just responded in the most beautiful way. He essentially told me that he I say it better in my essay, I'm better at my written word than my spoken word, so read the essay but he essentially told me that he doesn't have all of the answers right now. I don't have all of the answers right now, but he wants to take this journey with me and that, of course, he loves me no matter what. And like gender isn't really a factor in that. He said something really really beautiful and again I captured it better in the essay, but it was basically that, like he sees how I am when I wear a dress, he sees how I am in those like gender euphoria moments. He sees the difference in me. He sees the way that, like my eyes light up, or the way that I walk or the way that my I still get goosebumps telling this story, just that, like he clearly sees me all the way through.
Speaker 1:And so he more or less was like I'm not shocked, I see you, and I knew that this could be something that we were talking about, and so it turned into a really beautiful, lovely afternoon of just crying together and feeling like I was at peace because I knew everyone else more or less like they would be on board. The people that wouldn't be on board I probably don't have a relationship with at this point in my life Because, again, I've been out as non-binary and like just as a pretty openly queer in your face person for so long that I knew that if anything was going to be impacted it was gonna be our relationship, and so that really set everything else off, for it was just a domino effect from there of like okay, this is done, now I want everyone else to know so I don't have to keep living in this like in between limbo.
Speaker 2:So obviously you know Cullen has been a huge one friends like Natalie and Riley. Where else have you found like support and comfort throughout this journey, whether it's people, whether it's resources, media, like what has helped you get to where you are now?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I mean, I think we're well. Transness is like a hot political topic. I think outside of that space there's so much trans representation right now and it's, I mean, obviously like I think the first one that comes to mind is like Dylan Mulvaney, who, you know, hosted 365 days of like being a girl and I think that really was like oh, this again. Another thing that felt like oh, this is yet I feel represented in this, absolutely. So, yeah, I think through like just more trans celebrities and like being able to see myself represented in the media more openly, in positive ways or in ways that don't feel like they are trans tragedies, which is, I think, what we had like even five years ago. And I think most trans media was sort of like trauma porn, where it was like you know, the trans girl is murdered or lives a horrible life or like is an addict, and of course, those are like factors and trans people are murdered at much higher proportions than any other community. But I think getting to see characters outside of that and in more of just like a day to day being trans has really helped me come into myself, or be okay with coming into myself, I think, obviously coming out to my parents.
Speaker 1:My dad and I have had a really like touching go relationship for several years for lots of different reasons, and I think through again writing journal entries for myself that will likely turn into other essays that I may or may not share I think I've unpacked a lot of things that I didn't realize I was internalizing about him and our relationship for so long. Again, I had a really, really beautiful chat last weekend and so that felt really great to, yeah, sort of just be able to start fresh as authentically myself with all of the people that I love. So, yeah, I think, being able to like come out to everyone, have such warm responses from so many people, seeing myself represented in the media, yeah, those all feel like I don't know things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, do you have a message or a piece of advice you would give to listeners who maybe are feeling stuck in that limbo that you explained that you were in before? Yeah, yeah, I think.
Speaker 1:I mean, I think I have two potentially conflicting pieces of advice. One is, if you feel like fully ready to take the plunge and just like be open about it, I think do that. Obviously there are circumstances where that can't be the case, but I think for myself at least I looking back six months ago I wish I would have just come out sooner. I really do. I think that it all could have and would have been the same and I would have just been happier for longer. At the same time, I think you have to give yourself some grace.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of just internalized trauma for anyone in the queer community, but especially for trans people from a very, very young age, of being like forced into a box that they don't fit into, and there's a lot to unpack there. There's a lot that I'm still unpacking there, for sure, and that's why I go to therapy kids. I am doing that and will continue to do that and put in the work there because I want to be the best woman that I can be. You have to give yourself some grace because there's a lot there. Your body and your mind have been through a lot for whatever extent of your life you haven't been able to be open with yourself or with the greater world, and so come out when you can, but also know that it's okay if now doesn't feel like the right time. Does that make sense?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that makes perfect sense and I think, yeah, they seem at odds with each other, but it is complicated in that way. It's not just as simple as like oh, come on, come on wherever you are, you know.
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 2:So I have a couple of like closing questions that I ask everyone, but before I get to those, is there anything about your story or yourself that you haven't had a chance to share yet that you'd like to? I don't think so. Okay, we've covered a lot. We've also been talking for 48 minutes, which is a record for one of these.
Speaker 2:So for part one of my like closing question, we talk a lot about. You know pride as this concept. You know it's a celebration every year, it's the name of this podcast, it's a word that we use a lot in our community, but also all of us have a very different definition of. So can you just share what pride that word means to you? Yeah, wait.
Speaker 1:Before I do, can I ask you a question?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Is that okay? Yeah, okay. What does pride mean to you? I'm like I don't know. I just like I love that question.
Speaker 2:Oh God, I don't think I've ever considered it and I've asked so many people this question, so it's also hard to like think of a definition.
Speaker 2:That's like not just regurgitating what other people are doing to me and I think I will say, like, pride for me is very interesting because I exist in kind of like a like half out kind of way where, like, I identify as like queer or bisexual, something like that, and like the people like my husband knows, my friends know I like talk about it pretty openly with like coworkers and stuff. So for me, pride isn't this like super exuberant out there thing, it's more of just like an internal sense of like comfort and wholeness, I would say. And just like I mean, yeah, we talk about like gender euphoria and I think that there's a version of that for sexuality to really existing in the way that feels true to yourself.
Speaker 2:I would say, that's my definition of pride is existing in the way that feels true to yourself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think you're hitting on something, and that's sort of similar to where my head went to, I think. For me, pride is like feeling completely at home in your body. So I've always sort of struggled with pride like massive pride events, because I have anxiety, and so it's like, I think, for two reasons. One, it's just like an anxiety inducing thing. There's a lot of pressure that's put on like pride weekend or whatever pride celebration you may or may not be attending, and so I think that gives me anxiety.
Speaker 1:But then, on top of that, I think we put a lot of emphasis on specific like days or events or weekends that are meant to celebrate like pride, the nebulous idea that is pride and that's great. But in my experience I've never come away from a pride event or pride weekend and felt like that was the most fulfilling or like in my body I've ever felt, and so, yeah, for me pride is like being completely in my own body, and I've actually moved away from attending like major pride events for the most part and instead focusing on things that, like, make me feel most proud of like who I am, of the life that I've built with my partner, who is also queer, and that's felt really, really meaningful as I've come into adulthood. Yeah, to be able to like celebrate pride, but do it in a way that actually feels prideful for me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that definition. I think you touched on something that like could be an entire like hour long conversation in itself about like pride celebrations and the pros and cons, because, like, they are very anxiety inducing. I mean, kind of, like you, everything's anxiety inducing for me because I have a great anxiety, but there is a pressure that comes along with it, whether it's coming from an external source or just internally, of like, oh, is this space for me? If I am not like presenting, like out as a member of the LGBTQ plus community and like, oh, I have to like make it very clear like I'm attending as an ally, I promise I'm not like taking up space in this queer space, but also, like I am queer, like this, I am now taking this and making it about me, which I don't like to do, but it's a kind of a no, it's very real.
Speaker 1:It is like it just. Yeah, I think universally we have a lot of expectation on pride and there's like weird, yeah, unwritten rules of like are you queer enough or not, or what does that look like? And also pride has sort of been co-opted by, like you know, corporate America, and so that also doesn't necessarily feel authentically what we were marching for or what you know Marsha P Johnson was marching for years and years and years ago. Yeah, I think that it really is. Yeah, pride is like something within yourself and you should do things to make yourself feel that pride whenever you can, not just on a specific day or at a specific event or on a specific month.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and like attending a pride celebration with thousands of other people can be one like really beautiful and fulfilling way of like expressing that. But it's not the only way and for a lot of us it's not the best way. So thank you for going on that little tangent with me.
Speaker 1:No, I love it.
Speaker 2:But, if you like, keep that definition in mind. What are you proud of?
Speaker 1:I'm proud of, I think, my willingness to be open about this journey that I'm still very much in like the early stages of, from an actual like transition standpoint, right, feeling the fact that I am feeling so good in like my mind, body and soul that I'm feeling completely comfortable and ready and excited to get to share the rest of this journey with whoever wants to hear about it or read about it or whatever.
Speaker 1:I think that's really cool and I have put in a lot of work on myself and, yeah, just my overall sense of self to be able to get to a point where I can do that. So I'm proud of that. I also think, as a trans person or as queer people in general, we all just sort of have a knack for like being pretty self aware, I think, because we're constantly or have always had to constantly sort of police ourselves to make sure we're showing up or presenting in a way that's deemed appropriate by whatever environment we're in. We have this like innate ability to be fully and wholly self aware, and so I think the other thing I'm very proud of is just my overall self awareness. I've turned something that maybe wasn't such a great thing of like having to police myself into something that feels like a strong quality that I like about myself a lot. So, yeah, I'm proud of both of those things and I'm proud of how I look in that green dress that I wore as well.
Speaker 2:So, that is so much to be proud of and, like I, am very proud of you for sharing your story as publicly and as beautifully as you are, and grateful that you've accepted this as one of the outlets where you are doing so.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thank you so much. Thanks for having me. This has been so lovely. I love catching up with you, Katie Beatty.
Speaker 2:Thank you for listening to Pride Stories, the podcast. I'm your host, katie Beatty, and it's been an honor to bring this story to your ears. Pride Stories is proudly presented by Tell Well Story Co and Studio. We have an incredible team that makes this podcast possible, including executive producer Max Kringen, contributing producers Andrew Parsons, duncan Williamson and Annie Wood, with additional support by Emma Maddock, matt Priggy, rosie Mortensen and the entire team at Tell Well. If you've been inspired, moved or entertained by anything you've heard in this episode, please consider supporting our mission, subscribe to the podcast, leave a five-star review or simply share it with a friend or family member. Your support keeps the stories alive and resonating, and if you feel compelled to share your own Pride story, we'd be honored to listen. Please visit the link in the description of this episode to get in touch. No matter where you are in your journey, whether you're out and proud or just finding your voice, remember you have a story to tell and it deserves to be heard. Music.